Round #12 - Slaps and Sledges

[GVGjr]

For those who aren't familiar with the Slaps and Sledges thread:

A slap on the back for a job well done by 2 players. (not to be confused with the Woof Player Awards (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=9023))
This can be a passage of player or even a spirited effort.

A sledge to two players that let down the team. Try and make this constructive critique and not just overly critical.

Provide us with your thoughts on this evenings game against the Saints.

[Rance Fan]

Slap

Dalhaus great effort
Higgins - well at least you showed something this week

Sledge
Umps/rules?
Skills - non exsistent aints included

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Slap- Guys that responded with effort befitting our expectations - Boyd, Williams & Higgins

Sledge - our overuse of handball

[KT31]

Slap - Dalhaus, pitty he wasn't in the starting side.
Slap - Boyd, leading from the front.

Sledge - No players presenting up forward and all running back.
Sledge - Lack of awareness around the football and our communication is poor.
Sledge - Two soda's right in front and game on.

[Topdog]

Slap: Rocket, throwing higgins behind the ball. Lots of turnovers but it looks like a move that could work well.
Slap: Barlow, tried hard and I thought was more than decent.
Slap: Williams, did a great job on Nick.

Sledge: Advantage rule.
Sledge: Dj - wow we gave this guy a 3 year contact.
Sledge: kick ins. A real problem for us.
Sledge: Jones - work on your goal kicking and marking at willi.

[Ghost Dog]

Slap - The younger brigade and general effort.
Slap - Howard. Good work - composed and c areful kicker
Slap - Barlow - showed a bit
Slap- Doll-house. Much needed pep
Slap - Liam Picken and Morris - Great effort
Slap - Rocket - he gave us a fighting chance and the players had to do the rest. Not really his fault tonight.

Sledge - whoever thought up the new version of the advantage rule. Not the umps fault, they just call it how it is. Cross took three or four steps, too bad, more as a reflex - that's the rule as it stands.

One telling shot showed Cooney, Lake, Hargrave, Barry all sitting together. That's a lot of $$ warming plastic seats, sipping cokes while our season goes begging. So it goes. Someone has to miss out and we're not top four - that's sport

[KT31]

Slap - The younger brigade and general effot.
Slap - Howard. Good work - composed and c areful kicker
Slap - Rocket - he gave us a fighting chance and the players had to do the rest. Not really his fault tonight.

Sledge - whoever thought up the new version of the advantage rule. Not the umps fault, they just call it how it is. Cross took three or four steps, too bad - that's the rule as it stands.

Sledge for Cross then, for not stopping play when we have a kick directly in front twenty metres out.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Slap - Rocket - he gave us a fighting chance and the players had to do the rest. Not really his fault tonight.

Yep good call. I thought he has actually coached very well over the past few weeks, and doesn't seem to be coaching as if he's in the firing line. Is still seeming like he is making decisions based on what is best long term for the football team. Kudo's to him for this.

[GVGjr]

Slap
- Youngsters like Jones, Howard and Dahlhaus showing a bit
- Rocket getting some good match-ups

Sledge
- Murphy costing us an early goal
- Cross and Griffen missing very gettable goals in the last quarter and then to see Goddard get one from the other end hurt us.

Question
- Did we go in too tall with Mulligan, Barlow and two ruckman?

[Scorlibo]

Slap - Dahlhaus really gave some spark and looked like the only player who could find space forward of the ball.
Slap - Boyd, a very good captain's game

Sledge - Over-handballing nonsense (particular reference to the Ward and Griffen effort right on defensive fifty which had me considering leaving the ground).
Sledge - Umpiring. Sorry but I can confidently say this game would have gone right down to the wire if the umpires had done their job correctly. The inconsistency of calls with the advantage rule, the incorrect disposal rule and the chopping of the arms rule was nothing short of disgraceful.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Question
- Did we go in too tall with Mulligan, Barlow and two ruckman?

Good question. In hindsight, it would appear so. we certainly didn't get burned defensive match up wise when Mulligan was subbed out for Dahlhaus. And with the run he added once he came on, it would've been interesting how this would've panned out had he been in for four quarters.

[bornadog]

.

Question
- Did we go in too tall with Mulligan, Barlow and two ruckman?

Yes we did, Schofield should have come in for Mulligan

[Topdog]

Sledge - whoever thought up the new version of the advantage rule. Not the umps fault, they just call it how it is. Cross took three or four steps, too bad, more as a reflex - that's the rule as it stands.t

Disagree. Momentum carried him forward. Shit rule but also a poor interpretation.

Then 2 min later Saints got a free, Saints player picks up ball turns it over by foot and apparently there was no advantage.

[bornadog]

Slap: Boyd, gave his all

Slap Higgins first half - 21 possessions and very creative.

Sledge Higgins second half 6 possessions and went missing.

Sledge - The team, you can't win a game with 2 goals in a half of football.

[Scorlibo]

Slap
- Youngsters like Jones, Howard and Dahlhaus showing a bit
- Rocket getting some good match-ups

Sledge
- Murphy costing us an early goal
- Cross and Griffen missing very gettable goals in the last quarter and then to see Goddard get one from the other end hurt us.

Question
- Did we go in too tall with Mulligan, Barlow and two ruckman?

Re: sledges, spot on, those three instances are the equivalent of 3 goals that we lost through highly regarded senior players. Murphy's especially was a deplorable error, and he seemed generally out of sorts today.

Re: too tall, I think we probably did alright. Perhaps Minson really didn't get as involved as he could have done, but I think that's more a personnel issue than a height issue. Barlow plays more like a small anyway.

[GVGjr]

Yes we did, Schofield should have come in for Mulligan

I wonder if having too many youngsters that need time on the bench was behind the decision?
Anyway, is it worthy of a sledge?

[choconmientay]

Slap: Dahlhaus, he added some speed and was quite composure with his kicking.

Sledge: Griffen, Not able to break the tag the whole game and missed the goal from 30m out in the last quarter. (This could have given us the edge to run out the game)

[bornadog]

I wonder if having too many youngsters that need time on the bench was behind the decision?
Anyway, is it worthy of a sledge?

Mulligan is also a second gamer. Probably a sledge to the MC.

BTW, heard on the way home that his hammy was just a slight twinge and he should be ok.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I wonder if having too many youngsters that need time on the bench was behind the decision?
Anyway, is it worthy of a sledge?

I don't think it was sledgeworthy. At the moment Morris is the only key defender who has shown Eade the consistent level required to do a job in defense. I'm sure Rocket was trying to keep a contingency in place for positional changes should either Riewoldt get a hole of Williams and/or Gamble getting on top and possibly the chance Gilbert might move forward to create a mismatch.

Eade was right given our recent form not to gamble on Williams and Wood doing reasonable jobs, and Gilbert turning in a woeful performance. I am sure that had our form been on par with last season the decision would've been to take the risk to go smaller.

[Greystache]

Slaps

Dahlhaus- looks to have what we desperately lack.
Boyd- poor start but turned it around.
Williams- did a pretty good defensive job.
Jones- the only player we've got who'll present up forward, perhaps he needs to be added to the leadership group so they'll kick it to him.

Sledge

Mental weakness- Usual inability to kick an easy goal when it counts, it typifies this team over the past 3-4 years.
Run and carry through the corridor- handball after handball through the corridor officially died in the 2010 Collingwood vs Geelong preliminary final, obviously we didn't get the memo.
Picken- just cannot stick a tackle.
Murphy- no awareness at all tonight.

[Greystache]

Mulligan is also a second gamer. Probably a sledge to the MC.

BTW, heard on the way home that his hammy was just a slight twinge and he should be ok.

He had ice on his calf at 3/4 I thought.

[Mofra]

Slap:
Dalhaus, Howard & Jones - kids making good
Boyd's game - left nothing in the tank

Sledge:
Kicking for goal was disgraceful
MC - we can't play Hudson & Minson in the same side this year
Dumb football especially our F50 entries - Djerkurra is not a 6'5" KPP. Don't kick it to him when he is outnumbered by bigger opponents.

[w3design]

Slap: run, spark, enthusiasm from some of the young guys, especially liked Dalhaus

Slap: though he faded, Higgins gave us a lot more tonight.

Slap: very good, confident game from Williams. I've been a critic, but he played really well.

Sledge: umpires. Poor and inconsistent all night. No feel for the game. Shockers.

Sledge: kicking for goal by cross and griffen. And somehow you knew it would happen...the inability to nail the crunch goal has been a characteristic of ours for so long.

Sledge: Cross dropping 2 marks when these are hallmarks of his game.

[LostDoggy]

SLAP : Commostrophes , at least they hunt in packs, support their team mates and can handle themselves in a street fight

Rubbish : Machine gun hand passes which accumulate possessions and create an enormous whirlpool of nothing

Rubbish : Season 2011 so far , if someone said lets sit down have a few beers and replay all the games , well I,d rather have Marko the left handed Bulgarian Florist sing a song of lament as a Peruvian slave girl with Tourette's and a cleft palate administers a Cider Vinegar Enema


.

[The Pie Man]

I find it astonishing that I hear Rocket concede we've got the handball/kick ratio wrong on Triple M pre game, and Monty fires the same message during the game, yet they stick to regular programming.

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for a coaching group to watch a group of men continually ignore instruction. What do you do? Massive sledge for the groups inability to take even a bit of this on-board

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

SLAP : Commostrophes , at least they hunt in packs, support their team mates and can handle themselves in a street fight

Rubbish : Machine gun hand passes which accumulate possessions and create an enormous whirlpool of nothing

Rubbish : Season 2011 so far , if someone said lets sit down have a few beers and replay all the games , well I,d rather have Marko the left handed Bulgarian Florist sing a song of lament as a Peruvian slave girl with Tourette's and a cleft palate administers a Cider Vinegar Enema


.

:D
Thank-you West Dog for managing to break the fog of despair that had descended upon me after that performance tonight. At least I'll go to bed with a smile on my face after reading that.

[always right]

Slaps:

- Boyd...led from the front. The right bloke was made captain.
- Williams...that's the effort I expect to see every week
- Picken...typical committed effort on Dal Santo

Sledges:

- Hudson...mind is willing but body isn't. End of the road
- Getting run down from behind. Do our blokes have no awareness, is there no talk,
should they be sheperding? Frustrating.

[Greystache]

SLAP : Commostrophes , at least they hunt in packs, support their team mates and can handle themselves in a street fight

I might make this my new signature, getting in before Rocco :D

[KT31]

Slaps:

- Boyd...led from the front. The right bloke was made captain.
- Williams...that's the effort I expect to see every week
- Picken...typical committed effort on Dal Santo

Sledges:

- Hudson...mind is willing but body isn't. End of the road
- Getting run down from behind. Do our blokes have no awareness, is there no talk,
should they be sheperding? Frustrating.

Not always right, but on the ball this time.:D

[The Underdog]

Question
- Did we go in too tall with Mulligan, Barlow and two ruckman?

I thought 3 minutes in that playing Hudson was a mistake. Mulligan had a tough match-up on Gamble (from a size vs agility aspect but acquitted himself reasonably well). Huddo is great in the middle but his lack of agility around the ground is hurting us when combined with Will's.


Slap:
- James Mulligan's burst through the middle and kick to Gia in the 2nd. Not something I ever expected to see from him
-Tom Williams game on Riewoldt (with a chop out from Morris). Looked a thousand times better than his last 3 weeks. some excellent use of the body.

Sledges:
-Ryan Griffen's kicking in general and his decision making. Doesn't seem to see the option and bombs it to nothing a lot.
-Nathan Djerkurra's missed goal in the 3rd and his decision to pass off to Jones under pressure a few minutes later helped lose us some real momentum.

[giaco]

Sledge to Tom Williams for his Josh Hill like effort on the mark when Reiwoldt kicked a goal from outside 50 in the 2nd quarter. From where I was sitting it looked like Reiwoldt had got too close to the mark but Williams didn't even put a hand in the air. The ball only just carried over the line. Just saw it on the replay again which confirms what I saw.

Slaps to Boyd and Higgins. Lucky some of the posters on here aren't on the match commitee or neither would have been playing.

[1eyedog]

Slaps

As others have mentione Dahlhaus gave us a bit when he came on.

Williams did a manful job on Riewoldt

Stack, while he coughed the ball up I thought he presented, at least tackled and seemed to want the ball more tonight

Boyd hit back at his critics very well


Sledges

I have long been a fan of Daniel Cross but I fail to see what he is actually offering the side. His decision making process has now gone backwards to match his lack of leg speed.

DJ looks way out of his depth, I think we gave up too much and can't see a way forward for him

Ben Hudson for feeding St. Kilda's onballers for most of the night. In addition he is struggling to compete in the air at all.

[LostDoggy]

Slaps
Effort and intensity from a lot of guys for most of the game.
Blue cheese yum.

Sledge
Poor disposal Everywhere
That advantage ruling. My god did I get mad.

[SlimPickens]

Slap- the young kids who are willing to kick to the jumper, thought Jones presented really well tonight and was under utilized.

Sledge- critical misses by hand, foot and at goal.
Lack a awareness, so many holding the ball decisions against us

[Mantis]

Slap- the young kids who are willing to kick to the jumper, thought Jones presented really well tonight and was under utilized

Which 'older' players aren't kicking to the jumper?

[G-Mo77]

Slap - Boyd, had a really tough week and had an amazing game today.

Slap - Picken, shutting down and winning his own ball. I love this guy!

Slap - Young brigade looks pretty exciting. Let's hope they can hold it together.

Slap - Ben McEvoy. OK he's not ours but he's an impressive player.


Sledge - Myself for not looking at the fixture. Rocked up to the game, sat down in my usual seat, looked around and saw Red, White and Black everywhere. I'm such an idiot! Surprised they let me through. :D

Sledge - Those 2 decisions by the umpire in the third quarter. My throat is still sore. I'd yell at them again if I got the chance.

Sledge - Over use of the ball.

Sledge - MC. My first gripe was starting Dahlhaus as a sub. Stupid! I wonder how much game time he would have got had it not been for the injury. My second is Mulligan coming in. Far to top heavy. Schofield or Wallis would have been a much better choice.

[SlimPickens]

Which 'older' players aren't kicking to the jumper?

Thought there were a number of opportunities for Higgins, Gia, Cross, Boyd and Griffen to hit up Jones. It's something i have noticed and mentioned over the last few weeks and is even more evident with Bazza in the side.

[Dogmatic]

Slap - Williams, had a really solid game tonight
Slap - Dahlhaus provided great spark....he's an exciting prospect
Slap - Young players in general, they are the way forward.

Sledge: Boyd, if i'm not mistaken he was at 51% efficiency.
Sledge: Dj, i was happy to see him given an opportunity but i wasn't impressed with what i saw
Sledge: Hudson, 1 year too long

[Remi Moses]

Slap- Dahlhaus (should have been from the start)
Slap- Boyd ( lead from the front, good choice as capt.)
Slap- Williams ( contained Capt Diver well, noticed Riewoldt throwing his arms around at umpiring decisions like a petulant schoolgirl) :p

Sledge- Overuse of handball it looks like the players are scared to make a mistake.
Sledge - Djkuerra ( not up to it for mine)
Sledge ( This Pains me greatly) Crossy just reckon he might get tipped out and the end of the season as we have to many players of the same Ilk.

I agree Higgins and Giansiricusa were very good in the Ist half we need 4 Quarter efforts from these two. It was left to too few tonight.

Sledge - the advantage rule has to go!
Sledge - the toe rag Milne for carrying on like he just scored the winning goal in a world cup final! What a pathetic little wind up merchant he is and the fist pumps inciting the crowd. It's no wonder he cops plenty!:rolleyes:

[ReLoad]

well I,d rather have Marko the left handed Bulgarian Florist sing a song of lament as a Peruvian slave girl with Tourette's and a cleft palate administers a Cider Vinegar Enema


Had that last week, wasnt nearly as bad as it sounds.

[Jasper]

Slap Boyd's endeavour and willingness to get the hard ball and gut run was impressive
Slap Jones presenting and solid aerial contesting
Higgins First half - solid
Dollhouse - Looks the goods is exactly what we need with speed and attack on the footy. If fit enough, should be given an extended run



Sledge Boyd when the game was hot in the first few minutes, turned it over - 3 of 4 early possies went straight to Saints - I think. Further, the teams decision making and skill execution is poor. Boyd led the way here, for all of his plaudits his disposal efficiency was 51%
Sledge - Hudson - continually outmarked by smaller players (didn't even get the ball to ground) really poor for a big man
Sledge - Jones and Djerkurra really needed to kick better. What are coaches doing....?
Sledge - Higgins went missing
Sledge - Barlow disposal and decision making shocking - not impressed at all

[chef]

Slap: Rocket, throwing higgins behind the ball. Lots of turnovers but it looks like a move that could work well.
Slap: Barlow, tried hard and I thought was more than decent.
Slap: Williams, did a great job on Nick.

Sledge: Advantage rule.
Sledge: Dj - wow we gave this guy a 3 year contact.
Sledge: kick ins. A real problem for us.
Sledge: Jones - work on your goal kicking and marking at willi.

And replace him with an out of form Grant or over cooked Hall, no thanks. I was very impressed with his game last night and we need to keep getting games into him.

[aker39]

Sledge - so called supporters.

Where were you?

[LostDoggy]

Sledge - so called supporters.

Where were you?

It was away game I suppose?

[Flamethrower]

Sledge - so called supporters.

Where were you?

The supporters are obviously being inspired by the majority of Bulldog players who play without heart, don't seem to care, and only show up to collect their game cheque.

If the players are going to sleepwalk and lollygag their way through the rest of the season, why should the supporters waste their time showing up? :mad:

[GVGjr]

The supporters are obviously being inspired by the majority of Bulldog players who play without heart, don't seem to care, and only show up to collect their game cheque.

If the players are going to sleepwalk and lollygag their way through the rest of the season, why should the supporters waste their time showing up? :mad:

I can't agree with this. To say the majority of players play without heart is clearly wrong.

I understand the frustration with our performances but you are way off the mark.

[aker39]

It was away game I suppose?

Please

[aker39]

The supporters are obviously being inspired by the majority of Bulldog players who play without heart, don't seem to care, and only show up to collect their game cheque.

If the players are going to sleepwalk and lollygag their way through the rest of the season, why should the supporters waste their time showing up? :mad:

Whatever you need to justify it.:confused::confused::confused:

[LostDoggy]

I can't agree with this. To say the majority of players play without heart is clearly wrong.

I understand the frustration with our performances but you are way off the mark.

There was a lot of heart and effort last night that was missing in the Geelong and particularly the West Coast game. I know pessimistic supporters that love the club and none of us deserve to see the heartless performance we put in against the eagles. Expect the sentiment created in some supporters from that game to linger until we do something special.

[LostDoggy]

!
Sledge - the toe rag Milne for carrying on like he just scored the winning goal in a world cup final! What a pathetic little wind up merchant he is and the fist pumps inciting the crowd. It's no wonder he cops plenty!:rolleyes:
What an awful little man, I wanted to rip him from the tv and clean my toilet with his head.

[Ghost Dog]

I thought 3 minutes in that playing Hudson was a mistake. Mulligan had a tough match-up on Gamble (from a size vs agility aspect but acquitted himself reasonably well). Huddo is great in the middle but his lack of agility around the ground is hurting us when combined with Will's.


Slap:
- James Mulligan's burst through the middle and kick to Gia in the 2nd. Not something I ever expected to see from him
-Tom Williams game on Riewoldt (with a chop out from Morris). Looked a thousand times better than his last 3 weeks. some excellent use of the body.

Sledges:
-Ryan Griffen's kicking in general and his decision making. Doesn't seem to see the option and bombs it to nothing a lot.
-Nathan Djerkurra's missed goal in the 3rd and his decision to pass off to Jones under pressure a few minutes later helped lose us some real momentum.

Not a slap anywhere for huddo? thought he was pretty good myself. Gutsy effort from an old man.

[Ghost Dog]

Which 'older' players aren't kicking to the jumper?

Higgins for one.

[G-Mo77]

Not a slap anywhere for huddo? thought he was pretty good myself. Gutsy effort from an old man.

The old man part was very noticeable, as a young up and comer dominated, don't know what could be Minson's excuse though. I thought McEvoy was the difference last night.

[G-Mo77]

Slap: - James Mulligan's burst through the middle and kick to Gia in the 2nd. Not something I ever expected to see from him

One of the few in play highlights of the night that one. There was a good mark by Stack I think and a couple of high flying marking attempts but that was play of the night from a Bulldogs point of view.

[Greystache]

Please

I think that's a reasonable defence, I know that my Dad and his group of mates regularly don't go to away games because they don't want to fight the crowd to get a decent seat, and they object to the way Etihad sells reserved seats. They've got reserved seats for all Bulldog games and never miss. That's 5 supporters I alone know.

[bornadog]

I think that's a reasonable defence, I know that my Dad and his group of mates regularly don't go to away games because they don't want to fight the crowd to get a decent seat, and they object to the way Etihad sells reserved seats. They've got reserved seats for all Bulldog games and never miss. That's 5 supporters I alone know.


Please

lucky to have 5000 Bulldogs supporters there, plenty of empty seats, about 20,000 actually.

[The Underdog]

Not a slap anywhere for huddo? thought he was pretty good myself. Gutsy effort from an old man.

Well if you want a 200cm clearance player that essentially puts us a a man down once the ball leaves a clearance then yes, slap away. I'd rather play Roughhead and have a chance of him keeping up with a player like McEvoy.

I love Huddo and what he's given us in the past but the sub rule will end his career after this year. Yes he helps us in the clearances but he's a liability everywhere else.

Oh and I didn't fit him into my 2 slaps but didn't sledge him either, although i guess i have now. Was trying to stick to the rules of the thread as pointless as that might be.

[The Underdog]

One of the few in play highlights of the night that one. There was a good mark by Stack I think and a couple of high flying marking attempts but that was play of the night from a Bulldogs point of view.

The fact that he kicked it long to the advantage of his teammate made it a standout moment on a night where it hardly happened and showed more nous than I thought he had.

[G-Mo77]

lucky to have 5000 Bulldogs supporters there, plenty of empty seats, about 20,000 actually.

Will we break 20K next Friday?

[bornadog]

Will we break 20K next Friday?

yeah, that is interesting. I am going with a couple of clients from WA, great show case for them.

[Ghost Dog]

Well if you want a 200cm clearance player that essentially puts us a a man down once the ball leaves a clearance then yes, slap away. I'd rather play Roughhead and have a chance of him keeping up with a player like McEvoy.

I love Huddo and what he's given us in the past but the sub rule will end his career after this year. Yes he helps us in the clearances but he's a liability everywhere else.

He didn't pick himself. Don't blame a player for falling short in areas they have no control over. If anyone, blame the MC. He put in.

[The Underdog]

He didn't pick himself. Don't blame a player for falling short in areas they have no control over. If anyone, blame the MC. He put in.

I'm pretty sure that's what I did in the first post, I said the selection was a mistake, it's not Huddo's fault that Minson is also slow but more versatile and therefore should be picked ahead of him. Or that Roughhead is younger and can play forward and therefore should also be played ahead of him.
I also didn't question his effort and never would. I know he gives his all but if Minson plays he shouldn't and vice versa.

[azabob]

Slap- Jones really got involved in the last quarter and had an impact.

Sledge- Griffen's kick at goal in the last. Could he have shanked it anymore?

[ratsmac]

Slaps -
Dollhouse - Instant spark that we needed, he gets in the right spots to be an option. We need more like him.
Boyd - He tries more that anyone. Leads through example, but has to figure out how to bring the team with him.
MC - Made a lot of good match ups

Sledges -
Team - We lost again
Umps - Some really dodgy decisions really hurt us. Bad decisions for both teams but we seemed to get caught out more than they did. Advantage my arse:mad:
Boyd - Kick it to us please
Milne - Just because

[The Underdog]

Milne - Just because

Funny you sledged him, there's no player I'd like to slap more...

[G-Mo77]

Funny you sledged him, there's no player I'd like to slap more...

If I had the chance I can guarantee you I wouldn't deliver a slap. :)

[Ghost Dog]

I'm pretty sure that's what I did in the first post, I said the selection was a mistake, it's not Huddo's fault that Minson is also slow but more versatile and therefore should be picked ahead of him. Or that Roughhead is younger and can play forward and therefore should also be played ahead of him.
I also didn't question his effort and never would. I know he gives his all but if Minson plays he shouldn't and vice versa.

Fair enough and well said.

[w3design]

What an awful little man, I wanted to rip him from the tv and clean my toilet with his head.
The first time I have been able to smile since the game.

[w3design]

Not a slap anywhere for huddo? thought he was pretty good myself. Gutsy effort from an old man.
I thought he was very poor. Body positioning awful, at least twice tried to out mark Mcevoy from behind, and his tap work dreadful. Maybe these things not as evident on tv, GD, but I was really sad to see how far the Bearded One has slipped.

[KT31]

What an awful little man, I wanted to rip him from the tv and clean my toilet with his head.

Imagine it would be a very long queue and you would have to wait a while for your turn.

[Ghost Dog]

I thought he was very poor. Body positioning awful, at least twice tried to out mark Mcevoy from behind, and his tap work dreadful. Maybe these things not as evident on tv, GD, but I was really sad to see how far the Bearded One has slipped.

Fair enough remember54. defer to those who were at the game

[bornadog]

Fair enough remember54. defer to those who were at the game

I was at the game and he won the tap outs and wasn't too bad around the ground. Should have taken some marks that he didn't, but really crashed some packs at some vital times.

[BulldogBelle]

Slap
- Boyd- answered critics and played a reasonable game
- Higgins - first half played a decent game behind the ball
- Dalhaus - a good output from the sub


Sledge
-Our kicking for goal. Griffen, Cross, Jones, Gia into the man on the mark...easy goals we should have got we missed from set shots
- Djukerra- this guy will be with us for 3 years?
- Hudson- how many times did he get outmarked by smaller players? How tall are you Ben? 200cms? Lift your arms and hold a mark if your going to call for the ball
- Barlow - fights hard and runs hard, but when he gets the ball he looks like a deer in the headlights...along with Stack I close my eyes at times when they have the ball

[Desipura]

Slap: Boyd, gave his all

Slap Higgins first half - 21 possessions and very creative.

Sledge Higgins second half 6 possessions and went missing.

Sledge - The team, you can't win a game with 2 goals in a half of football.

Higgins got 27 possessions and played his best game for at least 6 months and you sledge him?
I thought you were into stats :D
Huddo had 25 hit outs, 19 possessions (fair effort for a ruck man) and wait dot it.........6 tackles.
Minson had only 7 possessions and 14 hit outs and not many tackles.
Huddo made a number of errors yet he offered us much more than Minson

[aker39]

Higgins got 27 possessions and played his best game for at least 6 months and you sledge him?
I thought you were into stats :D
Huddo had 25 hit outs, 19 possessions (fair effort for a ruck man) and wait dot it.........6 tackles.
Minson had only 7 possessions and 14 hit outs and not many tackles.
Huddo made a number of errors yet he offered us much more than Minson

Have another read. He sledged his 2nd half where he only got 6 possessions.
Fair enough sledge to me.

[AndrewP6]

Sledge: Boyd, if i'm not mistaken he was at 51% efficiency.


Thank god, I thought I was alone. For mine, 51% efficiency is not a captain's game at all. No point getting 39 possies if less than half of those are any good. Sledge, IMO.

[AndrewP6]

Slaps:

Roald Dahlhaus... (I'm trying to be funny to get my mind off the game!). Gave a spark, some energy, and showed a bit in his first game.

Jones. Glimpses of what he may bring in the future - and his running style makes me laugh.

Sledges:

Boyd -. yes, I know, he put in, gave his all etc etc... but disposal like that is just not good enough, and not what I'd call a captain's game.

Senior players missing golden opportunities.

[Bulldog Joe]

Huddo had 25 hit outs, 19 possessions (fair effort for a ruck man) and wait dot it.........6 tackles.
Minson had only 7 possessions and 14 hit outs and not many tackles.
Huddo made a number of errors yet he offered us much more than Minson

Not sure I believe all the stats as at the game Hudson was poor in aerial contests, yet Minson seemed to more than hold his own when he was in the ruck.

With Hudson taking the No 1 ruck spot Minson was out of the play a lot and both are being exposed for mobility. Unfortunately neither take enough marks around the ground, but we must play one of them as Roughead is not ready for the heavy work.

Hudson is credited with 25 hitouts and 1 only to the team advantage.
Hudson also had 19 possession mostly handpasses but only 63% efficiency.

Minson is credited with 14 but 5 to advantage, and did give the goal to Boyd with a nice tap.

As most posters are aware I have been a Minson fan and still believe he is a better option than Hudson or Roughead at this point.

Having said that I am disappointed that he has not improved with his marking at AFL level, when he does so much better at VFL level.

It is a serious deficiency in the 2011 team when you see the improvement that has come in other sides with McEvoy, Renouf at Hawthorn and now the emergence of Vardy at Geelong.

[Desipura]

Bj, if Minson was 21yo and playing the way he is, I too would be optimistic he could develop his marking at become our number 1 ruck man.
At 25yo and over 100 games under his belt, what gives you any confidence that he can improve from here on end?

He will have the odd day out ie against Richmond, but overall I do not think he will ever consistently become a good mark. Also he does not consistently influence a game.
Vardy shows a fair bit of promise, and he can take a mark that will develop further over time. Minson should be ahead of McEvoy and Vardy in his development yet both players beat him.

[Dogmatic]

Bj, if Minson was 21yo and playing the way he is, I too would be optimistic he could develop his marking at become our number 1 ruck man.
At 25yo and over 100 games under his belt, what gives you any confidence that he can improve from here on end?

He will have the odd day out ie against Richmond, but overall I do not think he will ever consistently become a good mark. Also he does not consistently influence a game.
Vardy shows a fair bit of promise, and he can take a mark that will develop further over time. Minson should be ahead of McEvoy and Vardy in his development yet both players beat him.

There have been some good examples of ruckman who have developed into A graders in their mid-twenties like Mark Jamar. Right now i think Minson is our best ruckman so when he is consistently played as our number 1 ruckman, i think he will step up.

[Bulldog Joe]

Bj, if Minson was 21yo and playing the way he is, I too would be optimistic he could develop his marking at become our number 1 ruck man.
At 25yo and over 100 games under his belt, what gives you any confidence that he can improve from here on end?

He will have the odd day out ie against Richmond, but overall I do not think he will ever consistently become a good mark. Also he does not consistently influence a game.
Vardy shows a fair bit of promise, and he can take a mark that will develop further over time. Minson should be ahead of McEvoy and Vardy in his development yet both players beat him.

Well Desi, as I expressed in my post I am disappointed with his progress. I do not have blind faith.

While I don't agree that McEvoy and Vardy beat him rucking, they are certainly more likely to take a mark.

He has actually done ok one out in the forward line as per the Richmond game but requires the ball moved quickly as he is no chance against a pack, but he is not often outmarked in that situation. When given the main ruck duties he is the most likely to give it to the team advantage.



Hudson has always had low marking stats as well and it seems he also struggles to influence a marking contest.

[LostDoggy]

There have been some good examples of ruckman who have developed into A graders in their mid-twenties like Mark Jamar. Right now i think Minson is our best ruckman so when he is consistently played as our number 1 ruckman, i think he will step up.

I agree, we just need Roughy fit and in the team as well. That will be a good combo. Some days may see Will subbed off.

[neddie]

Slap - The younger brigade and general effort.
Slap - Howard. Good work - composed and c areful kicker
Slap - Barlow - showed a bit
Slap- Doll-house. Much needed pep
Slap - Liam Picken and Morris - Great effort
Slap - Rocket - he gave us a fighting chance and the players had to do the rest. Not really his fault tonight.

Sledge - whoever thought up the new version of the advantage rule. Not the umps fault, they just call it how it is. Cross took three or four steps, too bad, more as a reflex - that's the rule as it stands.

One telling shot showed Cooney, Lake, Hargrave, Barry all sitting together. That's a lot of $$ warming plastic seats, sipping cokes while our season goes begging. So it goes. Someone has to miss out and we're not top four - that's sport
Howard was recruited for his left foot and long accurate kicking. We are now seeing the benefits of this.

[Maddog37]

Slap. Williams, showing constant improvement even though it is slow.

Slap Mulligan, for a supposed spud athlete with no footy nous that run through the middle and kick to Gia was impressive.

Slap Howard has a hard edge belying the way he looks.


No real point in sledging at this stage.

[Mofra]

There have been some good examples of ruckman who have developed into A graders in their mid-twenties like Mark Jamar. Right now i think Minson is our best ruckman so when he is consistently played as our number 1 ruckman, i think he will step up.
Minson is now at the age Hudson started his AFL career, and he is close to overtaking Hudson now. Huddo, as much as I am a fan, has struggled to put two good games together this season and I don't think Minson & Hudson can play in the same side.

[KT31]

Minson is now at the age Hudson started his AFL career, and he is close to overtaking Hudson now. Huddo, as much as I am a fan, has struggled to put two good games together this season and I don't think Minson & Hudson can play in the same side.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agree totally with this.

[Ozza]

Slap - Daulhaus, for being the only player to effectively spread and run into space. Would like to see more of him this season.

Slap - Boyd - great leadership. Again, he did everything he could to try to drag us to the line.

Sledge - Ward - just didn't get involved. Really has had only a couple of good games this year.
Sledge - Mistakes in defence that cost us goals - Murph, Higgins, Morris all culrpits at different stages.

[Jasper]

Thank god, I thought I was alone. For mine, 51% efficiency is not a captain's game at all. No point getting 39 possies if less than half of those are any good. Sledge, IMO.

Yeah, I'd much prefer a player get 2 possessions at 100% efficiency.
The crap people throw at Boyd's so-called efficiency is a joke.

If Higgins, Gia, Sherman etc etc worked as hard as the Captain getting the footy, he wouldn't have to carry the load he does and we might be competitive

[AndrewP6]

Yeah, I'd much prefer a player get 2 possessions at 100% efficiency.
The crap people throw at Boyd's so-called efficiency is a joke.

If Higgins, Gia, Sherman etc etc worked as hard as the Captain getting the footy, he wouldn't have to carry the load he does and we might be competitive

Sorry, Captain G, but IMO you've got to look after the pill, not give it back to the opponent just after you get it. Your example was a bit extreme, but yes, I'd rather see 10 possessions taken care of than 40, half of which are returned to the opponent.

[Ozza]

Sorry, Captain G, but IMO you've got to look after the pill, not give it back to the opponent just after you get it. Your example was a bit extreme, but yes, I'd rather see 10 possessions taken care of than 40, half of which are returned to the opponent.

You have to take in consideration that plenty of Boyd's possessions are under the pump. And quite often - you're kicking efficiency is also a reflection of the options you have up the field.

With Higgins loose behind the ball, we were already one option short down forward, we had Barlow playing a high half forward - so we left ourselves pretty limited with Gia and Jones as the only real targets and a couple of others (Sherman etc) floating through there.

I'm not saying Boyd doesn't waste the ball sometimes - but often those stats are deceiving - and you are only really as good as the options you have to kick to.

[LostDoggy]

Much rather someone that can get the ball then someone that can't. Boyd's 40 possession at 50% is still better than someone in the same position with 10 possessions at 100%. How do you look after the pill if you can't get it.

[The Coon Dog]

Much rather someone that can get the ball then someone that can't. Boyd's 40 possession at 50% is still better than someone in the same position with 10 possessions at 100%. How do you look after the pill if you can't get it.

I can't quite do the maths on that Chops & come up with the same answer.

If you have 40 possies & turn over 50% then your net result is a draw, 40 gained, 20 kept & 20 given up.

10 at 100% is a positive of 10.

I'm confused! :eek:

[LostDoggy]

I can't quite do the maths on that Chops & come up with the same answer.

If you have 40 possies & turn over 50% then your net result is a draw, 40 gained, 20 kept & 20 given up.

10 at 100% is a positive of 10.

I'm confused! :eek:

Yes it's still 10 more effective disposals. It's not a draw

[LostDoggy]

Also its much harder to stay at 100% than improve from 50%.
If you are gonna take the game on you will never get to 100% anyway. We dropped Gilbee for these reasons and Sam Power would still be at the club.

[The Coon Dog]

Yes it's still 10 more effective disposals. It's not a draw

But its also 20 the other way, the net result is zero.

[comrade]

But its also 20 the other way, the net result is zero.

You're playing a dangerous game getting into a debate on this one, TCD!

:D

[Scorlibo]

But its also 20 the other way, the net result is zero.

An ineffective kick implies loss of possession, it does not imply loss of possession to the opposition. A clanger is the stat reserved for this.

A better way to look at it would be to award a point for every contested possession (ie. winning a possession in a chain), a point for every effective possession (ie. continuation of the chain), zero points for every ineffective possession (as it neither continues or discontinues the chain) and subtract a point for every clanger (ie. start of a chain of non-possession).

By this method, Boyd directly gave us 37 possessions (20+20-3).

And here are the full rankings of possessions won (vs. possessions credited):

1. Boyd - 37 (39)
2. Morris - 30 (23)
3. Picken - 24 (27)
4. Murphy - 22 (24)
5. Hudson - 20 (19)
6. Cross - 20 (17)
7. Higgins - 19 (27)
8. Giansiracusa - 19 (15)
9. Sherman - 18 (23)
10. Williams - 18 (13)
11. Liberatore - 17 (18)
12. Griffen - 16 (18)
13. Howard - 15 (18)
14. Ward - 14 (11)
15. Barlow - 13 (18)
16. Wood - 11 (8)
17. Djerrkura - 10 (12)
18. Stack - 9 (12)
19. Minson - 8 (7)
20. Dahlhaus - 7 (9)
21. Jones - 6 (13)
22. Mulligan - 3 (3)

[always right]

An ineffective kick implies loss of possession, it does not imply loss of possession to the opposition. A clanger is the stat reserved for this.



Hmmmm....a couple of questions if you don't mind.

If an ineffective kick implies loss of possession, surely that can only mean loss of possession to the opposition. Can you lose possession to a team mate?

If a clanger is the loss of possession to an opponent, does this include situations where the ball is kicked to a one on one contest and the team mate is simply outmarked by his opponent? I would have hardly classified that as a clanger.

[LostDoggy]

But its also 20 the other way, the net result is zero.

At the worst case it is zero as not ineffective disposals come back the other way and at the very least they are taking on the game. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[LostDoggy]

Hmmmm....a couple of questions if you don't mind.

If an ineffective kick implies loss of possession, surely that can only mean loss of possession to the opposition. Can you lose possession to a team mate?


What about a contested situation? As a ball-up, throw in or even a 50/50. They are losses of possession too I would guess.

[Scorlibo]

Hmmmm....a couple of questions if you don't mind.

If an ineffective kick implies loss of possession, surely that can only mean loss of possession to the opposition. Can you lose possession to a team mate?

If a clanger is the loss of possession to an opponent, does this include situations where the ball is kicked to a one on one contest and the team mate is simply outmarked by his opponent? I would have hardly classified that as a clanger.

You can lose possession to a contest.

If a player kicks to a contest, it doesn't matter who wins the ball from there, it will still be counted as an ineffective possession.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Hmmmm....a couple of questions if you don't mind.

If an ineffective kick implies loss of possession, surely that can only mean loss of possession to the opposition.


What if it went out of bounds?

[DragzLS1]

40 possessions with 50% efficiency equals 20 successful. 20 compared to 10, I don't know about anybody else but IDE rather 20 over 10, not to mention atlas 20 of those are being kicked the opposite way not towards our own goal.

[Ozza]

I can't believe there is even a debate about whether 10 'effective disposals' is better than 40.

Unless 6 or more of those 10 effective disposals are goals - I couldn't care less. 10 effective disposals can mean 10 Farren Ray sidewards 15 metre kicks in defence. The 'efficiency' stat can be very very misleading. The fact is, anyone watching Friday nights game knows that Boyd led from the front - got us the footy and tried to make things happen.

[azabob]

I can't believe there is even a debate about whether 10 'effective disposals' is better than 40.

Unless 6 or more of those 10 effective disposals are goals - I couldn't care less. 10 effective disposals can mean 10 Farren Ray sidewards 15 metre kicks in defence. The 'efficiency' stat can be very very misleading. The fact is, anyone watching Friday nights game knows that Boyd led from the front - got us the footy and tried to make things happen.

Well summed up.

[Topdog]

I can't believe there is even a debate about whether 10 'effective disposals' is better than 40.

Unless 6 or more of those 10 effective disposals are goals - I couldn't care less. 10 effective disposals can mean 10 Farren Ray sidewards 15 metre kicks in defence. The 'efficiency' stat can be very very misleading. The fact is, anyone watching Friday nights game knows that Boyd led from the front - got us the footy and tried to make things happen.

Agree Boyd is a bit of a butcher but I thought last Friday was his best game of the year.

[always right]

You can lose possession to a contest.

If a player kicks to a contest, it doesn't matter who wins the ball from there, it will still be counted as an ineffective possession.

Fair enough.....and my question re the classification of a "clanger"?

[Scorlibo]

Fair enough.....and my question re the classification of a "clanger"?

A clanger is when a player kicks or handpasses the ball to an opponent in an uncontested situation.

[bornadog]

The definition of a contested possession has also been changed this year.

It's easier than ever to get a contested possession - stats a fact


A slight shift in the interpretation of what constitutes a contested possession means the initial gather from any hitout, whether the tap comes from an opponent or a teammate, is now considered a ''contested possession''.

Until this year, only gathers from hitouts off the hand of an opposition ruckman were recorded as contested touches because they are classified as statistics extracted from a ''disputed ball'' situation.

Gathers from a teammate's hitout were considered uncontested possessions before the change of philosophy in 2011, which now classes all stoppages as disputed ball situations and gathers from those stoppages as contested touches.


Full story HERE (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/its-easier-than-ever-to-get-a-contested-possession--stats-a-fact-20110608-1ft72.html)

[always right]

The definition of a contested possession has also been changed this year.

It's easier than ever to get a contested possession - stats a fact


A slight shift in the interpretation of what constitutes a contested possession means the initial gather from any hitout, whether the tap comes from an opponent or a teammate, is now considered a ''contested possession''.

Until this year, only gathers from hitouts off the hand of an opposition ruckman were recorded as contested touches because they are classified as statistics extracted from a ''disputed ball'' situation.

Gathers from a teammate's hitout were considered uncontested possessions before the change of philosophy in 2011, which now classes all stoppages as disputed ball situations and gathers from those stoppages as contested touches.


Full story HERE (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/its-easier-than-ever-to-get-a-contested-possession--stats-a-fact-20110608-1ft72.html)


I find the following paragraph the most interesting;


A player's contested possession tally is the sum of his hard-ball gets, loose-ball gets, contested marks, free kicks for, gathers from hitouts and ''contested knock-ons'', a new variation introduced this year.

So a "loose ball get is classified as a contested possession. How far away does an opposition player have to be before the classification changes to an uncontested possession?

Learning more and more about these stats. Lesson for me is we should be wary when putting too much emphasis on "contested possession" and "disposal efficiency" stats.

[Jasper]

Agree Boyd is a bit of a butcher but I thought last Friday was his best game of the year.

I'm so pleased someone has brought the conversation back to the actual point rather than an intellectuals guide to footy stats.
Just be careful complimenting Boyd too often in this company! ;)

[Scorlibo]

I find the following paragraph the most interesting;

So a "loose ball get is classified as a contested possession. How far away does an opposition player have to be before the classification changes to an uncontested possession?

Learning more and more about these stats. Lesson for me is we should be wary when putting too much emphasis on "contested possession" and "disposal efficiency" stats.

It's not about how far away an opposition player is, it's about if the ball is currently in dispossession, ie. the ball is being contested.


Yeah I love my stats but this is plain ridiclulous now.

Why? If you want contested possessions how I think you want them just go look at hard ball gets instead.

[Scorlibo]

I'm so pleased someone has brought the conversation back to the actual point rather than an intellectuals guide to footy stats.
Just be careful complimenting Boyd too often in this company! ;)

The 'intellectuals guide to footy stats' originated through discussion of Boyd's game, and some backing their opinion with stats from the game. It's perfectly relevant.