Round #9 Match Committee

[GVGjr]

If you were on the Match Committee who would the likely ins and outs for the round 9 away game against the West Coast Eagles at Patterson Stadium.

[GVGjr]

Should be a good game, any changes?

[Hotdog60]

Cooney is a conern and he must be using up some free passes, I think no changes and let the team settle and see if it can continue.

But in saying that Hall should be back and also Higgins.

[comrade]

But in saying that Hall should be back and also Higgins.

We looked dangerous with Gilbee, Jones, Grant and Minson all presenting. When Hall comes back, I hope we remember to find other targets.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

If Hall comes back this week, who goes out? Can we take a forward line of Hall, Grant & Jones over to play the West Coast?
With Higgins 'groin' issues, is he likely to come straight in for a trip to the west, or would it be better for him to stay and play a week with Willy and hopefully get some impetus coming into the following week's game against Geelong.

I'm just concerned that the long trip with his groin, could be a problem.

On the other hand it is going to be a very very tough game over in the West and we need all of our best playing.

Some headaches for the selection committee this week if both of them present as fit for consideration.

I have no idea at the moment what the correct course of action is, hence all I've done is ask a series of questions here.

[comrade]

If Hall comes back this week, who goes out? Can we take a forward line of Hall, Grant & Jones over to play the West Coast?
With Higgins 'groin' issues, is he likely to come straight in for a trip to the west, or would it be better for him to stay and play a week with Willy and hopefully get some impetus coming into the following week's game against Geelong.

I'm just concerned that the long trip with his groin, could be a problem.

On the other hand it is going to be a very very tough game over in the West and we need all of our best playing.

Some headaches for the selection committee this week if both of them present as fit for consideration.

I have no idea at the moment what the correct course of action is, hence all I've done is ask a series of questions here.

I'd be inclined to keep Hall on ice for one more week.

[boydogs]

Sherman, Stack and Hill on the chopping block IMO, but they are all better suited to the Perth ground. Leave things alone unless someone is 100% ready for the big Perth trip.

[azabob]

No change unless Williams is ready to come back. Who should miss? I'm not sure perhaps Moles or Hill.

[The Coon Dog]

If Hudson misses courtesy of the MRP then Roughy probably comes in.

[AndrewP6]

If Hudson misses courtesy of the MRP then Roughy probably comes in.

Surely he won't miss, didn't seem that bad on TV.

[boydogs]

If Hudson misses courtesy of the MRP then Roughy probably comes in.

Should be OK IMO

[bornadog]

Out moles
In higgins

[GVGjr]

West Coast somehow defy the notion that you can't be overly tall and play Cox, Natanui, Lynch and Kennedy. Is this something that we need to plan for?

[Mofra]

If Hudson misses courtesy of the MRP then Roughy probably comes in.
Big ground and an extra runner would be handy, would we chance the one ruckman and rely on Hall/Jones to pinch hit for a few minutes each quarter?
Would be a brave call after the round 1 debarcle but Minson looks in form.

[LostDoggy]

In: Higgins

Out: Stack

Leave Barry until he's 100%. Anyone know where Veszpremi's at??

[Rocco Jones]

West Coast somehow defy the notion that you can't be overly tall and play Cox, Natanui, Lynch and Kennedy. Is this something that we need to plan for?

I definitely believe we need to. Darling is another tall forward and Lecras needs one of our tall smalls, I would go with Morris. So that's Lynch, Kennedy and Darling as 3 genuine tall forward targets, Lecras and a resting ruck at times. Markovic takes one tall and Shaggy will have to play tall again as well, that still leaves at least one more spot for a tall defensive option.

If Williams and Lake both aren't right to play, I think we simply have to play Mulligan. Higgins in too if he is fit.

I think we should leave Hall at home even if he is fit, let him have a run around at Willy. I don't like his chances coming back from injury, taking the long flight and playing on a big ground. I also really liked how we used multiple options today and think Jones will suit Subi.

So, my stab at ins and outs.

IN: Mulligan/Williams, Higgins (if fit)
OUT: Moles, Hill (if Higgins is in)

If Hill is to play, I think we should give him a crack as the sub.

Despite their super tall forward line, the Eagles are just about setting the benchmark for forward pressure. I'm worried it inducing a few Stack critical errors but think we need to play him.

A terrible time to have Williams, Lake and Wood out/in doubt.

[MrMahatma]

Hill & Stack worry me. Neither look like they actualy WANT the ball.

How far off is Wood? Will he be back at Willi in the next couple?

[Desipura]

In Williams, Roughy and Higgins
Out Markovic, Huddo suspended and Hill

Stack's hands are a worry, fumbles too much. Is only in the team until Wood gets fit enough to play

[Rocco Jones]

Big ground and an extra runner would be handy, would we chance the one ruckman and rely on Hall/Jones to pinch hit for a few minutes each quarter?
Would be a brave call after the round 1 debarcle but Minson looks in form.

If anyone has paid attention to my posts about the 2nd ruck role they would know I am heavily in favour of going in with a part timer but even I was impressed with the Dinorucks today.

Cox and NicNat give them 2 quality rucks and I think our ruck depth will be more important than usual. I like Jones' game today and think we should give him time to develop into the forward role first and I would see the part time ruck role as breaking his momentum. I also don't think we should take Hall to Subi. Long trip + Coming off injury + Big ground.

[Rocco Jones]

In Williams, Roughy and Higgins
Out Markovic, Huddo suspended and Hill

Stack's hands are a worry, fumbles too much. Is only in the team until Wood gets fit enough to play

No way on earth Markovic should be out anyway but it's especially crazy up against the Eagles. Kennedy + Lynch + Darling + Lecras + resting ruck at times. Even with Shaggy/Morris playing tall (one of them on Lecras) that leaves 2 tall forwards + resting ruck to cover. We need at least 2 genuine tall defenders (ideally 3 but Williams, Markovic, Mulligan and Morris would be a nightmare going the other way).

[Desipura]

No way on earth Markovic should be out anyway but it's especially crazy up against the Eagles. Kennedy + Lynch + Darling + Lecras + resting ruck at times. Even with Shaggy/Morris playing tall (one of them on Lecras) that leaves 2 tall forwards + resting ruck to cover. We need at least 2 genuine tall defenders (ideally 3 but Williams, Markovic, Mulligan and Morris would be a nightmare going the other way).

That's your opinion, I think the big ground will expose him for pace.
That said Williams is no certainty to come in.
Let's not get too excited with the win, we beat a team less physically developed than us.
Minson looked like Carey at times such was the way he outmuscled his opponents

Why play Markovic on Lynch when in the past we have played a rebounding back man who was able to run off him?
Le Cras is a medium forward along with Darling. Kennedy is the match up although he will have Markovic huffing and puffing by qtr time

[LostDoggy]

Stack out for me

[LostDoggy]

Out moles
In higgins

Could you explain what Moles did wrong today to deserve being dropped. Didnt he sit up straight on the bench or something as he only coame on in the last quarter.

Kicked a goal too didnt he?

[JohnGentStand]

if any of Hall, Higgins, Williams or Lake is fit they should play, regardless of a 3 hour 'plane ride'
i really hope both Williams & Higgins are right. Trying to cover Lynch & Kennedy is going to be a nightmare with our current stock. This game will be a massive challenge.

[JohnGentStand]

oh yeah..

in - Williams, Higgins & Hall

out - Addison, & 2 more :)

[Bumper Bulldogs]

IMO I wouldn't take Stack, just looked like he was not interested at times, Hill plays his heart out on this ground and really needs to go. Again please drop risk Hall or Higgins as it's a long season and we need these guys for the run home.

Out - Stack & Hudson (Suspended 1 week)
In - Williams if fit otherwise bring in the local boy Scofield for his first game. Roughy to replace Huddo

With the big ground it may pay to have the rucks as subs and give them 1/2 game each

[LostDoggy]

Should be OK IMO

Disagree. Had his back to the ball, hit the head. Will go for sure.


West Coast somehow defy the notion that you can't be overly tall and play Cox, Natanui, Lynch and Kennedy. Is this something that we need to plan for?

Cox and NicNat play like smaller men, fast, athletic, good below the knees, this is why West Coast get away with being overly tall.

I'd bring Roughy in (if his form at Willy warrants it), and try to shark the ruck with players around the stoppages, but otherwise leave the team as is if possible. Barry used to play for the Swans, so I doubt plane trips would bother him too much. If he's fit, play the man.


IMO I wouldn't take Stack, just looked like he was not interested at times, Hill plays his heart out on this ground and really needs to go. Again please drop risk Hall or Higgins as it's a long season and we need these guys for the run home.

Out - Stack & Hudson (Suspended 1 week)
In - Williams if fit otherwise bring in the local boy Scofield for his first game. Roughy to replace Huddo

With the big ground it may pay to have the rucks as subs and give them 1/2 game each

Agree with your ins and outs here. I don't think Roughy will be able to compete in the ruck, but provides yet another option up forward.

This game will be won by pure mongrel. Leave the experimenting for games at home.

[aker39]

Did anyone see Will elbow a Richmond bloke to the head.
Is he in any trouble?

[Jasper]

It depends on who is fit. But given the hard big Subi ground and the travel factor I wouldn't be playing Hall, Williams, Lake or Higgins. By all means give them a run a Willy if that is what is required.

Out - Cooney - is clearly unfit and his disposal will hurt us against better teams, and the hard subi ground and the travel won't help him - rest him completely
In - Wallis - wouldn't mind seeing him get a clean run at a few games.

But realistically, the MC and med dept are going to be best placed to make these calls. On this week's form Stack and Hill would be lucky to hold their spots, but not sure if the replacements are any better looking at the weekend's result of Port v Willy, so unless some of the senior players are fit, wouldn't think many changes will be made. Good to see the Minson/Huddo combo work this week...will be interesting next week.

[LostDoggy]

That's your opinion, I think the big ground will expose him for pace.
That said Williams is no certainty to come in.
Let's not get too excited with the win, we beat a team less physically developed than us.
Minson looked like Carey at times such was the way he outmuscled his opponents

Why play Markovic on Lynch when in the past we have played a rebounding back man who was able to run off him?
Le Cras is a medium fed along with Darling. Kennedy is the match up although he will have Markovic huffing and puffing by qtr time

Seemed to play alright against Collingwood at the MCG.

[G-Mo77]

Did anyone see Will elbow a Richmond bloke to the head.
Is he in any trouble?

When was it suppose to have happened?

[boydogs]

Disagree. Had his back to the ball, hit the head. Will go for sure.

The way I remember it, he was facing forwards and bumped side on, with no high contact

[westbulldog]

Westcoast shut down and slowed down Freo's movement with a Collingwood style press. Freo did not move the ball quickly, we should not make the same mistake. In Kennedy, Darling and Lynch they have three forwards who can and do take contested marks inside 50. Add to that Cox and Natanui dropping back into the forward line. This means we need height and the constant ability to spoil so I think Tom Williams and Brian Lake should be included if they are not injured. IMO Stack and Hill will be slaughtered by the WCE forward line in both strength and the inability to match up Le Cras. I don't think Barry Hall should be included, he was totally at sea against the Dockers earlier this year in Perth. A fast leading forward is more likely to trouble Darren Glass. Pace will be needed around the flanks so Justin Sherman is definitely retained. Dylan Addison might be given a role purely to shut down their run out of defence.
Memo : Force Priddis and Nicoski onto their right foot.

[G-Mo77]

Shaggy could be in strife. I'm watching the last quarter and he just clipped Jack

[AndrewP6]

Shaggy could be in strife. I'm watching the last quarter and he just clipped Jack

If the MRP is worth anything, he'd get off with perhaps a reprimand. Late clip, but not that much in it.

[Hotdog60]

Hudson's bump

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb256/Diggydogxx/2011AFLRnd8-WestBulldogsvRichmond_7Digital_2011_05_15_13_45_3002.jpg

[G-Mo77]

After just watching the game I seriously think we have more to worry about Shaggy being rubbed out than Hudson although Hudson has carry over points so....

Who knows what will happen at the MRP.

[Drunken Bum]

Did anyone see Will elbow a Richmond bloke to the head.
Is he in any trouble?

I saw that and was surprised that no one else had mentioned it. To me it looked like he would be in trouble but there was nothing made of it by the commentators and not even a replay. The umpire did warn Will to keep the tackles down at the time.
I'm hoping it wasn't as bad as i thought it looked because no one has made anything of it.


Shaggy could be in strife. I'm watching the last quarter and he just clipped Jack

I'm thinking he should be safe but then again i have no idea what the mrp is doing from week to week :/

[Drunken Bum]

just on the mrp, does King get looked at for pushing the Dogs runner? Should the runner have not been there? Think he must at least get a please explain seeing the runner isnt an active participant in the game, would hate to have seen the uproar if it had of been a 16yr old kid or a female runner that he pushed away in the heat of the moment like that

[AndrewP6]

just on the mrp, does King get looked at for pushing the Dogs runner? Should the runner have not been there? Think he must at least get a please explain seeing the runner isnt an active participant in the game, would hate to have seen the uproar if it had of been a 16yr old kid or a female runner that he pushed away in the heat of the moment like that

Not sure what the rulebook says, but surely there must be some penalty - no matter what, you can't lay your hands on team staff. Rub him out for 12 weeks, I say! ;)

[G-Mo77]

just on the mrp, does King get looked at for pushing the Dogs runner? Should the runner have not been there? Think he must at least get a please explain seeing the runner isnt an active participant in the game, would hate to have seen the uproar if it had of been a 16yr old kid or a female runner that he pushed away in the heat of the moment like that

Runner probably shouldn't have been in there but still it was unnecessary.

[bornadog]

A terrible time to have Williams, Lake and Wood out/in doubt.


Hill & Stack worry me. Neither look like they actualy WANT the ball.

How far off is Wood? Will he be back at Willi in the next couple?

Hang on fellas Wood has played 14 games, why all this concern about him being out. He is still learning and developing.

[bornadog]

Could you explain what Moles did wrong today to deserve being dropped. Didnt he sit up straight on the bench or something as he only coame on in the last quarter.

Kicked a goal too didnt he?

I don't think he is up to the task. His average possessions per game are around 15, which is way to little for a midfielder.

[G-Mo77]

I don't think he is up to the task. His average possessions per game are around 15, which is way to little for a midfielder.

But it's not like he's a key midfielder either.

[bornadog]

Hudson's bump

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb256/Diggydogxx/2011AFLRnd8-WestBulldogsvRichmond_7Digital_2011_05_15_13_45_3002.jpg

His arm is tucked down and it was a late bump, and the Richmond player wasn't hurt. Should be thrown out.

[bornadog]

But it's not like he's a key midfielder either.

True, but if we need to bring in Higgins, who would you pick, Moles or Higgins? We can't carry Moles id he can't get his hands on the ball.

[G-Mo77]

True, but if we need to bring in Higgins, who would you pick, Moles or Higgins? We can't carry Moles id he can't get his hands on the ball.

If Higgins is available then obviously Higgins but that's not the argument I was making.

I think you're being harsh on Moles. He has played 3 games this year and 2 of those as the sub. Both games when he played the sub he did add something so I really don't know how you can fault him for that as he's made the most of limited opportunities. If you want to break it down in average disposals he's actually doing a pretty good job in limited time with just over 9 per game with a goal.

He's not going to be a star but he's a nice bit's and pieces player who adds a little depth. He's got a decent boot on him and can slot a goal.

[LostDoggy]

The most obvious change is Cooney gets a rest , he's just not right

Second most obvious change is Stack is replaced by Djerrkura

so very early possible lineup

B: J Hill - L Markovic - D Morris
HB: L Picken - R Hargrave - R Murphy
C: C Cross - R Griffen - T Liberatore
HF: J Sherman - L Jones - L Gilbee
F: J Grant - W Minson - N Djerrkura
Foll: B Hudson - M Boyd - C Ward

I/C - D Giansiracusa D Addison M Wallis Sub - B Moles

I slotted DJ straight in at FP , fresh legs needed for forward pressure , Libba goes to the engine room, Ward slots straight in as Boyd's shotgun , Sherman Jones and Gilbee make an interesting HF line , Sticky Hill get's another go at BP ( at the very least cleaner off the ground than Stack )

It does mean a short bench but the side still looks well balanced , Moles is the best Sub we have at the moment

.

[G-Mo77]

Hill would be my first out before anyone.

I don't care how well he played early on he seems to have gone back to the old Josh Hill.

I've heard a lot pot Stack again. I really didn't think he was that bad. :confused:

[Sockeye Salmon]

Don't kid yourselves, Hudson will not be available for the next two weeks.

[LostDoggy]

Don't kid yourselves, Hudson will not be available for the next two weeks.

I,m aware he looked sore, there is no way they will risk him with the travel if he wasn't right ( that being said we risked Williams and he got re-injured ) , if Roughead is,'t ready we might have to use Mulligan as a pinch-hitter

.

[Desipura]

Seemed to play alright against Collingwood at the MCG.

You might want watch the replay again, it was wet and slippery totally different to the conditions they are likely to get in WA

[LostDoggy]

You might want watch the replay again, it was wet and slippery totally different to the conditions they are likely to get in WA

You kidding yourself if you think Markovic should or will be dropped.
WC's 3 tall forwards ain't gonna be covered by 2 undersized backman(Morris & Hargarve) and 1 other (Williams or Mulligan)

[chef]

Stack out for me



His spoiling, chasing, tackling, closing space, dash from defence etc was very good and he seems to be getting better and more confident each week. He ain't going anywhere IMO. I actually can't wait until he can play with Wood, Williams and Lake beside him.

[chef]

The most obvious change is Cooney gets a rest , he's just not right

Second most obvious change is Stack is replaced by Djerrkura

so very early possible lineup

B: J Hill - L Markovic - D Morris
HB: L Picken - R Hargrave - R Murphy
C: C Cross - R Griffen - T Liberatore
HF: J Sherman - L Jones - L Gilbee
F: J Grant - W Minson - N Djerrkura
Foll: B Hudson - M Boyd - C Ward

I/C - D Giansiracusa D Addison M Wallis Sub - B Moles

I slotted DJ straight in at FP , fresh legs needed for forward pressure , Libba goes to the engine room, Ward slots straight in as Boyd's shotgun , Sherman Jones and Gilbee make an interesting HF line , Sticky Hill get's another go at BP ( at the very least cleaner off the ground than Stack )

It does mean a short bench but the side still looks well balanced , Moles is the best Sub we have at the moment

.



Stack easily deserves to keep his spot over Hill.

[chef]

Hill would be my first out before anyone.

I don't care how well he played early on he seems to have gone back to the old Josh Hill.

I've heard a lot pot Stack again. I really didn't think he was that bad. :confused:

I didn't think he played badly either.

[bornadog]

The most obvious change is Cooney gets a rest , he's just not right .

Obvious to you and not me. I think Cooney is fine, he just needs to get his footy smarts back.

[bornadog]

His spoiling, chasing, tackling, closing space, dash from defence etc was very good and he seems to be getting better and more confident each week. He ain't going anywhere IMO. I actually can't wait until he can play with Wood, Williams and Lake beside him.

With experience he will aslo learn alot about decision making, which sometimes is a little strange.

[Mantis]

Obvious to you and not me. I think Cooney is fine, he just needs to get his footy smarts back.

How will this occur?

[bornadog]

How will this occur?

I am not a coach, but its obvious he was a little rusty yesterday with his disposal. I guess he has to work on it at training.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Stack easily deserves to keep his spot over Hill.

With up to 3 established players to come back they both might be in trouble.

I thought both were poor, especially Hill.

[aker39]

When was it suppose to have happened?

Here

http://www.gameanalyser.afl.com.au/?round=784&match=10310807&eventType=free&seek=3651&videoQuality=high

and here is the Shaggy hit on Reiwoldt

http://www.gameanalyser.afl.com.au/?round=784&match=10310807&eventType=free&seek=6393&videoQuality=high

and the Hudson report

http://www.gameanalyser.afl.com.au/?round=784&match=10310807&eventType=in50Mark&seek=6402&videoQuality=high

[G-Mo77]

With up to 3 established players to come back they both might be in trouble.

I thought both were poor, especially Hill.

I won't argue with that. Hill in the first few weeks I would argue but Hill from the last 3 weeks I won't.

Hill was awful yesterday and should make way for someone else even if our injured players are not ready to come back.

[G-Mo77]

Here

http://www.gameanalyser.afl.com.au/?round=784&match=10310807&eventType=free&seek=3651&videoQuality=high

:eek:

Doesn't look good. Foley got straight back up so that works in our favour.

[aker39]

:eek:

Doesn't look good. Foley got straight back up so that works in our favour.

I think he'll definetly be sighted by MRP, then we wait for chook lotto.

[Mantis]

I am not a coach, but its obvious he was a little rusty yesterday with his disposal. I guess he has to work on it at training.

But if he has an injured knee as reported his training load would have to be carefully monitored.

I know what your saying, but 'touch' isn't something fixed without practice.

[LostDoggy]

The way I remember it, he was facing forwards and bumped side on, with no high contact

No, he turned his back to the ball, and given his height and the fact he was sailing through the air at the time, collected the head. I don't think he'd be ruled intentional, but it was reckless, high contact, medium impact, so you'd think with his record he's gonna miss at least one week, maybe two.


Hill would be my first out before anyone.

I don't care how well he played early on he seems to have gone back to the old Josh Hill.

I've heard a lot pot Stack again. I really didn't think he was that bad. :confused:

See, I'd normally agree with you, but against West Coast I want Hill there. He plays them well.


You might want watch the replay again, it was wet and slippery totally different to the conditions they are likely to get in WA

Dropping Markovic, even the suggestion of it, is ludicrous mate. He's been an absolute revelation this year, I doubt playing on a bigger oval is going to worry a defender. No way he'll be dropped.

[jeemak]

Cooney's issues seem to be decision making and disposal related. It's amazing that a player of his calibre can lack for confidence but so often he's been getting the football and looks as if he's panicking.

He needs to work is arse off and persevere. It will only take a dominant half of football and a few goals for him to turn it around. Sure, he's carrying an injury however there aren't many elite players who don't on a weekly basis. He needs to find a way to work through it.

[Maddog37]

Cooney started to look like he was finding more and more run as the game went on. He was in the right spot alot but just had "one of those days" imo. Thought he was better this week.

Stack certainly is becoming more and more invloved in the game but he is like a computer that works really well most of the time until you have something urgent that you have spent all day working on and at the last minute it spits the dummy and you lose all your work. Maybe the first time you would forgive and forget it but after the second and third fatal error you would not trust it anymore.

His turnovers killed our momentum.

Hill I thought looked good last week but this week was timid and second to the ball. Maybe injured?

Who do you drop for Barry is the main question in my mind............

[BulldogBelle]

Cooney started to look like he was finding more and more run as the game went on. He was in the right spot alot but just had "one of those days" imo. Thought he was better this week.

Stack certainly is becoming more and more invloved in the game but he is like a computer that works really well most of the time until you have something urgent that you have spent all day working on and at the last minute it spits the dummy and you lose all your work. Maybe the first time you would forgive and forget it but after the second and third fatal error you would not trust it anymore.

His turnovers killed our momentum.

Hill I thought looked good last week but this week was timid and second to the ball. Maybe injured?

Who do you drop for Barry is the main question in my mind............



Rocket said that Cooney is still battleing knee soreness - and its effecting his kicking...suppose if he is 5% out then it really makes a difference at AFL level. He will get better as the season progresses, and hopefully as his knee improves (or he gets used to running and kicking with soreness)

Hope we get Adam Cooney version 2008 running around soon again

[BulldogBelle]

Cooney started to look like he was finding more and more run as the game went on. He was in the right spot alot but just had "one of those days" imo. Thought he was better this week.

Stack certainly is becoming more and more invloved in the game but he is like a computer that works really well most of the time until you have something urgent that you have spent all day working on and at the last minute it spits the dummy and you lose all your work. Maybe the first time you would forgive and forget it but after the second and third fatal error you would not trust it anymore.

His turnovers killed our momentum.

Hill I thought looked good last week but this week was timid and second to the ball. Maybe injured?

Who do you drop for Barry is the main question in my mind............



Stack will loose his position once Wood is ready and in form (circa >2 weeks max hopefully)

[chef]

Stack will loose his position once Wood is ready and in form (circa >2 weeks max hopefully)

If that does happen I hope the people who want Stack out of the team take just as much notice when it comes to Woods disposal and decision making.

[BulldogBelle]

If that does happen I hope the people who want Stack out of the team take just as much notice when it comes to Woods disposal and decision making.

Agree.

Only solution is to put a player with silky smooth disposal under pressure in the Back Pocket / HBF. Even then the best makes mistakes under pressure.

On another topic, if Wood comes in for Hill, I will be happy to bring in Woods agression at the ball and hardness where needed.

We arent getting that at present from Hill or Stack... (although Stack does well at aerial intercepts / spoils)

[EasternWest]

If that does happen I hope the people who want Stack out of the team take just as much notice when it comes to Woods disposal and decision making.

So you'd prefer Stack over Wood?

I'd prefer Wood over Stack because I think he provides more drive from the backline. But I think Stack's been mostly ok this year. My biggest knock on him in the past has been that he didn't seem to like the contest, but he's really been attacking in his attempts to spoil this year. He seems intent on fisting the ball and crashing in on the spoil, and I like that a lot.

Though his turnovers can be costly (as can turnovers from any player), I'm happy for him to stay in the side as long as the intent remains.

But I think Wood is a better player, and if it's a choice between the two, that's who I'd prefer.

[Maddog37]

I think I would be more confident Wood defending one out against an opposition gun player than Stack at this stage.

Fair comment about turnovers with Wood though. He needs to work on things a little in that area.

[bornadog]

I think I would be more confident Wood defending one out against an opposition gun player than Stack at this stage.

Fair comment about turnovers with Wood though. He needs to work on things a little in that area.

Please don't expect too much from Wood either, he has only played 14 games. We need both these players to gain experience for the future. They will make mistakes along the way but don't judge them on the one or two errors.

[chef]

So you'd prefer Stack over Wood?

I'd prefer Wood over Stack because I think he provides more drive from the backline. But I think Stack's been mostly ok this year. My biggest knock on him in the past has been that he didn't seem to like the contest, but he's really been attacking in his attempts to spoil this year. He seems intent on fisting the ball and crashing in on the spoil, and I like that a lot.

Though his turnovers can be costly (as can turnovers from any player), I'm happy for him to stay in the side as long as the intent remains.

But I think Wood is a better player, and if it's a choice between the two, that's who I'd prefer.

No, I think there's room in our backline for both and especially with the age of our backline.

I was just making the point that Woods disposal and decision making have not been better than Stack's(I would say worse) in the limited games these two have played and I would hope that the same people who notice Stack's mistakes would judge Wood just as harshly.

[EasternWest]

No, I think there's room in our backline for both and especially with the age of our backline.

I was just making the point that Woods disposal and decision making have not been better than Stack's(I would say worse) in the limited games these two have played and I would hope that the same people who notice Stack's mistakes would judge Wood just as harshly.

I can agree with that. Though I'm still curious as to who you'd prefer if it came down to the two?

[chef]

I can agree with that. Though I'm still curious as to who you'd prefer if it came down to the two?

Whoever's in the better form, I really don't see that much of a difference between the two.

[bornadog]

No, I think there's room in our backline for both and especially with the age of our backline.

I was just making the point that Woods disposal and decision making have not been better than Stack's(I would say worse) in the limited games these two have played and I would hope that the same people who notice Stack's mistakes would judge Wood just as harshly.

I agree Chef, the first player that everyone turns against every week is Stack. He is the new whipping boy. You read all the different forums and first thing in the team changes thread is drop Stack. Yes he made a couple of errors yesterday, in fact he is credited with 3 critical errors, compared to Sherman 7, Cooney 6, Griffen and Libba 5 each, but no one has called for them to be dropped.


I can agree with that. Though I'm still curious as to who you'd prefer if it came down to the two?

Prefer both to get game time and learn the game . I would say that Wood is harder at the contest and Stack is a more outside player, but doesn't mind going for the big punch in a pack. Stacks disposal is better than Woods, but Woods decision making is better. Both have potential for us in the future.

[LostDoggy]

Whoever's in the better form, I really don't see that much of a difference between the two.

One is scared and showed it yesterday in the last quarter

[bornadog]

One is scared and showed it yesterday in the last quarter

That is an absolutely rubbish statement.

[chef]

One is scared and showed it yesterday in the last quarter

What a load of frog ****.

Please enlighten us on how he was scared?

[LostDoggy]

You might want watch the replay again, it was wet and slippery totally different to the conditions they are likely to get in WA

So the game against Fremantle, where it was very slippery & dewy, wasn't an indication that Markovic can handle the bigger ground?

[Mofra]

If that does happen I hope the people who want Stack out of the team take just as much notice when it comes to Woods disposal and decision making.
Players rarely get an even run on output, but Wood is a different player in style so that may affect percetion as well.

Plays taller, is a freakish athlete, but (and I don't think this will be the consensus for some time) he doesn't find the ball as well as Stack does. His ball handling is better too - Wood rarely fumbles at VFL level and from memory it was a similar case at AFL level.

They probably turn the ball over just as much, but Wood tends to take the longer option if given a choice (I assume he trains with Shaggy a fair bit).

[Mantis]

Having not seen the game and by only looking at the stats would Gia be in any danger of missing out when Hall & Higgins come back?

Sounds like we played (will play) Addison & Gilbee up forward yesterday with a fair amount of success... If this continues do we still have room for Gia in our forward rotation?

[LostDoggy]

Having not seen the game and by only looking at the stats would Gia be in any danger of missing out when Hall & Higgins come back?

Sounds like we played (will play) Addison & Gilbee up forward yesterday with a fair amount of success... If this continues do we still have room for Gia in our forward rotation?

Played ok for mine. Too smart a player to leave out .. Gia gets the ball we usually get a goal

[always right]

Was extremely worried at the start of the match when Stack lined up on Martin. Thankfully it didn't remain that way for long.

I'm liking Stack more and more but he's coming off a low base. The big ground at Subi will suit him which is why I don't think he will be dropped. If he can just eliminate those critical fumbles he would be a valuable player in the side. Unfortunately they almost always cost us goals as he tends to make them in the middle of the ground.

Credit where credit is due however, some of his spoiling has been impressive....one against Riewoldt yesterday in particular. If he can get a clear leap he is fine, but he doesn't take out the body of the opponent enough for my liking.

[always right]

Having not seen the game and by only looking at the stats would Gia be in any danger of missing out when Hall & Higgins come back?

Sounds like we played (will play) Addison & Gilbee up forward yesterday with a fair amount of success... If this continues do we still have room for Gia in our forward rotation?

Deledio played more on the wing when Addison was harassing him. Deledio then moved onto the ball where he had more success. I'm not sure who Addison would line up on against Westcoast. Who is their most dangerous backman?

Perhaps Priddis would be a good match for Addison. Dylan certainly wouldn't be found out for pace....but may not be smart enough. I'd like to see Picken take Priddis who is a ball magnet.

[Maddog37]

Maybe Nicoski for Dylan.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Stack has been OK for most of the year but I thought yesterday was clearly his worst effort of the year.

I can wear the disposal errors but the lack of body pressure in marking contests was worrying. It was the reason Eade had a problem with Everitt and I can't imagine Eade would have been happy with Brennan yesterday.

[Happy Days]

Stack has been OK for most of the year but I thought yesterday was clearly his worst effort of the year.

I can wear the disposal errors but the lack of body pressure in marking contests was worrying. It was the reason Eade had a problem with Everitt and I can't imagine Eade would have been happy with Brennan yesterday.

Agree with this, especially as being able to kill a ball in a marking contest is one of Stacky's main strengths.

Having said that, Hill was much worse yesterday, and should be dropped ahead of Brennan.

[Greystache]

Having not seen the game and by only looking at the stats would Gia be in any danger of missing out when Hall & Higgins come back?

Sounds like we played (will play) Addison & Gilbee up forward yesterday with a fair amount of success... If this continues do we still have room for Gia in our forward rotation?

It's unlikely due to the credits in the bank thing. He chipped in with one decent quarter yesterday, just like last week. It's not good enough, and against good teams it hurts us, but it's enough to keep a senior player in the team.

[LostDoggy]

Can't believe the criticism of Stack. I am much more concerned about the form of Hill.
If Higgins and Hall are both ready I'd think about dropping Hill for Higgins and Jones for Hall.
Jones unlucky to miss but I just can't see Minson, Hall and Jones in the one forward line.

[Greystache]

I agree Chef, the first player that everyone turns against every week is Stack. He is the new whipping boy. You read all the different forums and first thing in the team changes thread is drop Stack. Yes he made a couple of errors yesterday, in fact he is credited with 3 critical errors, compared to Sherman 7, Cooney 6, Griffen and Libba 5 each, but no one has called for them to be dropped.

The difference with the players you've listed is all of them can and do dominate games, you take the good with the bad when it comes to match winners. Stack at best is a role player, critical errors from players that don't also do the outstanding will always be judged hard.

[Desipura]

Having not seen the game and by only looking at the stats would Gia be in any danger of missing out when Hall & Higgins come back?

Sounds like we played (will play) Addison & Gilbee up forward yesterday with a fair amount of success... If this continues do we still have room for Gia in our forward rotation?
There wont be room for him, is he getting slower or is the game getting faster?
Eade wont drop him although if Vespa shows some form, Gia may be in some trouble.

[Bulldog Joe]

Can't believe the criticism of Stack. I am much more concerned about the form of Hill.
If Higgins and Hall are both ready I'd think about dropping Hill for Higgins and Jones for Hall.
Jones unlucky to miss but I just can't see Minson, Hall and Jones in the one forward line.

How could you drop Jones after he has played his best ever game.

If we can't see Hall, Minson and Jones in together, Hall needs to miss this week.

I would not be taking him to Subi after 3 weeks out. Maybe Bazza needs the run at Willi.

While people are concerned about the defensive pressure forward, if we have players marking inside F50 the defensive pressure becomes less relevant and if we have multiple options it makes it tougher for the backmen to zone off.

Perhaps we should play our game and just kick it to marking forwards. If we can get delivery like Ward ptovided against Richmond we will worry every backline.

[immortalmike]

Having not seen the game and by only looking at the stats would Gia be in any danger of missing out when Hall & Higgins come back?

Sounds like we played (will play) Addison & Gilbee up forward yesterday with a fair amount of success... If this continues do we still have room for Gia in our forward rotation?

I was at the game, Gia worked extremely hard and got clear of his man on numerous occasions, unfortunately many of his leads were ignored in favour of a longer option (seems to be our plan). One thing that did stand out for me and those I was at the game with was Gia's leadership, he was always offering encouragement to younger players, rallying the troops and in general just firing up the boys in the forward half. It was also the best I've ever seen him chase, harass and defend.

[Bulldog Joe]

It's unlikely due to the credits in the bank thing. He chipped in with one decent quarter yesterday, just like last week. It's not good enough, and against good teams it hurts us, but it's enough to keep a senior player in the team.

If you are critical of players not producing 4 quarter efforts, where does Grant fit. He was very poor for the first half and most of the third quarter.


There wont be room for him, is he getting slower or is the game getting faster?
Eade wont drop him although if Vespa shows some form, Gia may be in some trouble.

Can't understand criticism of Gia. I thought he was a good contributor as he usually is.

If anyone has a position under threat in the forward half it would be Grant.

[Ghost Dog]

If you are critical of players not producing 4 quarter efforts, where does Grant fit. He was very poor for the first half and most of the third quarter.



Can't understand criticism of Gia. I thought he was a good contributor as he usually is.

If anyone has a position under threat in the forward half it would be Grant.

MC may also take the view that we need to get games into Grant quick smart, despite shortcomings. I'd hate to see Gia get dropped at the moment. Played well against Syd and Tigers.
I'd almost be inclined to put Grant in the HB line for periods and make him chase.

[bornadog]

The difference with the players you've listed is all of them can and do dominate games, you take the good with the bad when it comes to match winners. Stack at best is a role player, critical errors from players that don't also do the outstanding will always be judged hard.

All true, but the purpose of the post was to show how posters perceive players. 13 disposals and 3 errors doesnot mean he played badly. POsters focus on the errots not the good things. All players can't be stars and as you say certain players have a role to play. I wouldn't be dropping Stack as he is playing his role.

[LostDoggy]

How could you drop Jones after he has played his best ever game.

If we can't see Hall, Minson and Jones in together, Hall needs to miss this week.


Hall is way ahead of Jones. I agree it was Jones best performance but we need to fit in Hall eventually and we are too top heavy with Jones, Hall and Minson at Subi. With Minson's good form Jones needs a spell.

[Maddog37]

These are good problems to have.

Imagine having too many key position players! Unbelievable.

[Lake Superior]

All true, but the purpose of the post was to show how posters perceive players. 13 disposals and 3 errors doesnot mean he played badly. POsters focus on the errots not the good things. All players can't be stars and as you say certain players have a role to play. I wouldn't be dropping Stack as he is playing his role.

Does the error stat take into account handpassing to players that are under pressure or hospital handpasses, or even handpassing straight up in the air cause opposition players are near him. I think Stack in congested situations just handpasses for the sake of handpassing He seems to panic a bit. I wouldnt mind him having a stint at Willi and work on his composure under pressure. I do like his defensive work though

In: Hall Higgins Williams
Out: Stack Moles Hill

[stefoid]

Did Hill get injured? I hardly remember him on the ground and he is credited with 5 possessions! Refused to commit to a ground ball contest and instead tackled his opponent around the neck for a free leading to richmonds first goal.

I suppose he was subbed for Moles at some stage in the late third?

Of course Hall, Grant and Jones can coexist - Jones can lead up and down the ground and Hall stays close to goal. Grant is great at ground level on a flank. Its all good.

[Mantis]

Of course Hall, Grant and Jones can coexist - Jones can lead up and down the ground and Hall stays close to goal. Grant is great at ground level on a flank. Its all good.

You also need to add Minson to that mix.

[bornadog]

In: Hall Higgins Williams
Out: Stack Moles Hill

Looks like the most likely

[SlimPickens]

Don't know if what the HUN is reporting is correct but no mention of Minson or Huddo being sighted by the MRP.

[G-Mo77]

All Bulldogs players have no case to answer.

Great news. :)

[LostDoggy]

I really fail to see why some posters cannot understand why Stack and Hill for that matter get criticised. One only has to look at how Ward, Picken, Cross, and even a young libba go about to see a stark difference in application, presence, and just put your head over the ball and get the damn thing. No one is saying they should play like these guys but we demand that when its there turn to go they should dam well put there head down and go hard.

Until they do consistently then its out Stack and Hill every week.

[Rocco Jones]

I really fail to see why some posters cannot understand why Stack and Hill for that matter get criticised. One only has to look at how Ward, Picken, Cross, and even a young libba go about to see a stark difference in application, presence, and just put your head over the ball and get the damn thing. No one is saying they should play like these guys but we demand that when its there turn to go they should dam well put there head down and go hard.

Until they do consistently then its out Stack and Hill every week.

I think that's fair enough when it comes to Hill but I think Stack's issues are different. Hill is soft but Stack problems are due to his confidence and decision making IMO. I actually think it's application has been fine.

[choconmientay]

MRP (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/114009/default.aspx) Hudson is available for the next game as his action was deemed OK :)

[LostDoggy]

Cooney's issues seem to be decision making and disposal related. It's amazing that a player of his calibre can lack for confidence but so often he's been getting the football and looks as if he's panicking.

He needs to work is arse off and persevere. It will only take a dominant half of football and a few goals for him to turn it around. Sure, he's carrying an injury however there aren't many elite players who don't on a weekly basis. He needs to find a way to work through it.

Cooney played within his limitations , he could only move a short distance and handpass, he had no speed off the mark , there were many occasions were he could have chased or blocked but he just could'nt run , his kicking was awkward and rushed , its entirely possible he played with a few needles , as far as I,m concerned if he needs an arthroscope to clean up some scar tissue/ cartilage or has a ligament strain then he goes and gets his knee fixed so he's good to go later in the season, there is no point risking him , put him on the LTIL and promote Barlow

.

[Rocco Jones]

Of course Hall, Grant and Jones can coexist - Jones can lead up and down the ground and Hall stays close to goal. Grant is great at ground level on a flank. Its all good.


You also need to add Minson to that mix.

It's an interesting mix. No matter what, we can't drop Jones this week.

As you mention Mantis, we really have to consider Minson/our 2nd ruck in terms of the forward line potential being top heavy.

I think Jones' biggest strength is his work rate up the ground. If only he had decent disposal. My issue with Jones is his struggles to have a big impact. He needs to find it more or do more with it. It's the most vital part of making the tall forward structure work IMO.

Grant shouldn't even enter top heavy discussions but his work rate and/or tank let him down. With his speed and style, he isn't/shouldn't an immobile type liability. Grant's work ethic is enormous to making the tall structure viable.

Minson looked great yesterday and I am really well aboard his bandwagon but at best, he is a hard working yet immobile tall option.

It's Hall that I think brings the issue, especially when Minson is there. Hall's lack of mobility really puts a lot of pressure on the others to pick up the slack.

Basically put, the difference between being top heavy and Eagles/Pies like dangerous tall forward options is everyone being good. If they all play well, I don't care how tall they are.

[LostDoggy]

I think that's fair enough when it comes to Hill but I think Stack's issues are different. Hill is soft but Stack problems are due to his confidence and decision making IMO. I actually think it's application has been fine.

Making mistakes is one thing. But watching the game there was a number of times when Stack needed to be harder over the ball and was pushed off easily. Most are happy to put up with mistakes ala Cooney if you also go in hard when needed as even Addison gets little criticism on here but does tend to make a few blunders.

Its just interesting how two people can sit together yet see something in a totally different light.

I hope they improve in these area's as they both have the skill to be very good.

[Greystache]

If you are critical of players not producing 4 quarter efforts, where does Grant fit. He was very poor for the first half and most of the third quarter

He fits into the 20 year old developing tall forward category. Gia fits into the experienced forward/midfielder just like Higgins.

[Rocco Jones]

Making mistakes is one thing. But watching the game there was a number of times when Stack needed to be harder over the ball and was pushed off easily. Most are happy to put up with mistakes ala Cooney if you also go in hard when needed as even Addison gets little criticism on here but does tend to make a few blunders.

Its just interesting how two people can sit together yet see something in a totally different light.

I hope they improve in these area's as they both have the skill to be very good.

Not sure if it's a totally different light mate, I definitely agree with most of what you're saying and totally agree with you on Hill.

It might be too much about the semantics on my part but I think Stack not getting into the action is due to being so indecisive at the moment. He does the same thing when he is hesitate to break lines. Watches the ball, rushes disposal and generally trying too hard not to stuff up (which obviously leads to the opposite).

I think Hill just flat out bludges. Has a quality game, then a crappy game or two, when he thinks he is going to get dropped he brings some intensity back into his game. It's a cycle. He even does it within games.

[Greystache]

All true, but the purpose of the post was to show how posters perceive players. 13 disposals and 3 errors doesnot mean he played badly. POsters focus on the errots not the good things. All players can't be stars and as you say certain players have a role to play. I wouldn't be dropping Stack as he is playing his role.

The other major problem Stack has is fumbling under pressure, there's no stat for that, but his ball handling skills are that of an average VFL player. His best hope to be an AFL footballer is to be solid rather than spectacular given his limitations, but it seems that won't be his go.

I wouldn't be dropping Stack until we can get our balance right. After 5 years as a professional footballer he is who he is, an average depth player who struggles to handle the ball and make good decisions under pressure. If Wood is fit and playing in the way we all expect him to then Stack is back to the VFL.

[Mantis]

I think Jones' biggest strength is his work rate up the ground. If only he had decent disposal. My issue with Jones is his struggles to have a big impact. He needs to find it more or do more with it. It's the most vital part of making the tall forward structure work IMO.



He has only played 10 games.

He needs time to find his feet and the only way that occurs is by playing and becoming more comfortable in the role we want him to play.

[Mantis]

Looks like the most likely

Do not like.... We take out a 2 running backs and a mid for a FF, CHB and a HF.

Are we forgetting where we are playing?

[Rocco Jones]

He has only played 10 games.

He needs time to find his feet and the only way that occurs is by playing and becoming more comfortable in the role we want him to play.

I agree, I shouldn't have said 'issue'. I definitely think we just need to play him. Come finals time though, if he is still not getting enough of it we will have to do what's best short erm.


Do not like.... We take out a 2 running backs and a mid for a FF, CHB and a HF.

Are we forgetting where we are playing?

Totally agree and had a few posts on it earlier in the thread.

Kennedy, Lynch, Darling, Lecras and resting ruck at times.

One of Shaggy or Morris will have to play tall with the other one going to Lecras (Morris would be my pick). That still leaves 2 tall forwards + resting ruck. If Williams isn't fit, we need to bring in Mulligan to help out Markovic.

I know Stack isn't going great guns but I think he offers us something in defence and we need the depth he offers with Lake and Wood out. He helps free up Shaggy and Morris. Not a great option but it beats totally ignoring a role we simply have to fill.

[bornadog]

Do not like.... We take out a 2 running backs and a mid for a FF, CHB and a HF.

Are we forgetting where we are playing?

If Hall, Higgins, Lake and Williams are fit, what would you do?

[Mantis]

If Hall, Higgins, Lake and Williams are fit, what would you do?

If Hall plays we can't play all of Minson, Hudson & Jones.

If Higgins plays we can't play all of Gilbee, Gia & Addison.

If Lake & Williams play Markovic doesn't and neither does one of Hill & Stack.

[bornadog]

If Hall plays we can't play all of Minson, Hudson & Jones.

If Higgins plays we can't play all of Gilbee, Gia & Addison.

If Lake & Williams play Markovic doesn't and neither does one of Hill & Stack.

Well I guess its a matter of matchups with West Coast at the end of the day.

[Sedat]

He has only played 10 games.

He needs time to find his feet and the only way that occurs is by playing and becoming more comfortable in the role we want him to play.
I don't mind Jones getting it 8-10 times a game, so long as he takes due care when he does win a hard-won ball. And in that regard, he was much better with his ball use yesterday after taking several strong grabs. In his short career to date he has made a habit out of butchering the ball after taking a good grab - it's almost as though he is simply happy to have taken the mark and has forgotten the other half of the equation.

[LostDoggy]

One is scared and showed it yesterday in the last quarter
I do not accept that any player that plays AFL is "scared". Some might be tougher than others but scared, come on.

[Bulldog4life]

I do not accept that any player that plays AFL is "scared". Some might be tougher than others but scared, come on.

Couldn't agree more. Irritates me when any player is labelled as scared.

[LostDoggy]

Did Hill get injured? I hardly remember him on the ground and he is credited with 5 possessions! Refused to commit to a ground ball contest and instead tackled his opponent around the neck for a free leading to richmonds first goal.

I suppose he was subbed for Moles at some stage in the late third?

Of course Hall, Grant and Jones can coexist - Jones can lead up and down the ground and Hall stays close to goal. Grant is great at ground level on a flank. Its all good.
I was wondering the same thing, I know Hill did nothing, but I didn't notice him do much wrong, just didn't,t notice him at all !

[JohnGentStand]

if B B Bazza is fit then Jones should miss
he is way behind BBB at the moment, even though he was handy this week. I would rather see him demoted after a decent effort due to a more established star coming in than dumped after not contributing. He should get a bit of confidence from those 2 quick goals .

If higgins is fit then moles or addison has a rest.

if Tommy gun is then right then Josh Hill ( even though I love him) or Stack is going to miss

And if B Lake is then ready ( miracle cure via E.T.'s finger) then he can be our sub :)


i hope Embley misses...
i hope kerr plays, slower than he was, & not a star any more

i hope we crush dem in a mighty Southern sleeper hold.

[EasternWest]

Couldn't agree more. Irritates me when any player is labelled as scared.

I agree.

Though it was pretty funny watching Graham in the ruck immediately after Huddo cleaned him up.

The umps bounce went askew, and the ball went towards Cross. Graham seemed to shy away from Cross, and Cooney absolutely gave it to him. Funny stuff.

[Go_Dogs]

Having not seen the game and by only looking at the stats would Gia be in any danger of missing out when Hall & Higgins come back?

Sounds like we played (will play) Addison & Gilbee up forward yesterday with a fair amount of success... If this continues do we still have room for Gia in our forward rotation?

With Gilbee playing forward, could Gia spend more time through the middle, or perhaps even on a slower forward such as Ebert who may rotate through for WC this weekend? His best performances last year were in the middle, he's clean by hand and good in traffic.

Agree that he may struggle to retain a spot (or maybe just significantly less time) in the forward line once Hall and Higgins are back but has to play for mine unless his form really trends downwards over a longer period than just one slightly down game.



Stack has been OK for most of the year but I thought yesterday was clearly his worst effort of the year.

I can wear the disposal errors but the lack of body pressure in marking contests was worrying. It was the reason Eade had a problem with Everitt and I can't imagine Eade would have been happy with Brennan yesterday.

He made quite a few spoils on bigger opponents (including Jack and Vickery as well) but agree that he's a bit reluctant to throw the body in too much if he doesn't have a good run and jump at it.

He's a big, powerful looking guy these days though, so I think physically he could do it. I think it's a confidence thing, and over time he'll get involved in more physical contests and realise it isn't as bad as he thought.

He ran to position well to receive the ball, create an option or space for someone else, he was often left to spoil against much bigger opponents and usually did very well. Made a few errors with disposal and decision making and doesn't always put a player to advantage, and also fumbled a bit.

He's making solid progress for mine, and at the moment he stays.

[LostDoggy]

I think i heard a stat that we caused 8 turnovers inside our forward 50. I'm not sure what the average is per game for other teams but that seems like a good number.

That obviously comes down to pressure, with Gilbee, Addison, Jones, Grant, Ward and Murphy down there chasing and harrassing. All pretty quick players.

I feel that if we bring in Hall and Higgins and take out say Jones and Addison, will we lose this pressure. Yes they are higher quality players but you need to be able to chase and tackle once the ball spills.

[Mantis]

Having just watched the first 3 quarters I really cannot understand why there has been such heavy criticism of Hill & Stack's performances.

Both players have had to play the role of the 3rd tall in defence and have been quite good. When Richmond were coming at the mid point of the 3rd quarter both won some key contests and showed the type of desire we want from them.

Sure Hill didn't pick up many touches, but he played a pretty solid 'defensive' game which is what was required.

[LostDoggy]

I like Hill. Stack is ok to spoil, but does get a little lost on the player he is tagging and his decision making is very suspect.

[Desipura]

Having just watched the first 3 quarters I really cannot understand why there has been such heavy criticism of Hill & Stack's performances.

Both players have had to play the role of the 3rd tall in defence and have been quite good. When Richmond were coming at the mid point of the 3rd quarter both won some key contests and showed the type of desire we want from them.

Sure Hill didn't pick up many touches, but he played a pretty solid 'defensive' game which is what was required.

He laid a tackle at a crucial stage on Miller and was awarded holding the ball. His first touch is not good enough and gets pushed aside too easily in a ground ball situation.

[LostDoggy]

Jones for Hall
Addison for Higgins
Hill/Stack for Lake

Williams to play at Willi.
We just need out best team out there to win this one.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

It's an interesting mix. No matter what, we can't drop Jones this week.

As you mention Mantis, we really have to consider Minson/our 2nd ruck in terms of the forward line potential being top heavy.

I think Jones' biggest strength is his work rate up the ground. If only he had decent disposal. My issue with Jones is his struggles to have a big impact. He needs to find it more or do more with it. It's the most vital part of making the tall forward structure work IMO.

Grant shouldn't even enter top heavy discussions but his work rate and/or tank let him down. With his speed and style, he isn't/shouldn't an immobile type liability. Grant's work ethic is enormous to making the tall structure viable.

Minson looked great yesterday and I am really well aboard his bandwagon but at best, he is a hard working yet immobile tall option.

It's Hall that I think brings the issue, especially when Minson is there. Hall's lack of mobility really puts a lot of pressure on the others to pick up the slack.

Basically put, the difference between being top heavy and Eagles/Pies like dangerous tall forward options is everyone being good. If they all play well, I don't care how tall they are.

I thought that our forward line against Richmond looked better without Hall, with far more sharing of the ball and more options. When Hall is in the team we become very one dimensional, as he invariably commands or demands the ball. There is also the tendency to kick the ball high to Hall when he isn't strong overhead rather than to give it to him on the lead, which is his strength. We still lack a good crumbing forward however, which has been a weakness for a long time.

[LostDoggy]

Jones for Hall
Addison for Higgins
Hill/Stack for Lake

Williams to play at Willi.
We just need out best team out there to win this one.

Lake in instead of Williams would mean either Markovic or Lake to take Kennedy which would be a concern. Lake does not have the tank to go with him and Markovic does not have the pace to match him working up and back.

Morris would be undersized on Kennedy which in my opinion is more a concern with the mobile CHF types then with deeper forwards like JRiewoldt.

Tom has only missed one week and is the best physical matchup for Kennedy and I would be happier to see Markovic man Lynch, who is slower and plays deeper.

Much as I want Brian back I think we really need to see him be ready and demand selection, a precendent was set last year with Aka that no-one is above the team, this needs to be continued.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Jones for Hall
Addison for Higgins
Hill/Stack for Lake

Williams to play at Willi.
We just need out best team out there to win this one.

Lake was anything but fit two weeks ago at Willi, then missed last week.

I can't see any way he could be brought back in yet.


If Williams is fit, he plays.

[bornadog]

Lake was anything but fit two weeks ago at Willi, then missed last week.

I can't see any way he could be brought back in yet.


If Williams is fit, he plays.

Agree, looked way off fitness at training last Friday as well.

[Ghost Dog]

I'll just be happy for a repeat of last week thanks Rocket.
Just...errr...change those yellow and black jumpers to blue and yellow...

[Ghost Dog]

I thought that our forward line against Richmond looked better without Hall, with far more sharing of the ball and more options. When Hall is in the team we become very one dimensional, as he invariably commands or demands the ball. There is also the tendency to kick the ball high to Hall when he isn't strong overhead rather than to give it to him on the lead, which is his strength. We still lack a good crumbing forward however, which has been a weakness for a long time.

I remember Caroline Wilson came out with some stats once about Richo, just after he retired.
It was a nice little graphic, which showed the decline in Richmond's scoring efforts when he was in, and as soon as he was out injured, the number of goals suddenly started to spike.
The theory was the same. He demanded the ball so often, even when the players should have been lowering their eyes / trying better options.
May be a similar situation.

[LostDoggy]

I,ll just stay with the side I put as an early possibility

B: J Hill - L Markovic - D Morris
HB: L Picken - R Hargrave - R Murphy
C: C Cross - R Griffen - T Liberatore
HF: J Sherman - L Jones - L Gilbee
F: J Grant - W Minson - N Djerrkura
Foll: B Hudson - M Boyd - C Ward

I/C - D Giansiracusa D Addison M Wallis Sub - B Moles

If Williams passes a late medical he goes to CHB , Picken to BP , Hill to the bench , Wallis as Emergency

Hall and Higgin's should be right for following week, Cooney gets a rest - no point playing an injured player on a big ground , Stack is replaced by Djerrkura - fresh legs needed in the FP

.

[Happy Days]

At any rate, I think DJ needs to come in. That game where he was the sub (Brisbane?) he really added something, and that is the role he should reprise here. He might not be a great user, but and injection of pace that he can provide will really come in handy at Subiaco. He should come in for Hill, who was, in addition to being poor on the weekend, undisciplined and refused to straight-lin the ball on at least one occasion.

As one poster alluded to (think it was Comrade), someone like Moles really doesn't add value as the sub, as he is not particularly quick, and anything we get from him in quarter 4 is just that; a quarter of his usual output if he played a whole game. DJ is much more of a burst player, and would be much more effective in this role than someone like Moles.

Williams in for Addison if he's fit; Gilbee could play a defensive forward on Hurn if that's the path that Rocket and co. wish to take.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Cooney played within his limitations , he could only move a short distance and handpass, he had no speed off the mark , there were many occasions were he could have chased or blocked but he just could'nt run , his kicking was awkward and rushed , its entirely possible he played with a few needles , as far as I,m concerned if he needs an arthroscope to clean up some scar tissue/ cartilage or has a ligament strain then he goes and gets his knee fixed so he's good to go later in the season, there is no point risking him , put him on the LTIL and promote Barlow

.
Couldn't agree more....What makes me concerned is that the staff would feel the same way I'm sure, that leads me to think that it's not going to be just a clean up and 6 to 8 week off.:(

[Jasper]

I thought that our forward line against Richmond looked better without Hall, with far more sharing of the ball and more options.

Many teams' fwd lines look better against a defence like the tiges...Some of Rance's efforts were very poor.

[Go_Dogs]

I actually wouldn't be disappointed to see no changes this week.

[azabob]

I actually wouldn't be disappointed to see no changes this week.

Agree, only change would be to bring in Williams (if fit)for Hill or Moles. Both would be unlucky.

[Go_Dogs]

Agree, only change would be to bring in Williams (if fit)for Hill or Moles. Both would be unlucky.

He's probably the one I would most consider given the number of tall options WC have, and I think you may be right. I still think we could match up OK without Williams and if we can get it done in the middle and defensively it should really limit the good ball their forwards can get anyway.

[azabob]

He's probably the one I would most consider given the number of tall options WC have, and I think you may be right. I still think we could match up OK without Williams and if we can get it done in the middle and defensively it should really limit the good ball their forwards can get anyway.

W/C will load up tall, no doubt. As you said the midfield is the key to helping us win the game and helping out the defence.

[Mantis]

He's probably the one I would most consider given the number of tall options WC have, and I think you may be right. I still think we could match up OK without Williams and if we can get it done in the middle and defensively it should really limit the good ball their forwards can get anyway.

Richmond's trio of talls gave us significant problems. With WC's forwards being in better form we definitely need some re-inforcements.

[LostDoggy]

IMO it should be Williams out for Stack.

I think he would help combat their tall forwards in Kennedy, Lynch, Darling, Naitanui (when he pushes up).

(Just read the posts above and edited for differences)

[LostDoggy]

Williams in for Addison if he's fit; Gilbee could play a defensive forward on Hurn if that's the path that Rocket and co. wish to take.

I don't understand why people keep wanting to throw Addison back into Magooland. :confused: Let the guy have at least 3 or 4 games in a row and let's see what he can do. He's a hard nut and I thought he played well against the tigers bar one or two silly things. Much more consistent than Hill/Stack or DJ from what I've seen. I really like the guy and I strongly believe he needs more time in the 1's. You cannot doubt his endevour - bit like Minno really. Hill out (if Williams comes in) to make the point: "Yes, we really are serious......GET A CONSISTENT WORK-RATE!" and Addison keeps that spot.

[Happy Days]

I don't understand why people keep wanting to throw Addison back into Magooland. :confused: Let the guy have at least 3 or 4 games in a row and let's see what he can do. He's a hard nut and I thought he played well against the tigers bar one or two silly things. Much more consistent than Hill/Stack or DJ from what I've seen. I really like the guy and I strongly believe he needs more time in the 1's. You cannot doubt his endevour - bit like Minno really. Hill out (if Williams comes in) to make the point: "Yes, we really are serious......GET A CONSISTENT WORK-RATE!" and Addison keeps that spot.

Addison is simply surplus to needs in this scenario; we don't need a defensive forward, but we do need a tall back.

[mjp]

Addison is simply surplus to needs in this scenario; we don't need a defensive forward, but we do need a tall back.

Really?? Freo played McPharlin, Grover, Johnson and McPhee back...and got smashed. And no-one out of Kennedy, Lynch, Darling or Cox really got hold of them.

Maybe a different tactic is required?

[Happy Days]

Really?? Freo played McPharlin, Grover, Johnson and McPhee back...and got smashed. And no-one out of Kennedy, Lynch, Darling or Cox really got hold of them.

Maybe a different tactic is required?

I didn't watch the game (so feel free to shoot me down on any of this), but from what I understand of it, the Eagles main strength was to win contested possession count (which they have apparently done in every match this year), and play an otherwise defensive-minded game style (based on the scoreline).

I think one of our main strengths this year (at times) has been clearance work and contested ball, so we should be able to compete much more effectively in this area than Fremantle did (we're ranked 7th overall in contested ball to Fremantle's 9th, and clearances are about even). Whilst West Coast might be a better contested possession team than us (ranked 5th), we're a much better clearance side (ranked 6th to West Coast's 10th), so this will not be as much of an issue for us as it was for Fremantle.

However, I think it would be foolish to not go into the game without cover for their talls; Kennedy is a really good player, and of the team we fielded on the weekend (if Morris goes to LeCras, which he should), I wouldn't be confident of anyone being able to make him a non-factor. Also, if we go with a hypothetical (from the weekend's 22);

Markovic - Lynch
Hargrave - Kennedy
Morris - LeCras
Stack - Darling

These match-ups are not appealing at all as it stands, and it doesn't account for the resting ruckman. Another tall back is a must.

I'm curious as to what you think a different tactic could be?

[LostDoggy]

Main changes is Higgins for Hill. I've always defended Hill but when he pulled up in the first quarter when the entire team had drew a line in the sand, he lost me. If Hawthorn still want him, I'd send him packing. Higgins is a great in as he could play midfield, forward or even be trialled as a half-back. He adds another element of surprise to how the team will structure up on the day.
Secondly, if Williams is fit, he should come in. Has had a very good season so far. Unlucky would be Addison or Stack. This is tough decision because both these guys are improving and add something we don't have in defensive pressure and run out of the backline.
I wouldn't bring Hall in just yet because he'll make us predictable again and is a liability with his lack of forward pressure.

[BulldogBelle]

Main changes is Higgins for Hill. I've always defended Hill but when he pulled up in the first quarter when the entire team had drew a line in the sand, he lost me. If Hawthorn still want him, I'd send him packing. Higgins is a great in as he could play midfield, forward or even be trialled as a half-back. He adds another element of surprise to how the team will structure up on the day.
Secondly, if Williams is fit, he should come in. Has had a very good season so far. Unlucky would be Addison or Stack. This is tough decision because both these guys are improving and add something we don't have in defensive pressure and run out of the backline.
I wouldn't bring Hall in just yet because he'll make us predictable again and is a liability with his lack of forward pressure.


In: Djerrkura, Williams, Higgins
Out: Moles, Stack, Hill



Williams comes in for Stack - defender for a defender. Morris can plan small if necessary, Gilbee (6 goal hero), Addison, Hargrave, Griff etc etc could all be moved to the HBF in bursts.

Djerrkura replaces Moles as the sub. Djerrkura is far better suited to what is required from a sub on a larger and harder ground- a burst player

Higgins (if 110% fit) comes in for Hill. If the need for a smaller defender is required in Hill's absence, Morris can play small, Addision can play back rather than as a defensive forward etc.

Hall rested and given a chance to develop optimal fitness.

If Williams isnt available then Mulligan to come into the side for Stack.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

IMO it should be Williams out for Stack.

Agree with this. Stack has been OK, but I feel he's making 3-4 basic errors in a game. Dropped handballs, slightly half hearted attacks on the ball etc. However - I commend his spoiling, it's become an asset of his combined with the leap. If he fix these basic errors, he'll get more games.

Higgins for Hill would be the other if fit. Josh started the season off well but has slowly declined. I defended him a couple of weeks ago, but he's been average since. Again - I don't think a 'spell' for Hill is a particularly bad thing and would hope he doesn't take it that way. There's still a spot for him in our side - we just need him to perform better (and more consistently).

IN: Williams, Higgins
OUT: Stack, Hill

* Sub to be Moles again. I know we don't giving this role to the same player two weeks in a row, let alone 3 out of the 4 weeks, but I feel Moles really adds something in this role. His appetite for the contest, his pace and his improved disposal has been handy in this role. Perhaps he could become a specialist?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Djerrkura replaces Moles as the sub. Djerrkura is far better suited to what is required from a sub on a larger and harder ground- a burst player


Moles had 8 touches and a goal in a quarter. Djerrkura could only dream of those numbers.

Moles should take Stack's spot in defense.

[EasternWest]

Moles had 8 touches and a goal in a quarter. Djerrkura could only dream of those numbers.

Moles should take Stack's spot in defense.

Well, he's been teetering for a while. But Sockeye's finally gone mad. He's gone full James Cuming. You never go full James Cuming :).

[soupman]

Moles should take Stack's spot in defense.

I've floated this idea a couple of times and feel it has merit.

[mjp]

I've floated this idea a couple of times and feel it has merit.

No reason he can't play as a small, running defender. He is quick enough, kicks it ok and looks to run. Why not?

[LostDoggy]

Moles is more suited to the midfield and does a good job whenver he comes into the team.

[Go_Dogs]

No reason he can't play as a small, running defender. He is quick enough, kicks it ok and looks to run. Why not?

Yep, quite a few of us mentioned this on an article about Moles in the articles section. It's an idea that has merits. No real idea what he's like overhead, but he ticks quite a few of the boxes for what you want in a small, running defender.

[chef]

No reason he can't play as a small, running defender. He is quick enough, kicks it ok and looks to run. Why not?

How's his spoiling?

I really think this, Stack's closing of space and ability to go third man up in a marking contest is under rated.

[chef]

Agree with this. Stack has been OK, but I feel he's making 3-4 basic errors in a game. Dropped handballs, slightly half hearted attacks on the ball etc. However - I commend his spoiling, it's become an asset of his combined with the leap. If he fix these basic errors, he'll get more games.

Higgins for Hill would be the other if fit. Josh started the season off well but has slowly declined. I defended him a couple of weeks ago, but he's been average since. Again - I don't think a 'spell' for Hill is a particularly bad thing and would hope he doesn't take it that way. There's still a spot for him in our side - we just need him to perform better (and more consistently).

IN: Williams, Higgins
OUT: Stack, Hill

* Sub to be Moles again. I know we don't giving this role to the same player two weeks in a row, let alone 3 out of the 4 weeks, but I feel Moles really adds something in this role. His appetite for the contest, his pace and his improved disposal has been handy in this role. Perhaps he could become a specialist?

How many of our side do that every week?

[Maddog37]

Well, he's been teetering for a while. But Sockeye's finally gone mad. He's gone full James Cuming. You never go full James Cuming :).



Thanks stupid jack.:D

[w3design]

Josh Hill lacks hardness at the contest and has no second effort i would bring in Mulligan for him and Cooney 8% efficent not worth having him in the team bring back Higgins

[Desipura]

Moles had 8 touches and a goal in a quarter. Djerrkura could only dream of those numbers.

Moles should take Stack's spot in defense.
I think this idea has merit. Moles can run with the ball and has good kicking skills.

[soupman]

No reason he can't play as a small, running defender. He is quick enough, kicks it ok and looks to run. Why not?

I wasn't aware I said anything not in favor of this idea. I think it's a good idea. I thought I stated that in my post (not criticizing your response, just confused because I'm pretty sure I made it clear I am of the same viewpoint that it could be worthwhile).

[Rocco Jones]

Moles had 8 touches and a goal in a quarter. Djerrkura could only dream of those numbers.

Moles should take Stack's spot in defense.

In DJ's one game as a sub, he came on around the time on stage of the 3rd quarter and had to go off pretty quickly due to copping a knock. It didn't delay him too much and he ended up with 12 disposals, 1 goal and 5 tackles.

I think 10 or 11 of his disposals and a goal were in the last quarter.

[bornadog]

In DJ's one game as a sub, he came on around the time on stage of the 3rd quarter and had to go off pretty quickly due to copping a knock. It didn't delay him too much and he ended up with 12 disposals, 1 goal and 5 tackles.

I think 10 or 11 of his disposals and a goal were in the last quarter.

Moles averages 15 possessions a game. Personally I think he is lucky to be in the team.

[Sedat]

Moles had 8 touches and a goal in a quarter. Djerrkura could only dream of those numbers.
Moles was effective last week but the knock on him in the past is that he hasn't gotten enough of it for a mid.

Agree on DJ, although I think he could add something in our front half as a defensive small forward. I'm simply amazed he was given a 3 year contract.

[mjp]

I wasn't aware I said anything not in favor of this idea. I think it's a good idea. I thought I stated that in my post (not criticizing your response, just confused because I'm pretty sure I made it clear I am of the same viewpoint that it could be worthwhile).

Huh? You said it had merit and I agreed with you!

[soupman]

Huh? You said it had merit and I agreed with you!

Clearly I can't read tone well through the keyboard:o.

Consider my last post null and void. You make excellent points and I completely agree with you.

[G-Mo77]

Moles averages 15 possessions a game. Personally I think he is lucky to be in the team.

Why do you continue to bring up this argument as a negative? He's a fringe player and to average 15 possessions a game isn't bad at all. I really don't see the point in bringing in stats from last season anyway. As I said in an earlier posts in this thread his stats this season in very limited time are quite good. Maybe you should lower your expectations.

[Desipura]

Why do you continue to bring up this argument as a negative? He's a fringe player and to average 15 possessions a game isn't bad at all. I really don't see the point in bringing in stats from last season anyway. As I said in an earlier posts in this thread his stats this season in very limited time are quite good. Maybe you should lower your expectations.

This is a good point. BOD What's Moles efficiency compared to Stacks?

[chef]

This is a good point. BOD What's Moles efficiency compared to Stacks?

And 1%'s if you can get a stat on that?

[BulldogBelle]

Well, he's been teetering for a while. But Sockeye's finally gone mad. He's gone full James Cuming. You never go full James Cuming :).

So, you have invited a comment from me.

Stack, now 23 years old is at his peak. As good or as bad as he is now, he will never get any better. Should get rid of him as he is just a waste of time and resources, like a few others such as Addison and Hooper. These guys will only ever be C Grade players.

Moles can fill a few spots and can be kept for fill-in roles, but is otherwise also just a C grader and will never get any better. We are not going to win a premiership with the likes of these guys clogging up the team.

The club should be focussed on developing and giving game-time to our promising youth such as Wallis, Howard, Tutt, Skinner and Schofield rather than playing those C-Graders who will never get us anywhere. Doesn't really matter if you play them in the forward-line or back line, just playing them will give the team long-term gain.

The match committee should be developing the team for September action!

[EasternWest]

So, you have invited a comment from me.

Stack, now 23 years old is at his peak. As good or as bad as he is now, he will never get any better. Should get rid of him as he is just a waste of time and resources, like a few others such as Addison and Hooper. These guys will only ever be C Grade players.

Moles can fill a few spots and can be kept for fill-in roles, but is otherwise also just a C grader and will never get any better. We are not going to win a premiership with the likes of these guys clogging up the team.

The club should be focussed on developing and giving game-time to our promising youth such as Wallis, Howard, Tutt, Skinner and Schofield rather than playing those C-Graders who will never get us anywhere. Doesn't really matter if you play them in the forward-line or back line, just playing them will give the team long-term gain.

The match committee should be developing the team for September action!

Good to hear from you JC!

[Sockeye Salmon]

So, you have invited a comment from me.

Stack, now 23 years old is at his peak. As good or as bad as he is now, he will never get any better. Should get rid of him as he is just a waste of time and resources, like a few others such as Addison and Hooper. These guys will only ever be C Grade players.

Moles can fill a few spots and can be kept for fill-in roles, but is otherwise also just a C grader and will never get any better. We are not going to win a premiership with the likes of these guys clogging up the team.

The club should be focussed on developing and giving game-time to our promising youth such as Wallis, Howard, Tutt, Skinner and Schofield rather than playing those C-Graders who will never get us anywhere. Doesn't really matter if you play them in the forward-line or back line, just playing them will give the team long-term gain.

The match committee should be developing the team for September action!

Geeez you talk crap.

[mjp]

However, I think it would be foolish to not go into the game without cover for their talls; Kennedy is a really good player, and of the team we fielded on the weekend (if Morris goes to LeCras, which he should), I wouldn't be confident of anyone being able to make him a non-factor. Also, if we go with a hypothetical (from the weekend's 22);

Markovic - Lynch
Hargrave - Kennedy
Morris - LeCras
Stack - Darling

These match-ups are not appealing at all as it stands, and it doesn't account for the resting ruckman. Another tall back is a must.

I'm curious as to what you think a different tactic could be?

OK. First off, there is not much difference in our ranking for contested footy (7th) vs Freo at 9 vs West Coast at 5. That is going to be a 'on the day' based result. 2nd of all, if we are really planning on running at West Coast then we need to play some running backs.

LeCras is underdone. I would play Murphy on him and make him run. West Coast will try to get Nickoski assigned to Murphy, which will make things interesting...Stack takes Nickoski.

Morris has to play tall this week - he takes Kennedy.
Hargrave goes to Darling.
Lynch is covered by Markovic.

If / when Cox goes down there, we swallow hard and don't worry about it. He might kick 2 but I dont see him getting 4. Whoever else is back there at the time takes him (yes, even a small)...if he plonks himself in the goal-square and Lynch heads off up the ground, Markovic plays deep on Cox and the 'other' defender stays with Lynch.

We should not be allowing their tall, immobile forward line to dictate to our team structure.

[bornadog]

Why do you continue to bring up this argument as a negative? He's a fringe player and to average 15 possessions a game isn't bad at all. I really don't see the point in bringing in stats from last season anyway. As I said in an earlier posts in this thread his stats this season in very limited time are quite good. Maybe you should lower your expectations.

What I expoect is if he is going to be a midfielder that he gets alot more of the ball otherwise he is clogging up the team and denying another player game time.

FYI, has been sub twice and came on and got 8 disposals. Against Sydney he played the full game and got 11 disposals. Has kicked a goal in each game.

He has hardly set the world on fire. I would rather give game time to Wallis who at least knows how to get a ball and has more upside.

[w3design]

OK. First off, there is not much difference in our ranking for contested footy (7th) vs Freo at 9 vs West Coast at 5. That is going to be a 'on the day' based result. 2nd of all, if we are really planning on running at West Coast then we need to play some running backs.

LeCras is underdone. I would play Murphy on him and make him run. West Coast will try to get Nickoski assigned to Murphy, which will make things interesting...Stack takes Nickoski.

Morris has to play tall this week - he takes Kennedy.
Hargrave goes to Darling.
Lynch is covered by Markovic.

If / when Cox goes down there, we swallow hard and don't worry about it. He might kick 2 but I dont see him getting 4. Whoever else is back there at the time takes him (yes, even a small)...if he plonks himself in the goal-square and Lynch heads off up the ground, Markovic plays deep on Cox and the 'other' defender stays with Lynch.

We should not be allowing their tall, immobile forward line to dictate to our team structure.

Hear, Hear. Playing tall just further robs us of attacking run. Let them play tall. If our mids put the pressure on that is required we should be able to really make them pay coming out of our backline.

[bornadog]

This is a good point. BOD What's Moles efficiency compared to Stacks?


And 1%'s if you can get a stat on that?

Here you go, but remember its hard if you have played as a sub.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/molesstack.jpg

[Mantis]

^^^

T.O.G:

Stack - 74%
Moles - 47%

[Mofra]

We should not be allowing their tall, immobile forward line to dictate to our team structure.
Yep - in 2007 the only Bulldogs player to play on an opposing ruckman from each opposition team was Lindsay Gilbee. His rebound was far more important to us than the 1 goal per game we conceded due to an undersized match up.

[the banker]

OK. First off, there is not much difference in our ranking for contested footy (7th) vs Freo at 9 vs West Coast at 5. That is going to be a 'on the day' based result. 2nd of all, if we are really planning on running at West Coast then we need to play some running backs.

LeCras is underdone. I would play Murphy on him and make him run. West Coast will try to get Nickoski assigned to Murphy, which will make things interesting...Stack takes Nickoski.

Morris has to play tall this week - he takes Kennedy.
Hargrave goes to Darling.
Lynch is covered by Markovic.

If / when Cox goes down there, we swallow hard and don't worry about it. He might kick 2 but I dont see him getting 4. Whoever else is back there at the time takes him (yes, even a small)...if he plonks himself in the goal-square and Lynch heads off up the ground, Markovic plays deep on Cox and the 'other' defender stays with Lynch.

We should not be allowing their tall, immobile forward line to dictate to our team structure.

mjp where do you think the balance is for us in our game style between attack and defense? Our we more threat with a freer flowing game rather than a stoppages one?

[mjp]

mjp where do you think the balance is for us in our game style between attack and defense? Our we more threat with a freer flowing game rather than a stoppages one?

Before last weekend, we were the 3rd best defensive side (points against) and had lost more than we won. Last weekend we kicked 23 goals and generally attacked with some real passion.

My theory at the moment is that we are not going to out press the pressers - so let's actually make them deal with something difficult and actually attack with 18 rather than attacking with 8 which is what most teams do now...

None of that can happen without winning contested ball though.

[Ghost Dog]

Back halfWe're going to have problems beating the press this week.
With tight pressure in the back half press and a heap of talls lurking around the fifty, Darling - Nicoski - Natnu
each player is going to have max block and support to help the carrier get through the press or pretty accurate kicking to get over it.
For this reason, perhaps Lindsay and Bob are better off in the backline this week.
heavy rotation of players in the backline with a rest in a foward pocket - Griff, Bob, Gillbee might be one option to just maintain ability to run fast out of the backline?

Tom Williams is a good in with their height in the FWD line.

Foward line Minson will be hard to cover. Can't think of anyone who can match him besides Cox. Hoping he'll towel up their other defenders. His confidence is right up.

Midfield - Should get enough of the ball. quality stoppage ferrets in Crossy and Boyd.

[Happy Days]

OK. First off, there is not much difference in our ranking for contested footy (7th) vs Freo at 9 vs West Coast at 5. That is going to be a 'on the day' based result. 2nd of all, if we are really planning on running at West Coast then we need to play some running backs.

LeCras is underdone. I would play Murphy on him and make him run. West Coast will try to get Nickoski assigned to Murphy, which will make things interesting...Stack takes Nickoski.

Morris has to play tall this week - he takes Kennedy.
Hargrave goes to Darling.
Lynch is covered by Markovic.

If / when Cox goes down there, we swallow hard and don't worry about it. He might kick 2 but I dont see him getting 4. Whoever else is back there at the time takes him (yes, even a small)...if he plonks himself in the goal-square and Lynch heads off up the ground, Markovic plays deep on Cox and the 'other' defender stays with Lynch.

We should not be allowing their tall, immobile forward line to dictate to our team structure.

This makes sense to me, with Morris playing tall, but I still think we don't have to sacrifice run in order to play tall; Williams has to play, and we would still have Murphy's run from defence, with Stack and Hargrave potentially assisting. I also disagree with the sentiment that West Coast forward line is immobile; Nikoski and Darling are both great at "frontal pressure", Kennedy and Natanui (when down there) are no slouches; the only real immobile forward is Lynch.

Another query; can/should we do anything about Priddis? He's been awesome this year.

[1eyedog]

If Hall comes back this week, who goes out? Can we take a forward line of Hall, Grant & Jones over to play the West Coast?
With Higgins 'groin' issues, is he likely to come straight in for a trip to the west, or would it be better for him to stay and play a week with Willy and hopefully get some impetus coming into the following week's game against Geelong.

I'm just concerned that the long trip with his groin, could be a problem.
On the other hand it is going to be a very very tough game over in the West and we need all of our best playing.

Some headaches for the selection committee this week if both of them present as fit for consideration.

I have no idea at the moment what the correct course of action is, hence all I've done is ask a series of questions here.

Is he going to jog over?

[Ozza]

Interesting. Murphy is not the fastest player or the youngest set of legs. Any reason why you would put him on La Cras - if ther plan was to take advantage of his lack of fitness.

Murphy wouldn't be far away from being our quickest! I think he has terrific pace - I'm surprised you see it differently.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Interesting. Murphy is not the fastest player or the youngest set of legs. Any reason why you would put him on La Cras - if ther plan was to take advantage of his lack of fitness.

But LeCras can't bludge or Murphy will rip them to pieces.

[1eyedog]

OK. First off, there is not much difference in our ranking for contested footy (7th) vs Freo at 9 vs West Coast at 5. That is going to be a 'on the day' based result. 2nd of all, if we are really planning on running at West Coast then we need to play some running backs.

LeCras is underdone. I would play Murphy on him and make him run. West Coast will try to get Nickoski assigned to Murphy, which will make things interesting...Stack takes Nickoski.

Morris has to play tall this week - he takes Kennedy.
Hargrave goes to Darling.
Lynch is covered by Markovic.

If / when Cox goes down there, we swallow hard and don't worry about it. He might kick 2 but I dont see him getting 4. Whoever else is back there at the time takes him (yes, even a small)...if he plonks himself in the goal-square and Lynch heads off up the ground, Markovic plays deep on Cox and the 'other' defender stays with Lynch.

We should not be allowing their tall, immobile forward line to dictate to our team structure.

If La Cras is underdone then I think you are overrating him (I know he is a class player) and under rating Murphy's drive from HB. If Murphy goes to La Cras then Murphy goes to La Cras, it is way too dangerous to run off him. If we play free spirited football (as we have flagged) and we turn it over La Cras will have the ball in hands everytime and the Eagles will have a goal on him everytime. The Eagles are a different kettle of fish than Richmond and we turned the ball over a massive amount last week. Hargrave needs to go to him, Darling is too heavy and strong for him. I would rather see us struggle with one of their 3rd talls than play around with La Cras, he'll have 3 goals on you in 2 minutes.

[Mantis]

If La Cras is underdone then I think you are overrating him (I know he is a class player) and under rating Murphy's drive from HB. If Murphy goes to La Cras then Murphy goes to La Cras, it is way too dangerous to run off him. If we play free spirited football (as we have flagged) and we turn it over La Cras will have the ball in hands everytime and the Eagles will have a goal on him everytime. The Eagles are a different kettle of fish than Richmond and we turned the ball over a massive amount last week. Hargrave needs to go to him, Darling is too heavy and strong for him. I would rather see us struggle with one of their 3rd talls than play around with La Cras, he'll have 3 on you in 2 minutes.

To LeCras?

Picken played on him (LeCras) last year and did a grand job... Why wouldn't he get the job again?

[1eyedog]

Here you go, but remember its hard if you have played as a sub.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/molesstack.jpg

They play in completely different positions! Also, how many goals has Moles kicked during his game time?

[bornadog]

They play in completely different positions! Also, how many goals has Moles kicked during his game time?

Yes they do, but if you follow the thread, some posters wanted a comparison.

[1eyedog]

Yes they do, but if you follow the thread, some posters wanted a comparison.

You could use them to determine who does their role better I suppose. If you could compare them to those currently playing a similar role or those on the periphery of the team then may may be a useful indicator but this seems to be an assessment based on raw stats which I think is a bit meaningless without some specific questions behind them other than 1% and disposal efficiency.

[bornadog]

You could use them to determine who does their role better I suppose. If you could compare them to those currently playing a similar role or those on the periphery of the team then may may be a useful indicator but this seems to be an assessment based on raw stats which I think is a bit meaningless without some specific questions behind them.

I think it started by some posters suggesting Moles go to HBF at the expense of Stack.

[1eyedog]

To LeCras?

Picken played on him (LeCras) last year and did a grand job... Why wouldn't he get the job again?

Because they are a different team this year from when we smashed them last year and La Cras can expect a lot more quality supply. Picken will struggle with this. I'd rather Picken go to the engine room on one of Priddis et al. to help cut supply and for a genuine defender to go to La Cras (Hargrave).

[1eyedog]

I think it started by some posters suggesting Moles go to HBF at the expense of Stack.

Okay thanks for clarifying.

[Mantis]

Because they are a different team this year from when we smashed them last year and La Cras can expect a lot more quality supply. Picken will struggle with this. I'd rather Picken go to the engine room on one of Priddis et al. to help cut supply and for a genuine defender to go to La Cras (Hargrave).

When does Picken ever go into the engine room?

[Ghost Dog]

Murphy wouldn't be far away from being our quickest! I think he has terrific pace - I'm surprised you see it differently.

Perhaps, but he's got dodgy knees as well.
It's a long season. Have to manage our senior citizens ya know :)


Hey
It's indig round! Let's play Djer / Stack and Hill, Jones, Gillbee all in the foward line and let them fly the flag.:D

[Greystache]

Perhaps, but he's got dodgy knees as well.
It's a long season. Have to manage our senior citizens ya know :)


Hey
It's indig round! Let's play Djer / Stack and Hill, Jones, Gillbee all in the foward line and let them fly the flag.:D

Gilbee? Did I miss something?

[1eyedog]

When does Picken ever go into the engine room?


Not for a while only when a high class midfielder really starts to get on top. His first two scalps were Harvey and Deliedo when Deliedio played in the middle. He needs to tag Priddis on Sunday. He played on Pendlebury and Wellingham in the middle at stages when we played Collingwood a few weeks ago although I know he has had a defensive role in the back half over much of this year. Playing on King or Nahas is one thing, playing on La Cras is another.

Can we stick to the topic at hand (e.g. who to play on La Cras)?

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's indig round! Let's play Djer / Stack and Hill, Jones, Gillbee all in the foward line and let them fly the flag.:D

Our outs could quite conceivably be Hill, Stack and Jones.


PS. Why did you refer to Gilbee?

[Ghost Dog]

Gilbee? Did I miss something?

stand corrected

[Mantis]

Can we stick to the topic at hand (e.g. who to play on La Cras)?

Picken should play on LeCras.

[dogman]

If Lake plays, then Morris on La Cras.

[Ghost Dog]

Our outs could quite conceivably be Hill, Stack and Jones.


PS. Why did you refer to Gilbee?

Picken should do a fine job on La Cras am sure. Why not?

re PS Referred to him as I incorrectly thought he had an indigenous background.

Well, I see the Tigers are not fielding a single indigenous player. so that goes.

[Mantis]

If Lake plays, then Morris on La Cras.

Lake ain't playing.

[mjp]

If La Cras is underdone then I think you are overrating him (I know he is a class player) and under rating Murphy's drive from HB. If Murphy goes to La Cras then Murphy goes to La Cras, it is way too dangerous to run off him.

LeCras (that is why is 'The Frenchman' - if he was LaCras he would be something else!) needs someone to take the game too him. He is not fit. He is not next to fit. He is not running hard up the ground and turning his man like he did last year...that is what a 5 week layoff does to a player. Every side is walking on eggshells around him because of the whole 'he will kick 3 in 3 minutes' reputation - in his last 3 games he has kicked 1.3, 2.0 and 2.0 - we need to stick it too him.

Play Morris or Picken on him - fine. They will 'stop' him and he will kick another 2 or 3 anyway. But they wont create. Why dont we be aggressive with a defensive matchup - they will try to shut Murphy down with Nickoski (he completely obliterated Duffield last week) - let's not give him the chance and get Murphy onto LeCras with the instruction to run, run and run some more.

[Maddog37]

Duffield is a fair player but he is not a scratch on Bob. I would rather Murph be able to focus on sweeper/attacking than worry about the Frenchman.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Duffield is a fair player but he is not a scratch on Bob. I would rather Murph be able to focus on sweeper/attacking than worry about the Frenchman.

That's mjp's point. Play your best attacking defender on the unfit bloke who can't chase.

[1eyedog]

That's mjp's point. Play your best attacking defender on the unfit bloke who can't chase.

Fine but I hope we don't turn the ball over too much in the middle then that's all I can say, La Cras will kill us.

[1eyedog]

Picken should play on LeCras.

Thanks :)

We'll see on Sunday who ends up on him.

[1eyedog]

LeCras (that is why is 'The Frenchman' - if he was LaCras he would be something else!) needs someone to take the game too him. He is not fit. He is not next to fit. He is not running hard up the ground and turning his man like he did last year...that is what a 5 week layoff does to a player. Every side is walking on eggshells around him because of the whole 'he will kick 3 in 3 minutes' reputation - in his last 3 games he has kicked 1.3, 2.0 and 2.0 - we need to stick it too him.

Play Morris or Picken on him - fine. They will 'stop' him and he will kick another 2 or 3 anyway. But they wont create. Why dont we be aggressive with a defensive matchup - they will try to shut Murphy down with Nickoski (he completely obliterated Duffield last week) - let's not give him the chance and get Murphy onto LeCras with the instruction to run, run and run some more.

Agreed probably Dutch or something no doubt. I bow to your knowledge of how LeCras is tracking, you are at the coal face of W.A footy and have a good historical background to him. I haven't been tracking him and I am indeed judging him on reputation. I hope he doesn't come good against us this week. He's a quality player.

[JohnGentStand]

le craw...not la craw

[1eyedog]

le craw...not la craw

Yeah I got it earlier thanks for being so tardy with your reply.

[The Coon Dog]

Yeah I got it earlier thanks for being so tardy with your reply.

I think that was more a reference to a Get Smart skit.

[1eyedog]

I think that was more a reference to a Get Smart skit.

I thought it would be something obscure, insightful and eccentrically funny.

[The Coon Dog]

I thought it would be something obscure, insightful and eccentrically funny.

ftgAG3Vnif8

[mjp]

I think that was more a reference to a Get Smart skit.

Not the craw...The CRAW.

[JohnGentStand]

thanks coon dog
oldie but a goodie
not sure it needs to be obscure, insightful and eccentrically funny......the rule is if 1 person laughs i dont get charged a dollar :)

[LostDoggy]

The two West Coast players to target with real pressure are Matthew Priddis and Sam Butler , Priddis has a high ratio of handballs with his disposals - tight close pressure on him will force him to drop the ball , Butler is the most efficient user of the ball on the park for them ( almost 87% ) - we will have to shut him down to stop his rebound - I,d like to see Cross push up the ground to help the forwards shut him down

Easton Wood is the most obvious Sub , not quite back to full match fitness but fit enough to cover an early injury. Tactically I would Sub Grant off at HT, Wood and Sherman then rotate through Midfield/ Forward pocket .

When Moles is on the field I,d like to see him at BP to give us a strong body to crumb and run

Griffen has to drop back to help us rebound on the kick-ins , the idea would be to have Murphy kicking it to Markovic at the top of the 50 with Griffen in support

.