Draft and Trade Strategy

[GVGjr]

The Cats VFL side has a number of good players and Grima might be worth a look at.

[LostDoggy]

Grima looks awkward to me, but most forwards do when they venture to far from goals. My problem with him is, he ventures to often. Noted that he bagged a lot of goals this season though, i'd be having a close look at him. Specially considering Geelong have there forward line set up for the next 5 years.

[mjp]

first round: big bodied forward/ruckman
second round: inside mid-fielder who is a tough nut
third round - defender who is a good kick and strong mark. Potential to turn into a pinch hitting forward
fourth round: smokey. Clayton has a history of taking a punt on last pick, and picking up a player a year earlier than he should be because he "might" go higher in the following years draft. Harris and O'shea are classic examples.

Rookies: more key position players.

No disrespect Macca, but looking for 'big bodied' players, whether forwards, ruckmans or midfielders amongst a group of 17 year olds is a pipe dream. As for taking someone late one year who would have been an early pick the next? It is urban legend. Never happens...players generally get selected in their first year of eligibility or they dont get picked at all...

[Bulldog Revolution]

No disrespect Macca, but looking for 'big bodied' players, whether forwards, ruckmans or midfielders amongst a group of 17 year olds is a pipe dream. As for taking someone late one year who would have been an early pick the next? It is urban legend. Never happens...players generally get selected in their first year of eligibility or they dont get picked at all...

It really is isn't it,

If the clubs think the player has elite talent they will select them as soon as available. We tabbed Higgins with our number 1 pick and he was the youngest player in the league in 2006.

Clayton has definitely tried a few times with bigs selecting them late, and projecting that they would have had big years the next year and gone higher: Skipper, Bowden, Wiggins, Harris, OShea etc but they were all clearly unpolished gems. And so we've done this with mixed success.

The punt we took on the overweight, unfit, sleepy Brian Harris and its prove to be inspired.
Lets hope OShea can emulate his success.

Last year we took a whole slew of lightly built guys who we knew would take a while but we believed had match winning potential - I think last year Clayton was given the scope to be really daring.

[Dogs 24/7]

Did I just hear right that Robbo has resigned with Melbourne ?.Pretty happy to hear that.

[LostDoggy]

Did I just hear right that Robbo has resigned with Melbourne ?.Pretty happy to hear that.

Yep, just heard on the news on SEN, 2 year deal.....

[Dogs 24/7]

Yep, just heard on the news on SEN, 2 year deal.....
I thought he was after a three year deal.So what exactly did he hold out for ? Im sure the Demons always wanted to sign him for 2 years.

[Twodogs]

I thought he was after a three year deal.So what exactly did he hold out for ? Im sure the Demons always wanted to sign him for 2 years.



He was using us as a bargaining tool to get a better deal probably. Judd said no to Melbourne and the extra money became available is my guess.

[Mofra]

I thought he was after a three year deal.So what exactly did he hold out for ? Im sure the Demons always wanted to sign him for 2 years.

Might have a 3 year clause - play enough games in the 2nd year & automatically be offered a 3rd. Same sort of deal Hudson knocked back at Crows - although given the mass exodus of players from Adelaide, I'm not sure the contract is the only reason Hudson wants to leave.

[The Underdog]

The Cats VFL side has a number of good players and Grima might be worth a look at.

Says in an article in this morning's Hun that Tim Callan has committed to us and only a trade has to be agreed upon. For what that's worth. Anyone know much about him apart from the fact he was another Cats Father-Son?
Would we get away with a swap of 2nd round picks then sending the 2nd rounder to Adelaide for Hudson a ala last year?

[GVGjr]

Says in an article in this morning's Hun that Tim Callan has committed to us and only a trade has to be agreed upon. For what that's worth. Anyone know much about him apart from the fact he was another Cats Father-Son?
Would we get away with a swap of 2nd round picks then sending the 2nd rounder to Adelaide for Hudson a ala last year?

I saw Callan play three times this season for the Cats 2nds and whilst he is no world beater he is the type of player that will provide a much needed defensive edge.

Hard to say what we will provide in return for him but it shouldn't be much. Your option above sounds reasonable. Perhaps Callan might also be a PSD candidate.

[dog town]

Callan has been in the system for 5 years and spent the entire season in the VFL so we wont be spending much on him at all. I dont mind when the club does a bit of homework and tries to make something of a player who is not getting an opportunity elsewhere. We have not been good at it historically but I have no problem with it in principal.

Geelong actually have 5 or 6 guys from the VFL side who would fit in very nicely at another club maybe even more when you consider they also have Tenace, Playfair, Lonergan, Grima, Davenport, Gardiner, Byrnes to name a few. Having a stand alone team seems to have paid off for them. Even their top up players have done well.

[Dry Rot]

Does Grant's retirement alter the landscape a little?

Will the club now chase a developed tall a little harder?

For better or worse, does this bring players like MacGregor into frame?

[Mantis]

Does Grant's retirement alter the landscape a little?

Will the club now chase a developed tall a little harder?

For better or worse, does this bring players like MacGregor into frame?

Wouldn't think so. There doesn't seem to much out there at present in the way of developed talls. Some of the names being bandied around are names that we should stay well clear of.

From reports we will not actively trade for McGregor. If we try and grab 2 players from the one club it has been reported that Adelaide will ask for much more than what they are worth.

[Go_Dogs]

If we chase an established tall, I'd expect it to be in the PSD. A player like McGregor is not going to be worth trading for, if we believe he can offer us something though, the PSD would be the place to snare him.

[LostDoggy]

Callan has been in the system for 5 years and spent the entire season in the VFL so we wont be spending much on him at all. I dont mind when the club does a bit of homework and tries to make something of a player who is not getting an opportunity elsewhere. We have not been good at it historically but I have no problem with it in principal.

Geelong actually have 5 or 6 guys from the VFL side who would fit in very nicely at another club maybe even more when you consider they also have Tenace, Playfair, Lonergan, Grima, Davenport, Gardiner, Byrnes to name a few. Having a stand alone team seems to have paid off for them. Even their top up players have done well.

Dog town, apparently he has a few run ins with coaching staff over the past few years. He would have played more senior games if he hadnt been so vocal toward them.
I dont look at this as a negative, if he comes to us he will realise that it will most likely be his last chance and should pull his head in.
I like him as he is quick and has a good build & doesnt mind the hard stuff & has a bit of mongrel in him.
He also won the B&F for Geelong's VFL side.
Could be our Sammy Mitchell VFL pick :D

[bornadog]

Geelong actually have 5 or 6 guys from the VFL side who would fit in very nicely at another club maybe even more when you consider they also have Tenace, Playfair, Lonergan, Grima, Davenport, Gardiner, Byrnes to name a few. Having a stand alone team seems to have paid off for them. Even their top up players have done well.

Would we consider a Playfair, or Gardiner?

[The Coon Dog]

Would we consider a Playfair, or Gardiner?
Neither instil me with much confidence.

[Mantis]

Neither instil me with any confidence.

Edited for accuracy.

[dog town]

Would we consider a Playfair, or Gardiner?
Doubt it but it depends what Eade wants. Playfair played as Geelong's lead up CHF for a few years with mixed success. Had an injury interrupted year last year and ended up being tried at CHB for the cats VFL side this season where from all reports he had a good season. Given that we have plenty of height down back I am not sure they would look at adding another tall defender especially one who has spent alot of time in the VFL this season.

Gardiner is generally a leading forward who got stuck behind Johnson, Chapman and co. Actually has plenty of ability and is that size just under KPP height. Has issues with playing consistent footy and the odd issue with intensity. He is certainly no mug though.

[Dogs 24/7]

Callan goes alright but he wont put any bums on seats at the kennel. We generally havent done well with recycled players and even a big name like Aker fell a little way short. McDougall might surprise but really woudnt we be better just drafting and developing players rather than speculative trades ?
Is it fair to say we would have heard more about McMahon and Ray if they were really on the trade list ?I hope we dont lose either of them but if we do we need a vgood player in return.

[Lally Bamblett]

McGregor will re-sign with Adelaide for 2 years...does not want to make the move after all

[southerncross]

McGregor will re-sign with Adelaide for 2 years...does not want to make the move after all

Good luck to him. He might struggle to get a regular game though.

[The Underdog]

Callan goes alright but he wont put any bums on seats at the kennel. We generally havent done well with recycled players and even a big name like Aker fell a little way short. McDougall might surprise but really woudnt we be better just drafting and developing players rather than speculative trades ?
Is it fair to say we would have heard more about McMahon and Ray if they were really on the trade list ?I hope we dont lose either of them but if we do we need a vgood player in return.

There'll be bums on seats if he's a part of a successful team. Agree recycled players haven't worked out for us in recent years, although I'm prepared to cut Aker and Doogs a little more slack. Obviously Eade and Clayton are of the view that Callan could be a contributor in an area of need. There can be many reasons a player doesn't perform at one club but can at another if given a shot. There's talk that Callan fell out with the Cas coaching staff. It was also a very tough side to break into with few injuries on a massive roll. We now have 7 spots on the list (if Harbrow is elevated), we have space to draft 4 or 5 guys and bring on 2 or 3 experienced players. If it's a weak draft, as so many are saying, are we really better drafting 7 kids and not trading. We also may still trade an experienced player or two for picks.

[The Underdog]

This is a little left field and concerns next year, but as we apparently are more likely than not to father-son Ayce Cordy, is there anything to stop us promising to pick him up, then get him to essentially tank next year, so that there's less likelihood of another team putting a high draft pick up for him. I'm not sure exactly what form that tanking would take and it may set his development back but it would possibly get him to us at a cheaper price than what he's worth.
I don't know the certainty of him being picked up and the ethics of it suck, but you know there's always ways to try and exploit the system.

[Sockeye Salmon]

This is a little left field and concerns next year, but as we apparently are more likely than not to father-son Ayce Cordy, is there anything to stop us promising to pick him up, then get him to essentially tank next year, so that there's less likelihood of another team putting a high draft pick up for him. I'm not sure exactly what form that tanking would take and it may set his development back but it would possibly get him to us at a cheaper price than what he's worth.
I don't know the certainty of him being picked up and the ethics of it suck, but you know there's always ways to try and exploit the system.

There was some talk of him spending a year in the States on a college basketball scholarship. Sounds like the perfect way to hide him.

[Twodogs]

I'll hide him in my shed for the year if you blokes will kick in for food.

[The Underdog]

I'll hide him in my shed for the year if you blokes will kick in for food.

It'd want to have a high roof and a set of weights.

[Twodogs]

It'd want to have a high roof and a set of weights.



They had kilo boxes of protein at Highpoint last week at 75% off. I could buy a few of those and just give him a couple of cartons of milk a day.

[Raw Toast]

There was some talk of him spending a year in the States on a college basketball scholarship. Sounds like the perfect way to hide him.

Sounds like a decent idea imo - college basketball programs in the US are generally of a pretty high standard so he'd still be developing ball skills, co-ordination and vision. Certainly better than getting someone to tank which could be a bit counter-productive and won't help their development.

A woman at work's son is in the US at the moment on a basketball scholarship and though he's a Melbourne supporter I mention every now and then to his mum that he should get in touch with the dogs when he gets back. - A fairly big lump of a lad who apparently reads the game v well and played a lot of juniour basketball with Scott Pendulbury.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Sounds like a decent idea imo - college basketball programs in the US are generally of a pretty high standard so he'd still be developing ball skills, co-ordination and vision. Certainly better than getting someone to tank which could be a bit counter-productive and won't help their development.

A woman at work's son is in the US at the moment on a basketball scholarship and though he's a Melbourne supporter I mention every now and then to his mum that he should get in touch with the dogs when he gets back. - A fairly big lump of a lad who apparently reads the game v well and played a lot of juniour basketball with Scott Pendulbury.

Depends on the schools, the conference it is in - Division 1 schools are obviously better than Division 2, but there are some very good Division 2 programs - Do you know where he is?

Pendlebury was obviously very good given he was offered an AIS scholarship - and these are normally too hard for the Vic kids to get IMO

[Raw Toast]

Depends on the schools, the conference it is in - Division 1 schools are obviously better than Division 2, but there are some very good Division 2 programs - Do you know where he is?

Pendlebury was obviously very good given he was offered an AIS scholarship - and these are normally too hard for the Vic kids to get IMO

I'll find out BR - Likely to be a Division 1 School I think and they did pretty well in the NCAA comp last year from all reports. I might pm you the details as it sounds like you'd know of him.

[dog town]

For those who have not seen it here is an interesting article from the Adelaide paper today. Hudson gets a bit of praise from McLeod.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...-21544,00.html



ADELAIDE today walks into AFL trade talks in Melbourne with one hand tied behind its back.

But Crows football operations manager John Reid says his club will not use the other to bang on a table simply to make a point.

Adelaide has two deals forced upon it by ruckmen Ben Hudson and John Meesen, who have nominated their new clubs.

Hudson, 28, is aligned to the Western Bulldogs, who have promised him a three-year contract while Adelaide put up no more than two seasons.

As a top-10 finisher in Adelaide's best-and-fairest count on Friday night, Hudson should merit a second-round draft pick - the price the Bulldogs paid West Coast for key forward Andrew McDougall last year.

But the Bulldogs also know they can wait until December's pre-season draft - in which they have the No. 4 pick - to claim Hudson without compensation as an uncontracted player.

Meesen, 21, has chosen Melbourne as his new club in a much-expected return to Victoria after two seasons at West Lakes.

As a first-round draft pick (at No. 8) two years ago, Meesen is worth Melbourne's second-round pick in next month's national draft - the No. 16 call.

But, like the Bulldogs with Hudson, the Demons know they can call Meesen with their No. 3 pick in the pre-season draft. This would leave Adelaide with nothing, making it vital for the Crows to seal any deal with the Bulldogs and Melbourne this week.

"We're not holding the cards," admitted Reid last night. "But, at the same time, we're not going to be stupid - that will not prove anything at all.

"We'll negotiate as best as we can. And we won't be bluffing right up to the last day (on Friday with a 1.30pm deadline)."

Adelaide has been negotiating with the Western Bulldogs for some time. Reid describes these talks as promising to "lead to some deal".

But Melbourne's initial offers for Meesen, says Reid, "require more thought from us and more consideration from them".

Adelaide today will enter trade talks with interest for a key forward and quick midfielder. Brisbane ruckman Cameron Wood, who is contracted to the Lions next season, still could emerge as a target for the Crows.

Port Adelaide is unlikely to be busy, but has key forward Damon White drawing interest.

The headline act of trade week will be Carlton's negotiations for West Coast premiership captain Chris Judd while not losing its No. 1 draft pick for the 24-year-old Brownlow Medallist.

Hudson's departure from Adelaide - which is known to involve far more than just the length of his contract with the Crows - loomed large over the club's best-and-fairest count.

He did not attend the dinner at the Adelaide Convention Centre where Andrew McLeod won his third Malcolm Blight Medal. McLeod told his club's members Hudson's exit was "disheartening" and left the Crows' list weakened.

"Ben's been good for us, especially when Rhett (Biglands) went down (with a serious knee injury last year)," McLeod said. "He carried the ruck this year and it's going to be tough to fill his shoes.

"It's not just the ruck contest that stands out, it's (Hudson's) second efforts too. He was up there in the league for hard-ball gets and that's something that's a bonus when you have a ruckman of his calibre.

"'Meese' only played two games, but he's a quality young person and to lose quality people like he and Ben is a bit disheartening for you. Hopefully, we can pick some other players up."

[LostDoggy]

For those who have not seen it here is an interesting article from the Adelaide paper today. Hudson gets a bit of praise from McLeod.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...-21544,00.html


As a top-10 finisher in Adelaide's best-and-fairest count on Friday night, Hudson should merit a second-round draft pick - the price the Bulldogs paid West Coast for key forward Andrew McDougall last year.



I thought we traded McDougall for a swap of our 3rd round pick and a swap of our second, which we then gave to Brisbane for Aker? Either way, it's good to know that it's leading to some sort of a trade, the hard ball get's are a real plus.

[Dry Rot]

Good to see that we appear to be negotiating in good faith.

Can't hurt for our future trading NB if any of SA lads want to return home.

Dees/Meesen is a tricky one - dunno he's worth a low second rounder.

[Dry Rot]

I thought we traded McDougall for a swap of our 3rd round pick and a swap of our second, which we then gave to Brisbane for Aker? Either way, it's good to know that it's leading to some sort of a trade, the hard ball get's are a real plus.

Adelaide newspapers aren't known for their research or accuracy, methinks.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Obviously a 2nd round draft pick would be fair, but as their football operations manager said - we hold the cards, and they (Adelaide) won't be holidng out until the last few minutes. Perhaps if Eade plays it smart, we could get Hudson for a third round? Maybe adding Power to that? Or - perhaps a 2nd round for their 3rd round and Hudson?

For mine, I think Eade will be trying to get us the best deal possible - but still give The Crows something decent in return.

IMO the deal will favour us, somehow.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Obviously a 2nd round draft pick would be fair, but as their football operations manager said - we hold the cards, and they (Adelaide) won't be holidng out until the last few minutes. Perhaps if Eade plays it smart, we could get Hudson for a third round? Maybe adding Power to that? Or - perhaps a 2nd round for their 3rd round and Hudson?

For mine, I think Eade will be trying to get us the best deal possible - but still give The Crows something decent in return.

IMO the deal will favour us, somehow.

The problem with pick 38 for Hudson is that it would stuff us up with Callan.

Geelong have picks 17, 34 & 50 and are likely to only use 3 picks. Our 4th round pick is 54 and worthless to them.

If we gave the Crows 22 & 38 for Hudson & 27 we could then offer 27 for Callan & pick 34. We get both for pick 22 and a slight upgrade on our 3rd rounder (38 to 34).

[Bulldog Revolution]

The problem with pick 38 for Hudson is that it would stuff us up with Callan.

Geelong have picks 17, 34 & 50 and are likely to only use 3 picks. Our 4th round pick is 54 and worthless to them.

If we gave the Crows 22 & 38 for Hudson & 27 we could then offer 27 for Callan & pick 34. We get both for pick 22 and a slight upgrade on our 3rd rounder (38 to 34).

What makes you think they will only use 3?

Do they have to use the pick if they trade for it?

I see Callan being worth a 4th/5th rounder and I think 22 is a bit steep for Hudson - I value picks more highly than many others though.

[Topdog]

I'm with you on that one BR.

I expect us to be fairly heavily involved this week so I can see us getting another 3rd rounder.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What makes you think they will only use 3?

Do they have to use the pick if they trade for it?

I see Callan being worth a 4th/5th rounder and I think 22 is a bit steep for Hudson - I value picks more highly than many others though.

They've got no retirements, no duds and two rookies - Davenport and Lonergan - who they want to elevate. I can't see them getting rid of six players.

[MrMahatma]

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22553887%255E19742,00.html
http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/kangaroos-chase-midfielder-selwood/2007/10/08/1191695823242.html

Judging by those, Jordie might be out the door.

[GVGjr]

These reports must have a lot of speculation in it. McMahon for a 2nd round pick just doesn't seem right.
I'm not sure what Port is asking for White but if Eade is keen to snare him as he seems to be wouldn't a swap for McMahon be cleaner? I would have thought that McMahon for Ports 1st round selection would be a fair and reasonable trade as well.

[Bulldog Revolution]

These reports must have a lot of speculation in it. McMahon for a 2nd round pick just doesn't seem right.
I'm not sure what Port is asking for White but if Eade is keen to snare him as he seems to be wouldn't a swap for McMahon be cleaner? I would have thought that McMahon for Ports 1st round selection would be a fair and reasonable trade as well.

Could it be White and their 2nd for McMahon?

And we send their second to Adelaide for Hudson?

[Bulldog Revolution]

They've got no retirements, no duds and two rookies - Davenport and Lonergan - who they want to elevate. I can't see them getting rid of six players.

It looks like Tenace is the one they might deal to give them some room

Plus Gardner, Playfair, King and Callan could all exit

[GVGjr]

Could it be White and their 2nd for McMahon?

And we send their second to Adelaide for Hudson?

I think Port are asking the world for White at the moment so they would probably wouldn't consider that.

I'd prefer not to lose McMahon but a 2nd rounder, particularly the Powers pick, would not be a good enough return. I did hear on the radio that the Tigers have flagged some interest in McMahon. They have picks 18 and 19 so they could come into play.

[LostDoggy]

I don't understand the interest in Damon White. I understand we need tall forwards but nothing I've seen of him tells me he is quality. If Eade think he is ok then I'll support him but we are only likely to get screwed on picks or players here.

[GVGjr]

I don't understand the interest in Damon White. I understand we need tall forwards but nothing I've seen of him tells me he is quality. If Eade think he is ok then I'll support him but we are only likely to get screwed on picks or players here.

I have to agree that White does not fulfil me with confidence. I just hope we are not considering a swap of 1st round draft selections as part of a bigger deal to land him.

[The Coon Dog]

Is this possible scenario?

McMahon & pick 22 > Port Adelaide
White & pick 16 > WB

[Templeton31]

Is this possible scenario?

McMahon & pick 22 > Port Adelaide
White & pick 16 > WB

I would've thought Port would seem themselves as losers in that one, unless they are way keener on Jordie than they are letting on.

I would've thought that if Port are valuing White that highly surely we would be better off going for Gardner or Playfair. Similar level of experience and potential but wont cost us as much. I guess White is more of a size that you can kick long to him and land it on his head whereas PLayfair is more a lead-up fwd. Not sure about Gardiner (well actually I think he is a dud ;)).

[Bulldog Revolution]

Is this possible scenario?

McMahon & pick 22 > Port Adelaide
White & pick 16 > WB

That gives us another pick that we would want, but what would we give Adelaide for Hudson?

If we dont want to give them 22 we aren't gonna give them 16

[The Coon Dog]

That gives us another pick that we would want, but what would we give Adelaide for Hudson?

If we dont want to give them 22 we aren't gonna give them 16
I wouldn't imagine this type of deal would impact on the Hudson trade. I still think that will end up being a 3rd round selection.

[Go_Dogs]

The Advertiser today reported that Port has shown little interest in Jordan. Port I don't think will be too active so I don't think White-McMahon trade will happen.

As far as the Hudson trade, I hope at the most, we give up a 3rd round selection. If Adelaide want to play silly buggers and not get the deal done, stuff them, take him in the PSD.

[bornadog]

The Advertiser today reported that Port has shown little interest in Jordan. Port I don't think will be too active so I don't think White-McMahon trade will happen.

As far as the Hudson trade, I hope at the most, we give up a 3rd round selection. If Adelaide want to play silly buggers and not get the deal done, stuff them, take him in the PSD.

I really don't want to trade McMahon, hopefully he is fully committed to staying in Victoria. Agree on Hudson, we have the upper hand.

[southerncross]

I really don't want to trade McMahon, hopefully he is fully committed to staying in Victoria. Agree on Hudson, we have the upper hand.

The fact that we haven't committed to him yet tells me that he is wanting to head home. We just need to get the best deal for him now and try to facilitate it for him.
I'm hoping we get a fair deal on this and I'm a little surprised that the Crows don't appear to be interested.

[LostDoggy]

Similar level of experience and potential but wont cost us as much. I guess White is more of a size that you can kick long to him and land it on his head whereas PLayfair is more a lead-up fwd. Not sure about Gardiner (well actually I think he is a dud ;)).

There is a reason they won't cost us much:o . Seriously Playfair and Gardiner have Bartlett, Harrison, K.Hunter, Daniel Bandy written all over them. Or to put is simply, duds.;)

[Dry Rot]

The fact that we haven't committed to him yet tells me that he is wanting to head home. .

Good point. Is it fair to say that anyone who is uncontracted well into trade week is a good chance of leaving?

If so, where does that leave Hahn?

And is there anyone else who is uncontracted now?

[GVGjr]

Good point. Is it fair to say that anyone who is uncontracted well into trade week is a good chance of leaving?

If so, where does that leave Hahn?

And is there anyone else who is uncontracted now?

I don't think it is as cut and dry as that. Players rarely leave in this day and age for a few thousand albeit there would be some exceptions.

My take (speculation) on this is:
Hahn and the club are close to a deal with both parties playing a bit of hard ball over the dollars but they will sort it out. Hahn is a support player and has more value with us that he does out in the market but his manager just hasn't worked that out yet. If the Lions for example want to offer the out of form Sherman as a swap we should consider it.

McMahon is slightly out of favour with the coach plus he is undecided about if he should stay with us or head back to SA. He has some market value and we have needs in other areas. If he can secure us a late first round selection or a decent tall then I think he will be moved on.

[LostDoggy]

Damn, i want Jordy to stay....
what do you think the chances are of Farren Ray leaving?

[GVGjr]

Damn, i want Jordy to stay....
what do you think the chances are of Farren Ray leaving?

McMahon is 50/50 to stay I think. I don't believe that Ray will be leaving us.

[southerncross]

Various trade comments

Trade talk
10 October 2007 Herald Sun


DONE DEALS:

DEFENDER Martin Mattner (Adelaide) to Sydney for the Crows' second-round draft pick (No. 28).
Ruckman Ben Hudson (Adelaide) to the Western Bulldogs with draft pick in the trade yet to be confirmed.
YOUR CLUB:
ADELAIDE: The Crows are improving their draft position by trading Hudson (Dogs) and Mattner (Swans). Mattner deal means Adelaide holds picks 10, 27 and 28 in first two rounds.
BRISBANE LIONS: May struggle to stop Rhan Hooper from going to Richmond.
CARLTON: Remains confident it will seal the Judd deal.
COLLINGWOOD: Still on the trail of Brisbane's Cameron Wood, its pick No. 14 coming into the equation.
ESSENDON: Trying to find a new home for Kepler Bradley, but little interest in veteran Mark Johnson.
FREMANTLE: Has spoken to the Bombers about Bradley, but the Dockers remain adamant they want to keep their first and second-round picks (Nos. 7 and 24).
GEELONG: Ruckman Mark Blake will stay with the Cats. Tim Callan, who won Geelong's best-and-fairest in its VFL side, is headed to the Whitten Oval for the Bulldogs' last pick.
HAWTHORN: Clubs are showing interest in Tim Boyle, but Hawks will only trade if exceptional deal is offered.
KANGAROOS: The Roos would like Essendon's Kepler Bradley, but don't believe they could offer enough to get him.
MELBOURNE: Travis Johnstone is shortening his overseas holiday. His future is being hotly discussed.
PORT ADELAIDE: Still willing to talk about forward Damon White and midfielder Brad Symes.
RICHMOND: Rumours persist the Tigers are making a play for Judd.
ST KILDA: Keen on Sydney's Adam Schneider.
SYDNEY: Jude Bolton, Amon Buchanan and Adam Schneider could be for sale. Mattner will be handy running out of defence alongside Tadhg Kennelly and Nick Malceski.
WEST COAST: Chris Judd jets into Melbourne today.
WESTERN BULLDOGS: Hudson is a huge pick-up; sixth in the Crows' best-and-fairest and will be the Dogs' No. 1 ruckman. Callan will cross from the Cats. Jordan McMahon's future clouded.

[southerncross]

From the Age

ADELAIDE Martin Mattner to Sydney for pick 28 will be the first deal of trade week. Ruckman John Meesen likely to go to Melbourne for a third-round draft pick. Ruckman Ben Hudson likely to go to the Western Bulldogs for a second-round draft pick.
BRISBANE LIONS Believed to be interested in Melbourne's Travis Johnstone. A clutch of clubs want contracted young ruckman Cameron Wood. Collingwood, with pick 14, seeming well-placed for a trade as Richmond and St Kilda, with similar interest, have earlier first-round picks that might be too high a price to pay. Richard Hadley is being pursued by Carlton.
CARLTON Chris Judd. Probably for a combination of picks 3 and 20 and a player such as Josh Kennedy. Some interest in Brisbane's Richard Hadley, who is out of contract.
COLLINGWOOD Likely to land Cam Wood from Brisbane for pick 14.
ESSENDON A clutch of clubs have sought pacy Ricky Dyson, with Fremantle chief among them. Essendon still undecided if it will trade him. Mark Johnson linked to Freo. Little to no interest in Kepler Bradley.
FREMANTLE Several clubs seeking versatile forward Ryan Murphy. Dockers like Mark Johnson at the right price and fellow Bomber Ricky Dyson.
GEELONG Tight salary-cap pressure. Wants to keep Mark Blake and moved to assure Brent Prismall. Tim Callan to the Bulldogs for very late draft pick. Charlie Gardiner and Henry Playfair available but interest tepid at the moment.
HAWTHORN Tim Boyle possibly involved after significant interest from range of clubs.
KANGAROOS Chasing uncontracted Troy Selwood but Brisbane as yet uninterested. Keen on Bulldog Sam Power, probably for about a third-round pick. Leigh Brown and Brad Moran available but few takers.
MELBOURNE Wants John Meesen from Adelaide. Offered Travis Johnstone around. Brad Miller being chased by Sydney but Melbourne says it wants to keep him.
PORT ADELAIDERetains an interest in Bulldog Jordan McMahon but is doubtful of his keenness to leave Melbourne. Denied any interest in Essendon's Mark Johnson.
RICHMONDWants Mitch Morton from West Coast and quick Bulldog midfielder Jordan McMahon.
ST KILDA Mark Blake committed to stay at Geelong, so now likely interest in Steven King to get another ruckman to Moorabbin.
SYDNEY Will get Martin Mattner from Adelaide and give up second-round draft pick. Some interest in Travis Johnstone from Melbourne and Sam Power from the Bulldogs. Has sought Brad Miller from Melbourne.
WEST COAST Chris Judd to Carlton seems likely as soon as today. Probably involving picks 3, 20 and a player such as Josh Kennedy. Mitch Morton to Tigers.
WESTERN BULLDOGS Ben Hudson from Adelaide likely for a second-round draft pick. Tim Callan from Geelong will be done for a draft pick Geelong is not likely to even use. Will find new homes for Jordan McMahon and probably Sam Power. Interest in Port's Damon White.

[LostDoggy]

Tim Boyle. Prefer him to Damon White. Any chance at a good price?

[LostDoggy]

Tim Boyle. Prefer him to Damon White. Any chance at a good price?

To be honest, i don't know much about White so i can't compare Boyle and him. But i'd hate to give up anything more then our 3rd rounder for Boyle. He was nearly delisted at the end of last year and he has only been saved due to Dixon, Franklin, Roughead taking the 3 best defenders, leaving him with the 4th best tall defender. And even still his last 6-7 games of the season sucked badly. Even McDougall flogged him when the Hawks had about 1000 inside 50's against us.

[Bulldog Revolution]

IMO Phase 1 of our trading is complete

We've added a starting ruckman (Hudson) and a tagging option (Callan)

If we dont do anything else I'll be satisfield with what was achieved

[LostDoggy]

Given the 'no names' that Clayton picked up last season is there a chance he will do the same this season and forego a number of mid range picks knowing he will get them anyway with late picks?

[bornadog]

IMO Phase 1 of our trading is complete

We've added a starting ruckman (Hudson) and a tagging option (Callan)

If we dont do anything else I'll be satisfield with what was achieved

What would you do about the fwd line next year?

[Bulldog Revolution]

What would you do about the fwd line next year?

Quick fixes rarely work

Draft some kids with potential to be key forwards, consider an experience on in the pre-season draft

Persist with Tiller, Williams, Everitt, Minson and Skipper

We've got plenty of smaller options with Murphy, Hahn, Johnno, Harbrow, Aka, Higgins etc

[Bulldog Revolution]

http://afl.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=52355

Hudson close to signing
4:25 PM Wed 10 October, 2007 | Back

By Jennifer Witham

for westernbulldogs.com.au

News
THE Bulldogs look set to welcome Ben Hudson and Tim Callan to Whitten Oval, with both Adelaide and Geelong expected to reach agreements with the club by the end of the week.

While the former Crow is closer to signing than the Cats' VFL best-and-fairest winner, recruiting manager Scott Clayton said the Dogs are confident both will be traded to the club by Friday's 2pm deadline.

"Hudson we've agreed to, in principle, but every scenario hasn't been documented yet," Clayton said.

"(Callan) will be end of the week. We're very confident that we should be able to deliver that.

"That's all the news we have, basically."

He said the Dogs are continuing to field enquiries about both Jordan McMahon and Sam Power, but are yet to consider any potential offers.

"Nothing is happening there, at this point in time. There has been some interest, so we're just evaluating the situation," he said.

He also said the club was "not doing anything at the moment" about acquiring Port Adelaide's Damon White, but admitted the Dogs are looking into some other names currently on the trade table.

"There probably are (other players), but none for public consumption at the moment."

[Dogs 24/7]

SEN reported that the Hawks Mark Williams is on offer.Hes not the power forward that Eade has talked about but I think he would be better for us than Damon White.What does everyone else think ?

[LostDoggy]

I dont see it in White......
apparently Dogs made an $800,000 offer for Fev, but no signs he's leaving Carlton....and i think he'd want more

[dog town]

Mark Williams is a bloody good player but if we picked him up the negative reaction amongst supporters would be immense IMO.

Interesting that we are stil looking into other players at the moment.

[LostDoggy]

Who do you think we'd be looking into? I can imagine they're aaall tall, and aaall old :S that seems to be the track we're heading down this draft. Dont know what good it'll do our future, though

[LostDoggy]

McMahon had cut his holiday short, going to a fitness check in Adelaide.....thats according to good ol Mumza, she just saw it on the news, so dont blame me if thats not the story, hah ;) Looks more and more likely he's going.....but surely McMahon would be at higher value than Hudson.....what would happen with the trade if bot players were involved?

[The Underdog]

As an aside, I love the bulldust of trade week. For example atm the Australian website says that the Judd deal is done and Kennedy has agreed to go to Perth. Ninemsn says that Kennedy doesn't want to go and will sleep on it but is totally reluctant. I'd love to be a club insider at this time of year. You could have a ball. Some tool on SEN before was complaining about trade week saying that nobody enjoys it, well i do, it's great fun :)

[LostDoggy]

It's quite an entertaining week in general, but i stress waaay too much. Im nto really one for change, i always seem to think change is for the worse! I have to learn not to do that...
apparently Bulldogs were interested in Kennedy according to my Carlton supporting friend?

[Topdog]

As an aside, I love the bulldust of trade week. For example atm the Australian website says that the Judd deal is done and Kennedy has agreed to go to Perth. Ninemsn says that Kennedy doesn't want to go and will sleep on it but is totally reluctant. I'd love to be a club insider at this time of year. You could have a ball. Some tool on SEN before was complaining about trade week saying that nobody enjoys it, well i do, it's great fun :)

I think it's brilliant aswell. Lots of people with no idea making up crap.

Listening to SEN is great as well. Trade ideas from the brilliant ppl who ring up

Mark Blake for pick 3 and Kennedy
Brennan for Milne and X. Clarke.

You can't make up comedy like that.

[mjp]

well i do, it's great fun :)

I will be a stick in the mud. Imagine being the family of someone like Josh Kennedy right now - or Josh Kennedy himself. It would not be nice.

I think the trade window should be either a lot shorter (2-days....you cant tell me that the clubs haven't been discussing this stuff before 9:30am Monday, either directly or via the various player agents), or a lot, lot longer where the focus on the whole back and forth flesh trading would be diluted.

[BulldogBelle]

I will be a stick in the mud. Imagine being the family of someone like Josh Kennedy right now - or Josh Kennedy himself. It would not be nice.

There was a report on Channel 7 this evening that Kennedy wanted to think about it overnight - such a big decision at Carlton he is a walk up in the 22 but I guess at the Eagles he will probably have to go through the WAFL ranks. Doesn't look like he is in a hurry to go 'back home'.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not an easy decision to make; has he found a new girlfriend in Victoria? New friends, bought a place, secured a 'living' of sorts as he would of thought he'd be wanted for the long haul?

Lot to think about.

You wouldn't be keen on staying at a place where they want to give you the flick to get somebody else, though. Might as well go back home, to your old friends, your family and a better club (on field, anyway).

Then again as said above, life as a footballer will be tougher at WC. Hansen, Lynch, Staker and a few others to compete with.

It'll be interesting; I reckon he'll go.

[bornadog]

There was a report on Channel 7 this evening that Kennedy wanted to think about it overnight - such a big decision at Carlton he is a walk up in the 22 but I guess at the Eagles he will probably have to go through the WAFL ranks. Doesn't look like he is in a hurry to go 'back home'.

Its not even home for him. He comes from Geraldon, Perth may as well be Sydney or Melbourne. I think he prefers Melbourne but Carlton don't want him so now he feels he has to go.

[Dry Rot]

Anyone else slightly concerned that there's one and a half days left and Hahn hasn't re-signed?

[The Coon Dog]

Anyone else slightly concerned that there's one and a half days left and Hahn hasn't re-signed?

Not quite, would be if he decides not to sign & nominates for the PSD.

[GVGjr]

Anyone else slightly concerned that there's one and a half days left and Hahn hasn't re-signed?

Perhaps he could be part of the Brennan trade?

[LostDoggy]

And if he is I will convulse.

Of the entire list, I rate Hahn in the first six. He is the only hard at it, big bodied player in the side and of far greater currency than Brennan

[The Underdog]

I will be a stick in the mud. Imagine being the family of someone like Josh Kennedy right now - or Josh Kennedy himself. It would not be nice.

I think the trade window should be either a lot shorter (2-days....you cant tell me that the clubs haven't been discussing this stuff before 9:30am Monday, either directly or via the various player agents), or a lot, lot longer where the focus on the whole back and forth flesh trading would be diluted.

I understand the emotional ties and that these are real people etc etc. I know that for kids like Kennedy it's heartbreaking. You get drafted, told your a key part of the future, work hard, believe in the team and all that and then all of a sudden you're the guy holding up the biggest trade in 10 years and your team doesn't love you anymore, and you're moving across the country.
I was more referring to the crap that goes on around it, the rumours in the papers and the outlandish suggestions. It's the only week of the year that I buy the Hun and as Topdog said SEN is hilarious. The scary thing is a guy like Ian Cohen (? think that's his name) is on there talking about all of this and clearly has no idea of who has what draft pick etc. Do some research for christs sake!
On the upside Kennedy has a job next year earning 6 figures and in 5 years time or when his career is over he can always move back to Melbourne.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I will be a stick in the mud. Imagine being the family of someone like Josh Kennedy right now - or Josh Kennedy himself. It would not be nice.

I think the trade window should be either a lot shorter (2-days....you cant tell me that the clubs haven't been discussing this stuff before 9:30am Monday, either directly or via the various player agents), or a lot, lot longer where the focus on the whole back and forth flesh trading would be diluted.

I feel really sorry for the kid Kennedy, hes upped and moved his life 2 years a go and probably dedicated most of his waking hours since to trying to be the best footballer he can be the Carlton footclub.

Judd then announces he has chosen Carlton. Kennedy then has to deal with a week prior to the trade period of innuendo that he will be the one traded, and then the circus media performance that is trade week.

And quite frankly I would not want to be traded to the Eagles - they clearly have some fabulous footballers but some real problems.

Its about now it would be good as a third club to swoop in and take Kennedy and send a pick to Perth.

[Dry Rot]

Hypothetical. Let's say we have picks 5 and 18. We miss out on Brennan. Our #22 has gone to the Crows.

Do we hang onto the picks and draft young talent, knowing that we've no progress whatsoever with our dwarf forwardline? And use Skipper and Tiller?

Or as a last resort we get into dealing for White, Boyle, Schultz, Playfair etc style dodgy talls?

[Bulldog Revolution]

Hypothetical. Let's say we have picks 5 and 18. We miss out on Brennan. Our #22 has gone to the Crows.

Do we hang onto the picks and draft young talent, knowing that we've no progress whatsoever with our dwarf forwardline? And use Skipper and Tiller?

Or as a last resort we get into dealing for White, Boyle, Schultz, Playfair etc style dodgy talls?

Draft kids and we can get a Playfair or someone like him etc in the preseason draft

Otherwise we will be looking back in 3 years time like we did when we traded for Rawlings, Veale, Morgan, Street and Koops

Kids take time, but good ones come on quick

We may have no forward line, but we just cant keep looking for quick fixes for it

[Dogs 24/7]

And if he is I will convulse.

Of the entire list, I rate Hahn in the first six. He is the only hard at it, big bodied player in the side and of far greater currency than Brennan

I dont rate him that highly but he is important to the team on a few levels.I dont want to lose him.

[Topdog]

Draft kids and we can get a Playfair or someone like him etc in the preseason draft

Otherwise we will be looking back in 3 years time like we did when we traded for Rawlings, Veale, Morgan, Street and Koops

Kids take time, but good ones come on quick

We may have no forward line, but we just cant keep looking for quick fixes for it

Spot on BR. Seeing those picks that we lost that year almost gave me a heart attack earlier.

[Raw Toast]

Only one day to go in trade week but there's a chance we're going to be waiting with both anticipation and fear for the psd.

My best case scenario is as follows:

1) Both McMahon and Power stay with us - obviously McMahon is more of a priority than Power, but I also think Power still offers something to us as a tagger/utility who still has considerable potential. If someone's willing to pay over the odds for Power (ie second-round pick) then I'd take it, and we probably have to take the Roos 3rd round anyway but I'm still hoping we can convince both McMahon and Power to stay.

2) This means we use pick 22 to get both Hudson and Callan as I've outlined elsewhere (basically swap second round picks with the Cats and then on-trade it to the Crows. I know the Crows wanted pick 29 or lower for Hudson but the media reports of the deal is that they will receive an unspecified second round pick, and I think this possibility is why we haven't done the Callan deal yet.) One pick for two sunds like a good deal to me.

3) We get Brennan in the pre-season draft. Seems like he's pretty keen to live Brisbane and if he opts for the psd we hold the advantage over Essendon. Of course the Tigers or Blues might go for him but hopefully they've got other players (who are not ours!) on their minds. Perhaps this is unfair on Brisbane, but we can't otherwise give them a decent pick (that is not our pick 5) without otherwise trading McMahon which I'm still really hoping to avoid.

This is all a bit pie in the sky stuff but the dream is that we get Brennan without having to give up anything and so still keep McMahon (and Power as well). The nightmare as B2B has noted, is that McMahon threatens to go in the psd which either means we accept much less than he is worth or get nothing for him. Doesn't sound to me, however, that he will be such a prick (to borrow Ernie's phrase).

If we get Hudson, Callan, Brennan and a third round pick, for McMahon and our second round pick (and possibly our last pick as well) then we've probably improved our list but not as much as in my wishful scenario.

[GVGjr]

McMahon picks Tigers over Port (http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/mcmahon-picks-tigers-over-port/2007/10/11/1191696082792.html)

RICHMOND last night put Jordan McMahon into a yellow and black jumper, with the Western Bulldog defender choosing the Tigers over Port Adelaide for a three-year deal worth almost $1 million.

McMahon, 24, informed the Tigers of his decision in the early evening after earlier visiting Port in his home state.

His decision will give the Dogs Richmond's priority pick, selection 18, which means that the Tigers have only one selection,No. 2, inside the first 30. Pick 19 was exchanged with selection 30 to acquire Mitch Morton from West Coast.

The Tigers got McMahon but missed on Brisbane Lion Rhan Hooper, who agreed late yesterday to sign a new deal with the Lions.

For the Queenslanders, a day that began with the threat of an exodus appeared to end in face-saving relief, with Hooper's decision to stay matched by Josh Drummond and Troy Selwood. With the Tigers circling around Hooper in the hope of enticing him into the pre-season draft, the Lions had Carlton trying to lure Drummond in the same fashion, the Kangaroos chasing a disgruntled Selwood, Essendon wooing Jared Brennan with a three-year offer and Richard Hadley also wanting out.

The Blues brought Drummond, a 24-year-old Sunshine Coaster, to Melbourne late yesterday morning and offered him a three-year deal. Despite the temptation of playing alongside new Blueboy Chris Judd, he flew home and agreed to a three-year contract with the Lions.

After being told that a new contract offer would not be available until next week, with the trade window closed, Selwood indicated to the Kangaroos early yesterday that he was keen to join them. The Lions, however, refused to deal with the Roos and assured him that an improved offer was on its way.

Hadley will be leaving, however, in all likelihood to Carlton for a low-level pick. Brennan's future was less certain. The enigmatic 23-year-old is effectively estranged from the club and the Dons are keen to winkle him out of Brisbane for nothing through the pre-season draft.

Collingwood's Rhyce Shaw thought he was heading to Brisbane on Wednesday night when he agreed to join the Lions as part of the three-way exchange involving Travis Johnstone and Cameron Wood. To do so, though, he wanted an improvement on his two-year deal with Collingwood. Brisbane declined to improve his terms and the shift collapsed. He still could leave the Magpies, who offered the 25-year-old running defender to Sydney yesterday without success and later, with ruckman Guy Richards, to St Kilda for the Saints' second-round pick at 26.

Eventually, Wood went to Collingwood for selection 14 alone, with the Lions on-trading the pick to Melbourne for Travis Johnstone, who agreed to a three-year deal with the Lions. It is believed that next season, Melbourne will pay half of the $400,000 he was contracted to it for in 2008.

St Kilda may not have got the ruckman it desired but added run to its side by trading pick 26 to Sydney for premiership players Adam Schneider and Sean Dempster. With the pick returning the Swans to the second-round of the draft, they then struck a deal for Geelong forward Henry Playfair for a third-round selection, pick 44.

Kangaroo Brad Moran seems destined for Adelaide. The 21-year-old agreed to join the Crows yesterday for a two-year contract, subject to a trade being struck.

Fremantle put a three-year offer to Essendon wingman Ricky Dyson but had not settled on the terms of a trade with the Dons last night. The Dockers also were considering the option of taking Kepler Bradley from Windy Hill, if not for a late pick, then through the pre-season draft.

It is believed that Essendon wants Fremantle's second-round pick 24 for Dyson for the deal to proceed. The Dockers have in mind a fourth-round pick for the 22-year-old or the option of getting Dyson and Bradley in exchange for pick 40.

Eventually, Wood went to Collingwood for selection 14 alone, with the Lions on-trading the pick to Melbourne for Travis Johnstone, who agreed to a three-year deal with the Lions. It is believed that next season, Melbourne will pay half of the $400,000 he was contracted to it for in 2008.

St Kilda may not have got the ruckman it desired but added run to its side by trading pick 26 to Sydney for premiership players Adam Schneider and Sean Dempster. With the pick returning the Swans to the second-round of the draft, they then struck a deal for Geelong forward Henry Playfair for a third-round selection, pick 44.

Kangaroo Brad Moran seems destined for Adelaide. The 21-year-old agreed to join the Crows yesterday for a two-year contract, subject to a trade being struck.

Fremantle put a three-year offer to Essendon wingman Ricky Dyson but had not settled on the terms of a trade with the Dons last night. The Dockers also were considering the option of taking Kepler Bradley from Windy Hill, if not for a late pick, then through the pre-season draft.

It is believed that Essendon wants Fremantle's second-round pick 24 for Dyson for the deal to proceed. The Dockers have in mind a fourth-round pick for the 22-year-old or the option of getting Dyson and Bradley in exchange for pick 40.

[The Underdog]

Can I just say how happy I am that it looks as though Sydney are trading for Henry Playfair, just to stop us doing anything really silly

[The Underdog]

Well, we've got a ruckman and 5 picks in the top 50 plus a spot in the PSD if Hughes is re-rookied and not promoted. Obviously Harbrow will be promoted to the senior list.
Could have been better (ie a power forward), but it could have been worse too (ie whatever the Swans thought they were doing).

[The Underdog]

I wonder if we are a chance in the PSD to secure another player with some senior experience?

I guess it depends who is available after final list lodgements.
Richmond were already talking about Jared Brennan at 1 past 2 so I think that ship won't make it to our port if he's in the PSD.
I can't think of anyone who has been delisted so far that is overly enticing.

[bornadog]

I wonder if we are a chance in the PSD to secure another player with some senior experience?

Is Brennan out of contract?

[The Underdog]

Is Brennan out of contract?

Yes but he'll never make it to pick 4. Greg Miller was already mentioning him at 1 past 2 in his press conference

[Scorlibo]

Brennan won't last to pick 4 in the pre season, but atleast one of Whitnall, Perrie and Watts will, meaning that we will surely pick one of them up - preferably Whitnall, experience - unlike Watts -, proven ability - unlike Watts - and he can kick straight - unlike Perrie. Definately worth giving one of them a run, I mean lets be realistic, we're not going to pick up any great young talent in the PSD.

[bulldogtragic]

Anyone seen much of Roury Kirkby this year, is he worth speculating on?

[LostDoggy]

Anyone seen much of Roury Kirkby this year, is he worth speculating on?

I think he was the player highly rated before a draft camp but bomded out big time and has been over looked ever since. He might have been on the Hawks or Tigers list for a season from memory. I read somewhere that he has been playing as a forward in SA but I doubt that we would look at him.

[Go_Dogs]

Anyone seen much of Roury Kirkby this year, is he worth speculating on?

I commented on Kirky perhaps 3 or 4 weeks ago. He played a terrific game in the first final for Glenelg, and was really instrumental in them winning that game. Led well, took marks, used the ball well and moved well.

The week after he was pretty quiet.

He had a reasonable year though by all accounts, and from what I've seen of him, I'd be prepared to take a punt on him.

[Scorlibo]

Love to get some lists of everyone's top 20 players for the doggies coming into this year's draft. Here's mine:

1-Kreuzer
2-Morton
3-Mcevoy
4-Cotchin
5-Henderson
6-Myers
7-Ebert
8-Grimes
9-Rance
10-Masten
11-Notte
12-Gourdis
13-Veszpremi
14-Rioli
15-Maric
16-Bellchambers
17-Collier
18-D. Simpson
19-Selwood
20-S.Simpson

[Dry Rot]

A lot of people reckon the top 3 pick themselves

1-Kreuzer
2-Morton
3-Cotchin

or something like that.

So the key question for us is who the Dees will go after?

[Scorlibo]

Yes, Melbourne's pick is crucial, with any luck they wont pick Ben Mcevoy after bolstering their ruck stocks with Meesen during tradeweek, leaving Ben to us - who I would say is the doggie's third priority (as may be seen two posts up), with their first two perhaps being Morton and Kreuzer who will almost definately go in the first three picks along with Cotchin.

[Dry Rot]

Anyone know/guess what the Demons' priorities are?

[Scorlibo]

The dees have been looking for a CHF to succeed Neitz, this year they gave Brad Miller a run with no great success, so Mcevoy would certainly be high on their priority list. If the doggies are also very keen on Mcevoy then it may well come down to the dees ability to resist the temptation of a gun midfielder.

It just might pan out as follows:

1 - CARLTON - M. Kreuzer
2 - RICHMOND - C. Morton
3 - WEST COAST - R. Palmer
4 - MELBOURNE - T. Cotchin
5 - BULLDOGS - B. Mcevoy

Carlton look just about sure to pick up Kreuzer. Richmond have hinted that they will opt for Cale Morton over Cotchin when they got Mitch Morton over from West Coast during trade week. West Coast will be apprehensive in taking the highly rated Cotchin, he has made it known that he really doesn't want to head West because he doesnt rate the off field activity over there, so instead West Coast may look to the next best midfielder to take Judd's spot - Palmer. This would leave the dees will the choice between Cotchin and Mcevoy.

If all this happens, then it would leave our beloved doggies with the exciting proposition of getting either Cotchin or Mcevoy. Just throwing the idea up.

[The Underdog]

The dees have been looking for a CHF to succeed Neitz, this year they gave Brad Miller a run with no great success, so Mcevoy would certainly be high on their priority list. If the doggies are also very keen on Mcevoy then it may well come down to the dees ability to resist the temptation of a gun midfielder.

It just might pan out as follows:

1 - CARLTON - M. Kreuzer
2 - RICHMOND - C. Morton
3 - WEST COAST - R. Palmer
4 - MELBOURNE - T. Cotchin
5 - BULLDOGS - B. Mcevoy

Carlton look just about sure to pick up Kreuzer. Richmond have hinted that they will opt for Cale Morton over Cotchin when they got Mitch Morton over from West Coast during trade week. West Coast will be apprehensive in taking the highly rated Cotchin, he has made it known that he really doesn't want to head West because he doesnt rate the off field activity over there, so instead West Coast may look to the next best midfielder to take Judd's spot - Palmer. This would leave the dees will the choice between Cotchin and Mcevoy.

If all this happens, then it would leave our beloved doggies with the exciting proposition of getting either Cotchin or Mcevoy. Just throwing the idea up.

I can't imagine West Coast being scared off by Cotchin not wanting to go west. They'll pick him if he's who they want. They'll pick the best player available regardless. Clubs will always take the chance that once a kid's in their system and settles in, makes friends etc that he'll stay 9 times out of 10. Even despite what happened with Judd this year.

[Scorlibo]

I don't think it's a question of whether he'll stay or not, more of whether he'll give it his all in an unwanted environment. West Coast will take that into account when considering him - also, Palmer is a WA boy adding further inscentive - just don't be surprised if they pass him up.

[The Underdog]

Does anyone know much about Rioli?
Anyone seen him play this year?

[Scorlibo]

havn't seen him play, but at the U18 champs he played div. 2 and was sixth for effective kicks and first for goal assists. In his final match of the champs he kicked 7 goals. Regarded as very quick and a good tackler.

[mjp]

I don't think it's a question of whether he'll stay or not, more of whether he'll give it his all in an unwanted environment. West Coast will take that into account when considering him - also, Palmer is a WA boy adding further inscentive - just don't be surprised if they pass him up.


No disrespect, but what a load of bull.

Look at their draft history - they take who they think is the best player every single year. You think that other interstate recruits dont tell West Coast not to pick them?

As for Cotchin 'not giving his all', again, do you expect people to take these sort of statements seriously?

[Go_Dogs]

No disrespect, but what a load of bull.

Look at their draft history - they take who they think is the best player every single year. You think that other interstate recruits dont tell West Coast not to pick them?

As for Cotchin 'not giving his all', again, do you expect people to take these sort of statements seriously?

Agreed. It's the nature of the business these days, and a lot of young kids, once they hit about 20, realise moving away from their home state was the best decision they ever made.

I don't think it effects anything, if you want to play AFL, you take what opportunity you are given and run with it. Otherwise your finished.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Is there really much difference between Cotchin and Palmer?

History shows us that despite how certain we all are that this kids better than that kid, we have absolutely no idea which kids will be tearing it up 5 years from now.

[mjp]

Cotchin can kick. Palmer cant.

That's the difference right there.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Cotchin can kick. Palmer cant.

That's the difference right there.

Call me crazy but I've always liked footballers who can kick

[Go_Dogs]

Call me crazy but I've always liked footballers who can kick

You so crazy.

Just kidding. The selection of Everitt last year, whose foot skills are superb, shows Clayton is also rating skill highly with his first selection. Higgins, Griffen, Cooney, Murph, McMahon, the majority all have great foot skills.

There are a lot of other aspects to football nowadays of course, but having good skills by foot is still the most important aspect just about when it comes down to selecting the best of the best players.

[mjp]

There are a lot of other aspects to football nowadays of course, but having good skills by foot is still the most important aspect just about when it comes down to selecting the best of the best players.

I was thinking about this point on the weekend - the best kick I have seen this year is Arrowsmith from the Cannons - the kid who won the medal in the GF. I wonder about him athletically, but he certainly has elite foot skills.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I was thinking about this point on the weekend - the best kick I have seen this year is Arrowsmith from the Cannons - the kid who won the medal in the GF. I wonder about him athletically, but he certainly has elite foot skills.

MJP, do you think that there is far too much emphasis these days placed on the athletic ability of possible draftees? It seems quite a few 'footballers first' miss out or are taken after the players with tremendous athletic ability. There's no doubting it helps, but I seem to think they look for it too much. If a player can find the football, deliver well, play accountable football and be able to run reasonably well (which really - most can) then what's the problem? I don't see why he should have to record blistering records or jump as high as the clouds.

It does however allow the rookie system to be utilised accordingly. Players like Rutten, Boyd & Morris among many others have been able to benefit from the system and become very good AFL Players.

[Go_Dogs]

I was thinking about this point on the weekend - the best kick I have seen this year is Arrowsmith from the Cannons - the kid who won the medal in the GF. I wonder about him athletically, but he certainly has elite foot skills.

He has certainly been called 'slow' in a lot of reports I've seen of him. But so were guys like Priddis, Boyd, Morris etc at one stage, they can all play AFL. He'll be an interesting one to watch for on draft day.

[mjp]

MJP, do you think that there is far too much emphasis these days placed on the athletic ability of possible draftees? It seems quite a few 'footballers first' miss out or are taken after the players with tremendous athletic ability. There's no doubting it helps, but I seem to think they look for it too much. If a player can find the football, deliver well, play accountable football and be able to run reasonably well (which really - most can) then what's the problem? I don't see why he should have to record blistering records or jump as high as the clouds.

It does however allow the rookie system to be utilised accordingly. Players like Rutten, Boyd & Morris among many others have been able to benefit from the system and become very good AFL Players.

Not really. I hear people say this a lot - particularly that Clayton drafts too many 'athletes'. The only clear athletic 'reach' I think he made was for Tom Williams - all of the rest of them were drafted based on the usual 'footy' based criteria, kicking skills, decision making etc. It is an easy thing for people to blame though. Funnily enough, everyone who makes the 'footballers, not athletes' statement loves the Williams pick!

In contrast to your comments, I think the rookie pool is the ideal place to put these 'athletic' type picks, and see if they can play footy, and not the place to put footballers who lack the required athletic ability to play top level footy. Get them in, coach them, let them play VFL reserves, then seniors in their two rookie years, then allow them to either be promoted to the list or dropped off as appropriate based on development.

[Mantis]

In contrast to your comments, I think the rookie pool is the ideal place to put these 'athletic' type picks, and see if they can play footy, and not the place to put footballers who lack the required athletic ability to play top level footy. Get them in, coach them, let them play VFL reserves, then seniors in their two rookie years, then allow them to either be promoted to the list or dropped off as appropriate based on development.

ie. Setanta & Aisake O'hAilpin of Carlton

[Mofra]

He has certainly been called 'slow' in a lot of reports I've seen of him. But so were guys like Priddis, Boyd, Morris etc at one stage, they can all play AFL. He'll be an interesting one to watch for on draft day.

Very interesting, especially taking into account Higgins is slow for his size. West is the slowest on our list (Street beats him in the 20m sprints!).

There will always be a place in the team for guys who can find the ball in traffic.

[LostDoggy]

That said, who is our fastest? Jordy WAS im quite sure, but who would be fastest now?
West is our slowest eh....well i dont think we're doing bad if he is our slowest player, West doesnt come across as slow or anything which would be a good sign.

[GVGjr]

Hargrave was highly rated over 20mtrs. Probably Lynch might be the quickest

[bornadog]

Hargrave was highly rated over 20mtrs. Probably Lynch might be the quickest

Morris, over 20 metres

[LostDoggy]

Brian harris is said to be in our top 2 or 3

[rapidshave]

Coons would have to be up there with his explosive pace off the mark.

[LostDoggy]

Coons would have to be up there with his explosive pace off the mark.
I don't think he was actually in our top 5.

[LostDoggy]

Brian harris is said to be in our top 2 or 3

Whaaat? Thats awesome, but very unexpected.
He can really surprise me sometimes.

[Bulldog Revolution]

My money would be on Lynch but we do have to remember that Jesse Wells was reportedly our quickest over 20 or 30 at one stage also

[Go_Dogs]

Streeter broke 3 seconds too, apparently. It would be interesting to get a hold of a list of the actual times.

[Twodogs]

Streeter broke 3 seconds too, apparently. It would be interesting to get a hold of a list of the actual times.



That's 'cos he only has to take one step and he's at the finish line.

[LostDoggy]

Roy and HG always talk about players being quick over 1 metre. :)

Its about the mind and reading the play, you can be quick but if your brain is slow in telling you legs to go then being quick over 20m is meaningless.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Roy and HG always talk about players being quick over 1 metre. :)

Its about the mind and reading the play, you can be quick but if your brain is slow in telling you legs to go then being quick over 20m is meaningless.

Greg Williams and Scott West always seem to get to the right spots quicker than most

[Dry Rot]

Been quite a few delistings lately eg Freo cut 5 including Hadrill and Dunn. Dunno which players will nominate for the ND or PSD - any we should really look at?

Dunn, Bradley and Watts are names we know, but you wonder why they were cut.

[The Underdog]

Been quite a few delistings lately eg Freo cut 5 including Hadrill and Dunn. Dunno which players will nominate for the ND or PSD - any we should really look at?

Dunn, Bradley and Watts are names we know, but you wonder why they were cut.

I'm interested in why Clayton Collard was cut after 1 year. Freo couldn't talk him up enough after last year's draft and now he's gone, although they want to rookie him. I'd imagine we'll probably pick up at least 1 experienced player whether it be in the PSD or the back end of the Draft.

[dog town]

Been quite a few delistings lately eg Freo cut 5 including Hadrill and Dunn. Dunno which players will nominate for the ND or PSD - any we should really look at?

Dunn, Bradley and Watts are names we know, but you wonder why they were cut.
Dunn was a very highly rated junior but was mainly known for inspirational things like smothers and tackles while not showing as much scope for improvement as others might have had. Freo probably took him a bit high for mine. Had alot of injuries at Freo and I honestly dont know how he has gone when he has played.

I am not sure if Eade will be looking for an experienced running player to give us some depth in this area or not but I dont see alot of options at this stage. Freo delisted James Walker who can run like the wind but other than that he doesn't offer a great deal and is 28.

Brent Hartigan completely fell off the radar this year for Richmond and has been delisted. I dont follow the entire comp as thoroughly as I used to so I dont know why he fell from favour. Its funny how little things stick in your mind but I always remember him having a 14 possession quarter against us once then tearing his hamstring the next quarter. At any rate he does not seem to have come on as it once looked like he might. Realistically its unlikely we would find any really effective running players among the delisted players.

[mjp]

I'm interested in why Clayton Collard was cut after 1 year. Freo couldn't talk him up enough after last year's draft and now he's gone, although they want to rookie him. I'd imagine we'll probably pick up at least 1 experienced player whether it be in the PSD or the back end of the Draft.

Collard is a super, super talent. As good a junior as I have seen. I struggle to understand this decision, but he must have done something terribly wrong.

[Raw Toast]

Collard is a super, super talent. As good a junior as I have seen. I struggle to understand this decision, but he must have done something terribly wrong.

Weren't there positive noises from Freo about his debut game as well?

[Dry Rot]

There seems to be rumours about his attitude and off-field behaviour.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Collard is a super, super talent. As good a junior as I have seen. I struggle to understand this decision, but he must have done something terribly wrong.

You love your Sth Freo and Jets boys, don't you?

[mjp]

You love your Sth Freo and Jets boys, don't you?

I saw Clayton kick 5 goals from a wing in a WAFL Colts game at 15 years of age. He was pick 30 (or something) in a supposed super draft (though I will contend it wasn't really all that super, but that is another story).

Of course I love my SF and Jets boys - no secrets there. But the kid has some serious talent.

[FrediKanoute]

I actually think that there is some serious "delisted" talent this year and we could do well to recycle a couple of players either on the list or as rookies. Given the draft isn't deep I think we'll definitely go for someone with experience and maybe throw a lifeline to a couple of young guys who may not have developed quite so quickly! Probably the best bunck of avaialable talent int he PSD for a while

[Sockeye Salmon]

I saw Clayton kick 5 goals from a wing in a WAFL Colts game at 15 years of age. He was pick 30 (or something) in a supposed super draft (though I will contend it wasn't really all that super, but that is another story).

Of course I love my SF and Jets boys - no secrets there. But the kid has some serious talent.

You don't delist a kid that highly rated after just 1 year because he's not working hard enough, there's got to be more to it than that, surely?

[Dry Rot]

I actually think that there is some serious "delisted" talent this year and we could do well to recycle a couple of players either on the list or as rookies. Given the draft isn't deep I think we'll definitely go for someone with experience and maybe throw a lifeline to a couple of young guys who may not have developed quite so quickly! Probably the best bunck of avaialable talent int he PSD for a while

Yes, the ND could be quite odd this year ie a shallow draft of first timers plus heaps of club rejects (for whatever reason).

Can one club pick off another club's rookies, or do they need to nominate? A few WCE fans speak highly of Llane Spaanderman, and reckon he's worth being on a senior list

Fast Facts
Height: 198
Weight: 99
DOB: 1986-02-10

[The Coon Dog]

Yes, the ND could be quite odd this year ie a shallow draft of first timers plus heaps of club rejects (for whatever reason).

Can one club pick off another club's rookies, or do they need to nominate? A few WCE fans speak highly of Llane Spaanderman, and reckon he's worth being on a senior list

Fast Facts
Height: 198
Weight: 99
DOB: 1986-02-10

Wasn't he the guy Michael Voss was going to throttle at the Lions when he caught him smoking a joint?

[GVGjr]

Yes, the ND could be quite odd this year ie a shallow draft of first timers plus heaps of club rejects (for whatever reason).

Can one club pick off another club's rookies, or do they need to nominate? A few WCE fans speak highly of Llane Spaanderman, and reckon he's worth being on a senior list

Fast Facts
Height: 198
Weight: 99
DOB: 1986-02-10

I saw a couple of WAFL games he played and he still has talent. I'd question why th Dockers and Eagles don't see and value in him given he is right under their nose.
I'm not sure that I have heard anything that says he would nominate for the draft anyway.

[Mantis]

I saw a couple of WAFL games he played and he still has talent. I'd question why th Dockers and Eagles don't see and value in him given he is right under their nose.
I'm not sure that I have heard anything that says he would nominate for the draft anyway.

The Eagles have him on there rookie list so I would expect they watch him pretty closely.

[GVGjr]

The Eagles have him on there rookie list so I would expect they watch him pretty closely.

But if they thought he was any good they would be in the box seat to promote him which they haven't.

[Twodogs]

Wasn't he the guy Michael Voss was going to throttle at the Lions when he caught him smoking a joint?


I believe so, yes.

[The Underdog]

Still it'd be a shame to lose a guy with a name like Llane Spaanderman to football.
I mean there's a Coodabeen's tune there waiting to be written...The Spaanderman Can.
Or Spaander-man, Spaander-man, does whatever McDougall can (or can't)...

[Go_Dogs]

You don't delist a kid that highly rated after just 1 year because he's not working hard enough, there's got to be more to it than that, surely?

Wasn't there speculation around draft time last year, that the reason he fell so much (was at one stage rated near the top 10 IIRC) was due to off field problems.

[westdog54]

Wasn't he the guy Michael Voss was going to throttle at the Lions when he caught him smoking a joint?


I believe so, yes.
Definitely was him. I would consider it highly likely he is sitting on at least "one strike". Too big a risk to recruit as far as I'm concerned.

[LostDoggy]

i would have serious doubts over him if he was at his third club at the age of 21 or 22

[LostDoggy]

No to Spannderman. Prefer to play Street. We just drafted 2 recycled players (Hudson ,Callan) thats enough. Give us 7 kids thanks!

[LostDoggy]

I think we should look at one player with some senior footy experience. Bradley would be a good fit for us.

[LostDoggy]

He cant play. Doesn't matter how much experience he has. We don't want to fill the list with duds. We cant win the flag in the next 2 yrs anyway, does it matter if we take 7 kids?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He cant play. Doesn't matter how much experience he has. We don't want to fill the list with duds.

Amen.

Bradley is very ordinary player, if he made our 22 I'd be pretty worried. Steer way clear of him, it'd be as pointless as picking up Whitnall.

[LostDoggy]

we are a serious flag contender over the next 2 years i rekon.

[FrediKanoute]

Amen.

Bradley is very ordinary player, if he made our 22 I'd be pretty worried. Steer way clear of him, it'd be as pointless as picking up Whitnall.

I disagree. I think Bradley has been badly played out of position at Essendon. What bradley brings to the side is a mature bodied tall who is ready now as opposed to one who needs developing. In effect he is the Walsh we never got (ie the tall who has taken time to mature on a list). For pick 48, I think he'd be worth it!

[southerncross]

I disagree. I think Bradley has been badly played out of position at Essendon. What bradley brings to the side is a mature bodied tall who is ready now as opposed to one who needs developing. In effect he is the Walsh we never got (ie the tall who has taken time to mature on a list). For pick 48, I think he'd be worth it!

I tend to agree with you. If we could get him with one of our 3rd round picks (Adelaide might grab him earlier) then he adds a lot of insurance for us because he can play in a variety of positions. We might just be able to provide him with the opportunities that the Bombers couldn't.