Game Day 2011 - R12 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for our Friday night game against St Kilda at ES.

My predictions are:

The Dogs by 17 points
BOG : Daniel Cross
Ryan Griffen to kick the first goal.

[SlimPickens]

Dogs 12 pts
BOG: Brian Lake (Possibly wishful thinking)
First Goal: Gia

[ratsmac]

Dogs win by a lot, season back on track.
BOG - Cooney shows brownlow form.
First Goal -Dollhouse, the start of a dinisty.

Maybe my positive thinking will filter through to the club.:D

[DragzLS1]

Dogs by 11 points
BOG Boyd (mad disposals and has a ripper game with the help of cooney)
1st Goal Gia

[bulldogsthru&thru]

hate to put a negative spin on things:

Saints by 27 points
BOG (Dogs): Boyd
1st Goal: Gia

[LostDoggy]

Can't tip against my boys, so:

Dogs by 15 points
BOG = Ward (who needs GWS!!!)
First goal = Gia

[Daughter of the West]

I'm putting my positive hat on for tomorrow night:

Dogs by 3 with a snap goal in the last minute
BOG - Gia
First goal - Big Will

[LostDoggy]

Saints by 5 points in a dour thriller that we let slip again.

BOG: Kim Duthie comments
First goal: Clint Jones - push in back, too high & 50m from centre bounce. Will thought he still had the ball.

[LostDoggy]

Another must-win do or die like the Richmond game..

Dogs by 7pts
BOG: Griff
First Goal: Minno

[G-Mo77]

Saints by 37 points

For us:

First Goal: Jones
BOG: Boyd.

[LostDoggy]

If we kick FG we will lose. If we don't we got a chance. Seems when we kick FG we lose (From memory, not stats)

[Remi Moses]

Nil Nil after 4 Terms
Dogs on penalties
(going on last years game)

[Sedat]

Because I was so on the money last week (:o) I'm predicting the Saints to win by 45 points, with Fisher getting BOG and Schneider the first goal.

[Go_Dogs]

Saints by 17.
BOG Morris
First goal Jones

[Greystache]

Saints by 35
BOG- Riewoldt
First goal- Gia

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Dogs back in town and win by 18 points
BOG - Bob Murphy
1st Goal - Higgins

[LostDoggy]

If we kick FG we will lose. If we don't we got a chance. Seems when we kick FG we lose (From memory, not stats)

Silly stat but it works for most games

[LostDoggy]

We win this one --

I saw a few good signs near the end of the Geelong game that will carry over, and despite media darling Ross Lyon getting a free ride compared to Rocket, St.Kilda's loss against Collingwood was as bad as anything we dished up last week. Wish Lake was playing in the forwardline this week.

[Ozza]

Really hope I'm wrong - and would prefer to NOT be at the Dome tonight - but I think the saints will get us.

St.Kilda by 23
BOG for us - Ryan Griffen (who else).
First Goal - Gia to slip away from Dempster and kick the first.

[LostDoggy]

Really hope I'm wrong - and would prefer to NOT be at the Dome tonight - but I think the saints will get us.

St.Kilda by 23
BOG for us - Ryan Griffen (who else).
First Goal - Gia to slip away from Dempster and kick the first.

You have got it wrong dogs by 23...

[Ozza]

You have got it wrong dogs by 23...

Hope you're right...barrack hard in my absence.

[Scraggers]

Dogs by 17 points

First goal Big Wil Minson

BOG Liam Picken

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 17 points

1st Goal Gia

BOG Griffin

[chef]

Saints by 42
First goal Griffen
BOG Griffen

[Ghost Dog]

Saints by 10
BOG Goddard
First Goal, Gia

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Saints by 24
BOG Goddard
First goal: Higgins.

[DOG GOD]

Saints by 28
BOG Goddard
1st goal Milne

[GVGjr]

I'm enjoying our effort tonight particularly that Rocket is doing very well with the match-ups.
The game is poised to be a good one and a close contest.

[Ghost Dog]

Boyd answering his critics. Good on him. Howard impressive too. Well Done Gia. Saints misses leaving the door open

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm enjoying our effort tonight particularly that Rocket is doing very well with the match-ups.
The game is poised to be a good one and a close contest.

A good struggle against two teams who just don't seem to have too much confidence in their own games.
Just feel as if our goals are having to be earned that little bit harder, whilst St Kilda seem able to score quickly from our mistakes.

[Ghost Dog]

Our new lads doing very well. Djkrra- doll house . Blowing our chances on goal now. Jones is leaning back on his kicks, missing badly. His kicking action needs attention. Higgins also, kicking so flat to packs, St Kilda players swallow it up

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Just stupid lack of awareness from Djerrkura and Sherman.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Unless something unusual happens in the last, I can't see us suddenly finding an easy avenue to scoring multiple goals.
At least tonight so far, Higgins, Boyd and Williams have responded well. And Barlow, Djerrkura and Dahlhaus have added something new to the mix to build on.

[KT31]

Just stupid lack of awareness from Djerkerra and Sherman.

Amateur stuff.

[Ghost Dog]

Unless something unusual happens in the last, I can't see us suddenly finding an easy avenue to scoring multiple goals.
At least tonight so far, Higgins, Boyd and Williams have responded well. And Barlow, Djerkerra and Dahlhaus have added something new to the mix to build on.

True, but Higgins? Workrate ok but he's kicked it straight to an opponent so many times. Just seems to be drilling it too flat to a contest.
Murphy leading from the front. 15 mins to decide our season
Sam Gilbert having a shocker...yay
Come on boys
Boyd 35 possessions well done
Our set shots are killing us.

[KT31]

Dahlhaus has shown a bit in his 10 minutes on the ground.
If a few players follow his lead and the umpires pull their head in , we may be a shot.
Fingers crossed.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Game in a nutshell. Miss opportunity after opportunity, Saints get just one and nail it.
It's just heartbreaking to watch.
I know they've had a dip, but I am just so angry right now... the game was right there for the taking in this last quarter, and we've just spent it.

[Ghost Dog]

Game in a nutshell. Miss opportunity after opportunity, Saints get just one and nail it.
It's just heartbreaking to watch.

Schnieder leaves the door open. Come on DOGS
6 minutes to get three goals...
Liam jones slots one....goal!! come on boys. having a crack.

[KT31]

If we were an Asian cricket team an investigation into corruption would be instigated.
How could we miss so many goals by such a great distance.

[Doggy]

Schnieder leaves the door open. Come on DOGS
6 minutes to get three goals...

We have kicked seven for the night, can't see it happening somehow

[Doggy]

As i posted we get one ;)

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

How does the team look at this game. Do they drop their heads from yet another loss, or do they take solace and hope from the fact that they showed constant effort for 4Qtrs, which is something they haven't shown for a long time?

I mean I'm more forlorn after this loss than any in the last month. I'm not sure if that's the combined effect of a terrible month, or whether because for the first time in a month we've had an opportunity to win and blown it.

[Chicago1]

Sad to think that I have seen two of the Doggies three wins this season. And I left the country TWO bloody months ago. :(

[Doggy]

Sad to think that I have seen two of the Doggies three wins this season. And I left the country TWO bloody months ago. :(

When are you coming back? :rolleyes:

[Rance Fan]

Sad to think that I have seen two of the Doggies three wins this season. And I left the country TWO bloody months ago. :(

Will we win another?

[Rance Fan]

Gee the skills were terrible all round tonight...even umps.

[Ghost Dog]

Pretty good effort from most players and well done to the new guys.
Howard, Dollhouse, Libba, some good plays
Gutted at a win gone begging owing to poor set shots but that's sport.

[LostDoggy]

Gee the skills were terrible all round tonight...even umps.

Don't care about the umps. When a team misses shots like the ones in the last term, umps don't matter.

[Hotdog60]

We got crucified by the ump with Cross and the advantage rule. I would have liked Luke Dahlhaus to get a full game, what he brings to the park is what we are missing. Not sold on Barlow seemed a bit lost at the end but he may get better if he gets more chances.

[Rance Fan]

Dahlhaus tackle no free either.?
Barlow not up to it, nor DJ
Ves needs a go

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We got crucified by the ump with Cross and the advantage rule. I would have liked Luke Dahlhaus to get a full game, what he brings to the park is what we are missing. Not sold on Barlow seemed a bit lost at the end but he may get better if he gets more chances.

I disagree on the Cross decision. He took steps and then decided to stop. The rule sucks and no doubt it makes the players confused. But once you make the decision to go, you've got to keep going. Given it was a shot so close, he needed to just not even bother taking a couple of steps. Very stiff, because it's almost reflex to continue with the play, but that's the stupidity of the advantage rule at the moment.

[KT31]

Dahlhaus tackle no free either.?
Barlow not up to it, nor DJ
Ves needs a go

Thought he tried hard early and did a couple of good things.
Certainly not our worst and deserves another shot.
Admit he was abit lost in the last, but it was really the two misses that cost us dearly.

[Hotdog60]

I disagree on the Cross decision. He took steps and then decided to stop. The rule sucks and no doubt it makes the players confused. But once you make the decision to go, you've got to keep going. Given it was a shot so close, he needed to just not even bother taking a couple of steps. Very stiff, because it's almost reflex to continue with the play, but that's the stupidity of the advantage rule at the moment.

Yet they called back Murphy who was playing on, yes it's a stupid rule that if it stays players will need to be more aware of whats around them.

[Rance Fan]

Gee how many times did we handball to a guy standing still less than a foot away!
Not enough kicking, but then again the way we kick it....

[ledge]

Cross and Dalhaus decisions were horrible, would like to see Geishen find excuses for those, and in important parts of the game.
Have we forgotten how to win?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Dahlhaus tackle no free either.?
Barlow not up to it, nor DJ
Ves needs a go

Barlow looked good early I thought, think he's worth perservering with, the tempo change from VFL to AFL looked to have got him. I think it's too rash to say he's not up to it, but needs to take on board the adjustment needed in his reaction time when stepping up to AFL level.

Djerrkura looked good, yep disposed of it poorly (and that has always been his problem), but his defensive pressure up forward was one of the reasons pivotal to us being able to make it hard for St Kilda to get clean movement out of defense.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Yet they called back Murphy who was playing on, yes it's a stupid rule that if it stays players will need to be more aware of whats around them.

That is basically what Paul Williams said at 3Qtr time.

[KT31]

That is basically what Paul Williams said at 3Qtr time.

Maybe if he said it to the players and not the camera's it would have been different.:rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

True, but Higgins? Workrate ok but he's kicked it straight to an opponent so many times. Just seems to be drilling it too flat to a contest.
Murphy leading from the front. 15 mins to decide our season
Sam Gilbert having a shocker...yay
Come on boys
Boyd 35 possessions well done
Our set shots are killing us.

Unfortunately Murph's two errors in the first quarter gave St Kilda two goals though.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Maybe if he said it to the players and not the camera's it would have been different.:rolleyes:

Do you really think that the players haven't been told? I don't think this is a coaching error. It's a very instinctual thing and a very hard rule to adjudicate. I actually feel for the umpires more and more, as the rule changes have made it very hard for umpires to be consistent with certain decisions, like the advantage rule.

[KT31]

Do you really think that the players haven't been told? I don't think this is a coaching error. It's a very instinctual thing and a very hard rule to adjudicate. I actually feel for the umpires more and more, as the rule changes have made it very hard for umpires to be consistent with certain decisions, like the advantage rule.

Sorry YHF, it should have been tongue in cheek not sarcasm.
I realise the players have been told, but they certainly didn't listen.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Sorry YHF, it should have been tongue in cheek not sarcasm.
I realise the players have been told, but they certainly didn't listen.

No worries.. it's just a shit rule change. There has to be a better way to do this. I'd rather no whistle and play continues for a period of time until it's clear there is no advantage and then the whistle blown.

[LostDoggy]

Gee how many times did we handball to a guy standing still less than a foot away!
Not enough kicking, but then again the way we kick it....



Not only that but our players simply refuse to put a shepherd on. The number of players that jogged past admiring their one foot handball while an opponent ran down their team mate. Disgusting and has happened all year.

[LostDoggy]

Not only that but our players simply refuse to put a shepherd on. The number of players that jogged past admiring their one foot handball while an opponent ran down their team mate. Disgusting and has happened all year.

Funny I was thinking you don't see that anymore when I saw Dreadlocks Luke lay a shepherd after giving off a handball.

[kruder]

What do woofers think of Wards season so far? He was great against Richmond but I think he has been average in the majority.

He tries hard, but I dont believe he has the skill and poise to be an A grade player. I want him to stay but for me he resembles boyd cross and picken. Good average footballers.

[GVGjr]

What do woofers think of Wards season so far? He was great against Richmond but I think he has been average in the majority.

He tries hard, but I dont believe he has the skill and poise to be an A grade player. I want him to stay but for me he resembles boyd cross and picken. Good average footballers.

It's a fair point with Ward. I wonder what we could do different with him to get some more value out of him?

[Topdog]

Ask his manager how much GWS would be willing to play for someone who finished the year 2 Williamstown.

[KT31]

Funny I was thinking you don't see that anymore when I saw Dreadlocks Luke lay a shepherd after giving off a handball.

Also spoilt a mark, recieved a handball then ran forward of the play to recieve the next.
These are things we coach our kids and they are not being applied in this team.
To many players standing around with their hands on their hips once they have diposed of the ball.

[bornadog]

What do woofers think of Wards season so far? He was great against Richmond but I think he has been average in the majority.

He tries hard, but I dont believe he has the skill and poise to be an A grade player. I want him to stay but for me he resembles boyd cross and picken. Good average footballers.

The trouble with Ward is he thinks he is faster than he really is. Very poor effort tonight. What do you do, well if he continues like this he should be dropped to find some form.

[jazzadogs]

I disagree on the Cross decision. He took steps and then decided to stop. The rule sucks and no doubt it makes the players confused. But once you make the decision to go, you've got to keep going. Given it was a shot so close, he needed to just not even bother taking a couple of steps. Very stiff, because it's almost reflex to continue with the play, but that's the stupidity of the advantage rule at the moment.
Only a few minutes later, a StKilda player had the ball, umpire called advantage, kick was smothered and it got brought back due to 'no advantage'. Ridiculous. I understand it's a difficult rule to adjudicate, but when in doubt apply common sense FFS.

Dahlhaus was extremely positive in his TOG, disappointed he didn't get a full game. Not sure on bringing in Mulligan anyway, surely a shorter option would have been better against that Saints side?

[Scorlibo]

Not only that but our players simply refuse to put a shepherd on. The number of players that jogged past admiring their one foot handball while an opponent ran down their team mate. Disgusting and has happened all year.

Second that, it is very, very easy to notice the amount of times our forward thrusts are ineffectual because the little give off is not followed by the protective shepherd.


What do woofers think of Wards season so far? He was great against Richmond but I think he has been average in the majority.

He tries hard, but I dont believe he has the skill and poise to be an A grade player. I want him to stay but for me he resembles boyd cross and picken. Good average footballers.

I think he is a much more skilled player than any you have mentioned, he was drafted partly for his kicking skills and they remain very high quality. You mentioned he was great against Richmond, this game he played an atypical role on the half forward flank, coming off the line at break-neck speed, relying on his hands and then utilising some great penetrating kicking. He will only get better, if anything he can get a little lost running into space, I often see him late to man up also not because he's lazy or anything like that, just because it doesn't seem to come naturally to him. At this stage he's very much a see-ball-get-ball sort of player.


The trouble with Ward is he thinks he is faster than he really is. Very poor effort tonight. What do you do, well if he continues like this he should be dropped to find some form.

He is pretty quick. I can't think of an instance of him being run down tonight, so I'm not sure why you would bring this up. I also disagree that he is struggling, he is having many modest games interlaced with the odd pearler.

[Stefcep]

The ladder doesn't lie. Both teams are rubbish.

The decision-making of our players was appalling. With ball handling skills to match.

I was blaming Rocket, but no, these players will get him sacked.

Too many "dumb" players are in this side. Moronic handballs to players under pressure. They had a dip? 4 tackles in the forward 50. Some dip.

Liam Jones spilled a peach of a pass that resulted int a 12 point turnaround at a critical point. Then missed a couple of shots he had to get. Then ignored a free player outside to go inboard to..Cross. Who hit the post. Personally I think he is another "dumb" player, and over-rated.

Dalhaus was a shining light.
Boyd had a day out.

Griffen. I know people love this guy for his effort and run, but... would love to see his career turnovers/holding the ball/missed shots on goal on the run.

Bob Murphy is a class above- EVERYONE needs to get at a DVD of this guy's decision-making, he got caught once, just. Very rare for him to turn it over or give it to a team mate that immediately turns it over.

[KT31]

The ladder doesn't lie. Both teams are rubbish.

The decision-making of our players was appalling. With ball handling skills to match.

I was blaming Rocket, but no, these players will get him sacked.

Too many "dumb" players are in this side.




Not sure if dumb, but selfish and playing for a spot and not the team.

[jazzadogs]

The ladder doesn't lie. Both teams are rubbish.

The decision-making of our players was appalling. With ball handling skills to match.

I was blaming Rocket, but no, these players will get him sacked.

Too many "dumb" players are in this side. Moronic handballs to players under pressure. They had a dip? 4 tackles in the forward 50. Some dip.

Liam Jones spilled a peach of a pass that resulted int a 12 point turnaround at a critical point. Then missed a couple of shots he had to get. Then ignored a free player outside to go inboard to..Cross. Who hit the post. Personally I think he is another "dumb" player, and over-rated.

Dalhaus was a shining light.
Boyd had a day out.

Griffen. I know people love this guy for his effort and run, but... would love to see his career turnovers/holding the ball/missed shots on goal on the run.

Bob Murphy is a class above- EVERYONE needs to get at a DVD of this guy's decision-making, he got caught once, just. Very rare for him to turn it over or give it to a team mate that immediately turns it over.

re: Jones, wait til he's had some games. He's not going to learn it all overnight, but he's shown an ability to clunk the ball. Goalkicking can be improved. The pass to Cross was a good decision, I would prefer him to see a free Dog in the 50 and kick it than analyse who the player is and take longer to make a decision.

re: Griffen, I would argue that his shots on the run aren't too bad but it's his set shots that are no good because of his silly little kink out to the right. He knows that he hooks it around to the right, so should either follow straight through the ball or aim towards the right so that it will curve in. Holding the balls against him would be high because he tries to take on the game and his opponents so often...does need to pick and choose these situations a bit better.

re: Murph, I'm a huge Murph fan but I don't think the bolded is particularly relevant after tonight. Skills weren't at their best and there were a number of costly turnovers.

[LostDoggy]

One of the worst games i've seen in terms of skill and the quality of football played.
Disgusting, in some many ways.
The only real positive i can think of was Dalhaus

On to the other side.
Disposal - there was a period were every second or third pick from both teams were disgusting turnovers. Don't know what the Saints are celebrating, with the way they played, they'll be lucky to win another 2 games

Goal kicking - 7 shots in a row and you kick 1 goal 6? unbelievable

Team Selection part 1 - I'm hoping they knew Cooney wasn't playing, otherwise i can't understand bringing in a tall Defender like Mulligan (not a knock on picking him) over Mitch and Scofield.

Team selection part 2 - Atleast they tried DJ, but how the hell does that get a 3 year deal. Barlow was as expected, for everything good he did, he cancelled it out.

Team Selection part 3 - How tall do we want to play? Minson was incredibly quite because he's just not good as a forward. The fact that you've gone and picked Barlow and have Mulligan and Williams in the backline surely is enough to back up one of the two.

Team Selection part 4 - dalhaus as sub? Atleast he played more than Mitch's first game

Coaching part 1 - No Cooney is a creates a problem, and regardless of the job he did, taking Griff out of the mid to tag a out of form Goddard, lives us with a midfield with just no speed at all. Libba, Picken and Boyd started the 4th Q with Griff on the bench. Love those players, but you can't have all 3 together as a center combo. Sherman provided some, but it's not enough

Coaching part 2 - Subbing Mulligan? Not the worst choice, but surely a ruckman would be better.

Higgins - the man is a mystery. We either get the cleanest, classiest outside player who can sometimes shrink from a contest or the physical, harder Higgins who struggles to complete an efficient kick. If only he could combine the two right he would be just the superstar we've been praying he would be. There's also the going missing Higgins which is the worst of them all.

Umpiring - Wow. Shocking, shocking shocking. No point mentioning the Cross decision, but everything, all game, both teams, everything.

Even Murph and Dale made some un-expected errors. I wouldn't say either was bad, but not up to the high level they've been playing this season.

Jones - Good and Bad. the finishing was disgusting, even his goal, he would have been killed if he missed it as he had a easy handball to barlow in the square.

Stack - actually liked him. He was criticized for getting the 'cherry picking goals' last year, but he finishes and right now, those 'easy' goals and aren't coming. Jumps well and is a good spolier of the ball, particularly as a 3rd man. His disposal isn't great and neither are some of his decisions but he tries. Would definitely prefer him to Hill


Dalhaus - looked great. That spoil was great, had a chance to take a long shot to an open goal, but took the

Williams - Good. Played very well on Riewoldt, and i don't think he got a shot off against him? (the long goal was on Dale i think?)

Ward - atleast this form is going to drop his potential value to GWS

Some of the goals we concede are just infuriating. If we gave 2 of those stupid turnover goals (that we gave away probably 5 in the first half) i would be absolutely fuming, but now, it's just... i can't even explain it

Sorry for the long post, but god this game annoyed me

[Stefcep]

Not sure if dumb, but selfish and playing for a spot and not the team.

FARK if thats why are doing it then piss the lot of em off.

Anyway, how would it help their cause by repeatedly making the wrong choice and putting pressure on a team mate a step away with an opponent on his shoulder ready to pounce?

Actually i'm still dirty on Liam Jones. His decision-making and lack of skills cost 4 goals. I would have dragged him after the sitter he let through his fingers.

[Stefcep]

re: Jones, wait til he's had some games. He's not going to learn it all overnight, but he's shown an ability to clunk the ball. Goalkicking can be improved. The pass to Cross was a good decision, I would prefer him to see a free Dog in the 50 and kick it than analyse who the player is and take longer to make a decision.

even though there was a free player outside calling for it 15-20 m away, and he kicks 45 m in board to the least penetrating kick in the AFL?



re: Griffen, I would argue that his shots on the run aren't too bad but it's his set shots that are no good because of his silly little kink out to the right. He knows that he hooks it around to the right, so should either follow straight through the ball or aim towards the right so that it will curve in. Holding the balls against him would be high because he tries to take on the game and his opponents so often...does need to pick and choose these situations a bit better.

I remember too many low skimmers that don't need to be low skimmers, or long bombs that get mopped up the defense. And yes he takes men on, has all his career. Meanwhile he has two free team mates 10 metres away. He's no longer a 2-3 year AFL player, that sort of decision making should be instinctive for an elite AFL player by now.



re: Murph, I'm a huge Murph fan but I don't think the bolded is particularly relevant after tonight. Skills weren't at their best and there were a number of costly turnovers.

From Murph? Or the game in general?

[Greystache]

Actually i'm still dirty on Liam Jones. His decision-making and lack of skills cost 4 goals. I would have dragged him after the sitter he let through his fingers.

Seriously, has it been that long since we've had a KPF that we don't recognise what a developing one looks like?

Jones looks a potential star of the near future, I'd much prefer to see us persist and develop a player like Jones than continue to ply games into guys like Stack, DJ, and Barlow who should be far more developed at their age than they are.

[Scorlibo]

The decision-making of our players was appalling. With ball handling skills to match.

I was blaming Rocket, but no, these players will get him sacked.

Too many "dumb" players are in this side. Moronic handballs to players under pressure.

I agree with that, the number one quality I would look for in a player is their instinctive decision making. At the moment we have very few players who can be relied on in this area.



Liam Jones spilled a peach of a pass that resulted int a 12 point turnaround at a critical point. Then missed a couple of shots he had to get. Then ignored a free player outside to go inboard to..Cross. Who hit the post. Personally I think he is another "dumb" player, and over-rated.

For all of Jones' efforts and I don't doubt how hard he tried, he was terrible and that ball he dropped was just unacceptable.



Griffen. I know people love this guy for his effort and run, but... would love to see his career turnovers/holding the ball/missed shots on goal on the run.


He got done for one holding the ball, and there was bugger all he could do about it, against 3 guys on the wing, broke one tackle, looked up for options, nothing on short, committed himself to kicking, got no warning from teammates, no support, and was done with a tackle from behind. It's generally very seldom that he gets done for holding the ball. Today was his worst game for the year though.



Bob Murphy is a class above- EVERYONE needs to get at a DVD of this guy's decision-making, he got caught once, just. Very rare for him to turn it over or give it to a team mate that immediately turns it over.

Bob Murphy would have to be my favourite player, and again, I would put his 'errors' today down to teammates not shepherding for him or running for him. It's hard to make decisions when there are no options. He is a gem though, and as this side gets better he will shine.

[LostDoggy]

You have to remeber that Jones is getting the best backman and is our Main target and IMO doing ok for a 20 year old in what is his 2nd season considering his first season on the list he played school footy

[LostDoggy]

F&$@ me and this team I love. How come when we play these guys i feel heart broken and ripped off. So typical, we had every chance to win that game and shanked it with every chancee, one goal six unanswered, very gettable misses. It's just a tease when we play the saints we look like we are all over it but can't do the job.

That cross decision was a killer. I was mortified. But djs misses just rubbed it in. Other than his finishing and decisions he was intense.

A lot of our guys really tried which was good.

Williams played well. Dolly was a revelation. He looked our best player when he came on.
Boyd was great, Murphy too. I liked a lot of Stacks game too. He'll i liked a lot of parts of a lot of our guys games but other bits were attrocious. DJ is the perfect example, an excellent half a footballer.
I thought Ward was very good. Barlow did some good things but some poor.

We need to stick with these young half players and hope they come good in a year or two. Jones is the same great to poor to great to average.

[LostDoggy]

Thought we lacked the poise to finish at critical times. Other than that it was a pretty boring game to watch whether you were a Saints or Dogs fan.

How come Jones is pretty bad with a set shot? Is it his kicking action or what? It's something both he and Grant need to get better at. They miss way too many shots. It's all good if you can take a mark but when you put it behind the big sticks every time it's not going to win the club any games.

I really do hope we can see what Tutt, Schofield and Cordy can do before the year is out.

I liked Howard's game tonight. He seems like he will make it at the level. It's strange because when he played in the NAB Cup he looked lost out there.

[LostDoggy]

Sorry for rambling but i went from no hope to hope so many times tonight and saw so much good work get undone.

[LostDoggy]

I also thought the matchups were pretty good by Eade and co.

[KT31]

, and again, I would put his 'errors' today down to teammates not shepherding for him or running .

Not only Bobby but for the whole lot,you can talk about the press and new innovations to the game ,but if they shephard and run it presents another option without pressure.
Basic footy and should not be needed to be drilled into players at this level.

[The Underdog]

How come Jones is pretty bad with a set shot? Is it his kicking action or what?

It is absolutely his kicking action. Look at what happens with his ball drop, it's stilted as hell, absolutely no smoothness to it. The ball looks like if he dropped it straight onto his foot it'd be an accident.


I was pretty happy with the effort tonight but the skill errors are terrible. Griffen's ball use and decision making were atrocious. Barlow was better than I expected and Dahlhaus gave a real spark. The real shame is that it's often senior players letting us down. For Cross and Griff to miss those goals when they did is just hugely disappointing.
I'm more impressed with Howard than I thought I'd be although I think he still needs to work a bit on his defensive side.

Do we play Cooney again this year, or just let him rest and get himself as right as he can for pre-season? I can see us shutting a few guys down as the season progresses.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We are absolutely woeful. We look disinterested, slow, rushed and lazy. There's literally nothing to like about our performances from a team perspective.

Mulligan, DJ and Barlow really aren't up to this standard of football. Stack isn't far behind. I'd rather we didn't play any of these four going forward, as they offer us very little. DJ has effort - but that's about it. We need more than that.

Hudson is finished - not sure why we bother playing him. All it does is restrict Minson, who is a by far better ruckman now. Minson's energy and effort is very good - but it's limited because he's being asked to play primarily as a KPF.

We've got massive problems going forward. The only thing we can do is inject games into Dahlhaus, Howard, Libba, Jones, Wood, Wallis, Tutt, Schofield and Roughead to hope that they improve rapidly.

The upside:

* Dahl is going to be a player. Very quick, he's always moving. It creates space and he works hard to follow up his work. Thought he was a little unselfish at times, but that's understandable. Very impressed with his game - I like him a lot.

* Howard had a decent game. Still made some errors, and he really isn't a defender at all - always plays from behind. However, he got involved and used the ball reasonably well. There's a bit to work with here.

* Jones didn't have a good game persay, but still showed a lot. Skills let him down and dropped a crucial sitter, but he's only a young kid who is being asked to play as our #1 forward. He's doing a good job of it. He will definitely be a player.

* Wood was better. Won some good contests and used his body well. I'd like to see him take the game on a little more in coming weeks. Perhaps even have a stint or two in the midfield.

[aker39]

Coaching part 2 - Subbing Mulligan? Not the worst choice, but surely a ruckman would be better.


Mulligan was injured.

[LostDoggy]

It is absolutely his kicking action. Look at what happens with his ball drop, it's stilted as hell, absolutely no smoothness to it. The ball looks like if he dropped it straight onto his foot it'd be an accident.


I was pretty happy with the effort tonight but the skill errors are terrible. Griffen's ball use and decision making were atrocious. Barlow was better than I expected and Dahlhaus gave a real spark. The real shame is that it's often senior players letting us down. For Cross and Griff to miss those goals when they did is just hugely disappointing.
I'm more impressed with Howard than I thought I'd be although I think he still needs to work a bit on his defensive side.

Do we play Cooney again this year, or just let him rest and get himself as right as he can for pre-season? I can see us shutting a few guys down as the season progresses.

Eade said in his presser that Cooney will need an operation at the end of the season. So I think it would be best to just get it done now so he can have a full pre-season and get back to senior footy next year. What's the point in bringing him back in? He looks underdone when he plays and the team isn't going to play finals.

[GVGjr]

How come Jones is pretty bad with a set shot? Is it his kicking action or what? It's something both he and Grant need to get better at. They miss way too many shots. It's all good if you can take a mark but when you put it behind the big sticks every time it's not going to win the club any games.



He's been a poor at set shots for goals since we got him and in my opinion we just don't practice that skill well enough.

[aker39]

Eade said in his presser that Cooney will need an operation at the end of the season. So I think it would be best to just get it done now so he can have a full pre-season and get back to senior footy next year. What's the point in bringing him back in? He looks underdone when he plays and the team isn't going to play finals.

I don't want to hear of one player having an operation over summer.
Anyone requiring surgery should have there season cut short and sent straight to the operating table.

[The Underdog]

I don't want to hear of one player having an operation over summer.
Anyone requiring surgery should have there season cut short and sent straight to the operating table.

And they can play next year with that nice early draft pick we'll get that's sandwiched in between GWS's picks.
I have little doubt in our ability at this point to come bottom 4.
We could be lucky to score 100 points in another game this year.

[aker39]

Today was his worst game for the year though.

Goddard has destroyed us the last couple of years.

Griff did a very good containing him and at least broke even.

Hardly his worst game.

[Mantis]

Goddard has destroyed us the last couple of years.

Griff did a very good containing him and at least broke even.

Hardly his worst game.

Why are we using our best attacking mid in a defensive role anyway??

[KT31]

Why are we using our best attacking mid in a defensive role anyway??

Greast point and something I wondered early in the game.

[G-Mo77]

Honestly, I walked away from this game fairly happy with what we have in place. The youth is exciting and if everything goes well we should see a pretty solid foundation in years to come. It would have been nice to get over this scum of a team but I'll be happy to overtake them on their plummet down the ladder down the track.

I was concerned how Dahlhaus would adapt but it was like a duck to water and was very impressive. Pity they started him as a sub. GRRRRR!!!!

Jones I was really impressed with, he was outnumbered, a lot but made a contest and put the ball on the deck several times. I heard an amazing stat on the radio on the way home, in his last 6 games he leads the league in contested marks. Amazingly people were calling for his head last week.

Libba's use of the ball is fantastic in the packs and Howie was also pretty impressive.

What did disappoint me was our continuous hand balling. I know it's a percentage game now days but I'd rather turn it over on the wing than inside the forward 50. So many players were caught holding the ball because of over use it continues to hold us back and it really needs to be stamped out of our game.

Working for your mate is very big in my eyes and it's something we don't do enough. There are not enough guys who push that little bit harder to lay a shepard and it's not really a hard thing to do. You don't have to be the biggest guy on the field to do it.

We still don't have that player who can carry us when it counts. The game was there to be won and sprayed several shots at goal. Griffen's lazy shot was something that really disappointed me.

We have a lot of work to do and it's not going to be an easy road back but I'm confident with what we can work with over the next few years.

[macca]

Dahlhaus tackle no free either.?
Barlow not up to it, nor DJ
Ves needs a go

DJ, misses that hard edge, never hits the contests. Too many times tonight saw him sit outside the contest of play. His ability to read the play is poor as well.

Barlow good pass to Gia in first quater, but that was all I saw good for the game from him. He did look lost at times.

More game time to Dalhaus, and anymore kids we can bring in. Someone please teach Jones to kick, get rid of the shuttling first few runs, and poor drop!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

DJ, misses that hard edge, never hits the contests. Too many times tonight saw him sit outside the contest of play. His ability to read the play is poor as well.

Barlow good pass to Gia in first quater, but that was all I saw good for the game from him. He did look lost at times.

More game time to Dalhaus, and anymore kids we can bring in. Someone please teach Jones to kick, get rid of the shuttling first few runs, and poor drop!

If anything, playing Hudson/DJ/Barlow for full games is stinging us. The kids are doing OK - we really should be throwing them in the deep end, and seeing what they have to offer. Jones and Howard have done well so far, Dahlhaus was good tonight, but he should be playing full games from this point forward. I was disappointed when I saw he had the sub vest on from the beginning.

If/when Tutt and Schofield play, give them the entire game. Use players like Hudson, Stack, DJ, Barlow (if they play) as the sub.

I'm past the point of feeling angry or dejected when we lose. I just want to see us start developing players for next year and beyond. It might mean we cop a few beltings along the way, but these players will be better for it. Richmond is a fine example of this. They were belted around last year, but a lot of them have really improved from that this season.

Just hope we don't try and preserve our brand by playing mature guys who aren't going to improve us. I'd rather lose by an extra 3-6 goals, and get plenty of games into 5-10 of our young kids.

[DragzLS1]

Enjoyed the game took alot of good points from it and we will only learn from our mistakes. Atleast we have some easier games coming up where we can grab a few wins with the young blokes. Looking forward to next week. Dalhouse was very impressive but don't forget he was a sub and had fresh legs, I like him coming on as a sub just gives us something different when the games getting tougher and players are getting tired. Good effort fellas still proud and hopefully we start playing some better football over the next 4 weeks

[Jasper]

We are absolutely woeful. We look disinterested, slow, rushed and lazy. There's literally nothing to like about our performances from a team perspective.


Agree with everything in above post except this. Don't believe the team is disinterested or lazy. I do believe they are disheartened. The Saints are the same I reckon. Two clubs that realised that they missed their chance when they had it.

[Grantysghost]

It is absolutely his kicking action. Look at what happens with his ball drop, it's stilted as hell, absolutely no smoothness to it. The ball looks like if he dropped it straight onto his foot it'd be an accident.
.

Totally agree his ball drop is all wrong and too high. Having said that it can be worked on and many a KPF has improved their kicking dramatically with education eg Treadrea.

I think Jones is going to be brilliant for us. He has intensity, runs to the right spots, time his leads well and has all the physical attributes to play a key position for a long time and be very effective. He made a couple of youthful mistakes last night, but thats part of the education. Unfortunately he doesn't have a lot of senior guidance around him at the moment on field to settle him especially when taking set shots.

Does anyone who watches training regularly see him practicing his kicking/set shots routinely?

[Topdog]

Why are we using our best attacking mid in a defensive role anyway??

Because he was smashed by Jones early and unlike other teams we don't block taggers. And unlike Daisy Griffen doesn't punch Jones in the head.

[LongWait]

I think that there is a lot of up-side for us. We will not impact the finals in any way this year, so let's keep getting games into the younger players and try to catch up for the last three years when we've given limited opportunities to new players.

Rather than pot the players, I find myself looking for the silver lining and I think continual improvement is a realistic expectation for all of the less than 30 game-ers we've played so far this year.

I'd love to see us focus on coaching consistent application of the 1%'s : manning the mark correctly, blocking and sheparding; taking the man on the mark out of a dangerous position; front and square at forward contests; kicking to advantage rather than trying to drill passes and the list goes on.

It would also be great to see signs of a modern game plan emerging. That would give me the greatest hope of all, for I believe the playing group has much, much more development left in them and we can rebound quickly next season.

[chef]

Why are we using our best attacking mid in a defensive role anyway??

Maybe he's the only one able to perform this task.

[chef]

Eade said in his presser that Cooney will need an operation at the end of the season. So I think it would be best to just get it done now so he can have a full pre-season and get back to senior footy next year. What's the point in bringing him back in? He looks underdone when he plays and the team isn't going to play finals.

Why the hell isn't he getting it done now:confused:

2011 is shot Rodney.

[SlimPickens]

Seriously, has it been that long since we've had a KPF that we don't recognise what a developing one looks like?

Jones looks a potential star of the near future, I'd much prefer to see us persist and develop a player like Jones than continue to ply games into guys like Stack, DJ, and Barlow who should be far more developed at their age than they are.

This.... Jones is busting a gut. He may have played 15-20 games in the hardest position on the ground and is performing well.

[LostDoggy]

Why are we using our best attacking mid in a defensive role anyway??

If we had taken our chances including our best attacking midfielder missing an easy shot we might be saying it was a great move.
Nick and Goddard were well held.

[LostDoggy]

Goddard was bog according to the abc. I couldn't say he was held. He was definitely a major contributor

[LostDoggy]

Seriously, has it been that long since we've had a KPF that we don't recognise what a developing one looks like?

Jones looks a potential star of the near future, I'd much prefer to see us persist and develop a player like Jones than continue to ply games into guys like Stack, DJ, and Barlow who should be far more developed at their age than they are.



This.... Jones is busting a gut. He may have played 15-20 games in the hardest position on the ground and is performing well.

When you see a young developing player willing to put his body on the line, crash a pack and mark , actually run and bounce to try to create a goal , its great to see , its just a shame he is a negative learning environment at the moment , now if we could get him to hold the ball properly before he kicks

.

[LostDoggy]

I still have my fears about Jones.
He the potential to be a great player, but i could also see him being a Kosi.
Good contested marker, but his goal kicking and the fact that he doesn't give a lot other than those marks could make him a frustrating player.
I don't know if it's worth it to drop him to the ressies so he can get more of the ball, but i guess it depends on what kind of person he is and how he would react to that - something i guess only the coaches know.

[G-Mo77]

Goddard was bog according the abc. I couldn't say he was held. He was definitely a major contributor

McEvoy was BOG IMO.

[Topdog]

Goddard was bog according to the abc. I couldn't say he was held. He was definitely a major contributor

great first qtr (when Griffen wasn't on him), quiet for the next 3 quarters but kicked the match sealing goal whilst taking 2 or 3 bounces 1 minute after his opponent missed a sitter.

[bornadog]

great first qtr (when Griffen wasn't on him), quiet for the next 3 quarters but kicked the match sealing goal whilst taking 2 or 3 bounces 1 minute after his opponent missed a sitter.

Why the hell didn't Williams turn around and run at Goddard, instead, Williams kept following Reiweoldt who was opening up the goals for Goddard.

[Topdog]

I'm going to say instructions probably bornadog. Also Williams isn't clever enough yet to do what is needed without being told too. It took Lake a long time to learn how to do that.

[always right]

I still have my fears about Jones.
He the potential to be a great player, but i could also see him being a Kosi.
Good contested marker, but his goal kicking and the fact that he doesn't give a lot other than those marks could make him a frustrating player.
I don't know if it's worth it to drop him to the ressies so he can get more of the ball, but i guess it depends on what kind of person he is and how he would react to that - something i guess only the coaches know.

I remember that our greatest key forward ever, battled to kick 40 meters in his early years.

[FrediKanoute]

No worries.. it's just a shit rule change. There has to be a better way to do this. I'd rather no whistle and play continues for a period of time until it's clear there is no advantage and then the whistle blown.

Agree, we must have the only ball sport where you can get penalized for making a play.

[Desipura]

Why the hell didn't Williams turn around and run at Goddard, instead, Williams kept following Reiweoldt who was opening up the goals for Goddard.

Williams was pretty good on Riewoldt, don't know why you would highlight one error?
Sometimes I think you play devils advocate with you advocating how Stack should not get dropped.
Then you tell us our future centre half forward should be dropped as he only has x amount of possessions. Do you want a longer rebuild to our list?
It's painful enough having to go through this, let alone not planning for the future by playing players that will not be with us in the long term.

[AndrewP6]

I'm past the point of feeling angry or dejected when we lose..

This kind of sums up last night for me. I really wasn't that surprised unfortunately - we simply aren't good enough. Too few doing too much, and too many passengers. Senior players just not able to get it done when needed.:( Some appalling umpiring work. Basic skill errors, again and again and again. And a lot of sides will struggle with their FB, FF and best mid out.

The Four 'n' Twenty Angus Beef pie with pepper, rocks though :)

[MrMahatma]

Maybe he's the only one able to perform this task.
Maybe 2011 - the remainder - isn't only about playing kids, but teaching some new lessons. Higgins in defence/defensive roles would be good to see also. He needs to improve that just like Jones needs to improve his kicking.

Everyday is a school day - and we'd may as well use the rest of the year to get improvement from everyone who'll still be relevant in 2012.

[bornadog]

Williams was pretty good on Riewoldt, don't know why you would highlight one error?
Sometimes I think you play devils advocate with you advocating how Stack should not get dropped.
Then you tell us our future centre half forward should be dropped as he only has x amount of possessions. Do you want a longer rebuild to our list?
It's painful enough having to go through this, let alone not planning for the future by playing players that will not be with us in the long term.

Desi, I am not sure what your talking about. I was not having a go at Williams, I thought he played well. I was commenting on Topdogs discussion on how Goddard played. In that particular passage of play, Goddard was running towards goal and Williams was just following his man. When Goddard got to within 40 metres Williams should have just ran towards him hoping he made an error, but instead Williams kept following Reiwoldt

My comments on Stack are not devils advocate. I get pissed off when his name is the first to come up after every game, win or lose. I thought he did some good things last night.

On Jones, of course I said he should be dropped beacuse he had 5 and 4 disposals in the past two games, it was an opinion on a player out of form. Last night he played well, thats great.

What excatly is your point about questioning me?

[DragzLS1]

If Williams went to Godard wasn't nick on his own then in that particular passage of play?

[aker39]

If Williams went to Godard wasn't nick on his own then in that particular passage of play?

Of course he was, but Goddard would have had to try and pass to Nick, and who knows, he may have stuffed it up.

[Desipura]

Desi, I am not sure what your talking about. I was not having a go at Williams, I thought he played well. I was commenting on Topdogs discussion on how Goddard played. In that particular passage of play, Goddard was running towards goal and Williams was just following his man. When Goddard got to within 40 metres Williams should have just ran towards him hoping he made an error, but instead Williams kept following Reiwoldt

My comments on Stack are not devils advocate. I get pissed off when his name is the first to come up after every game, win or lose. I thought he did some good things last night.

On Jones, of course I said he should be dropped beacuse he had 5 and 4 disposals in the past two games, it was an opinion on a player out of form. Last night he played well, thats great.

What excatly is your point about questioning me?

My point being you want to Drop Jones who is our future (regardless how few stats he got) and you defend Stack to the point even when he plays badly you find positives to retain him in the side.
Jones is our future and we need to fast track his development in the seniors, Stack is not our future plans IMHO

[GVGjr]

My point being you want to Drop Jones who is our future (regardless how few stats he got) and you defend Stack to the point even when he plays badly you find positives to retain him in the side.
Jones is our future and we need to fast track his development in the seniors, Stack is not our future plans IMHO

I would be playing Stack as much as we can just to determine if he has a future with us or not.

Jones has a great future ahead of him but I don't buy the argument that he can only be developed by playing in the seniors. Getting a lot of the footy at Williamstown to improve his confidence isn't bad for his development.
I'd stick with him in the seniors but the occasional run at Williamstown can actually compliment his development.

[Desipura]

I would be playing Stack as much as we can just to determine if he has a future with us or not.

Jones has a great future ahead of him but I don't buy the argument that he can only be developed by playing in the seniors. Getting a lot of the footy at Williamstown to improve his confidence isn't bad for his development.
I'd stick with him in the seniors but the occasional run at Williamstown can actually compliment his development.

I have determined that I do not think Stack has a future at AFL, happy to be proven wrong, very much doubt it though.
The reason Jones does not get alot the ball is due in part because he relies too much on his contested marking to get the ball. Against Geelong all his possessions were as a contested mark.

He needs to build his tank so he can give multiple leads so he can take a mark on a lead as well. When he develops this side, watch his stats tally increase.
With this he still has to learn when and where to lead. The odd run at Willi is fine, but he should play the majority of games in the seniors.
A strong focus on building his tank over the preseason will see him become our focal point up front. As we all know his kicking needs to be worked on as well.

[bornadog]

I would be playing Stack as much as we can just to determine if he has a future with us or not.

Jones has a great future ahead of him but I don't buy the argument that he can only be developed by playing in the seniors. Getting a lot of the footy at Williamstown to improve his confidence isn't bad for his development.
I'd stick with him in the seniors but the occasional run at Williamstown can actually compliment his development.

Totally agree and exactly my point, but explained better.



The reason Jones does not get alot the ball is due in part because he relies too much on his contested marking to get the ball. Against Geelong all his possessions were as a contested mark.

All 4 posssessions.


I have determined that I do not think Stack has a future at AFL, happy to be proven wrong, very much doubt it though.
The reason Jones does not get alot the ball is due in part because he relies too much on his contested marking to get the ball. Against Geelong all his possessions were as a contested mark.

He needs to build his tank so he can give multiple leads so he can take a mark on a lead as well. When he develops this side, watch his stats tally increase.
With this he still has to learn when and where to lead. The odd run at Willi is fine, but he should play the majority of games in the seniors.
A strong focus on building his tank over the preseason will see him become our focal point up front. As we all know his kicking needs to be worked on as well.

We all agree Jones will be a talent one day, no arguement. Not sure why you turned a comment about Williams into a discussion on Stack and Jones.

[Stefcep]

Totally agree his ball drop is all wrong and too high. Having said that it can be worked on and many a KPF has improved their kicking dramatically with education eg Treadrea.


Does anyone who watches training regularly see him practicing his kicking/set shots routinely?

So can anyone explain to me how a player can end up playing AFL football after playing the game since he was 5, and STILL NOT KNOW HOW TO KICK A BALL?

Seriously.

15 years of playing the game and not a single coach has pulled him aside and said to him:"You're doing it wrong. This is how you do it. Now go and spend the next 3 months getting it right".

What's worse, an AFL scout comes along and says"You know that Jones, will be a great KPF. Only he can't kick. Yep, lets recruit him."

We talk about his potential as a KPF when he could as someone's laready said Jones could end up as another Kossie.


Worse still, if you look at the skills, its clear that other players lack more than just kicking skills.

IMO, the basic skills of kicking, marking, handballing, shepherding should be perfected by the time you make the 18. These are not the things an AFL coaching staff should be pre-occupied with.

At AFL level, young players need to be learning the thinking parts of the game: the tactics the decision making, the positioning like where to lead, where to be when we are defending, where to be when we are attacking. If you have a look at last night's game, these are the areas that the young players really struggled with: no options going forward, handballing to team mates under pressure (bad decision making but bad positioning of the team receiving team mate as well), 4 tackles in our forward 50 due to forwards not knowing how to defend, getting killed on the counter due to defenders not know where to be to defend.

OTOH Maybe there's more to this football caper than when i played it.

[bornadog]

So can anyone explain to me how a player can end up playing AFL football after playing the game since he was 5, and STILL NOT KNOW HOW TO KICK A BALL?

Seriously.

15 years of playing the game and not a single coach has pulled him aside and said to him:"You're doing it wrong. This is how you do it. Now go and spend the next 3 months getting it right".

What's worse, an AFL scout comes along and says"You know that Jones, will be a great KPF. Only he can't kick. Yep, lets recruit him."

We talk about his potential as a KPF when he could as someone's laready said Jones could end up as another Kossie.


Worse still, if you look at the skills, its clear that other players lack more than just kicking skills.

IMO, the basic skills of kicking, marking, handballing, shepherding should be perfected by the time you make the 18. These are not the things an AFL coaching staff should be pre-occupied with.

At AFL level, young players need to be learning the thinking parts of the game: the tactics the decision making, the positioning like where to lead, where to be when we are defending, where to be when we are attacking. If you have a look at last night's game, these are the areas that the young players really struggled with: no options going forward, handballing to team mates under pressure (bad decision making but bad positioning of the team receiving team mate as well), 4 tackles in our forward 50 due to forwards not knowing how to defend, getting killed on the counter due to defenders not know where to be to defend.

OTOH Maybe there's more to this football caper than when i played it.

All true, but maybe when he gets in front of a crowd and the pressure is on to kick a goal, he gets nervous. Maybe with time he will improve.

[1eyedog]

Why are we using our best attacking mid in a defensive role anyway??

Absolutely. We went in with a very defensive mindset. Griffen on Goddard, Cross on Fisher, Picken on Dal Santo and both Higgins and Murphy back for the entire game. Both Higgins and Murphy were okay, but I thought one of them might go forward when we were 13 points down in the last.

[Mantis]

So can anyone explain to me how a player can end up playing AFL football after playing the game since he was 5, and STILL NOT KNOW HOW TO KICK A BALL?

Seriously.

15 years of playing the game and not a single coach has pulled him aside and said to him:"You're doing it wrong. This is how you do it. Now go and spend the next 3 months getting it right".

What's worse, an AFL scout comes along and says"You know that Jones, will be a great KPF. Only he can't kick. Yep, lets recruit him.

Jones only started playing AFL when he was about 15... Played other sports including soccer up until this point.

Obviously his kicking technique isn't great, but it is somthing the club is working hard on fixing.

[Grantysghost]

So can anyone explain to me how a player can end up playing AFL football after playing the game since he was 5, and STILL NOT KNOW HOW TO KICK A BALL?

.

Its a good question, appears he can into the game later than i thought. Im all for recruiting footballers before athletes, just look at the Cats, all smart, skilled fooballers.

I have faith the coaches can get Jones kicking style up to standard, it may take a while will be worth it though. I think Travis Cloke has improved this year and is one of the premier teams key components.

[w3design]

While on subject of kicking, what has happened to Griff? Not only the awful shank in front of goal, I'm thinking of the last quarter when he ran in from 50 and didn't magke the distance, instead finding a saints player about 15 out? Those beautiful kicks were his trademark, yet this year he has butchered the ball frequently. Is there an injury curtailing the power in his legs, as surely there has not been a technique issue for him?

[Stefcep]

Jones only started playing AFL when he was about 15... Played other sports including soccer up until this point.

Obviously his kicking technique isn't great, but it is somthing the club is working hard on fixing.


Wow! That late? I stand corrected in his case.

But then that raises the AFL-wide issue of recruiting players form other codes-and even basketball and overseas. Never been a fan of it TBH. Their skills always look suspect. I can't believe with all of the juniors playing the game that there are not enough good ones to play at AFL level. IMO they're not looking hard enough.

[G-Mo77]

All 4 posssessions.

You fall back on that stat like it's a harness for your life.

I brought it up in another thread, on the radio they mentioned that Jones leads the league in contested marks over the past 6 weeks.

Yeah, he's been awful. :rolleyes:


While on subject of kicking, what has happened to Griff? Not only the awful shank in front of goal, I'm thinking of the last quarter when he ran in from 50 and didn't magke the distance, instead finding a saints player about 15 out? Those beautiful kicks were his trademark, yet this year he has butchered the ball frequently. Is there an injury curtailing the power in his legs, as surely there has not been a technique issue for him?

I've always found Griffen's kicking to be quite poor at times, especially on the run. He gets you out of your seat with a long run but sits you back down when he sprays it.

[Ghost Dog]

You fall back on that stat like it's a harness for your life.

I brought it up in another thread, on the radio they mentioned that Jones leads the league in contested marks over the past 6 weeks.

Yeah, he's been awful. :rolleyes:



I've always found Griffen's kicking to be quite poor at times, especially on the run. He gets you out of your seat with a long run but sits you back down when he sprays it.

He does give it a bit of a curl doesn't he? I couldn't believe how far it was off. Then again, he does run his guts out. So it goes. Our skills are rubbish at the moment.

[bornadog]

You fall back on that stat like it's a harness for your life.

I brought it up in another thread, on the radio they mentioned that Jones leads the league in contested marks over the past 6 weeks.

Yeah, he's been awful. :rolleyes:.

Yes he was awful in the two games prior to the Saints match. If your satisfied with a 5 disposal and 4 diposal game, you are easy to please.

Harness in my life, WTF :mad:

[G-Mo77]

Yes he was awful in the two games prior to the Saints match. If your satisfied with a 5 disposal and 4 diposal game, you are easy to please.

Harness in my life, WTF :mad:

And you're not happy with someone who is 20 years of age taking a decent amount of contested grabs. Something we lack by the way. You are far to hard to please.

[bornadog]

And you're not happy with someone who is 20 years of age taking a decent amount of contested grabs. Something we lack by the way. You are far to hard to please.

Mate, read my posts, I am a big fan of Jones. Yes I called for him to be dropped before last week as he wasn't getting his hands on the ball. I thought he may be better off in the VFL to gain some touch. Ok, that was my opinion. He played his best game for this year on Friday, fantastic.

BUT, for posters to be satisfied with 4 disposals, 3 contested, I am flabergasted.

BTW, he averages this year 1.6 contested marks per game and took zero last week.

[G-Mo77]

Mate, read my posts, I am a big fan of Jones. Yes I called for him to be dropped before last week as he wasn't getting his hands on the ball. I thought he may be better off in the VFL to gain some touch. Ok, that was my opinion. He played his best game for this year on Friday, fantastic.

BUT, for posters to be satisfied with 4 disposals, 3 contested, I am flabergasted.

BTW, he averages this year 1.6 contested marks per game and took zero last week.

And you've told everyone about ever since. :rolleyes:

Seriously I've lost track of how many times you've brought up his 4 possessions against Geelong. You don't sound like a "Big Fan" at all, you pot him nearly every chance you have gotten recently and castrate anyone who says otherwise.

[bornadog]

And you've told everyone about ever since.

Seriously I've lost track of how many times you've brought up his 4 possessions against Geelong. You don't sound like a "Big Fan" at all, you pot him nearly every chance you have gotten recently and castrate anyone who says otherwise.

Show me ONE post where I pot Jones.

[G-Mo77]

Show me ONE post where I pot Jones.

The 4 lousy possessions every time you bring that up your potting him, it's done in such a derogatory way and your happy to fire that line off at anyone who defends him.

The 4 lousy possession you talk about were in a complete blowout, the ball rarely ventured down there and were against the best team in the competition. You also throw away the stat of 3 contested marks so easily like it means absolutely nothing.

You're such a big fan but willing to just throw the boots into a 20 year old when ever you see possible especially if someone's view doesn't run along side yours. :rolleyes:

[Desipura]

Mate, read my posts, I am a big fan of Jones. Yes I called for him to be dropped before last week as he wasn't getting his hands on the ball. I thought he may be better off in the VFL to gain some touch. Ok, that was my opinion. He played his best game for this year on Friday, fantastic.

BUT, for posters to be satisfied with 4 disposals, 3 contested, I am flabergasted.

BTW, he averages this year 1.6 contested marks per game and took zero last week.

You forgot to mention most contested marks over the last 6 weeks, use stats any way you wish.
How about Stacks stats? How many fumbles?

[bornadog]

The 4 lousy possessions every time you bring that up your potting him, it's done in such a derogatory way and your happy to fire that line off at anyone who defends him.

The 4 lousy possession you talk about were in a complete blowout, the ball rarely ventured down there and were against the best team in the competition. You also throw away the stat of 3 contested marks so easily like it means absolutely nothing.

You're such a big fan but willing to just throw the boots into a 20 year old when ever you see possible especially if someone's view doesn't run along side yours. :rolleyes:


You forgot to mention most contested marks over the last 6 weeks, use stats any way you wish.
How about Stacks stats? How many fumbles?

If I stick up for a player I am accused of supporting the MC, if I call for a player to be dropped I am accused of bagging him.

As I said G-Mo77, show me ONE POST, I bag Jones. You know what you can't.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: I know you love rolling your eyes, you do it in every post to me.

Desi, not sure why you are bringing up Stack. I guess I have to spell it out again. Everytime we have lost (except last week), the same old players are potted by posters, ie Stack and Gia. Go back and see all the threads on the MC changes. Yet he wasn't the worst player in each week. Thats all I am saying about Stack, yet you keep bringing it up. I know you don't like him fine.

[G-Mo77]

As I said G-Mo77, show me ONE POST, I bag Jones. You know what you can't.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: I know you love rolling your eyes, you do it in every post to me.

I've answered that. Go back and read it properly.

Resists urge to click rollseyes emoticon.......



:D

[bornadog]

I've answered that. Go back and read it properly.

Resists urge to click rollseyes emoticon.......



:D

I know your happy with 4 disposals so we will leave it at that:D