Josh Hill at the crossroads

[Ghost Dog]

Needs to lift his chin up; may already find himself on the way out.
A young man in bad need of confidence.
A new club may invigorate him, if we can't manage it.
The frustrating thing is, not the first time he's done this during a loss.
Hope he can turn it into a learning experience, but may not be given another chance...
Moving foward Josh.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-forward-josh-hill-at-the-crossroads/story-e6frf9jf-1226069728948

Josh Hill's inconsistent career at the Western Bulldogs has hit a new low after a lame attempt to stand the mark in the final minutes of the club's 61-point loss to Geelong on Saturday.

Hill faces the axe for Friday's clash with St Kilda and may struggle to play another game at the club after the incident, highlighted by Dogs legend Chris Grant.

Outmarked by Daniel Menzel, Hill then half-raised one arm on the mark and partly turned away as the young Cat kicked for goal, killing off any chance of smothering the set shot.

Grant told ABC radio that Hill should never play for the club again.

"He spat the dummy. He's ... actually walked away from the mark as Menzel was coming in," Grant said.

"He could have smothered the ball. Disgraceful effort.

"Robert Murphy's come over to him and said, 'What are you doing?' They've actually looked at Josh Hill and said, 'Do you want to play AFL football? I don't think you do'."

[BulldogBelle]

Does anyone know if Josh will be contracted at the end of this season?

Would rather GWS taking Josh Hole than Callan Ward.

[G-Mo77]

Does anyone know if Josh will be contracted at the end of this season?

Would rather GWS taking Josh Hole than Callan Ward.

He's out of contract after this season. Yes GWS are welcome to him as far as I'm concerned. He's been given so many chances and continues to disappoint.

Permanent VFL spot for the remainder of 2011. Let someone else who wants to play AFL football his spot!

[Sockeye Salmon]

Does anyone know if Josh will be contracted at the end of this season?

Would rather GWS taking Josh Hole than Callan Ward.

Now all we have to do is convince Kevin Sheedy and Gubby Allen

[G-Mo77]

Now all we have to do is convince Kevin Sheedy and Gubby Allen

Sheedy loves a project, sell it to him that way.

[Ghost Dog]

It's not an easy crossover to Melbourne for many in the west, let alone indig kids. He has a young family too. Josh, if you read this mate, just enjoy your footy, work hard , and keep your chin up. Never give in. Get a bit of dog spirit in you mate.

It's very easy to pot a player but we're all armchair coaches. Just to play devil's advo, How much blame can we give the club for not facilitating and encouraging him in the right way? It's never 100% someone's fault they don't succeed at a club, when clearly the talent is there. What other factors are there in this, we will not know.

[Hotdog60]

It's not an easy crossover to Melbourne for many in the west, let alone indig kids. He has a young family too. Josh, if you read this mate, just enjoy your footy, work hard , and keep your chin up. Never give in. Get a bit of dog spirit in you mate.

It's very easy to pot a player but we're all armchair coaches. Just to play devil's advo, How much blame can we give the club for not facilitating and encouraging him in the right way? It's never 100% someone's fault they don't succeed at a club, when clearly the talent is there. What other factors are there in this, we will not know.

Maybe old fashion work ethic might help, youth of today want everything handed on a platter without earning it. I see so many examples of this at work. God I sound like my old man.:o

[Ghost Dog]

Maybe old fashion work ethic might help, youth of today want everything handed on a platter without earning it. I see so many examples of this at work. God I sound like my old man.:o

My point exactly.

A. Younger generation needs instant feedback these days.
B. Don't respond well to sprays and tend to sulk. As much as we hate it, and seems a chore, have to be encouraged encouraged and then some and demand more patience, something Rocket may or may not be good at, I suspect not.
C. Hear from Tradesmen all the time, alot of apprentices are useless until they are 22+.
Has to be more work done to build up their mental toughness and perhaps the NZ camp thing might have to be done more often, I dunno.

I know exactly what you are saying Hotdog and I'm talking more as a teacher, without any clue about coaching footy, but perhaps the mechanisms need to be in place to help toughen certain young players up in a way that didn't need to be done in Rocket's generation.

[LostDoggy]

My point exactly.

A. Younger generation needs instant feedback these days.
B. Don't respond well to sprays and tend to sulk. As much as we hate it, and seems a chore, have to be encouraged encouraged and then some and demand more patience, something Rocket may or may not be good at, I suspect not.
C. Hear from Tradesmen all the time, alot of apprentices are useless until they are 22+.
Has to be more work done to build up their mental toughness and perhaps the NZ camp thing might have to be done more often, I dunno.

I know exactly what you are saying Hotdog and I'm talking more as a teacher, without any clue about coaching footy, but perhaps the mechanisms need to be in place to help toughen certain young players up in a way that didn't need to be done in Rocket's generation.

Whilst I agree to a certain degree, at this level you shouldn't have to teach heart, pride and respect for the fact you are being given a place at the elite level. I lived in Darwin for many years and gained a strong insight into the challenges our indigenous players face when brought down from the communities. The thing is this club has done everything it can to mitigate that with a liason manager to help settle the remote players. I don't see the same weak spririt from D.J who comes from a community near Gove, Liam Jones has a damn decent crack and is learning fast and then there is Stack who has no-where near Hill's natural talent IMO but is probably on-par with Hill footy wise ATM and has now probably gone ahead. I don't think this is a relocation thing.

Likewise, these young blokes in Jones, Libba, Wallis, DJ etc are all copping the same blasts from Eade that the rest of the guys are and they still manage to have a crack so he doesn't get a pass from me for being Generation Y.

This is a JOSH HILL issue that relates to Josh Hill showing utter, spineless disregard for the opportunity to pull on our jumper.

If we were not embarrassed about the season before, Hill single-handedly turned our jumper into a Joke in front of the Geelong crowd and players. We shouldn't stand for it, we can't stand for it and the person committing this gutless act has to go. I'm very angry with Hill for what he made this club look like on the weekend and I have never been this frustrated with a player in 39 years. I feel so sorry for those of you who made it to Kardinia Park (Skilled whatever). :mad:

[GVGjr]

Sheedy loves a project, sell it to him that way.

Sheedy won't be the only suitor given Fantasia said during last seasons trade period that others said he's a top 20 draft pick and he agreed with them.

[AndrewP6]

If we were not embaressed about the season before, Hill single-handedly turned our jumper into a Joke in front of the Geelong crowd and players. We shouldn't stand for it, we can't stand for it and the gutless wonder has to go. I hate Hill for what he made this club look like on the weekend and I have never hated a player wearing this jumper in 39 years. I feel so sorry for those of you who made it to Kardinia Park (Skilled whatever).



Wow, don't hold back. :)

[Remi Moses]

Nothing Personal But Josh is finished at the club.

[Ghost Dog]

Whilst I agree to a certain degree, at this level you shouldn't have to teach heart, pride and respect for the fact you are being given a place at the elite level. I lived in Darwin for many years and gained a strong insight into the challenges our indigenous players face when brought down from the communities. The thing is this club has done everything is can to mitigate that with a liason manager to help settle the remoter players. I don't see the same weak spririt from D.J who comes from a community near Gove, Liam Jones has a damn decent crack and is learning fast and then there is Stack who has no-where near Hill's natural talent IMO but is probably on-par with Hill footy wise ATM and has now probably gone ahead. I don't think this is a relocation thing.

Likewise, these young blokes in Jones, Libba, Wallis, DJ etc are all copping the same blasts from Eade that the rest of the guys are and they still manage to have a crack so he doesn't get a pass from me for being Generation Y.

This is a JOSH HILL issue that relates to Josh Hill showing utter, spineless disregard for the opportunity to pull on our jumper.

If we were not embaressed about the season before, Hill single-handedly turned our jumper into a Joke in front of the Geelong crowd and players. We shouldn't stand for it, we can't stand for it and the gutless wonder has to go. I hate Hill for what he made this club look like on the weekend and I have never hated a player wearing this jumper in 39 years. I feel so sorry for those of you who made it to Kardinia Park (Skilled whatever).


Well, if Josh reads this thread, he gains an insight into how passionate Bulldogs supporters can be. Welcome to the AFL.
The last few sentences a bit emotional but, there you have it. People get pretty tribal with the jumper and what it represents, always ready to sniff out anyone who lets it down.
I guess I try to make a post imagining the person might read it. Tough but fair. He's given his knockers a lot of ammo.

respect the fact you've lived in Darwin.
Sounds like for many supporters, it's a done deal.
Especially with those simple things like standing properly on the mark. I mean that's U13s stuff.
His body language is saying ' I want out'

[LostDoggy]

Well, if Josh reads this thread, he gains an insight into how passionate Bulldogs supporters can be. Welcome to the AFL.
The last few sentences a bit emotional but, there you have it. People get pretty tribal with the jumper and what it represents, always ready to sniff out anyone who lets it down.
I guess I try to make a post imagining the person might read it. Tough but fair. He's given his knockers a lot of ammo.

respect the fact you've lived in Darwin.
Sounds like for many supporters, it's a done deal.
Especially with those simple things like standing properly on the mark. I mean that's U13s stuff.
His body language is saying ' I want out'

Yeah, may have gone slightly over but I'm done with him. I got more and more frustrated as I was writing with a recurring image of Hill turning away from the mark... :rolleyes:

[bornadog]

Yeah, may have gone slightly over but I'm done with him. I got more and more frustrated as I was writing with a recurring image of Hill turning away from the mark... :rolleyes:

He needs to be dropped, but not for just one week. He has to go back to Willi, and really show he wants to play senior footy.

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah, may have gone slightly over but I'm done with him. I got more and more frustrated as I was writing with a recurring image of Hill turning away from the mark... :rolleyes:

But the thing is, I distinctly recall him doing this in another game. Can't remember which one. Senility!

[Sockeye Salmon]

I have been called the most blue sky, club-is-always-right, every-player-is-a-star poster on this board.

And I just might be.





Josh Hill should never wear the Tri-Colour again.




There. I said it.

[Desipura]

I have been called the most blue sky, club-is-always-right, every-player-is-a-star poster on this board.

And I just might be.





Josh Hill should never wear the Tri-Colour again.




There. I said it.
Im glad you said it. I was contemplating saying it but knew there would be some backlash.
You on the other hand..........

[Bulldog Revolution]

Josh Hill should never wear the Tri-Colour again.

There. I said it.

I'm not quite as emphatic as that, although it is pretty apparent he will be dropped this week, and deservedly so. He's had a quiet few weeks and he was somewhat lucky to get re-promoted from the VFL last time. I'm also pretty frustrated with his play, but more frustrated with the team overall.

However, I think the media, and supporters are looking for answers in 2011, and this week Josh has become an easy scape goat. If its not Josh this week, it's Lake and Dimma. The reality of our 2011 situation is more complex and lots of players/coaches/mgmt are responsible.

So I think he's been disappointing and I'd really like to see him develop a hunger and harder edge to his game. I know its maybe against his nature and I'm maybe kidding himself.

But I haven't put a line through him completely yet! The next 10 odd weeks are going to be very long, and if he wants it enough I'm happy to play him.

[LostDoggy]

Unfortunately Jarrod Grant is heading the same way.
Higgins next?
Lake
See Everritt

We wont have many talented youngsters left.

Some weeks back I was calling for Josh's head and said he should never play again after a similar performance, I reckon he looked away while putting one hand up for a mark on the wing.

I am just starting to wonder if we are doing something very wrong with these guys.

[bornadog]

Unfortunately Jarrod Grant is heading the same way.
Higgins next?
Lake
See Everritt

We wont have many talented youngsters left.

Some weeks back I was calling for Josh's head and said he should never play again after a similar performance, I reckon he looked away while putting one hand up for a mark on the wing.

I am just starting to wonder if we are doing something very wrong with these guys.

Has he lost his passion for the game? When we are losing does he go into his shell? Earlier in the year he played some very good games and looked like he turned it around. He appeared on the Marngrook footy show and was very positive about his footy.

What the hell has gone wrong here?

[LostDoggy]

I'm not quite as emphatic as that, although it is pretty apparent he will be dropped this week, and deservedly so. He's had a quiet few weeks and he was somewhat lucky to get re-promoted from the VFL last time. I'm also pretty frustrated with his play, but more frustrated with the team overall.

However, I think the media, and supporters are looking for answers in 2011, and this week Josh has become an easy scape goat. If its not Josh this week, it's Lake and Dimma. The reality of our 2011 situation is more complex and lots of players/coaches/mgmt are responsible.

So I think he's been disappointing and I'd really like to see him develop a hunger and harder edge to his game. I know its maybe against his nature and I'm maybe kidding himself.

But I haven't put a line through him completely yet! The next 10 odd weeks are going to be very long, and if he wants it enough I'm happy to play him.

Interesting post. Yes, the media are definately hanging Josh out to dry based on one incident and I actually don't buy into that palaver. My issue is that this is the culmination of seemingly repeated distain for the tri-colour. He has no apparent work-rate, he has turned up previously completely under-done, his second efforts seem non-existent and I just don't see any desire to improve being demonstrated match-day. Good bye Josh and what a tragic waste for both you and our club.

[bornadog]

Trade p/work lodged - Western Bulldogs exchange Josh Hill to West Coast for its on-traded rd 3 pick (49)

[GVGjr]

Trade p/work lodged - Western Bulldogs exchange Josh Hill to West Coast for its on-traded rd 3 pick (49)

It's not a great deal to be honest but could we really have expected more?
I think this is one of those deals that could bite us on the arse unless it's also linked to a trade.

[anfo27]

It's not a great deal to be honest but could we really have expected more?
I think this is one of those deals that could bite us on the arse unless it's also linked to a trade.

I tend to agree with you on this.

[w3design]

Thank god he has gone Lazy,Weak And no respect for the Bulldogs jumper.

[LostDoggy]

It's not a great deal to be honest but could we really have expected more?
I think this is one of those deals that could bite us on the arse unless it's also linked to a trade.

You think he's going to turn his career around, get his head out of dreamland and become a consistent footballer?

[GVGjr]

You think he's going to turn his career around, get his head out of dreamland and become a consistent footballer?

Why not, some players need that extra chance or two.

[The Doctor]

wouldn't surprise me if he had an Andrew walker type year and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't!!!

[anfo27]

You think he's going to turn his career around, get his head out of dreamland and become a consistent footballer?

Hill would not be worth more than we got. Pick 49 in this draft i not much chop at all. Has Hill got the talent to turn his career around and burn us? Yes. Will Hill turn his career around? Wait & see i guess.

[Mantis]

It's not a great deal to be honest but could we really have expected more?
I think this is one of those deals that could bite us on the arse unless it's also linked to a trade.

Considering we were offered much better last year it isn't all that great, but I guess it's a matter of take what you can for a player whose talents we couldn't untap on a consistent basis.

In the right role he could go ok at WC... especially on a suitable ground.

[Murphy'sLore]

Going home might help his head, too.

[GVGjr]

Considering we were offered much better last year it isn't all that great, but I guess it's a matter of take what you can for a player whose talents we couldn't untap on a consistent basis.

In the right role he could go ok at WC... especially on a suitable ground.

Without going over old ground again but last years proposed deal that we declined was reasonable and this year we have slipped back a bit further.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Without going over old ground again but last years proposed deal that we declined was reasonable and this year we have slipped back a bit further.

Im just thankful its over given the posturing over the two years trade periods

Both parties needed a fresh start

[KT31]

Honest its not a perfect deal, but he was a list clogger and needed to go.
Will play games next year (most likely against us) and being at home may help, in the end he will revert back to taking the easy road.
Hopefully we can pick up a kid who has a bit of heart and will be an asset to the list.

[Remi Moses]

Should have had his papers stamped after that lamentable effort against Geelong

[Sockeye Salmon]

Will never be an AFL footballer

Any deal would have been a win for us.

[LostDoggy]

Will never be an AFL footballer

Any deal would have been a win for us.

Disagree. I reckon he could really thrive out west — (Sorry Mantis, didn't realise you'd said the same thing up higher). He's part of The Hated now, but I reckon he'll do alright.

[bornadog]

Hill Heads Back West (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/westernbulldogsnewsfeatures/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/125186/default.aspx)

The Western Bulldogs today confirmed they have agreed to trade utility Josh Hill to the West Coast Eagles.

In return for 22 year-old Hill, the Bulldogs will receive pick 49 - an early third round selection - in next month’s AFL National Draft.

Hill came to the Whitten Oval as a fourth round selection in the 2006 NAB AFL National Draft, making his senior debut in 2007.

Recruited from Claremont in Western Australia, Hill played 66 senior games for the Bulldogs kicking 75 goals.

An irregular starter in the Bulldogs line-up in 2011, Hill played 12 senior games.

Hill is the second Bulldog to find a new home this trade week, after midfielder Sam Reid was traded to Greater Western Sydney in return for a compensation draft pick.

Meanwhile, retired Bulldog Ben Hudson has been traded to the Brisbane Lions in return for pick 70 - a fourth round selection.

[Ghost Dog]

Honest its not a perfect deal, but he was a list clogger and needed to go.
Will play games next year (most likely against us) and being at home may help, in the end he will revert back to taking the easy road.
Hopefully we can pick up a kid who has a bit of heart and will be an asset to the list.

Honestly, could you expect any higher for him??
Thanks for the memories Josh
Santa, bring us a dark horse at pick 49 for christmas please.

[anfo27]

Honestly, could you expect any higher for him??
Thanks for the memories Josh
Santa, bring us a dark horse at pick 49 for christmas please.

Something like a Takeover Target would be nice.

[Scraggers]

I want a fresh start, says new Eagle Hill

West Coast recruit Josh Hill has promised to improve his physical condition during the pre-season, saying he needed a fresh start to resuscitate his flagging career.

The 22-year-old WA forward secured a ticket home yesterday after the Western Bulldogs gave Hill to the Eagles in exchange for pick No.49.

The swap was part of a complex four-club deal finalised in the last two hours of the AFL trade period that allowed Brad Ebert to return home to South Australia to join Port Adelaide.

New club Greater Western Sydney had earlier cleared the way for negotiations by trading selection 49 to the Power for veterans Dean Brogan and Chad Cornes, with pick 69.

Port then gave up 28 and 49 to West Coast and received 45 and 21-year-old Ebert in return, with the young midfielder leaving Perth after four seasons and 76 AFL matches.

Hill said he had been keen to move on from the Dogs after having been floated as trade bait last year.

LINK (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/eagles/10487349/i-want-a-fresh-start-says-new-eagle-hill/)

[bornadog]

West Coast recruit Josh Hill has promised to improve his physical condition during the pre-season, saying he needed a fresh start to resuscitate his flagging career..[/B]

too bad he didn't do that with us:mad:

[AndrewP6]

This line amused me... "I'm not going to come in thinking it's all going to be easy,"....funny, that's how he comes across when you watch him.

[mjp]

too bad he didn't do that with us:mad:

Leopards don't change their spots.

I am sure the Claremont reserves will appreciate having access to his services...after all, every other small forward on West Coast's list already plays there.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I recall a big article about Josh where he said something along the lines of.........
almost being traded last year was a wake up call and he was ready to prove his worth to the Bulldogs.
"best pre season ever" etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc (vomit)
Was in one of the major papers.
What a load of toss.

He has all the talent in the world but is lazy and soft.
There I've said it.
It's a shame because he really was great to watch when things went his way.
But when they didn't?
Zero.

[Ghost Dog]

I recall a big article about Josh where he said something along the lines of.........
almost being traded last year was a wake up call and he was ready to prove his worth to the Bulldogs.
"best pre season ever" etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc (vomit)
Was in one of the major papers.
What a load of toss.

He has all the talent in the world but is lazy and soft.
There I've said it.
It's a shame because he really was great to watch when things went his way.
But when they didn't?
Zero.


Simply calling players ' soft' CAN be a cop out. I'm not saying it was in this case, but we have other players like Josh ( Higgins ) who often don't seem as ferocious as we want them to be. Josh looked much better at willy after Rocket left. Just my take.
In short, there are ways to help players get the best out of themselves and going the punitive road is not always the best option. at the end of the day, patience is exhausted and whatever methods that were tried did not work. Good time for a change.
And sometimes even that does no good. Everitt for example.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Simply calling players ' soft' CAN be a cop out. I'm not saying it was in this case, but we have other players like Josh ( Higgins ) who often don't seem as ferocious as we want them to be. Josh looked much better at willy after Rocket left. Just my take.
In short, there are ways to help players get the best out of themselves and going the punitive road is not always the best option. at the end of the day, patience is exhausted and whatever methods that were tried did not work. Good time for a change.
And sometimes even that does no good. Everitt for example.

I watched Josh in the VFL grand final and he just did what he has always done.
Flashes of smooth classy football interspersed with lazy, selfish pissweak efforts.
Long after Rocket was gone.

[Topdog]

Honestly, could you expect any higher for him??
Thanks for the memories Josh
Santa, bring us a dark horse at pick 49 for christmas please.

Well we got offered more last year but.....

Glad he is gone.

[G-Mo77]

I watched Josh in the VFL grand final and he just did what he has always done.
Flashes of smooth classy football interspersed with lazy, selfish pissweak efforts.
Long after Rocket was gone.

Agree with that. I was pleasantly surprised up until that point but it was the same player deep down. He may do well in a new system, who knows but honestly he's gone, we got good value for him and don't really care what he does now.

[Mofra]

I watched Josh in the VFL grand final and he just did what he has always done.
Flashes of smooth classy football interspersed with lazy, selfish pissweak efforts.
Long after Rocket was gone.
Very dfifferent from his prelim form which I thought was much better.
That sums him up really - I think he will play good football for West Coast, I just think there is next to no chance he will do it for 2 games in a row.

He's just inconsistent in every aspect of his football.

[The Doctor]

Remember the fanfare of the 2006 draft period with all the brothers arriving at once?

Stack, Hill, Lynch and Harbrow, now all but gone.

So too Hughes, Pask and West from the rookie list long gone

throw in Everitt and Aker who we traded for that year we have nothing left.