Season over

[Templeton31]

well I think we're done for the year. Not trying to be reactionary after worst loss in years but realistically following teams are a lot better than us this year:

Cats
Pies
Ess
Carlton
Wet Toast
Freo
Hawks

Being generous we are around the mark with:
Swans
Tiges
Crows
Saints

And better than:
Dees
North
Lions
Port
Gold Coast

Its all very well to keep saying we've got belief and we're a top 4 side but based on this year we're not. ANd I dont mean just this week. Am I being fair and reasonable or overly pessimistic following a flogging?

[chef]

Sad but true.

[Rance Fan]

Play the new breed....even if they aint up to it.
Its a right off!
Sack Eade...plan for next year!

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Yep!

Cant wait for 2015

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The season was over a few weeks ago, and as good as last week's win was, it was papering over cracks.

However, I think today's brutal loss is a good thing. We can no longer fool ourselves into thinking we're better than we are. We've been doing that for too long, including last year, but we had enough talent at the top to see us through to another PF. However, this year - the field has caught up with us.

Play and develop kids. Jones has been super impressive since the Collingwood game, Libba adds a lot and I hope to see us blood Schofield, Dahlaus (sp?), Tutt, Howard and inject more games into Wallis.

This is a blessing in disguise, personally.

[GVGjr]

Dahlaus (sp?)



Dahlhaus

[comrade]

The season was over a few weeks ago, and as good as last week's win was, it was papering over cracks.

However, I think today's brutal loss is a good thing. We can no longer fool ourselves into thinking we're better than we are. We've been doing that for too long, including last year, but we had enough talent at the top to see us through to another PF. However, this year - the field has caught up with us.

Play and develop kids. Jones has been super impressive since the Collingwood game, Libba adds a lot and I hope to see us blood Schofield, Dahlaus (sp?), Tutt, Howard and inject more games into Wallis.

This is a blessing in disguise, personally.

I don't disagree but we're going to get belted every week if we tip a bucket on the 1999-2001 guys and just play the kids.

I've reached the point where I'm not expecting to win now so I can accept getting enjoyment from watching the kids develop but I'm not sure most other supporters will.

[Remi Moses]

Total utter rabble!! Honestly those pidgeons got *!*!*!*!ing closer to Kennedy!
Please put the blow torch on media!

[Bulldog Revolution]

Its a very reasonable assessment T31 - the results do not lie

We have played a younger group this year and we need to continue down that path even more

We are missing some key personnel, but there is no point in pretending that a few injured players would have made the difference

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't disagree but we're going to get belted every week if we tip a bucket on the 1999-2001 guys and just play the kids.

I've reached the point where I'm not expecting to win now so I can accept getting enjoyment from watching the kids develop but I'm not sure most other supporters will.

I wouldn't drop all of them. Hargrave, Murphy and one of Gilbee/Gia to keep playing.

It means that Cross & one of Gilbee/Gia step aside. Murphy can still switch between back and forward, so it gives us flexibility in a sense if we wish to bring in a forward (Veszpremi? Dahlhaus?) or a back (Howard? Schofield?) or a mid (Tutt?).

Alternating is a good option, too. Bringing them all in once would be risky, but introducing Howard and Tutt over a 6 week span (Eg. 3 weeks each on average) would be worthwhile.

I think it's idiocy to continue playing all of Hargrave, Gia, Gilbee, Murphy, Boyd, Cross and Hudson.

It's extremely unfortunate that Roughead got injured.

[LostDoggy]

Cats
Pies
Ess
Carlton
Wet Toast
Freo
Hawks

Being generous we are around the mark with:
Swans
Tiges
Crows
Saints

And better than:
Dees
North
Lions
Port
Gold Coast

Am I being fair and reasonable or overly pessimistic following a flogging?

Glass half full, giving hope response?
According to this above, all we have to do is finish at the top of the "we are around the mark with" group. Which would snag a finals spot then pull a 1998 Adelaide Crows type finals form.
Who would have thought the 1998 crows would have matched it with the Dogs/North of that year???

[LostDoggy]

Its also frustrating that we traded for three players on the off season and two of them are running around for Williamstown.

If we thought they would be good for the club, why the hell dont we play them?

[Templeton31]

Its also frustrating that we traded for three players on the off season and two of them are running around for Williamstown.

If we thought they would be good for the club, why the hell dont we play them?

I think thats a bit unfair - we got vez for everitt who wasnt getting a game in our team and vez is just back from broken finger. Djerkurra cost us a pack of chips - wouldnt have got anything better with that draft pick.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I think it's idiocy to continue playing all of Hargrave, Gia, Gilbee, Murphy, Boyd, Cross and Hudson.

It's extremely unfortunate that Roughead got injured.

Yes, Yes and Yes, but for me Gilbee, Croos and Huddo are the one to go, apart from one game Gilbee has done nothing, Cross (As much as I love the guy) his day has come the future is now! and Huddo giuys play Roughy/ Minson, Cordy we need to make a change down at the kennel and the time is now!

[w3design]

Eade has to go he has lost the players .With G.W.S coming in i would trade Higgins and try and get get one of their 16 year old picks .
They get 5 and the will all be guns. Higgins is an injury or accident away from not playing get him out and at least get something while he still has currency STACK AND HILL have to go both a waste trade them for what every you can get.
Play all the the kids that might make it and i would even offer up Lake he obviously does not respect the dogs with the shape he has turned up this year get something while we still can i'm a very disappointed life long doggies supporter enough is enough .
WE NEED TO MAKE TOUGH DECISION SAKE THE COACH

[Ghost Dog]

Sake the coack?? Sake hmmmm maybe a good idea to drown my sorrows.

Looking at our club as though it was a business.

1. It's not performing as we wish. Yes, tough to take on Eagles at home, but we are very far off the pace.
2. The plan, whatever it was, has not worked.
3. The current coaching staff make the plan. The buck stops with them
4. Time for an honest and full assessment of where we are at. Common sense says we cannot make the flag this year.
5. It's ok. It happens and up until this game, there was some optimism. Honestly is the best policy now. cant change past
6. For those who feel gutted. Remeber, Worsfold was a wooden spoon coach in the not too distant past. We'll get through this.

[Desipura]

I'm over rebuilding, Im over another season without a premiership. I can only tolerate so much of this

[1eyedog]

I think we are a better team than the Dockers. Nearly ran over them in Perth and if we had a full squad to choose from we would beat them at the G. We are playing for 7th or 8th spot in the 8 against the Swans and Saints. This is a bad loss but if we make the finals anything can happen.

[Before I Die]

Sake the coack?? Sake hmmmm maybe a good idea to drown my sorrows.

Looking at our club as though it was a business.

1. It's not performing as we wish. Yes, tough to take on Eagles at home, but we are very far off the pace.
2. The plan, whatever it was, has not worked.
3. The current coaching staff make the plan. The buck stops with them
4. Time for an honest and full assessment of where we are at. Common sense says we cannot make the flag this year.
5. It's ok. It happens and up until this game, there was some optimism. Honestly is the best policy now. cant change past
6. For those who feel gutted. Remeber, Worsfold was a wooden spoon coach in the not too distant past. We'll get through this.

Excellent point. After 3 prelims, it was probably always going to take a poor year to force a change in our game plan. I want Eade to stay, but I believe the game plan has to change.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think thats a bit unfair - we got vez for everitt who wasnt getting a game in our team and vez is just back from broken finger. Djerkurra cost us a pack of chips - wouldnt have got anything better with that draft pick.

I've agreed with a lot of what you've posted in this thread, but we've trotted out that ridiculous line: "we couldn't have got a better player" in the draft too many times

I dont have a problem with taking a punt on those two players but we gave up too much for DJ

[Evel]

I wouldn't drop all of them. Hargrave, Murphy and one of Gilbee/Gia to keep playing.

It means that Cross & one of Gilbee/Gia step aside. Murphy can still switch between back and forward, so it gives us flexibility in a sense if we wish to bring in a forward (Veszpremi? Dahlhaus?) or a back (Howard? Schofield?) or a mid (Tutt?).

Alternating is a good option, too. Bringing them all in once would be risky, but introducing Howard and Tutt over a 6 week span (Eg. 3 weeks each on average) would be worthwhile.

I think it's idiocy to continue playing all of Hargrave, Gia, Gilbee, Murphy, Boyd, Cross and Hudson.

It's extremely unfortunate that Roughead got injured.

Good post.

We can't write the season off yet, it's only nine rounds in, the club can't just concede and play all the kids. We'll get smashed. That said, we do need to build a team that will compete now and challenge for a flag in the coming years. This means established senior players must come under scrutiny and fringe players who are putting in need to be given a shot. Agree that replacements have to be found for Gilbee, Cross and Hudson. Boyd, Murphy, Hargrave and Gia should keep their spots for now.

Of the kids, I would like to see Schofield, Tutt and Dahlhaus get a run. Don't think Howard and Vez would contribute anymore than current players at the moment.

[w3design]

He did win the spoon and also got them a Flag. Got rid of their best player and got the bloke who kicked 10 against us today

[Mischief]

:( I don't think the season is over. Eade said the guys weren't following his instructions today, so how could he do anything else to make them play properly? Their hearts weren't in it today, and it was the most disappointing loss I can remember. Need to give some players a reality check and drop them, and give some of our young guys a chance.

[w3design]

Endeavor, spirit and commitment are not 'instructions'. They are non negotiables, weeK in, week out. This was not merely a failure of a game plan. Will be disappointed if this is how Rocket spins it.

[LostDoggy]

:( I don't think the season is over. Eade said the guys weren't following his instructions today, so how could he do anything else to make them play properly? Their hearts weren't in it today, and it was the most disappointing loss I can remember. Need to give some players a reality check and drop them, and give some of our young guys a chance.

We can't make the top four now, not unless we go on a miracle run & not drop more then 3 games, season is finished.

Maybe he has lost the playing group, the guys aren't playing for him, it has happened a few times this season.

The weeks ahead are huge for our club.

[Ghost Dog]

I like to think of myself as an extension of the club. If the fans say its over then how can we ask the players to keep on showing their best, week in or week out?
Maybe it's the shake up we need to get rid of any 'ekers'
Rocket is certainly under the pump now.
This club needs to salvage some pride. Worry about relationship between coach and players. something's amiss

[BulldogBelle]

Sake the coack?? Sake hmmmm maybe a good idea to drown my sorrows.

Looking at our club as though it was a business.

1. It's not performing as we wish. Yes, tough to take on Eagles at home, but we are very far off the pace.
2. The plan, whatever it was, has not worked.
3. The current coaching staff make the plan. The buck stops with them
4. Time for an honest and full assessment of where we are at. Common sense says we cannot make the flag this year.
5. It's ok. It happens and up until this game, there was some optimism. Honestly is the best policy now. cant change past
6. For those who feel gutted. Remeber, Worsfold was a wooden spoon coach in the not too distant past. We'll get through this.



So, if it were my business I would investigate what areas aren't performing to target;

1) Players
a) Forwards
b) Mids
c) Backs

Which individual players aren't performing to target?

2) Coaching Staff
a) Is our game plan - and broader match strategy correct?
b) Do players understand what is required of them?
c) On a tactical level (read game day) do the coaching staff make the right decisions?

3) Strength and Conditioning

4) Injury Management and Rehabilitation

etc etc


I would be looking at which of the above areas will deliver the biggest result, and how difficult they are to fix...

[LostDoggy]

I like to think of myself as an extension of the club. If the fans say its over then how can we ask the players to keep on showing their best, week in or week out?
Maybe it's the shake up we need to get rid of any 'ekers'
Rocket is certainly under the pump now.
This club needs to salvage some pride. Worry about relationship between coach and players. something's amiss

Something is amiss. You simply cannot take that sort of effort onto the field. We would have lost to GWS if we played them today.

[FrediKanoute]

Eade has to go he has lost the players .With G.W.S coming in i would trade Higgins and try and get get one of their 16 year old picks .
They get 5 and the will all be guns. Higgins is an injury or accident away from not playing get him out and at least get something while he still has currency STACK AND HILL have to go both a waste trade them for what every you can get.
Play all the the kids that might make it and i would even offer up Lake he obviously does not respect the dogs with the shape he has turned up this year get something while we still can i'm a very disappointed life long doggies supporter enough is enough .
WE NEED TO MAKE TOUGH DECISION SAKE THE COACH

Maybe not sacking the coach is the tough decision......

[Mischief]

"Perhaps the biggest disappointment for Eade was that when his team did win possession they continued to over-handball and didn't kick enough. That totally went against his instructions."

Season isn't over just because you can't make the top 4. Any team in the finals has a chance to get into the Grand final.

[Greystache]

I don't disagree but we're going to get belted every week if we tip a bucket on the 1999-2001 guys and just play the kids.

I've reached the point where I'm not expecting to win now so I can accept getting enjoyment from watching the kids develop but I'm not sure most other supporters will.

Making a call on a few of them will make a big difference to the salary cap next year.

Of Murphy, Gia, Gilbee, Hargrave, Cross, and Hudson, only Murphy really has much to offer us going forward. You don't want to cull everyone all at once but we could easily drop 4 of them.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Making a call on a few of them will make a big difference to the salary cap next year.

Of Murphy, Gia, Gilbee, Hargrave, Cross, and Hudson, only Murphy really has much to offer us going forward. You don't want to cull everyone all at once but we could easily drop 4 of them.

I think Hargrave can offer us something, be it as a HBF, winger or HFF. Had a poor game today, but players often do in their second game back. I still think he can contribute in future year(s) though.

Agree with the rest and really hope we can make the right call on the rest of them. Particularly Cross.

[Greystache]

I think Hargrave can offer us something, be it as a HBF, winger or HFF. Had a poor game today, but players often do in their second game back. I still think he can contribute in future year(s) though.

Agree with the rest and really hope we can make the right call on the rest of them. Particularly Cross.

Yeah Hargrave was the other I'd keep in the team, not sure about next year though.

[w3design]

I would say the jury's out on Hargrave, he may have some good footy left in him, he showed last week that he can be an important link man. Murphy has had a great year though today, like everyone else, he was poor.

Gia and huddo's decline has been swift. Today Gia almost reminded me of Jono 's decline when age and injury suddenly wrecked the 'one thought' decision making. It's that which makes them look slow.

Playing in Perth really highlighted how slow we have become. When did that happen ..:eek:

[comrade]

Agree with the rest and really hope we can make the right call on the rest of them. Particularly Cross.

You're right, I reckon the footy department will struggle with a decision on Cross.

The reality is Libba has come in and already shown himself to be a much better all round inside midfielder who will only improve in time. With a midfield chock full of plodders, we need to make a call on our weakest link (moving forward) which I think is Cross.

Being Boyd's best mate adds to the complexity.

[DOG GOD]

Let's be honest here. Gia and Cross will play EVERY game in 2011 unless theyre injured. Our MC doesnt have the guts to drop them...end of story.

[Ghost Dog]

Let's be honest here. Gia and Cross will play EVERY game in 2011 unless theyre injured. Our MC doesnt have the guts to drop them...end of story.

So you think they are sacred dogs...erm... cows eh Dog God?
It seems that way.

[westbulldog]

Well that was the worst performance I have seen in 50 years as a supporter.
Liam Jones showed some class as did Libba whilst Murph tried very hard against the odds.
Check how many marks that mob took inside 50, says it all. Who were we playing guys - the untouchables or what ?

[AndrewP6]

He did win the spoon and also got them a Flag. Got rid of their best player and got the bloke who kicked 10 against us today

Judd? IIRC, he wanted out.

[Dogmatic]

Disgraceful effort today! Heads must roll! People are kidding themselves if they think we can scrape into the finals and expect to be dangerous in September. We are such a lazy team and I think it's the coaches role to keep the players motivated and working hard. Rocket is going to feel the heat.

[Ghost Dog]

Judd? IIRC, he wanted out.

Andrew! Long time no see. Wish I was greeting you under different circumstances.
According to the OP, our season is over. Whaddyareckon?

[LostDoggy]

I know posted this in the other thread but it's relevant here to

At this time we just have to accept the reality that injuries have interrupted our season so far , this means we just havn't had the structure Rocket wanted , we have been forced to rotate young players with players coming back from injury , at the moment I,m waiting for the admittance that we are rebuilding for another crack at the finals next year, the chance to get more game time into Ward, Libba and Wallis , another pre-season into Jones, Howard, Tutt, Schofield, Dahlhous ,Skinner and Cordy will see our list rejuvenated , Panos is also in the mix as the longer term replacement for Hall

Today's result was awful but the future isn't bleak

.

[AndrewP6]

Andrew! Long time no see. Wish I was greeting you under different circumstances.
According to the OP, our season is over. Whaddyareckon?

haha..thanks for the welcome. Have been around, just kept in the background a bit.
As regards the OP, I fear it might be on the money. I can't see us getting back amongst the thick of things from here.

[boydogs]

Was everyone thinking the same way last week? Didn't think so.

We just had a bad game. Perth doesn't suit us, and 3 of our best players were out.

This result will put a lot of pressure on, but so did the Aker fiasco last year before we came out and smashed Freo.

[Scraggers]

Was everyone thinking the same way last week? Didn't think so.

We just had a bad game. Perth doesn't suit us, and 3 of our best players were out.

This result will put a lot of pressure on, but so did the Aker fiasco last year before we came out and smashed Freo.

best post I've read tonight

[LostDoggy]

I didnt get carried away with last week. Allowing the opposition to score 18 goals was not good and told me that we havent changed in relation to pressuring the opposition.

We have not moved with the trends & we are now paying. If you look at most teams around the top 6, defensive pressure, especially in the Fwd 50 is an intergral part of their game plan.

After some of the comments pre-season, i expected to see us adopting this tactic.

Simple thing is we dont work hard enough when we dont have the ball, and now we are also not working hard enough when we do have it.

Think we need to make some calls on some older players and if they are not likely to add anything into the future, then play some of the young draftees. No point in getting smacked each game with older players in the side, it just holds back the development of younger players. I know people will say that we may get flogged by playing too many kids, but at least the club can review the list at seasons end with having a bit more of insight into how the younger players looked when playing 4-6 games in a row in the seniors.

The one thing that really dissapointed me yesterday, was that we gave up......I dont mind losing so much if we have had a crack, but that was so disheartening.

[chef]

Was everyone thinking the same way last week? Didn't think so.

We just had a bad game. Perth doesn't suit us, and 3 of our best players were out.

This result will put a lot of pressure on, but so did the Aker fiasco last year before we came out and smashed Freo.

Those three players are shadows of their former selves and aren't going to help that much when they return.

[Jasper]

Was everyone thinking the same way last week? Didn't think so.

We just had a bad game. Perth doesn't suit us, and 3 of our best players were out.

This result will put a lot of pressure on, but so did the Aker fiasco last year before we came out and smashed Freo.


best post I've read tonight

Yeah the other problem is that fwd press, we are okay if teams don't play that against us...

Fair dinkum Lake is approaching his twilight and even now can't get his body right
Hall won't be there next year
Cooney appears chronically injured and has been for some time

Add to this Higgins appears to be perpetually injured. Murphy is carrying a chronic knee that has packed up at the business of the last few years, and you reckon everything's okay and its just a bad game?

Fully agree with Banana's comments.

[LostDoggy]

I think we have missed our chance simple as that.

We need to look at the players who are going to be there for out next assault and trade accordingly.

If we are going to bottom out, it might as well be next year when we can again get some decent draft pics.

A couple of years of pain and if we can get games into the following players Grant, Jones, Cordy, Wallis, Ward, Roughead and Libba we might be back and playing finals in 3 years with hopefully a fit Cooney, Griffen, Higgins.

I think theere is enough of a side there with some new talent coming through to hopefully build for a flag

We need to seriously look at trading for draft pics anyone who inst going to be there.

[LostDoggy]

I think theere is enough of a side there with some new talent coming through to hopefully build for a flag
.

Biggest problem I see is our repeated lack of fight when things run against us. Thats not a talent issue its a mental thing, we don't have enough players on our list who dig inside themselves and pull out something extra when the chips are down. We can all accept losses, its hard to accept capitulations, and its becoming a trend.

[DOG GOD]

So you think they are sacred dogs...erm... cows eh Dog God?
It seems that way.

Absolutely. They are in the leadership group for starters.

I like Cross as a player. he's hard, tough, won't skirk a contest and will put his head over the ball at all times, BUT, he's just too slow, has poor skills, and his decision making can put others under more pressure than required.

Gia plays 3-4 great games of footy per year. The other games he just meanders around the fwd 50 giving little to no defensive pressure, tackles that don't stick, and can be a very poor shot for goal (on very gettable ranges).

I would certainly drop Gia before Cross, but like others have posted previously, it makes it really hard to play both Cross and Boyd and both Gia and Higgins.

Guys like Gilbee and Higgins need to go back to the VFL and DOMINATE. Too many players get games on NAME alone at this club.

Some hard decisions need to be made, and if Rocket can't do it, then get someone who can and will.

[LostDoggy]

The rapture was just a day late

[Murphy'sLore]

The Rapture would have been the only thing that might have saved us...

[LostDoggy]

I agree with this statement. But I also agree with what Dermot B. said (Think it was Dermie) couple of weeks ago. Now I don't usually rate anything Dermie says, but he did say he does expect the Bulldogs to be quite poor in the first half of the year, but when the team does get settled and get its best 22 in for a consistent amount of time we will be a much better side. Maybe not top 4, but I still think we will just scrape into the finals (and probably get knocked)

[bornadog]

Can I remind people that worse than this weeks game was round 20 last year. At least we have time to regroup (if we can :o)

[Cyberdoggie]

Guys like Gilbee and Higgins need to go back to the VFL and DOMINATE. Too many players get games on NAME alone at this club.

Some hard decisions need to be made, and if Rocket can't do it, then get someone who can and will.

Gilbee dominately at AFL last week so i don't think he's out of form.

It's the same old story everytime we have a bad loss and i know we don't want to admit it to ourselves but perhaps we just are flat track bullies, downhill skiiers etc.

Our team has been labelled with the term for a while now and you would have to say with good reason now.

I don't think it's any one player that is letting us down etc, perhpas it's just the mix of players/type isn't right. We look great when the game is going our way but when we are under pressure we don't have many that stand up. It's like the school yard bully and his friends are picking on us, standing around us in a circle and pushing us down everytime we try and get up. Unfortunately we don't have enough of the cohones to stand up when this happens.

p.s. Was it just me or did anyone else think they were watching the Harlem Globetrotters vs the Washington Generals last night? :(

[Cyberdoggie]

Can I remind people that worse than this weeks game was round 20 last year. At least we have time to regroup (if we can :o)

Statistically this was the worst loss since 1996.
7th worst loss in our history, worst since changing our name to "Western Bulldogs".
Last years game against Geelong was the previous worse loss under our current name.



We all remember what a fun year that was.
I don't think the rest of our year will turn out like that but it hurts none the less.

[Maddog37]

Can I remind people that worse than this weeks game was round 20 last year. At least we have time to regroup (if we can :o)

Flogged by cats in round 20, flogged by pies in final. Flogged by Bombers first game. Flogged by Eagles this week. That is four floggings in 14 games.

[Murphy'sLore]

Go ahead and shoot me down but I would rather see us play with some dash and attack (a la last week) even if we lost anyway, than struggling to replicate a game plan that we just seem uncomfortable with, or unable to execute, and getting steamrolled. If we must go down let's go down with style -- our own style.

[Cyberdoggie]

Go ahead and shoot me down but I would rather see us play with some dash and attack (a la last week) even if we lost anyway, than struggling to replicate a game plan that we just seem uncomfortable with, or unable to execute, and getting steamrolled. If we must go down let's go down with style -- our own style.

They were probably trying to attack but it's not really an option when your under siege and not prepared physically or mentally to deal with it.

[bornadog]

Statistically this was the worst loss since 1996.
7th worst loss in our history, worst since changing our name to "Western Bulldogs".
Last years game against Geelong was the previous worse loss under our current name.

.

I guess the reason I say the Geelong game was worse, is with the Geelong game we were never ever a chance. At least with the West Coast game we got to within 22 points. Statsically worse but the Geelong game after quarter time we weren't even close.

[AndrewP6]

p.s. Was it just me or did anyone else think they were watching the Harlem Globetrotters vs the Washington Generals last night? :(

Nah, I've enjoyed watching the 'Trotters.

[LostDoggy]

Go ahead and shoot me down but I would rather see us play with some dash and attack (a la last week) even if we lost anyway, than struggling to replicate a game plan that we just seem uncomfortable with, or unable to execute, and getting steamrolled. If we must go down let's go down with style -- our own style.

For mine against sides that put that much tackling pressure you cant play that dash and attack game plan. Against Collingwood they played a more patient game of hitting targets and hanging on to the ball and we nearly won. Watching Eagles this year they are one of the best at this

[chef]

For mine against sides that put that much tackling pressure you cant play that dash and attack game plan. Against Collingwood they played a more patient game of hitting targets and hanging on to the ball and we nearly won. Watching Eagles this year they are one of the best at this

When was this?

[LostDoggy]

When was this?

2 shots at goal for the lead in the last quarter then sending our best 2 defenders forward to win the game causing the late blowout

[chef]

2 shots at goal for the lead in the last quarter then sending our best 2 defenders forward to win the game causing the late blowout

We were never going to win that game. We put the challenge up and got smashed in the last quarter.

[LostDoggy]

We were never going to win that game. We put the challenge up and got smashed in the last quarter.
I thought that Jones might have kicked both of them and we would have been 10 points up ... but I was talking about the game plan and how it worked that night with a depleted team

[chef]

I thought that Jones might have kicked both of them and we would have been 10 points up ... but I was talking about the game plan and how it worked that night with a depleted team

Fair enough, I always had the feeling Collingwood were going to over run us late in the game. Kind of like they did to the Crows the other day.

[w3design]

Go ahead and shoot me down but I would rather see us play with some dash and attack (a la last week) even if we lost anyway, than struggling to replicate a game plan that we just seem uncomfortable with, or unable to execute, and getting steamrolled. If we must go down let's go down with style -- our own style.

I'm not going to shoot you down, I like your basic premise, but last week the dash and attack were accompanied by desperation at the man and the ball. Our 1st goal v tigers was created by manic ferocious attack on the footy by Griff..we created the opportunity to run and carry by winning in the clinches. In the first 5 mins of yesterday's shocker we had already missed umpteen tackles ( god I hate those flailing arm 'pretend' tackles) and were getting thrashed in close.

There were similar games last year where the free flowing dashing style was built on the back of good strong contested footy. Geelong are still an attractive team to watch even though they've tightened up defensively. The pies can still put on devastating bursts and score freely. :( The choice doesn't have to be dour swans/ saints footy vs free flowing, stylish footy I reckon.

[LostDoggy]

Flogged by cats in round 20, flogged by pies in final. Flogged by Bombers first game. Flogged by Eagles this week. That is four floggings in 14 games.

Good teams don't allow themselves to be flogged. Ergo; this is not a good team....:(

[LostDoggy]

Agreed - we are overrated and have been for some time. Good teams don't get flogged in the manner we do and good teams win big games. We have got an awful lot out of our list over the last few years, but good teams have had our measure for some time.

[Maddog37]

Which means it is time for a rebuild.

[Ghost Dog]

Flogged by cats in round 20, flogged by pies in final. Flogged by Bombers first game. Flogged by Eagles this week. That is four floggings in 14 games.


Agreed - we are overrated and have been for some time. Good teams don't get flogged in the manner we do and good teams win big games. We have got an awful lot out of our list over the last few years, but good teams have had our measure for some time.


I don't subscribe to the rebuild theory a la Baily. . Re-fit as you go IMV.
We can't afford years in the wilderness like Ds or Tigers.

[LostDoggy]

As quoted in the herald sun today, Let the tanking begin...........................

Not that i would endorse this.

[Ghost Dog]

As quoted in the herald sun today, Let the tanking begin...........................

Not that i would endorse this.

Um, yeah...that's worked really well for Melbourne.

[comrade]

Um, yeah...that's worked really well for Melbourne.

It seems to be working ok for the team that just annihilated us.

[Ghost Dog]

It seems to be working ok for the team that just annihilated us.

My good Comrade
Do you honestly, HONESTLY believe that they were 123 points better than us in terms of player quality on the day?

In addition, are you about to give an endorsment to tanking?
Yes or No?

[LostDoggy]

Sitting in bed in San Francisco (have been traveling the US for 4 weeks) and am wondering what on earth has happened to my football team? Can we turn this around? Can we afford a major re-build? Personally I thought the signs were there against the Dons to suggest that a lack of hunger and modern game plan were lacking. I also believe that our lack of pace and drop in skill level is leaving us extremely exposed.

[Dry Rot]

It's a funny old world. I reckoned we were rubbish from Round 1, but got shouted down here.

No surprise to me that our season is over - IIRC I even reckoned we weren't too good against the two Qld teams, despite the scores. The signs were clear and waiting to be revealed against quality opponents, but again shouted down here.

The game v Pies was telling - we were only in it for a while due their inaccuracy, and then they ran over us just like WCE.

Re the WCE game, I thought we'd get belted but not something like 19 goals to one in a bit over a quarter.

Dunno what the problems are or how to fix them, but I reckon it's a bit rich the way some here and on BF put it all at the feet of Eade. He wasn't out there playing in the last quarter on Sunday.

[LostDoggy]

Eade has to go he has lost the players .With G.W.S coming in i would trade Higgins and try and get get one of their 16 year old picks .
They get 5 and the will all be guns. Higgins is an injury or accident away from not playing get him out and at least get something while he still has currency STACK AND HILL have to go both a waste trade them for what every you can get.
Play all the the kids that might make it and i would even offer up Lake he obviously does not respect the dogs with the shape he has turned up this year get something while we still can i'm a very disappointed life long doggies supporter enough is enough .
WE NEED TO MAKE TOUGH DECISION SAKE THE COACH

WHAT you are blaming Lake with the shape he has turned up in this year,bloody hell mate you have THREE MAJOR OPS.and not be managed well.and see what shape you would be in.And then you say Lake dos'nt respect the dogs.WHY because he could'nt get a good pre season in because of his injuries.that he played with last season and earnt AA Fullback. and your saying offer up Lake for trade while we still can.All this is DONT GET HURT LAKE we will have to trade you.LAKE HAS NO RESPECT so he wont play injured any more and hold the backline together.

[chef]

My good Comrade
Do you honestly, HONESTLY believe that they were 123 points better than us in terms of player quality on the day?

In addition, are you about to give an endorsment to tanking?
Yes or No?

Maybe not 123 points, but they are now a better side because they have better players and are better coached.

If we are not going to make the finals I hope we can finish as low as possible.

[GVGjr]

Maybe not 123 points, but they are now a better side because they have better players and are better coached.

If we are not going to make the finals I hope we can finish as low as possible.

That is a very weak position to want the club to go down and certainly would be a disaster for memberships.

[Ghost Dog]

Maybe not 123 points, but they are now a better side because they have better players and are better coached.

If we are not going to make the finals I hope we can finish as low as possible.

Unbelievable

[chef]

That is a very weak position to want the club to go down and certainly would be a disaster for memberships.

Could also be the difference in getting a Franklin or a Williams(yes I know it's a compromised draft).

[cinder]

Maybe not 123 points, but they are now a better side because they have better players and are better coached.

If we are not going to make the finals I hope we can finish as low as possible.

Plus, all the good draft picks go straight to GWS don't they? There would be absolutely no benefit. And finishing low would just mean even less members. People don't even sign up when we make the prelims!!

[BulldogBelle]

Plus, all the good draft picks go straight to GWS don't they? There would be absolutely no benefit. And finishing low would just mean even less members. People don't even sign up when we make the prelims!!



GWS will have picks 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the 2011 NAB AFL Draft.

So I'm assuming we would have to finish in the bottom 5 to get a pick int he top 10...

Tanking is stupid given the above and the fact that it will put us in an even worse position with less revenue from memberships and attendances.

[The Coon Dog]

GWS will have picks 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the 2011 NAB AFL Draft.

So I'm assuming we would have to finish in the bottom 5 to get a pick int he top 10...

Tanking is stupid given the above and the fact that it will put us in an even worse position with less revenue from memberships and attendances.

Who gets pick 1?

[cinder]

Who gets pick 1?

GC??

[LostDoggy]

No surprise to me that our season is over - IIRC I even reckoned we weren't too good against the two Qld teams, despite the scores. The signs were clear and waiting to be revealed against quality opponents, but again shouted down here.

I don't think our season is over, but have to agree with this -- my major concern was around the contested ball/clearance stats that we LOST against the GC, but was told in no uncertain terms by various posters that, because we won by 70 points, it's a meaningless stat and it was silly to criticise a team after a score like that (even though it was only against the Sunnybeach Moneygrubbers Under-12s).

Clearance stats may well be meaningless in a team with brilliant defenders or some magical forwardline, but in an even team like ours with very few superstar game-breakers, especially without an in-form Lake to basically cut 5-10 opposition goal scoring chances off every game and Hall to clunk a mark or Johnno and Aker to manufacture magical goals out of their butt, lose the clearance stats against a well-functioning team (and Essendon and WC this year are simply that, no more) and they'll run up a score.

[mjp]

Maybe not 123 points, but they are now a better side because they have better players and are better coached.

If we are not going to make the finals I hope we can finish as low as possible.

West Coast finished dead last in 2010 you know? They only won 4 games. And spent more money on their footy department than all but ONE other team (Pies). I am happy to credit Worsfold with the turnaround, but if you want to do that you also have to debit the failures of the last couple of years, the handling of the Cousins affair etc etc.

I have no doubt if we win only 4 games for the season that Eade will not be reappointed - Worsfold somehow survived that same scenario.

[GVGjr]

Could also be the difference in getting a Franklin or a Williams(yes I know it's a compromised draft).

We could have taken Franklin at 3 so the argument doesnt hold up.
If that is the best reasoning you can come up with then it's no reason at all.

[BulldogBelle]

I don't think our season is over, but have to agree with this -- my major concern was around the contested ball/clearance stats that we LOST against the GC, but was told in no uncertain terms by various posters that, because we won by 70 points, it's a meaningless stat and it was silly to criticise a team after a score like that (even though it was only against the Sunnybeach Moneygrubbers Under-12s).

Clearance stats may well be meaningless in a team with brilliant defenders or some magical forwardline, but in an even team like ours with very few superstar game-breakers, especially without an in-form Lake to basically cut 5-10 opposition goal scoring chances off every game and Hall to clunk a mark or Johnno and Aker to manufacture magical goals out of their butt, lose the clearance stats against a well-functioning team (and Essendon and WC this year are simply that, no more) and they'll run up a score.


So is it the skill or the will of the players?

The skill or the will why we cant win clearances?

The skill or the will why we cant execute our skills under pressure?

Skill or will why we are running as hard as some of the better teams we have come up against?

I think its the will...

With Boyd, Griffin, Cooney, Ward, Libba, Cross etc we have a plethora of inside players who when they want to be can be clearance kings, plus guys like Sherman, Addison, Wallis + Hudson who all arent slouches at extracting the hard ball, wining clearances and contests...

Aker and Johnno didnt do much last season, and our All-Australian bookends have been MIA for the majority of the season, but if we arent getting our paws on the ball first then we dont have a chance.

Something is wrong above the shoulders at the moment for the majority of our players

[LostDoggy]

West Coast finished dead last in 2010 you know? They only won 4 games. And spent more money on their footy department than all but ONE other team (Pies). I am happy to credit Worsfold with the turnaround, but if you want to do that you also have to debit the failures of the last couple of years, the handling of the Cousins affair etc etc.

I have no doubt if we win only 4 games for the season that Eade will not be reappointed - Worsfold somehow survived that same scenario.

This.

There was an article online in The Age I think that compared the two coaches and how it was ludicrous that Rodney was the one under the pump and Worsfold was safe when the former had made the last 3 prelims and the latter had just won the wooden spoon.

Just shows how much sometimes supporters are victims of conventional wisdom rather than objective decision makers.

[LostDoggy]

With Boyd, Griffin, Cooney, Ward, Libba, Cross etc we have a plethora of inside players who when they want to be can be clearance kings, plus guys like Sherman, Addison, Wallis + Hudson who all arent slouches at extracting the hard ball, wining clearances and contests...

Aker and Johnno didnt do much last season, and our All-Australian bookends have been MIA for the majority of the season, but if we arent getting our paws on the ball first then we dont have a chance.

Something is wrong above the shoulders at the moment for the majority of our players

Agree with most of this. I also think our 'clearance kings', as you call them, sometimes forget their limitations and play like millionaires, disregarding their direct opponents and trying dinky stuff that looks brilliant when it comes off but generally just leads to a turnover. Boydy is a much improved player but he's not Lenny Hayes or Gary Ablett and cannot be running around by himself, no matter what his Supercoach scores say.

If the players you've mentioned literally just focus on winning the ball, contesting stoppages, killing the game when necessary etc. we would have one of the most fearsome inside midfields around. Instead sometimes we resemble a marshmallow with a soft centre with opposition players just waltzing in and out of our stoppages at will. No way that should be happening to a team with the body strength and tackling ability of the mids you've mentioned.

[BulldogBelle]

Agree with most of this. I also think our 'clearance kings', as you call them, sometimes forget their limitations and play like millionaires, disregarding their direct opponents and trying dinky stuff that looks brilliant when it comes off but generally just leads to a turnover. Boydy is a much improved player but he's not Lenny Hayes or Gary Ablett and cannot be running around by himself, no matter what his Supercoach scores say.

If the players you've mentioned literally just focus on winning the ball, contesting stoppages, killing the game when necessary etc. we would have one of the most fearsome inside midfields around. Instead sometimes we resemble a marshmallow with a soft centre with opposition players just waltzing in and out of our stoppages at will. No way that should be happening to a team with the body strength and tackling ability of the mids you've mentioned.



So do you think the appropriate team rules and structure are in place, and our midfield group doesnt follow them?

Or do you think our coaching staff havent set a clear direction and structure for players to follow...

Do we hear Rocket constantly saying that certain players arent following instructions?

[chef]

We could have taken Franklin at 3 so the argument doesnt hold up.If that is the best reasoning you can come up with then it's no reason at all.

No argument, just making the point that one draft position can make a hell of a difference. It had nothing to do with Griffen instead of Franklin.

[chef]

West Coast finished dead last in 2010 you know? They only won 4 games. And spent more money on their footy department than all but ONE other team (Pies). I am happy to credit Worsfold with the turnaround, but if you want to do that you also have to debit the failures of the last couple of years, the handling of the Cousins affair etc etc.

I have no doubt if we win only 4 games for the season that Eade will not be reappointed - Worsfold somehow survived that same scenario.

He did, he also changed his philosophy on coaching going from man on man to a zone. His has done wonders for his team IMO(and Scott Burns probably needs a bit of credit for this as well).

[GVGjr]

No argument, just making the point that one draft position can make a hell of a difference. It had nothing to do with Griffen instead of Franklin.

You haven't made a point because additional draft picks or earlier ones mean nothing if you can't don't end up selecting the right people.

[GVGjr]

It's a funny old world. I reckoned we were rubbish from Round 1, but got shouted down here.

No surprise to me that our season is over - IIRC I even reckoned we weren't too good against the two Qld teams, despite the scores. The signs were clear and waiting to be revealed against quality opponents, but again shouted down here.

The game v Pies was telling - we were only in it for a while due their inaccuracy, and then they ran over us just like WCE.

Re the WCE game, I thought we'd get belted but not something like 19 goals to one in a bit over a quarter.

Dunno what the problems are or how to fix them, but I reckon it's a bit rich the way some here and on BF put it all at the feet of Eade. He wasn't out there playing in the last quarter on Sunday.


You predicted the same demise of the club almost exactly 12 months earlier (check your posts) and we finished in the top 4 and I think you indicated the same 12 months before that. You eventually got it right.

[chef]

You haven't made a point because additional draft picks or earlier ones mean nothing if you can't don't end up selecting the right people.


In 2002 we finished 2 points clear of Freo in 12th position. They had pick 3(which they traded to Brissie) and we had pick 4. We would have picked Brennan(according to Clayton) if he was available instead we ended up with Walsh. One pick can(but not always) make a hell of a difference.

[alwaysadog]

So do you think the appropriate team rules and structure are in place, and our midfield group doesnt follow them?

Or do you think our coaching staff havent set a clear direction and structure for players to follow...

Do we hear Rocket constantly saying that certain players arent following instructions?

It's a confusion.

Coaches have more to do than set patterns, even half the posters on this board could do that.

When coaches say that players aren't following instructions you have to wonder about how effective the coaching has been, and ask has the coaching been clear, does the supposed direction and structure stand up in the heat of battle, do the players have faith in it, or are our players just wilful, ie they know better but prefer to lose?

When the rhetoric is deconstructed the latter doesn't make much sense does it?

[LostDoggy]

Question for the WOOFers.
What is the biggest loss (margin wise) ever by a Premiership team within that season?
Anyone?

[GVGjr]

In 2002 we finished 2 points clear of Freo in 12th position. They had pick 3(which they traded to Brissie) and we had pick 4. We would have picked Brennan(according to Clayton) if he was available instead we ended up with Walsh. One pick can(but not always) make a hell of a difference.

So by your own admission it's a risky road to go down but you are still prepared to deliberately have the team drop games to move up the draft ladder for what would no doubt be a mid range draft pick. You still haven't convinced me that jeopardizing memberships and sponsorship by dropping games is the right way to go.

[Dry Rot]

You predicted the same demise of the club almost exactly 12 months earlier (check your posts)

Demise is a bit over the top isn't it?


de·mise *!(d-mz)
n.
1.
a. Death.
b. The end of existence or activity; termination: the demise of the streetcar.
2. Law Transfer of an estate by lease or will.
3. The transfer of a ruler's authority by death or abdication.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/demise

Never said the club would fold, a meteor would hit Whitten Oval etc. IIRC I did say we didn't have the team, structures etc to win the flag in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008.

As you say, I got it right this year, so let's look at the rest. As you suggested, I checked my posts:

Season 2010

Posted 4/4/10


AgainI think you're misunderstanding the context of this, or I haven't connected it clearly. ;)

The Bulldogs Bite has questioned the structure of forward line and noted the ease with which the Pies rebounded. I think he's made some reasonable points and maybe our critics who claimed that our forward line could suffer with so many older players might be right.

I suspect we've seen the best of Aker and Johnno, and throw in Hall and Hahn and sometimes Minson and we look top heavy and slow up forward.

- Correct call. Hall's 80 goals and late season injuries can't hide the fact we couldn't beat teams above us.

Season 2009

Posted 12/8/09 in an exchange with Ozza


I have to say - as much as we hear about the Dogs being such a high scoring team, we simply don't get much out of our Inside 50s against the best sides. We turn the ball over by heading into a forward line that loses its structure under increased pressure.

Its often said that 'the way to beat the bulldogs is to expose them with your key forwards' - but I think that is rubbish. We have a very good record against Brisbane with their 'twin towers' and we will beat them this week because they lack a bit of quality in defence.


Agreed - whatever works against lesser sides, doesn't against the best ones.

- Correct call

Posted 7/9/09


Who are you thinking of?

Interesting that if we don't make the GF (and I don't think we'll get past the Saints) then a few here are now effectively coming round to my view of doing a rebuild. Our window will have closed with this team (if it was ever open) .

- Correct call

As an aside, here's a prescient post from Mantis late 2009 - posted 8/9/09


Neither will I, but if we don't grasp our opportunity this year we need to make some changes to the list and to the personnel we select on a regular basis.

- Correct call

Season 2008

Posted 9/1/08 - early concerns about needing a changed game plan


IMHO this year it is more important for us - not winning the final but how we go about playing.

I hear the players are a bit bigger, so let's see them throw their weight around. I want to see us start winning clearnaces with Hudson and see how the Minson as a forward experiment begins to pan out. Also like to see some signs of a varied gameplan and better defence.

All that should win us some games but for me the important bit is how we try to play differently (and better).

- Correct call

20/9/08


Perhaps they were all carrying injuries, but it looked to me that time has caught up with Johnno, Aker, Welsh, Hudson and Eagleton for the last half of the season.

What can we expect from them next season?

- Correct call

Posted 19/9/08
Re: Another Prelim Loss


On an hour delay in Sydney, but I reckon we've done well for a side without a forward line nor a system of delivering to it.

- Correct call for a few years as it turned out.


You eventually got it right.

I'd say I've been right all along. I've enjoyed each season, but I had a fair idea how it would end better than many here.

Sometime realism isn't very popular.

[chef]

So by your own admission it's a risky road to go down but you are still prepared to deliberately have the team drop games to move up the draft ladder for what would no doubt be a mid range draft pick. You still haven't convinced me that jeopardizing memberships and sponsorship by dropping games is the right way to go.

Not deliberately drop games, but deliberately getting games into the next generation and not worrying as much about the score board or ladder position.

[chef]

Sometime realism isn't very popular.

I agree.

[Bulldog Joe]

I'd say I've been right all along. I've enjoyed each season, but I had a fair idea how it would end better than many here.

Sometime realism isn't very popular.

Hindsight is wonderful, but this is just a celebration of failure to justify pessimism.

While I am extremely disappointed with our current position I prefer to retain a glass half full outlook rather than your glass half empty viewpoint.

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=Dry Rot;217141]

I'd say I've been right all along. I've enjoyed each season, but I had a fair idea how it would end better than many here.

QUOTE]

Thats an amazing attitude.

[Ghost Dog]

Not deliberately drop games, but deliberately getting games into the next generation and not worrying as much about the score board or ladder position.

We must win. We have to approach each game with the mindset that we are better than them even if the odds are against us. We need young players and older players to do it.

[soupman]

In 2002 we finished 2 points clear of Freo in 12th position. They had pick 3(which they traded to Brissie) and we had pick 4. We would have picked Brennan(according to Clayton) if he was available instead we ended up with Walsh. One pick can(but not always) make a hell of a difference.

That's all well and good but once you get past say pick 3 or 4 it usually becomes a very open field, so much so that being happy to lose multiple games to claim a spot 2 picks higher is just not worth it. If the option is pick 8 with losses or pick 10 you are going to choose pick 10.

[1eyedog]

We must win. We have to approach each game with the mindset that we are better than them even if the odds are against us. We need young players and older players to do it.

We also need the supporters to back the team in when the shieser hits the fan

[Murphy'sLore]

I wish this week's game wasn't on at such bloody awful time. Twilight on a school night is just impossible for us.

Will just have to settle for being there in spirit.

[LostDoggy]

We also need the supporters to back the team in when the shieser hits the fan

Wearing my raincoat, ready to repel said sheiser and stick fat.