The First 3 weeks - where do we need to improve to be a real contender?

[bornadog]

The areas that stick out at this stage are the rucks, ie hitouts to advantage and the clearances, as well as forward pressure and tackling.

Players that need to improve or be more consistent are Cooney and Grant and the leaders need to stand up when it counts.

The next few weeks are going to be tough and we will know where we are at.

[LostDoggy]

Skills/execution/decision making were horrible yesterday and pretty bad the rest of the year. We also lacked players willing to take responsibility especially in front of goal.

[ledge]

I seriously think our centre square has the talent but our ruck doesnt find them enough,Hudson tends to knock it straight to ground and jump on it , thus his second efforts come up big.

I would like to see more power in his tap or knockout work, more Minson like where he hits it harder and wider out than just falling into the centre circle.
So many time I see us win the tap only for it to be stacks on at the rucks feet, making it just luck of the draw who gets it out.

Griffen and Cooney are great at running through but its no good if they are running into 4 tacklers because its too congested.
Take the gamble we have excellent outside mids, lets hit it out wider and give them more space.

[LostDoggy]

Ball delivery into the FWD line. Very ordinary.
It only seemed to improve a little when the (last two) games have been beyone doubt.
It's a shame too cause Barry seems to be in great form as far as making good body position or leads.

[ledge]

Higgins is the worst standing start shot at goal I have seen in ages.
We hear all the time teams saying they dont have enough time to practice goal kicking, well bugger me I would think kicking straight would be one of the most important part of winning games.

I noticed at training the other day we were practising it, maybe clubs are starting to realize, figures mentioned this year on tv have alluded to the fact how bad shots at goal are missing throughout the competition.

[AndrewP6]

Tackle pressure.
Skill execution (including goalkicking. A fundamental of the game, and players don't have time to practise it?)
Hitting targets.
Forward entries need to be better.

More beards. :)

[Dry Rot]

Ball delivery into the FWD line. Very ordinary.
It only seemed to improve a little when the (last two) games have been beyone doubt.
It's a shame too cause Barry seems to be in great form as far as making good body position or leads.



Forward entries need to be better.



Is it just the delivery or do we have no structure up forward?

[immortalmike]

Is it just the delivery or do we have no structure up forward?

Nah it was delivery. I was at both the Brisbane and GC games and our forwards were getting good separation on the lead and our mids (with the exception of Libba) would constantly kick over on on top of their heads.

[mjp]

We are a real contender.

[chef]

I would love for Minson to be given a chance as our number 1 ruck. Easily our best hit out to advantage ruck man.

[Greystache]

- 4 quarter effort
- Lift in defensive pressure
- More direct ball movement
- Players taking the responsibility of shooting for goal
- All players adhering to the defensive set up at all times.

[LostDoggy]

- 4 quarter effort
- Lift in defensive pressure
- More direct ball movement
- Players taking the responsibility of shooting for goal
- All players adhering to the defensive set up at all times.

I think Grant's role has to be clearer.. Is he a crumber or a hit-up forward, or both..? One thing is for sure, he isn't a great one-on-one mark when the defender can apply body contact. He was continually pushed under the ball by either Hunt or an eighteen year old yesterday (was it Coad?) I really like his attack once the ball hits the ground and applies great pressure / tackling but we kicked it on his head continually. Maybe he should be looking to get to feet of Hall, Roughead or even Higgins more rather than going for the power mark...

I appreciate he is still learning the caper and is improving each game but I just wonder who is instructing him to play as a power forward.. I get the feeling unfortunately that many of the turnovers we commit are when we kick to him in contested positions?

[the banker]

* We have the talent and depth to be there at the end
* We have the will and maturity as a Club.
* We have some exciting developing players - Libba, Roughead, Grant, Ward, Hill, (Wallis?)
* We have the skills but at times our by foot exceution is average even casual.
* We need to work on centre breaks. Minson and Roughead may be our combination as the year progresses. Cooney will improve with more fitness.
* Back set up with Brian yesterday looked great. Tommy really developing both defensively and attacking (How was that 70m pass to Grant), Murphy is in great form, Morris also looking good, we look strong.
* Forward structure is also good but may lack a sharp, goal kicking, strong tackling crumber. This may be a resting midfielder - Griffen, Cooney, Sherman.
* Yet to be seen if we can conquer a strong midfield (Collingwood) which drives a lot of forward entries and set up the forward press. Breaking through a strong structured Forward Press is our greatest challenge.
* Need to make tackles stick and bring the ball to a 50/50 in our forward half. Eliminate easy opposition defensive possessions.
* We wont be May premiers (Yippee)

[mjp]

* Forward structure is also good but may lack a sharp, goal kicking, strong tackling crumber. This may be a resting midfielder - Griffen, Cooney, Sherman.

I don't think it will be ONE resting mid, but a combination of the guys you have mentioned might get it done. Dalhaus played very well for Williamstown yesterday (vs Swans) and certainly looks a future candidate for that role.



* Yet to be seen if we can conquer a strong midfield (Collingwood) which drives a lot of forward entries and set up the forward press. Breaking through a strong structured Forward Press is our greatest challenge.


It actually isn't the press that worries me. It is our ability to mentally cope with the fact that Collingwood play a 'territorial' game and will no-doubt hold the ball inside their forward half for 60%+ of the game. Dealing with the restricted scoring chances - and maintaining a structure + energy that will allow us to score when the opportunity presents - is a huge challenge. Our mids, defenders and forwards will need to cope with the footy being inside our defensive 50m area for 5minutes at a time and then rather than sighing with relief when we cross the centre, actually break forward with the intent to score.

This is way harder than you think.

[LongWait]

I don't think it will be ONE resting mid, but a combination of the guys you have mentioned might get it done. Dalhaus played very well for Williamstown yesterday (vs Swans) and certainly looks a future candidate for that role.

I watched the game on Foxtel MJP and agree with you that Dalhaus played very well yesterday and has a real appetite for the contest. He should play seniors at some time in the next twelve months and would be a good candidate for the role of crumbing forward who can apply defensive pressure.

[EasternWest]

Skills/execution/decision making were horrible yesterday and pretty bad the rest of the year.

I agree with this. I can accept that under pressure etc it's harder to hit targets, but I've really noticed how many easy marks we drop and targets we miss by hand and foot. It's hard to gauge too much because the Lions and Suns were both pretty poor.

I'd say we want to improve our clearances also.

I think we need to improve in these areas particularly, but we realistically should be viewing ourselves as competitors, because we are.

[LostDoggy]

Kicking to the forwards was a bit of a problem yesterday as others have mentioned. Only Libba consistently kicks the ball appropriately to a forward, usually Bazza. keep up the good work Libba.

[KT31]

Kicking to the forwards was a bit of a problem yesterday as others have mentioned. Only Libba consistently kicks the ball appropriately to a forward, usually Bazza. keep up the good work Libba.

I think a bit of this will be eleviated with Brian and Gilbee in the side.
Gilbee's kicking and Lake will hang back allowing Murph to travel further afield.

[BulldogBelle]

Tackle pressure.
Skill execution (including goalkicking. A fundamental of the game, and players don't have time to practise it?)
Hitting targets.
Forward entries need to be better.

More beards. :)


If we could get this back to the level of 2/3 years ago would be great. Seems to be the main problem to me apart from the Essendon match where we got smashed in midfield

[choconmientay]

For the last 2 games, quite a lot of situations where we have the ball and the numbers (4 on 3) but could not worked out the overlap run and fumbled the ball in the end. Some other time, we didn't take the game on straight away and waited too long (20-30s) for the next kick into the 50 and when the kick does comes in, it goes either over the head, down the ground of our FF or 5 meters in front which makes it hard to mark & score.

- overlap run: take the game on and we need to get to Collingwood level or at least Essendon level.
- kicking into our 50: Bazza is not strong overhead mark, so we have to practice kicking to his advantage - straight into his chest (Libba to Bazza in the last quarter against GC should be showed to all our mids)
- goal kicking!

[Desipura]

Higgins is the worst standing start shot at goal I have seen in ages.
We hear all the time teams saying they dont have enough time to practice goal kicking, well bugger me I would think kicking straight would be one of the most important part of winning games.

I noticed at training the other day we were practising it, maybe clubs are starting to realize, figures mentioned this year on tv have alluded to the fact how bad shots at goal are missing throughout the competition.
Higgins was a deadeye 2 years ago. The only player at the time that I would want kicking for goal if it was to decide a game.

[Sedat]

I think Grant's role has to be clearer.. Is he a crumber or a hit-up forward, or both..? One thing is for sure, he isn't a great one-on-one mark when the defender can apply body contact. He was continually pushed under the ball by either Hunt or an eighteen year old yesterday (was it Coad?) I really like his attack once the ball hits the ground and applies great pressure / tackling but we kicked it on his head continually. Maybe he should be looking to get to feet of Hall, Roughead or even Higgins more rather than going for the power mark...

I appreciate he is still learning the caper and is improving each game but I just wonder who is instructing him to play as a power forward.. I get the feeling unfortunately that many of the turnovers we commit are when we kick to him in contested positions?
Coad is a mature aged recruit from SA - he is about 27yo.

Grant is a really interesting player to watch in action. He involves himself in many scoring thrusts for the team (he was credited with another bunch of score involvements on Saturday, which would have been more if a couple of them weren't sprayed OOF) but is almost too unselfish in his desire to bring his teammates into the play. You see his raw stats and think he has been just OK, but his mindset is almost completely team-oriented. I love watching his subtle taps to advantage, his body positioning in a contest to make sure the ball drop to our numerical advantage, and the like. Whilst I'd love to see him impact the scoreboard a little more I don't want to see him lose this team-first mindset. Having said that, if he does mark it inside 30 he should take responsibility to kick the goal.

[Maddog37]

Grant is also starting to get a bit of a strut about him and get in the face of the opposition at times. He really is an interesting character. Watch his "too cool for school" goal celebrations and his little "look at me" jog trots when he has a goal assist. Classic stuff.

Bottom line for me though is that he is playing like a crumbing rover in a key position body. It may never happen due to body type but I really want him to get in the gym and start taking those contested marks he was drafted for.

[always right]

Higgins was a deadeye 2 years ago. The only player at the time that I would want kicking for goal if it was to decide a game.

^^^^This.....although I wouldn't go back as far as that. No-one else in our team apart from Hall I want to see the ball in the hands of when shooting for goal.

Having said that, he really had the yips on Saturday and has been off target so far this year. I have faith he will come good as he has an excellent approach and kicking style.....and unlike some others, he wants to kick the goal himself.

[the banker]

Coad is a mature aged recruit from SA - he is about 27yo.

Grant is a really interesting player to watch in action. He involves himself in many scoring thrusts for the team (he was credited with another bunch of score involvements on Saturday, which would have been more if a couple of them weren't sprayed OOF) but is almost too unselfish in his desire to bring his teammates into the play. You see his raw stats and think he has been just OK, but his mindset is almost completely team-oriented. I love watching his subtle taps to advantage, his body positioning in a contest to make sure the ball drop to our numerical advantage, and the like. Whilst I'd love to see him impact the scoreboard a little more I don't want to see him lose this team-first mindset. Having said that, if he does mark it inside 30 he should take responsibility to kick the goal.

Agree. Still developing.

[stefoid]

Disposal under pressure (skills and decision making). We collectively lack the required composure. Until our midfield can deal with pressure, our scoring will continue to dry up against the top teams.

main offenders:

griffen
higgins
boyd
cooney (last 6 months)

On a bad day, these guys collectively waste 1/3 or more of their possessions, and since they can get 30 possessions each, thats a lot of ineffective disposal through our midfield.

Libba will help this issue. Sherman I dont think so on evidence so far.

[Dazza]

For mine... Our pressure up forward and around the middle. Our back 6 have done very well this season all things considered. Watching the pies the other night they were beaten more often than not when a one on one situation presented itself. So far our back six have held up under that sort of pressure this year but we get them into that situation far too often. When teams spread with pace on us we are basically done for.

I would have liked to see a new gameplan executed but I don't think that will happen this year.

I would also like to see cleaner use around the clearances. When we win the ball more often than not we will have 2-3 players standing right next to the ball winner for a handpass and not spreading. It seems other teams have better structures around the middle. Quite often we will win the ball and then turn it over almost straight away where other teams seem to break cleanly against us.

Finally the ball usage going into our forward 50. We've got a habit of bombing it on top of the leading players heads and not kicking to where they are running to this season. This could be fixed by playing Murphy up forward as a roaming flanker and possibly leaving Markovic down back. We need Murphs creativity down back though especially against the leading contenders who pressure so far up the field.

[LostDoggy]

We are a real contender.

Absolutely. 3 rounds in, we're not doing so bad. Not our fault we drew Brisbane and GC. No use going at 110% to belt either by 200 points and taking on injuries.


- 4 quarter effort
- Lift in defensive pressure
- More direct ball movement
- Players taking the responsibility of shooting for goal
- All players adhering to the defensive set up at all times.

I think the responsibility for goal is your best point here mate, agree with most of them, but I definitely don't want to see us play like Collingwood. We didn't build our team for that.

We need to get back that quick clearance—straight-up-the-middle—goal movement we had 1-2 years ago.


* We have the talent and depth to be there at the end
* We have the will and maturity as a Club.
* We have some exciting developing players - Libba, Roughead, Grant, Ward, Hill, (Wallis?)
* We have the skills but at times our by foot exceution is average even casual.
* We need to work on centre breaks. Minson and Roughead may be our combination as the year progresses. Cooney will improve with more fitness.
* Back set up with Brian yesterday looked great. Tommy really developing both defensively and attacking (How was that 70m pass to Grant), Murphy is in great form, Morris also looking good, we look strong.
* Forward structure is also good but may lack a sharp, goal kicking, strong tackling crumber. This may be a resting midfielder - Griffen, Cooney, Sherman.
* Yet to be seen if we can conquer a strong midfield (Collingwood) which drives a lot of forward entries and set up the forward press. Breaking through a strong structured Forward Press is our greatest challenge.
* Need to make tackles stick and bring the ball to a 50/50 in our forward half. Eliminate easy opposition defensive possessions.
* We wont be May premiers (Yippee)

This is a great post. Agree with everything. I thought Cooney looked very restricted in his movement, Tommy's pass was just brilliant, Sherman looked good but unfortunately not consistently enough.

Breaking the forward press is going to come down to a fit Lake, Gilbee and Hargrave, with Williams and Murphy driving the play through the HB line. If our mids can then execute cleanly and take the overhead marks, I can see us being VERY able to do this at year's end.

[ratsmac]

I am still of the belief that we are one gun midfielder away from being there at the end. This has been our problem for a couple of years. But with the rise of Callan Ward this year, he might be our missing piece of the puzzle. He has been good previous years but he seems to be fit and is hitting the contests harder this year. On a lesser note if Higgins can stay fit this year, he is a huge asset rotating through the forward line.
My only other concern this year is leg speed. We got cut up against the bombers Rnd1 and it was a lot to do with our leg speed. We were also our own worst enemy that day but leg speed was evident.
I'm loving what Roughy is doing so far, but I want to see what Minson is going to bring this year. I thought that he might have break out season like Jamar did last year. Time will tell I suppose. But on Roughy's form Minson may not get a look in.

[Ghost Dog]

I am still of the belief that we are one gun midfielder away from being there at the end. This has been our problem for a couple of years. But with the rise of Callan Ward this year, he might be our missing piece of the puzzle. He has been good previous years but he seems to be fit and is hitting the contests harder this year. On a lesser note if Higgins can stay fit this year, he is a huge asset rotating through the forward line.
My only other concern this year is leg speed. We got cut up against the bombers Rnd1 and it was a lot to do with our leg speed. We were also our own worst enemy that day but leg speed was evident.
I'm loving what Roughy is doing so far, but I want to see what Minson is going to bring this year. I thought that he might have break out season like Jamar did last year. Time will tell I suppose. But on Roughy's form Minson may not get a look in.

We need some Dahl power. Haus that is.

[Ghost Dog]

Coad is a mature aged recruit from SA - he is about 27yo.

Grant is a really interesting player to watch in action. He involves himself in many scoring thrusts for the team (he was credited with another bunch of score involvements on Saturday, which would have been more if a couple of them weren't sprayed OOF) but is almost too unselfish in his desire to bring his teammates into the play. You see his raw stats and think he has been just OK, but his mindset is almost completely team-oriented. I love watching his subtle taps to advantage, his body positioning in a contest to make sure the ball drop to our numerical advantage, and the like. Whilst I'd love to see him impact the scoreboard a little more I don't want to see him lose this team-first mindset. Having said that, if he does mark it inside 30 he should take responsibility to kick the goal.

The boy has strut. See him go back to take a kick? I like this.

[AndrewP6]

]The boy has strut. See him go back to take a kick[/B]? I like this.

I'd like him to translate that to the scoreboard.

[Ghost Dog]

[/B]
I'd like him to translate that to the scoreboard.

I'd like to paint him blue :D

[alwaysadog]

Higgins was a deadeye 2 years ago. The only player at the time that I would want kicking for goal if it was to decide a game.

Exactly what I was thinking and wondering why it had not been mentioned.

[LostDoggy]

The way we are playing we might scrape through Freo in a fortnight, have a bit of hype going into the Pies game. Then more likely then not, get spanked.

[LostDoggy]

The way we are playing we might scrape through Freo in a fortnight, have a bit of hype going into the Pies game. Then more likely then not, get spanked.

Yes, maybe. Rocket decided to go into this year with less miles in the legs and then build the season to a September peak. It was always going to be a slow start on that basis ad I don't think we'll know if we are a contender until round 12 or 13 when the Lake's/Cooney's etc get their match fitness happening. I'm not sure I agree with the strategy but I'll be patient at least knowing that Rocket has a plan. I agree the pies will probably get us on that basis but if we can turn the tables in September then it's been worth the pain yeah?

None of the above, however, justifies the crappy kicking into the forward line that's been endemic over the last couple of weeks. We need a bucketload of kicking drills before we try to smack up the purple people in WA.

[Ghost Dog]

Yes, maybe. Rocket decided to go into this year with less miles in the legs and then build the season to a September peak. It was always going to be a slow start on that basis ad I don't think we'll know if we are a contender until round 12 or 13 when the Lake's/Cooney's etc get their match fitness happening. I'm not sure I agree with the strategy but I'll be patient at least knowing that Rocket has a plan. I agree the pies will probably get us on that basis but if we can turn the tables in September then it's been worth the pain yeah?

None of the above, however, justifies the crappy kicking into the forward line that's been endemic over the last couple of weeks. We need a bucketload of kicking drills before we try to smack up the purple people in WA.

The key is keeping morale up after getting a slow start. But this group have great pride.
Listened on the radio to Nathan Eagleton, how Barry often contributes in the huddle. Between Boyd, Gia, Barry, we have some great leaders.

[Ghost Dog]

Yes, maybe. Rocket decided to go into this year with less miles in the legs and then build the season to a September peak. It was always going to be a slow start on that basis ad I don't think we'll know if we are a contender until round 12 or 13 when the Lake's/Cooney's etc get their match fitness happening. I'm not sure I agree with the strategy but I'll be patient at least knowing that Rocket has a plan. I agree the pies will probably get us on that basis but if we can turn the tables in September then it's been worth the pain yeah?

None of the above, however, justifies the crappy kicking into the forward line that's been endemic over the last couple of weeks. We need a bucketload of kicking drills before we try to smack up the purple people in WA.

The key is keeping morale up after getting a slow start v Essendon. But this group have great pride.
Listened on the radio to Nathan Eagleton, how Barry often contributes in the huddle. Between Boyd, Gia, Barry, we have some great leaders.

[LostDoggy]

With the disclaimer that I've watched only 4 quarters collectively this year, I think we only have to improve one thing to be right in the mix -- our hands. Lots of fumbling at ground level, dropping easy marks, sloppy pick-ups, hurried no-look handballs etc. allowing the oppositing time to close us down and rush our disposal or cherry pick the ball from our otherwise good work. Libba looks tidy, and Murph is always pretty clean, but everyone else seems just 5% off.

Fix this, and our skill level, hardness at the ball, speed and spread of talent will generally see us very competitive against anyone.

[Maddog37]

With the disclaimer that I've watched only 4 quarters collectively this year, I think we only have to improve one thing to be right in the mix -- our hands. Lots of fumbling at ground level, dropping easy marks, sloppy pick-ups, hurried no-look handballs etc. allowing the oppositing time to close us down and rush our disposal or cherry pick the ball from our otherwise good work. Libba looks tidy, and Murph is always pretty clean, but everyone else seems just 5% off.

Fix this, and our skill level, hardness at the ball, speed and spread of talent will generally see us very competitive against anyone.

That is spot on Lantern. I know we have talked clearances and their importance to scoring etc but for me watching the team play it is this exact issue that is hurting us. It stops our run and slowly deflates the confidence as well as deflating the crowd support. Not sure why this is an issue. maybe too much focus on structure and tactics and not enough on the basics at training. Many players seem to be thinking ahead about what they will do with the ball rather than making sure they mark it etc.

The bad part is that it will only get worse against the high pressure teams.