Mid season review

[Jasper]

Suggest trying to be brief. Quick rating out of ten 0 being rubbish, 5 average, 10 superb. Broken down into a few sections, suggest a couple of sentences on each area. Will try and get a positive comment in.

The Players

2/10

Senior players have slipped. Junior players haven't stepped up. Skills have dropped off alarmingly. Watching the Geelong Hawthorn game where target after target was hit under pressure, made me realise we are a long way off this.

Time in the young players is a good thing. Dollhouse looks exciting. Howard seems to get a bit of the ball...Libba looks the goods.

The Footy Department

2/10

List management is my bugbear - I was keen to trade a slower less skilled ball winning player to get a quick tackling forward to the club. Nahas and Betts were players I was keen on. Instead we got Djerkurra :(. The club seems surprised that our older players are getting injured...well duh. And the lack of improvement in the set shot skills of players like Jones, Roughead and Grant, is an indictment on our skills coaching. Eade's inability to get players to play or cope with a press has been well documented.

Eade playing younger players is a positive..

The Doctors

0/10

The preparation of our A grade players or shall we say lack of preparation is astounding, we now hear Cooney needs a knee operation. Lake is nowhere near fit. The fact that our young guns keeping getting crueled by OP over the years (Cooney, Ward and Higgins). The failure to diagnose Minson's and Higgins conditions quickly last year. Our lack of speed, it is really disappointing.

The Administration

Not in a position to rate, haven't reviewed our balance sheet but this would be the main measurement you would think. They should be giving our club every chance financially to compete.

[bornadog]

The Administration

Not in a position to rate, haven't reviewed our balance sheet but this would be the main measurement you would think. They should be giving our club every chance financially to compete.

On the Administration (from an outsider), I would rate 7/10 as they have started the debt reduction programme and already knocked off $1.5 million. I think next year will be a test as membership will drop and in particlaur social club membership which has been a boon for the club.

[LostDoggy]

On the Administration (from an outsider), I would rate 7/10 as they have started the debt reduction programme and already knocked off $1.5 million. I think next year will be a test as membership will drop and in particlaur social club membership which has been a boon for the club.

I think if we can get some wins on the board last part of the season with some of the younger blokes playing roles this will go a long way in the membership stakes. I agree we may drop a lot of social members because we will not be looking at finals.

[The Underdog]

List management is my bugbear - I was keen to trade a slower less skilled ball winning player to get a quick tackling forward to the club. Nahas and Betts were players I was keen on. Instead we got Djerkurra :(.

That's all well and good but players have to be available to get them and there has to be an avenue to get them.
There's no way in the world Carlton would let Betts go for what we could offer and they already had Brock Maclean who can't get a game as a slower ball winning player. Richmond have recruited midfielders almost exclusively early in the draft the last few years and I can't see the appeal of a slow less skilled ball winner for them. We also didn't have a first round pick to trade, until the pick for Harbrow which we were intent on using for Sherman. The reality is it's a lot easier to talk about these trades than it is to achieve them.
The club attempted to fill this hole and Sherman, Djerkurra and Veszpremi were all there to add either, pace, skill or pressure to the forward half. Has it worked? To varying degrees, but it's also a sample size of 11 games in a team that's faltering. I thought the club clearly had a plan to address a problem and aside from paying over the odds for Djerkurra both in draft pick and contract years they brought in what they could.

[Jasper]

That's all well and good but players have to be available to get them and there has to be an avenue to get them.
There's no way in the world Carlton would let Betts go for what we could offer and they already had Brock Maclean who can't get a game as a slower ball winning player. Richmond have recruited midfielders almost exclusively early in the draft the last few years and I can't see the appeal of a slow less skilled ball winner for them. We also didn't have a first round pick to trade, until the pick for Harbrow which we were intent on using for Sherman. The reality is it's a lot easier to talk about these trades than it is to achieve them.
The club attempted to fill this hole and Sherman, Djerkurra and Veszpremi were all there to add either, pace, skill or pressure to the forward half. Has it worked? To varying degrees, but it's also a sample size of 11 games in a team that's faltering. I thought the club clearly had a plan to address a problem and aside from paying over the odds for Djerkurra both in draft pick and contract years they brought in what they could.

Firstly we shouldn't have been in the position of needing to gap fill if we had managed our list better in recent years.

I was never keen on any of the players we traded to the club last year. And I think we should have offered up something half decent to the Tiges for Nahas. The Tiges had a need for hard bodies thats why they recruited Grigg. We could have offered Addison (after a good finals series) for Nahas (who had poor form but the traits we needed pace, goal kicking and fwd pressure and tackling). History shows Nahas has turned his career around to become a good player this year

We could have used our draft pick to draft a quick skilled player rather than recruit Sherman.

I honestly would have looked at trading Boyd and a pick to Carlton for Betts and a higher pick, so there was a method to do it. But as many have pointed out, Boyd is highly regarded at the club and this was never going to happen.

Everitt for Vez was even but realistically was a gamble that hasn't paid off yet.

[bornadog]

Firstly we shouldn't have been in the position of needing to gap fill if we had managed our list better in recent years.

I was never keen on any of the players we traded to the club last year. And I think we should have offered up something half decent to the Tiges for Nahas. The Tiges had a need for hard bodies thats why they recruited Grigg. We could have offered Addison (after a good finals series) for Nahas (who had poor form but the traits we needed pace, goal kicking and fwd pressure and tackling). History shows Nahas has turned his career around to become a good player this year

We could have used our draft pick to draft a quick skilled player rather than recruit Sherman.

I honestly would have looked at trading Boyd and a pick to Carlton for Betts and a higher pick, so there was a method to do it. But as many have pointed out, Boyd is highly regarded at the club and this was never going to happen.

Everitt for Vez was even but realistically was a gamble that hasn't paid off yet.

All good in theory, but very difficulot to execute. We tried to get Andrew Walker from Carlton but just couldn't get the deal done. We tried to offload Hill, again couldn't. Its not easy to do these deals and you can't blame list management for not getting it done.

[Jasper]

All good in theory, but very difficulot to execute. We tried to get Andrew Walker from Carlton but just couldn't get the deal done. We tried to offload Hill, again couldn't. Its not easy to do these deals and you can't blame list management for not getting it done.

Firstly, well its their job to get the deal done. And secondly list management is about who you retain. We have retained too many players of the same age and of similar skill set and needed to cull these by trade or delisting some players earlier.

[GVGjr]

All good in theory, but very difficulot to execute. We tried to get Andrew Walker from Carlton but just couldn't get the deal done. We tried to offload Hill, again couldn't. Its not easy to do these deals and you can't blame list management for not getting it done.

I can't agree with this. We went harder for Sherman than we did for Walker and we had a deal for Hill (that we originally agreed to) but then reneged on it due to timing stating he was now worth a top 20 draft pick. We also paid too high of a price for Djerrkura because we didn't close the deal correctly.

In my opinion it's not a theory that we kept Eagleton and Akermanis on one season too many and it's not a theory that we didn't cut into the list sufficiently leading into the compromised drafts. I know we aren't going to get every player that we target but we have a way to go before I would say we are good list managers.

[Pedro Sanchez]

And what about a section for the fans - surely we should get an 11 out of 10 for sticking fat and putting up with the dross that's been served up week after week...

Still, as rubbish as we've been and although there isnt an immediate ray of hope - maybe with a new coach, fresh messages and new way of doing things, wonders could be worked in the near future with this massively underperforming list.

Some may not agree, but I cant accept a side can go from top 4 three years running to bottom four the next. Sure you can drop off, but that's to greater contrast for my liking...

I like Eade and what his done for the club, but my view is we need a change at the top.

[The Adelaide Connection]

I am starting to wonder whether the broken promise of resting players at certain times in 2008,09 and 10 has really hurt the development of our younger players. Getting more games into these guys in a team in good form with a positive, winning culture would have made a huge difference.

Collingwood blooded Fasalo today and he looked pretty good, but I bet he would have struggled for a touch if he was playing for Melbourne.

[azabob]

I am starting to wonder whether the broken promise of resting players at certain times in 2008,09 and 10 has really hurt the development of our younger players. Getting more games into these guys in a team in good form with a positive, winning culture would have made a huge difference.

Collingwood blooded Fasalo today and he looked pretty good, but I bet he would have struggled for a touch if he was playing for Melbourne.

Interesting point AC which I think has a bit of merit to it.

[1eyedog]

The players get a 5 from me. We should have six wins as we were very unlucky against Freo and Sydney, nothing in it really. We should have beaten the Saints too. Six wins and six losses would look much better, unfortunately we don't have them, but we were not far away.

The Essendon and Weagles game are the biggest concerns, as was the last quarter against Collingwood.

[1eyedog]

And what about a section for the fans - surely we should get an 11 out of 10 for sticking fat and putting up with the dross that's been served up week after week...

Still, as rubbish as we've been and although there isnt an immediate ray of hope - maybe with a new coach, fresh messages and new way of doing things, wonders could be worked in the near future with this massively underperforming list.

Some may not agree, but I cant accept a side can go from top 4 three years running to bottom four the next. Sure you can drop off, but that's to greater contrast for my liking...

I like Eade and what his done for the club, but my view is we need a change at the top.

Collingwood played in two losing Grand Finals before dropping out of the 8 the following year. IMO The Aints aren't any better than us after playing in last years Grand Final. We should have beaten them Friday night, they are crap! As Wolfman said "Crash and burn hey Mav!"

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

And what about a section for the fans - surely we should get an 11 out of 10 for sticking fat and putting up with the dross that's been served up week after week...

Still, as rubbish as we've been and although there isnt an immediate ray of hope - maybe with a new coach, fresh messages and new way of doing things, wonders could be worked in the near future with this massively underperforming list.

Some may not agree, but I cant accept a side can go from top 4 three years running to bottom four the next. Sure you can drop off, but that's to greater contrast for my liking...

I like Eade and what his done for the club, but my view is we need a change at the top.

The inability to recruit quality key positional players apart from Lake has been a major concern for many years. We also lack class forwards. Barry Hall gave us the impetus last year to make another prelim final but he was one out. Walker would have been a huge get for the club and a far better option than Sherman.
It would be too simple to disperse with Eade, when he simply doesn't have the talent at his disposal. Recruiting rejects from other clubs like DJ, Vez and Barlow rarely works and smacks of desperation.Eade needs to take some responsibility for these decisions as at the end of the day it is his call.

[G-Mo77]

I don't know about that NBP.

Sherman is exactly the type of player we did need. Very quick and a good finisher around goals it is something we lacked in 2010.

[LostDoggy]

In hindsight the half-hearted pursuit of Walker may have been a mistake.
While he gets a few opportunists goals, he is 4th in the Coleman.
Playing as a quick midsized forward, gets solid pressure and has an absolute elite tank. Right up there in terms of fitness and the 'easy' goals he gets are from just out running his man up and down

[Topdog]

All good in theory, but very difficulot to execute. We tried to get Andrew Walker from Carlton but just couldn't get the deal done. We tried to offload Hill, again couldn't. Its not easy to do these deals and you can't blame list management for not getting it done.

I'm sorry but that just basically means that there is no such thing as a bad negotiator / trade facilitator and I can't accept that.

We couldn't offload Hill because we over valued him.

We got DJ.

We didn't get Walker because we didn't try enough.

[bornadog]

I can't agree with this. We went harder for Sherman than we did for Walker and we had a deal for Hill (that we originally agreed to) but then reneged on it due to timing stating he was now worth a top 20 draft pick. We also paid too high of a price for Djerrkura because we didn't close the deal correctly.

In my opinion it's not a theory that we kept Eagleton and Akermanis on one season too many and it's not a theory that we didn't cut into the list sufficiently leading into the compromised drafts. I know we aren't going to get every player that we target but we have a way to go before I would say we are good list managers.

Well I never said we were good at it. I said its all good in theory that we should have done this and should have done that, but in reality, its very hard to get the players in a trade that you really want.

[bornadog]

I'm sorry but that just basically means that there is no such thing as a bad negotiator / trade facilitator and I can't accept that.

We couldn't offload Hill because we over valued him.

We got DJ.

We didn't get Walker because we didn't try enough.

Never said no such thing as a bad negotiator, your putting words into my mouth, I said its difficult to get the players you REALLY want.

What is easy is to sit back and criticize.

[Jasper]

What is easy is to sit back and criticize.

Its also easy to sit back and complacently accept the status quo - a meaningless comment that adds nothing to the discussion.

[bornadog]

Its also easy to sit back and complacently accept the status quo - a meaningless comment that adds nothing to the discussion.

that statement is crap. You obviousley can't read. Where did I say I accept the status quo? Where did I say we were good at trade time?

You may think its meaningless to the discussion but I don't because I find discussing what we should have done as meaningless.

[LostDoggy]

Firstly, well its their job to get the deal done. And secondly list management is about who you retain. We have retained too many players of the same age and of similar skill set and needed to cull these by trade or delisting some players earlier.

It would've been a genius call to cull more of our senior players given johnno, aker and eagleton all fell out plus they had made the decision to cull Hahn. They clearly felt the window was solid but the reality is the impact from also losing an AA full-back (effectively still injured given he doesn't trust his knee = can't play), a brownlow medal mid-fielder (shot -put him on ice until '12), your two first choice ruckmen and one of the best full-forwards in the league is massive. To my mind whilst the year is a write-off I still see a swift upside next year and the year after if coons comes back, lake comes back and we develop hill, panos, jones or cordy as a full - forward. Cordy surely has to stand up soon. I also think we need to draft for a key back, a damn fast midfielder and Paul Roos.

I would trade Higgins as it's not happening for him and I don't see further improvement year on year. I'd also consider trading Lake (ouch) if he doesn't want to listen to orders as someone would offer decent currency for him. Geeze I wish we'd grabbed Walker.

[FrediKanoute]

It would've been a genius call to cull more of our senior players given johnno, aker and eagleton all fell out plus they had made the decision to cull Hahn. They clearly felt the window was solid but the reality is the impact from also losing an AA full-back (effectively still injured given he doesn't trust his knee = can't play), a brownlow medal mid-fielder (shot -put him on ice until '12), your two first choice ruckmen and one of the best full-forwards in the league is massive. To my mind whilst the year is a write-off I still see a swift upside next year and the year after if coons comes back, lake comes back and we develop hill, panos, jones or cordy as a full - forward. Cordy surely has to stand up soon. I also think we need to draft for a key back, a damn fast midfielder and Paul Roos.

I would trade Higgins as it's not happening for him and I don't see further improvement year on year. I'd also consider trading Lake (ouch) if he doesn't want to listen to orders as someone would offer decent currency for him. Geeze I wish we'd grabbed Walker.

Not a fan of trading Higgins. The guy is all class and yes he isn't showing it at the moment, but if we lose Ward to GWS and trade Higgins, its a bloody big hole in our midefield which guys like Libba and Wally just aren't ready to fill.

as for grabbing Walker, he was the one guy I reckon we should have gone after, problem was his 5 goals on the last day of the season meant that rather than being worth a pint of larger and a packet of chips, his price rocketed......maybe rather tham bemoaning what we haven't got we should look at what we do have and hope that just as Walker seems to have turned it all around this year Higgo will do the same.

[Bulldog Joe]

Well collectively supporters do seem to take a negative long term view pretty easily.

2011 to date has been a season where plenty has gone wrong and certainly things need to be done to address the problems that have occurred.

However, I don't agree with those calling for the head of the coach.

Issues around Lake, Cooney and others on fitness issues may have been better handled, but unless we are on the inside, we really don't know and we are not the first club to be severely hampered by injury problems.

I do believe we made some mistakes at trade time.
We absolutely overpaid for Djerrkura.
Everitt needed to be traded but Veszpremi is yet to give any value.
The Hill trade could have been taken.
...but none of these may have made a difference.

We can all use hindsight to point out what could have been done, but it does not allow us to revisit.

When we look back on the Eade era, we have had the most sustained period of success in our history, albeit without the ultimate goal.

What I don't want is a return to things the way they were prior to the stability brought by Smorgon and Eade. Maybe I am an eternal optimist, but I retain faith in the people in charge.

[Ghost Dog]

Not a fan of trading Higgins. The guy is all class and yes he isn't showing it at the moment, but if we lose Ward to GWS and trade Higgins, its a bloody big hole in our midefield which guys like Libba and Wally just aren't ready to fill.

as for grabbing Walker, he was the one guy I reckon we should have gone after, problem was his 5 goals on the last day of the season meant that rather than being worth a pint of larger and a packet of chips, his price rocketed......maybe rather tham bemoaning what we haven't got we should look at what we do have and hope that just as Walker seems to have turned it all around this year Higgo will do the same.

If I was a HR guy in a company, I would look at Higgins and say ' crying out for responsibility'. Put him in charge of something, maybe even vice captaincy. One guy I feel would grow quickly with a role and not take it for granted.

Not getting a return on our investment there and the years are ticking by. the nature of our performance so far this season is going to have people sharpening their axes but it would be a waste to get rid of players who can still give us something.

[Desipura]

Hey Moffra, I think we could fit Walker in our current forward line, what do you think?;)

[Jasper]

that statement is crap. You obviousley can't read. Where did I say I accept the status quo? Where did I say we were good at trade time?

You may think its meaningless to the discussion but I don't because I find discussing what we should have done as meaningless.

A couple of points:

When you can spell, I'll read better 'obviousley'

Those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat its mistakes. Every single club conducts an end of season review, and a part of that process will be 'how could we have done that better'.

[bornadog]

Those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat its mistakes. Every single club conducts an end of season review, and a part of that process will be 'how could we have done that better'.

This I agree with, but what I don't agree with is talking about we should have gone for Betts or should have got Nahas or such and such. We don't even know if these guys were up for trade, but your judging the recruiters as if they were. We tried to get a number of players, and we didn't, but the players we got in the trade ie Sherman, DJ and Vez the club were happy about. Now whether they live up to expectations is another thing. One thing I am not happy about is the 3 year deal for DJ. Lets hope for the clubs sake he works out.

I am more happy about discussing what we should do at end of year.

[Happy Days]

This I agree with, but what I don't agree with is talking about we should have gone for Betts or should have got Nahas or such and such. We don't even know if these guys were up for trade, but your judging the recruiters as if they were. We tried to get a number of players, and we didn't, but the players we got in the trade ie Sherman, DJ and Vez the club were happy about. Now whether they live up to expectations is another thing. One thing I am not happy about is the 3 year deal for DJ. Lets hope for the clubs sake he works out.


Good call on all of this; I'm going to be waiting for DJ to get a decent crack at making the forward pocket his before getting into potting him. The three year contract is still ridiculous though.