The Australian - article today on GWS & Ward

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Read an article in the Australian this morning, that seemed to indicate it was a fait accompli that Callan Ward would be with GWS next year. The article seemed to allude to him having already signed, drawing comparisons with Harbrow supposedly signing early on last year.
Gee I hope it ain't so.

[Ghost Dog]

Groan.....

[AndrewP6]

I hope so too, but I'm not at all optimistic. I have no proof, just a gut feel that it's a done deal.

[Remi Moses]

Fantastic if true! Funny how thePies seem to be able to keep their players.
Why on earth would anyone want to play or live there is beyond me!!

[Hotdog60]

The article from the Australian, LINK (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/blues-close-to-re-signing-marc-murphy/story-e6frg7mf-1226041818729)

While Murphy is unlikely to again be lured north, Western Bulldogs midfielder Callan Ward, who is under the same management as the Carlton star, is almost certain to be attracted by the 18th club.

The Bulldogs could lose their second player to the northern expansion clubs in consecutive years after Jarrod Harbrow defected to the Gold Coast late last year.

Harbrow is understood to have agreed to terms with the Suns during their "poaching" window at the end of 2009.

The Giants had poaching rights between September and early December last year for players coming out of contract at the end of the 2011 season, and will have a similar period this year to again secure players for their second season.

One club told The Australian yesterday it believed that four players had already agreed to terms with Greater Western Sydney.

Ward was the 19th player selected overall in the 2007 national draft and earned a rising star nomination in 2009.

Injuries limited him to just 10 games last year for a career total of 43 matches.

[Remi Moses]

If our year is shot (perish the mere thought)I don't want Ward in the side in fact I'd have him out the door ala Bock at Adelaide. Don't see the point of styming a young players development for a guy who has signed with another club! Just hope it isn't true

[BulldogBelle]

So he might get 20% more money at the GWS Jokers compared to the Bulldogs - 50% of that income will be eaten up by tax

He wont play in finals for 4-5 years

After GCs start to this season, i'm sure plenty of players will reconsider any potential move North....given they will be on the end of 80+ point defeats most weeks

And hey, if they want to live in the cosmopolitan capital of Australia, which Eddie called the Falafel capital of Australia - go for it

Doubt Callan would want to leave his family, and mates

Just some manufactured manure from Greg Denham and Patrick Smith

[AndrewP6]

Fantastic if true! Funny how thePies seem to be able to keep their players.
Why on earth would anyone want to play or live there is beyond me!!

Huh?

[the banker]

If our year is shot (perish the mere thought)I don't want Ward in the side in fact I'd have him out the door ala Bock at Adelaide. Don't see the point of styming a young players development for a guy who has signed with another club! Just hope it isn't true

Tend to agree with this. If Ward has signed I wouldn't be playing him. Bring Mitch Wallis in immediately.

[Remi Moses]

Huh?

Sarcasm Andrew

[AndrewP6]

Sarcasm Andrew

Sorry, missed it! I was distracted (that's my excuse anyway!):)

[LostDoggy]

The club needs to recognise Wards importance and make a statement. The guy is 50% guts and 50% class. He is a bulldog through and through. Do what it takes to keep him.

[AndrewP6]

The club needs to recognise Wards importance and make a statement. The guy is 50% guts and 50% class. He is a bulldog through and through. Do what it takes to keep him.

With GWS' big bank balance, and our big debt, I fear this could be very tough.

[LostDoggy]

And hey, if they want to live in the cosmopolitan capital of Australia, which Eddie called the Falafel capital of Australia - go for it



Doesn't have to live where he plays.
I doubt he lives in the suburb of Footscray at the minute?

[Dry Rot]

The club needs to recognise Wards importance and make a statement. The guy is 50% guts and 50% class. He is a bulldog through and through. Do what it takes to keep him.

Too late allegedly.

[Dry Rot]

If our year is shot (perish the mere thought)I don't want Ward in the side in fact I'd have him out the door ala Bock at Adelaide. Don't see the point of styming a young players development for a guy who has signed with another club! Just hope it isn't true

Absolutely disagree.

One, we're paying his salary, let him earn it.

Two, make him into a star, hopefully our compensation will be better.

Or will it?

[jeemak]

It was bloody easy to take a pragmatic approach to this type of situation in 2010 when Harbrow was "supposedly" gone. But, I think there's an argument that would suggest that through playing him we left ourselves a little bit short in development of those that might replace him.

I'm almost thinking we'd be better off taking the approach where an ultimatum is put forward to Ward. Either he needs to sign now, or he admits he's heading north and if he does neither, he doesn't play. Not saying we shouldn't play him if he comes clean, but we'd be in a better position to determine whether we can fast track the development of another young midfielder to replace him once he's gone. We need to protect ourselves, first and foremost.

I don't normally take much notice of what Denham writes, but there has been too much talk around Ward for my liking, and it feels very similar to the Harbrow situation of last year.

[AndrewP6]

Doesn't have to live where he plays.
I doubt he lives in the suburb of Footscray at the minute?

I doubt any of them do - I think Gia lives in Ivanhoe, and Bazz in Kew, to name a couple. You're right, I can't see many GWS recruits clamouring to live in Rooty Hill(no offense to friends of RH residents!)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It was bloody easy to take a pragmatic approach to this type of situation in 2010 when Harbrow was "supposedly" gone. But, I think there's an argument that would suggest that through playing him we left ourselves a little bit short in development of those that might replace him.

I'm almost thinking we'd be better off taking the approach where an ultimatum is put forward to Ward. Either he needs to sign now, or he admits he's heading north and if he does neither, he doesn't play. Not saying we shouldn't play him if he comes clean, but we'd be in a better position to determine whether we can fast track the development of another young midfielder to replace him once he's gone. We need to protect ourselves, first and foremost.

I don't normally take much notice of what Denham writes, but there has been too much talk around Ward for my liking, and it feels very similar to the Harbrow situation of last year.

This.

[LostDoggy]

Don't think the GWS fans would be able to accept that hair-do

[lemmon]

It was bloody easy to take a pragmatic approach to this type of situation in 2010 when Harbrow was "supposedly" gone. But, I think there's an argument that would suggest that through playing him we left ourselves a little bit short in development of those that might replace him.

I'm almost thinking we'd be better off taking the approach where an ultimatum is put forward to Ward. Either he needs to sign now, or he admits he's heading north and if he does neither, he doesn't play. Not saying we shouldn't play him if he comes clean, but we'd be in a better position to determine whether we can fast track the development of another young midfielder to replace him once he's gone. We need to protect ourselves, first and foremost.

I don't normally take much notice of what Denham writes, but there has been too much talk around Ward for my liking, and it feels very similar to the Harbrow situation of last year.

If we make an ultimatum as you have put forward, we could quite easily tip him over the edge and piss him off enough to sign with GWS. We cant be hasty, Wards a potential blue chip midfielder, would be a much bigger hole then what was left when Harbrow left.

[jeemak]

If we make an ultimatum as you have put forward, we could quite easily tip him over the edge and piss him off enough to sign with GWS. We cant be hasty, Wards a potential blue chip midfielder, would be a much bigger hole then what was left when Harbrow left.

I've considered that, and I agree that Ward is a genuine gun prospect. But, he isn't there yet and I would argue that we potentially have players in line that could add as much value as he does, particularly Wallis and Liberatore (albeit in a different, but equally important context). With Harbrow, there wasn't many players knocking down the door to fill that running HBF spot.

My issue is that we as supporters knew Harbrow was gone, and irrespective of what the coaching staff and club administration has said retrospectively they did as well.

I don't think we can afford to hold out on any young players maybe playing on, or maybe not. The game moves too quickly for that, and we need to make a player like Ward understand the position the club is in. If he's a reasonable person, with good management and good advice, he'd be provided with this insight to form part of his decision making process. If he's not, then we need to move on, as there's no point in putting time into a player that isn't going to be around for the long haul.

[Dry Rot]

I don't think we can afford to hold out on any young players maybe playing on, or maybe not. The game moves too quickly for that, and we need to make a player like Ward understand the position the club is in. If he's a reasonable person, with good management and good advice, he'd be provided with this insight to form part of his decision making process. If he's not, then we need to move on, as there's no point in putting time into a player that isn't going to be around for the long haul.

But if we reckon our window is still open and we have a chance for a flag, surely we need the best we can muster on the field?

[jazzadogs]

Don't think the GWS fans would be able to accept that hair-do
Who?

[jeemak]

But if we reckon our window is still open and we have a chance for a flag, surely we need the best we can muster on the field?

Yes, we do. I said in an earlier post we still need to consider whether he should be played or not. But we can still develop others in light of that. If Ward came clean and gauranteed the club he hasn't signed with GWS then we'd have to take his word on that.

I'm not saying we do full Don Corleone gun to the head stuff with him either, rather we need to manage the situation by making him see the point of view of the club. I'd think that if a player was blind to the clubs needs, nor willing to make an effort to understand them he's not likely to commit to the club on the field in his remaining tenure anyway.

The approach I'm suggesting would take very careful management, no doubt, but I think the stakes are too high for the situation not to be sorted out immediately. There was clear tension at Geelong last year due to Gary Jnr's position, but that was magnified and brought in to the spotlight because of his and the clubs profile. I'm certain the tension that existed between Mark Thompson and Gary Ablett would have been similar to that experienced between Eade and Harbrow.

[Dry Rot]

I like Ward and hope he stays. But what if he has already signed up with GWS?

Sadly it's the reality with the entry of new teams. If you were in his shoes, and were offered say a three year deal on excessive terms that he or his manager knew he couldn't get with us, what would you do?

[Remi Moses]

I like Ward and hope he stays. But what if he has already signed up with GWS?

Sadly it's the reality with the entry of new teams. If you were in his shoes, and were offered say a three year deal on excessive terms that he or his manager knew he couldn't get with us, what would you do?

Enough of this in his "shoes" rubbish! Facts are he's deserting his mates to play in an environment where they couldn't give a shag about the sport!!

[G-Mo77]

I like Ward and hope he stays. But what if he has already signed up with GWS?

Sadly it's the reality with the entry of new teams. If you were in his shoes, and were offered say a three year deal on excessive terms that he or his manager knew he couldn't get with us, what would you do?

Depends on how I got along with the group. If I was happy and the offer from my original team was adequate I'd stay, if I wasn't happy I'd go.

If Ward has signed elsewhere then F' him! Leave him in the VFL and play someone committed to the club. I couldn't care less about the compensation it's going to be stuff all anyway if last year is any guide!

All that being said it comes from a very unreliable source so nothing is set in stone yet.

[chef]

If we make an ultimatum as you have put forward, we could quite easily tip him over the edge and piss him off enough to sign with GWS. We cant be hasty, Wards a potential blue chip midfielder, would be a much bigger hole then what was left when Harbrow left.

I disagree with this. We had no decent young small defenders on our list to replace arguably one of the better small defenders in the league. We have Libba, Wallis and hopefully Reid when he gets his body right who could come in and replace Ward's position(not saying they are going to be as good) in the team. Inside mid fielders isn't a weakness on our list ATM.

[SlimPickens]

Doesn't have to live where he plays.
I doubt he lives in the suburb of Footscray at the minute?

Very true, Cal lives in Yarraville :p

[Bulldog4life]

Just as the Collingwood players Pendlebury, Thomas and initially Swan commented publicly on GWS's interest I would like Ward to do so too. I don't know whether Collingwood's influence made them do so but if that was the case I would like our administration to do likewise with Ward.
If we use Harbrow's initial silence as a guide it is not looking good.

[the banker]

Don't think the GWS fans would be able to accept that hair-do

Spending nearly half my week in Sydney for over 10 years, and having driven through GWS on numerous times, Cal will find it a brave new world. It will be like playing football on Mars. The hair-do will definitely set him apart - Culture Shock guaranteed. (Not that there's anything wrong with that):rolleyes:

His story would have been very good as a one team player - Doesn't he have Red White and Blue blood?

Scully, Ward these types of guys would be ill-advised to go IMO, it will retard their football development. This sort of gig suits more established players from clubs without premiership prospects.

[Curly5]

Spending nearly half my week in Sydney for over 10 years, and having driven through GWS on numerous times, Cal will find it a brave new world. It will be like playing football on Mars. The hair-do will definitely set him apart - Culture Shock guaranteed. (Not that there's anything wrong with that):rolleyes:

His story would have been very good as a one team player - Doesn't he have Red White and Blue blood?

Scully, Ward these types of guys would be ill-advised to go IMO, it will retard their football development. This sort of gig suits more established players from clubs without premiership prospects.

And yet, if the money they are offering is a lot more than he could ever earn with the Bulldogs, it's got to be in his head.

Agree about the development angle - but from what we see with GC, the experienced players are not thriving particularly well so far either. It's early days I know, but are they going to become better players in this team?

[ReLoad]

Goneski!

Just like we all knew with Harbrow I feel for the same situation here.

However there are significant differences:
Local kid, no links to "want to move home" as harbrow flung around.
Want to play finals in the next 5 years? or get smacked around each week? the GC has proved that its initial period is going to be tough.
Want to know every members name first hand? Then sure join the GWS. or do you want to play at a club with a heritage and story as good as anyone?

Collingcrap have through other means found ways to keep all their kids, through either close personal relationships, or the old classic "we will look after you" mentality. hence why pendlebury, swan, daisy etc will earn big money, but perhaps not immediately. I mean look at Luke Ball he is on 85k per year. the rest comes out of "marketing". We need to find ways to be just as competitive in this space.

Perhaps a good old chat with turtle may be all that is needed.

[Sockeye Salmon]

With free agency around the corner we can expect this to happen most years from now on.

The Adelaide teams had to accept that Adelaide - if you were not born and bred there - is a hole; and players will want to leave.

We also have to accept that to those not born into the Bulldogs breed, we to are not a desired destination and plenty will want out.

Why wouldn't you want to play with Essendon or Collingwood? You basically get to experience a grand final-like atmosphere every year whether you are any good or not. You will always pick up a bit extra in endorsments and you will certainly never want for anything that may make you a better player.

[Mofra]

Doesn't have to live where he plays.
I doubt he lives in the suburb of Footscray at the minute?
He did grow up in the Western Suburbs and still lives in Bulldog heartland though.

Harbrow left for many reasons other than money - his family, GF in Brissie, and climate (he hated Melbourne weather). He donated bone marrow to his brother so I assume the family bonds are close.

Ward is nothing like this - he is a local, played for the Jets, and most of friends and friends of the family are Bulldog supporters. His dad played for Yarraville; the whole family are entrenched in the West.

I hold no grudge against Harbrow, but would against Ward if he goes.

[Mofra]

I disagree with this. We had no decent young small defenders on our list to replace arguably one of the better small defenders in the league.
We will be hoping like crazy that Howard comes on, whilst Schofield could be the tough BP we need but will take time.

Agree with the sentiment though - Ward will be easier to replace than Harbrow. I just hope we don't get screwed with compensation if it comes to that.

[stefoid]

If Ward is in the best 22, you play him. Not playing him makes us perform worse this year, and also means we get less for him according to the AFLs shitty rues.

I am not completely sold on Ward anyway. He started with a bit of a bang because he can win a few hard balls and has good skills, but he gets caught a hell of a lot and Im not sure he will ever have the pace and poise to play the way he thinks he should be able to play. He plays a bit like Judd but without Judds acceleration and side step.

I reckon Libba is going to be the best young midfielder we have had at the club since coondog. The libba and wallis situation will soften the blow of ward leaving a huge amount, and if we can use what we get for ward to get a quick outside midfiedler who can actually use the ball under pressure, then it could be a win.

If he is going, that is.

[Maddog37]

I think Ward is a gun and would rather lose a Cross or Boyd.

If he leaves it will be because of money. I will be bitter and twisted especially as he signed my hat yesterday.

[bornadog]

He did grow up in the Western Suburbs and still lives in Bulldog heartland though.

Harbrow left for many reasons other than money - his family, GF in Brissie, and climate (he hated Melbourne weather). He donated bone marrow to his brother so I assume the family bonds are close.

Ward is nothing like this - he is a local, played for the Jets, and most of friends and friends of the family are Bulldog supporters. His dad played for Yarraville; the whole family are entrenched in the West.

I hold no grudge against Harbrow, but would against Ward if he goes.

In a National Competition I do hold a grudge against Harbrow and don't care about his excuses for leaving. We found him trained him nurtured him and off he went.

[Sedat]

I am genuinely worried that we might lose one of Wood or Ward, but the fact that Denham has penned the article provides me with a great source of comfort that Ward will stay. Andrew Swallow was 'gone no questions asked' by Denham and then proceeded to sign a contract renewal with North 24 hours later :rolleyes:

[lemmon]

I disagree with this. We had no decent young small defenders on our list to replace arguably one of the better small defenders in the league. We have Libba, Wallis and hopefully Reid when he gets his body right who could come in and replace Ward's position(not saying they are going to be as good) in the team. Inside mid fielders isn't a weakness on our list ATM.

Yeah I get your point but am more talking about there future career prospects in entirety rather then the current state of the list. I look at Ward being a future Lenny Hayes type, could be an absolute gun you could build a team around, while running half backs are a nice luxury they are ultimately peripheral players, they wont win you a big game, which is why I found it strange that Clayton would go after Harbrow and Krakour. If I were building a team to show some immediate results I would look at getting an experienced ruckmen, two solid key position backs, a solid key position forward and a couple of hard at it inside mids, ala Ward, you wouldnt mind playing kids on a half back flank or as an outside mid.

[LostDoggy]

Tend to agree with this. If Ward has signed I wouldn't be playing him. Bring Mitch Wallis in immediately.


But if we reckon our window is still open and we have a chance for a flag, surely we need the best we can muster on the field?

Agre with Dry Rot on this one. As long as he informs the club well before trade period so we can make arrangements to cover the loss, am happy with him announcing it when he's ready, and us playing him for as long as he's the best pick for his spot.


Enough of this in his "shoes" rubbish! Facts are he's deserting his mates to play in an environment where they couldn't give a shag about the sport!!


I like Ward and hope he stays. But what if he has already signed up with GWS?

Sadly it's the reality with the entry of new teams. If you were in his shoes, and were offered say a three year deal on excessive terms that he or his manager knew he couldn't get with us, what would you do?

Remi: His mates aren't going to fund his retirement. This overly-simplistic, tribal view doesn't pay heed to the fact that clubs won't be loyal to them, so why should the players be?

In terms of money, I would look at the percentages. If GWS offered me a particular percentage of their cap, I'd ask the Bulldogs to offer me the same percentage. That would be fair and equitable, especially since money is likely to be the only factor he'd be looking at. As others have said, it's not like he'd be moving home.


With free agency around the corner we can expect this to happen most years from now on.

The Adelaide teams had to accept that Adelaide - if you were not born and bred there - is a hole; and players will want to leave.

We also have to accept that to those not born into the Bulldogs breed, we to are not a desired destination and plenty will want out.

Why wouldn't you want to play with Essendon or Collingwood? You basically get to experience a grand final-like atmosphere every year whether you are any good or not. You will always pick up a bit extra in endorsments and you will certainly never want for anything that may make you a better player.

Why are we not a desired destination? I have only just moved to Footscray in January. But already I absolutely love the place. This area has to be FAR AND AWAY the most underestimated and undervalued region in Melbourne. Awesome food, great culture, very friendly neighbours, 15 minutes from the CBD… and for the players, 5 minutes from work. Much more expensive in Essendon or Collingwood.

[Mofra]

Awesome food, great culture, very friendly neighbours, 15 minutes from the CBD… and for the players, 5 minutes from work. Much more expensive in Essendon or Collingwood.
It's cheaper in Tullamarine or Coolaroo though - and think of the convenience of interstate games!

Going to be a hard sell for Essendon to sell their shithole of a home ground out in Drydust Estates to would be players. I assume they'll gloss over the location aspect when they pitch their club to prospective players.

[the banker]

If Ward is in the best 22, you play him. Not playing him makes us perform worse this year, and also means we get less for him according to the AFLs shitty rues.
I am not completely sold on Ward anyway. He started with a bit of a bang because he can win a few hard balls and has good skills, but he gets caught a hell of a lot and Im not sure he will ever have the pace and poise to play the way he thinks he should be able to play. He plays a bit like Judd but without Judds acceleration and side step.
I reckon Libba is going to be the best young midfielder we have had at the club since coondog. The libba and wallis situation will soften the blow of ward leaving a huge amount, and if we can use what we get for ward to get a quick outside midfiedler who can actually use the ball under pressure, then it could be a win.

If he is going, that is.



Not sure about this. Will journeyman players win you a flag? Swan, Pendlebury, and probably Thomas committing to the Pies early in the year gives the team culture great strength.

Agree with the assessment of where Ward is ATM. But he could be good.

[The Adelaide Connection]

With free agency around the corner we can expect this to happen most years from now on.

The Adelaide teams had to accept that Adelaide - if you were not born and bred there - is a hole; and players will want to leave.
We also have to accept that to those not born into the Bulldogs breed, we to are not a desired destination and plenty will want out.

Why wouldn't you want to play with Essendon or Collingwood? You basically get to experience a grand final-like atmosphere every year whether you are any good or not. You will always pick up a bit extra in endorsments and you will certainly never want for anything that may make you a better player.

I actually take a little offence to that as I live in and love Adelaide. I have travelled through 35 countries and lived in three too, so it is not a case of not knowing better.

I think you could have made your point equally as well by saying "there are a lot of players that would rather return home, with numerous clubs as options".

I am quite happy for you to have an opinion, but I think it is very "5 years old" to say something sucks without giving any reasons why and, not that I don't think you have your reasons, we wouldn't want to get in trouble for derailing the thread would we? ;)

[The Adelaide Connection]

Funny how thePies seem to be able to keep their players.


I think we need to consider that if deals were done at the end of last year Collingwood players would be on a huge buzz whilst ours had hit rock bottom again. It would be the perfect time to stick a contract under his nose that offered big $$$ with no Gold Coast results (as yet) to spoil the allure of a club made up of young champions.

Secondly if anyone thinks we can match the financial muscle and extra-curriculur earnings that Collingwood can offer they are dreaming. I am not saying they are the Melbourne Storm but my guess is they are not far off, albeit finding ways to do it "above board".

The AFL are an ignorant mob and really only look at short term gains. Their fixturing, preferential treatment, etc. will ensure that the rich get richer and the gap becomes monstrous. I fear for what the league will look like in 20 years.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I actually take a little offence to that as I live in and love Adelaide. I have travelled through 35 countries and lived in three too, so it is not a case of not knowing better.

I think you could have made your point equally as well by saying "there are a lot of players that would rather return home, with numerous clubs as options".

I am quite happy for you to have an opinion, but I think it is very "5 years old" to say something sucks without giving any reasons why and, not that I don't think you have your reasons, we wouldn't want to get in trouble for derailing the thread would we? ;)

This is my point precisely.

I lived in Adelaide for 3 years and I'm sure that those of you who were born there love it; but those of us who weren't, don't. That might offend you but it's reality.

Whether we like it or not, our footy club is in exactly the same position. We love it, but those not brought up loving it mostly would prefer to be somewhere else.

If you could survey all the prospective draftees about where they would like to go about 3% would say us (from memory, I think about 3% of footy followers barrack for WB).

Those from interstate might like to stay at home and those who are borderline about getting drafted at all won't care. Everyone else - including our 1st rounder whoever he might be - would rather be with a Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton or Hawthorn.

That doesn't mean everyone we draft will shoot through first chance they get, but some will walk. We will lose some interstate and we will lose a few to bigger clubs. I'm sure we will get many fewer in return.

Getting uppity about it won't help. It's real.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Getting uppity about it won't help. It's real.

I do actually agree with most of what you are saying and especially the part about those looking from the outside in not necessarily having the best impression of Adelaide (and similarly our footy club). But that doesn't make them right or wrong, and it doesn't really give them the right to label something that someone else cares about/has an emotional attachment to as shite.

Defending Adelaide is not my objection (and to use footy parlance it would be like trying to sell our club on the Collingwood board). Convincing you is also not my objection, I certainly won't lose sleep about how you feel about it either way. I know plenty of people that have moved to Adelaide that feel very differently to you, but you know what? Even if I didn't I still wouldn't care.

Your posts are usually articulate and insightful and I enjoy reading them but in this case I think your wording just missed the mark.

[LostDoggy]

This is my point precisely.

I lived in Adelaide for 3 years and I'm sure that those of you who were born there love it; but those of us who weren't, don't. That might offend you but it's reality.

Whether we like it or not, our footy club is in exactly the same position. We love it, but those not brought up loving it mostly would prefer to be somewhere else.

If you could survey all the prospective draftees about where they would like to go about 3% would say us (from memory, I think about 3% of footy followers barrack for WB).

Those from interstate might like to stay at home and those who are borderline about getting drafted at all won't care. Everyone else - including our 1st rounder whoever he might be - would rather be with a Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton or Hawthorn.

That doesn't mean everyone we draft will shoot through first chance they get, but some will walk. We will lose some interstate and we will lose a few to bigger clubs. I'm sure we will get many fewer in return.

Getting uppity about it won't help. It's real.

I think this was an issue for the Dogs in years gone by, but nowadays players do want to come and play at our club. Our culture is improved, our facilities are top-notch, whilst we don't yet compete with the likes of Collingwood, I think we can still offer players something.

[stefoid]

In a National Competition I do hold a grudge against Harbrow and don't care about his excuses for leaving. We found him trained him nurtured him and off he went.

Clayton found him and he went with Clayton so...

[Remi Moses]

Disagree Born a scraggier, some people are loyal to their friends and family.
If a footballer is thinking of his retirement nest egg in his 20's I'd be staggered.
Thirdly a lot of people don't leave their place of employment for more money,as a majority are happy in their own environment. Generation what's in it for "me"

[Remi Moses]

This is my point precisely.

I lived in Adelaide for 3 years and I'm sure that those of you who were born there love it; but those of us who weren't, don't. That might offend you but it's reality.

Whether we like it or not, our footy club is in exactly the same position. We love it, but those not brought up loving it mostly would prefer to be somewhere else.

If you could survey all the prospective draftees about where they would like to go about 3% would say us (from memory, I think about 3% of footy followers barrack for WB).

Those from interstate might like to stay at home and those who are borderline about getting drafted at all won't care. Everyone else - including our 1st rounder whoever he might be - would rather be with a Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton or Hawthorn.

That doesn't mean everyone we draft will shoot through first chance they get, but some will walk. We will lose some interstate and we will lose a few to bigger clubs. I'm sure we will get many fewer in return.

Getting uppity about it won't help. It's real.
1970's post . Perhaps with Kelvin could be classified a 1980's post ,for every wigan there's a manchester united. For every new York Yankees there's a tampa Bay rays,I'd hazard to guess not every player wants the scutiny that goes with playing for the big boys.

[Pedro Sanchez]

Don't reckon he'll go... Just a media beat up to deflect attention from the catastrophe that is the Gold Coast. GWS is version 2 in waiting.

My thoughts, Ward to be Doggies skipper within 3 years and play 250 games for the club.

[Remi Moses]

Don't reckon he'll go... Just a media beat up to deflect attention from the catastrophe that is the Gold Coast. GWS is version 2 in waiting.

My thoughts, Ward to be Doggies skipper within 3 years and play 250 games for the club.

Hope you're right Pedro . Article's written by Denim and lace are generally full of fallacy.
I know callan's best mate is a mad dog fan and I hope he talks some sense into the guy

[jeemak]

[QUOTE=Remi Moses;209148]Disagree Born a scraggier, some people are loyal to their friends and family.
If a footballer is thinking of his retirement nest egg in his 20's I'd be staggered.
Thirdly a lot of people don't leave their place of employment for more money,as a majority are happy in their own environment. [B]Generation what's in it for "me"[QUOTE]

What do baby boomers have to do with it? :p

[Evel]

Hi all,

New poster to this forum, glad I found another bunch of passionate Dogs supporters to chat too.

I heard Denham on SEN the other day underrating Griffen and history shows the guy has no love of the Dogs, in fact he appears to enjoy having a crack at us when he can. Can't remember when I last heard him say anything positive about the club, but I don't read the Australian all that often. If he says Ward's gone, I'll wait for another source thanks.

Problem is the club don't talk about player contracts so we have no idea if negotiations are taking place or if he's manager has said to wait until year end. If it's the second scenario I fear he's gone as required players are generally signed up well before season's end (Lake a noteable exception). I hope by mid season he's signed up and we can forget about the whole issue.

I agree with an earlier poster that if you hadn't supported the Dogs and you were a draftee you would probably prefer to go to a big Victorian club because of the blockbuster games etc, however I think the gap between us and the historically more successful clubs has closed. Quality players have been willing to come to the Dogs in Aker, Hall and Sherman, say what you like about the reasons for their leaving, but they chose the Dogs believing we had the culture, stability and support available. It shows that we're not considered a bad option anymore even if we're not number 1 in desired clubs. I don't think that players would cringe at the thought of coming to the Dogs as they would have in the past.

Sorry for such a lengthy post, look forward to talking to you all in the future.

[Flamethrower]

For some reason all of Paul Connor's out of contract clients are being linked with GWS - including Cal, Marc Murphy and Dale Thomas. Murphy and Thomas have both indicated that they want to re-sign with their clubs before the season is over, and it wouldn't surprise if Cal does likewise.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Hi all,

New poster to this forum, glad I found another bunch of passionate Dogs supporters to chat too.

I heard Denham on SEN the other day underrating Griffen and history shows the guy has no love of the Dogs, in fact he appears to enjoy having a crack at us when he can. Can't remember when I last heard him say anything positive about the club, but I don't read the Australian all that often. If he says Ward's gone, I'll wait for another source thanks.

Problem is the club don't talk about player contracts so we have no idea if negotiations are taking place or if he's manager has said to wait until year end. If it's the second scenario I fear he's gone as required players are generally signed up well before season's end (Lake a noteable exception). I hope by mid season he's signed up and we can forget about the whole issue.

I agree with an earlier poster that if you hadn't supported the Dogs and you were a draftee you would probably prefer to go to a big Victorian club because of the blockbuster games etc, however I think the gap between us and the historically more successful clubs has closed. Quality players have been willing to come to the Dogs in Aker, Hall and Sherman, say what you like about the reasons for their leaving, but they chose the Dogs believing we had the culture, stability and support available. It shows that we're not considered a bad option anymore even if we're not number 1 in desired clubs. I don't think that players would cringe at the thought of coming to the Dogs as they would have in the past.

Sorry for such a lengthy post, look forward to talking to you all in the future.

Welcome Evel, nice first post.
I think Hall and Aker were unique, givne both of their circumstances and age. That is not too many were chasing them due to their problems perceived or otherwise, plus at their age there were really going to be a handful of clubs that would've been into them - specifically those who were seen as being close to a flag.
It would be interesting to see how we would go attracting players say were we seen as a mid table side either on the way up or on the slide. I guess the same could be said for most sides. However the larger clubs whether they are up the top or down the bottom still seem to be able to attract guys, eg Judd to a woeful and rebuilding Carlton.

I thought I had heard (and I could be wrong) that Ward's manager had said no contract negotations until the end of the year. All of his other clients have at least made verbal comment that they want to stay where they are, Ward on the other hand hasn't said anything. His silence concerns me. I mean he hasn't even said 'I would like to remain with the Dogs but we will see how contract talks proceed.'

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

For some reason all of Paul Connor's out of contract clients are being linked with GWS - including Cal, Marc Murphy and Dale Thomas. Murphy and Thomas have both indicated that they want to re-sign with their clubs before the season is over, and it wouldn't surprise if Cal does likewise.

That's the thing though, all of his other clients have already taken the initiative to publically state their desire to stay where they are. Callan hasn't said a thing.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I thought I had heard (and I could be wrong) that Ward's manager had said no contract negotations until the end of the year. All of his other clients have at least made verbal comment that they want to stay where they are, Ward on the other hand hasn't said anything. His silence concerns me. I mean he hasn't even said 'I would like to remain with the Dogs but we will see how contract talks proceed.'

That said, the next time Cal Wards says something to the media it will be the first

I hope he stays but will move on if he doesn't.

Cal has a long way to go as a player - I dont think he's produced a 4 quarter performance yet.

[Topdog]

That's the thing though, all of his other clients have already taken the initiative to publically state their desire to stay where they are. Callan hasn't said a thing.

When is Cal in the media though? The others get interviewed every week.

[LostDoggy]

Don't think the GWS fans would be able to accept that hair-do

He may have to turn it into a Mohawk and lose some teeth and get heaps of Tatts :rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

That said, the next time Cal Wards says something to the media it will be the first

I hope he stays but will move on if he doesn't.

Cal has a long way to go as a player - I dont think he's produced a 4 quarter performance yet.

how about last year's prelim? Underdone and stood up in a big game and still learning the caper.. Big call as some of the more established players have failed to play 4 quarters in big games

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

When is Cal in the media though? The others get interviewed every week.

True but given his name is being bandied around as a cert for the GWS team, I'm positive a media release from him (via his manager) sent to the media would be picked by them up given their interest in writing articles with a GWS narrative at the moment

[Topdog]

I've only seen his name mentioned on one paper and it is a completely irrelevant paper in the Victorian football community.

I would like him to say he isn't going anywhere obviously but I feel the bashing he has gotten already (not you) is completely unjustified.

[Ghost Dog]

how about last year's prelim? Underdone and stood up in a big game and still learning the caper.. Big call as some of the more established players have failed to play 4 quarters in big games

Like

[LostDoggy]

When is Cal in the media though? The others get interviewed every week.

Nothing heard from Pendles either! Hope he goes running after the cash.

[The Underdog]

Nothing heard from Pendles either! Hope he goes running after the cash.

He can stay home and get the cash.
I'd be staggered if he or Thomas go.

Ward however, I wouldn't be so staggered. I think it would be a massive mistake but it won't surprise me.
On a side topic it's good to see J. Harbrow's form has been terrible so far this season. I think he misses us as much as we miss him.

[chef]

He can stay home and get the cash.
I'd be staggered if he or Thomas go.

Ward however, I wouldn't be so staggered. I think it would be a massive mistake but it won't surprise me.
On a side topic it's good to see J. Harbrow's form has been terrible so far this season. I think he misses us as much as we miss him.

It must be alot harder to play in a defence that doesn't include Lake, Williams, Morris, Murphy, Hargrave etc etc.

[FrediKanoute]

Money aside, I think any player, playing in a side which is competing for a flag in the next 3 to 5 years is crazy to contemplate a move to a side like GWS. Yes it will be set up differently, but talk to the guys who went to the Bears and then Freo abount how long it takes for a side to actually become competitive.

Ward will spend the next 4 to 5 years playing in a side that wins a handful of games. Once their kids are settled and start to produce they will begine winning more games and eventually play finals year 5 to 8. By that time Cal will be a broken player having had to soak up much of the physical stuff whcih he just wouldn't have to cope with at the doggies, because there would always be a bigger body to help out, or someone else to rotate through the middle.

Yes he will have been well set up financially from moving, but ask guys like Doug Hawkins, Stevie Wallis, Brian ROyal what it slike to play week in weeek out for a team whcih is hopeless!

[FrediKanoute]

It must be alot harder to play in a defence that doesn't include Lake, Williams, Morris, Murphy, Hargrave etc etc.

Exactly. Guys like Harbrow are good players, because they have guys like Morris, Williams, Hargrave etc allowing them to play the dashing role, the run off half back. Harbrow still does that, its just that now he has less opportunity to do so and when he does surge forward the risk of it coming back at a rate of knots increases 10 fold becasue his team mates are so inexperienced......that said good win by GC. They will win a couple more this year. Reckon Brissy could be a scalp!.

[Prince Imperial]

Yes he will have been well set up financially from moving, but ask guys like Doug Hawkins, Stevie Wallis, Brian ROyal what it slike to play week in weeek out for a team whcih is hopeless!

Doug's first few years at the club (including the diabolical Hart years) could be descriped as playing for a "hopeless" team. However, neither Wallis or Royal who both started in 1983 were part of teams which could generally be described as "hopeless". For most of their years we were a middle ranking team who just missed out on making the finals. 1989 was an obvious exception whilst Wallis' last year (1996) would also have fitted that bill.

[The Underdog]

Yes he will have been well set up financially from moving, but ask guys like Doug Hawkins, Stevie Wallis, Brian ROyal what it slike to play week in weeek out for a team whcih is hopeless!

He could probably just ask any teammate who played in 03-04.

[FrediKanoute]

Doug's first few years at the club (including the diabolical Hart years) could be descriped as playing for a "hopeless" team. However, neither Wallis or Royal who both started in 1983 were part of teams which could generally be described as "hopeless". For most of their years we were a middle ranking team who just missed out on making the finals. 1989 was an obvious exception whilst Wallis' last year (1996) would also have fitted that bill.

1985
1992
1994
1995

These were the only years in Dougie's, Wally's and Choco's career's that the Doggies made the finals.

During that time we also finished near the bottom in 1983, 1984, 1989 & 1996. By today's standards we were non-competitive and not the club that players wanted to play for.

The point I'm making though is that a guy like Cal who probably has 10 years left in the game will spend much of that not playing final footy if he goes to GWS and is likely to have his career shortened and be surplus to the teams requirments once they do come good. If he wants to go fo the money great, but I'll spew if he comes out and says things like "its a great opportunity" or "I'm excited by the challenges ahead".

[Prince Imperial]

During that time we also finished near the bottom in 1983, 1984,

Actually we finished 7th in both years and in 1984 were defeated by Collingwood at Vic Park in the last round to just miss the finals. We're really just arguing over the meaning of "hopeless" and I suppose I reserve that term for the Hart, Rhode and 89 and 96 years!

[LostDoggy]

This is my point precisely.

I lived in Adelaide for 3 years and I'm sure that those of you who were born there love it; but those of us who weren't, don't. That might offend you but it's reality.

Those from interstate might like to stay at home and those who are borderline about getting drafted at all won't care. Everyone else - including our 1st rounder whoever he might be - would rather be with a Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton or Hawthorn.

Getting uppity about it won't help. It's real.

I don't think this is true. I come from a small town, and one of my mates has been drafted and played his second game for Adelaide last night. He loves it over there, probably because he has never lived in a big city like Melbourne, so doesn't have a 'Melbourne' to compare it to.
He's got himself a gorgeous girlfriend from S.A, new mates and he's living out his dream of playing AFL. Not everyone gives a crap about playing for one of the big teams. Some people are comfortable with the Adelaides and Brisbanes and Perths.

Of course, I may have completely just missed the point.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I don't think this is true. I come from a small town, and one of my mates has been drafted and played his second game for Adelaide last night. He loves it over there, probably because he has never lived in a big city like Melbourne, so doesn't have a 'Melbourne' to compare it to.
He's got himself a gorgeous girlfriend from S.A, new mates and he's living out his dream of playing AFL. Not everyone gives a crap about playing for one of the big teams. Some people are comfortable with the Adelaides and Brisbanes and Perths.

Of course, I may have completely just missed the point.

That's fair enough, most players will stay, but a lot won't and whether we like it or not we will be on the wrong side of the ledger

[Bulldog Revolution]

how about last year's prelim? Underdone and stood up in a big game and still learning the caper.. Big call as some of the more established players have failed to play 4 quarters in big games

Fair enough I was probably too harsh, that was his best game for the club

I guess probably what Im saying is that he still hasn't learnt to have a consistently high level input each week

Every part of me wants Ward to stay - but my opinion will not be sought ;(

[LostDoggy]

I thought I had heard (and I could be wrong) that Ward's manager had said no contract negotations until the end of the year. All of his other clients have at least made verbal comment that they want to stay where they are, Ward on the other hand hasn't said anything. His silence concerns me. I mean he hasn't even said 'I would like to remain with the Dogs but we will see how contract talks proceed.'

Yep, I have similar concerns Yankee. I just hope our club can strategically utilise his loss to GWS to get a good return with good draft selections/trades.

I have great fears for any player that delays contract talks to the end of the year. This usually means they are going ... ala Harbrow/Ablett/Brown.

[Maddog37]

Interesting in the sun today that Marc Murphy has gone cold on talks again.

[azabob]

Interesting in the sun today that Marc Murphy has gone cold on talks again.

Good. Interesting though considering he turned down a big dollar contact at Brisbane when he was an eligible father son as he either wanted to remain close to family and or play at a big Melbourne club.

[LostDoggy]

That's fair enough, most players will stay, but a lot won't and whether we like it or not we will be on the wrong side of the ledger

True. Unfortunately.

[Happy Days]

Not sure where to put this, but Gilbert McAdam just said on the Mangrook Footy Show that Danyle Pearce has already signed with the GWS.

Any weight?