Round #5 Match Committee

[GVGjr]

If you were on the Match Committee who would the likely ins and outs for the round 5 game against the Fremantle Dockers?
Whilst it's a long way off the season will start to get a lot busier for us.

[GVGjr]

I'd have to think Stack might get a spell especially with a few Williamstown boys performing well.

A few of our players were a bit banged up today so there might be an injury or two to cover.

[G-Mo77]

Sounds like we got out of today without any serious injuries. I'm interested to hear the Willy reports to see if we have anyone trying to smash the door down to get to the senior side.

[LostDoggy]

WIth Lake and Gilbee back, I think there is no real place for Stack.

Probably bring in Wallis for a spell or someone who will be a good match up for the following weeks game, Addison possibly.

[comrade]

I'd love to give Addison a run up forward against Freo in preparation for a huge job against Collingwood (tagging Shaw or O'Brien).

Maybe Stack gives way.

[Rocco Jones]

I'd have to think Stack might get a spell especially with a few Williamstown boys performing well.

A few of our players were a bit banged up today so there might be an injury or two to cover.

Hopefully the bye will help with that.

Stack definitely looks like an out and what we do with Markovic will be interesting. Freo don't really play with a traditional power forward type other than perhaps Bradley/resting Sandi. They play a few medium types and Pav. Pav spends a fair bit of his time in the midfield/up the ground and I think a more mobile type is probably more suited to him. IMO they have a whole heap of options who Morris seems best suited to, wish we had Wood and/or Shaggy available for this one.

So Marko, Williams + Lake vs resting ruck, part time Pav and a bunch of mediums. Lack of a medium defensive option probably keeps Marko in for mine.

I would like to see Addison come in to give us some forward defensive pressure.

[Dry Rot]

Are we using the sub well?

Watching the game in the west tonight, both sides brought on a sub with some x factor and who had an impact on the game.

Anyone at Willi who could do this?

[anfo27]

Are we using the sub well?

Watching the game in the west tonight, both sides brought on a sub with some x factor and who had an impact on the game.

Anyone at Willi who could do this?

I like what the eagles have done by making Gaff the sub for the first 3 weeks. Gaff won't have the engine to play a full game yet and being the sub he can be eased in. Thought we should have done this with Wallis, would have made moer sense in making Wallis the sub than Stack.

[Rocco Jones]

Are we using the sub well?

Watching the game in the west tonight, both sides brought on a sub with some x factor and who had an impact on the game.

Anyone at Willi who could do this?

Bit hard to say because in all 3 games the result has been pretty much decided before the sub has been used.

Round 1 I think we did what we had to do with Sherman's limited pre-season + his style.

Round 2 DJ came on when the game was done. I think made a wise choice subbing off Hall and DJ showed the energy you want from the sub, just that he wasn't really good.

Today was more about getting the best 22 a game than tactically using the sub IMO as GC aren't a great threat. If Stack offers something it's his run off half back and I guess that's suited to the sub role, however he was very ordinary.

I think there's a big danger of being too clever by half with the sub. Of course it's great to have someone suited to the burst type of role however I believe it's imperative to balance that with the player also being around the 22nd picked anyway, obviously if the player is that great, you want him on for the maximum amount of time. Another danger in going with the out and out specialist burst type is if an injury happens early and you need someone who offers a decent engine more thane ever.

For mine the perfect sub has pace, is flexible and has a decent brain/temperament as I think there is the danger of running around like a headless chook. Not sure how many perfect subs are left after trying to fill in your best '21' though.

[Rocco Jones]

I like what the eagles have done by making Gaff the sub for the first 3 weeks. Gaff won't have the engine to play a full game yet and being the sub he can be eased in. Thought we should have done this with Wallis, would have made moer sense in making Wallis the sub than Stack.

Not a fan of the permasub, definitely not when it's a younger player. Could be quite harmful to their development. Sure, if you were guaranteed to come on a set time but what about early injuries? Can make for a very unpredictable desired workload during the week.

I am with you on Wallis being a sub against GC though.

[Hotdog60]

Rocket's comments post game makes me feel that Stack will go back to Willy. He didn't seem impressed with his efforts, so I think this will open the door for a medium defender.
Looking at the Foxtel cup game it could be Addison, although I thought he was patchy but the game was patchy as well and not high scoring.
I think we may get a surprise and Rocket may want to include someone with some pace, Have we listed our replacement for Shaggy? If not we may see Dahlhaus who played well though he would be more your small mid/forward option.

For me I think Addison will come in.

[anfo27]

Not a fan of the permasub, definitely not when it's a younger player. Could be quite harmful to their development. Sure, if you were guaranteed to come on a set time but what about early injuries? Can make for a very unpredictable desired workload during the week.

I am with you on Wallis being a sub against GC though.

I wasn't suggesting Gaff be a permanent sub, just a sub for say a month before working him up to a full game. I just think its a smart way to introduce Gaff to the rigours of the game.

[Mofra]

I wasn't suggesting Gaff be a permanent sub, just a sub for say a month before working him up to a full game. I just think its a smart way to introduce Gaff to the rigours of the game.
I think it would go the other way - the kid wouldn't be able to build up match fitness if he's only playing less than a half of football every week.
I'm a fan of rotating ther sub every week.

[bornadog]

I only watched some of the Willi game and thought Minson was fantastic, Howard played well, Addison did a couple of good things DJ got them going in the third quarter and Vez did a couple of good things in the last quarter.

Eade has mentioned he would like to play more young players over the next few weeks, so will be interseting who gets a game. I guess it will depend on matchups.

[Bulldog Joe]

Interesting conundrum for selection committee. Williamstown players going to Perth may struggle if they go back for the Freo game.

We need to consider player welfare as well as those in form.

Consider also that we meet Collingwood 6 days back from Perth and Sydney in Canberra 6 days further on. This is a strenuous schedule for our next 3 games. Recovery is an important factor

My view is that we pick basically from the same 23 that were kept in Melbourne for the Suns.

I would see Mitch Wallis debuting with Stack replaced. Skinner could be a wild card though as he was so good in the Freo practice match.

I am also looking at Minson to replace Hudson for the Collingwood game, and perhaps that would be the game to look at Addison as an inclusion. Reports on Schofield would put him into consideration.

[Bulldog Joe]

I'd love to give Addison a run up forward against Freo in preparation for a huge job against Collingwood (tagging Shaw or O'Brien).

Maybe Stack gives way.

I wouldn't be keen on bringing anyone in for Freo with the view that we need them for Collingwood.
Just save them for Collingwood, so they do not need the travel and will be fresher for the Collingwood game without the recovery issues around the 6 day break and red-eye fligt from Perth.

[comrade]

I wouldn't be keen on bringing anyone in for Freo with the view that we need them for Collingwood.
Just save them for Collingwood, so they do not need the travel and will be fresher for the Collingwood game without the recovery issues around the 6 day break and red-eye fligt from Perth.

Play him as the sub.

[LostDoggy]

I like MarkoV in the side playing along Lake. Gives Lake a chance to run free and set up some plays or even go forward

[LostDoggy]

I don't think we need to think about collingwood at all yet.

We NEED to beat Freo. It's a huge game for us.

[mjp]

Interesting conundrum for selection committee. Williamstown players going to Perth may struggle if they go back for the Freo game.

We need to consider player welfare as well as those in form.


What - two trips in two weeks?

For goodness sake, the Eagles and Dockers do this EVERY fortnight. Player welfare? They aren't being asked to row across the Nullabor...the plane does the flying and the players lose money to one another in card games.

[anfo27]

Anyone concerned with Hudsons form?

[chef]

Anyone concerned with Hudsons form?

Hell yes, especially when Minson is in great form at Willi and could be the better option as our number 1 ruck now.

[Bulldog Joe]

What - two trips in two weeks?

For goodness sake, the Eagles and Dockers do this EVERY fortnight. Player welfare? They aren't being asked to row across the Nullabor...the plane does the flying and the players lose money to one another in card games.

I know what you are saying, but history shows that travel is a factor. I know West Coast and Freo do it every other week, but they are also acclimatised more to it. The young players are often poor away and the history also indicates that the careers are shorter because the older players don't cope as well as those in teams with easier schedules.

I would prefer we look after the players now as we get past most of our significant travel. I do see the Perth trip as the one that is difficult as recovery is impacted by the late finish and flight home. Even bruising is worse with the reduced air pressure on the plane. It is particularly difficult when we are required to front up again on a 6 day turnaround as occurs for this game.

There is also evidence that successive 6 day turnarounds impact player performance due to reduced recovery time.

We are copping successive 6 day breaks as well as the Perth trip. I feel someone like Hudson needs to miss one of those games and the Collingwood one makes sense, with Minson able to stay in Melbourne and get his chance against Collingwood.

It is also likely to be a problem for Hall and maybe he needs to miss one as well, although it is easier to manage his game time.

[anfo27]

Hell yes, especially when Minson is in great form at Willi and could be the better option as our number 1 ruck now.

Do you think the MC would be brave enough to drop Hudson for Minson?

I thought Hudson had a great year last year and was unlucky to at least not make the 40 man AA squad but his start to year has me a little worried.

[LongWait]

Do you think the MC would be brave enough to drop Hudson for Minson?

I thought Hudson had a great year last year and was unlucky to at least not make the 40 man AA squad but his start to year has me a little worried.

Minson gave the selectors something to think about yesterday. Will was clearly best on ground in my opinion and covered the big ground really well. Absolutely tried his heart out whilst playing an intelligent game as well. I was really impressed with Minson (as you can clearly tell.)

Joe - if you haven't seen the game, have a look, as your favourite son was outstanding.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think we need to think about collingwood at all yet.

We NEED to beat Freo. It's a huge game for us.

Agreed. Win that 4 points then reassess.

In: minson, Addison/vas/Howard/dollhouse in that order
Out: Hudson, stack

Marko as the sub or bring vas/Howard in for him and as the sub.

I didn't think hill would be a lock at this stage but he sure is.

Gilbee's disposal was good to have back.

[bornadog]

Anyone concerned with Hudsons form?

I was for the first two rounds but thought he played really well yesterday.

[chef]

Do you think the MC would be brave enough to drop Hudson for Minson?
I thought Hudson had a great year last year and was unlucky to at least not make the 40 man AA squad but his start to year has me a little worried.

You would hope so as age catches up to players very quickly. I'm more worried about us not being as good as we could be(with Willy out of the side).

[bornadog]

What - two trips in two weeks?

For goodness sake, the Eagles and Dockers do this EVERY fortnight. Player welfare? They aren't being asked to row across the Nullabor...the plane does the flying and the players lose money to one another in card games.

I agree, the travel thing is an excuse especially for elite athletes who are fit. I went to Perth on Wednesday, did a days business and was back on the plane the next morning and felt no ill effect. Clubs should be use to it by now.

[LostDoggy]

I was for the first two rounds but thought he played really well yesterday.

I reckon huddo played well around the ground But I think his ruck work was well down. I would really like to see minson given a run as 1st ruck with roughy continuing his current role.

[comrade]

If Minson keeps slamming the door down, Huddo could find himself having a spell. Smith ran him off his feet yesterday, particularly when he took Huddo wide to the wings.

I couldn't help but feel yesterday that now more than ever, AFL footy is a young man's sport. Huddo isn't a young man.

[The Underdog]

I agree, the travel thing is an excuse especially for elite athletes who are fit. I went to Perth on Wednesday, did a days business and was back on the plane the next morning and felt no ill effect. Clubs should be use to it by now.

They've had nearly 25 years to work out the best way to do it and recover in time for the following week.
To do the trip to Perth once or twice a year shouldn't be an issue in any significant way.
Still Collingwood should have to do it at least bi-annually:)

[Bulldog Joe]

Minson gave the selectors something to think about yesterday. Will was clearly best on ground in my opinion and covered the big ground really well. Absolutely tried his heart out whilst playing an intelligent game as well. I was really impressed with Minson (as you can clearly tell.)

Joe - if you haven't seen the game, have a look, as your favourite son was outstanding.

Am away from home this week, but I did set to record and intend to watch when I can.

Of course, I knew Will would dominate as he is too good at the State League level.

[LostDoggy]

Wilbur is obviously pushing for selection, and I would like to see him have a run. He has a lot to prove this year, after 2010 with illness = poor form, and it would seem from reports, he is really giving his all so far.

[Hotdog60]

I agree, the travel thing is an excuse especially for elite athletes who are fit. I went to Perth on Wednesday, did a days business and was back on the plane the next morning and felt no ill effect. Clubs should be use to it by now.

I'd say most would be ok, it's more likely the players that have a few knocks as they can't get into the recovery side of things like normal.

Do the players fly back straight after the game or do they take the next days flight?

[AndrewP6]

They've had nearly 25 years to work out the best way to do it and recover in time for the following week.
To do the trip to Perth once or twice a year shouldn't be an issue in any significant way.
Still Collingwood should have to do it at least bi-annually:)

Too generous. Bi-weekly would be my call. :)

[anfo27]

I was for the first two rounds but thought he played really well yesterday.

Are you concerned his form will continue to fall away as the year goes on or do you think yesterday was the start of Huddo finding some form?

Personally after yesterdays game I was still concerned about Huddo. I think we might have to look at a Minson/Roughead combination.

[Bulldog Joe]

I agree, the travel thing is an excuse especially for elite athletes who are fit. I went to Perth on Wednesday, did a days business and was back on the plane the next morning and felt no ill effect. Clubs should be use to it by now.


I suspect you did not run close to 10ks with intermittent sprints and also avoided all body collision at speed.

Clubs learn to manage and West Coast and Fremantle have the players most acclimatised to the travel. Additionally they mostly get to play a side that has had to travel a long distance to play and is why there is a significant discrepancy in their home and away records.

6 day breaks are difficult to manage and travel requires additional recovery time.

[bornadog]

Are you concerned his form will continue to fall away as the year goes on or do you think yesterday was the start of Huddo finding some form?

Personally after yesterdays game I was still concerned about Huddo. I think we might have to look at a Minson/Roughead combination.

Yes as his age is against him and will probbably need a rest at some stage. At the moemnt he is starting to find form

[bornadog]

I suspect you did not run close to 10ks with intermittent sprints and also avoided all body collision at speed.

Clubs learn to manage and West Coast and Fremantle have the players most acclimatised to the travel. Additionally they mostly get to play a side that has had to travel a long distance to play and is why there is a significant discrepancy in their home and away records.

6 day breaks are difficult to manage and travel requires additional recovery time.

Flight time is only 3.5 hours, they have been doing this for years.

[Bulldog Joe]

Flight time is only 3.5 hours, they have been doing this for years.

Does not alter the fact that it does have an affect and particularly so off a 6 day break.

As I have previously stated, successive 6 day breaks are also an issue and there has been plenty of comment on this over the years.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I'd have to think Stack might get a spell especially with a few Williamstown boys performing well.

A few of our players were a bit banged up today so there might be an injury or two to cover.

The bye should act as a refresher for the Freo game which will be tough. I can see Wallis replacing Stack as the only change.I understand that Wallis missed at the weekend due to the passing of his grandmother.

[bornadog]

Does not alter the fact that it does have an affect and particularly so off a 6 day break.

As I have previously stated, successive 6 day breaks are also an issue and there has been plenty of comment on this over the years.

and as MJP has said, the interstate teams are on a plane every two weeks.

[Mantis]

The bye should act as a refresher for the Freo game which will be tough. I can see Wallis replacing Stack as the only change. I understand that Wallis missed at the weekend due to the passing of his grandmother.

Pretty sure that he was never going to Perth anyway and was staying here in case there was need for a late change.

[Dazza]

I have noticed in the past that when we get a bit of a run on it's generally because of Minson being in the ruck. He is also a little more versatile than Hudson with going forward not out of the question.

That being said Huddo is the safer option. Less brainfades and less silly decisions with the ball.

[Bulldog Joe]

and as MJP has said, the interstate teams are on a plane every two weeks.

which also explains there discrepancy in performance home and away.

[chef]

I have noticed in the past that when we get a bit of a run on it's generally because of Minson being in the ruck. He is also a little more versatile than Hudson with going forward not out of the question.

That being said Huddo is the safer option. Less brainfades and less silly decisions with the ball.

And also less hit outs to advantage, less marks in the forward 50 and less goals by our ruckmen with Huddo as opposed to Willy.

[LostDoggy]

we may see Dahlhaus who played well though he would be more your small mid/forward option.

For me I think Addison will come in.

Can someone talk me through this guy Dahlhaus?????
I caught the Foxtel cup match and he was an exciting watch. Didn't notice him early but finished well. Could be something for the future?????????

[LostDoggy]

Can someone talk me through this guy Dahlhaus?????
I caught the Foxtel cup match and he was an exciting watch. Didn't notice him early but finished well. Could be something for the future?????????

He's very quick and looked really good pre-season which he seems to be continuing. Good burst player and he can apparently tackle hard and frequently as well. I'd love to see him given a chance to be our elusive crumbing forward but he'll be lucky to get elevated. I suspect Hahn and one or two others would be ahead of him if one of our seniors goes down so he's probably stuck in the magoos this year. Great prospect IMO.

[LostDoggy]

He's very quick and looked really good pre-season which he seems to be continuing. Good burst player and he can apparently tackle hard and frequently as well. I'd love to see him given a chance to be our elusive crumbing forward but he'll be lucky to get elevated. I suspect Hahn and one or two others would be ahead of him if one of our seniors goes down so he's probably stuck in the magoos this year. Great prospect IMO.

Thanks for that.
Might be a go'er in a year or two then????

[Mofra]

He's very quick and looked really good pre-season which he seems to be continuing. Good burst player and he can apparently tackle hard and frequently as well.
He did find a bit of the ball at the intra-club match earlier in the year, considering he was only a rookie pick he looked like he had something to offer.
Was in the bests for Willy Reserves week before last too.

Doubt he'll be ready for senior football this year but if he develops physically we could have found ourselves a player.

[Desipura]

He did find a bit of the ball at the intra-club match earlier in the year, considering he was only a rookie pick he looked like he had something to offer.
Was in the bests for Willy Reserves week before last too.

Doubt he'll be ready for senior football this year but if he develops physically we could have found ourselves a player.

Hooper was not ready and got a game. Its a young mans game. He certainly fits what we are lacking, pace to burn, small goalsneak and tackles

[Mantis]

Out - Markovic, Hudson, Stack

In - Wallis, Minson, Djerrkura

I can't see the point in playing 3 tall defenders against Freo, so Markovic comes out.

I also can't see Hudson playing both the Freo & Coll game so he stays at home for this one.

[Doc26]

Out - Markovic, Hudson, Stack

In - Wallis, Minson, Djerrkura

I can't see the point in playing 3 tall defenders against Freo, so Markovic comes out.

I also can't see Hudson playing both the Freo & Coll game so he stays at home for this one.

Mantis, is Huddo's possible exclusion due injury, form or simply an idea to rest him ?

[Mantis]

Mantis, is Huddo's possible exclusion due injury, form or simply an idea to rest him ?

A little bit form, a little bit rest.

I just can't see him being effective against both Freo (Sandilands) & Collingwood (Jolly) in successive weeks when facing a shortened week and believe we need him more against Collingwood due to their playing style.

[Ghost Dog]

Rocket was pretty disappointed with Stack in the press conference. he would have been ok down back if he hadn't fumbled the ball so much. Mitch and Djekurra sounds good.

[immortalmike]

Out - Markovic, Hudson, Stack

In - Wallis, Minson, Djerrkura

I can't see the point in playing 3 tall defenders against Freo, so Markovic comes out.

I also can't see Hudson playing both the Freo & Coll game so he stays at home for this one.

My problem with this is that Huddo often completely nullifies Sandilands when we play Freo.

[bornadog]

Rocket was pretty disappointed with Stack in the press conference. he would have been ok down back if he hadn't fumbled the ball so much. Mitch and Djekurra sounds good.

I watched the reply and he had 8 disposals and not one fumble, however, a couple of his kicks could have been better, like the shot at goal in the last.

[Mantis]

My problem with this is that Huddo often completely nullifies Sandilands when we play Freo.

That's true.

I guess we might believe that we are more chance of beating Freo so will play a stronger side against them and then make changes to the team for the Collingwood game knowing that in current form we probably aren't going to beat them anyway.

[Ghost Dog]

I watched the reply and he had 8 disposals and not one fumble, however, a couple of his kicks could have been better, like the shot at goal in the last.

The main issue is he was a sub and didn't really use his pace. The sub needs to do that.

[Rocco Jones]

That's true.

I guess we might believe that we are more chance of beating Freo so will play a stronger side against them and then make changes to the team for the Collingwood game knowing that in current form we probably aren't going to beat them anyway.

Without sounding too pessimistic, this is the way I would go. A lot of fans have made comments about resting players so they are fresh for Collingwood, I think the Freo game is actually more important to us. Collingwood are going to be a loss to pretty much every team, which kind of cancels out the loss (same as our win against GC). We also only get them once.

I would definitely settle for splitting our next two games. Look, I am definitely not saying tank the Collingwood game, just don't compromise the Freo game. If doing everything in our reasonable measure to beat Freo means we are compromising our chances vs Collingwood, so be it.

[The Pie Man]

That's true.

I guess we might believe that we are more chance of beating Freo so will play a stronger side against them and then make changes to the team for the Collingwood game knowing that in current form we probably aren't going to beat them anyway.

I agree with this point - which makes this Freo game so important in my eyes in the context of season momentum. The older guys may need a rest after the Perth trip, but given we're on a bye now I'd hope we're full strength for this one.

[Ghost Dog]

Without sounding too pessimistic, this is the way I would go. A lot of fans have made comments about resting players so they are fresh for Collingwood, I think the Freo game is actually more important to us. Collingwood are going to be a loss to pretty much every team, which kind of cancels out the loss (same as our win against GC). We also only get them once.

I would definitely settle for splitting our next two games. Look, I am definitely not saying tank the Collingwood game, just don't compromise the Freo game. If doing everything in our reasonable measure to beat Freo means we are compromising our chances vs Collingwood, so be it.


I thought the blues did very well in certain aspects of the game. It wasn't as one sided as I thought it would be. I'm not of the opinion that they're as unbeatable as many say. They'll have good days and bad - like all teams. Hope we field a full side to get the real measure of where we are at.

[Rocco Jones]

I thought the blues did very well in certain aspects of the game. It wasn't as one sided as I thought it would be. I'm not of the opinion that they're as unbeatable as many say. They'll have good days and bad - like all teams. Hope we field a full side to get the real measure of where we are at.

I agree that they are not unbeatable. I said they will be a loss to pretty much every team. They look a 19-3/20-2 kinda side to me.

I totally agree with us fielding a full side against them. My point is that I would not compromise the Freo game for it. We are playing for 4 points no matter the opposition.

[the banker]

ATM one week at a time. Pick the team to beat Freo. Worry about beating Collingwood after that.

This does not negate the big picture planning. If there is something we need to test in the Collingwood game - do it.

I would be thinking this early in the season we should be looking to win every game. I love the way everyone is talking up Collingwood. Hope they start believing it themselves....

If Hudson has a good record against Sandilands it seems sensible to retain him for that match.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Out - Markovic, Hudson, Stack

In - Wallis, Minson, Djerrkura

I can't see the point in playing 3 tall defenders against Freo, so Markovic comes out.

I also can't see Hudson playing both the Freo & Coll game so he stays at home for this one.

The value of sticking with Markovic is that it provides some flexibility to move Lake forward if required. Hudson's form has been average this year and our inability to win at the clearances against the Suns is a big concern. Will Minson could have been traded at the end of last year and it is still questionable as to whether he is good enough.I do agree however that Hudson could struggle against both Sandilands and Jolly and perhaps at long last Minson has earned a reprieve by showing more consistency in the past few weeks. Yet to be convinced about Stack, Djerrkura and Veszpremi as senior players. The performances of Liberatore so far should convince the MC to play Wallis.

[mjp]

I don't really understand the calls for Wallis.
- Surely Addison is ahead of him - particularly if he is replacing Stack as a flanker.
- Why isn't Sam Reid ahead of him as a midfielder? If we are throwing a bone, isn't this where we should throw it?

Against Freo, we can basically throw Lake forward (if we want too, which I don't) whether Markovic plays or not. Their forward line consists of Mayne (midget), Ballantyne (midget), McPhee (Morris size), Pavlich, sometimes Bradley, Walters (midget), Fyfe (mid sized)...I am sure you get the idea. Not only do we not need three of them we might not even need two of them for most of the time.

[comrade]

I don't really understand the calls for Wallis.
- Surely Addison is ahead of him - particularly if he is replacing Stack as a flanker.
- Why isn't Sam Reid ahead of him as a midfielder? If we are throwing a bone, isn't this where we should throw it?


Wallis is already a better runner than Addison. Wouldn't this be handy at Subi? That being said, I want Addison in the team but as a defensive forward. Maybe Gia should have a spell ;)

Sam Reid is moving as well as Mitch Hahn was during last year's finals series. I reckon he'd blow up half way through the second quarter. Plus, we already have enough grunters in our midfield. We need someone who can run from contest to contest. Reports from Wallis' first hitout down at Werribee were very positive in this regard.

[mjp]

Wallis is already a better runner than Addison. Wouldn't this be handy at Subi? That being said, I want Addison in the team but as a defensive forward. Maybe Gia should have a spell ;)

Sam Reid is moving as well as Mitch Hahn was during last year's finals series. I reckon he'd blow up half way through the second quarter. Plus, we already have enough grunters in our midfield. We need someone who can run from contest to contest. Reports from Wallis' first hitout down at Werribee were very positive in this regard.

Don't necessarily disagree, but:
- What makes Wallis a better fit than Addison?

We need someone who can play an outside role (as you identify in your comments about Reid) but that isn't really Wallis' go. If Stack goes out - an outside runner (or that is what he should be) then we need to bring an outside mid/flanker type in. Isn't that Addison?

The romance of selecting Wallis aside, if Addison can come in and play HHF, lay some tackles, help lock the ball in and maybe snag a couple - with the bonus that he can play as a small back (albeit one with a wayward foot) if required - isn't that a better fit than another inside mid? Based on what I saw last week Schofield might actually be the best fit of all, because he can play as an outside runner quite competently and did hit targets by foot (against poor opposition I admit, but he was playing u18s a few months ago).

That is my point about Reid...if Liberatore and Wallis have already gone past him as inside players, then maybe he really does need to give it away? As for needing run at Subi, be careful. You need to win the contested ball to enable the runners to do their work - Victorian sides have been falling for this 3-card trick for a long time now. And Reid didn't look that bad against Swans.

[ledge]

I dont understand why Addison doesnt get a game more regularly, he is great at a contest and can also take a grab, I think he gets a raw deal to be honest from the MC.

[The Pie Man]

The romance of selecting Wallis aside, if Addison can come in and play HHF, lay some tackles, help lock the ball in and maybe snag a couple - with the bonus that he can play as a small back (albeit one with a wayward foot) if required - isn't that a better fit than another inside mid?

What I like about Addison forward is his ability to nail a set shot - his turnovers in the back half were more down to decision making than capacity to dispose of the footy, and he's a good size who is OK over his head.

It's been said by a few, and I agree that he had a decent 2011 finals series playing this role.

[bornadog]

The main issue is he was a sub and didn't really use his pace. The sub needs to do that.

No the main issue is the first player posters pick on is Stack. The first thing you said was he fumbled, when he didn't actually fumble. Time and again posters have a whipping boy and don't take into consideration circumstances such as with Stack, that he has only played 13 games. All they can remember are the couple of mistakes and judge the whole game on that.

He will be unlucky to be dropped as he played ok for the first two weeks then came on as a sub first going to the forward line then the backline. He wasn't brilliant but did pick up some disposals. Its unfortunate as he was starting to gain confidence against Brisbane and now if he is dropped he will have to start again.

[Doc26]

Maybe we could just go with the novelty of 'No Change' to promote some stability, familiarity and confidence.

[comrade]

Don't necessarily disagree, but:
- What makes Wallis a better fit than Addison?

We need someone who can play an outside role (as you identify in your comments about Reid) but that isn't really Wallis' go. If Stack goes out - an outside runner (or that is what he should be) then we need to bring an outside mid/flanker type in. Isn't that Addison?

The romance of selecting Wallis aside, if Addison can come in and play HHF, lay some tackles, help lock the ball in and maybe snag a couple - with the bonus that he can play as a small back (albeit one with a wayward foot) if required - isn't that a better fit than another inside mid? Based on what I saw last week Schofield might actually be the best fit of all, because he can play as an outside runner quite competently and did hit targets by foot (against poor opposition I admit, but he was playing u18s a few months ago).

That is my point about Reid...if Liberatore and Wallis have already gone past him as inside players, then maybe he really does need to give it away? As for needing run at Subi, be careful. You need to win the contested ball to enable the runners to do their work - Victorian sides have been falling for this 3-card trick for a long time now. And Reid didn't look that bad against Swans.

Some really good points and I probably am selling Addison's versatility short. As you identified in an earlier post, Freo has multiple small forwards so throwing someone like Dylan down back for a spell might be required.

And I love his desire to tackle and harass in the forward line.

You've convinced me. Addison in!

[LongWait]

I don't really understand the calls for Wallis.
- Surely Addison is ahead of him - particularly if he is replacing Stack as a flanker.
- Why isn't Sam Reid ahead of him as a midfielder? If we are throwing a bone, isn't this where we should throw it?
Against Freo, we can basically throw Lake forward (if we want too, which I don't) whether Markovic plays or not. Their forward line consists of Mayne (midget), Ballantyne (midget), McPhee (Morris size), Pavlich, sometimes Bradley, Walters (midget), Fyfe (mid sized)...I am sure you get the idea. Not only do we not need three of them we might not even need two of them for most of the time.

Addison and Reid were just ok at best in Perth. Minson and DJ deserve a call up before them on form (and Minson may not have a role to play against Freo unless Hudson is spelled.)

[comrade]

Addison and Reid were just ok at best in Perth. Minson and DJ deserve a call up before them on form (and Minson may not have a role to play against Freo unless Hudson is spelled.)

I don't think Dylan will ever dominate at VFL level. He's just not that type though I thought he was pretty good on the weekend.

He's a role player that has proven he can step up on short notice and perform under immense pressure.

[JohnGentStand]

. The performances of Liberatore so far should convince the MC to play Wallis.[/QUOTE]

it wouldn't hurt to treat libba and wallis as separate players / separate cases.....If Wallis knocks the door down he is in. That SHOULD be, IMO, the no#1 criteria for any player pushing for a game. Romance aside, we all expect him to debut sooner rather than later, but it would be nice if his form absolutely demanded it. I hope Minson gets a call up soon :D

[Before I Die]

Don't necessarily disagree, but:
- What makes Wallis a better fit than Addison?

Not sure that Wallis is necessarily a better fit, but he has been an emergency the last two weeks which means the MC see him as knocking on the door. My understanding is that Wallis plays both inside and outside.

I suspect Stack will go out next week (he didn't get a run until late and then showed very little)but I am not too sure who will come in. Probably Wallis, though it will depend on who shows a bit at Williamstown this weekend.

Interesting that we were beaten in the clearances yet WOOF and the media had Boyd, Cross and Griffin in the best. Maybe Wallis is a good fit for our needs.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

+1 for Addison.

More flexible than Wallis at this stage. Ability to play back, forward or in the midfield is handy and could be put to good use against decent sides (Freo, Collingwood). Against the weaker sides, Addison will struggle, as he doesn't have a defined role.

Plenty of time for Wallis to debut.

[Mantis]

+1 for Addison.

More flexible than Wallis at this stage. Ability to play back, forward or in the midfield is handy and could be put to good use against decent sides (Freo, Collingwood). Against the weaker sides, Addison will struggle, as he doesn't have a defined role.



The only role Addison can play effectively against decent opposition is that of a defensive forward.

To me that makes him quite limited.

[ledge]

The only role Addison can play effectively against decent opposition is that of a defensive forward.

To me that makes him quite limited.

Isnt that what Eade says we lack? pressure in our forward line?

[Mantis]

Isnt that what Eade says we lack? pressure in our forward line?

That's fine, but to add him to our forwardline you need to remove someone.

Who is that someone?

[Rocco Jones]

On Markovic....

I have already posted comments about him not having a clear match up due to Freo's small forward line which mjp went into. I agree there are hardly two tall match ups, let alone three. The problem is though, who do we actually have to take the defensive roles? With Wood and Shaggy out, we are done medium defenders in a game where we need as many as possible. Everyone he Stack out, that's another one gone.

So that leaves Lake, Williams, Gilbee, Bobby and Morris. Hill probably needs to spend him off the HBF, I will we need one more who can spend time there to help out with match ups.

We have seen plenty examples of medium defenders playing 'tall' in times of need but can Markovic get into the side due to the opposite? He won't directly offer us an option to play on a medium forward but perhaps he can 'free up' Williams to play on a medium forward.

[ledge]

That's fine, but to add him to our forwardline you need to remove someone.

Who is that someone?

Someone who lacks the defensive pressure?
Who is our least hardest worker in that area ?
Obviously we have the problem because Eade said we were focussing on it in the preseason.
One tackle in our forward line in the first game tells me it didnt work too well.
The good thing about Addison is he can go back too, very versatile depending on the matchups and whats happening in the game.
I just think he is better than a languishing fill in player, playing at Willy more often than he should.
Would he make a good winger? Good hands, hard at the ball can defend and attack.
You wont ever question Addisons effort either.

[Mantis]

Someone who lacks the defensive pressure?
Who is our least hardest worker in that area ?
Obviously we have the problem because Eade said we were focussing on it in the preseason.
One tackle in our forward line in the first game tells me it didnt work too well.


Go out on a limb and name someone.


The good thing about Addison is he can go back too, very versatile depending on the matchups and whats happening in the game.
I just think he is better than a languishing fill in player, playing at Willy more often than he should.
Would he make a good winger? Good hands, hard at the ball can defend and attack.
You wont ever question Addisons effort either.

Addison is very limited to the type of player he can play on in defence or on a wing as he isn't that quick and has the agility of a ruckman.

We all saw the mess Thomas made of him in the QF when he played on someone who has some talent.

[Desipura]

Go out on a limb and name someone.



Addison is very limited to the type of player he can play on in defence or on a wing as he isn't that quick and has the agility of a ruckman.

We all saw the mess Thomas made of him in the QF when he played on someone who has some talent.


Someone who lacks the defensive pressure?
Who is our least hardest worker in that area ?
Obviously we have the problem because Eade said we were focussing on it in the preseason.
One tackle in our forward line in the first game tells me it didnt work too well.
The good thing about Addison is he can go back too, very versatile depending on the matchups and whats happening in the game.
I just think he is better than a languishing fill in player, playing at Willy more often than he should.
Would he make a good winger? Good hands, hard at the ball can defend and attack.
You wont ever question Addisons effort either.

Im not totally convinced that our forward line does not work hard, its just they do not have the closing speed to lay a tackle or at least apply pressure.
Lets have a look at our regular forwards:

Hall - tackles when the player is in close proximity, does not apply pressure, tightness in the hammy and age would not help.

Grant - needs to takle with intent like in parts last season or at least apply pressure which he has not to date (if not for his pace, I would look at him to have a rest)

Higgins - does not tackle and is not the quickest going around but when fit he has a surprisingly good burst of speed over 10-15 metres, unfortunately I have not seen it since the Collingwood game 2 years ago when he kicked 4 for memory.
Is safe as he can create a mismatch with his ability to mark overhead. (I still recall the Geelong final a few years back when he was dangerous up forward). I still think he will get some form back now that he is over his injuries.

Gia - not quick, does tackle when the player is close by, not quick enough to apply pressure to an opponent when he is rebounding out of defence. He is the one that needs to make way IMHO

In: Schofield, Wallis & Djerkurra
Out: Markovic, Stack & Gia

[ledge]

I didnt have a player in mind but looking at Desipuras post he thinks its Gia.

I tend to think who he replaces and sides are put together depending on the opposition line up.

One week it might be Gia one week it might be another player, some weeks Addison doesnt suit either but I do think he deserves more games than he gets due to being a lot more versatile and happy to chase and tackle.

[Desipura]

I didnt have a player in mind but looking at Desipuras post he thinks its Gia.

I tend to think who he replaces and sides are put together depending on the opposition line up.

One week it might be Gia one week it might be another player, some weeks Addison doesnt suit either but I do think he deserves more games than he gets due to being a lot more versatile and happy to chase and tackle.

It does depend on the opposition as you say, Gia's lack of pace is not suited to W.A and Collingwood has historically played a rebounding player on him and alot of their rebound has come through that player (Heath Shaw)

[Bulldog Revolution]

Go out on a limb and name someone.

Addison is very limited to the type of player he can play on in defence or on a wing as he isn't that quick and has the agility of a ruckman.

We all saw the mess Thomas made of him in the QF when he played on someone who has some talent.

Do you really think Addisons agility is comparable to Huddo or Minson?

If it is why would the match committee have played him on Thomas?

Thomas killed pretty much everyone he played on September, and our team struggled ridiculously on the night against the Pies. Addison responded very well against Sydney.

I'll accept reasonable criticism of Addison but I think this is a bit of a cheap shot at a guy that hasn't had a senior game in 2011. If you'd just said we have to have to think about an appropriate matchup for him I could have accepted it.

[G-Mo77]

I've seen Schofield's name thrown around a bit. Is he a strong kid? Is he a good tackler? Quick? What's his disposal like? If he were to be named what position would he play and what would his role be?

I haven't seen him play yet.

[LostDoggy]

Im not totally convinced that our forward line does not work hard, its just they do not have the closing speed to lay a tackle or at least apply pressure.
Lets have a look at our regular forwards:

Hall - tackles when the player is in close proximity, does not apply pressure, tightness in the hammy and age would not help.

Grant - needs to takle with intent like in parts last season or at least apply pressure which he has not to date (if not for his pace, I would look at him to have a rest)

Higgins - does not tackle and is not the quickest going around but when fit he has a surprisingly good burst of speed over 10-15 metres, unfortunately I have not seen it since the Collingwood game 2 years ago when he kicked 4 for memory.
Is safe as he can create a mismatch with his ability to mark overhead. (I still recall the Geelong final a few years back when he was dangerous up forward). I still think he will get some form back now that he is over his injuries.

Gia - not quick, does tackle when the player is close by, not quick enough to apply pressure to an opponent when he is rebounding out of defence. He is the one that needs to make way IMHO

In: Schofield, Wallis & Djerkurra
Out: Markovic, Stack & Gia


I like those changes and I would have Hudson on notice. Especially if Minson keeps up his good form.

[Desipura]

I like those changes and I would have Hudson on notice. Especially if Minson keeps up his good form.

Your little signature which reads: To win a flag we must improve. To improve the following players must be pushed out by better players. Gia, Cross, and Hargrave



This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ is correct to a degree

[the banker]

Saw Schofield in the NAB challenge v Brisbane. Impression from that game: Quick straight ahead player with intensity. Skills seemed OK. A runner - Got to contests. Looked like he wanted to impose himself on the contest. FRom accounts he is a niggler....Lots of attributes supporters like.

The way they have handled him to date I would think his time may be later in the season?

[Desipura]

Saw Schofield in the NAB challenge v Brisbane. Impression from that game: Quick straight ahead player with intensity. Skills seemed OK. A runner - Got to contests. Looked like he wanted to impose himself on the contest. FRom accounts he is a niggler....Lots of attributes supporters like.

The way they have handled him to date I would think his time may be later in the season?

The local paper has reported Rocket is a huge fan of his so may be sooner than later.

[Mofra]

Someone who lacks the defensive pressure?
Who is our least hardest worker in that area ?
Barry Hall. By a long margin. He's not getting dropped anytime soon.

The forward 50 pressure has far less to do with pace than people think - it's simply about intent. Last year our two best forwards for tackles were Gia & Hahn - arguably, they were our two slowest. St Kilda is possibly the slowest team in the competition, yet their F50 pressure last year was excellent.

Higgins led the way for pressure last weekend, and he's not super-quick (and still people potted him for workrate :rolleyes:)

[Greystache]

Barry Hall. By a long margin. He's not getting dropped anytime soon.

The forward 50 pressure has far less to do with pace than people think - it's simply about intent. Last year our two best forwards for tackles were Gia & Hahn - arguably, they were our two slowest. St Kilda is possibly the slowest team in the competition, yet their F50 pressure last year was excellent.

Higgins led the way for pressure last weekend, and he's not super-quick (and still people potted him for workrate :rolleyes:)

spot on, I can't understand why people keep missing this point. You don't apply pressure from behind, you apply pressure from in front. You don't need to be quick to apply pressure from in front, St Kilda shows that, it's about commitment to making it happen. Our senior players and creative types simply don't have the commitment to defend.

On your other point, I still don't see how you think Higgins led the way for pressure, he played well by being creative, but he finished mid-table for tackles, and routinely doesn't defend until a player is running away, at which point he puts in a token chase.

[ledge]

]Barry Hall.[/B] By a long margin. He's not getting dropped anytime soon.

The forward 50 pressure has far less to do with pace than people think - it's simply about intent. Last year our two best forwards for tackles were Gia & Hahn - arguably, they were our two slowest. St Kilda is possibly the slowest team in the competition, yet their F50 pressure last year was excellent.

Higgins led the way for pressure last weekend, and he's not super-quick (and still people potted him for workrate :rolleyes:)

Disagree I think he is one of the hardest. You cant go on numbers of tackles with him its also how the opposition players panic when they know he is around , causing turnovers just knowing he is close.
His presence is huge in that regard.

[comrade]

On your other point, I still don't see how you think Higgins led the way for pressure, he played well by being creative, but he finished mid-table for tackles, and routinely doesn't defend until a player is running away, at which point he puts in a token chase.

Then runs into an opposition sheperd and falls over so he doesn't have to chase anymore.

[bornadog]

I like those changes and I would have Hudson on notice. Especially if Minson keeps up his good form.


Your little signature which reads: To win a flag we must improve. To improve the following players must be pushed out by better players. Gia, Cross, and Hargrave



This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ is correct to a degree

Please tell me your joking

[bornadog]

Higgins led the way for pressure last weekend, and he's not super-quick (and still people potted him for workrate :rolleyes:)

Agree. if he had of kicked those easy goals he would have been almost best on the ground.


On your other point, I still don't see how you think Higgins led the way for pressure, he played well by being creative, but he finished mid-table for tackles, and routinely doesn't defend until a player is running away, at which point he puts in a token chase.

Sorry for the stats, but of his 31 disposals, 19 were contested, so he was right in there. Yes his defensive side needs improving, but he is still a gun.

[Maddog37]

I still think he is just potentially a gun at this point.

[Rocco Jones]

I still think he is just potentially a gun at this point.

Agreed. He definitely has the potential to be a gun, even elite but he needs to show it against some decent opposition. Don't really blame him, his injuries/illness have limited his opportunity to prove otherwise. No having a go at him but all he has proven this year is that he is a flat track bully (I don't really see that as an insult anyway, at least it means you care about the games). The next few games will be a great test and soon hopefully nobody will be doubting whether is a gun

[Greystache]

Sorry for the stats, but of his 31 disposals, 19 were contested, so he was right in there. Yes his defensive side needs improving, but he is still a gun.

I agree he played well, and his missed shots at goal were an aborition for what is as very reliable set shot at goal. My concern is he is indicative of our weakness as a team, senior players who do good work offensively are given a free pass for slack defensive efforts. Fringe players get torched by the MC for for not applying defensive pressure, Josh Hill is a case in point, but for the senior players it's just a nice to have. This culture is the reason I'm so pessimistic about our premiership aspirations this year.

[Rocco Jones]

Just a generic comment on the MC- I am pleased to see their 'fresh' approach this season. Libba gets a crack straight away, trying to actually do something with the modern 2nd ruck role, giving Stack a go due to his upside and not rushing in Lake and Gilbee. The MC have rightfully been knocked in the past for favouring guys with credits in the bank but I think they deserve some love for their work this season so far.

[GVGjr]

Just a generic comment on the MC- I am pleased to see their 'fresh' approach this season. Libba gets a crack straight away, trying to actually do something with the modern 2nd ruck role, giving Stack a go due to his upside and not rushing in Lake and Gilbee. The MC have rightfully been knocked in the past for favouring guys with credits in the bank but I think they deserve some love for their work this season so far.

Some very good points raised RJ.

I guess we lost a bit of experience from last season and we probably don't have the depth to do the same things we have over the last couple of years.
It did get frustrating to see us go back to Hahn and Eagleton so many times but know we are somewhat forced to look at the younger guys. The MC doesn't have a bad record of introducing new players each year.

[Go_Dogs]

Go out on a limb and name someone.



Addison is very limited to the type of player he can play on in defence or on a wing as he isn't that quick and has the agility of a ruckman.

We all saw the mess Thomas made of him in the QF when he played on someone who has some talent.


I think you're selling him a little short. Yes, he played his best game late last year in that defensive forward role, but he put in some other good performances throughout the year and I think he has more strings to his bow than you seem to.

Ths Thomas example is an interesting one, and whilst Thomas is definitely a more "talented" player, he's also an incredibly hard worker and outworked just about all comers last year.

[Mantis]

I think you're selling him a little short. Yes, he played his best game late last year in that defensive forward role, but he put in some other good performances throughout the year and I think he has more strings to his bow than you seem to.

Perhaps.

Dylan is a honest foot soldier, but he doesn't having any qualities which scream 'pick me'. He can play this defensive forward role against good teams, but I'm not sure what other role he can effectively play against good opposition.

It will be interesting to watch how Dylan is used when he gets his chance.


The Thomas example is an interesting one, and whilst Thomas is definitely a more "talented" player, he's also an incredibly hard worker and outworked just about all comers last year.

I think it was hoped that Dylan would be able to physically out-muscle or intimidate Thomas, but when this failed he was made to look second-rate.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think it was hoped that Dylan would be able to physically out-muscle or intimidate Thomas, but when this failed he was made to look second-rate.

As did everyone else in the team not named Griffen

Addison definitely struggled on the night but when the rest of the side struggles mightily surely its hard in a run with role to nullify a class opponent

[Ghost Dog]

Perhaps.

Dylan is a honest foot soldier, but he doesn't having any qualities which scream 'pick me'. .

Certain teams have won premierships with a whole list of players like Dylan. Swans for example.
It's about the plan and the players who are disciplined to fit into it. Your work horse types that can follow instructions and perform with some regularity are always needed. I really would have him over certain hot and cold types we have in our current list.

[Go_Dogs]

Back on selection, at this stage, my take is (subject to change):

Out: Hudson (rested), Stack and Markovic

In: Minson, Wallis, and Schofield

[Mantis]

Addison definitely struggled on the night but when the rest of the side struggles mightily surely its hard in a run with role to nullify a class opponent

How the side performs has no bearing on your ability to compete with an opponent in a 1 on 1 duel.

[LostDoggy]

Wonder if Jolly rested/injured this week influences whether or not to do the same with Hudson against Freo.

[LostDoggy]

What does everyone think of Jarrod Grants start to the season?

His been pretty poor IMO. Especially on the weekend he had Hunt playing on him for majority of the game and failed to get anywhere near it.

I thought he was OK against the bombers, but his last 2 games against weak opposition have been ordinary.

Does he need a wake up call? Does he need to be dropped to make him realise he needs to work hard to keep his spot?

[LostDoggy]

What does everyone think of Jarrod Grants start to the season?

His been pretty poor IMO. Especially on the weekend he had Hunt playing on him for majority of the game and failed to get anywhere near it.

I thought he was OK against the bombers, but his last 2 games against weak opposition have been ordinary.

Does he need a wake up call? Does he need to be dropped to make him realise he needs to work hard to keep his spot?

I actually thought his game last week was not too bad. While he did not mark the ball or kick goals himself he got to a lot of contests and managed to create numerous goals by bringing the ball to ground and then helping clear it out to our running players.

In particular he tapped the ball over the pack several times and used his agility and pace to help clear it out the back. I also though that KMH enjoyed some leniency from the umpires with regards to spoiling, in terms of hands in the back, chopping the arm and tunneling.

[LostDoggy]

How the side performs has no bearing on your ability to compete with an opponent in a 1 on 1 duel.

SO a side that is on top around the ground, that blocks better and more often, provides more open options to dispose to, plays better structures in contested situations and provides more diposals to advantage does not have a bearing on a one on one duel??

If you are talking about 50:50 one on ones throughout that match then I agree with you, given Daisy's pace and agility he was always going to be a difficult player for Dylan to man especially given his insitinctive ability. But in the general sense I can't agree with the above.

[EasternWest]

How the side performs has no bearing on your ability to compete with an opponent in a 1 on 1 duel.

Disagree with that. If the guy you're playing on is getting chopped out by his teammates and he's got plenty of targets to go for, you can look pretty ordinary without it all being your fault.

That's not to say in a perfect world I think Addison can go with Thomas (I don't), but a tight congested game versus a free and open smashing can give 1 on 1 contests a completely different look.

[Go_Dogs]

SO a side that is on top around the ground, that blocks better and more often, provides more open options to dispose to, plays better structures in contested situations and provides more diposals to advantage does not have a bearing on a one on one duel??

If you are talking about 50:50 one on ones throughout that match then I agree with you, given Daisy's pace and agility he was always going to be a difficult player for Dylan to man especially given his insitinctive ability. But in the general sense I can't agree with the above.

Agree with you on this one SOLB.

[Mofra]

Certain teams have won premierships with a whole list of players like Dylan. Swans for example.
Really? As I read their list circa mid 2000s, they were hugely underrated for talent.
Bolton & McVeigh were often described as good honest plodders but in reality at their peak they were fantastic players - Bolton is still arguably A grade material or close to it.

Throw in Hall, Goodes, Jolly & O'Loghlan - all genuine gun talls - they had a lower "plodder" ratio than a team like the Saints IMO.

[Ghost Dog]

Really? As I read their list circa mid 2000s, they were hugely underrated for talent.
Bolton & McVeigh were often described as good honest plodders but in reality at their peak they were fantastic players - Bolton is still arguably A grade material or close to it.

Throw in Hall, Goodes, Jolly & O'Loghlan - all genuine gun talls - they had a lower "plodder" ratio than a team like the Saints IMO.

Yes, fair comment Mofra. Certain teams tend to get a label and people apply it liberally.
McVeigh and Bolton - agreed
But isn't it all a bit relative? They had no Judd, Wirepunda ( spelling? ) or Ben Cuz or Dean Cox. and yet it was the Leo Barry types and others who won the day.

Dylan Addison - It's especially because he's not flashy, in the Dale Morrison vein, that I love the guy. When he gets knocked down he gets straight up for more.

[bornadog]

Yes, fair comment Mofra. Certain teams tend to get a label and people apply it liberally.
McVeigh and Bolton - agreed
But isn't it all a bit relative? They had no Judd, Wirepunda ( spelling? ) or Ben Cuz or Dean Cox. and yet it was the Leo Barry types and others who won the day.

Dylan Addison - It's especially because he's not flashy, in the Dale Morrison vein, that I love the guy. When he gets knocked down he gets straight up for more.

At the end of the day you need all your players playing consistent football with little injury and playing as a team. You can't rely on one or two players. I think Addison is a team player and will give you 100%, he just needs a role that he makes his own.

[Sockeye Salmon]

dale morrison

wtf?

[Ghost Dog]

wtf?

That would be Morris. hey I was multitasking post policeman plod.

[Ghost Dog]

At the end of the day you need all your players playing consistent football with little injury and playing as a team. You can't rely on one or two players. I think Addison is a team player and will give you 100%, he just needs a role that he makes his own.

Well said.

[FrediKanoute]

I actually thought his game last week was not too bad. While he did not mark the ball or kick goals himself he got to a lot of contests and managed to create numerous goals by bringing the ball to ground and then helping clear it out to our running players.

In particular he tapped the ball over the pack several times and used his agility and pace to help clear it out the back. I also though that KMH enjoyed some leniency from the umpires with regards to spoiling, in terms of hands in the back, chopping the arm and tunneling.

Agree. Grant was solid against GCS. Hunt may be an average footballer, but he is still a physically strong person and had pace. That worried Grant a bit, because most guys he plays on are either strong or quick, but not both. I though he did ok though. Vertainly batteled away and stayed involved even when things weren't going for him.

I was pretty impressed with Hill as well. I think his start to the season has been super. He is great as a sweeper down back and his willingness to create run is adding another string to our bow. We finally seem to be seeing someof that VO2 rating they were going on about a few years back.

[LostDoggy]

I was pretty impressed with Hill as well. I think his start to the season has been super. He is great as a sweeper down back and his willingness to create run is adding another string to our bow. We finally seem to be seeing someof that VO2 rating they were going on about a few years back.

Totally agree. Hill has been a stand-out for mine and must be becoming one of the auto-picks for the MC. Total turn-around from the rubbish delivered last year and another one (like Minno) that seems to have had a wake-up call. Great to see as he's got a bucket of talent on his game.

[Mofra]

Totally agree. Hill has been a stand-out for mine and must be becoming one of the auto-picks for the MC. Total turn-around from the rubbish delivered last year and another one (like Minno) that seems to have had a wake-up call. Great to see as he's got a bucket of talent on his game.
The injuries to rebounding defenders could be a blessing in disguise - Hill's judgement and leap are real assets in the back half and his ball use is generally good. Not sure he would have had such an extended run in the role if a fit Wood, Hargrave & Gilbee were available for selection.
He is ideal as the "spare man" to stem the tide when things are getting heavy for us as well.

[comrade]

The injuries to rebounding defenders could be a blessing in disguise - Hill's judgement and leap are real assets in the back half and his ball use is generally good. Not sure he would have had such an extended run in the role if a fit Wood, Hargrave & Gilbee were available for selection.
He is ideal as the "spare man" to stem the tide when things are getting heavy for us as well.

He has become a very important player. Thank Christ we kept him!

[The Pie Man]

The injuries to rebounding defenders could be a blessing in disguise - Hill's judgement and leap are real assets in the back half and his ball use is generally good. Not sure he would have had such an extended run in the role if a fit Wood, Hargrave & Gilbee were available for selection.
He is ideal as the "spare man" to stem the tide when things are getting heavy for us as well.


He has become a very important player. Thank Christ we kept him!

Agree - I feel that moving him away from being primarily a forward keeps him engaged in the contest, and makes better use of his motor. We can also see that he's still quite effective overhead when thrown forward in bursts (1st quarter vs Brisbane an example)

That deal with Hawthorn looked like it almost happened - very happy it didn't

[ReLoad]

That deal with Hawthorn looked like it almost happened - very happy it didn't

Speaking of which, why on earth did the hawks take Cameron Bruce? sheesh!

[Desipura]

Please tell me your joking

You think the leadership as it currently stands can take us further, I don't!
Eade has mentioned how certain players need to execute in big games, who do you think he is referring to?
I can't see how Gia can sacrifice his game and become more accountable to his opponent. This has been proven by his lack of form against more formidable opponents.
I would prefer to see Cross be used primarily as a tagged similar to a Cameron Ling type role.
Eade himself said Cross is not a clearance player, he is a wingman were the words he used to describe Cross.
How many wingman do you know that kick like Cross and lack pace?

I heard a whisper that Wallis may debut against Freo and that Gia may miss......time will tell

[ledge]

Minnows a cert I would think.

[Ghost Dog]

You think the leadership as it currently stands can take us further, I don't!
Eade has mentioned how certain players need to execute in big games, who do you think he is referring to?
I can't see how Gia can sacrifice his game and become more accountable to his opponent. This has been proven by his lack of form against more formidable opponents.
I would prefer to see Cross be used primarily as a tagged similar to a Cameron Ling type role.
Eade himself said Cross is not a clearance player, he is a wingman were the words he used to describe Cross.
How many wingman do you know that kick like Cross and lack pace?

I heard a whisper that Wallis may debut against Freo and that Gia may miss......time will tell

good points

[Before I Die]

Agree - I feel that moving him away from being primarily a forward keeps him engaged in the contest, and makes better use of his motor. We can also see that he's still quite effective overhead when thrown forward in bursts (1st quarter vs Brisbane an example)

That deal with Hawthorn looked like it almost happened - very happy it didn't

Still on our second line of goals scored, behind Big Bad Barry, despite playing primarily in defence.

[bornadog]

You think the leadership as it currently stands can take us further, I don't!
Eade has mentioned how certain players need to execute in big games, who do you think he is referring to?
I can't see how Gia can sacrifice his game and become more accountable to his opponent. This has been proven by his lack of form against more formidable opponents.
I would prefer to see Cross be used primarily as a tagged similar to a Cameron Ling type role.
Eade himself said Cross is not a clearance player, he is a wingman were the words he used to describe Cross.
How many wingman do you know that kick like Cross and lack pace?

I heard a whisper that Wallis may debut against Freo and that Gia may miss......time will tell

So you think we should get rid of Gia, Cross and Hargrave, because thats what you agreed to in the earlier post. I have to tell you we don't have anyone right now, this season, to replace these guys and do what they can do.

[Desipura]

So you think we should get rid of Gia, Cross and Hargrave, because thats what you agreed to in the earlier post. I have to tell you we don't have anyone right now, this season, to replace these guys and do what they can do.

I want to see Ward, Higgins, Cooney and Griffen to become leaders and show us the way true leaders perform in big games and hopefully take us to a grand final.

[jeemak]

I want to see Ward, Higgins, Cooney and Griffen to become leaders and show us the way true leaders perform in big games and hopefully take us to a grand final.

So do I. But that doesn't mean there isn't a spot for Gia, Cross and Hargrave.

[Desipura]

So do I. But that doesn't mean there isn't a spot for Gia, Cross and Hargrave.

I repeat we need every player to be more accountable and that means defensively applying pressure to your opponent wen he has the ball rather than expecting your teammate to cover for you. When you do not have the ability to play close to your opponent, its hard to expect others to cover and do your job, it requires a 100 per cent effort, Collingwood are the benchmark.

[LostDoggy]

I repeat we need every player to be more accountable and that means defensively applying pressure to your opponent wen he has the ball rather than expecting your teammate to cover for you. When you do not have the ability to play close to your opponent, its hard to expect others to cover and do your job, it requires a 100 per cent effort, Collingwood are the benchmark.

Our captain and a few others can be included in that group then. Don't see you mentioning his name so the scapegoats will do then.

[bornadog]

Our captain and a few others can be included in that group then. Don't see you mentioning his name so the scapegoats will do then.

That is my point too. The usual scapegoats in Gia and Hargrave and now Cross is starting to be put into that basket.

Lets face it we can find faults in every player but at the end of the day its a team sport and they have to all click together.

[LostDoggy]

I also doubt everyone at Collingwood is accountable, they have weaknesses too.

[The Coon Dog]

Sam Edmund from the Herald Sun has just tweeted what a few posters had already alluded to: Dogs vice-capt Daniel Giansiracusa almost certain to miss Freo clash after straining hammy at training last week.

[SlimPickens]

Sam Edmund from the Herald Sun has just tweeted what a few posters had already alluded to: Dogs vice-capt Daniel Giansiracusa almost certain to miss Freo clash after straining hammy at training last week.

just uploaded the link, Rocket to speak about it this morning.

[Desipura]

Our captain and a few others can be included in that group then. Don't see you mentioning his name so the scapegoats will do then.

I have mentioned our captain in previous threads, it is up to the coach to make him more accountable, unlike Cross & Gia, he has enough pace to be able to sacrifice his own game. He also uses his strong body to break away tackles very well which enables Cooney & Griffen to do what they do best, run with the ball. I cannot see his position in the team being at risk.

I can see Gia's position in the team being at risk as he can only play offensively which works well when he is given alot of the ball. He is unable to perform a lockdown role and is not a physical player in the Boydy mould.

Cross needs to be a total lockdown player, his ability to run all day and strong overhead mark could work for him against smaller opponents, just dont play him on the wing! He would be a good match up on someone like a Luke Ball, let them negate one another.
If he cannot perform this role, I do not know what real value he offers us.

I still think if Hargrave can regain his run of 2 years ago, there is a spot for him.
I do agree all players have their weaknesses, but these 2 players weaknesses standout for me.

[Mofra]

That is my point too. The usual scapegoats in Gia and Hargrave and now Cross is starting to be put into that basket.

Lets face it we can find faults in every player but at the end of the day its a team sport and they have to all click together.
True. Gia was in the top 6 for tackles last year but he gets put down for having a poor defensive ethos - in terms of running hard to zone up he is normally one of the better players.

Hall and Higgins were poor in this area last year, and I'm not sure how much the thyroiditis hindered him in 2010 but Higgins' off the ball running has improved markedly this year.
Hall is still relatively lazy on the turnover but he's an old school FF, unlikely to change and one of the few who will escape scrutiny regardless.

Cross may well be overtaken by other inside types (and Libba is surely way ahead of expectations thus far) but it looks unlikely to be this year is he's still running as hard as he does, especially with the sub rule.


Back to selections, I still think there is no match up for Markovic at Freo and someone needs to come in for him as well.

[comrade]

OUT: Markovic, Stack, Gia and Hudson
IN: Djerkurra, Addison, Wallis and Minson

I'd like to get Liam Jones back in somehow but can't see this week being the right time.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I have mentioned our captain in previous threads, it is up to the coach to make him more accountable, unlike Cross & Gia, he has enough pace to be able to sacrifice his own game. He also uses his strong body to break away tackles very well which enables Cooney & Griffen to do what they do best, run with the ball. I cannot see his position in the team being at risk.

I can see Gia's position in the team being at risk as he can only play offensively which works well when he is given alot of the ball. He is unable to perform a lockdown role and is not a physical player in the Boydy mould.

Cross needs to be a total lockdown player, his ability to run all day and strong overhead mark could work for him against smaller opponents, just dont play him on the wing! He would be a good match up on someone like a Luke Ball, let them negate one another.
If he cannot perform this role, I do not know what real value he offers us.

I still think if Hargrave can regain his run of 2 years ago, there is a spot for him.
I do agree all players have their weaknesses, but these 2 players weaknesses standout for me.

You do realise there's no such position as 'wing' anymore don't you? Robbie Flower and Keith Greig have retired.

Cross just stands on the side of the centre square when they bounce the ball, it's not the same.

[Sockeye Salmon]

In: Vespremi, Wallis, Addison
Out: Giansiracusa, Stack, Markovic

[SlimPickens]

In: Vespremi, Wallis, AddisonOut: Giansiracusa, Stack, Markovic

I generally like this although haven't heard or seen much of Addison over the last few weeks. Does his form warrant selection, or do you think it's more of a pure match up thing?

Also think Minson might come into calculations this week.

[Curly5]

I'd love to see Minson back in the side. Huddo hasn't been all that impressive so far this year, and apparently Big Will has been outstanding at Willy. Put him in, Rocket.

Mitch Wallis must be cherry ripe for selection ... or will we be saying this prior to every game? :confused: Could he take Gia's place? Or should we go for Djerrkura? Veszpremi is a bit of a risk and I'm not keen on Jones at this stage.

[Desipura]

You do realise there's no such position as 'wing' anymore don't you? Robbie Flower and Keith Greig have retired.

Cross just stands on the side of the centre square when they bounce the ball, it's not the same.
You might want to let Rocket know as well who referred to Crossy as a wingman.

[AndrewP6]

You might want to let Rocket know as well who referred to Crossy as a wingman.

Maybe he was talking about their arrangements for nights out on the town ;)

[ledge]

Out. Gia, Hudson, Stack
In Wallis, Minson, Vespremi.

[Desipura]

Out. Gia, Hudson, Stack
In Wallis, Minson, Vespremi.
I would not be disappointed with those ins, Veszpremi is the correct spelling.;)

[Bulldog Joe]

OUT: Markovic, Stack, Gia and Hudson
IN: Djerkurra, Addison, Wallis and Minson

I'd like to get Liam Jones back in somehow but can't see this week being the right time.

Despite my belief in Big Will, I don't think this is the week to bring him in.

Hudson has had a week off and his style is probably best suited to Sandilands.

I would like to see Will saved for the Collingwood game to play against Jolly. Will has always done pretty well against him and I would prefer a fresher player, who has not had a short break from Perth to play an important role against Collingwood.

With Gia missing does that open up the spot for Veszpremi to be tried.

[Mofra]

With Gia missing does that open up the spot for Veszpremi to be tried.
May depend on whether the MC think he's fit enough for the odd burst in the middle. Maybe Djekurra will come into calculations as well.
I'm expecting two changes.

[the banker]

Following on from MJP's excellent preview on a other thread. If Morris goes to Ballantyne, Picken to Fyfe, then doe we need Addison to go with Hill? Or would we run Picken with Hill and Addison with Fyfe.

The Pavlich midfield match up is a challenge.

OUT

[Desipura]

Following on from MJP's excellent preview on a other thread. If Morris goes to Ballantyne, Picken to Fyfe, then doe we need Addison to go with Hill? Or would we run Picken with Hill and Addison with Fyfe.

The Pavlich midfield match up is a challenge.

OUT
Addison wont be able to keep up with Hill

[comrade]

Despite my belief in Big Will, I don't think this is the week to bring him in.

Hudson has had a week off and his style is probably best suited to Sandilands.

I would like to see Will saved for the Collingwood game to play against Jolly. Will has always done pretty well against him and I would prefer a fresher player, who has not had a short break from Perth to play an important role against Collingwood.

With Gia missing does that open up the spot for Veszpremi to be tried.

Yep, you're right. I'm of the same belief and had a brain fade.

Huddo to bash up Sandilands and Will to come in against Jolly.

[Bulldog Joe]

Following on from MJP's excellent preview on a other thread. If Morris goes to Ballantyne, Picken to Fyfe, then doe we need Addison to go with Hill? Or would we run Picken with Hill and Addison with Fyfe.

The Pavlich midfield match up is a challenge.

OUT

Picken needs to go to Hill as he kept right out of it at Docklands last year.

While Fyfe looks a player, surely one of our nornal back 6 can do the job. I would be happy for Gilbee as he could really hurt offensively. Although if Addison was brought in he would be ideal to play on Fyfe.

Pavlich in the midfield can be taken by Cross who can keep running and is the best of our mids overhead. If not we would need to be looking at one of our defenders going everywhere with him and Morris would then be the man for the task.

When you look at the match ups it shows how we miss Hargrave or Wood, either of which would be expected to take Ballantyne.

[ledge]

just in
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/daniel-giansiracusa-to-miss-for-dogs/story-e6frf9jf-1226041967456

[mjp]

While Fyfe looks a player, surely one of our nornal back 6 can do the job. I would be happy for Gilbee as he could really hurt offensively. Although if Addison was brought in he would be ideal to play on Fyfe.


Who?

Fyfe is playing out of the centre square in case you haven't been watching.

[Ghost Dog]

Cross needs to be a total lockdown player, his ability to run all day and strong overhead mark could work for him against smaller opponents, just dont play him on the wing! He would be a good match up on someone like a Luke Ball, let them negate one another.
If he cannot perform this role, I do not know what real value he offers us.

.


I'd like to see him as a sub actually. I think he'd do well as a guy who will inject some physicality to get you over the line, late in a game.

[Bulldog Joe]

Who?

Fyfe is playing out of the centre square in case you haven't been watching.

Sorry MJP

I haven't managed to catch a Freo game in full and only saw snippets of the North game and he seemed to be around half forward in what I saw.

He does not look physically strong enough, but he is certainly showing better than his physical stature would have you believe.

It is hard to keep up with all the rotations.

[Bulldog Joe]

I'd like to see him as a sub actually. I think he'd do well as a guy who will inject some physicality to get you over the line, late in a game.

I would see Cross as the sub as a total waste.

His strength is the ability to keep going, rather than impact. It is why he consistently racks up possessions late in games. Boyd is similar.

The sub will probably evolve to be the next best runner after the 21 is chosen, or the player you pick in the 22 that may be borderline.

The idea of someone being a specialist as a sub is just not a concept I can embrace. I believe teams should be picking their best 22 and the sub would be no 22 of those, be it for fitness, form or ability.

Match ups could also be an influence.

[Rocco Jones]

I would see Cross as the sub as a total waste.

His strength is the ability to keep going, rather than impact. It is why he consistently racks up possessions late in games. Boyd is similar.

The sub will probably evolve to be the next best runner after the 21 is chosen, or the player you pick in the 22 that may be borderline.

The idea of someone being a specialist as a sub is just not a concept I can embrace. I believe teams should be picking their best 22 and the sub would be no 22 of those, be it for fitness, form or ability.

Match ups could also be an influence.

Totally agree with your comments, great post.

I think the specialist sub theory can end up being too clever by half. If they are that good, they probably should start.

Either way, the role seems suited to a sprinter type. Cross is clearly a marathon kind of guy. He is as unsuited to the role as it gets, as you mention, it would take away his greatest strength.

[BulldogBelle]

just in
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/daniel-giansiracusa-to-miss-for-dogs/story-e6frf9jf-1226041967456



At least Vezpremni, Gia, Williams and possibly Cross are all short term injuries

Gia- 1 week possibly
Williams- 1 week perhaps
Vezpremni- 1-3 weeks- assuming he can play with a broken finger (similar to Boyd last year playing with a broken hand)
Cross- will possibly play this week vs Freo


No need to panic

[Rocco Jones]

At least Vezpremni, Gia, Williams and possibly Cross are all short term injuries

Gia- 1 week possibly
Williams- 1 week perhaps
Vezpremni- 1-3 weeks- assuming he can play with a broken finger (similar to Boyd last year playing with a broken hand)
Cross- will possibly play this week vs Freo


No need to panic

It sounds like Williams and Cross will play to me. Journos obviously love enhancing a story and with Gia and Vez both out they are probably just looking for anyone who missed training to go with as big a number of outs as possible.

[Ghost Dog]

Totally agree with your comments, great post.

I think the specialist sub theory can end up being too clever by half. If they are that good, they probably should start.

Either way, the role seems suited to a sprinter type. Cross is clearly a marathon kind of guy. He is as unsuited to the role as it gets, as you mention, it would take away his greatest strength.

It's really his ability to get his hands on the ball that's his biggest strength.
Anyway, I see your point. this might draw a few scathing attacks, but what about Barlow?

[Remi Moses]

Gee talk about an over the top headline!
I'd pick Wallis for Gia,and how about those comments on the Hun website?
Gotta love the net just assures one how many **** wits there are out there!!!:rolleyes:

[Pickenitup]

Any one know what time we will Train on Friday

[AndrewP6]

Any one know what time we will Train on Friday

Website only has Sunday's session up...

[Greystache]

Any one know what time we will Train on Friday

9.30am I believe.

[Rocco Jones]

Anyway, I see your point. this might draw a few scathing attacks, but what about Barlow?

My belief that the sub needs to just about be in your best 22 anyway aside I think Barlow is similar to Cross in having endurance as a strength, so having him as a sub would be a waste.

[Ghost Dog]

My belief that the sub needs to just about be in your best 22 anyway aside I think Barlow is similar to Cross in having endurance as a strength, so having him as a sub would be a waste.

He's the fastest player at the club if my memory serves me correctly.
for mine, Addision would be a good Sub.