Draft and Trade Strategy

[Sockeye Salmon]

On the off-chance that Brisbane won't trade us Jonathon Brown for Cameron Faulkner, what strategy do you think we should use?

1. Sell the farm to get Fev?

2. Keep our picks and wait for the kids?

3. Something in between?


My personal preference is to keep the picks. Yes, we all want a premiership now, but regardless of whether we win one or not, 2010 will turn up one day.

I'm against trading as a rule (predominately because of what it does to the fabric of a club, anyone who reads Robert Murphy's column would realise how much he loves the Bulldogs) but it would be good if Jordy wanted to go home.

I'd spend some of what we got for Jordy for a young(ish) forward. One that showed some promise earlier on but has underachieved of late. Laugh if you like, but someone like Jay Schultz - talented, physically developed, underperformed. It might be a complete waste, but so was picking Jesse Wells.


Bugger best available at the draft table.

I want who Clayton thinks is the best prospect out of Henderson/McEvoy/Gourdis. If Clayton thinks none of them are any good, I'd consider changing my strategy entirely and look at Fev.

There's plenty of rucks to draft this year - pick one.

Draft Callan Ward to keep Mike happy.

[DOG GOD]

ok..heres my take on things.

1) I dont want fev at the club. FULL STOP. I didnt want aker, so i definately dont want fev.

2) Personally i believe that keeping our FIRST pick is vital if we can nab henderson. Never seen him play, but all reports are this kid is good. If clayton thinks he will be around our pick 4-6? then i say get him.

McEvoy is another i have read about that i like the sound off.

3) i would TRADE ONE of our numourous downhill skiers for a POSSIBLE first round pick. Whether this would be possible im not sure, but maybe freo would give us theirs fo ray? :)

4) I wouldnt want shultz...of all the games ive seen him play he hasnt done anything for me. I would prefer a Damon White over shultz.

[Sockeye Salmon]

ok..heres my take on things.

1) I dont want fev at the club. FULL STOP. I didnt want aker, so i definately dont want fev.

2) Personally i believe that keeping our FIRST pick is vital if we can nab henderson. Never seen him play, but all reports are this kid is good. If clayton thinks he will be around our pick 4-6? then i say get him.

McEvoy is another i have read about that i like the sound off.

3) i would TRADE ONE of our numourous downhill skiers for a POSSIBLE first round pick. Whether this would be possible im not sure, but maybe freo would give us theirs fo ray? :)

4) I wouldnt want shultz...of all the games ive seen him play he hasnt done anything for me. I would prefer a Damon White over shultz.

I could handle White rather than Shultz, but I'd want more than just White for Jordy.

Rider - you don't trade anyone who doesn't want to go!

[DOG GOD]

I could handle White rather than Shultz, but I'd want more than just White for Jordy.

Rider - you don't trade anyone who doesn't want to go!

fair point.

[Twodogs]

Rider - you don't trade anyone who doesn't want to go!



I dont think I agree with that. I think if it's best for the club and good for the player involved then trade him.

[Dry Rot]

Anyone else fear Eade may do a Rohde and trade to shore up his short term position.

The simple fact is we are far from a flag and Fev won't help that.

Keep pick 4 and get the best tall, and if McMahon wants to go home get someone like Meesen (not suggesting a direct swap).

No Schultz etc

PS Eade has now given the list he has inherited a fair go - time for some tough decisions.

[Dry Rot]

I should add that now is the acid test for "draft the best available" folk.

IIRC, the theory goes that we draft the best not what we need, and trade them later if required.

Well, it's required now so let's see how it goes.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I dont think I agree with that. I think if it's best for the club and good for the player involved then trade him.

How do you play the loyalty card on Griff to re-sign when he's just seen one of his mates shipped off somewhere he didn't really want to go?

I agree with trades like Birss - clearly the best thing for his career and I'm sure he was all for it, I think he was looking for a trade to Port the year before - but I disagree with what Wallace did with Monty and Powell.

[Twodogs]

Anyone else fear Eade may do a Rohde and trade to shore up his short term position.





Not even vaguely. Eade isnt under the same pressure that Rohde was and isnt a fan of crisis management.

[Dry Rot]

Is it a good idea to define what we're lacking to become a top 4 side?

IMHO we need at least:

1 x developing/developed ruckman (assumes Minson will make it - dunno about that)

1-2 KPP forwards (assumes Williams is a defender, dunno how big Everritt will get or where he will play)

1-2 inside hard nut midfielders/taggers (perhaps Addison could become one?)

1 x hardnut lockdown small-medium defender (perhaps Addison could become one?)

1 x genuine small crumbing forward (perhaps Lynch or Harbrow?)

[GVGjr]

In general terms I'm a supporter of the best available approach however, after the first round of the draft you must start to address the needs of the team.

My understanding is that Higgins was rated number 2 by Clayton so of course at pick 11 he must be selected. This also applies with Everitt who I think was rated about number 7.

But unless a player that you rated in the top 10 is still available when you get to your 2nd round pick, you should look at the needs of the team.

We need to flexible in this approach. Other team have rebuilt their lists a lot quicker and we need to catch up.

[Sockeye Salmon]

In general terms I'm a supporter of the best available approach however, after the first round of the draft you must start to address the needs of the team.

My understanding is that Higgins was rated number 2 by Clayton so of course at pick 11 he must be selected. This also applies with Everitt who I think was rated about number 7.

But unless a player that you rated in the top 10 is still available when you get to your 2nd round pick, you should look at the needs of the team.

We need to flexible in this approach. Other team have rebuilt their lists a lot quicker and we need to catch up.

Are you advocating that if Clayton rates, say, Chris Masten above Henderson and both are available, he should take Masten?

No way!

[GVGjr]

Are you advocating that if Clayton rates, say, Chris Masten above Henderson and both are available, he should take Masten?

No way!

I don't think that he would rate them that way but if he does clearly rate Masten ahead of Henderson then he should be selecting him. He should then address the needs of the list with every selection after that if need be.
I know what you are saying and I know you have a strong opinion about it but overlooking a potential superstar for a needs based player with a first round draft selection is not something that I would do.

[Dry Rot]

I don't think that he would rate them that way but if he does clearly rate Masten ahead of Henderson then he should be selecting him. He should then address the needs of the list with every selection after that if need be.
I know what you are saying and I know you have a strong opinion about it but overlooking a potential superstar for a needs based player with a first round draft selection is not something that I would do.

The flip surely then is that you'd trade say Ray if the offer was right?

[GVGjr]

The flip surely then is that you'd trade say Ray if the offer was right?

Exactly. The trade period occurs before the draft. If you have a particular weakness (and we do) then you need to address it during the trade period. The draft alone is unlikely to fix things before the next season.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Theres a lot of good ideas in this thread:

I agree with DogTown that Fev does not interest me. Cant see him being traded for a price I would be comfortable with and just unconvinced he will ever be in a team that is truly successful.

I agree with Sockeye that we keep our picks, I dont mind us trying someone tall from another team but we shouldn't give up much, McDougall cost us basically nothing and that was about right. Schulz doesn't inspire me, and not sure Damon White will want out of Port - Mark Williams has a history of not trading anyone he wants to keep, but there could be someone the coaching staff thinks has a future with us.

As the season has progressed I agree more with GVGjr that with our first pick we should clearly take the best player available, I dont want to pass on a gun runner for a taller player just because we need talls. Clearly this 07 Bulldog Team has holes everywhere and a gun centre square player like a Joel Sellwood should be taken over a tall if there is one available.

It is the later rounds that we must address the type of specific needs Dry Rot speaks of. I am wondering whether our ruckman situation is determined partially by Ayce Cordy who may well be with us the year after (2009). I have faith in Minson, am sure Street will be with us in 08, but am unsure whether Skipper will be kept although he has shown glimpses of talent in his late season cameo. I dont consider Wight a ruckman and therefore we probably need a ruckman somwhere in the draft

We definitely need some key forward options, midfield hardness and I think a lockdown small defender would be a very welcome addition to the team. Griffens injury and Hahns rehabilitation and then injury have hurt our side enormously this year by taking away two bigger bodied midfield options.

I feel confident that Lynch and Harbrow will fill the small forward spots nicely and dont feel that is a priority area.

[Templeton31]

An interesting point of learning in my view is to look back on all the trades of player-to-us-for-a-draft-pick we have done over past 5 years or so. I dont think there are many times that you look back at the player we got and see the player the opposing team drafted and think "Yeh much happier we got our guy". Often when you look back and can actually put a face to the draft pick the draft pick seems much wiser.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I don't think that he would rate them that way but if he does clearly rate Masten ahead of Henderson then he should be selecting him. He should then address the needs of the list with every selection after that if need be.
I know what you are saying and I know you have a strong opinion about it but overlooking a potential superstar for a needs based player with a first round draft selection is not something that I would do.

This philosophy is flawed. How many gun forwards are taken outside of the first round? Let's take a look at the better forwards going round.

Brown - F/S
Brennan - pick 3
Fev - pick 28ish(?)
Cloke - F/S
Rocca - pick 2
Lloyd - pre-draft concession pick
Lucas - pick 4
Pavlich - pick 4
Tarrant - pick 6
Mooney - ?
Hawkins - F/S (hardly a gun, but promising)
Ablett - F/S (see Hawkins)
Roughead - pick 2
Franklin - pick 5
Boyle - pick 60 odd
Thompson - pick 70 odd
Petrie - ?
Neitz - zone
Tredrea - pre-draft concession pick
Richo - F/S
Riewoldt - pick 1
Kozzie - pick 2
Gehrig - pick 15ish
Hall - pick 16ish

If you want a good key forward, you have more chance to breed one than you are finding one after the first round.

[GVGjr]

Would you advocate Polak over Judd? (I know that is an extreme and not a great example)

How many of those players did we overlook when we had our selection? Yes I know there is a few like Griffen over Franklin, Murphy over Petrie and Johnson over Gehrig that spring to mind but other than that, most of the quality talls in recent drafts were selected before our selections. Also how many of those players carried their teams to a flag? Lucas and Lloyd did but Tarrant, Fev, Pav and Richo didn't largely because they only had average midfielders delivering the ball to them.

If I rated the best key forward as number 15 in talent this year then I wouldn't necessarily want to use pick 5 to get him and pass on the likes of Ebert or Morton or McEvoy.

We have struggled with Walsh when we have tried the best tall regardless approach and while injuries are largely to blame there, he also really wasn't a top 8 player that year.
I also know there was a lot of people on BF wanting Bradley over Ray and I fully understand the reasoning behind that but it's far from a fool proof approach to gamble with first round selections.

We need to be prepared to trade players for our needs not just draft talls to balance things out.

[Dry Rot]

This philosophy is flawed. How many gun forwards are taken outside of the first round? Let's take a look at the better forwards going round.

Brown - F/S
Brennan - pick 3
Fev - pick 28ish(?)
Cloke - F/S
Rocca - pick 2
Lloyd - pre-draft concession pick
Lucas - pick 4
Pavlich - pick 4
Tarrant - pick 6
Mooney - ?
Hawkins - F/S (hardly a gun, but promising)
Ablett - F/S (see Hawkins)
Roughead - pick 2
Franklin - pick 5
Boyle - pick 60 odd
Thompson - pick 70 odd
Petrie - ?
Neitz - zone
Tredrea - pre-draft concession pick
Richo - F/S
Riewoldt - pick 1
Kozzie - pick 2
Gehrig - pick 15ish
Hall - pick 16ish

If you want a good key forward, you have more chance to breed one than you are finding one after the first round.

Yep, the odds support that view.

[Dry Rot]

It is the later rounds that we must address the type of specific needs Dry Rot speaks of.

We definitely need some goodkey forward options

Corrected for team needs. ;)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Would you advocate Polak over Judd? (I know that is an extreme and not a great example)



Or Fiora over Pavlich?

You know as well as I that picking individual cases is bollocks.

There is so little between most of these kids that the number that they get taken doesn't really matter that much. There is usually a few standouts and after that it's pretty even.

I didn't think much of Bradley in 03 but I would have been happy with Fergus Watts. Like Walsh, he's had his injury problems and he's a dill for asking to be traded to a side with 3 big forwards. That might or might not have worked out (we could have used pick 6 on him).

I'm also not particularily interested in the ratings on BigFooty either. I know nothing at all of these kids, I used Henderson as an example because others have been talking him up. If Clayton rates a big kid even close to the best player, take him.

We could go back to the 97 draft and wouldn't be able to agree on the order even now. It's all crystal ball stuff.

The odds tell us though, if you want a good key forward take him first round or get a 100 gamer to breed with Lauren Jackson (I wonder if Marty Pask would be prepared to hire out Liesel Jones, she'd make a good brood mare).

[Templeton31]

A good thread indeed.....

I wonder though how the changing nature of trading might effect these discussions. I mean last year IIRC there was basically only 10 trades and all could be categorised as either (a) fringe players (eg Birss, Doogs) or (b) player/club wants out due to 'non playing' reasons (eg Aker, Tarrant, Stevens a few years before). If what happened last year becomes the regular thing then really the only way we are going to get a gun KPP is through the draft or be in the right-place-right-time for 'damaged' goods after a club-player fall out and in this day and age of professional, reasonably well managed clubs this is rare. After all if a club has a gun KPP they are going to go a looooooong way before they give him up b/c he's a naughty boy or wants to go home. Have a look at Fev - he has been very "naughty" over a period of time but Carlton, quite rightly, are still keeping him.

My point is that it is possible or even probable that the nature of player you can get through trading is moving towards only fringe players and therefore the only way to get a gun KPP is the draft.

[GVGjr]

Or Fiora over Pavlich?

You know as well as I that picking individual cases is bollocks.



That's exactly why I called it out as not a good example. But it does show as far as I am concerned that drafting anyone in the first round purely on your needs is probably even more risky.

Who should have we drafted ahead of the selections we actually made in the first round of recent years? Yes, it's crystal ball stuff and the power of hindsight is terrific but getting the player that you rate as clearly the best is far from a flawed logic. If you rate two players fairly similar and one of them meets your needs then you need to be flexible. I just wouldn't pass over a player that I rated number 2 in the draft at pick 11 for a player that I rated number 15 just because number 15 met my short term needs.




I didn't think much of Bradley in 03 but I would have been happy with Fergus Watts. Like Walsh, he's had his injury problems and he's a dill for asking to be traded to a side with 3 big forwards. That might or might not have worked out (we could have used pick 6 on him).



Bradley developed physically a lot quicker than I thought he would but he hasn't been as focused on his footy as he should be and has stalled. Perhaps a change of scenery is in order.

It's a good discussion and while we are a fair way apart with our views I can see where you are coming from.

[dog town]

Is it a good idea to define what we're lacking to become a top 4 side?

IMHO we need at least:

1 x developing/developed ruckman (assumes Minson will make it - dunno about that)

1-2 KPP forwards (assumes Williams is a defender, dunno how big Everritt will get or where he will play)

1-2 inside hard nut midfielders/taggers (perhaps Addison could become one?)

1 x hardnut lockdown small-medium defender (perhaps Addison could become one?)

1 x genuine small crumbing forward (perhaps Lynch or Harbrow?) It is pretty hard to really nail a list like that because with the odd positional change or astute trade the whole dynamic of the list can change.

Have not posted alot of late so I will just add my two cents on a few issues regarding our list...

We certainly dont need crumbing forwards with the current style that we play but you would look at one if we were able to get a big forward in because our style of game would change to suit that.I think Clayton addressed that sort of area at the last draft so hopefully we can get some results out of the likes of Lynch, Harbrow etc in the next couple of seasons.In conclusion I dont think we wuld be putting too much time into finding a crumbing forward.

I am a little bit surprised that Eade hasn't thrown Harris forward atleast on the odd occasion this year just to see how he would go with an extended run. Many good forwards have started as defenders and I think most of our talls are natural defenders so we might be able to cover Harris better than we first thought particularly as Williams, Wight (still got hope for him), Everitt and co develop. I really have no idea how he would go but surely its worth a look as I think it would be easier to find a solid key defender at the trade table than it would be to find a star key forward.Harris played a little bit as a forward early days under Rohde and really attacked the ball in the air. He struggled to take many marks but creating alot of spillages and actually got most of his goals at ground level where he had surprisngly good goal sense. I remember him kicking a few against Freo in a game where we got flogged at the dome. I want us to have a look at it in the last couple of games as I think we need to make a decision on it now. We are building a really good backline (will be right up with the best in a couple of seasons IMO) and to take Harris away would weaken it so we need to know whether it is worth doing that.

Eade has said we will be looking for a "power forward" but I dont see alot of them being available. The names I have heard talked about are not really world beaters by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them would be worth a go with us but pretty much all of them would work better as a second or third forward. Just my view on a few of the names...

Schultz- Good athlete with very little footy smarts. Doesn't work hard enough for the type of athlete that he is IMO. The tigers have drafted two leading CHF's in the last two years so he could well be on the chopping block.

Ken Mcgregor- The last 12 months he has been in and out with injury which has seen him spend a bit of time outside the crows best side. Big work horse CHF/CHB who covers a bit of ground for a guy his size. Was very good for the rows in Craigs first year. Would create a very good contest but certainly not capable of leading a forward line. Would be a good swingman if Harris went forward though. Big question mark on his age/durability.

Heath Grundy- Good low cost option IMO. I dont think he would be a saviour but I think he is a good kid who is not getting a good run and I would be happy for us to take him and try to develop him. Liked him at under/18 level and have seen him put in a few good games for the swans. Still young and if an opportunity comes up we should always be looking to add quality to our list.

Ryan Murphy- Like the rest of them he would work better as a second or third forward option. Good athlete and can run and jump. Very inconsistent.

Courtney Johns- Always been a little unfairly criticised IMO. Seen as a Sheedy favourite so when he makes a mistake everyone is all over him. He has more ability than some think and is aggressive which is something I want if we are going to get a big forward. I am sure I am on my own but if he gets delisted I would be happy to re rookie him or something. Watched him since the 18s and you can imagine how hard it must be for a young forward trying to squeeze into a forward line that has Lloyd and Lucas.

White- Never rated him for some reason. Not alot of improvement factor with him because he gets a good go at Port and you know roughly what he is capable of. Would be ok for us but for what he would cost I would steer clear.Done more than most other guys mentioned but has very little improvement in him.

Dry Rot you mentioned we need a midfield tagger and I agree. I think you will find Eade will look to Sam Power to do this job next year and probably continue with Farren Ray as one for the quicker types as well provided he is not traded. More likely he will go with this option than look outside. He might look for a more explosive inside player but as far as taggers go he seems to be pretty pleased with Powers recent efforts.

I dont think you can look at the old argument about best available versus needs in simple black and white terms. Surely a degree of common sense needs to be used along with a splash of Claytons own judgement (thats what he is paid for) to decide these things. Its to simple to just say take the best available just as it is silly to say take a tall regardless. You just have to weigh it up at a pick by pick basis. If you have a top 10 pick and a tall of rare quality is available we are at the stage where it is just defying common sense if we dont take him. It is Claytons job to judge if a tall is real quality or not. He got the Kepler Bradley call right and got the Buddy Franklin call wrong. Alot depends on the year that you get a high pick. Some of it can be pure luck.

[Twodogs]

He got the Kepler Bradley call right and got the Buddy Franklin call wrong. Alot depends on the year that you get a high pick. Some of it can be pure luck.



Hang on, are you saying that taking Griffin over Franklin was a mistake

[mjp]

Hang on, are you saying that taking Griffin over Franklin was a mistake

Not in my opinion it wasn't.

[Go_Dogs]

Not in my opinion it wasn't.

Mine either. Buddy has had a great year, but let's not forget how much potential Griff has. He played most of the year injured before having to miss the second half of it - once he gets going in the midfield, watch out.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Yep, the odds support that view.

I think there is a certain element of truth in that

BUT using that logic it all depends on key position gun forwards being available in the years where you have early picks - If you draft in a year where Kepler Bradley is considered the best tall forward what do you do? Do you take him because you need a forward, or do you draft the best available player?

I know we opted for Griffen over Franklin, but the Hawks even opted for Roughead over Franklin. They could have taken Griffen at 2 and then probably still had Franklin, which I would have personally considered better recruiting.

I think the main problems of our recruiting has been the total obsession with skilled/athleticism over brute football force.

The challenge for Clayton/the Coaching staff is to find the right balance between these. Clearly we need athleticism i.e the agility of Murphy and Everitt, the leap of Tommy W, the speed of Gilbee, McMahon, Cooney, the endurance of Ray, Cross etc but we need to surround them with some types like Firritos, Archers, Sam Mitchell, Amon Buchanon, Brock McLean as well as some bigger bodied key position players.

[Dry Rot]

Mine either. Buddy has had a great year, but let's not forget how much potential Griff has. He played most of the year injured before having to miss the second half of it - once he gets going in the midfield, watch out.

Many would claim that a fit Judd is the best player in the comp, but given our list I'd take Jon Brown ahead of him if given the choice.

[westdog54]

Not in my opinion it wasn't.

IIRC there were concerns about Franklin's attitude towards football. There was no doubting that he had the talent, the question was always about whether he wanted to use that talent or not.

[Dry Rot]

If we hand on to our pick 4 or 5, we may be able to pick up one of Henderson, Gourdis or Rance.

Anyone seen them play?

[mjp]

IIRC there were concerns about Franklin's attitude towards football. There was no doubting that he had the talent, the question was always about whether he wanted to use that talent or not.

Not too sure about that Nick. I coached against him in Perth (he played for Perth when I was at South) and his attitude was fine. That isn't it. Look at his performances this year though - some times a bag of goals, some times none. Kicks goals from the boundary, misses from straight in front...all these aspects of his game remain unchanged for 5 years.

I know it is unfair to talk about attack on the ball and intensity when it comes to 17yo kids as well, but I really believed he was a hff in a chf's body....and I still believe that. He might yet be the next big thing - but potential doesn't always turn into production and I am not convinced it will.

Griffen is the best young leader I have ever seen and will captain our club. I would be shocked if Franklin was ever held in the same regard at Hawthorn.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If we hand on to our pick 4 or 5, we may be able to pick up one of Henderson, Gourdis or Rance.

Anyone seen them play?

I saw WA v SA and Gourdis and Rance were the two standouts for me. Rance especially, his marking was a delight and he pushed forward every chance he got. He did some real damage to SA.

Gourdis played as a lead-up CHF. He's skinny as hell but led to the right spots and has great hands.

WA were terrific that day, and except that it was one-sided, it was one of the most enjoyable games of footy I've seen in years. No flooding and more contested marks than the Dogs have taken all year. WA caught everything kicked in the air.

I don't think we need another key backman so I'd be looking at Henderson or Gourdis before Rance.

I wish we'd given Bruce Reid and Murray Rance a few more games each (now there's a something I'd never thought I'd say!)

[Raw Toast]

Great thread imo.


I dont think you can look at the old argument about best available versus needs in simple black and white terms. Surely a degree of common sense needs to be used along with a splash of Claytons own judgement (thats what he is paid for) to decide these things. Its to simple to just say take the best available just as it is silly to say take a tall regardless. You just have to weigh it up at a pick by pick basis. If you have a top 10 pick and a tall of rare quality is available we are at the stage where it is just defying common sense if we dont take him. It is Claytons job to judge if a tall is real quality or not.

Along the lines of what I was going to post. Generally I've been a fan of going for best available with the first pick, but each pick does need to be weighed carefully. I think all of us agree that if a v good tall prospect is available then we go for that player over other (non kp's) who are not deemed significantly better. For mine the tricky part lies in judging both how likely the kp is to make it and whether the non-kp's are significantly better.

I'm v happy with Higgins being chosen over kp's like Cleve Hughes and Wade Mills, as well as ruck options like Bailey. I'm also happy for a player like Griffen over Franklin - barring injuries Griffen seemed as close to a guaranteed gun as you can get, whereas Franklin was a high-risk talent with significant doubts as to whether he would become a kp or just be a tall flanker.

If the choice was between a fully fit Judd and Brown, I'd go for Brown as well atm (I'd go for Riewoldt over Kerr as well), but if it was between Judd and Hansen or Fevola I'd go for Judd, even though I'd like Fevola and/or Hansen in the team.

And while Clayton preaches best available, I don't think his approach is that simple either. Even when explaining last year's picks he said this to Emma Quayle: ""What you're basically doing is looking at players, seeing them in a role, and then asking whether they have the attributes to play that role."

Would we have taken Williams at 6 if we already had v good kp stocks?

[Bulldog Revolution]

I really believed he was a hff in a chf's body....and I still believe that. He might yet be the next big thing - but potential doesn't always turn into production and I am not convinced it will.

Griffen is the best young leader I have ever seen and will captain our club. I would be shocked if Franklin was ever held in the same regard at Hawthorn.

Thats Franklin in a nutshell - key position size with a half forwards game - but he is young and that may change. I am still firmly in favour of Griffen over Franklin - Griffen still has the potential to be a Voss, Ricciuto, Buckley type of midfield.

It looks like we will look back at the 2004 draft and see #3 Griffen and #6 Williams and think what a brilliant draft it was.

Id be really interested to hear more about Griffens leadership MJP

[westdog54]

Not too sure about that Nick. I coached against him in Perth (he played for Perth when I was at South) and his attitude was fine. That isn't it. Look at his performances this year though - some times a bag of goals, some times none. Kicks goals from the boundary, misses from straight in front...all these aspects of his game remain unchanged for 5 years.

I know it is unfair to talk about attack on the ball and intensity when it comes to 17yo kids as well, but I really believed he was a hff in a chf's body....and I still believe that. He might yet be the next big thing - but potential doesn't always turn into production and I am not convinced it will.

Griffen is the best young leader I have ever seen and will captain our club. I would be shocked if Franklin was ever held in the same regard at Hawthorn.

The reason I said that was because of an article I read a few months ago, though I may have misinterpreted it.

I'll try and dig it up again.

[dog town]

Hang on, are you saying that taking Griffin over Franklin was a mistake
I adore some of the things that Griffen does so will struggle to call it a mistake but I believe our list would look more balanced at the moment if we had Franklin running around up forward. I dont really blame Clayton for it as he took a safe option and was assured a high quality player. I certainly wasn't saying we should take Franklin at the time so who am I to comment?

Griffen doesn't do the basics well enough yet to have me sold on whether he will become an elite midfielder but he has that once in a generation feel about him. Perhaps a little early to call what would have been the correct call but the things Franklin is doing for a guy his age are pretty impressive.

[The Doctor]

Here is my 5 cents worth.

I can't see an established gun forward coming to us even if we toss in our first pick + player. Just can't see it. In any case as much as I'd like to get someone like Fev I don't think he solves the problem. Last thing I want to do is use our 1st pick on someone who is good but not top shelf simply because they are available. THis is the sort of thing that gets you into Rawlings type trouble. I don't want the pick wasted on Schulz or White or similars who have been in the system for a while and really don't warrant such a high pick. Maybe a gun KP will become available next year.

Therefore we keep our 1st pick unless,

You can get a potential gun forward or KP from a recent draft who is ready to play now but has stiff opposition for a place.

I would try and lure someone like Mitch Brown who went at 16 in 2006 or Cameron Wood at 18 in 2004. Brown is the big strong pack crashing CHF. Wood is the beautifully athletic 204cm ruckman. There may be others as well but these are 2 that I've liked fr a while and the first 2 I thought of.

Personally I found it amazing either player lasted as long as they did in their respective drafts. Our first pick may very well be enough to land one of them. Both players face strong opposition for places in their team and may like the idea of an easier path into the AFL with us if we can convince them we can offer it. If either player was in this draft I would argue that they would be certain top 10 picks. The added benefit is they have both been in the system for a bit and are ready to play.

It could be argued that this years draft is not as good as previous. No doubt our likely high pick will net us a very good player but is this years KP crop going to deliver us the player we need. Very arguable in my opinion.

Are they better than Henderson or Rance et al? Maybe/maybe not, however we know both can play at the highest level and we still get a 10 year player. Henderson has been injured so who is to say how his development has been affected? We drafted Walsh in similar circumstances.

Perhaps their respective clubs might be tempted by the fact that they get such a high pick whereas they may not get this opportunity again especially if they become frustrated and want out.

So I'd be doing some serious digging right now if I were at the Bulldogs.

[Dry Rot]

Therefore we keep our 1st pick unless,

You can get a potential gun forward or KP from a recent draft who is ready to play now but has stiff opposition for a place.

I would try and lure someone like Mitch Brown who went at 16 in 2006 or Cameron Wood at 18 in 2004. Brown is the big strong pack crashing CHF. Wood is the beautifully athletic 204cm ruckman. There may be others as well but these are 2 that I've liked fr a while and the first 2 I thought of.



Interesting thoughts - what clubs are they with now? Why would those clubs let them go?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Interesting thoughts - what clubs are they with now? Why would those clubs let them go?

Brown is at West Coast. He's behind Hansen and Lynch in the pecking order, although he has managed a couple of games. Wood is at Brisbane. He's played a fair bit but Leuenberger had an outstanding debut and Charman has been offered a 3 year deal (he wants 5 :eek: ).

It wouldn't be so much that their clubs let them go, more that we could almost guarantee them senior footy so they would want to join us.

Wonderfully well put, Doc.

It was kinda what I meant when I mentioned Shultz. He was taken in the same draft as Walsh. He's physically developed but would come cheaper.

[Dry Rot]

Brown is at West Coast. He's behind Hansen and Lynch in the pecking order, although he has managed a couple of games. Wood is at Brisbane. He's played a fair bit but Leuenberger had an outstanding debut and Charman has been offered a 3 year deal (he wants 5 :eek: ).

It wouldn't be so much that their clubs let them go, more that we could almost guarantee them senior footy so they would want to join us.

Wonderfully well put, Doc.

It was kinda what I meant when I mentioned Shultz. He was taken in the same draft as Walsh. He's physically developed but would come cheaper.

Thanks.

Do you know the contract status of Brown and Wood? Both sound good.

Looks like sound thinking Doc - wonder if the club has thought of it or are only looking at older players?

[Twodogs]

Is Mitch the twin brother of Nathan Brown the third at Collingwood?

[Dry Rot]

Is Mitch the twin brother of Nathan Brown the third at Collingwood?

Yes he is, and I now realise I've seen him play in Rd 1. He was good.

Would WCE trade him? They're not blessed with many tall forwards.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Is Mitch the twin brother of Nathan Brown the third at Collingwood?

Nathan Brown the third.

That made me laugh if you think Henry the third.

[aker39]

I notice that King has been dropped by Geelong again and is out of contract.

Do you think it would be worth picking him up for a couple of years. If we draft a young ruckman this year, it will take a couple of years for him to be ready.

[Twodogs]

I notice that King has been dropped by Geelong again and is out of contract.

Do you think it would be worth picking him up for a couple of years. If we draft a young ruckman this year, it will take a couple of years for him to be ready.

NO.



Cant put it any more clearly than that without swearing.

[Bulldog Revolution]

It was kinda what I meant when I mentioned Shultz. He was taken in the same draft as Walsh. He's physically developed but would come cheaper.

I am not sure he is that physically developed and he certainly isnt imposing, but its hard to tell in that 3/4 length sleave he wears - he just reminds me too much of paddy bowden, doesn't give me the jonathon brown vibe that if you just kick the ball anywhere in his vicinity he'll attack it in the air.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I am not sure he is that physically developed and he certainly isnt imposing, but its hard to tell in that 3/4 length sleave he wears - he just reminds me too much of paddy bowden, doesn't give me the jonathon brown vibe that if you just kick the ball anywhere in his vicinity he'll attack it in the air.

We're not going to get anyone with that 'Jonathon Brown vibe".

Maybe Wight for Shultz?

[dog town]

I certainly agree with Doc's line of thought that it is unlikely we will pull off a major trade this season especially without paying way over the odds for someone who is not quite what we need. More likely we will make the odd low cost hopeful trade similar to last years McDougall trade and perhaps look to address any problems through the draft should an opportunity come up. I wouldn't get overly disheartened if we only do a small trade for a fringe tall at another club as it will be low cost and these things do come off sometimes (not at our club generally).

I think I have seen Eade mention somewhere that he would like another one or two big bodied but hard running midfielders. Anyone have any ideas as to where he might be looking for this? He may have his eye on someone at another club or perhaps in the vfl where guys that are two or three years out of the 18s can mature quickly and come from the sky. We could certainly do with a bit more of a dynamic mix to our midfield

[Bulldog Revolution]

We're not going to get anyone with that 'Jonathon Brown vibe".

Maybe Wight for Shultz?

Would be better if the vibe was closer to brown that it is

I haven't seen that much of Shulz but i am inclined to believe Wight has more upside, but may also never get there

[Lally Bamblett]

The one thing we need to get in the draft, regardless of their height and position are some young guys with big bodies. I sat in the front row of row 10 on Sunday and was surprised at how large some of these younger Hawthorn blokes were compared to our blokes like Fazza, Gia and even Gilbs. I look at Lynch, Harbrow et al and these guys are going to get knocked off the ball in 2, 3 or even 5 years time because of their slender body size. One pre-season full of a heavy weight program is not going to alter the frames of a lot of our blokes. I look at a kid like Prismall from Geelong who was drafted with a big body frame...this is where we need to head.

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

[southerncross]

Fully agree Lally. Get some players with a bit of size and strength is a real requirement. From all reports there will be some strong bodied players available for our first selection although we will also need to consider this with the later selections as well.

[Go_Dogs]

Would someone like Scott Selwood who is a bit more bash and crash, be on our radar? The Shannon Hurn type is how I'm going to refer to the type of player I want us to chase. :)

[southerncross]

Would someone like Scott Selwood who is a bit more bash and crash, be on our radar? The Shannon Hurn type is how I'm going to refer to the type of player I want us to chase. :)

My guess is that he isn't an early first round selection but unlikely to be around by our second round selection. I don't think he is a Shannon Hurn type although he does switch between HB and midfield roles.

[hargs37]

Or Fiora over Pavlich?



The odds tell us though, if you want a good key forward take him first round or get a 100 gamer to breed with Lauren Jackson (I wonder if Marty Pask would be prepared to hire out Liesel Jones, she'd make a good brood mare).

Dont think you'll have much luck with Lauren Jackson, Fish as she doesn't play that way,if you know what I mean!

[Twodogs]

Dont think you'll have much luck with Lauren Jackson, Fish as she doesn't play that way,if you know what I mean!



What's her problem? I'm hetro but I'd take one for the team if I was convinced it was for the best interests of the footy club.

[The Underdog]

Here is my 5 cents worth.

I can't see an established gun forward coming to us even if we toss in our first pick + player. Just can't see it. In any case as much as I'd like to get someone like Fev I don't think he solves the problem. Last thing I want to do is use our 1st pick on someone who is good but not top shelf simply because they are available. THis is the sort of thing that gets you into Rawlings type trouble. I don't want the pick wasted on Schulz or White or similars who have been in the system for a while and really don't warrant such a high pick. Maybe a gun KP will become available next year.

Therefore we keep our 1st pick unless,

You can get a potential gun forward or KP from a recent draft who is ready to play now but has stiff opposition for a place.

I would try and lure someone like Mitch Brown who went at 16 in 2006 or Cameron Wood at 18 in 2004. Brown is the big strong pack crashing CHF. Wood is the beautifully athletic 204cm ruckman. There may be others as well but these are 2 that I've liked fr a while and the first 2 I thought of.

Personally I found it amazing either player lasted as long as they did in their respective drafts. Our first pick may very well be enough to land one of them. Both players face strong opposition for places in their team and may like the idea of an easier path into the AFL with us if we can convince them we can offer it. If either player was in this draft I would argue that they would be certain top 10 picks. The added benefit is they have both been in the system for a bit and are ready to play.

It could be argued that this years draft is not as good as previous. No doubt our likely high pick will net us a very good player but is this years KP crop going to deliver us the player we need. Very arguable in my opinion.

Are they better than Henderson or Rance et al? Maybe/maybe not, however we know both can play at the highest level and we still get a 10 year player. Henderson has been injured so who is to say how his development has been affected? We drafted Walsh in similar circumstances.

Perhaps their respective clubs might be tempted by the fact that they get such a high pick whereas they may not get this opportunity again especially if they become frustrated and want out.

So I'd be doing some serious digging right now if I were at the Bulldogs.


Going sfter Wood is a genius idea, but only workable if Charman stays at BL (he won't be come to us with Aker on the list I shouldn't think).
Brown might be a bit harder.
Be interested to know what any experienced VFL watchers think of Beau Dowler. Young, big, nice kick and stuck behind Buddy, Roughead, Boyle and Thorp.

[Dry Rot]

I read a claim today that McMahon has formally asked to return home.

Could be crap, but if true what should we be looking for from either Port or the Crows?

[Twodogs]

I read a claim today that McMahon has formally asked to return home.

Could be crap, but if true what should we be looking for from either Port or the Crows?



Got a link Dave?

[Go_Dogs]

If DR's referring to the same thing I saw on BF there is no link, merely a statement from someone that McMahon had formally asked to return home.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=354209&page=25

post #373.

[GVGjr]

Going sfter Wood is a genius idea, but only workable if Charman stays at BL (he won't be come to us with Aker on the list I shouldn't think).
Brown might be a bit harder.
Be interested to know what any experienced VFL watchers think of Beau Dowler. Young, big, nice kick and stuck behind Buddy, Roughead, Boyle and Thorp.

I haven't seen the Box Hill Hawks much but Dowler is a great prospect. I don't think the Hawks would want to off load him even if he is stuck behind the other blokes you have mentioned.

Given the way we played against them we might not have many that would suit them in a trade anyway.

[The Underdog]

I haven't seen the Box Hill Hawks much but Dowler is a great prospect. I don't think the Hawks would want to off load him even if he is stuck behind the other blokes you have mentioned.

Given the way we played against them we might not have many that would suit them in a trade anyway.

Not saying we'd get him cheap or that they'd enter into it, but I think like Wood, he's a young player in a position we need, who may be stuck behind others and starved of opportunity. Worth the question come trade talks. We'd be lucky to trade anyone on Sunday's form :(

[Templeton31]

Not saying we'd get him cheap or that they'd enter into it, but I think like Wood, he's a young player in a position we need, who may be stuck behind others and starved of opportunity. Worth the question come trade talks. We'd be lucky to trade anyone on Sunday's form :(

Sam Power for Wood?

I have no knowledge of this but on the principle that you've got to trade something to get something and every year for the past few there is a rumour about sam going to brissy.... is wood from melbourne?

[The Underdog]

Sam Power for Wood?

I have no knowledge of this but on the principle that you've got to trade something to get something and every year for the past few there is a rumour about sam going to brissy.... is wood from melbourne?

They'd want more than that I'd say, especially given Power's performance hasn't been overwhelming. Not sure Sam wants to leave Melbourne either.
Wood's from SA. 204cm, 95kg. Pretty good mover from what I've seen of him. Only 20 yo.

[Twodogs]

If Brisbane swapped Wood for Power I'll wash Leigh Matthews car every week for the rest of his life.

[GVGjr]

If Brisbane swapped Wood for Power I'll wash Leigh Matthews car every week for the rest of his life.


You really are a take one for the team sort of guy aren't you? :D

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Whilst I haven't seen Meesen play, I'm not keen on trading an established player (McMahon) for somebody who has only played a few games, and albeit hasn't exactly impressed from what I've read. Granted; early days, ruckmen take a while to develop .. but he's been in the system since 2004? and has been overtaken by all their other ruck prospects.

We need a ruckmen, but I'm not sure trading a good player for an unknown is worth it. It's a bit risky, but I'm not exactly in the 'know'.

Players like Rielly and Surjan would be very enticing, they're hard nosed players aren't afraid to go get the pill. I suppose it's a question of what we need more, and whether or not we could find a ruckmen elsewhere? (VFL etc?)

[Twodogs]

You really are a take one for the team sort of guy aren't you? :D



Whatever it takes.

[southerncross]

What about Richard Douglas from the Crows and/or the player the Doc rates in Mattner? Both have struggled for games but are a bit different types to some of the other players that we have on our list.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Whilst I haven't seen Meesen play, I'm not keen on trading an established player (McMahon) for somebody who has only played a few games, and albeit hasn't exactly impressed from what I've read. Granted; early days, ruckmen take a while to develop .. but he's been in the system since 2004? and has been overtaken by all their other ruck prospects.

We need a ruckmen, but I'm not sure trading a good player for an unknown is worth it. It's a bit risky, but I'm not exactly in the 'know'.

Players like Rielly and Surjan would be very enticing, they're hard nosed players aren't afraid to go get the pill. I suppose it's a question of what we need more, and whether or not we could find a ruckmen elsewhere? (VFL etc?)

Nothing wrong with Meeson for McMahon they would just have to even the deal up with draft picks. Their 2nd rounder will be about pick 27. That would be the minimum.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I would try and lure someone like Mitch Brown who went at 16 in 2006 or Cameron Wood at 18 in 2004. Brown is the big strong pack crashing CHF.

Doc,

What would you think about offering pick 5 to West Coast for Brown and pick 16?

[GVGjr]

The one advantage about that idea is that it gives them a plum chance to select the 2nd best local lad if thats who they are after or they might target Ebert as another strong bodied tank.
I think the offer is a bit light on for the Eagles though.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The one advantage about that idea is that it gives them a plum chance to select the 2nd best local lad if thats who they are after or they might target Ebert as another strong bodied tank.
I think the offer is a bit light on for the Eagles though.

Embers on BF made a claim that he heard the Eagles recruiting manager say that this draft really fell away after the first 8 or so. Maybe, if they don't rate those available at pick 16?

[Twodogs]

The only problem with that statement is Embers is a moron.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The only problem with that statement is Embers is a moron.

Absolutely.

A poster on BF has now said that on CH9, it was reported we've been talking to Russell Robertson's management. He's a good player, but obviously not what we need. Why do you think - if true - they've spoke to them? A sense of 'getting a feel' for things, or would we actually be interested?

Seems a bit odd to me, even if he is a good player.

[westdog54]

Absolutely.

A poster on BF has now said that on CH9, it was reported we've been talking to Russell Robertson's management. He's a good player, but obviously not what we need. Why do you think - if true - they've spoke to them? A sense of 'getting a feel' for things, or would we actually be interested?

Seems a bit odd to me, even if he is a good player.

Very odd. Granted, Robbo is a fantastic footballer. Problem is I don't think we need another footballer of his age at our club.

[southerncross]

Would Jaymie Graham from the Eagles be worth considering?

[Dry Rot]

Anyone for Seaby? He's out of contract I think.

[mjp]

Would Jaymie Graham from the Eagles be worth considering?

He was one I tried to stir up people interest in a couple of years back. Terrific player - can play back or forward...I do think he is better suited to a complementary role though (2nd forward, 2nd defender etc) but would love him at the club.

[westdog54]

Anyone for Seaby? He's out of contract I think.

If the Eagles are willing to let him go I won't say no. What are their ruck stocks like.

[The Doctor]

Doc,

What would you think about offering pick 5 to West Coast for Brown and pick 16?

Yeah I'd do that deal for sure. I'd probably do it without the pick 16 thrown in.

[Go_Dogs]

You rate Brown that highly? I must confess I don't know an awful lot about him.

[GVGjr]

You rate Brown that highly? I must confess I don't know an awful lot about him.

He is a terrific talent and imo a bit better than his more highly regarded twin.
having said that, I'd want a bit sweeter deal than just a swap for pick 5

[westdog54]

Yeah I'd do that deal for sure. I'd probably do it without the pick 16 thrown in.

Brown is still a first year draftee.

I'm not sure if he'd be offered up for trade that easily if he's so highly rated.

[Dry Rot]

What about the PSD and/or hard players in their twilight years? We'll have a good PSD pick this time around too.

I wouldn't mind getting either Whitnall or Chick for nothing.

Whitnall because he's better a tall forward than almost anybody else we have and could be a good stopgap if we say keep our pick #5 and go with with Henderson or McEnvoy (sp?). Chick because he is an old hard nut and having one wouldn't hurt us at all.

Thoughts?

[bornadog]

What about the PSD and/or hard players in their twilight years? We'll have a good PSD pick this time around too.

I wouldn't mind getting either Whitnall or Chick for nothing.

Whitnall because he's better a tall forward than almost anybody else we have and could be a good stopgap if we say keep our pick #5 and go with with Henderson or McEnvoy (sp?). Chick because he is an old hard nut and having one wouldn't hurt us at all.

Thoughts?

DR, my only concern is we are going for ageing players again. If they were around 25 to 26 years old I would say why not.

[Dry Rot]

DR, my only concern is we are going for ageing players again. If they were around 25 to 26 years old I would say why not.

Agreed, but I see them only as no cost stop gaps for 2 years while younger guys come on.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldnt say no to something like

Jordan McMahon & Our 1st or 2nd Pick for Johnno Brown, he is a tall talented full forward we are lacking. But if Jordie wants to goto SA what can we get for him?

[westdog54]

I wouldnt say no to something like

Jordan McMahon & Our 1st or 2nd Pick for Johnno Brown, he is a tall talented full forward we are lacking. But if Jordie wants to goto SA what can we get for him?

Somehow I get the feeling Brisbane would say no to something like that.

[GVGjr]

Somehow I get the feeling Brisbane would say no to something like that.

I think they would ask 'Are you really serious'? first though.

[Twodogs]

I think they would ask 'Are you really serious'? first though.



With a huge Peter Costello like smirk.

[Sedat]

On the off-chance that Brisbane won't trade us Jonathon Brown for Cameron Faulkner, what strategy do you think we should use?

1. Sell the farm to get Fev?

2. Keep our picks and wait for the kids?

3. Something in between?


My personal preference is to keep the picks. Yes, we all want a premiership now, but regardless of whether we win one or not, 2010 will turn up one day.

I'm against trading as a rule (predominately because of what it does to the fabric of a club, anyone who reads Robert Murphy's column would realise how much he loves the Bulldogs) but it would be good if Jordy wanted to go home.

I'd spend some of what we got for Jordy for a young(ish) forward. One that showed some promise earlier on but has underachieved of late. Laugh if you like, but someone like Jay Schultz - talented, physically developed, underperformed. It might be a complete waste, but so was picking Jesse Wells.


Bugger best available at the draft table.

I want who Clayton thinks is the best prospect out of Henderson/McEvoy/Gourdis. If Clayton thinks none of them are any good, I'd consider changing my strategy entirely and look at Fev.

There's plenty of rucks to draft this year - pick one.

Draft Callan Ward to keep Mike happy.
Hello fellow dogs fans, nice to join the (relatively) new fan site.

I concur with all of the above, including Schulz. Not knowing much about the kids coming through, you would imagine that pick 5 will be a very accomplished future 200 gamer. I'd need an awful amount of convincing to dispense with such a high pick to try and lure a Fev or Charman.

[Dry Rot]

Welcome about Sedat.

After last 7 weeks I just can't see the logic in selling the farm to get Fev now - I think we have a lot more rebuilding to do, not just missing a key forward.

[southerncross]

Welcome about Sedat.

After last 7 weeks I just can't see the logic in selling the farm to get Fev now - I think we have a lot more rebuilding to do, not just missing a key forward.

Richardson can't turn the Tigers into a contender and the same with Fevola at the Blues. The problems are deeper than just the lack of a key forward.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we'd be rather silly to throw the farm at Fev, but there's something about Eade that makes me think he might have a crack anyway.

[The Coon Dog]

I have just returned from a 2 week cruise through the South Pacific & the internet was scarce & expensive to access.

Am now just catching up on WOOF.

I must say, this thread has had me riveted, great reasons for & against on issues with respect for a previous posters point of view.

Thank you to all previous posters. Your thought & comments are very much appreciated.

[Go_Dogs]

Come on TCD, you know the WOOF forums is where it's at!

[The Coon Dog]

Come on TCD, you know the WOOF forums is where it's at!

Can't disagree with that!

[bornadog]

Can't disagree with that!

You were better off on the cruise than watching the pathetic display put up over the past few weeks.

Every year I get sucked in and don't book a holiday in September.

[Twodogs]

You were better off on the cruise than watching the pathetic display put up over the past few weeks.

Every year I get sucked in and don't book a holiday in September.



Yep, I reckon he was as well. I got to sit in his level 2 seats while he was gone.:D

[westdog54]

Yep, I reckon he was as well. I got to sit in his level 2 seats while he was gone.:D

They were level 2 seats???

:mad: :mad: :mad: I would've tried harder to get last weekend off work if I'd known that!!

[LostDoggy]

The thing is you saw the same crap from all seats lately.
Coon Dog had the best seat.

[Mantis]

I sat in a corporate box for the Geel, WCE, Melb and Kangaroos game. It's all good and well drinking free beer, but it doesn't make up for the fact you have to sit through 2 and half hours of crap footy by the team you support.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I sat in a corporate box for the Geel, WCE, Melb and Kangaroos game. It's all good and well drinking free beer, but it doesn't make up for the fact you have to sit through 2 and half hours of crap footy by the team you support.

I know that Sundays performance turned me to drink to drown the sorrows so I can only feel for your liver after all those shellackings

[southerncross]

This article shows some possible movements with ruckman.
Wood from the Lions might be available, Meesen as well plus the experienced Darren Jolly. We have plenty of competition but we can at least get into these races.

SYDNEY ruckman Darren Jolly may play his last game for the Swans this weekend, with the lure of a return to Victoria said to be tempting him away from the SCG.
The 25-year-old, who will split Sydney's centre-square responsibilities with Peter Everitt in Saturday night's elimination final against Collingwood, is out of contract at the end of the season and is understood to be contemplating a return to Melbourne to resettle his wife and infant daughter closer to family.
Sydney general manager of football Andrew Ireland is to meet Jolly's manager, Michael Quinlan, tomorrow in the hope of further negotiations but said he was aware of Jolly's "circumstances".
"Darren has not conveyed that (his departure) to us at this point," Ireland said. "We're having discussions with his management and we certainly understand his circumstances, but we're hopeful of retaining him. He's definitely required."
Originally from regional Victoria, Jolly started his career with Melbourne seven seasons ago as a promoted rookie. Four years later, at the end of 2004, he was traded north for Sydney's first-round pick, selection 15, with which the Demons selected Lynden Dunn.
It is understood that as many as six clubs have expressed interest in acquiring Jolly, who played in Sydney's drought-breaking 2005 premiership in his first year with the club.
The Western Bulldogs, Carlton, St Kilda, Melbourne, Richmond and Collingwood are all in the market for ruckmen in a year that isn't offering many opportunities to recruit one through the draft.
It is understood that Adelaide is prepared to release John Meesen in a trade and Brisbane Lion Cameron Wood, who is contracted for next year, is also likely to make a move given Jamie Charman's hold on the first ruck position with the Lions, Matthew Leuenberger's emergence this year and the fact Beau McDonald is contracted for another season.
Both Meesen and Wood, though, are inexperienced and some way from fulfilling front-line duties. Jolly is not.

[Go_Dogs]

Who do you think would be our best option out of those three?

[GVGjr]

I'll jump in on that one Macca.
Jolly has done well up in Sydney and be a solid selection
Wood might still need another season to develop but is a far better prospect.
Meesen might just need an opportunity.

It all depends on the trade requirements but Wood is the best fit for us. I'd want to hang onto pick 5 so it might be tough to get the Lions to part with him.

[bulldogtragic]

I'd be jumping on Wood, but realistically pick 5 would go.

I'd be very interested in the price on Meesen, as to what AFC want and what they actually get.

[Bulldog Revolution]

It all depends on the trade requirements but Wood is the best fit for us. I'd want to hang onto pick 5 so it might be tough to get the Lions to part with him.

We definitely need a young ruckman; Wood will definitely want out, they have charman and leunberger plus mcdonald if he keeps going

Its amazing the way other teams stockpile all these ruckman

[Dry Rot]

FWIW, Jolly is most use to a team not far off being challengers eg Pies or Saints.

Younger ruckmen would be better for the young/crap/developing sides like us, Dees Blues and Tigers, who are at least 2 years off being up there.

[GVGjr]

FWIW, Jolly is most use to a team not far off being challengers eg Pies or Saints.



They are more likely to throw a bit more money his way as a way of bridging the gap from thereabouts team to a genuine contender.



Younger ruckmen would be better for the young/crap/developing sides like us, Dees Blues and Tigers, who are at least 2 years off being up there.

I suppose if I was managing a young ruckman I'd want him to get to a team that is likely to play him the most so the teams struggling with ruck depth would appeal. Having both Street and Minson already in the team might not be ideal for a future ruckman wanting to be at least assured of some opportunities at a new club.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I suppose if I was managing a young ruckman I'd want him to get to a team that is likely to play him the most so the teams struggling with ruck depth would appeal. Having both Street and Minson already in the team might not be ideal for a future ruckman wanting to be at least assured of some opportunities at a new club.

Minson didn't focus on the ball long enough in 2007 to be consistently picked, and Street was patchy, albeit injured.

We are going to play at least two ruckman each week so any young ruckman would have a reasonable chance with us of being one of the two, particularly if it was someone we specifically recruited

[Dry Rot]

This article shows some possible movements with ruckman.
Wood from the Lions might be available, Meesen as well plus the experienced Darren Jolly. We have plenty of competition but we can at least get into these races.

...............

The Western Bulldogs, Carlton, St Kilda, Melbourne, Richmond and Collingwood are all in the market for ruckmen in a year that isn't offering many opportunities to recruit one through the draft.


The article forgets to mention that the Swans will now also be in the market for ruckmen if Jolly is leaving.

[bulldogtragic]

The article forgets to mention that the Swans will now also be in the market for ruckmen if Jolly is leaving.
Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson & 3rd rounder > Dogs

Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson & 3rd rounder > Sydney
Jolly > Dogs

Wood - I can only see a first rounder snaring him?

Thoughts on any of the preferences?

[Mantis]

Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson & 3rd rounder > Dogs

Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson & 3rd rounder > Sydney
Jolly > Dogs

Wood - I can only see a first rounder snaring him?

Thoughts on any of the preferences?

I think option 2 where we get Jolly would be the preferred option, although I would like to retain McMahon if possible, there are a few other's who should be shown the door before him. In saying that if McMahon wants to return back to SA then this is an option.

Not super keen in exchanging a regular first team player who has potential in McMahon for a largely unproven player in Meeson.

[n8v]

I am just gutted to be honest, this time last year i couldnt believe where we sat

just making the finals wow itravelled from tassie to watch the game against collingwood, all the way home i though who are we gonna kick out of the team to make room for some old stars.

Now look at us we are hopeless perhaps we need a new coach, i like rocket but all famialr sounds are coming from when plough left,

Rocket all year continually made excuses for lame performances and encouraged our boys to not think they could win the premiership.

Near enough is not good enough anymore i buy thousands of $$$ worth of dogs merchandise for what to say i went for a side that just made the finals.

hmmm i am over it trade teams i think i might rather than players

[The Underdog]

hmmm i am over it trade teams i think i might rather than players

Are you Yoda?

[westdog54]

Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson & 3rd rounder > Dogs

Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson & 3rd rounder > Sydney
Jolly > Dogs

Wood - I can only see a first rounder snaring him?

Thoughts on any of the preferences?

I agree with Mantis, option 2 seems the most win-win option.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson & 3rd rounder > Dogs

Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson & 3rd rounder > Sydney
Jolly > Dogs

Wood - I can only see a first rounder snaring him?

Thoughts on any of the preferences?

I think key forwards are more important than a ruckman. I agree our ruck situation isn't ideal but we can cope. Our key forward situation is dire.

Jordy > Adelaide
Meeson > Dogs
Ryan Murphy > Dogs
Adelaide and Freo sort out the rest because I don't care about them.


PS. Meeson and a 3rd rounder isn't enough for Jordy or Jolly.

[mjp]

What about McMahon ==> Port;
Port's first pick ==> Brisbane;
Wood ==> Us.

The spanner in all of this is exactly what Charman is planning on doing. If he decides to leave the Lions, there is no way they trade Wood.

[GVGjr]

Would McGregors recall to the Crows just about count him out of any potential trade with the Dogs?
I see once again Mattner has been dropped.

We targeted two players during the trade period last year and got them both but this is going to be a more difficult process if the rumours about McMahon looking to go home are true.

We have many needs like a decent ruckman, a lead up CHF and a lock down midfielder/defender type so this might be the biggest trade period we have had.

[The Underdog]

What about McMahon ==> Port;
Port's first pick ==> Brisbane;
Wood ==> Us.

The spanner in all of this is exactly what Charman is planning on doing. If he decides to leave the Lions, there is no way they trade Wood.

Two things.
1. Are Adelaide more in need of a McMahon type than Port (of the 2 Adelaide teams)?
2. Is McMahon worth a 1st rounder, albeit a low one.

I like your thinking though.
I think Wood is the ruckman we should be after. He needs a year or two, but certainly has the potential to be a lot better than Jolly is now.

Let's all barrack for Charman to re-sign with Brisbane.

Does anyone think there is a better KPP prospect likely to be on the market than Ken McGregor, now that it would appear Fev isn't available? Or any other we should go after seriously within the realms of reality?

[GVGjr]

What about McMahon ==> Port;
Port's first pick ==> Brisbane;
Wood ==> Us.

The spanner in all of this is exactly what Charman is planning on doing. If he decides to leave the Lions, there is no way they trade Wood.

I suppose the question marks are if Port would trade a pick around the 14 to 17 mark for McMahon and if the Lions would think that is adequate for Wood.

My guess is that Port would love to get an earlier selection so that they could add Ebert to the family so might be more interested in trading the 1st round picks with us and topping it up with another player or two.
I've had a good look at their list and there doesn't appear to be too much that we would be interested in or that they would be willing to part with.

[The Underdog]

If McMahon wants to go home, if we are to do a striaght swap, the Crows definitely seem to have more players that might be available that suit our needs. McGregor being the obvious. Meesen another, although I don't know much about him.
Anyone seen him / rate him?

[GVGjr]

If McMahon wants to go home, if we are to do a striaght swap, the Crows definitely seem to have more players that might be available that suit our needs. McGregor being the obvious. Meesen another, although I don't know much about him.
Anyone seen him / rate him?

Meesen was a very good ruck prospect as a junior but just hasn't developed like he probably should have although it's only been 3 years. Interesting that the Crows selected him over the local boy Wood.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If McMahon wants to go home, if we are to do a striaght swap, the Crows definitely seem to have more players that might be available that suit our needs. McGregor being the obvious. Meesen another, although I don't know much about him.
Anyone seen him / rate him?

I'm a bit gunshy about McGregor because he's had a few injury problems.

I think a lot of Bulldog supporters have been underestimating McMahon's value.

If the Crows offered McGregor and Meeson together I still think we would be getting ripped. It might be the best offer we get and might have to take it, but I still think we would be getting ripped.

[The Underdog]

Meesen was a very good ruck prospect as a junior but just hasn't developed like he probably should have although it's only been 3 years. Interesting that the Crows selected him over the local boy Wood.


And it would seem they'd be quite happy to reverse the decision now.

[Sockeye Salmon]

And it would seem they'd be quite happy to reverse the decision now.

The Crows (and Port) don't seem to realise what a shithole Adelaide is. The sooner they stick to locals the better off they'll be.

[bulldogtragic]

Meeson was always rumoured to be home-sick and not committed as a consequence. I dont know how much of that to believe, but if he got to an environment he liked back in Victoria and the coach thought he could get that potential out of him i'd welcome him with a big smile. Still Woody is the boy i think, but Meesen should cost less you'd hope.

[The Underdog]

I'm a bit gunshy about McGregor because he's had a few injury problems.

I think a lot of Bulldog supporters have been underestimating McMahon's value.

If the Crows offered McGregor and Meeson together I still think we would be getting ripped. It might be the best offer we get and might have to take it, but I still think we would be getting ripped.

McGregor's injuries are a worry, but he also is a big forward with good hands.
I wouldn't overpay for him, but i wouldn't knock him back at the right price.
Certainly would prefer him over Murphy, age be damned.

A first rounder for Jordy would be great value, and if we could turn that into Wood, I'd have my first Doggies related smile for a while (Doogs goal notwithstanding)

[Raw Toast]

Meeson was always rumoured to be home-sick and not committed as a consequence. I dont know how much of that to believe, but if he got to an environment he liked back in Victoria and the coach thought he could get that potential out of him i'd welcome him with a big smile. Still Woody is the boy i think, but Meesen should cost less you'd hope.

Is it a concern if someone hasn't performed out of home-sickness? I don't mind players getting home-sick but think it's a bit of a worry if it really has affected their performance.

Wood is the player I'd really like to get as well but not sure how we'll do with all the competition for rucks.

I agree with Sockeye (and a few others) that McMahon is generally being under-rated - I think Adelaide will be super-keen as a running defender with great footskills (as a rule) who is versatile fits their game-plan to a tee. Unfortunately he fits our style to a tee as well and we've really struggled to get any run when he's been out or down on form.

McGregor and Bock are both ok imo but neither is much of a natural forward. At least both can run and contest.

[DOG GOD]

to get cameron wood we would have to give lions pick 5, UNLESS crows gave us their 1st pick for Mcmahon (which they wouldnt do).

[westdog54]

Is it a concern if someone hasn't performed out of home-sickness? I don't mind players getting home-sick but think it's a bit of a worry if it really has affected their performance.


That's a fair question to ask. I'd be concerned about someone who wasn't playing well due to 'homesickness.' McMahon you can understand, there are underlying factors that go beyond "I want to go home".

[bulldogtragic]

to get cameron wood we would have to give lions pick 5, UNLESS crows gave us their 1st pick for Mcmahon (which they wouldnt do).
Well lets hope they keep winning and their pick drops and then it 'may' happen.

[LostDog]

I'm surprised that we didnt have a chat to Byron Pickett i think he still had something to offer he could have taught our young brigrade to be hard.

I like the thought of going after a full back rather than a key position foward, Brian Harris could be the bigger answer to Matthew Robbinsin the way of backs turn fowards , Harris was a full foward in his younger days

we need a monster to combat these Buddy Franklins, Jonathon Browns and Cameron Mooneys i just dont think big bad Brizer Harris has that

[LostDog]

Is it to late to look Jpod from Werribee, or do you think the Werribee project was ruined on the last time i cant think of his name he had Red Hair

I still think Doogs is our answer just needs some confidence over the summer,

Western Australian and South Australians have been killing us in the recruiting side of things time to look at the VFL there are some good fowards in the the league.
Adam Debyrsheer dominates the Tasmanian top competion at full foward and plays full foward with the Devils.

[GVGjr]

Is it to late to look Jpod from Werribee, or do you think the Werribee project was ruined on the last time i cant think of his name he had Red Hair



Welcome LD. FWIW Pods is not the answer for us.

[Go_Dogs]

Would anyone be interested in Nick Lower?

[LostDog]

Lance Whitnall? showed he still had something in the last game
We would get him for next to nothing

Do Geelong have any blokes that are playing in the 2's besides Hawkins that we could pinch

[Dry Rot]

Welcome to WOOF Lostdog.

IMHO there could be an argument for Whiitnail as a stopgap via the PSD if we keep our picks and don't get a MacGregor style established tall.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Welcome to WOOF Lostdog.

IMHO there could be an argument for Whiitnail as a stopgap via the PSD if we keep our picks and don't get a MacGregor style established tall.

Someone once said to me "you're never truely washed up as a footballer until you've been traded to the Dogs as a FF".

[LostDog]

That wouldnt be Alan Jakovich or Jade Rawlings saying that by any chance

[The Coon Dog]

Or Minton-Connell, Cookie or Aaron James.

[LostDog]

I have the answer draft my cousin google the name Darin Stewart
has a lot of potential is tall stocky and plays full forward with a big leap.
Both Michael Voss and Alistair Lynch have been working with him on his kicking action.
Was compared to Collingwoods Toovey in the NAB under 18's for Queensland, I'm not being Bias he is really a good looking prospect and possible late round Draft option. Google him you wont be dissapointed.

[Dry Rot]

Read a rumour that Didak wants to return to SA to the Crows.

If true, this will bugger up any first round trade for McMahon.

[GVGjr]

Read a rumour that Didak wants to return to SA to the Crows.

If true, this will bugger up any first round trade for McMahon.


I think any McMahon to the Crows talk will revolve around a player exchange not a frist round draft pick.

[LostDoggy]

Read a rumour that Didak wants to return to SA to the Crows.

I find that hard to believe when he turned a move back to Port in the proposed Nick Stevens deal.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I find that hard to believe when he turned a move back to Port in the proposed Nick Stevens deal.

Agreed Ernie - He is one of their most favourite sons, and even with the midseason scandal I just cant see them trading him

[westdog54]

Or Minton-Connell, Cookie or Aaron James.

Bit rough on SMC and Cookie, they were at least servicable, and were handy the finals we played.

[The Coon Dog]

Bit rough on SMC and Cookie, they were at least servicable, and were handy the finals we played.

I agree westdog, I was just naming some more FF's we had gotten from other clubs.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Bit rough on SMC and Cookie, they were at least servicable, and were handy the finals we played.

SMC was dreadful.

He kicked 5 v West Coast in the final in 98. I reckon two were chest marks from mis-kicks, two were Joe-the-goose and the other was a relayed free down the ground. I knew then we were dead in the water v Adelaide because SMC would get another game. His stats v Adelaide 0 kicks 0 hb 0 marks and 0 goals.

[Dry Rot]

Was Cookie rubbed out for that last '98 game for us?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Was Cookie rubbed out for that last '98 game for us?

Yep. Got two weeks for belting Anthony Rock in R22.

[Twodogs]

SMC was dreadful.

He kicked 5 v West Coast in the final in 98. I reckon two were chest marks from mis-kicks, two were Joe-the-goose and the other was a relayed free down the ground. I knew then we were dead in the water v Adelaide because SMC would get another game. His stats v Adelaide 0 kicks 0 hb 0 marks and 0 goals.




He couldnt mark the ball overhead.

[LostDoggy]

I have been a bit confused with trying to work out what our trade / draft strategy will be this year.

We have delisted a few this week, and along with the retirements there will be a few gaps on the list. I know that there was 2 rookies cut, and that Harbrow & Hughes will probably be elevated, but that still leaves a few spots to be filled.

With the draft apparently being shallow, Im not sure how many picks we will use.

How are we likely to trade picks to another club for one of their players if the draft is shallow? Wont other clubs baulk at that?

Also, if the draft is shallow, by rights that should effect the quality of rookies likely to be taken in the rookie draft.

Im sure some of you guys have thought about it.............(hopefully :) )

[Sockeye Salmon]

By delisting 4, retiring 3 (maybe 4) and elevating Harbrow, I think we intend to trade one good player for two lesser players.

I can't see us using 6 draft picks.

[LostDoggy]

By delisting 4, retiring 3 (maybe 4) and elevating Harbrow, I think we intend to trade one good player for two lesser players.

I can't see us using 6 draft picks.

Thanks SS,

Do you mean trading one of our "good" players for two others from other teams?

If thats so, you could build a case for us trading Jordie to Adelaide for Meesen & McGregor

[The Underdog]

Thanks SS,

Do you mean trading one of our "good" players for two others from other teams?

If thats so, you could build a case for us trading Jordie to Adelaide for Meesen & McGregor

Sorry to cut across your question, but I think while McGregor isn't a Fev like top level power forward, he will provide a contest and can occasionally take a good mark and kick a few. If Jordy wants to go to the Crows, I could see us trying to include Kenny in the deal. I don't know anything about Meesen so I can't comment and I'm not even getting into the mire of what each player is worth, life's too short :)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Thanks SS,

Do you mean trading one of our "good" players for two others from other teams?

If thats so, you could build a case for us trading Jordie to Adelaide for Meesen & McGregor

That sort of thing, yeah.

[The Underdog]

Article in the Australian today claims we've offered Russell Robertson a 3 year contract.
The main question I guess being....WHY?

[GVGjr]

Article in the Australian today claims we've offered Russell Robertson a 3 year contract.
The main question I guess being....WHY?

I just had a read of it. At almost 29 and with some knee issues this must be a bit of a gamble. I wonder if this is a ploy of his manager to get a sweeter deal from the Demons.
I see that we still have some interest in Ken McGregor as well.

[Mantis]

Article in the Australian today claims we've offered Russell Robertson a 3 year contract.
The main question I guess being....WHY?


It really makes no sense. This is not the path that should be taken. We need a 'power' forward not a flanker. We already have a heap of flankers.

[bornadog]

I just had a read of it. At almost 29 and with some knee issues this must be a bit of a gamble. I wonder if this is a ploy of his manager to get a sweeter deal from the Demons.
I see that we still have some interest in Ken McGregor as well.

The Age says Neil Craig is looking at trading McGregor and Perrie for a small forward. Not sure either one can be classified as a power forward, but McGregor can take a string contested mark but is very hit and miss.

[Mantis]

The Age says Neil Craig is looking at trading McGregor and Perrie for a small forward. Not sure either one can be classified as a power forward, but McGregor can take a string contested mark but is very hit and miss.

Would we be able to use Giansiracusa in this deal as he would fit the small forward player the Crows are looking for?

[Dry Rot]

It really makes no sense. This is not the path that should be taken. We need a 'power' forward not a flanker. We already have a heap of flankers.

Agreed - smacks of 2003/Rohde/desperation/quick fix to me.

Given our structural problems. I'd rather even Whitnall as a stop gap KP rather than Robertson.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Agreed - smacks of 2003/Rohde/desperation/quick fix to me.

Given our structural problems. I'd rather even Whitnall as a stop gap KP rather than Robertson.

I know what you are saying DR and this is not meant as a shot at you but:

I hate Whitnall and everything that he stands for, out of shape, unprofessional guy who has somewhat wasted his talent, or at least not put his best foot forward often enough, even when captain of the club

That said Russell Robertson doesn't necessarily fit the mould of a guy we need

[Dry Rot]

I know what you are saying DR and this is not meant as a shot at you but:

I hate Whitnall and everything that he stands for, out of shape, unprofessional guy who has somewhat wasted his talent, or at least not put his best foot forward often enough, even when captain of the club

That said Russell Robertson doesn't necessarily fit the mould of a guy we need

No probs, but it says a lot for us now that Whitnall is still a lot better than any tall forward we've got (Grant excepted, when he actually plays and does so up forward)

[The Underdog]

I'll qualify my comments by saying that Robbo is a sensational footballer who can kick goals, but apart from being not at all what we require, he's 29 in November and spent most of this year with a chronic knee injury. He's great to watch but he's not a long term solution.

I'd prefer McGregor from the standpoint that he's a little younger, and more in line with what we need, and probably cheaper too. I think we've got enough mid size guys to kick goals. We need a tall for them to work off and who can hold his own.

[LostDoggy]

I'll qualify my comments by saying that Robbo is a sensational footballer who can kick goals, but apart from being not at all what we require, he's 29 in November and spent most of this year with a chronic knee injury. He's great to watch but he's not a long term solution.

I'd prefer McGregor from the standpoint that he's a little younger, and more in line with what we need, and probably cheaper too. I think we've got enough mid size guys to kick goals. We need a tall for them to work off and who can hold his own.

Agree Underdog, but I think we need to ensure that we have more than 1 forward marking option.
If we get McGregor, I dont him to be the ONLY option. We need to make sure that we either keep developing Tiller or get another tall marking forward.
If we throw Johnno into the mix we would have a decent forward line.
Also, it is important that we develop or get a forward line crumber to take opportunities when the ball comes to ground from marking contests.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Agree Underdog, but I think we need to ensure that we have more than 1 forward marking option.
If we get McGregor, I dont him to be the ONLY option. We need to make sure that we either keep developing Tiller or get another tall marking forward.
If we throw Johnno into the mix we would have a decent forward line.
Also, it is important that we develop or get a forward line crumber to take opportunities when the ball comes to ground from marking contests.

Most of us agree that Robertson is a very good player - if we were to get him I wonder if the thinking would be to play Murphy at half back or on a wing

I am not sure that Whitnall would be in our side as I suspect Eade thinks he is too slow for modern footy - a bit the same way he felt Rawlings was too slow.

[Dry Rot]

Are we in the wrong time and place re trading this year?

Let me explain.

Rumours abound on BigHysteria, but let's they are true for the sake of the argument.

Ie McMahon and Ray want to return home and Gia is being shopped around. Likewise Judd, Jolly and Didak want to return to their respective home states.

I realise that there is always a market (NB demand) for KPPs and ruckmen and arguably we've always needed the former and now need the latter. But Saints, Carlton, us, Pies and now Swans need ruckmen, so competition will be great for proven options like Jolly or potential ones like Wood or Meesen.

Meanwhile, we'd hope to get fair value for McMahon but if the rumours are true, the Crows will focus on the Didak trade.

Seems to me that our needs and most of what we can offer (short of pick #5) may be swept aside if all the rumours above are true. If I'm right, the best hope lies with Ray, but I doubt we'll get a Freo or WCE first round pick for him, and I doubt that Haselby or Murphy are the answer for us.

Am I being pessimistic (remember all this is based on the assumption that the rumoured trades will mostly occur) or does trades like Judd and Didak offer us the possibility of some advantageous side deals?

[GVGjr]

Am I being pessimistic (remember all this is based on the assumption that the rumoured trades will mostly occur) or does trades like Judd and Didak offer us the possibility of some advantageous side deals?

Any players that we target from other clubs or players we offer other clubs as being available will pretty much stand on their merits.
If anything more players being shopped around and sort after is likely to bring in the possibility of 3 way trades.
The bigger names might be a bit of a distraction but once Judd makes his intentions known (within 5 days after West Coasts last game) it will probably set the scene of the trade week.

[bornadog]

I am not sure that Whitnall would be in our side as I suspect Eade thinks he is too slow for modern footy - a bit the same way he felt Rawlings was too slow.

Inside on Whitnall. Amazing what you learn about the personal side of players when you go away to places like Darwin. A couple of years ago when we played Carlton up there, I was in a pub with a few mates and so were a few of the Carlton boys including Lance. Most of the Carlton guys finished up about 1pm (we played that night ) and Lance stayed on. He was on his own and just hung around betting on the gee gees most of the afternoon. (as we did) Now nothing wrong with that, maybe he does that to unwind but it was just a bit strange. Read what you want into it.

For me, both Lance and Robbo are a bit old for what we should be going for. We have been there done that with so called power forwards.

[The Underdog]

Agree Underdog, but I think we need to ensure that we have more than 1 forward marking option.
If we get McGregor, I dont him to be the ONLY option. We need to make sure that we either keep developing Tiller or get another tall marking forward.
If we throw Johnno into the mix we would have a decent forward line.
Also, it is important that we develop or get a forward line crumber to take opportunities when the ball comes to ground from marking contests.

I agree we need more than one option, but I think someone like McGregor teamed with Tiller, Johnno, Murph and maybe Tommy Williams would work better than Robbo.
As I said I like Robbo and if he was 25 I'd be all for it, but I'm just not sure if this is the right move. Although I doubt it would happen anyway.
I'd prefer to do one or two player for player swaps and keep at least our first 3 draft picks.

[Go_Dogs]

What about Daniel Chick? He wasn't the worst last night, and could add some experience to us as a utility.

[LostDoggy]

I agree we need more than one option, but I think someone like McGregor teamed with Tiller, Johnno, Murph and maybe Tommy Williams would work better than Robbo.
As I said I like Robbo and if he was 25 I'd be all for it, but I'm just not sure if this is the right move. Although I doubt it would happen anyway.
I'd prefer to do one or two player for player swaps and keep at least our first 3 draft picks.

I wasnt for getting Robertson, I think hes too old & with his injury concerns means he could be another Rawlings.
If we were to get a McGregor, I hope everyone doesnt put too much on pressure on the guy, seeing him as a "saviour" of the forward line. We need to make sure we have other options to spread the load.

[southerncross]

This one is a bit interesting. I'm not sure why Freo would be interested and I think he would prefer us over the Tigers.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22420454-12428,00.html

ADELAIDE key position player Ken McGregor has asked to be traded, despite having a new contract offer from the Crows.
McGregor, 26, has told Adelaide he needs to explore opportunities at other AFL clubs after being restricted to just nine games this season.
Adelaide says McGregor has not indicated a preference for a trade. This suggests there has been no offer made to McGregor despite suggestions he is commanding the interest of Fremantle, the Western Bulldogs and Richmond.
Crows football operations manager John Reid last night said McGregor had not indicated if he would put himself in the lottery of the draft if a suitable trade cannot be arranged next month.
"Ken is not certain the past two years have presented all the opportunities he could have in AFL football so he wants to explore if there are better opportunities at another club," Reid said. "If that does not happen, our contract offer to Ken will stand.
"We have declared he is a required player. But with his being out of contract, he has the right to look elsewhere."
McGregor was drafted by Adelaide as a fifth-round draft pick in 1998 as a controversial choice in place of eventual Fremantle captain Matthew Pavlich, his team-mate at SANFL club Woodville-West Torrens.
Since his debut in 1999, he has played 145 AFL games.
McGregor's possible exit coincides with Adelaide coach Neil Craig seeking a key forward in the trade period.

[southerncross]

I wasnt for getting Robertson, I think hes too old & with his injury concerns means he could be another Rawlings.
If we were to get a McGregor, I hope everyone doesnt put too much on pressure on the guy, seeing him as a "saviour" of the forward line. We need to make sure we have other options to spread the load.

I'm lukewarm on him. It all depends on the asking price.

[Bulldog Revolution]

This one is a bit interesting. I'm not sure why Freo would be interested and I think he would prefer us over the Tigers.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22420454-12428,00.html

ADELAIDE key position player Ken McGregor has asked to be traded, despite having a new contract offer from the Crows.
McGregor, 26, has told Adelaide he needs to explore opportunities at other AFL clubs after being restricted to just nine games this season.
Adelaide says McGregor has not indicated a preference for a trade. This suggests there has been no offer made to McGregor despite suggestions he is commanding the interest of Fremantle, the Western Bulldogs and Richmond.
Crows football operations manager John Reid last night said McGregor had not indicated if he would put himself in the lottery of the draft if a suitable trade cannot be arranged next month.
"Ken is not certain the past two years have presented all the opportunities he could have in AFL football so he wants to explore if there are better opportunities at another club," Reid said. "If that does not happen, our contract offer to Ken will stand.
"We have declared he is a required player. But with his being out of contract, he has the right to look elsewhere."
McGregor was drafted by Adelaide as a fifth-round draft pick in 1998 as a controversial choice in place of eventual Fremantle captain Matthew Pavlich, his team-mate at SANFL club Woodville-West Torrens.
Since his debut in 1999, he has played 145 AFL games.
McGregor's possible exit coincides with Adelaide coach Neil Craig seeking a key forward in the trade period.

For any key position player surely we would be a desirable location with such a clear need and a young developing side

[MrMahatma]

McGregor isn't what we need. He's average at best. We'd be no better off with him in the team than playing Tiller at FF all season - Tiller has large scope for improvement where as McGregor is a batter, and at 26 is at his peak.

[Go_Dogs]

Just watched a bit of the SANFL finals today. Adam Thomson was good for Sturt, like his hardness. Deluca seems to have put on a lot of weight, but is still a fair way off being a #1 ruck in the AFL. Mattner is very poor with his decision making and disposal, dropping back a level and he doesn't dominate or appear to improve on either aspect. He did lay a few nice tackles, but was far from convincing.

Richard Douglas got better as the game went on, although wasn't overly impressive. Greg Bentley was pretty ordinary, and if I were basing his worth on todays game, he would certainly not be a player I was interested in. Sellar was fairly hopeless too, which was very pleasing to see.

McGregor is in action now.

[dog town]

Just my take on McGregor is that if we were to target him it certainly wouldn't be as a saviour. He is a work horse type who will just present all day and create a contest. Can get up the ground on the lead and will give you and honest contest every time but he is not a 50 goal plus forward.

Maybe they are targetting both Robertson and McGregor. Worth pointing out that one of the preliminary finalists has a forward line based around versatility and only really has one tall target at any one time and thats North with Drew Petrie who kicked 38 goals. Seven of the top nine goal kickers for the year came from teams who did not make the finals. The point is that we are after a balance and given that we have some pretty impressive small forwards already if you add a good hard working tall and another player who is very good overhead you are starting to create some problems. Could be what Eade and co are looking at. I think we have an underlying problem in our game plan which is a major issue anyway which I am going to make a thread about.

Just as a footnote I will say that I have always liked McGregor as a player even though I am aware of his limitations. Not sure he is a great fit for us but I wouldn't write him off completely he has played some good footy when fit.

[Go_Dogs]

He certainly isn't better than honest, but is probably better than most in Adelaide give him credit for. He's versatile, can play at either end. As you say, he's a work horse, and someone who will work hard to provide an option and a contest.

Another young lad who I liked the look of today was Ruory Kirkby who played for Glenelg. He's about 192cms, fairly athletic with a good set of hands, who looked fairly strong and worked hard most of the game. Easily outpointed James Sellar (who also played tall forward for Glenelg), but does have an extra year or 2 on him. Not sure if we'd even consider looking at someone like him, but I liked what I saw today. (First time I've seen the kid).

[dog town]

He certainly isn't better than honest, but is probably better than most in Adelaide give him credit for. He's versatile, can play at either end. As you say, he's a work horse, and someone who will work hard to provide an option and a contest.

Another young lad who I liked the look of today was Ruory Kirkby who played for Glenelg. He's about 192cms, fairly athletic with a good set of hands, who looked fairly strong and worked hard most of the game. Easily outpointed James Sellar (who also played tall forward for Glenelg), but does have an extra year or 2 on him. Not sure if we'd even consider looking at someone like him, but I liked what I saw today. (First time I've seen the kid).
I think it might have been Hawthorn that rookied Kirkby a couple of years back after he was a shock omission at the draft table. Had a good carnival for Vic Country from memory.

[dog town]

I suppose the other intangible with McGregor is whether the way the crows play the game has held him back. Most of the goals that the crows forwards get are from uncontested marks running back towards goal into space. The crows dont exactly set up in a way conducive to big key forwards. As I said in another thread I am not sure we are much better but the crows are horrible.

[Go_Dogs]

I think it might have been Hawthorn that rookied Kirkby a couple of years back after he was a shock omission at the draft table. Had a good carnival for Vic Country from memory.

Could he be a worthwhile option, in your opinion? As I said, I know very little about the lad, other than I thought he was pretty handy today.

[dog town]

Could he be a worthwhile option, in your opinion? As I said, I know very little about the lad, other than I thought he was pretty handy today.To be honest I have not seen him play since the 18s. The VFL and SAFL
are not used enough though IMO when it comes to picking up young talls. Sometimes guys are a bit to raw at draft time but they continue to develop in the second tier comps. Edwards was great for North last night and Westhoff is another obvious example.

[GVGjr]

Could he be a worthwhile option, in your opinion? As I said, I know very little about the lad, other than I thought he was pretty handy today.

He was an AA selection and had a great carnival but then showed up to draft camp and failed miserably. I have seen him a couple of times this year and he's been OK but I'm not convinced he has the work ethic thats needed.

[Go_Dogs]

His work ethic was pleasing today, worked hard to get to contests, presented well and generally was a pretty important part to the Glenelg forward line managing to win the game by a point.

Agree with you DT that the second tier comps are a good breeding ground for talls. I imagine Clayton, and a lot of AFL recruiters have been following it this year, given the success of both Westhoff and Edwards.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Kirkby kicked 5 last week as well but is another of those guys who seem to lack intensity. He just doesn't go at it very hard.

I think I'll pass.

[MrMahatma]

I think we need to do more than just use the normal drafting process as we currently do. Other teams are getting kids from Ireland and pulling smokies out of the lower grades to fill holes in their sides.

Hopefully these avenues will be fully explored by our recruiters in the future.

[Go_Dogs]

Kirkby kicked 5 last week as well but is another of those guys who seem to lack intensity. He just doesn't go at it very hard.

I think I'll pass.

He was named best on ground in the papers today.

[LostDog]

Power and 2nd rnd pick for Cameron Wood of Brisbane

Trade him now he has had to many chances

[LostDog]

I am gonna get shot for this

we need

Cameron Wood - Future Ruckman 6 - 8 years
Scott Mcgregor - Target Forward - 3 - 4 years left
Simon Godfrey - Hard Tagger - 5 years
Russel Roberston - key small foward 2 to 3 years left
Lance Whitnall - Key Forward - 2 to 3 years left

All gettable and possible to get the lot

[Sockeye Salmon]

I am gonna get shot for this

we need

Cameron Wood - Future Ruckman 6 - 8 years
Scott Mcgregor - Target Forward - 3 - 4 years left
Simon Godfrey - Hard Tagger - 5 years
Russel Roberston - key small foward 2 to 3 years left
Lance Whitnall - Key Forward - 2 to 3 years left

All gettable and possible to get the lot

You deserve to be shot for that.

Hope Scott McGregor is better than Ken McGregor - he's a hack!

[MrMahatma]

I am gonna get shot for this

we need

Cameron Wood - Future Ruckman 6 - 8 years
Scott Mcgregor - Target Forward - 3 - 4 years left
Simon Godfrey - Hard Tagger - 5 years
Russel Roberston - key small foward 2 to 3 years left
Lance Whitnall - Key Forward - 2 to 3 years left

All gettable and possible to get the lot

I'll counter that with -

Draft a KPP in the first round
Ruck in the 2nd round
Inside mid in 3rd & 4th round

Rookie a couple of older, but physically mature mids who play inside.

Don't trade a thing.

[mjp]

I am gonna get shot for this

we need

Cameron Wood - Future Ruckman 6 - 8 years
Scott Mcgregor - Target Forward - 3 - 4 years left
Simon Godfrey - Hard Tagger - 5 years
Russel Roberston - key small foward 2 to 3 years left
Lance Whitnall - Key Forward - 2 to 3 years left

All gettable and possible to get the lot


You wont get shot for suggesting Wood. You're idea of Power plus a second rounder wont get it done though.

The others are either mediocre (McGregor and Godfrey) or past their prime (Whitnall and Robbo) - why would we want players like that?

[southerncross]

A mate of mine who is a coterie member of the Blues thinks there is a good chance that if they land Judd then the Dogs will pick up Whitnall for either a 4 or 5th round draft selection or via the pre-season draft.
Basically they will look to cut wages like Whitnalls to accommodate Judd.
Would he be worth a late pick in a weak draft or should we just keep focused on the youth?

[DOG GOD]

or past their prime (Whitnall and Robbo) - why would we want players like that?

Can u please contact eade and TELL him mjp. PLEASE!!!!!

[The Underdog]

I wouldn't touch Whitnall with a ten foot pole, he's always injured or fat or both.
I'd prefer to trade players for players if we're going to do it and hold on to our picks, at least the first 3 rounds.
Robbo's got a little value, but he's not far off 30 with recent knee injuries and his spring is
a massively important part of his arsenal, so I don't think he's needed or worth it.

I just hope the Judd deal gets done early so the rest of trade week isn't hanging on it and nothing gets done until Friday 1.30.

[DOG GOD]

I just hope the Judd deal gets done early so the rest of trade week isn't hanging on it and nothing gets done until Friday 1.30.


unfortunately u could be right...it could be a fizzer as usual.

[southerncross]

Did anyone else watch the ABC 2 game last night? Callum Wilson from South Freo really impressed. 191cm and 89kg and only 19yo. He played as a forward last year and mainly in defence this year. Might be worth a rookie list spot as he's pretty decent in the air and on the ground and has skills.

[LostDog]

Looking at our potential Draftees last year before the draft

Geelong picked players we were looking at.

Tom Hawkins was just bad luck for every other club, Selwood well i would have taken him over gibbs any day.

we will bounce back and quick we have a great young brigade, the robbos,mcgregors,whitnalls will improve us short term enough time for a our stacks, hills,o'sheas to take us long term

[Sockeye Salmon]

Looking at our potential Draftees last year before the draft

Geelong picked players we were looking at.

Tom Hawkins was just bad luck for every other club, Selwood well i would have taken him over gibbs any day.

we will bounce back and quick we have a great young brigade, the robbos,mcgregors,whitnalls will improve us short term enough time for a our stacks, hills,o'sheas to take us long term

OMFG!!!

And it's plural. His brother as well?

[Go_Dogs]

Haha, I don't know what to say.

[LostDog]

was just a short term thought

remember a fella named
Ben Harrison
was regarded as washed up and finished,

[Raw Toast]

remember a fella named
Ben Harrison
was regarded as washed up and finished,

Happy to have you on board LD but don't mention the war:)

[Twodogs]

was just a short term thought

remember a fella named
Ben Harrison
was regarded as washed up and finished,



Must. Resist. Urge.

[Twodogs]

OMFG!!!

And it's plural. His brother as well?



Sister in law. She's going to add a bit of mongrel.

[Mantis]

Must. Resist. Urge.

We haven't been the same team since we got rid of Harrison, he was one of my favourite's.:D

[Sockeye Salmon]

Must. Resist. Urge.

Commentary:

"And Harrison turns onto his left foot, still turning actually, still turning. OK, nearly turned now. He'll be on that left foot any minute."

[The Underdog]

was just a short term thought

remember a fella named
Ben Harrison
was regarded as washed up and finished,

If not washed up, then he was awfully clean.
Still he won all those games for us...oh hang on

[Twodogs]

Commentary:

"And Harrison turns onto his left foot, still turning actually, still turning. OK, nearly turned now. He'll be on that left foot any minute."



"We might just go for an ad, and see how he's going when we get back."

[Go_Dogs]

Just signed off on my first trade in the BF Trade Week.

Dogs -> Hudson, #28
Crows -> Boyd.

Got a few others in the works too, which, if I may say so myself, I'm quite happy with how they're looking.

[LostDoggy]

Just signed off on my first trade in the BF Trade Week.

Dogs -> Hudson, #28
Crows -> Boyd.

Got a few others in the works too, which, if I may say so myself, I'm quite happy with how they're looking.

I think we need Boydy, what would have happened this year when Cross and Westy were out? But that's my problem, I think that all of our boys are 'required players' as we call them.

[Go_Dogs]

I think we need Boydy, what would have happened this year when Cross and Westy were out? But that's my problem, I think that all of our boys are 'required players' as we call them.

No question, I rate Boyd pretty damn highly myself. Given I have both West and Cross ahead of him still(disposals hit the targets more often, play similar roles), and I'm keen for Cooney/Griffen/Higgins/Hahn to play more midfield football, he was the expendable one. Obviously a hypothetical; if I'd gone in with the 'required players' mentality, I don't think I'd be signing off on many, if any trades.

IRL, I'd be more than happy for us to keep Boyd.

[Dry Rot]

Must. Resist. Urge.

Go on - reveal all to WOOF.

Harro was Twodogs favourite player.

[LostDoggy]

No question, I rate Boyd pretty damn highly myself. Given I have both West and Cross ahead of him still(disposals hit the targets more often, play similar roles), and I'm keen for Cooney/Griffen/Higgins/Hahn to play more midfield football, he was the expendable one. Obviously a hypothetical; if I'd gone in with the 'required players' mentality, I don't think I'd be signing off on many, if any trades.

IRL, I'd be more than happy for us to keep Boyd.

Yeah, I understand that, I've got my fingers crossed for Hahn especially, I feel so sorry for him for the last 2 years. I still think Boydy's worth more than a 28 year old plus a late second pick, well, I just don't want to see any of my top 5 get traded...oh well.

[bornadog]

No question, I rate Boyd pretty damn highly myself. Given I have both West and Cross ahead of him still(disposals hit the targets more often, play similar roles), and I'm keen for Cooney/Griffen/Higgins/Hahn to play more midfield football, he was the expendable one. Obviously a hypothetical; if I'd gone in with the 'required players' mentality, I don't think I'd be signing off on many, if any trades.

IRL, I'd be more than happy for us to keep Boyd.

Boyd will win the Sutton Medal this year.

[Go_Dogs]

My second trade has just been completed:

Dogs - Reid, Buchanan and #46
Pies - #5, Ray and #28

Please, critique me.

bornadog - agree that Boyd will win the B'n'F this season.

[FrediKanoute]

A little high for mine. WOuld have been happy with 5 for Reid and may be Buchanan for 3rd rounder, but I think you've under sold Ray a little.

[Go_Dogs]

I agree. I got worked over a little bit;
The logic was that Reid, #46 = #5, #28. Ray = Buchanan.

I rate Buchanan pretty highly, and think he's a decent player, but ideally it would have been just a simple downgrade of third round pick for us, rather than giving up the second 2nd round pick we got.

[Twodogs]

Go on - reveal all to WOOF.

Harro was Twodogs favourite player.


Haha. My favorite player to abuse maybe.

[Dry Rot]

Dunno if this has been posted, but I saw in a 2 day old newspaper that Lloyd actually said that Ryder and Gumbleton are up for trade re Judd.

IIRC there's one or two WA lads in the draft WA would be keen on - if we were involved re pick #5 would we want either? Which is the better player?

[Raw Toast]

Dunno if this has been posted, but I saw in a 2 day old newspaper that Lloyd actually said that Ryder and Gumbleton are up for trade re Judd.

IIRC there's one or two WA lads in the draft WA would be keen on - if we were involved re pick #5 would we want either? Which is the better player?

Just Lloyd spouting rubbish and he was immediately shouted down by the CEO - we would definitely like one. My preference would be for Ryder who can ruck and MJP reckons would've gone around #1 had his skin been a bit lighter in colour. That said Gumbleton is a highly rated forward from the most recent super-draft.

[bulldogtragic]

Would be happy to part with 5 for ryder or Gumbo.

[GVGjr]

Would be happy to part with 5 for ryder or Gumbo.

I'd guess that we would have no shot in getting them

[LostDoggy]

Would we do the unthinkable and trade our second round selection for Robertson and our third round selection for Hudson?
If so would it really make us a genuine contender?

[The Coon Dog]

Would we do the unthinkable and trade our second round selection for Robertson and our third round selection for Hudson?
If so would it really make us a genuine contender?

I sincerely hope not. I don't mind if we trade for Hudson, but as much as I like Robbo, I don't think he offers us alot.

[LostDoggy]

I sincerely hope not. I don't mind if we trade for Hudson, but as much as I like Robbo, I don't think he offers us alot.

Plus it could send us back a bit in the future if we're stuck with very few players, if any, for an entire's season draft. Isn't that one of Carlton's problems at the moment, where they lost all of their picks and are paying for it now?

[LostDoggy]

I sincerely hope not. I don't mind if we trade for Hudson, but as much as I like Robbo, I don't think he offers us alot.

Both players seem keen to come to us and I'm not sure why but I think the club might be interested in helping that along. Given we had such a poor season I wonder if the need for a quick fix might make for a potentially poor decision.

[Twodogs]

Would we do the unthinkable and trade our second round selection for Robertson and our third round selection for Hudson?
If so would it really make us a genuine contender?




I assume we will trade players for picks and picks for players and come out if it with selections where we want them.

[LostDoggy]

I assume we will trade players for picks and picks for players and come out if it with selections where we want them.

I wouldn't want to lose second and third round selections in what is regarded as a weak draft unless we got players that would make a big difference.

[DOG GOD]

have a VERY sick feeling about this trade period.

[LostDoggy]

have a VERY sick feeling about this trade period.

What do you think might eventuate?

[Dry Rot]

have a VERY sick feeling about this trade period.

So do I.

The ghost of Peter Rohde.....

[Mofra]

Robertson, Hudson, Ken McGregor....

... all linked to the Bulldogs. Either way I can't see us having a round 2 selection

[Twodogs]

Eade was fairly non commital about Robertson, McGregor wasnt discussed at all and I missed what they said about Hudson on SEN tonight.




He also said they talked midseason to Judd's manager about players that might be available. It seemed to be more of an informantion and making a point of contact exercise rather than about a specific player.
But Matt McGuire is a Paul Connors client...

[Sockeye Salmon]

Plus it could send us back a bit in the future if we're stuck with very few players, if any, for an entire's season draft. Isn't that one of Carlton's problems at the moment, where they lost all of their picks and are paying for it now?

Don't believe it, DG38.

Carlton have been using that as an excuse for years. They had bottomed out majorly before the draft picks were taken off them. They made the grand final in 99 after being smashed by Brisbane by 12 goals in the first week (and then got a home final v WCE thanks to the stupid '1 final a week at the MCG' rule).

They held on to players who were finished for too long, wasted first round picks on duds like Vance and Livingstone (and traded another in Massie to the Crows).

Carlton's situation is no-one's fault but Carlton's.

[Dry Rot]

Don't believe it, DG38.

Carlton have been using that as an excuse for years. They had bottomed out majorly before the draft picks were taken off them. They made the grand final in 99 after being smashed by Brisbane by 12 goals in the first week (and then got a home final v WCE thanks to the stupid '1 final a week at the MCG' rule).

They held on to players who were finished for too long, wasted first round picks on duds like Vance and Livingstone (and traded another in Massie to the Crows).

Carlton's situation is no-one's fault but Carlton's.

Bet you enjoyed typing that.

Bugger them.

[LostDoggy]

Don't believe it, DG38.

Carlton have been using that as an excuse for years. They had bottomed out majorly before the draft picks were taken off them. They made the grand final in 99 after being smashed by Brisbane by 12 goals in the first week (and then got a home final v WCE thanks to the stupid '1 final a week at the MCG' rule).

They held on to players who were finished for too long, wasted first round picks on duds like Vance and Livingstone (and traded another in Massie to the Crows).

Carlton's situation is no-one's fault but Carlton's.

Oh, OK then..thanks for that, I thought it might have cost them a bit anyway, but they did bring it upon themselves regardless.

[LostDoggy]

Bet you enjoyed typing that.

Bugger them.

And I enjoyed reading it.
You don't know how much the football landscape here in Melbourne has changed since Carlton became crap.
Arrogance and Carlton went hand in hand, nows its 'we are shit'.
Its beautiful.

[Sockeye Salmon]

And I enjoyed reading it.
You don't know how much the football landscape here in Melbourne has changed since Carlton became crap.
Arrogance and Carlton went hand in hand, nows its 'we are shit'.
Its beautiful.

Carlton's problem (with their administration/football dept) was that they didn't know how to survive. For a century they bought whatever they wanted (or simply took it from someone else). The draft and salary cap arrived and their chequebook became useless - and they were stuffed because they didn't know any other way.

[LostDoggy]

Carlton's problem (with their administration/football dept) was that they didn't know how to survive. For a century they bought whatever they wanted (or simply took it from someone else). The draft and salary cap arrived and their chequebook became useless - and they were stuffed because they didn't know any other way.
My heart bleeds for them.
Meanwhile any chance they get they tell us about how many flags they won and how tragic our history is.
The problem was were weren't as good at cheating(VFL era) nor did we have as much money.

[LostDoggy]

I saw Rocket on the Fox sports show "before the bounce" last night and he was queried about Fev and how there is a rumor going around about how we have already met with him. His answer was silence, which was interesting, but then they moved onto Ben Hudson and Rocket appeared fairly happy with the fact that we are likely to get him when other teams are searching for a ready made ruck, and that we just have to come to terms with the crows on a trade.

[MrMahatma]

I saw Rocket on the Fox sports show "before the bounce" last night and he was queried about Fev and how there is a rumor going around about how we have already met with him. His answer was silence, which was interesting, but then they moved onto Ben Hudson and Rocket appeared fairly happy with the fact that we are likely to get him when other teams are searching for a ready made ruck, and that we just have to come to terms with the crows on a trade.

I don't doubt that we'd meet with Fev. I think it'd be worth doing, but it's more the price the Blues would want for Fev that becomes the sticking point.

IMO we'll keep our first rounder and do some pick trading to get Hudson and maybe another ready made player, but mostly draft this year.

Any word on Rookie elevations yet?

I'm pretty confident Eade won't do anything stupid over trade week - although one comment I read from Smorgon about us needing to make the 8 next year did have me a little worried that Eade had been given 'notice' about making the 8 - which can lead to stupid moves at the trade table.

It's always good when trade week is over. Funny thing is, it should be an exciting week where us supporters look forward to new players who can improve our team, but because of past indiscretions, we all FEAR the week and the repercussions of stupid trading.

[macca]

Here is one left field for a young key forward:

Luke vogels: 24 years old, can't get a came because hall and loughlin are ahead of them. He is just a back up player. Maybe in the position where teddy richards was with essendon.
He could be a good short-term solution(2-3 years) as the doggies look to rebuild a long term forward line, around tiller.

Luke Jericho: big bodied player, with heaps of upside .22 years old can't get a game because of guys Ian perrie and burton on their list. May have limited opportunity with hentschel and emergency of nick gill next year. Could be worth a punt.

Robertson deal smells of rawlings all over again. Kicks lots of goals because he gets the 2nd or third best defender. The rawlings deal costs us dearly and set us back years. Not only we gave up pick 6 ( which essendon took Kepler - jury is still out on him) but it prevented the club from having full host of rookies. WE have been pretty luck with rookies unearthing- morris, boyd and harbrow. I like harbrow, he has lots of skill, hard at it and has some defensive pressure.

Didn't the doggies originally have robertson about 10 years ago and we let him go because he was competing with paul hudson for a spot ?

Daniel Chick to teach some of the young defenders some hardness. Give him a 2 year contract, 1 year to play and another year to coach them. In His second year, I don't care if he only plays 5 games.

Ray has had a terrible year, and I think he should be put on notice. It will be interesting to see who we pickup in this years draft. Here are my guesstimates:


first round: big bodied forward/ruckman
second round: inside mid-fielder who is a tough nut
third round - defender who is a good kick and strong mark. Potential to turn into a pinch hitting forward
fourth round: smokey. Clayton has a history of taking a punt on last pick, and picking up a player a year earlier than he should be because he "might" go higher in the following years draft. Harris and O'shea are classic examples.

Rookies: more key position players.

[dog town]

Anyone seen many Geelong VFL games this year? A young guy by the name of Todd Grima kicked more than 50 goals this year which is pretty impressive for a 19 year old. Grima is the guy who kicked a big bag for Tasmania in the National Champs a few years back. He is actually on Geelongs rookie list and has been for 2 years but I am not sure if the cats will elevate him as they have 2 other guys also pushing hard to be promoted. Might be worth us having a look and doing a Baird type scenario.

[LostDog]

Anyone seen many Geelong VFL games this year? A young guy by the name of Todd Grima kicked more than 50 goals this year which is pretty impressive for a 19 year old. Grima is the guy who kicked a big bag for Tasmania in the National Champs a few years back. He is actually on Geelongs rookie list and has been for 2 years but I am not sure if the cats will elevate him as they have 2 other guys also pushing hard to be promoted. Might be worth us having a look and doing a Baird type scenario.

Yeah i have seen Todd at local level here in Tas a few years ago, special player

there is another big Tassie player to that swipes players away like a tall fat kid at auskick, by the name of Adam Derbyshire plays with Tassie Devils and Dominates the No1 comp here, he could have easily kicked 150 goals plus in the state comp had he played all year.
i have mentioned him before as a target