Markovic, Williams and Lake in the backline for 2011, can it work ?

[LostDoggy]

Markovic in the absence of Lake has shown us why we picked him up , strong mark, good kick off both feet, able to cleanly get the ball off the ground. Williams keeps improving and had a very solid game against the Lion's , missed a few marks but overall got the job done. Lake is an All Australian and vying with Scarlett for the best modern Fullback, is now coming back from injury and needs some game time.

Is it possible for us to remodel our defence/ rebound game with Lake at FB with Williams and Markovic both playing as CHB's , Morris as the lockdown/ blocker , Murphy as the runner with the other runner still to be decided , Hill, Sherman and Stack have shown they could take the other runner position, to me Stack is ok off the bench

So it could look like this

FB: ..................Lake
BP:.......Hill.....................Morris
Runner: .........Murphy
CHB: Williams..................Markovic

This does give us some real size and strength in the backline , to give us an extra runner on the rebound Griffin could drop back to the 40m to 50m area to receive the kickin or support the receiver , having Markovic as the kickin target is also an option he could mark or tap down to Murphy or a support player .

The rotations are also smoother as when Lake has a rest, Markovic goes to FB, Williams to CHB, less opportunity for the opposition to exploit a lack of height on the rotations. This formation does put a lot of pressure on the incumbent players Hargrave and Gilbee as Murphy and the likes of Hill and Sherman are better suited as a runner . Sticky ( Hill ) is a great player on the flank, safe hands , solid overhead mark, can crumb/ create goals but gives us a nice balance in the BP, happy to pencil him in. Stack is improving but would prefer him on the bench, Sherman in his first game showed he could take the game on and provide some run and carry but we need to see more before we pencil him in, could replace Stack on the bench.

Well thats me done , over to you

.

[LostDoggy]

Markovic in the absence of Lake has shown us why we picked him up , strong mark, good kick off both feet, able to cleanly get the ball off the ground. Williams keeps improving and had a very solid game against the Lion's , missed a few marks but overall got the job done. Lake is an All Australian and vying with Scarlett for the best modern Fullback, is now coming back from injury and needs some game time.

Is it possible for us to remodel our defence/ rebound game with Lake at FB with Williams and Markovic both playing as CHB's , Morris as the lockdown/ blocker , Murphy as the runner with the other runner still to be decided , Hill, Sherman and Stack have shown they could take the other runner position, to me Stack is ok off the bench

So it could look like this

FB: ..................Lake
BP:.......Hill.....................Morris
Runner: .........Murphy
CHB: Williams..................Markovic

This does give us some real size and strength in the backline , to give us an extra runner on the rebound Griffin could drop back to the 40m to 50m area to receive the kickin or support the receiver , having Markovic as the kickin target is also an option he could mark or tap down to Murphy or a support player .

The rotations are also smoother as when Lake has a rest, Markovic goes to FB, Williams to CHB, less opportunity for the opposition to exploit a lack of height on the rotations. This formation does put a lot of pressure on the incumbent players Hargrave and Gilbee as Murphy and the likes of Hill and Sherman are better suited as a runner . Sticky ( Hill ) is a great player on the flank, safe hands , solid overhead mark, can crumb/ create goals but gives us a nice balance in the BP, happy to pencil him in. Stack is improving but would prefer him on the bench, Sherman in his first game showed he could take the game on and provide some run and carry but we need to see more before we pencil him in, could replace Stack on the bench.

Well thats me done , over to you

.

Would like to see it trialled perhaps. Couldn't see why not. Good post.

[dogman]

Why can't we try Lake up forward now that Markovic is doing OK in defence. I would bring in Lake for Jones this week and ease him in. Having 2 strong making forwards will make us less predictable. I think if we are serious about winning a premiership this year and want to improve on last year we need to try this.

In previous years, it was never an option with no real replacement down back. Markovic is no worse of then any of the Collingwood and St Kilda fullbacks.

Worst case during a game if the defence is struggling then through him back.

If we are going to compete with collingwood this year we will need Lake up forward or Jones to really step up and improve out of sight. I have more confidence in Markovic down back and Lake up forward then Jones improving this much.

[Bulldog Joe]

Why can't we try Lake up forward now that Markovic is doing OK in defence. I would bring in Lake for Jones this week and ease him in. Having 2 strong making forwards will make us less predictable. I think if we are serious about winning a premiership this year and want to improve on last year we need to try this.

In previous years, it was never an option with no real replacement down back. Markovic is no worse of then any of the Collingwood and St Kilda fullbacks.

Worst case during a game if the defence is struggling then through him back.

If we are going to compete with collingwood this year we will need Lake up forward or Jones to really step up and improve out of sight. I have more confidence in Markovic down back and Lake up forward then Jones improving this much.

Lake offers more as a swingman and is probably more dangerous when he sneaks forward. Has never shown as much when he is a lead up player.

Think he will kick more goals when the opposition can't plan their defence to stop him.

[Maddog37]

Brian Lake could be the best half back flanker in the league playing the Corey enright type role.

[dogman]

Lake offers more as a swingman and is probably more dangerous when he sneaks forward. Has never shown as much when he is a lead up player.

Think he will kick more goals when the opposition can't plan their defence to stop him.

How do you know he offers more as a swingman when he hasn't been tried as a permanent forward? The more the opposition plan to stop him the more oportunities Hall and Co. will get. At the moment all the opposition need to do is, plan is to stop Hall. To me we need to become less predictable and become more dangerous up forward.

Look at Hawthorn, they are struggling for a big strong key defender but they still prefer to keep Roughead forward. To them it's more important to be more dangerous forward then stable down back.

[dogman]

Brian Lake could be the best half back flanker in the league playing the Corey enright type role.

Why can't Murphy continue to play this roll, he has been really good so far.

[Maddog37]

Why can't Murphy continue to play this roll, he has been really good so far.

Why cant they both play it? Scary thought for opposition teams.....

Also on Markovic, interesting to see Hurley was named as Dons best in the Sun today.
Makes markos effort last week look even better.

[Mantis]

Brian Lake could be the best half back flanker in the league playing the Corey enright type role.

I would think that a better comparison would be Sam Fisher or Nick Maxwell.

[Maddog37]

Or even Scarlett or Fletcher.

As long as he does not have the oppositions better player on him and he can zone off as often as he wants.

[Mantis]

As long as he does not have the oppositions better player on him and he can zone off as often as he wants.

He does anyway.

Even when he plays on Franklin he still backs his judgement.

[the banker]

Definitely worth a try. Markovic's development could be extremely important. If Markovic and Williams can take the key forwards that let's Morris take # 3 and leaves Lake in an attacking "quaterback" role - Picken on the crumbing forward and Murphy and Gilbee/Stack/Wood/Hill as the attacking half backs. Lots of options for differering opposition forward structures. Also releases Lake for the swing role.

I think a key to beating the forward press (our biggest challenge IMHO) is to keep the ball moving in the back half. Don't let the opposition create stoppages, where they can build the structure that locks the ball in their forward 50.

[Mofra]

We would need to ensure it doesn't rob us of run out of the backline. Williams provided plenty of rebound (esp. for a big guy) on Sunday which is the only way it could really work - Morris is no rebounder and plays safe, whilst Markovic delivers the ball cleanly but wouldn't qualify as a rebounder either.

When Wood is back would we persist with this model? He's athletic enough to play taller than his height and does run the ball when he gets it.
Markovic has been good for two games but will surely be sacrificed at some stage with a fit Lake, Wood, Gilbee and Shaggy to push for selection in the second half of the season.

[Cyberdoggie]

Mofra put it well, basically we need runners out of defence, it was our achilles heel last year and it's going to hurt us again this year with Wood and Gilbee already out of action.
We drafted well to cover this in the years to come but at the moment we really only have Murhpy who is adept in that position. Stack in my opinion isn't up to it.

I mention this because the backline isn't all big blokes these days. You can't play all of markovic, Williams, lake and Morris there, at least 2 of them offer nothing when we have the ball. Hargrave will also look to come back before too long, so Markovic's career could be a short one.

When it come to playing Lake up forward, i fear that with the forward press and the way we are using our 3 tall forwards at the moment (Hall, Grant, Jones), Lake wouldn't really fit in. I personally hate to see tall forwards sitting on the 50 meters waiting for others to get the ball so that they start moving towards to the goal to get the ball over the top.
This isn't natural for guys like Barry Hall who leads so well from the goal square coming out to meet the ball. If this is the way our forward line will function for the majority of the year then Lake would also not be usefull up there, other than when the opposition is flooding back and we have to resort to a long bomb.

[Flamethrower]

Our backline has been undersized for years with Dale Morris and Ryan Hargrave forever having to play on much larger opponents, something that good oppostion teams have always taken advantage of especially in September.

Lukas Markovic has shown enough this year to suggest that we may finally have the cattle down back to stop teams from exploiting this. It also allows Dale to shut out the smaller goal sneaks who usually thrive against us - Todd Banfield was a non-factor on Sunday after starring for the Lions the week before.

Having Lukas at full back also allows Rocket to use Brian Lake in a number of roles.
1, As a floating defender a la Dustin Fletcher or Nick Maxwell,
2, As an outlet across half back when teams like Collingwood have the forward press on - Lake is such a good contested mark that he becomes invaluable as a target when the ball is stuck in our backline,
3, As a 2nd tall target across half forward with Jarrad Grant or Jordan Roughead (also important with the forward press that teams use now), or
4, In a forward pocket next to Bazza.

[Dazza]

Wouldn't mind experimenting with this. Lake has great burst speed which could be used up forward to create pressure. He's also an excellent mark. If sides are starting to get on top of us we could play Lake as a loose man in defence.

Only worry is Markovics pace and lack of rebound if we play Lake back.

[Ghost Dog]

Our backline has been undersized for years with Dale Morris and Ryan Hargrave forever having to play on much larger opponents, something that good oppostion teams have always taken advantage of especially in September.

Lukas Markovic has shown enough this year to suggest that we may finally have the cattle down back to stop teams from exploiting this. It also allows Dale to shut out the smaller goal sneaks who usually thrive against us - Todd Banfield was a non-factor on Sunday after starring for the Lions the week before.

Having Lukas at full back also allows Rocket to use Brian Lake in a number of roles.
1, As a floating defender a la Dustin Fletcher or Nick Maxwell,
2, As an outlet across half back when teams like Collingwood have the forward press on - Lake is such a good contested mark that he becomes invaluable as a target when the ball is stuck in our backline,
3, As a 2nd tall target across half forward with Jarrad Grant or Jordan Roughead (also important with the forward press that teams use now), or
4, In a forward pocket next to Bazza.

We all saw the beating Lake and Williams took last year. Lukas is going to be an important option for us, but we need another tall to be switchable down back IMO. Tom is injury prone and Brian carries a huge load, pushed himself to the maximum last season. We need one other player who can fly with a fist , if not hold the Ryders, Reiwoldts, Franklins other than Brian. Lukas will come along and just needs as many games as he can get.

[comrade]

I'm not against the idea, but what happens if Markovic gets toweled up and Brian has to take over? Does Markovic go forward or does he play as the loose man across defence?

I haven't seen him perform either role so he could be wasted when a runner could have added more value to our system.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm not against the idea, but what happens if Markovic gets toweled up and Brian has to take over? Does Markovic go forward or does he play as the loose man across defence?

I haven't seen him perform either role so he could be wasted when a runner could have added more value to our system.

If he was getting smashed he could be subbed out.

[comrade]

If he was getting smashed he could be subbed out.

Good point.

[EasternWest]

If he was getting smashed he could be subbed out.


Good point.

Unless the sub had been used already :eek:.

[LostDoggy]

Would like to see our back 6 include all three players. Would make a change from a couple of years ago when all the commentators would say we were too short down back to be a threat.

[bold-dogg]

Would like to see our back 6 include all three players. Would make a change from a couple of years ago when all the commentators would say we were too short down back to be a threat.

A couple of years ago Williams was never on the park and we were playing 190cm CHB's.
Lake, Williams, Morris and Shaggy is not a short backline. We're blessed with a Shaggy 190cm running defender - hope he comes back fit and healthy. Looks like Marcovic is good insurance. We'll probably need him at some stage, so I'm glad he's got some talent.

[1eyedog]

Mofra put it well, basically we need runners out of defence, it was our achilles heel last year and it's going to hurt us again this year with Wood and Gilbee already out of action.
We drafted well to cover this in the years to come but at the moment we really only have Murhpy who is adept in that position. Stack in my opinion isn't up to it.

I mention this because the backline isn't all big blokes these days. You can't play all of markovic, Williams, lake and Morris there, at least 2 of them offer nothing when we have the ball. Hargrave will also look to come back before too long, so Markovic's career could be a short one.When it come to playing Lake up forward, i fear that with the forward press and the way we are using our 3 tall forwards at the moment (Hall, Grant, Jones), Lake wouldn't really fit in. I personally hate to see tall forwards sitting on the 50 meters waiting for others to get the ball so that they start moving towards to the goal to get the ball over the top.
This isn't natural for guys like Barry Hall who leads so well from the goal square coming out to meet the ball. If this is the way our forward line will function for the majority of the year then Lake would also not be usefull up there, other than when the opposition is flooding back and we have to resort to a long bomb.



Morris can play small. What if we play Collingwood in the Grand Final and the Pies play Dawes, Cloke and Brown down there, remember Mitch getting thrown around by Brown? or Essendon play Ryder, Hurley and Hille with Bellchambers in the ruck, they threatened to do this on Sunday. That 3rd tall worries me and Morris punches above his weight no doubt but he shouldn't be playing on 194cm+ forwards.

[stefoid]

I think morris can play smallish, but he is troubled by the ridiculously agile little ferret groundball forwards. he can beat anyone his size or smaller in the air, but once the ball hits the deck, he can be found out by the ferrets.

[1eyedog]

I think morris can play smallish, but he is troubled by the ridiculously agile little ferret groundball forwards. he can beat anyone his size or smaller in the air, but once the ball hits the deck, he can be found out by the ferrets.

Has played Milne well. Was probably going to play on him in the 2008? finals series but had to go to Riewoldt as Williams was down.

[LostDoggy]

Well, the use of Lake, Williams and Markovic at the back worked well today. Good to see Williams take the kick in several times. Markovic is vulnerable at times to the ball kicked over his head where he has to stop and turn and chase but is very good otherwise, keeps his feet in the contest. Lake being used as the swing player is something I,d like to see more of.

The different posts on the pro's and con's made good reading but for mine the Club should continue with this, we have seen today the benefits.

What we have to keep in mind is the current benchmark Collingwood and our matchup's , Williams gets Cloke, Markovic gets Dawes and Lake gets Brown. Malthouse will want to get some height in the forward 50 so Jolly goes forward with some smalls for assistance, Cloke will move up the ground to the top right of the fifty, Dawes will move to the top of the fifty, Brown will move to the midfield. If Lake stays back and Roughead or Hudson stays with Jolly, then Collingwood will try to choke the ball in the forward 50 using quick ball movement . Already Collingwood has to try and force one or two goals in bursts using their midfield playerss like Swan, Beams and Didak.

If Lake can shut down Brown everytime he moves forward , Williams can work Cloke over and Markovic blanket Dawes , Collingwood will need Jolly to spend a lot of time forward and will be relying on their "forward press" and zones to create the goals or force turnovers. Having the luxury of Lake staying back as a roving fullback will assist us when we rebound , I,m sure Brian would enjoy the role

.

[Rance Fan]

I think Collingwoods big men never seem to bother us much, always the little guys.
Davis, Medhurst, Didak etc have had days out when theyve played us.
Now with more of their midfield / smalls seeming to have stepped up a level. This is where i reckon we need to stop them.
Krakour, Wellingham, Didak, Beams, Blair Pendlebury Swan,Thomas etc
Oh and that easy defensive rebound they get from guys like Maxwell, Shaw, O'Brien

[Mofra]

What we have to keep in mind is the current benchmark Collingwood and our matchup's , Williams gets Cloke, Markovic gets Dawes and Lake gets Brown. Malthouse will want to get some height in the forward 50 so Jolly goes forward with some smalls for assistance, Cloke will move up the ground to the top right of the fifty, Dawes will move to the top of the fifty, Brown will move to the midfield. If Lake stays back and Roughead or Hudson stays with Jolly, then Collingwood will try to choke the ball in the forward 50 using quick ball movement . Already Collingwood has to try and force one or two goals in bursts using their midfield playerss like Swan, Beams and Didak.
I would expect Collingwood would go small in the F50 if we played all three of our talls, and try and outpace us to crumb goals.

I thought Markovic was good today but I don't expect all three talls to play every week - even with Morris playing small there will be some weeks where we will favour pace & rebound over strength in the air.

[comrade]

I would expect Collingwood would go small in the F50 if we played all three of our talls, and try and outpace us to crumb goals.

I thought Markovic was good today but I don't expect all three talls to play every week - even with Morris playing small there will be some weeks where we will favour pace & rebound over strength in the air.

It's a catch 22 because if we don't play Markovic against the Pies, they'll throw Brown forward at every opportunity. I still have nightmares about Mitch Hahn playing the third defensive tall role and getting rag dolled.

If we play the 3 talls (which I'm not against) it gives us an opportunity to swing Lake forward in spurts to try and stretch the Collingwood defence. After watching the game on Friday night, I still think they're defensive group is susceptible to contested marking against the long and deep ball.

[bornadog]

It's a catch 22 because if we don't play Markovic against the Pies, they'll throw Brown forward at every opportunity. I still have nightmares about Mitch Hahn playing the third defensive tall role and getting rag dolled.

If we play the 3 talls (which I'm not against) it gives us an opportunity to swing Lake forward in spurts to try and stretch the Collingwood defence. After watching the game on Friday night, I still think they're defensive group is susceptible to contested marking against the long and deep ball.

I don't really like Lake going foward he rarely makes an impact. In fact he went forward yesterday and didn't do much at all. However, I agree with what you are saying against Collingwood, we have the option to do that ie play him forward just to unbalance them abit.

[Hotdog60]

Could we swing Markovic forward and leave Brian in defense, I don't know how he would go in this position but might be an option.

[Mofra]

Could we swing Markovic forward and leave Brian in defense, I don't know how he would go in this position but might be an option.
Was very good pre-injury by all accounts, however I'd expect he wouldn't have the burst pace to gain the seperation to get too many marks on the league against a smart defender.

[Bulldog4life]

Was very good pre-injury by all accounts, however I'd expect he wouldn't have the burst pace to gain the seperation to get too many marks on the league against a smart defender.

A lot here thought he didn't have the pace to play in our backline.:rolleyes:

[Greystache]

A lot here thought he didn't have the pace to play in our backline.:rolleyes:

He's made considerable progress in this area after 2 preseasons as a fill time footballer, particularly his lateral movement. Last year he was a really good VFL footballer but he was genuinely lumbering.

[LostDoggy]

He's made considerable progress in this area after 2 preseasons as a fill time footballer, particularly his lateral movement. Last year he was a really good VFL footballer but he was genuinely lumbering.

I'd rather Lukas free up Bob to go back into attack. He's been terrific down back he just takes the forward line to another level. Murph in the forward line with a rapidly developing Roughead and a fully fit Higgins gets me all wriggly with anticipation :D

Sensible list management also suggests that Marko needs 40-60 games into him before Lake leaves us :eek: so he needs at least 10-12 this year.

[Mofra]

A lot here thought he didn't have the pace to play in our backline.:rolleyes:
It's alot easier to cut the angles as a backman than to make position as a forward.

Pretty sure Eade mentioned the lack of pace to gain seperation as the reason Skipper wasn't developed as a forward, despite being drafted as one.

[lemmon]

It's alot easier to cut the angles as a backman than to make position as a forward.

Pretty sure Eade mentioned the lack of pace to gain seperation as the reason Skipper wasn't developed as a forward, despite being drafted as one.

The same can and has been said about guys like Leigh Brown, Tippet and Hurley who have been able to have an impact up forward. Of course you'd love your key forwards to be quick on the lead but I think it can be offset through game sense, strong hands and the ability to read the ball. My biggest concern would be an even bigger lack of defensive pressure but there would be no harm in trialling it when the opportunity arises.

[Ghost Dog]

I'd rather Lukas free up Bob to go back into attack. He's been terrific down back he just takes the forward line to another level. Murph in the forward line with a rapidly developing Roughead and a fully fit Higgins gets me all wriggly with anticipation :D

Sensible list management also suggests that Marko needs 40-60 games into him before Lake leaves us :eek: so he needs at least 10-12 this year.

His knee troubles are a distant memory now, but part of that is the success of him working the angles down back and being relatively unmarked. Once you have players working him over in the foward line, the wear and tear of it, having to run more to make position, chances of something amiss increase dramatically.
As a swingman, with brief stints in a pocket, no worries. In my humble O. However, a more gifted player in the half back position is hard to find in AFL.

[Hotdog60]

I thought Markovic is doing ok for the games his played and I think he is learning as he goes. Early in the game I think it was McPhee out position him and took the mark then later in the play he had changed his approach and did his job and spoiled.
Will get done on a fast lead but seems capable at this stage of his career.

[LostDoggy]

I thought Markovic is doing ok for the games his played and I think he is learning as he goes. Early in the game I think it was McPhee out position him and took the mark then later in the play he had changed his approach and did his job and spoiled.
Will get done on a fast lead but seems capable at this stage of his career.

His spoiling and reading of the kicks coming in post qtr time was great. WD to him, thought it was his best game to date.

[LostDoggy]

I thought Markovic is doing ok for the games his played and I think he is learning as he goes. Early in the game I think it was McPhee out position him and took the mark then later in the play he had changed his approach and did his job and spoiled.
Will get done on a fast lead but seems capable at this stage of his career.

The match committee have to applauded for persisting with Lake, Williams and Markovic in the backline, it is a work in progress but it works , the ability to have Williams take the tap work to give the ruckman a chopout , Lake can be swung forward , Markovic gives us a strong marking target on the kickin or a switch of play ,the flexibility is the key , it just needs time to gel

.

[bornadog]

The match committee have to applauded for persisting with Lake, Williams and Markovic in the backline, it is a work in progress but it works , the ability to have Williams take the tap work to give the ruckman a chopout , Lake can be swung forward , Markovic gives us a strong marking target on the kickin or a switch of play ,the flexibility is the key , it just needs time to gel

.

I was impressed with Markovic last night, I thouight he did well except when he allowed his opponent to get away from him on the lead.

[Greystache]

I was impressed with Markovic last night, I thouight he did well except when he allowed his opponent to get away from him on the lead.

With the way he's adjusted to the pace of AFL footy he could be a strong candidate as the 7th defender in the Maxwell style when he doesn't have a suitable match up. He plays that role in the VFL extremely well, he can read the play very well and has reliable disposal on both sides. I had my doubts about his ability to step up the level but what we've seen this year seems to prove that wrong.

[bornadog]

With the way he's adjusted to the pace of AFL footy he could be a strong candidate as the 7th defender in the Maxwell style when he doesn't have a suitable match up. He plays that role in the VFL extremely well, he can read the play very well and has reliable disposal on both sides. I had my doubts about his ability to step up the level but what we've seen this year seems to prove that wrong.

I must admit I didn't think he could step up either but at this stage he is doing well.

[Ghost Dog]

I must admit I didn't think he could step up either but at this stage he is doing well.

Noticed he's carrying the ball around in one hand, just like Lake. bit of swagger about the kid. :D nice

[bornadog]

With Collingwood playing Cloke, Dawes and even Brown in the forward line, we will need all three.

[The Adelaide Connection]

With Collingwood playing Cloke, Dawes and even Brown in the forward line, we will need all three.

Agree. But what if Williams doesn't come up? Morris to play tall?
With Jolly out will Brown be expected to shoulder more ruck responsibilities?

[Ghost Dog]

Marco, Lake, Dale, tom ( if fit ) , Bob. Outstanding backline
Then there is Gillbee....
a bit of a worry.

Some cite Stack for his bad handpass that may have 'cost us the game'
but Lindsay jammed them on the boot more than once, and IMO played a big hand in that turnover, to put us in that position 4Q V freo. All night he seemed to be off target.
His disposal has been pretty worrisome and its teeth grinding stuff, as each time he gets it they seem to bring up his 'elite kicking status' in AFL.:mad: If he has a shocker this week I may just have to visit the dentist...grind grind

[ratsmac]

The way we are going we need any able body in the team. We are dropping like flies. Markovic has certainly been a blessing this year. I think he can actually continue to improve and cement his spot in the team. I like the fact that he doesn't seem to panic. How many times you might see a new player come in the team and you cringe at the thought of a one on one contest on the last line of defence. You don't get that with Markovic. He seems to be in every contest and that's all you can ask. I like that fact that he is not scared to leave his man and carry the ball if he has to. A lot to like about the young man. It seems to be working at the moment, and I think it can only get better from here. Yes it can work.

[BulldogBelle]

Agree. But what if Williams doesn't come up? Morris to play tall?
With Jolly out will Brown be expected to shoulder more ruck responsibilities?



Morris plays well on taller opponents, but even better on smalls

He owned Hayden Ballantyne last week

Fingers crossed that Williams comes up......................

-Williams to play on Cloke - has the speed and the tank to keep up with him
-Markovic on Dawes - has the timing and football smarts to beat him hopefully
-Lake on Brown - hopefully Brown will go looking for cheap kicks up the ground which should suit Lakes ability to read the play, run off his man etc

[always right]

Markovic alongside Libba Mk2 has been the greatest positive so far. Not sure anyone rated him before the season commenced but he has shown how much certain players improve when they are elevated to the seniors and are surrounded by better footballers.

This should be alesson to the MC....don't be afraid to elevate young players even if they haven't set the world on fire in the VFL. You only uncover these gems by taking a punt. Malthouse has built a premiership team using this approach. Look at Blair for example......every part of you says this bloke shouldn't be playing in a premiership team...far too small:rolleyes:

[soupman]

Markovic alongside Libba Mk2 has been the greatest positive so far. Not sure anyone rated him before the season commenced but he has shown how much certain players improve when they are elevated to the seniors and are surrounded by better footballers.

This should be alesson to the MC....don't be afraid to elevate young players even if they haven't set the world on fire in the VFL. You only uncover these gems by taking a punt. Malthouse has built a premiership team using this approach. Look at Blair for example......every part of you says this bloke shouldn't be playing in a premiership team...far too small:rolleyes:

To be fair (and this has been mentioned in other threads recently) I think our MC hasn't been too afraid of picking players based on their expected output at AFL level instead of their demonstrated output at VFL level. Brennan Stack is one who has been given a go, Grant largely hadn't shown alot prior to last year but was put in after only 1 good game, and Josh Hill isn't one to set the VFL alight.

[LostDoggy]

Every year we need atleast four new players to step up to remain competitive.

Markovic, Sherman, and Libba have come in. Who will be number four?

[LostDoggy]

Well, it looks like we wont see the Three Amigo's back together again soon

I wish Brian all the best for his recovery

Markovic and Williams will have their work cut out for them today , it will be interesting to see who follows Lynch when he goes up the ground . West Coasts mobile tall forward defensive press will be a challenge , it's a very Collingwood theme, you are forced to slow down and kick over the press , this gives them time to get to the contest . Shuey and LeCras can be pressured into making mistakes , Lynch and Darling do give away a few free kicks but also collect a few by pushing back into the contest. Cox can be a real threat at the top of the 50 , an efficient user of the ball he also collects a lot of free kicks . Naitanui is a wildcard , good pace , can be targeted with close pressure as he prefers to handpass than kick , close to the goal square he's hard to stop

over to you Markovic and Williams , hopefully the third Amigo can join you in a few week's

.

[Rocco Jones]

Interesting to see what we do when/if Lake comes back this season.

Williams, Markovic, Lake, Shaggy, Wood and Morris in the same side would be great defensively but do we need to take a risk and create more rebound to match it with the elite sides?

I think Morris, Wood and Shaggy all provide us with opportunities to play on talls/medium targets, which might hurt Markovic. If it's just about being competitive and safe, I would go with them all but as I said, I think we need to take a risk.

[The Whale]

Williams is not up to AFL standard yet. Lake neds to be in the side and paying his way back into form.

[chef]

Williams is not up to AFL standard yet. Lake neds to be in the side and paying his way back into form.

Williams never plays well first game back after injury(even if it's only a week off) and should have been played at Willi.

[LostDoggy]

Williams never plays well first game back after injury(even if it's only a week off) and should have been played at Willi.

Unfortunately he may have been taken as a 1st round draft pick but in reality he is just a second level player.

[BulldogBelle]

Unfortunately he may have been taken as a 1st round draft pick but in reality he is just a second level player.

Pick 6 in the 2004 Draft!!!

Here are some players that were taken after Tommy Gunn

Ahhh. hindsight.

1 7 Jordan Lewis Geelong Falcons Hawthorn
1 8 John Meesen Geelong Falcons Adelaide
1 9 Jordan Russell West Adelaide Football Club Carlton
1 10 Chris Egan Murray Bushrangers Collingwood
1 13 Matthew Bate Eastern Ranges Melbourne
1 14 Angus Monfries Sturt Football Club Essendon
1 15 Lynden Dunn Calder Cannons Melbourne
1 17 Andrew McQualter Gippsland Power St. Kilda
2 23 Sean Rusling West Adelaide Football Club Collingwood
2 24 Nathan Van Berlo West Perth Football Club Adelaide
2 32 Brent Prismall Western Jets Geelong
2 33 Cain Ackland Port Adelaide Football Club St. Kilda
3 37 Mark LeCras West Perth Football Club West Coast Eagles
3 40 Ivan Maric Calder Cannons Adelaide
3 45 Justin Sherman Clarence Football Club Brisbane Lions
4 62 Matthew Egan Geelong VFL Geelong
4 63 James Gwilt Noble Park Football Club St. Kilda
6 74 Daniel Pratt Brisbane Lions (rookie list) Kangaroos

[comrade]

Pick 6 in the 2004 Draft!!!

Here are some players that were taken after Tommy Gunn

Ahhh. hindsight.

1 7 Jordan Lewis Geelong Falcons Hawthorn
1 8 John Meesen Geelong Falcons Adelaide
1 9 Jordan Russell West Adelaide Football Club Carlton
1 10 Chris Egan Murray Bushrangers Collingwood
1 13 Matthew Bate Eastern Ranges Melbourne
1 14 Angus Monfries Sturt Football Club Essendon
1 15 Lynden Dunn Calder Cannons Melbourne
1 17 Andrew McQualter Gippsland Power St. Kilda
2 23 Sean Rusling West Adelaide Football Club Collingwood
2 24 Nathan Van Berlo West Perth Football Club Adelaide
2 32 Brent Prismall Western Jets Geelong
2 33 Cain Ackland Port Adelaide Football Club St. Kilda
3 37 Mark LeCras West Perth Football Club West Coast Eagles
3 40 Ivan Maric Calder Cannons Adelaide
3 45 Justin Sherman Clarence Football Club Brisbane Lions
4 62 Matthew Egan Geelong VFL Geelong
4 63 James Gwilt Noble Park Football Club St. Kilda
6 74 Daniel Pratt Brisbane Lions (rookie list) Kangaroos

That's a pretty poor list to be honest. I'm not exactly gutted we missed out on Jordan Russell or Nathan Van Berlo.

[BulldogBelle]

That's a pretty poor list to be honest. I'm not exactly gutted we missed out on Jordan Russell or Nathan Van Berlo.



Nathan Van Berlo is now the captain of the Crows...I would prefer an AFL club captain anyday...

Speculative, and hindsight only. Such was Scott Clayton's recruiting selections at times...

[always right]

Nathan Van Berlo is now the captain of the Crows...I would prefer an AFL club captain anyday...

Speculative, and hindsight only. Such was Scott Clayton's recruiting selections at times...

Van Berlo is a solid contributor at best....dime a dozen. Tom represented a potential key defender with athletic attributes that suited the way the game was heading. It was worth the punt.

Of the others we missed, I guess Lewis and Le Cras have proven to be good players, although we have plenty like Lewis and I'm not even sure that Le Cras is exactly the type of player we need.

[LostDoggy]

Van Berlo is a solid contributor at best....dime a dozen. Tom represented a potential key defender with athletic attributes that suited the way the game was heading. It was worth the punt.

Of the others we missed, I guess Lewis and Le Cras have proven to be good players, although we have plenty like Lewis and I'm not even sure that Le Cras is exactly the type of player we need.

I think you should rethink that.

[soupman]

Pick 6 in the 2004 Draft!!!

Here are some players that were taken after Tommy Gunn

Ahhh. hindsight.

1 7 Jordan Lewis Geelong Falcons Hawthorn
1 8 John Meesen Geelong Falcons Adelaide
1 9 Jordan Russell West Adelaide Football Club Carlton
1 10 Chris Egan Murray Bushrangers Collingwood
1 13 Matthew Bate Eastern Ranges Melbourne
1 14 Angus Monfries Sturt Football Club Essendon
1 15 Lynden Dunn Calder Cannons Melbourne
1 17 Andrew McQualter Gippsland Power St. Kilda
2 23 Sean Rusling West Adelaide Football Club Collingwood
2 24 Nathan Van Berlo West Perth Football Club Adelaide
2 32 Brent Prismall Western Jets Geelong
2 33 Cain Ackland Port Adelaide Football Club St. Kilda
3 37 Mark LeCras West Perth Football Club West Coast Eagles
3 40 Ivan Maric Calder Cannons Adelaide
3 45 Justin Sherman Clarence Football Club Brisbane Lions
4 62 Matthew Egan Geelong VFL Geelong
4 63 James Gwilt Noble Park Football Club St. Kilda
6 74 Daniel Pratt Brisbane Lions (rookie list) Kangaroos

I'm happy with Tommygun from that draft when you consider of the 18 players picked after him even worth listing, only 4 are considered to be better picks (and the 18 includes Chris Egan, Cain Ackland, John meeson and Ivan Maric).

[always right]

I think you should rethink that.

Fair enough........





I'm not even sure that Le Cras is exactly the type of player we need.