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LostDoggy
09-06-2011, 12:40 PM
We have been mauled in the clearance stats this year, and have committed the highest number of turnovers when we HAVE won the ball out of the middle. I think everything flows from this – control the middle and you control the pace and rhythm of a game, which is half the battle towards being able to impose yourself on the opponent – don’t have the ball and you’re chasing shadows. Now that's not why we are losing games by 123 points, but that's not a tactical issue and I won't comment on the internal psychological workings at the club.

I've (clearly) had too much time on my hands during this conference, jet-lagged, sitting in my hotel room at night watching downloads of some of our games this year, and just as an outside observer I’ve noticed a few things and thought I would write up some of my tactical suggestions. None of this is rocket science, and are things I’m sure our MC are aware of, they are just VERY broad suggestions that will of course require more nuance in real game situations. I’ve just kept them simplistic for discussion, apologies if some of this is pretty obvious stuff:

Offensively:

1. Too much overlap with the inside/outside stuff. I know we want our players to be multi-dimensional, but at this point, I think we have to accept their limitations and plan accordingly. I think mjp mentioned this somewhere else, but we need to be clear with Boyd, Cross, Addison, Picken and Minson that they are primarily inside players, and their job is to get the ball to better ball users playing ‘outside’ the contest (where outside is addressed in the next point). Inside players have two and only two jobs – win the ball and get it backwards until it gets in the hands of either a ‘tweener’ (inside-outside player) or a half-back elite ball user, or kill the contest, ie. if we don’t look like winning the ball, contract space, create congestion and kill the ball. Nothing else – they do NOT get to try the Hollywood pass, or try to take on players, or be on the end of a chain of handballs. Basically, they are to play risk-free and not allowed to lose the ball. (They should all just get a tape of Brad Sewell and watch it on repeat.)

2. Designated guys playing outside the contest need to be elite ball users off our half-back line (Murph, Gilbee/Howard, Hargrave) spread out behind the contest, and designated ‘wing’ players (Hill, DJ, Moles, Sherman – guys with massive tanks, some speed and reasonable disposal) sitting laterally across from the contest – I know that there isn’t a ‘wing’ position anymore, but width is still a very important attacking principle, and we haven’t been using it anywhere near enough this year, or intelligently enough, which brings me to my next point:

3. Point of entry into the forward 50 – I’ve noticed that the our forward 50 entries have usually come from just past the centre-square, right in the middle of the park. This is a very difficult kick as you are usually weaving through traffic and kicking in congestion – last week Murph pulled off ONE stab pass, and Boydy turned the ball over every time he tried it; that’s far too low a percentage to be sustainable. I think we are pulling the trigger one disposal too early – from the middle of the corridor, everyone is streaming back and blocking space forward, so the better option is probably a sideways one to a good ball user (one of our aforementioned ‘wing’ players) stationed on the outside of the square (left or right – more on this later), who then has a bit more time to spot up a pass. The natural angle of entry from outside the corridor is also better as there is a higher margin of error – the ball will drift across the goals and give more of an opportunity to a forward playing in front to adjust accordingly. When you’re entering the 50 straight on, you need to weight it perfectly or else risk the ball dropping short (which was happening a lot to Lakey when he played forward) or going over their heads making it easier to spoil (as happens to Hall a lot).

4. The primary job of our ‘tweeners’ (outside-inside players) of which our only legitimate ones are Coons, Griff and Ward (and maybe Libba and Wallis) should not be to burst away and kick blind and long inside 50, but to get out of congestion and hit up (again) an outside player playing square of the contest, just short kicks to keep possession and circulate the ball. This will improve their kicking efficiency no end and create continuity and rhythm in their play, letting them control the pace of the game rather than have stop-start, low-percentage kicks and turnovers. They can then try the Hollywood pass once they get into the game and gain more confidence in their disposal.

5. Redefining ‘corridor’ and ‘wing’ terminology – commentators tend to use these terms very crudely – and while (I think) we are attacking too centrally this year, we have attacked from far too wide in the past. I think a more segmented view of the attacking zones maybe more useful (I know that zonal thinking has started to permeate from a defensive standpoint, but not yet from an offensive one). If we split the ‘corridor’ vertically into three broad zones, and the respective ‘wings’ into another three each, with a centre-bounce contest in the corridor we need to get the ball laterally across at least two zones (preferably with a kick, or two handballs, one diagonally backwards and another one across) before attempting the entry, meaning that our designated outside players need to hold position across from the contest to be available for the lateral pass. (This is Gia’s natural zone and where he does his best work, but I don’t know how much of it is by design and how much of it is just his brilliant space-finding instincts) – it’s essentially the space BETWEEN the corridor and the wing that we will be looking to exploit here. Changing the expected angle of attack immediately (just one or two disposals) before actual entry is subtle but means that the defensive zone set up is just that little bit out of alignment – it’s essentially Warney subtly changing up how wide he bowls from between deliveries.

Defensively:

1. The players in the various ‘components’ (backs, mids, forwards) of the team are playing individually too close to each other, but collectively too far away from the other components, if this makes any sense – ie. the ‘backs’ are too close to each other, but too far away from the ‘midfield’. We need to get a better sense of spacing between players in general play, but the groups need to be a lot more interchangeable – in other words, we need to be more ‘compact’ without AND with the ball – teams are finding space and loose men everywhere on the turnover because our midfield spreads forward while our half back line is still standing in our own half.

2. ‘Pressing’ – our players are trying to create forward pressure by running blindly at the player with the ball and smashing into them after they dispose of it, so we look half a second late to every contest. Pressing isn’t done by manic running and tackling – it’s done by perceived collective pressure. The key isn’t actually tackling, but herding – you want to be able to herd players into dead ends or into your other players, or force them to kick in certain pre-determined directions and create turnovers – for example, if your mids are stronger than theirs, you want to herd them into kicking down the corridor and trusting your mids to win the ball back, vice versa if your wings are stronger. The individual key to herding (and Geelong are doing this well this year) is body shape – the angle which you bend your run towards the ball carrier, how you face your opponent (which direction you are ‘showing’ them), and which side of their run you want to ‘block off’. The collective (team) key to herding is closeness to the ball – this is why I am banging on about being compact. If your entire team is moving as a tight unit and the spacing between players is no more than 10-15 metres from each other, when one of your players loses the ball you will have three/four players within 10/15 metres of the ball, making it much easier to create collective pressure (which is usually enough to force a bad or hurried disposal). However, if you are all 20-40 metres apart, it will be pretty easy to pick holes between you or to just run straight through, which is happening a lot this year. We may not always have to be this compact, but when opposition teams are getting a run on we need to just be able to shut a game down and take all the momentum out of it for 5-10 minutes.

always right
09-06-2011, 03:30 PM
You make a good point:)

I'll need 24 hours to digest this properly. You really have had time on your hands.

LostDoggy
09-06-2011, 04:56 PM
First up thanks for taking the time and effort to put these ideas out there, it is great to read such a tactical and constructive analysis of the team.

In terms of our midfield's perfromance I think that a key factor in this has been the loss of an in-form Hudson in this part of the ground. Hudson is our best (possibly only) defensive inside Ruckman, the only one who looks to keep the ball close by defednig the tap and clear it via handball or lock it up as you describe. Sedat in another thread mentioned a stat that had us bottom two for clearances in 07 but near the top over the last 3 seasons, I thinkn we are towards the bottom again so far this year. It is difficult not to interpret Hudson as one of the major factors in this.

Will and Roughead by contrast use a tap ruck style that looks to put the ball in space, this in theory enables more fluid offense but is much higher risk and with the lack of pace/form/fitness of other midfileders this year we have been exposed going the other way. I do not think that either Minson or Roughead can replicate Hudson's work as a defensive ruck and clearance player. Will is strong but lacks agility, and skill below his kness (some would say he just lacks skill but I like the guy) and Roughead is not yet strong enough to impose himself over the whole game and consistently fight for 1st possesion. Both can adjust to try and defend the tap but neither are Hudson's equal once the ball hits the ground.

In lieu of Hudson I would suggest you are right and that Cross, Boyd and Minson with support from Roughead, Libba, DFA and Wallis need to focus on keeping the ball tight, winning first possesion and spreading the ball wide thorugh linking players or forcing a second stoppage. Whether they can do this or the MC agree with the tactic is probably the big question.

Ghost Dog
10-06-2011, 10:15 AM
I think that's a record for 'number of scrolls required to read post'.
I'll read that a few times. Interesting Lantern and thanks

LostDoggy
10-06-2011, 10:46 AM
I am not a huge "zone" fan but what always amazes me is when there's a pack formation we don't seem to have anyone zoning off to get the outside ball. Time & time again I see other teams having the outside players getting the ball and then having others running on for them. We don't seem to have any fringe players, they all seem to be at the bottom of the pack so they're 10 - 15 metres off the pace..
The other thing i can't understand is why we don't leave 1, yes just 1, player inside 50. How many times do we finally get the ball and the run but only have to stop the penetration because the whole team is in the back half of the field. :confused:

LostDoggy
10-06-2011, 12:18 PM
@Ghost Dog -- haha first of all apologies for the length of the OP. I figured -- what the hell, if no one reads it no one reads it.

I thought that I would scrawl up some diagrams to illustrate one of the points above (about the angle of entry). Again, apologies if it's pretty obvious to most...

http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/1721/58048062.jpg

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4380/66189232.jpg

@Shnookie -- agreed. Going sideways/outside instead of pulling the trigger too early also allows at least some support to get up to our forwardline. Our first option out of congestion needs to be a handball backwards (diagonally, to cut out the smother option and free up the outside player) to one of the halfbacks or a kick sideways to the 'inside wing' position. We're just bombing it forward and handing the ball straight back to the other team, or having runners come straight up past the ball winner so our forward drive is very narrow and our angle of entry into the forward 50 is very tight.

More scrawls to illustrate this point:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/786/67351708.jpg

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8534/48559998.jpg

I guess my entire approach is predicated on not just handing the initiative back to the opposition when we get the ball -- I want us to be able to hang on to it in productive positions and still be threatening (so not just possession for its own sake) but not keep going for the low-percentage, turnover prone option.

LostDoggy
10-06-2011, 12:30 PM
You make a good point:)

I'll need 24 hours to digest this properly. You really have had time on your hands.

Haha -- UN delegates are the most boring people on the planet to listen to, so I have had time to think and scrawl during the day, and my internal clock is too messed up to sleep before midnight so plenty of time to sit and just watch stuff on the laptop.

LostDoggy
10-06-2011, 12:37 PM
In terms of our midfield's perfromance I think that a key factor in this has been the loss of an in-form Hudson in this part of the ground...

Will and Roughead by contrast use a tap ruck style that looks to put the ball in space, this in theory enables more fluid offense but is much higher risk and with the lack of pace/form/fitness of other midfileders this year we have been exposed going the other way...

In lieu of Hudson I would suggest you are right and that Cross, Boyd and Minson with support from Roughead, Libba, DFA and Wallis need to focus on keeping the ball tight, winning first possesion and spreading the ball wide thorugh linking players or forcing a second stoppage. Whether they can do this or the MC agree with the tactic is probably the big question.

Heya -- you're welcome first of all.

Couldn't have put it better myself; it's been mentioned around this parts already that Huddo's decline is really exposing us defensively out of the clearance. I can't believe that Will can't replicate Huddo's impact though -- he's massive, has great rucking instincts, and is intelligent enough to adapt if necessary: he just has to reign in his natural desire to get the ball into space and bang it forward at every opportunity, and think a bit more about containment. It will be a challenge, but a well-rounded player needs to be able to up and down the risk quotient as required, and at this point, he just needs to dial it down a touch and bring the ball down inside for the contest.. I guess what we miss most is Huddo's old-head and nous more than anything.

stefoid
10-06-2011, 12:39 PM
Ill go through this properly when I have time - love this kind of stuff.

On 'the press' I would have thought the aim would not be herding - scott west used to 'herd', that is, sit off the player and wave your arms. Is that what you mean by herding?

I think the aim is to run directly at the player and tackle whether they dispose of it or not and to do it as quickly as possible so as to cut down the reaction time of the player with the ball. You want the opposition to know

(a) they have very little time to dispose of the ball and
(b) there is a hard tackle coming

Expecting both of these is perceived pressure -- they will be looking to get rid of the pill ASAP and bracing for impact, whether someone is right on their hammer or not.

Murphy'sLore
10-06-2011, 12:41 PM
Thanks for this Lantern. Talk of tactics usually makes my head spin, but I think I almost understood most of what you're on about!

LostDoggy
10-06-2011, 12:53 PM
Ill go through this properly when I have time - love this kind of stuff.

On 'the press' I would have thought the aim would not be herding - scott west used to 'herd', that is, sit off the player and wave your arms. Is that what you mean by herding?

I think the aim is to run directly at the player and tackle whether they dispose of it or not and to do it as quickly as possible so as to cut down the reaction time of the player with the ball. You want the opposition to know

(a) they have very little time to dispose of the ball and
(b) there is a hard tackle coming

Expecting both of these is perceived pressure -- they will be looking to get rid of the pill ASAP and bracing for impact, whether someone is right on their hammer or not.

Heya stefoid -- I don't know if 'herding' is the right word here (I was going to use 'shepherding' but that has a different connotation in footy); you're trying to actively 'force' the direction of the opposition player by varying the angle of your run and body shape. It's NOT a static, Scott West wave your hands around thing, it's a dynamic, intentional thing, forcing a player towards your other teammates to be able to lay a tackle, or forcing them towards the touchline etc.

The problem with throwing yourself directly at a player one on one is that a good player (and most AFL players are) will just sidestep, roll off your tackle, or use your momentum against yourself and go straight past you. If you watch Collingwood's press, they are not throwing themselves into tackles, but pushing them wider and wider into congested areas, THEN the second or third player coming is is doing the tackling when the (opposition) player's momentum has stalled. Geelong's doesn't even involve tackling, they just force the ball carrier(s) wide and Bartel et al. sit on the hurried disposal and contest the mark/loose ball.

Just charging willy-nilly one-on-one (as we do) just makes us look silly and opens up space behind the would-be tackler.

Ghost Dog
10-06-2011, 01:18 PM
@Ghost Dog -- haha first of all apologies for the length of the OP. I figured -- what the hell, if no one reads it no one reads it.



.

No no Lantern! was not a dig. That's really interesting stuff.

Love your work L!:D

I do SO love a good information graphic....

Cyberdoggie
10-06-2011, 01:25 PM
I think our major source of pain is our midfields lack of ability to pressure, tackle, and shepherd both offensively and defensively.

When we have the ball from a contest we play hot potato because of the opposition pressure or perceived pressure, until the ball finds itself in the hands of one of only a few of our players that are trying to take the opposition on (Murhpy, Griffen). And of course the opposition know this and just converge on these players like flies to a carcass.

We never create space, block or shepherd when we pass the ball onto a team mate nearby, therfore allowing the defender a straight run at us.

i think there is 2 streams of thought. Coaches who don't players to be focussing on blocking/shepherding because they want them to be available for another handball receive option (Eade), and those that think you need to give it to your creative players and then clear space for them (not Eade).

I understand the merits for both but i think that we should try and keep it simple for now and focus in the first theory. The less you handle the ball the less mistake you should have and hopefully if our players have more time to think and dispose of the ball everything else will just fall into place (to a certain extent).

DOG GOD
10-06-2011, 06:54 PM
Wow what a fine effort that was Lantern. A great read. I will delve into it more over the weekend b4 i even attempt to comment :)

Great stuff.

LostDoggy
10-06-2011, 08:04 PM
Great stuff Lantern. Very informative. What do you make of Hawthorn, then? As is well documented, they kick more than handball to get through the press.