Owaat

[stefoid]

Guy at the office said Monty put up his hand and said 'our game plan is 3 years out of date, they have us worked out, and we are implementing steps now to change it"

If we are learning a new game plan this year, we also need to work out who will be playing that game plan next year -- and play those guys.

The pre-season starts now.

Can anyone who saw the show comment?

[G-Mo77]

Didn't see it. The long weekend put me out of whack and I forgot all of the footy shows were on last night. I even missed Neighbours. :o

[Sockeye Salmon]

Monty also gave Lake a massive spray.

Basically said we've rested him, cuddled him, told him he was wonderful but now it's time he HTFU and deal with it.

[G-Mo77]

Monty also gave Lake a massive spray.

Basically said we've rested him, cuddled him, told him he was wonderful but now it's time he HTFU and deal with it.

It's a wonder the papers haven't got it slapped across their pages. Anything to do with Lake seems to get the media in a frenzy.

[Desipura]

Monty also gave Lake a massive spray.

Basically said we've rested him, cuddled him, told him he was wonderful but now it's time he HTFU and deal with it.

I read that and was extremely worried if true. What example is that sending to the rest of the group?
"If you are as good as me, you can get away with anything"

[stefoid]

Its not the Lake comments Im concerned with so much as the admission that we shat the whole year down the dunny with a dud gameplan. I mean its obvious, but yeah.

[LongWait]

Guy at the office said Monty put up his hand and said 'our game plan is 3 years out of date, they have us worked out, and we are implementing steps now to change it"

If we are learning a new game plan this year, we also need to work out who will be playing that game plan next year -- and play those guys.

The pre-season starts now.

Can anyone who saw the show comment?

Monty's statement was pretty much what you have said Stefoid: our game plan can't stand up to the press - we have been found out - game plan is out of date - we are trying to change the game plan this season but it is hard.

[G-Mo77]

Its not the Lake comments Im concerned with so much as the admission that we shat the whole year down the dunny with a dud gameplan. I mean its obvious, but yeah.

That's pretty disappointing but as you said glaringly obvious. Game plans have moved forward and we're using the same one we did years ago. This is an argument I've heard on Eade in the past and it's a legitimate argument that works against him signing on for 2012. He's got another 12 weeks to work something out though so there is plenty of time.

[LostDoggy]

Yes , I caught some of the audio from Monty last night , basically the Club and the Coaches have given Brian some targets he should be reaching now in regards to his fitness and output/ intensity on the field , his recent groin injury may have hampered his return to full fitness but he needs to work harder , he needs to play himself into form by lifting his output/ intensity on the field , he's a highly paid senior player and they want some effort/ output till the end of the season then he can have a Full Pre-Season

In regards to the game plan , the message was loud and clear , the fast quick ball movement game plan that got us into the finals three years straight just does,nt cut it against the current defensive zones and presses , we have been found out and we have been unable to respond/ regroup , the fact that we have had injuries to key players has affected out ability to remould the game plan but that should,nt be an excuse we are not good enough and lots of work is needed

Mr Monty is very blunt and I like that

.

[Prince Imperial]

I asked Monty earlier in the year at a club function in Canberra and after the Collingwood game why we did not employ a tighter defensive press like they did. He agreed that we should and that they were developing it but it was difficult to get players to commit to it (i.e. be prepared to leave their man and zone). He commented that we were the last "one on one" team and that we had to change. I thought he was pretty impressive at that function with his insights into on field issues at both an individual (including re Lake) and team level.

[BulldogBelle]

Monty's statement was pretty much what you have said Stefoid: our game plan can't stand up to the press - we have been found out - game plan is out of date - we are trying to change the game plan this season but it is hard.



It takes a big man to admit he’s wrong; It takes a bigger man to do something about it


This is something that will seriously hurt Rocket at the end of this season unfortunately for him

[Jasper]

It takes a big man to admit he’s wrong; It takes a bigger man to do something about it


This is something that will seriously hurt Rocket at the end of this season unfortunately for him

Is it unfortanate that Monty is out in media admitting Rocket's screw ups? Or is Monty positioning himself for a top job?

[Dry Rot]

In regards to the game plan , the message was loud and clear , the fast quick ball movement game plan that got us into the finals three years straight just does,nt cut it against the current defensive zones and presses , we have been found out and we have been unable to respond/ regroup , the fact that we have had injuries to key players has affected out ability to remould the game plan but that should,nt be an excuse we are not good enough and lots of work is needed

.

After two years of pretty successful Saints defensive pressure (09 & 10) and then the Pies' winning defensive game in 2010 what were we doing last pre-season?

Practising our fast quick ball movement game plan?

Ridiculous situation.

[bornadog]

I asked Monty earlier in the year at a club function in Canberra and after the Collingwood game why we did not employ a tighter defensive press like they did. He agreed that we should and that they were developing it but it was difficult to get players to commit to it (i.e. be prepared to leave their man and zone). He commented that we were the last "one on one" team and that we had to change. I thought he was pretty impressive at that function with his insights into on field issues at both an individual (including re Lake) and team level.

The forward press isnot easy to implement, just ask West Coast how long they have been trying.

[Dry Rot]

Monty's statement was pretty much what you have said Stefoid: our game plan can't stand up to the press - we have been found out - game plan is out of date - we are trying to change the game plan this season but it is hard.

Bombers and West Coast have had a good crack at this, this season.

Maybe they practised in the pre-season?

And maybe their respective coaches don't tolerate players not following instructions?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

After two years of pretty successful Saints defensive pressure (09 & 10) and then the Pies' winning defensive game in 2010 what were we doing last pre-season?

Practising our fast quick ball movement game plan?

Ridiculous situation.

+10000

surely the powers that be knew our game plan was dud at the end of last season. It was blatenly obvious. The fact we are talking about this now at Round 13 is ridiculous and very concerning. The buck stops with Eade but the whole coaching panel is responsible too. I think if we get a new coach it has to come from outside the club. Hopefully Eade and co can turn it around though. Surely don't need an entire offseason to develop a game plan. Have a look at the pies and adjust based on our crop of players. Yes we may get smashed but as long as there is improvement and an indication the game plan is changing then i'll be happy and more confident with 2012

[Greystache]

After two years of pretty successful Saints defensive pressure (09 & 10) and then the Pies' winning defensive game in 2010 what were we doing last pre-season?

Practising our fast quick ball movement game plan?

Ridiculous situation.

That's exactly what we practiced. Working the ball through congestion with chains of handball, then run and carrying through the corridor. It was staggering to watch, I thought I'd stepped back in time.

[Greystache]

The forward press isnot easy to implement, just ask West Coast how long they have been trying.

Essendon made massive improvements in one preseason after having had a coach that didn't bother with defence for 3 years. Surely our coaching group should've been able to see the direction the game was heading in. Either they didn't, or they don't have the ability to teach the players how to learn a new game plan.

Either way the result is the same, the team finishes near the bottom and the coaching group is replaced.

[mjp]

Essendon made massive improvements in one preseason after having had a coach that didn't bother with defence for 3 years.

How are Essendon going right now? West Coast will happily tell you that their press has been a work in progress for a couple of years.

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment - pressing is not that difficult - but without knowing what the pre-season program involved I will say that the press is also something you need to be careful with.

1/.If you over practice the press (really an extended zone in many ways), you will end up in a zone all day as the ball is continually kicked over your head.
2/.If one player misses his assignment - well, the whole thing falls apart.
3/.When you aren't going 'well', players will go into self preservation mode (not conducive with a whole team zone).

I heard Monty's comments and was pretty surprised - seemed to be talking way out of school to me...and besides which, acknowledging in June when you have only won 3 games that the gameplan isn't cutting it isn't exactly the news of the world. It was 'tough talk' or 'straight talk' or whatever but aside from stating the obvious and making the entire coaching panel (especially the head coach) sound 'dumb' I am not sure what the point of it was.

[Jasper]

I heard Monty's comments and was pretty surprised - seemed to be talking way out of school to me...and besides which, acknowledging in June when you have only won 3 games that the gameplan isn't cutting it isn't exactly the news of the world. It was 'tough talk' or 'straight talk' or whatever but aside from stating the obvious and making the entire coaching panel (especially the head coach) sound 'dumb' I am not sure what the point of it was.

This

I have not been Rocket's biggest fan over the last year or so, but Monty's comments smacked of disloyalty. If anyone is to admit a mistake publicly it should be the Rocket or those above him - not Rocket's staff. Ordinary. I also think the public criticism of Lake by the club has been pretty ordinary as well.

[Dry Rot]

That's exactly what we practiced. Working the ball through congestion with chains of handball, then run and carrying through the corridor. It was staggering to watch, I thought I'd stepped back in time.


The best construction you could put on it was it might have countered the press if we had the best skills, accuracy and cool heads under pressure.

But we don't.

Also begs the question of what was anticipated to happen when we turned it over and it just pinged straight out.

[Dry Rot]

+10000

surely the powers that be knew our game plan was dud at the end of last season. It was blatenly obvious. The fact we are talking about this now at Round 13 is ridiculous and very concerning. The buck stops with Eade but the whole coaching panel is responsible too. I think if we get a new coach it has to come from outside the club. Hopefully Eade and co can turn it around though. Surely don't need an entire offseason to develop a game plan. Have a look at the pies and adjust based on our crop of players. Yes we may get smashed but as long as there is improvement and an indication the game plan is changing then i'll be happy and more confident with 2012

Why has it taken half a season for them realise this?

[Dry Rot]

This

I have not been Rocket's biggest fan over the last year or so, but Monty's comments smacked of disloyalty. If anyone is to admit a mistake publicly it should be the Rocket or those above him - not Rocket's staff. Ordinary. I also think the public criticism of Lake by the club has been pretty ordinary as well.

Agreed.

There are many pieces being exposed of a jigsaw of an unhappy little club at many levels.

Some of Akers' comments from last season may be worth reviewing.

[LostDoggy]

What mjp said.

Also, it's not as if our game plan was created out of nothing -- the moment Rocket got to the club 7 years ago after the Rohde debacle he started the whole group learning the man-on-man game (through plenty of growing pains), and then built an entire play-on-at-all-costs ethos and philosophy on top of it it that got us to three prelims in such an even era that premiership teams (West Coast, Hawthorn) can fall out of the eight from one year to the next. It is also arguable that our philosophy and ethos (and its widespread adoption by many other teams) led to Hawthorn's zone and eventually to St. Kilda and Collingwood's press. If it took Hawthorn 3 years to create a defensive zone as a counter to an attacking gameplan, and St.Kilda and Collingwood considerably longer than that to their respective strategies, why the surprise that it may take an established list a while to make wholesale changes to what has been a largely successful gameplan? It's not as simple as simply making changes, it's creating a sustainable gameplan -- Essendon and West Coast were bottom 4 last year and had pretty much nothing to lose.

Everyone acknowledges Rocket is a better coach now than when he started -- if he was able to build that list into the competitive unit it was when he was a lesser coach, logic suggests that he should be given an opportunity to at least have a decent crack with this new-ish list. He may well fail, but he's as good a candidate as any available to try -- way too early to make this call. Worsfold was a wooden-spooner as recently as last year: if he was a Dog he would have been lynched by our supporters.

ps. Brisbane won their first 5 games under Vossy too, and I said that Essendon will pretty much go the same way. If they don't it will be because at least Hirdy has Bomber to fall back on.

[LostDoggy]

This

I have not been Rocket's biggest fan over the last year or so, but Monty's comments smacked of disloyalty. If anyone is to admit a mistake publicly it should be the Rocket or those above him - not Rocket's staff. Ordinary. I also think the public criticism of Lake by the club has been pretty ordinary as well.

This,

Agree that the comments are not helpful.
Given what Chris Grant has said, it may have moved the goal posts a bit. If in fact Rocket falls on his sword, the assistants may be lining up for the chance to show what they can do.
May be misdirected, but Monty probably wants supporters to know he is going change things on the field (if he gets a chance).

[LongWait]

The forward press isnot easy to implement, just ask West Coast how long they have been trying.

Begs the question "why are we the last to the party?"

A number of media commentators, analysts and even humble posters on internet forums have been calling for a change to our game plan for eigtheen months or more.

[Greystache]

How are Essendon going right now? West Coast will happily tell you that their press has been a work in progress for a couple of years.

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment - pressing is not that difficult - but without knowing what the pre-season program involved I will say that the press is also something you need to be careful with.

1/.If you over practice the press (really an extended zone in many ways), you will end up in a zone all day as the ball is continually kicked over your head.
2/.If one player misses his assignment - well, the whole thing falls apart.
3/.When you aren't going 'well', players will go into self preservation mode (not conducive with a whole team zone).

I heard Monty's comments and was pretty surprised - seemed to be talking way out of school to me...and besides which, acknowledging in June when you have only won 3 games that the gameplan isn't cutting it isn't exactly the news of the world. It was 'tough talk' or 'straight talk' or whatever but aside from stating the obvious and making the entire coaching panel (especially the head coach) sound 'dumb' I am not sure what the point of it was.

This is the fourth season a zone in one form or another is being employed, how many years does it take for us to be able to get out players to learn it? Why are so many clubs so much more advanced in their game plan than we are?

I agree you can get bogged down in your zone if you're not careful, or if you're struggling, we've seen that with St Kilda, but we've also had an entire season of watching Collingwood manage the process. It's not even as if we have to create a new method, the blue print was already there, we either couldn't, or didn't want to change which is just baffling.

The idea that play on at all costs, and run the ball through the corridor with speed and skills was going to be successful this year us redicilous, as a group we're as slow as any team going around, and under the pressure of the press our skills are appalling. With the skill set of our team we should have been looking to be an ultra defensive team that squeezes the life out of teams and turns the game into a grind. That type of game plan would at least have suited our make up.

[bornadog]

.

Some of Akers' comments from last season may be worth reviewing.

DR, Aker is the biggest wanker in the AFL, why the hell would we be revisiting his dumb ass comments.

[The Pie Man]

Begs the question "why are we the last to the party?"

A number of media commentators, analysts and even humble posters on internet forums have been calling for a change to our game plan for eigtheen months or more.

I'd have to watch the game again (which I have no intention of doing really) to know for sure, but our forward pressure in the 09 prelim for memory was first class. Especially the first quarter, we seemed to have the ball locked in our forward half, causing turnovers...

.....if only we'd kicked straight...

Point being, I believe we've employed similar press style tactics before

[bornadog]

I'd have to watch the game again (which I have no intention of doing really) to know for sure, but our forward pressure in the 09 prelim for memory was first class. Especially the first quarter, we seemed to have the ball locked in our forward half, causing turnovers...

.....if only we'd kicked straight...

Point being, I believe we've employed similar press style tactics before

We were in the top three for goals against last year.

I also thought we did well with our press last Friday against the Saints, other than a few turnovers that resulted in goals and made the difference at the end of the night.

[Dry Rot]

DR, Aker is the biggest wanker in the AFL, why the hell would we be revisiting his dumb ass comments.

Don't disagree, but I think he's like Mark Latham ie in amongst the bile and madness there is some truth.

[Grantysghost]

Video here - scroll to about 10 minutes 50 in (after the ads at the start)

One week at a time 13/06 (http://one.com.au/video-catch-up-tv-online.htm?movideo_p=44213)

[the banker]

Finally we recognise the elephant in the room.

[LostDoggy]

Didn't see it. The long weekend put me out of whack and I forgot all of the footy shows were on last night. I even missed Neighbours. :o

I am hoping that is meant to be humour GMO

[G-Mo77]

I am hoping that is meant to be humour GMO

Yeah that's what it was, humor..........

:)

[LostDoggy]

I heard Monty's comments and was pretty surprised - seemed to be talking way out of school to me...and besides which, acknowledging in June when you have only won 3 games that the gameplan isn't cutting it isn't exactly the news of the world. It was 'tough talk' or 'straight talk' or whatever but aside from stating the obvious and making the entire coaching panel (especially the head coach) sound 'dumb' I am not sure what the point of it was.

I was also very disappointed to read about Monty's comments on this forum. I didnt see the program last night but find it very disloyal to the coach be saying such things openly.

Surely he wouldnt be doing this to make a play for the job?

[LostDoggy]

What mjp said.

Also, it's not as if our game plan was created out of nothing -- the moment Rocket got to the club 7 years ago after the Rohde debacle he started the whole group learning the man-on-man game (through plenty of growing pains), and then built an entire play-on-at-all-costs ethos and philosophy on top of it it that got us to three prelims in such an even era that premiership teams (West Coast, Hawthorn) can fall out of the eight from one year to the next. It is also arguable that our philosophy and ethos (and its widespread adoption by many other teams) led to Hawthorn's zone and eventually to St. Kilda and Collingwood's press. If it took Hawthorn 3 years to create a defensive zone as a counter to an attacking gameplan, and St.Kilda and Collingwood considerably longer than that to their respective strategies, why the surprise that it may take an established list a while to make wholesale changes to what has been a largely successful gameplan? It's not as simple as simply making changes, it's creating a sustainable gameplan -- Essendon and West Coast were bottom 4 last year and had pretty much nothing to lose.

Everyone acknowledges Rocket is a better coach now than when he started -- if he was able to build that list into the competitive unit it was when he was a lesser coach, logic suggests that he should be given an opportunity to at least have a decent crack with this new-ish list. He may well fail, but he's as good a candidate as any available to try -- way too early to make this call. Worsfold was a wooden-spooner as recently as last year: if he was a Dog he would have been lynched by our supporters.

ps. Brisbane won their first 5 games under Vossy too, and I said that Essendon will pretty much go the same way. If they don't it will be because at least Hirdy has Bomber to fall back on.

Totally agree with both yourself and mjp. If I see one more supporter ask why we don't press, "I'll spew up!" ;)

It is too late to start trying to replicate a defensive press - in both recruiting the right players, and teaching the right skills, we're years behind the pack. What we need to be doing is working out how to beat it, better it or enhance it, so that we can be riding the wave of the next trend in tactics rather than chasing it.

For mine, I hate the way footy is played at the moment. Every player on the ground within ten metres of the ball just leads to ugly, ugly football.

A team will come along with a game plan to beat it. Maybe it will be to kick long to tall marking targets, and maintain a decent structure across the ground whilst standing up to a press. Maybe it'll be something else. But they'll start to win games, and plenty of them, and then the trend will cycle around. Let's hope that we're that team. Rocket, with his tactical nous, is the best man for the job of seeing that become reality. I don't want to be the sheep. Let's be the wolf.

[Greystache]

It is too late to start trying to replicate a defensive press - in both recruiting the right players, and teaching the right skills, we're years behind the pack.


Rocket, with his tactical nous, is the best man for the job of seeing that become reality.

Surely you must realise these two statements are an oxymoron?

[Topdog]

I also thought we did well with our press last Friday against the Saints, other than a few turnovers that resulted in goals and made the difference at the end of the night.

As did I.

[Greystache]

We were in the top three for goals against last year.

I also thought we did well with our press last Friday against the Saints, other than a few turnovers that resulted in goals and made the difference at the end of the night.


As did I.

I don't have the stats on me, but didn't we have 2 tackles in our forward 50 for the whole game?

[LostDoggy]

I don't have the stats on me, but didn't we have 2 tackles in our forward 50 for the whole game?

Western Bulldogs 7 tackles in the Forward 50
St Kilda 10 tackles in the Forward 50

Western Bulldogs Inside 50's 42
St Kilda Inside 50's 45

So we were able to match them there

Western Bulldogs Clangers 68
St Kilda Clangers 50

You make too many mistakes you lose the game

.

[boydogs]

It was 'tough talk' or 'straight talk' or whatever but aside from stating the obvious and making the entire coaching panel (especially the head coach) sound 'dumb' I am not sure what the point of it was.

For the first time in a while, the club is treating its supporters with respect and communicating with them to tell them what is happening with the team's performance.

It's not always about smoke & mirrors, and trying to get one over your opponents. I didn't watch the show last night as I expected the usual tripe that barely scratches the surface, but I'm glad we are being forthright on our plight & it makes me more inclined to get behind the existing coaching group than want to turf them out.

The purposefully uneducated media and fans have been calling for blood, owning up to flaws and indicating a new direction is being pursued garners a lot more respect than defending & deflecting, and giving frustrated fans nothing to explain our disappointing results.

[Before I Die]

What mjp said.

Also, it's not as if our game plan was created out of nothing -- the moment Rocket got to the club 7 years ago after the Rohde debacle he started the whole group learning the man-on-man game (through plenty of growing pains), and then built an entire play-on-at-all-costs ethos and philosophy on top of it it that got us to three prelims in such an even era that premiership teams (West Coast, Hawthorn) can fall out of the eight from one year to the next. It is also arguable that our philosophy and ethos (and its widespread adoption by many other teams) led to Hawthorn's zone and eventually to St. Kilda and Collingwood's press. If it took Hawthorn 3 years to create a defensive zone as a counter to an attacking gameplan, and St.Kilda and Collingwood considerably longer than that to their respective strategies, why the surprise that it may take an established list a while to make wholesale changes to what has been a largely successful gameplan? It's not as simple as simply making changes, it's creating a sustainable gameplan -- Essendon and West Coast were bottom 4 last year and had pretty much nothing to lose.

Everyone acknowledges Rocket is a better coach now than when he started -- if he was able to build that list into the competitive unit it was when he was a lesser coach, logic suggests that he should be given an opportunity to at least have a decent crack with this new-ish list. He may well fail, but he's as good a candidate as any available to try -- way too early to make this call. Worsfold was a wooden-spooner as recently as last year: if he was a Dog he would have been lynched by our supporters.

ps. Brisbane won their first 5 games under Vossy too, and I said that Essendon will pretty much go the same way. If they don't it will be because at least Hirdy has Bomber to fall back on.

Excellent post Lantern and a much needed contribution.

We have finished third three years in a row. At the start of this season the Age football experts had us as favourites for the flag. Why wouldn't we continue to practice a proven game plan. Yes we had fallen short in 2010, that's why we tried to bring in some pace through trading.

Ubfortunately it didn't work, and apparently this was always obvious to a number of posters. Everyone is a genius with hindsight. Now the call is to emulate Collingwoods press. Apparently this is easy to do. Funny how none of their other copycats are given any real chance of actually knocking them off this year. Still, I guess it is better to copy them and lose as opposed to trying a different approach and losing.


But the copycats are beating us, so something has to change and this has now been acknowledged publicly. There is half a season to go, let's see what changes then make decisions regarding coaches' and player's careers.

[anfo27]

Don't have a problem with Montys comments.

I find it hard to believe that only now the penny has finally dropped. This admission has to spell the end of rockets reign, this is unacceptable. I do not want a coach in charge of my team that after 3 years can not find a game plan to beat the press and is too stubborn to admit he needs to change it until it's blatantly obvious to blind freddie that it ain't working. As the man in charge he needs to see it happening before anyone and frankly there have been a few posters on here who could see the writing on the wall at least a year ago.

I just can't get my head around that we are the LAST team to be playing this dinosaur brand of football.

Maybe i'm over reacting because i'm not a rocket fan.

[anfo27]

Excellent post Lantern and a much needed contribution.

We have finished third three years in a row. At the start of this season the Age football experts had us as favourites for the flag. Why wouldn't we continue to practice a proven game plan. Yes we had fallen short in 2010, that's why we tried to bring in some pace through trading.

Ubfortunately it didn't work, and apparently this was always obvious to a number of posters. Everyone is a genius with hindsight. Now the call is to emulate Collingwoods press. Apparently this is easy to do. Funny how none of their other copycats are given any real chance of actually knocking them off this year. Still, I guess it is better to copy them and lose as opposed to trying a different approach and losing.


But the copycats are beating us, so something has to change and this has now been acknowledged publicly. There is half a season to go, let's see what changes then make decisions regarding coaches' and player's careers.

A bit late to be bringing in pace when we have been one of the slowest teams going round for some time now. Can't have a coach who makes the right decision way too late.
Under no circumstances should rocket be there next year.

[kruder]

I feel sick after the gameplan commnets. There is no way in the world Eade and his coaching staff will be at the club next year.

[Dry Rot]

We have finished third three years in a row.

Last year we were the fourth best team at best. Already the cracks were showing, despite Bazza's 80 goals.




Why wouldn't we continue to practice a proven game plan. Yes we had fallen short in 2010, that's why we tried to bring in some pace through trading.



That game plan was a flat track bully's plan ie we rarely beat the best teams with it. It was worth a shot given the cattle Eade had, but never looked like winning a flag.




Ubfortunately it didn't work, and apparently this was always obvious to a number of posters. Everyone is a genius with hindsight. Now the call is to emulate Collingwoods press. Apparently this is easy to do.

Not hindsight for some of us. And Eade has two seasons to ponder saints and then Pies defensive pressure. I'm proud of our defence, but for ages the forwards and midfield have let them down.

All the season our game plan has looked crap from the very start and only now their trying to change it mid season with half a team of rookies?

Spare me.


Funny how none of their other copycats are given any real chance of actually knocking them off this year. Still, I guess it is better to copy them and lose as opposed to trying a different approach and losing.



They'll probably be playing in September and we won't.

[Dry Rot]

I feel sick after the gameplan commnets. There is no way in the world Eade and his coaching staff will be at the club next year.

On the face of it I'd have to agree.

I was really up for getting Eade to us and haven't been one asking for his head.

But I think the time has come. I don't understand why there's so much apparent support for him aside from laudable loyalty.

[LostDoggy]

For the people willing to put Rocket and the coaching staff in a wooden box and wish them Bon Voyage as you throw them into the Maribyrnong River just consider that in order for a game plan/ tactical plan to take shape pre-season you need to have a stable list , and that is something we did not have. We have not had a stable team from Round 1, injuries to key players have made it a necessary evil to make it a week by week tactical plan. We have been forced to rotate younger players through the side , our tactical plans have been based on what the players already knew not what they needed to know because of the instability . Long term we will reap the benefits of having the younger players like Libba, Wallis , Howard etc getting game time now , they will have a benchmark of what is needed to keep their place in the 22 before getting another pre-season then emerging ready take on 2012. Although season 2011 so far is hard to take , sometimes adversity can make a Club stronger

I,ve got enough faith and belief in Rocket and the coaching staff that we have a platform to fight our way up to 9th or 8th , now if that has,nt happened by seasons end by all means drag your wooden box to the Maribyrnong River but I won't be there to help you

.

[ledge]

I think Monty is way over the top with the 3 years comments, we have been in a prelim the last 3 years!
My take on it is THIS year our game plan has fallen apart due to exactly what West Dog has just posted.
Okay maybe we do need a new gameplan but its only because of this years struggle and results.
The last 3 years have been very good but there comes a time when a team gets older, players retire and the team needs new blood, Its blokes like Hill and Grant who should be performing at the best level now but they arent.

[LostDoggy]

For the people willing to put Rocket and the coaching staff in a wooden box and wish them Bon Voyage as you throw them into the Maribyrnong River just consider that in order for a game plan/ tactical plan to take shape pre-season you need to have a stable list , and that is something we did not have. We have not had a stable team from Round 1, injuries to key players have made it a necessary evil to make it a week by week tactical plan. We have been forced to rotate younger players through the side , our tactical plans have been based on what the players already knew not what they needed to know because of the instability . Long term we will reap the benefits of having the younger players like Libba, Wallis , Howard etc getting game time now , they will have a benchmark of what is needed to keep their place in the 22 before getting another pre-season then emerging ready take on 2012. Although season 2011 so far is hard to take , sometimes adversity can make a Club stronger

I,ve got enough faith and belief in Rocket and the coaching staff that we have a platform to fight our way up to 9th or 8th , now if that has,nt happened by seasons end by all means drag your wooden box to the Maribyrnong River but I won't be there to help you

Too true West Dog - an honest and sensible post about where we are at! It's hard sometimes to see the woods for the trees, when emotions carry us away. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Eade made the decision himself to leave next year, but I don't think he will be pushed.

[w3design]

Yeah that's what it was, humor..........

:)

So you actually got to see Neighbours then?

[w3design]

For the people willing to put Rocket and the coaching staff in a wooden box and wish them Bon Voyage as you throw them into the Maribyrnong River just consider that in order for a game plan/ tactical plan to take shape pre-season you need to have a stable list , and that is something we did not have. We have not had a stable team from Round 1, injuries to key players have made it a necessary evil to make it a week by week tactical plan. We have been forced to rotate younger players through the side , our tactical plans have been based on what the players already knew not what they needed to know because of the instability . Long term we will reap the benefits of having the younger players like Libba, Wallis , Howard etc getting game time now , they will have a benchmark of what is needed to keep their place in the 22 before getting another pre-season then emerging ready take on 2012. Although season 2011 so far is hard to take , sometimes adversity can make a Club stronger

I,ve got enough faith and belief in Rocket and the coaching staff that we have a platform to fight our way up to 9th or 8th , now if that has,nt happened by seasons end by all means drag your wooden box to the Maribyrnong River but I won't be there to help you

.

I agree with this WD. We are sorely missing Lake, Hargrave, Cooney and Hall. I'm sorry but talking about gameplan is really a moot point when you look at the key injuries we've had this year. Things I would like reviewed are injury management, general fitness and the alarming drop off in skills we've seen over two seasons.

Lake and Hargrave missing from our backline with the defection of Harbrow has stripped our backs of coherence and confidence, Cooney missing from our midfield robs us of one of the players who can actually hit a target. Hall missing robs us of about 30 goals and puts pressure on the rest of our forwards each of whom is matched up on a defender who is better than they otherwise would have been (this goes for the other injuries as well). These injuries place increased pressure on the remaining players and, as we've seen, they've gradually crumpled under the weight. I would have hoped our association with Vic Uni and our new facilities would have helped us with rehab and injury management but it appears to have not been the case.

Our foot skills have been pretty bad this year and we have gone back to the 1 metre handballs that we so often saw in the Rohde years. The skills drop off has been coming for a couple of seasons now and can only be a product of how we train, not nearly enough skill development must be occurring at training.

[stefoid]

I agree with this WD. We are sorely missing Lake, Hargrave, Cooney and Hall. I'm sorry but talking about gameplan is really a moot point when you look at the key injuries we've had this year. Things I would like reviewed are injury management, general fitness and the alarming drop off in skills we've seen over two seasons.



No, you dont drop from consistent top 4 to bottom 4 because of some injuries. We have been woeful all over. Absolutely woeful.

I dont think its that our skills have dropped off, its that the pressure has increased. Its almost impossible to get a pressure free disposal the way we are playing, and we aren't sufficiently pressuring the opposition to return the favour.

Think about this as a basic thing - if we have been playing 1:1, while the opposition has been occupying space, it means when we get a turnover, our players start close to their man and they have to try to get away from him to get an unpressured disposal, while the opposition players are already in space.

Like it or not, a zone defence is simply more efficient. They banned it in basketball in the US -- too boringly effective.

[Ghost Dog]

No, you dont drop from consistent top 4 to bottom 4 because of some injuries. We have been woeful all over. Absolutely woeful.

I dont think its that our skills have dropped off, its that the pressure has increased. Its almost impossible to get a pressure free disposal the way we are playing, and we aren't sufficiently pressuring the opposition to return the favour.

Think about this as a basic thing - if we have been playing 1:1, while the opposition has been occupying space, it means when we get a turnover, our players start close to their man and they have to try to get away from him to get an unpressured disposal, while the opposition players are already in space.

Like it or not, a zone defence is simply more efficient. They banned it in basketball in the US -- too boringly effective.

Really? Interesting, I'm not a fan of NBA, so could you talk about this a bit?

[G-Mo77]

Really? Interesting, I'm not a fan of NBA, so could you talk about this a bit?

You are aloud to zone in the NBA now previously the rule was that a defensive player must be at a certain distance from an opponent and was called Illegal Defense. Basically they couldn't stand in space by themselves. They have an defensive lane violation now which stops a player guarding the key and clogging the lane.

I doubt it could be enforced in the AFL, there are far to many players on the field. It was hard enough to monitor with 10 players on teh court.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You are aloud to zone in the NBA now previously the rule was that a defensive player must be at a certain distance from an opponent and was called Illegal Defense. Basically they couldn't stand in space by themselves. They have an defensive lane violation now which stops a player guarding the key and clogging the lane.


This is correct. Zoning is NOT banned. Don't know where that came from.

The AFL, like most things, is lagging behind in strategic deelopment compared with the elite sports overseas. It has only been the last decade that we have seen well developed and thought out strategy's and structures. The dogs unfortunately seem to be well behind the ball here. Injuries are one thing but this is a complete capitulation and there were definately signs of this last year that our game plan wasn't up to it. We couldn't beat a top team and now the teams below us have adjusted and closed the gap

[G-Mo77]

This is correct. Zoning is NOT banned. Don't know where that came from.

It was banned for quite a long time and abolished around 2000 - 2002. I actually liked the Illegal Defence when it was around but like most sporting leagues around the world Offence sells so everything is changed to give an offensive player an easier time.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It was banned for quite a long time and abolished around 2000 - 2002. I actually liked the Illegal Defence when it was around but like most sporting leagues around the world Offence sells so everything is changed to give an offensive player an easier time.

Yes sorry i thought it was meant that the zoning IS banned in the NBA.

It was abolished in 2001. In fact the entire existence of the NBA prior to then had the zone banned but it was a little misguided. It was to prevent the centre from just camping in the lane which is now prevented through the defensive 3-sec rule. These days there are rarely 100% zones with so many good permiter shooters. And whilst they do try to sell offense, defense wins championships so a good balance is often met. The AFL is going that way just now. We have seen the saints completely obliterate the game with defense and slowing everything into a bore and having success doing it. The AFL is now changing the rules to prevent this and we see the balance forming

[anfo27]

nothing changes when it comes to die hard supporters. No matter what happens in a season people always point to injuries and i'm sick to death of it. We were crap last year and that was down to injuries, the year before it was Cooney or Murphy or someone else was injured why we lost but never because we are not good enough or never because our gameplan is not good enough.
Eade has not been able to adapt his game plan with the times. He showed that time and again last year and his tactics against the pies in that first final is a classic example. Our performance in round 1 against a team that finished bottom 4 and has had 1 pre season to learn a new style was nothing short of disgusting. How can someone be in charge of a team on damn good money, have all summer to prepare and get humiliated like that.
We need to stop making excuses and we can not accept inept coaching.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

nothing changes when it comes to die hard supporters. No matter what happens in a season people always point to injuries and i'm sick to death of it. We were crap last year and that was down to injuries, the year before it was Cooney or Murphy or someone else was injured why we lost but never because we are not good enough or never because our gameplan is not good enough.
Eade has not been able to adapt his game plan with the times. He showed that time and again last year and his tactics against the pies in that first final is a classic example. Our performance in round 1 against a team that finished bottom 4 and has had 1 pre season to learn a new style was nothing short of disgusting. How can someone be in charge of a team on damn good money, have all summer to prepare and get humiliated like that.
We need to stop making excuses and we can not accept inept coaching.

+1

Exactly right. I mean Essendon had a complete new coaching staff and managed to do a complete 180 on their game plan. How can we not realise it and do the same?? It is baffling to me

[Cyberdoggie]

Worsfold was a wooden-spooner as recently as last year: if he was a Dog he would have been lynched by our supporters.



Helps when you win a premiership, I guess if rocket had done the same in the 3 years years we were PFist's, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think he's wearing this heavy baggage at the moment, and it will just get heavier unless we can accept he is the right man for the job. I'm still undecided, and how we perform in certain areas for the rest of the year will help me make up my mind. I wasn't shattered we lost to the saints because i think we tried hard and the endeavour was there, the previously too games however were not what i want to see.

[stefoid]

It was banned for quite a long time and abolished around 2000 - 2002. I actually liked the Illegal Defence when it was around but like most sporting leagues around the world Offence sells so everything is changed to give an offensive player an easier time.

OK, so Im a little out of touch with NBA. Did you guys know that Michael Jordan retired too? Michael Jackson will be peeved, because he was his favourite player.

But anyway, yes, even previous cellar dwellers like Essendon and the Illeagles are having significant results with more or less the same lists, whilst our gameplan is also having a significant result with the same list -- in the opposite direction. could anyone possibly argue with that?

The rest of the season and the preseason needs to be aimed squarely at perfecting a new better gameplan so we can burst out of the blocks next year.

[w3design]

No, you dont drop from consistent top 4 to bottom 4 because of some injuries. We have been woeful all over. Absolutely woeful.

I dont think its that our skills have dropped off, its that the pressure has increased. Its almost impossible to get a pressure free disposal the way we are playing, and we aren't sufficiently pressuring the opposition to return the favour.

Think about this as a basic thing - if we have been playing 1:1, while the opposition has been occupying space, it means when we get a turnover, our players start close to their man and they have to try to get away from him to get an unpressured disposal, while the opposition players are already in space.

Like it or not, a zone defence is simply more efficient. They banned it in basketball in the US -- too boringly effective.

Yes, you do. With injuries to key players and, more importantly, key players in key positions team structure quickly falls down. It's well documented that our older players have dropped off quickly and our younger players haven't come on as much as we would have liked (expected/ demanded), this is partly a product of these injuries. Another product of the injuries is an inability to implement our gameplan (any gameplan at the moment), we just don't have the cattle.

Our skills have dropped off, in goal and field kicking. Our most productive midfielders can't hit the side of a barn under pressure or not and our forwards have woeful set ups when kicking for goal (when they get a chance). What do they practice at training? What supervision do they get at training? Where is the pride in their workmanship?

One way to counter the press and counter the lack of leg speed is to move the ball quickly and accurately by foot and provide protection for the ball carrier to allow them the space to implement that. We haven't done that for many years, despite our relative success, hence our ongoing failure against the top teams. Players also have to link up through gut running by hitting their target and then following the play up to provide a lateral or forward link in the chain, too many times this year we've seen our players ball watch. They dispose of the ball and then walk or jog without any purpose. This hurts us two ways, we lose offensive drive and if the ball is turned over (which happens more often than not, they haven't worked hard enough to guard space and the ball gets kicked over their heads. Neither of these are new things, I agree, but I would argue that our skills HAVE dropped off. In our best win this year against Brisbane we spent almost the entire first quarter looking like we'd never played football before, a better side would have put us to the sword. We ended up beating them by a large margin but I would argue that we were only incrementally 20 point a quarter than them. Brisbane were terrible and the 78 point margin wasn't the belting that the score line indicated. In this game we repeatedly turned the ball over under little or no pressure.

I agree the press is very effective but it can be beaten by hard work, we just haven't worked hard enough this year. I don't disagree you on the point about us being woeful either, we have been.

[LostDoggy]

Helps when you win a premiership, I guess if rocket had done the same in the 3 years years we were PFist's, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think he's wearing this heavy baggage at the moment, and it will just get heavier unless we can accept he is the right man for the job. I'm still undecided, and how we perform in certain areas for the rest of the year will help me make up my mind. I wasn't shattered we lost to the saints because i think we tried hard and the endeavour was there, the previously too games however were not what i want to see.

Well, all that means is that we're far too premiership-centric as Dogs fans. I know it's only natural, of course, being as success-starved as we've been, but seriously, a lot has to go right to snag one, so it can't be the only measure of a successful coach -- Paul Roos snagged one but then spent the rest of his career in 5th and 6th spot and is still considered a gun coach. Malthouse has won one in ten years with the most cashed-up and mollycoddled club in the land. Sheedy won 4 in 25 years. 25 years!

I'm afraid that our desperation will lead us to make precisely the wrong kind of decisions for a smaller club -- stability has been the best thing for us in the last decade, I'm not a Rocket syncophant, but it's like people forget how easy it is to just fall back to being consistently in the bottom 4 and be in the wilderness (Port and Brisbane have won premierships in the last decade but are consistent bottom dwellers now, WC was for the last few years as well), and I'm not willing to simply mortgage our future on blind hope that anything different must automatically be better. People just throw away the consecutive top 4 finishes like it's nothing -- it's the only time we've ever done it as a club, and a fantastic platform for our future, not a 'failure' like it is in so many eyes, which is, I have to say, an incredibly immature and short-term position to take. (Of course the losses were disappointing, I was bloody beside myself after some of them, but that's in the immediate aftermath. A longer-term analysis calls for a cooler head.)

ps. and for anyone to call Rocket 'inept' must be f**king kidding. If he leaves the club he will be on most other clubs' shortlists in some capacity. If his time with us is up, it's up -- there is a natural lifecycle to these things -- but to eat our own the way we do disappoints me greatly and makes me ashamed to be a Dogs fan.

pps. FFS, I just watched the Saints - Dogs game. If anyone thinks that the 'gameplan' was the main problem in a game featuring two teams with the most out-of-form players in the land they don't understand sport.

[Greystache]

Well, all that means is that we're far too premiership-centric as Dogs fans. I know it's only natural, of course, being as success-starved as we've been, but seriously, a lot has to go right to snag one, so it can't be the only measure of a successful coach -- Paul Roos snagged one but then spent the rest of his career in 5th and 6th spot and is still considered a gun coach. Malthouse has won one in ten years with the most cashed-up and mollycoddled club in the land. Sheedy won 4 in 25 years. 25 years!

The difference is every one of those coaches made Grand Finals outside of winning premierships during those years. There's only two teams that can win the flag each year and they're the ones playing in the GF. It's been 15 years since Eade got a team into a Grand Final, and his record in finals against top four teams with us is 0-7. Eade's record over a very long period of time indicates he's consistently struggled to beat the best teams.

[LostDoggy]

Well, all that means is that we're far too premiership-centric as Dogs fans. I know it's only natural, of course, being as success-starved as we've been, but seriously, a lot has to go right to snag one, so it can't be the only measure of a successful coach -- Paul Roos snagged one but then spent the rest of his career in 5th and 6th spot and is still considered a gun coach. Malthouse has won one in ten years with the most cashed-up and mollycoddled club in the land. Sheedy won 4 in 25 years. 25 years!

I'm afraid that our desperation will lead us to make precisely the wrong kind of decisions for a smaller club -- stability has been the best thing for us in the last decade, I'm not a Rocket syncophant, but it's like people forget how easy it is to just fall back to being consistently in the bottom 4 and be in the wilderness (Port and Brisbane have won premierships in the last decade but are consistent bottom dwellers now, WC was for the last few years as well), and I'm not willing to simply mortgage our future on blind hope that anything different must automatically be better. People just throw away the consecutive top 4 finishes like it's nothing -- it's the only time we've ever done it as a club, and a fantastic platform for our future, not a 'failure' like it is in so many eyes, which is, I have to say, an incredibly immature and short-term position to take. (Of course the losses were disappointing, I was bloody beside myself after some of them, but that's in the immediate aftermath. A longer-term analysis calls for a cooler head.)

ps. and for anyone to call Rocket 'inept' must be f**king kidding. If he leaves the club he will be on most other clubs' shortlists in some capacity. If his time with us is up, it's up -- there is a natural lifecycle to these things -- but to eat our own the way we do disappoints me greatly and makes me ashamed to be a Dogs fan.

pps. FFS, I just watched the Saints - Dogs game. If anyone thinks that the 'gameplan' was the main problem in a game featuring two teams with the most out-of-form players in the land they don't understand sport.

We'll thats one every 6 years for Sheedy on average not too bad..

Lantern, I don't think anyone is seriously saying anything different must automatically be better. Rocket may be the best fit for us moving forward and if after a thorough review we choose stick with him that will be ok by me. ( To be honest it is possibly the calibre of our assistants that worry me more than Rocket himself).
But, he has some serious questions to answer in relation to our gameplan. You could see last year that if we just rolled out our same old 2010 formula again in 2011 we were going to be in for a very dissapointing year. It was obvious last year our gameplan was tired and if a fat pot smoking muso like me who has never played a day of sport in his life can see this coming then it is very frustrating to say the least.
I'm not sure many on here are eating their own as you say and you shouldn't be ashamed to be a dogs fan. Most of the contributions on here have been fairly balanced ...people are just frustrated because it was obvious that this was a problem and we appear to have been sitting on our hands.

And for those saying imitating the press now would probably be too little too late, I agree and would prefer to be ahead of the curve rather than behind it - Rocket has innovated before and I always had confidence he could do it again but this has to be
questioned now as it seems he has had his head in the sand over the summer.

[Ghost Dog]

We'll thats one every 6 years for Sheedy on average not too bad..

Lantern, I don't think anyone is seriously saying anything different must automatically be better. Rocket may be the best fit for us moving forward and if after a thorough review we choose stick with him that will be ok by me. ( To be honest it is possibly the calibre of our assistants that worry me more than Rocket himself).
But, he has some serious questions to answer in relation to our gameplan. You could see last year that if we just rolled out our same old 2010 formula again in 2011 we were going to be in for a very dissapointing year. It was obvious last year our gameplan was tired and if a fat pot smoking muso like me who has never played a day of sport in his life can see this coming then it is very frustrating to say the least.
I'm not sure many on here are eating their own as you say and you shouldn't be ashamed to be a dogs fan. Most of the contributions on here have been fairly balanced ...people are just frustrated because it was obvious that this was a problem and we appear to have been sitting on our hands.

And for those saying imitating the press now would probably be too little too late, I agree and would prefer to be ahead of the curve rather than behind it - Rocket has innovated before and I always had confidence he could do it again but this has to be
questioned now as it seems he has had his head in the sand over the summer.


Frank - very well said.

[anfo27]

Well, all that means is that we're far too premiership-centric as Dogs fans. I know it's only natural, of course, being as success-starved as we've been, but seriously, a lot has to go right to snag one, so it can't be the only measure of a successful coach -- Paul Roos snagged one but then spent the rest of his career in 5th and 6th spot and is still considered a gun coach. Malthouse has won one in ten years with the most cashed-up and mollycoddled club in the land. Sheedy won 4 in 25 years. 25 years!

I'm afraid that our desperation will lead us to make precisely the wrong kind of decisions for a smaller club -- stability has been the best thing for us in the last decade, I'm not a Rocket syncophant, but it's like people forget how easy it is to just fall back to being consistently in the bottom 4 and be in the wilderness (Port and Brisbane have won premierships in the last decade but are consistent bottom dwellers now, WC was for the last few years as well), and I'm not willing to simply mortgage our future on blind hope that anything different must automatically be better. People just throw away the consecutive top 4 finishes like it's nothing -- it's the only time we've ever done it as a club, and a fantastic platform for our future, not a 'failure' like it is in so many eyes, which is, I have to say, an incredibly immature and short-term position to take. (Of course the losses were disappointing, I was bloody beside myself after some of them, but that's in the immediate aftermath. A longer-term analysis calls for a cooler head.)

ps. and for anyone to call Rocket 'inept' must be f**king kidding. If he leaves the club he will be on most other clubs' shortlists in some capacity. If his time with us is up, it's up -- there is a natural lifecycle to these things -- but to eat our own the way we do disappoints me greatly and makes me ashamed to be a Dogs fan.

pps. FFS, I just watched the Saints - Dogs game. If anyone thinks that the 'gameplan' was the main problem in a game featuring two teams with the most out-of-form players in the land they don't understand sport.

Are we suppose to be content with that? Yeah sure we haven't had success in a long time but 3 top 4 finishes in consecutive years means nothing if you can't get past a prelim. Eade has been good enough to get us this far but clearly is not good enough to take us further.

I don't want a coach who is the last person to change with the times, i want someone who is going to be the first. What will happen when the next trend comes in? will he wait 3 years before he concedes he needs to change? he doesn't deserve another chance to find out.

I don't know what you call it Lantern but to be ambushed by a average team after being shown their blue print on tv for 4 continuous weeks and still have no clue on match day is inept. We should have lost by 100 points FFS. The players looked like they were playing aliens from outer space who have come here with a brand new style that had never been seen before.

[Remi Moses]

Look I'll go on record as saying Rocket's been good.
The thing I find alarming is that the players aren't following instructions(handballing through the press) There seems a lack of effort , several times this year, lack of confidence ( looks like the players are playing hot potato with the ball) The failure to either penetrate the press or implement it is damming for Rocket and the coaching staff. We don't take the game on and look rudderless. Might be time to freshen the joint up.

[Topdog]

Are we suppose to be content with that? Yeah sure we haven't had success in a long time but 3 top 4 finishes in consecutive years means nothing if you can't get past a prelim. Eade has been good enough to get us this far but clearly is not good enough to take us further.

I don't want a coach who is the last person to change with the times, i want someone who is going to be the first. What will happen when the next trend comes in? will he wait 3 years before he concedes he needs to change? he doesn't deserve another chance to find out.

I don't know what you call it Lantern but to be ambushed by a average team after being shown their blue print on tv for 4 continuous weeks and still have no clue on match day is inept. We should have lost by 100 points FFS. The players looked like they were playing aliens from outer space who have come here with a brand new style that had never been seen before.

Well actually unlike other coaches Eade attempts to start the trends. Quick and simple question for you. Do you believe our game plan is 3 years too old?

[LostDoggy]

So you actually got to see Neighbours then?

Here you go Gmo.

http://images.tvrage.com/shows/5/4634.jpg

[FrediKanoute]

I think Monty is way over the top with the 3 years comments, we have been in a prelim the last 3 years!
My take on it is THIS year our game plan has fallen apart due to exactly what West Dog has just posted.
Okay maybe we do need a new gameplan but its only because of this years struggle and results.
The last 3 years have been very good but there comes a time when a team gets older, players retire and the team needs new blood, Its blokes like Hill and Grant who should be performing at the best level now but they arent.

I'm prepared to cut Grant some slack and put it down to 2nd year Blues. He established himselflast year and caught many by surprise. This season was always going to be tougher....Bazza's decline hasn't helped either.

[FrediKanoute]

The difference is every one of those coaches made Grand Finals outside of winning premierships during those years. There's only two teams that can win the flag each year and they're the ones playing in the GF. It's been 15 years since Eade got a team into a Grand Final, and his record in finals against top four teams with us is 0-7. Eade's record over a very long period of time indicates he's consistently struggled to beat the best teams.

I have to disagree. I think some blame needs to be laid fairly and squarely at the feet of the players for the finals losses. If I take the 3 Prelim's....the first against Geelong we should have put them to be before half time.....poor kicking for goal killed us. Eade's plan worked, we had the opportunities the players just muffed their lines.

The following year against the Saints, again not converting the possession we had into goals and the Reidwolt being gifted one at a critical stage was all tht was between the two sides. I doubt Eade could have done any more.

Last year. Tactically he got it spot on against the Saints, again we missed critical shots on goal in the 1st half when we had the chance to bury them. How is that Eade's fault?

[anfo27]

Well actually unlike other coaches Eade attempts to start the trends. Quick and simple question for you. Do you believe our game plan is 3 years too old?

3 years is a stretch but it was obvious last year that our run & carry style was not working against the press particularly when we don't have much run to begin with.

I was quite annoyed in the pre season that whenever I heard or red about rocket he was always moaning about the new sub rule. I didn't hear any other coaches talk about it as much as him, not a good look.

Eade has been very good for us in his time here but his last 18 months he has made far too many errors and I'm no longer confident he is the man to make some hard decisions & reshape this group so we can go again.

Do you think he is still the best man for the job?

[AndrewP6]

I was quite annoyed in the pre season that whenever I heard or red about rocket he was always moaning about the new sub rule. I didn't hear any other coaches talk about it as much as him, not a good look.

He has been critical, but also said that it could help us - OK, that prediction hasn't really come to fruition, but...;)

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2011/westernbulldogsnewsfeatures/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/109434/default.aspx


Eade has been very good for us in his time here but his last 18 months he has made far too many errors and I'm no longer confident he is the man to make some hard decisions & reshape this group so we can go again.

Do you think he is still the best man for the job?


I, for one, think so.

[anfo27]

He has been critical, but also said that it could help us - OK, that prediction hasn't really come to fruition, but...;)

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2011/westernbulldogsnewsfeatures/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/109434/default.aspx


[/B]

I, for one, think so.

really? why?

[LostDoggy]

Are we suppose to be content with that? Yeah sure we haven't had success in a long time but 3 top 4 finishes in consecutive years means nothing if you can't get past a prelim. Eade has been good enough to get us this far but clearly is not good enough to take us further.

I don't want a coach who is the last person to change with the times, i want someone who is going to be the first. What will happen when the next trend comes in? will he wait 3 years before he concedes he needs to change? he doesn't deserve another chance to find out.

I don't know what you call it Lantern but to be ambushed by a average team after being shown their blue print on tv for 4 continuous weeks and still have no clue on match day is inept. We should have lost by 100 points FFS. The players looked like they were playing aliens from outer space who have come here with a brand new style that had never been seen before.

It 'means nothing'? Geez you may as well stop watching football now because I have news for you -- we haven't won the premiership in quite a while so by your own measure your entire Dogs watching life has been meaningless. Also, if we get rid of Rocket, no matter who we get next year -- and this includes Malthouse, Roos etc. -- we may win it in 2 years, but we could just as easily not win the flag for another 10 years, or 20 years, so be prepared for a lot more 'meaningless' seasons.

Here's another -- and I would suggest the mature -- way of looking at it: no other coach in the history of the Dogs has EVER done what Rocket did in the last 5 years. We are so success-starved that we can't even see it for what it is -- a great platform and a giant leap forward for our club (which has spent most of its existence dwelling in the cellar, as recently as in the early 2000s). Premierships are crucial, but they are NOT everything: North won a few in the 90s (on the back of the best CHF ever), where are they now as a club? I would prefer a stable, growing club with a strong culture that regularly challenges for a flag, and we are far closer to that vision now than we were 7 years ago, and some credit where it is due may be closer to the mark than this uneducated ranting. If his time has come, like I said previously, fine -- all coaches and all coaching gigs all have a natural shelf-life, but the ridiculous disrespect by people who have achieved nothing in football towards a fantastic coach who has been by-and-large wonderful for our club is disheartening -- and it baffles me how people who have a superficial understanding of the game can call a proven coach 'inept'. To be discouraged by his performance this season is one thing, to start throwing perjorative terms around is ludicrous.

ps. The same posters who are potting the gameplan also complain unknowingly about all the changes we've made this year (longer kicks to the boundary etc.) -- if you think we're playing the same gameplan that we've been the last few years we are not watching the same game. The changes are not all working, but I've said this in another post: Rocket has been tinkering as much this year as ever. Just because he's struggled doesn't mean he's been standing still.

[anfo27]

-playing players that are injured.
-sticking with the same players when their form does not warrant it.
-the whole Brad Johnson affair. We all love Brad but rocket gets paid to make the tough decisions and he refused to acknowledge that Brad was a liability. The eagles left out woosha a premiership hero for a final because Malthouse thought it was the best decision for the team.
-inability to improve our forward line pressure
-inability to improve our tackling
-acknowledging that we lack pace at trade week when it was obvious to everyone on here we lacked pace for a couple of years.
-inability to find a way to beat Colingwoods & the saints press as well as every other team now.
-having a team in a professional competition unprepared for round 1

I do have another that is longer than 18months. When we traded for Hall I remember Eade saying that he wanted to get Hall 12 months earlier but the swans wanted too much. As the coach if he believes Hall is the missing piece for a premiership then why didn't he just do the trade regardless of what it costs? The cats did with Ottens and the pies did it with Jolley. Instead he went with Minson and we all know what happened.
He needs to make tough decisions that probably won't be popular at the time but is in his mind the right decision. Him admitting he wanted Hall 12 months earlier is a big mistake.

[Dry Rot]

I do have another that is longer than 18months. When we traded for Hall I remember Eade saying that he wanted to get Hall 12 months earlier but the swans wanted too much. As the coach if he believes Hall is the missing piece for a premiership then why didn't he just do the trade regardless of what it costs? The cats did with Ottens and the pies did it with Jolley. Instead he went with Minson and we all know what happened.
He needs to make tough decisions that probably won't be popular at the time but is in his mind the right decision. Him admitting he wanted Hall 12 months earlier is a big mistake.

While I have agreed with many of your posts re Eade, I'm not certain of the call you've made here NB we don't know what that earlier high price for Hall was.

It might have been very high eg a swap for Cooney or maybe something not so over the top like say our first and second round draft picks. Neither of us know that to make the call you are making..

[anfo27]

It 'means nothing'? Geez you may as well stop watching football now because I have news for you -- we haven't won the premiership in quite a while so by your own measure your entire Dogs watching life has been meaningless. Also, if we get rid of Rocket, no matter who we get next year -- and this includes Malthouse, Roos etc. -- we may win it in 2 years, but we could just as easily not win the flag for another 10 years, or 20 years, so be prepared for a lot more 'meaningless' seasons.

Here's another -- and I would suggest the mature -- way of looking at it: no other coach in the history of the Dogs has EVER done what Rocket did in the last 5 years. We are so success-starved that we can't even see it for what it is -- a great platform and a giant leap forward for our club. Premierships are crucial, but they are NOT everything: North won a few in the 90s (on the back of the best CHF ever), where are they now as a club? I would prefer a stable, growing club with a strong culture that regularly challenges for a flag, and we are far closer to that vision now than we were 7 years ago, and some credit where it is due may be closer to the mark than this uneducated ranting.

ps. The same posters who are potting the gameplan also complain unknowingly about all the changes we've made this year (longer kicks to the boundary etc.) -- if you think we're playing the same gameplan that we've been the last few years we are not watching the same game. The changes are not all working, but I've said this in another post: Rocket has been tinkering as much this year as ever. Just because he's struggled doesn't mean he's been standing still.

All that first paragraph Lantern is a load of rubbish, you shouldn't try to insinuate that I have said something that I have clearly not.
I never said what rocket achieved was meaningless Lantern. I clearly said I'm not content with making a prelim final, I've seen plenty of prelims. We all want the same things but making the top 4 doesn't mean you're a challenger, we were clearly making up the numbers last year.
I haven't been talking about any of the games we have played in the last 6-7 weeks because i haven't been here so I haven't seen them.
We'll have to agree to disagree, not that I'm interested in your opinion anyway as you like to jump on posters who have a different opinion and try to belittle them. I don't really give a stuff what you think of me as I have little time for bullies.

[jeemak]

Are we suppose to be content with that? Yeah sure we haven't had success in a long time but 3 top 4 finishes in consecutive years means nothing if you can't get past a prelim. Eade has been good enough to get us this far but clearly is not good enough to take us further.

I don't want a coach who is the last person to change with the times, i want someone who is going to be the first. What will happen when the next trend comes in? will he wait 3 years before he concedes he needs to change? he doesn't deserve another chance to find out.

I don't know what you call it Lantern but to be ambushed by a average team after being shown their blue print on tv for 4 continuous weeks and still have no clue on match day is inept. We should have lost by 100 points FFS. The players looked like they were playing aliens from outer space who have come here with a brand new style that had never been seen before.

Eade's on record last year as saying he doesn't necessarily think playing like Collingwood is the best way to beat Collingwood. And I think he might be on to something. When Monty mentioned changing the game plan, I think he would have probably been talking about leap frogging it.

Like you I want a coach that is planning well ahead in terms of strategy. Eade tried to tweak his game from 2005-2008 in late 2009, and throughout 2010 to match up an extremely good offensive game with a good defensive one. The result was a very good defensive record over the last two years. Sure the press found him out in terms of offence, but he refined the teams defensive game significantly. He did that because we were having what he and the club thought was a serious tilt, the game plan couldn't have been messed with too much over that time. I don't think he was sitting on his hands all this time.

His real test is now. The second half of this season will give him an opportunity to implement something drastically new with a fresh list that can be manipulated without, in a lot of respects, having to be un-trained out of the old game plan.

It's going to be frustrating over the next eleven weeks. Our skills will be crap, we'll make inconsistent decisions with ball movement and we'll sometimes look completely lost. But if we want to seriously change the game plan to turn things around then we're going to have to put up with it. Eade has once shown what he can do in terms of strategy and a fresh untrained list, while he didn't quite get there in the end he gave it a very good crack. I think he can do it again with the talent available to him.

[anfo27]

While I have agreed with many of your posts re Eade, I'm not certain of the call you've made here NB we don't know what that earlier high price for Hall was.

It might have been very high eg a swap for Cooney or maybe something not so over the top like say our first and second round draft picks. Neither of us know that to make the call you are making..

Perhaps you are right but you need to give something to get something. The cats gave up 2 first rounders for Ottens, the pies gave up a first rounder for Jolly and the hawks gave up Zaharakis for 12 months of Dew, all high prices to pay.

[Dry Rot]

Perhaps you are right but you need to give something to get something. The cats gave up 2 first rounders for Ottens, the pies gave up a first rounder for Jolly and the hawks gave up Zaharakis for 12 months of Dew, all high prices to pay.

Don't disagree, but neither of us know what that high Swans price was. Perhaps it was a player like Griff, not draft picks? We just don't know.

FWIW, I agree with a lot of what you post about Eade and I think it's time for a new coach.

[boydogs]

We'll have to agree to disagree, not that I'm interested in your opinion anyway as you like to jump on posters who have a different opinion and try to belittle them. I don't really give a stuff what you think of me as I have little time for bullies.

You had me until this. You're reading Lantern wrong if he is coming across that way.

[Bulldog Joe]

Sorry anfo but I don't agree on your list of errors

-playing players that are injured.
Every Coach plays injured players to a degree. Evidence Dale Morris in 2009 PF, Lake was very good despite the injuries in 2010 and what about Griff in 2010 finals
-sticking with the same players when their form does not warrant it.This is often rolled out, but 2008-10 was successful through stability. This year lots of new players and look at the results
-the whole Brad Johnson affair. We all love Brad but rocket gets paid to make the tough decisions and he refused to acknowledge that Brad was a liability. The eagles left out woosha a premiership hero for a final because Malthouse thought it was the best decision for the team.Again I think you are unfair. Johnno had problems in his last season, but still contributed, when he got on the park. We were seriously short on numbers at season's end with Cooney and Higgins on the sidelines. Jarrad Grant was a bigger liability in the finals
-inability to improve our forward line pressure Yes. This has been a problem, but also relates to the personnel available
-inability to improve our tackling
-acknowledging that we lack pace at trade week when it was obvious to everyone on here we lacked pace for a couple of years.Just because he acknowledged it then, does not mean he was unaware of it. Drafting of Tutt and Thorne was looking to address that a year earlier
-inability to find a way to beat Colingwoods & the saints press as well as every other team now. Well everyone else are still struggling to beat it and most are trying to copy. Collingwood have a few other advantages that everyone seems to be struggling to combat
-having a team in a professional competition unprepared for round 1I do believe we under-estimated Essendon and made a bad selection choice with Williams as back up ruck. We also had an ordinary draw that saw us effectively starting the season ANZAC Day in Perth. I consider the Brisbane and Gold Coast games were basically practice matches and it was not till Freo that we met normal intensity in games

I do have another that is longer than 18months. When we traded for Hall I remember Eade saying that he wanted to get Hall 12 months earlier but the swans wanted too much. As the coach if he believes Hall is the missing piece for a premiership then why didn't he just do the trade regardless of what it costs? The cats did with Ottens and the pies did it with Jolley. Instead he went with Minson and we all know what happened.
He needs to make tough decisions that probably won't be popular at the time but is in his mind the right decision. Him admitting he wanted Hall 12 months earlier is a big mistake.

I see trading overall as one of the pluses from Eade. Some innovative deals getting players out in Bowden and McMahon and getting Aker and Hudson in. Probably did not do as well in last year's trade, but it is easy to over pay in trades. Just look at the relative record of Peter Rohde.

I am in the camp that believes Eade had been very very good for our footy club. I also see the club as better set up for the future, than I have ever seen.

I don't want that thrown away, by change for the sake of change. I will be happy for Eade to continue as I can't see why he would not remain a good coach with a renewed group.

If you compare him to Malthouse he has done pretty well. Malthouse did make GFs early at Collingwood, but then dropped away and it is only after a long period that he has achieved the ultimate with his renewed group, including gaining a priority draft pick. He also has resources that Eade could only dream about.

[chef]

While I have agreed with many of your posts re Eade, I'm not certain of the call you've made here NB we don't know what that earlier high price for Hall was.

It might have been very high eg a swap for Cooney or maybe something not so over the top like say our first and second round draft picks. Neither of us know that to make the call you are making..

Pretty sure they wanted our first rounder and we were already committed to Cordy and weren't prepared to trade out a player to get one.

[anfo27]

You had me until this. You're reading Lantern wrong if he is coming across that way.

Well he has thrown insults my way when he hasn't agreed with something i have posted.

I come on this forum because like everyone else I have red, white and blue running through my veins and I like to post whats on my mind about our great club. I don't pretend to be an expert on footy or any other sport for that matter. there are posters on here who don't agree with what i have to post & thats fine as I don't agree with every poster on here either but slinging insults and to delibrately miscontrue what people post because you don't rate their opinion is bullying.

To call someone you have never met or know as uneducated is insulting and its not the first time I have felt insulted by this poster.

[anfo27]

Sorry anfo but I don't agree on your list of errors


I see trading overall as one of the pluses from Eade. Some innovative deals getting players out in Bowden and McMahon and getting Aker and Hudson in. Probably did not do as well in last year's trade, but it is easy to over pay in trades. Just look at the relative record of Peter Rohde.

I am in the camp that believes Eade had been very very good for our footy club. I also see the club as better set up for the future, than I have ever seen.

I don't want that thrown away, by change for the sake of change. I will be happy for Eade to continue as I can't see why he would not remain a good coach with a renewed group.

If you compare him to Malthouse he has done pretty well. Malthouse did make GFs early at Collingwood, but then dropped away and it is only after a long period that he has achieved the ultimate with his renewed group, including gaining a priority draft pick. He also has resources that Eade could only dream about.

Eade has been great for our footy club but I have never debated that. I don't think he has done a good job in the last 18 months and therefore don't think he deserves another crack.
I don't think Eade is anywhere near Malthouse. Mick has made tough decisions at the selection & trade table something I have yet to see from Eade. Eade has only started dropping senior players this year, thats too late. I don't think Eade has been that good at the trade table either, except for the Hudson & Mcmahon deal.

[LongWait]

Eade has been great for our footy club but I have never debated that. I don't think he has done a good job in the last 18 months and therefore don't think he deserves another crack.
I don't think Eade is anywhere near Malthouse. Mick has made tough decisions at the selection & trade table something I have yet to see from Eade. Eade has only started dropping senior players this year, thats too late. I don't think Eade has been that good at the trade table either, except for the Hudson & Mcmahon deal.

I'm prepared to give Eade until the end of the season before the club decides its' next coach. Eade may convince me yet that he can rejuvenate the playing list and develop and implement a credible new game plan.

Much of the rest of what you have been posting I wholeheartedly agree with, including the propensity of some on here to belittle anyone who dares to differ with their opinion. The arrogance of some people is at times simply breathtaking. It is why a number of good bulldogs people don't bother with this forum any more.

[Desipura]

Much of the rest of what you have been posting I wholeheartedly agree with, including the propensity of some on here to belittle anyone who dares to differ with their opinion. The arrogance of some people is at times simply breathtaking. It is why a number of good bulldogs people don't bother with this forum any more.

Which good people are you referring to?

[LongWait]

Which good people are you referring to?

You may be surprised at the pm's, emails and txt's that are exchanged between people who meet on internet forums and at the footy. I know that there are people who would post on here more often but don't for the reasons previously discussed. If you don't believe me that's perfectly ok with me.

[LostDoggy]

You may be surprised at the pm's, emails and txt's that are exchanged between people who meet on internet forums and at the footy. I know that there are people who would post on here more often but don't for the reasons previously discussed. If you don't believe me that's perfectly ok with me.

Shit man its a pretty damn good forum if you can point me to somewhere better on the internets to discuss such things i'm all ears.

[Desipura]

You may be surprised at the pm's, emails and txt's that are exchanged between people who meet on internet forums and at the footy. I know that there are people who would post on here more often but don't for the reasons previously discussed. If you don't believe me that's perfectly ok with me.

I'm not saying don't believe you, just wanted to know who no longer posts here.

[GVGjr]

Guys, lets stick to the topic at hand.

[Before I Die]

Eade has been great for our footy club but I have never debated that. I don't think he has done a good job in the last 18 months and therefore don't think he deserves another crack.
I don't think Eade is anywhere near Malthouse. Mick has made tough decisions at the selection & trade table something I have yet to see from Eade. Eade has only started dropping senior players this year, thats too late. I don't think Eade has been that good at the trade table either, except for the Hudson & Mcmahon deal.

At Collingwood Mick has had the following record:

2000 15th
2001 9th
2002 2nd
2003 2nd (50 point loss)
2004 13th
2005 15th
2006 7th
2007 4th
2008 5th
2009 4th
2010 1st
2011 pending

Should he have been sacked after 2004 or 2005? Surely at that point he had a worse record than Eade currently has and I am sure there were plenty of calls for his head. Eddie stuck fat, though the possibility of giving the job to Buckley caused a change of heart for the president and in 2010 he struck the succession plan deal. It took Malthouse seven years to reach a grand final again after 2003 and but for a lucky bounce he could have lost it. Even though he had the superior team which was clearly demonstrated in the replay. If Mick is so good, why the lean years? I actually think Mick is a good coach, but even the best have ups and downs.

Rocket's record with the Dogs:

2005 9th
2006 Semi Finalist
2007 13th
2008 Preliminary Finalist
2009 Preliminary Finalist
2010 Preliminary Finalist
2011 Season currently underway

Should he have been sacked at the end of 2007? If Rocket has done a poor job for 18 months does that mean we should have won it last year and Mick is not really a genius, he is just lucky that Eade is no good? ;)

I am not having a crack at you, each to their own opinion. As I said above, I think Mick has done a good job at Collingwood and he has brought home the bacon. I present the above as support for my argument that Eade has an excellent record and deserves the opportunity to turn things around, which I believe he can do very quickly. I would like to see Eade get another two years. But that is just my opinion.

[anfo27]

At Collingwood Mick has had the following record:

2000 15th
2001 9th
2002 2nd
2003 2nd (50 point loss)
2004 13th
2005 15th
2006 7th
2007 4th
2008 5th
2009 4th
2010 1st
2011 pending

Should he have been sacked after 2004 or 2005? Surely at that point he had a worse record than Eade currently has and I am sure there were plenty of calls for his head. Eddie stuck fat, though the possibility of giving the job to Buckley caused a change of heart for the president and in 2010 he struck the succession plan deal. It took Malthouse seven years to reach a grand final again after 2003 and but for a lucky bounce he could have lost it. Even though he had the superior team which was clearly demonstrated in the replay. If Mick is so good, why the lean years? I actually think Mick is a good coach, but even the best have ups and downs.

Rocket's record with the Dogs:

2005 9th
2006 Semi Finalist
2007 13th
2008 Preliminary Finalist
2009 Preliminary Finalist
2010 Preliminary Finalist
2011 Season currently underway

Should he have been sacked at the end of 2007? If Rocket has done a poor job for 18 months does that mean we should have won it last year and Mick is not really a genius, he is just lucky that Eade is no good? ;)

I am not having a crack at you, each to their own opinion. As I said above, I think Mick has done a good job at Collingwood and he has brought home the bacon. I present the above as support for my argument that Eade has an excellent record and deserves the opportunity to turn things around, which I believe he can do very quickly. I would like to see Eade get another two years. But that is just my opinion.

My argument is more than just results. Yeah Mick won the flag last year but its more about what he demands from his players & any name not willing to do as he demands gets dropped is what I admire. I also think the way he has brought through his kids over a 3-4 year period has been brilliant.
Eade has done a great job in his time here & i've never debated that, he has just lost me in the last 18 months. I don't think Eades record with us comes close to Micks record in the same time frame. Three prelims doesn't come close to back to back grand finals.

[Before I Die]

My argument is more than just results. Yeah Mick won the flag last year but its more about what he demands from his players & any name not willing to do as he demands gets dropped is what I admire. I also think the way he has brought through his kids over a 3-4 year period has been brilliant.
Eade has done a great job in his time here & i've never debated that, he has just lost me in the last 18 months. I don't think Eades record with us comes close to Micks record in the same time frame. Three prelims doesn't come close to back to back grand finals.

I think you are a very harsh marker. The difference between these results is most likely just a question of luck. However, if Mick wins it this year he cements his place as one of the greats both for longevity and for results. But the facts of Mick's greatness does not impact on Rocket's credentials and for me it is still a case of 'in Rod we trust' at least until the end of 2012.

[Greystache]

At Collingwood Mick has had the following record:

2000 15th
2001 9th
2002 2nd
2003 2nd (50 point loss)
2004 13th
2005 15th
2006 7th
2007 4th
2008 5th
2009 4th
2010 1st
2011 pending

Should he have been sacked after 2004 or 2005? Surely at that point he had a worse record than Eade currently has and I am sure there were plenty of calls for his head. Eddie stuck fat, though the possibility of giving the job to Buckley caused a change of heart for the president and in 2010 he struck the succession plan deal. It took Malthouse seven years to reach a grand final again after 2003 and but for a lucky bounce he could have lost it. Even though he had the superior team which was clearly demonstrated in the replay. If Mick is so good, why the lean years? I actually think Mick is a good coach, but even the best have ups and downs.

Rocket's record with the Dogs:

2005 9th
2006 6th (74 point loss)
2007 13th
2008 3rd
2009 3rd
2010 4th
2011 Season currently underway

Should he have been sacked at the end of 2007? If Rocket has done a poor job for 18 months does that mean we should have won it last year and Mick is not really a genius, he is just lucky that Eade is no good? ;)

I am not having a crack at you, each to their own opinion. As I said above, I think Mick has done a good job at Collingwood and he has brought home the bacon. I present the above as support for my argument that Eade has an excellent record and deserves the opportunity to turn things around, which I believe he can do very quickly. I would like to see Eade get another two years. But that is just my opinion.

EFA

If you're going to compare then compare like for like.

[Before I Die]

EFA

If you're going to compare then compare like for like.

????

Sorry Greystache you are going to have to explain. I don't understand what you mean by EFA and I don't understand what you mean with your follow up statement either.

[Greystache]

????

Sorry Greystache you are going to have to explain. I don't understand what you mean by EFA and I don't understand what you mean with your follow up statement either.

EFA- edited for accuracy

You list Malthouse as 3rd, 4th, 7th etc, then list Eade's finishes in the same positions as Semi-finalist, Preliminary finalist, preliminary finalist. It's blatantly misleading.

[Before I Die]

EFA- edited for accuracy

You list Malthouse as 3rd, 4th, 7th etc, then list Eade's finishes in the same positions as Semi-finalist, Preliminary finalist, preliminary finalist. It's blatantly misleading.

It was a cut and paste from wikipedia with no alteration from me. It was also in no way misleading and the detail you have added (which I admit I hadn't noticed when I responded) makes zero difference to the points I was making. Which are that after a couple of successful years the Malthouse coached Pies slipped down the ladder only to rise again a few years later. And that despite the fact that Malthouse in undeniably a good coach he has recently experienced a sequence of over ten years in which he did not win a premiership, but through which his President stuck with him and has now been rewarded.

[BulldogBelle]

At Collingwood Mick has had the following record:

2000 15th
2001 9th
2002 2nd
2003 2nd (50 point loss)
2004 13th
2005 15th
2006 7th
2007 4th
2008 5th
2009 4th
2010 1st
2011 pending

Should he have been sacked after 2004 or 2005? Surely at that point he had a worse record than Eade currently has and I am sure there were plenty of calls for his head. Eddie stuck fat, though the possibility of giving the job to Buckley caused a change of heart for the president and in 2010 he struck the succession plan deal. It took Malthouse seven years to reach a grand final again after 2003 and but for a lucky bounce he could have lost it. Even though he had the superior team which was clearly demonstrated in the replay. If Mick is so good, why the lean years? I actually think Mick is a good coach, but even the best have ups and downs.

Rocket's record with the Dogs:

2005 9th
2006 Semi Finalist
2007 13th
2008 Preliminary Finalist
2009 Preliminary Finalist
2010 Preliminary Finalist
2011 Season currently underway

Should he have been sacked at the end of 2007? If Rocket has done a poor job for 18 months does that mean we should have won it last year and Mick is not really a genius, he is just lucky that Eade is no good? ;)

I am not having a crack at you, each to their own opinion. As I said above, I think Mick has done a good job at Collingwood and he has brought home the bacon. I present the above as support for my argument that Eade has an excellent record and deserves the opportunity to turn things around, which I believe he can do very quickly. I would like to see Eade get another two years. But that is just my opinion.

I wish you guys would think along different paths. To demonstrate I'll tell you a little story that is thousands of years old. Its not exactly the way its written down elsewhere.

There was once this father who had 3 sons and he was going away for some time. To each son he gave 10 talents. When he came back after three footy seasons were over he said to the first son, "Well what have to done with those 10 talents", to which the son replied, "I only lost one of the talents but managed to get to the preliminary final three times".

To the second son he asked "Well what have to done with those 10 talents", to which the son replied, "I invested wisely and turned the talents into a premiership". The third son as we know just buried the talents, didn't lose or gain anything.

For my two-bobs worth Eade is like the first son, he started with a big talent and opportunity bank and squandered it.

[LostDoggy]

I am all for keeping Eade. He has not been able to get the same team on the park at all. For example, the back 6 playing together so long they intuitively know what the other is doing, is not available to him right now. The changing of the guard takes time.

It is interesting that someone like Brad Scott can come in and get NM playing a tougher brand of football that appears more cohesive than ours, with a similar young list.

I am also mystified why we keep playing youngsters, then dropping them. Scott, for example, has played Atley on the wing for most of the year. It seems he has identified him as being essential to the club's future and so has decided to get game time into him, despite him not dominating a game. But I can see the huge upside in him.

I look at DJ and see a footballer who can be very good for us, but who seems at times to run to the wrong places, overun the ball, or fumble. But that can be worked on. He has to be taught, and the greatest teacher is game time. Yet our selection policies suggest we are unsure whether he should be in the side or not.