Callan Ward - Should he stay or should he go?

[The Coon Dog]

Peter Hanlon - The Age - 25 June

HERE'S a taste of what people think Callan Ward should do, and goodness knows there's been no shortage of folk - some of whom even know him - offering to help make the biggest decision of his young life …

Tired of fielding questions about whether her son is going to Greater Western Sydney, Kerri Ward recently ran his dilemma by her grade fives in their persuasive writing class. Many at the Williamstown school are Western Bulldogs fans, yet when they heard what was being offered, the classroom could have been a live audience at a TV game show - ''Take the money! Go!''

Ward met GWS officials for a second time early this week, and a five-year offer of lottery-win proportions was laid out; bells, whistles, carrots and all. People baulk at voicing figures with so many zeroes in them; it almost sounds dirty. Suffice to say, a recent claim that he would sacrifice as much as $2 million over five years to stay a Bulldog now appears quite conservative.


Article in full... (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/should-he-stay-or-should-he-go-20110624-1gjno.html)

[chef]

'When Callan and his twin sister Aysha were little, and the Wards would get together with Footscray-following friends, their dad would ask them, ''What do the Bulldogs do?'' And the kids would answer, ''The Bulldogs break your heart'''

Nice article and how true:(.

Lucky I'm a glutton for punishment.

[Flamethrower]

Peter Hanlon - The Age - 25 June


Ward met GWS officials for a second time early this week, and a five-year offer of lottery-win proportions was laid out; bells, whistles, carrots and all.

I nearly fell off my chair when I read this. This is poaching, and for the AFL to approve of it stinks. In season poaching of players goes against the culture of Australian Rules football. It belongs in heathen sports like the NRL and English football.

I dont mind the fact that the Giants can sound out potential players before the season, and even get them to agree not to resign with their current clubs so that the AFL/GWS can throw Lotto money at they to defect. But once the season starts, it should be hands off!!!!! :mad:

[ledge]

I find the article is leading him away, just remember he might not get the money they are offering but he wont be poor either way, it will be a decent pay he will get at the dogs too.
He also gets to stay in his comfort zone with mates etc.
Chris the Great did it he doesnt have regrets that we know of.
The thing is nowadays I think supporters are more understanding of players leaving for money, lets face it the draft is preperation for that, you dont go where you want unless your lucky, I just wonder how many players would be at the clubs they are at now if they could have the choice.
He is a lucky one he ended up close to home with mates etc.
It will be sad if he leaves but for the club one door closes another one opens.

[Ghost Dog]

money can't buy you love.

In China, there is the concept of 'social capital'

Has anyone calculated how much social capital Callan stands to collect if he stays?
He will forever be known as 'the guy who gave up millions to stand by his team'.
Kids everywhere will idolize him, not at the end of his career, like grant, but now, at the start.

He's smart if he stays IMO because in terms of endorsements and other opportunities, he will come out pretty even ( having as much as a man could want in any respect. Who needs more than 700,000 in a year anyway??? ) in the end, plus get all the social capital that goes with being a club man.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Reading that, I reckon he's gone.

[ledge]

Reading that, I reckon he's gone.

According to that we will find out in 2 weeks, in that case what does the club do? play him or give another kid a go, why nurture another clubs player?
Can of worms here?

[LostDoggy]

money can't buy you love.

In China, there is the concept of 'social capital'

Has anyone calculated how much social capital Callan stands to collect if he stays?
He will forever be known as 'the guy who gave up millions to stand by his team'.
Kids everywhere will idolize him, not at the end of his career, like grant, but now, at the start.

He's smart if he stays IMO because in terms of endorsements and other opportunities, he will come out pretty even ( having as much as a man could want in any respect. Who needs more than 700,000 in a year anyway??? ) in the end, plus get all the social capital that goes with being a club man.

Some very good points GD.

that article has a subtle subtext of ' gee, wouldn't it be
an amazing romantic story if he said no to all that money and put the love of the club before all else'

.. has hollywood feelgood story written all over it ! a canny manager could really milk that angle ;)

[Remi Moses]

Is this article written and authorized by K. Sheedy and the AFL.
Awful article such tripe as "people tell him he could be happier, the GWS will make it happen"
You can only count your money for so long, still gotta live there!

[w3design]

I feel sick reading this. What are they doing to our game when an artificial soulless non identity of a club, put together just as a strategic plan to have AFL presence in certain key locations, can wave this amount of money around?

I'd felt so confident Cal Ward was going to stay. My disgust is not with him but the direction footy is headed in. How disillusioning for us loyal patient fans to see our club being shafted by this kind of system. :(

[chef]

According to that we will find out in 2 weeks, in that case what does the club do? play him or give another kid a go, why nurture another clubs player?
Can of worms here?

If the compo is based on his wage at GWS, play the kids and screw him if he's gone. If it's based on his performance this season, play him every game and give him the B&F.

[LostDoggy]

If we offer him 400 and The promise of Boyd's job, he will stay.

[LostDoggy]

I meant Boyd's job in a year or two.

[LostDoggy]

They spelt James Hinds' name wrong. :rolleyes:

[The Coon Dog]

They spelt James Hinds' name wrong. :rolleyes:

Poor Jimma, gets his name spelt wrong in the paper & then gets knocked out for Spotty ressies this afternoon! :cool:

[LostDoggy]

Ward plays with his heart before his head, no reason to think he might make decisions the same way. Does anyone on the board have a very pretty daughter? ;)

Western Sydney is not the nicest area to live in.

[FrediKanoute]

He needs to have a word to Harbrow about whether leaving was worth it. Remember though Harbrow went for family reasons, Wardy would be going for the cash. Its a lonely life in West Sydney

[Dazza]

The Harbrow situation is completely different.

[Jasper]

He needs to have a word to Harbrow about whether leaving was worth it. Remember though Harbrow went for family reasons, Wardy would be going for the cash. Its a lonely life in West Sydney

Harbrow is happy as a pig in poo. Recall an article where he said Melbourne was 'doing his head in'.

Ward is different. But then if he is offered $800k a year for five years when in fact he is probably worth less than half this...we can't compete. Neither can Melbourne with Scully. The compo stinks, the whole thing stinks. We are all being smashed by the Karma bus when many clubs sent their rubbish to the Bears. No doubt we'll get an end of first round pick or early second round which translates to about Pick 25-30 in compensation which is BS.

One concept, and I am not sure if its workable. If Ward wants to go (but has a big soft spot for us) why doesn't he do a Judd and demand a fair trade for the Dogs - to do this he would have to sign a one year extension with us and then a trade is done by mutual consent at years end. GWS then get to do one of their compulsory trades and keep an uncontracted player up their sleeve, while we get a better deal.

[Ghost Dog]

Ah well. lay your bets gentlemen and ladies ( theoretical of course)

For mine, he will stay.

[AndrewP6]

Ah well. lay your bets gentlemen and ladies ( theoretical of course)

For mine, he will stay.

Gooorn. Already agreed to go.*

* I really, really, really, really want to be wrong on this.

[jeemak]

I think he's going to go, unfortunately. It's just too much money to turn down, and it's a great opportunity for a young man to take and see if he can make a fist of a new life in unfamiliar surroundings.

I don't think he's worth the money though, in fact there's only a few players in the league that are, in Buddy, Ablett or Judd for instance. Maybe a younger player like Martin could be justified in being offered that much but Ward isn't of the same quality.

I know it's a start up side and they need to be competitive but it sickens me to think how easily the AFL will let GWS over pay a player like Ward to the tune of $300-400K. As a club we have to fight tooth and nail to get this sort of money out of the AFL to remain competitive through equalisation funding (I know we get more than that annually), and it rubs salt in to the wound having to lose a solid player we've blooded that was supposed to be a reason to keep our supporters coming to games over the next few years.

I just hope he raises his output for us this season to ensure we get the best compensation possible for his loss.

[Dry Rot]

Gooorn. Already agreed to go.*



Agreed if the suggested offer is correct. He'd be a fool not to.

[Dry Rot]

Western Sydney is not the nicest area to live in.

He'd probably live in a lovely northern beaches location and then commute out to that shit hole.

[jeemak]

He'd probably live in a lovely northern beaches location and then commute out to that shit hole.

It will be a massive shock to the system for him if he does, and a lot of down time not being able to head home over the pre-season when he'll be required to do multiple sessions and meetings in a day.

[Dry Rot]

It will be a massive shock to the system for him if he does, and a lot of down time not being able to head home over the pre-season when he'll be required to do multiple sessions and meetings in a day.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars will cushion that, just like all the poor bastards who are forced to commute to multinational IT and pharmaceutical companies out in the north west.

[Remi Moses]

He'd probably live in a lovely northern beaches location and then commute out to that shit hole.

Fair way to commute . The sport is unfortunately going the way of the world game. The have's have not's, silly wages. Hostile environment, hostile local media . AFL's Vietnam

[Ghost Dog]

Agreed if the suggested offer is correct. He'd be a fool not to.

Why is he a fool? Social capital! He's a richer man if he stays.

[chef]

Why is he a fool? Social capital! He's a richer man if he stays.

I guess that depends on what's most important to him and we will soon find out.

[Jasper]

Fair way to commute . The sport is unfortunately going the way of the world game. The have's have not's, silly wages. Hostile environment, hostile local media . AFL's Vietnam

Interesting to note how many Bulldogs live in Footscray (or some would call it Little Vietnam/Somalia)??

I regularly see Minson, Murphy and Hudson in Carlton...don't reckon its that relevant. If you are in your early twenties and on $800k a year, a commute doesn't matter.

[Mofra]

Interesting to note how many Bulldogs live in Footscray (or some would call it Little Vietnam/Somalia)??

I regularly see Minson, Murphy and Hudson in Carlton...don't reckon its that relevant. If you are in your early twenties and on $800k a year, a commute doesn't matter.
Carlton/Fitzroy to Footscray is nothing compared to driving halfway across Sydney. Quite a few players live in Maidstone IIRC

The question of family is another important one - Harbrow had family in Queensland which heklped make his decision easier, ditto Ablett. The Wards are all locals which make the $$$ not the only consideration.

[ledge]

Hundreds of thousands of dollars will cushion that, just like all the poor bastards who are forced to commute to multinational IT and pharmaceutical companies out in the north west.

But he isnt forced to, he has an option to stay at the dogs with his mates and family and will still be paid well, he already has a house here.

[Maddog37]

He is staying. I can feel it in my bones.

GWS is really gonna be pushing shit up hill to recruit players. Taylor walker and Reese Palmer are not exactly a graders IMO.

[Dog54]

But he isnt forced to, he has an option to stay at the dogs with his mates and family and will still be paid well, he already has a house here.

You can live in the eastern suburbs of Sydney on the beachand go against the traffic to training in 45 mins. I think he will stay but don't believe what people are saying about GWS being a shithole. Better climate in winter you can live on the water if you like.

[LostDoggy]

I feel he will go and why wouldn't he. An offer like this is simply to good to set himself up.

I am more annoyed with the system whereby we lose one of our best young players last year to Gold Coast and potentially again this year to GWS. Clubs that haven't had premiership success for a long time should not be impacted by the establishment of the new clubs. The clubs that have won flag in the last 10 years should be the ones suffering the impact.

Here we are building a team for the future and we lose two of the future champions ..... with pretty ordinary compensation.

[Sedat]

Here we are building a team for the future and we lose two of the future champions ..... with pretty ordinary compensation.
Sherman certainly classifies under this description.

[LostDoggy]

He will stay. That is all. Bookmark this fellas.

[LostDoggy]

Ward plays with his heart before his head, no reason to think he might make decisions the same way. Does anyone on the board have a very pretty daughter?

If I was his type I'd have a crack :p

So many articles are still giving me no indication of what his plans are. Well they're giving me an indication, being blatantly GWS emphasising, but I guess we really do have to wait.

This system is effed.

[LostDoggy]

Seriously what would the bulldogs be offering a young 21 year old with good potential. I say potential because lets face it except for the Richmond game this year I haven't seen him overly influential in a game. He is just starting to rack up the numbers a good midfielder is expected to so what would we offer a guy like this? 300,000 maybe?

Therefore a offer if real for 700,000 a year over 5 years is exceptional and maybe even the Captain carrot as he is a leader type is thrown in. What would you do? I know I would be packing the bags and saying hello Sydney.

If offer true he is gone.

If not he will stay.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

i honestly don't know what is going on with Ward. The media are just throwing crap all over the place. After reading this article http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bulldog-keen-to-stay-at-kennel-20110614-1g1y4.html a couple weeks ago i was almost 100% confident he was staying. After reading it would be HUGELY dissapointing if he left after saying he wanted to stay. Now this article sounds like he has gone.The longer it goes on the more it looks like he has gone

[FrediKanoute]

Harbrow is happy as a pig in poo. Recall an article where he said Melbourne was 'doing his head in'.

Yeah, but recall also Harbrow's comments about looking around at his bacline colleages and realising how much he relied on Lake, hargrave, Morris ect for direction. Looking at how he drew inspiration for the intensity of this trainng from guys like Morris and \Boyd and then realising up n the GC those people weren't there.

What Ward needs to realise is that yes its a truck load of dough, but as a mature player in a new club he is going to earn every red cent of it. His game style is an in close midfielder which means he's going to be putting his body on the line more regularly than say a dash from the backline player like Harbrow. Currrently he has some hard bodies around him who take hits he doesn't ahve to take. At GWS, he'lll be doing that on behalf of his younger teamates.

He'll earn every penny if he goes.

[Raw Toast]

Excellent article IMO about a system that has been @*&$3@#% at least temporarily by the AFL in a horribly cynical way.

I think his mother is pretty upset with the system as well, it was very interesting to get her perspective on things (even though she seemed more balanced than I'd prefer!).


I feel sick reading this. What are they doing to our game when an artificial soulless non identity of a club, put together just as a strategic plan to have AFL presence in certain key locations, can wave this amount of money around?

I'd felt so confident Cal Ward was going to stay. My disgust is not with him but the direction footy is headed in. How disillusioning for us loyal patient fans to see our club being shafted by this kind of system. :(

Completely agree. Just shocking, but the outcry will only come if someone like the Paddlepop Lion betrays the Pies. It's just sickening how ready the AFL is to rip the heart of what was left of loyalty and integrity in the competition.


I find the article is leading him away, just remember he might not get the money they are offering but he wont be poor either way, it will be a decent pay he will get at the dogs too.

I actually agree with some other posters that the article is subtly suggesting that he should stick to the Dogs and become something of a fairytale, heroic figure. There's lots of good reasons for him to stay, but seemingly something (an unfair bit over $2 million) for him to also sell his soul. For what it's worth, I still think he'll stay, but regardless, the whole situation is appalling.

[LostDoggy]

Ward plays with his heart before his head, no reason to think he might make decisions the same way. Does anyone on the board have a very pretty daughter? ;)

Western Sydney is not the nicest area to live in.


He needs to have a word to Harbrow about whether leaving was worth it. Remember though Harbrow went for family reasons, Wardy would be going for the cash. Its a lonely life in West Sydney


He'd probably live in a lovely northern beaches location and then commute out to that shit hole.


It will be a massive shock to the system for him if he does, and a lot of down time not being able to head home over the pre-season when he'll be required to do multiple sessions and meetings in a day.


Fair way to commute . The sport is unfortunately going the way of the world game. The have's have not's, silly wages. Hostile environment, hostile local media . AFL's Vietnam

With the kind of money they're talking about, he can live anywhere he wants, in a beautiful house on the beach, and drive his Maserati to work every day in total comfort. Those telling you that living in Western Sydney is a reason he'd stay here are pulling your leg.

That said, I reckon he'll stay. The club will promise him the captainship when he's ready and he'll hang around.

If he doesn't, we move on. No use bitching about it.

[LostDoggy]

Excellent article IMO about a system that has been @*&$3@#% at least temporarily by the AFL in a horribly cynical way.

I think his mother is pretty upset with the system as well, it was very interesting to get her perspective on things (even though she seemed more balanced than I'd prefer!).



Completely agree. Just shocking, but the outcry will only come if someone like the Paddlepop Lion betrays the Pies. It's just sickening how ready the AFL is to rip the heart of what was left of loyalty and integrity in the competition.



I actually agree with some other posters that the article is subtly suggesting that he should stick to the Dogs and become something of a fairytale, heroic figure. There's lots of good reasons for him to stay, but seemingly something (an unfair bit over $2 million) for him to also sell his soul. For what it's worth, I still think he'll stay, but regardless, the whole situation is appalling.

With the prospect of finally having two teams in Sydney, competing with the NRL for TV and advertisement revenue, the AFL is hardly going to care about loyalty or integrity. Andrew Demetriou has always been about maximising the cash, he makes no apologies about it.

[LostDoggy]

I actually agree with some other posters that the article is subtly suggesting that he should stick to the Dogs and become something of a fairytale, heroic figure. There's lots of good reasons for him to stay, but seemingly something (an unfair bit over $2 million) for him to also sell his soul. For what it's worth, I still think he'll stay, but regardless, the whole situation is appalling.

It's a total joke if we lose Harbrow and Ward. The only way I'd feel any sicker would be if Griffen hadn't signed. Thank heavens he's a keeper - just keeps improving. I suspect Ward will go as GWS are desperate to sign a decent player and I think Daisy will ultimately stay with the filth. I rekon they'll get Goddard too next year which is even sicker for that mob. The money varience for Ward sounds huge and he's met wih them twice now so he's seriously thinking about it. Can we offer them sherman instead please - made a booboo there me-thinks:o

If Ward stays he gets automatic legend status and we need to institute an immediate rule banning any whinging about him by dogs supporters for the duration of his career! Do the right thing Callan. We'll love ya for it!

[AndrewP6]

Do the right thing Callum. We'll love ya for it!

Do the right thing and call him "Callan" ;)

[Curly5]

Did I hear correctly that he has to give them an answer within 2 weeks, or the offer will be withdrawn? Talk about pressure! Surely the Dogs can come up with a decent counter offer (although not $2 mil :( )

[Mantis]

Did I hear correctly that he has to give them an answer within 2 weeks, or the offer will be withdrawn? Talk about pressure! Surely the Dogs can come up with a decent counter offer (although not $2 mil :( )

What makes you think we can?

[w3design]

We pay up to the cap don't we? With veterans going at the end of this year, surely there is room for Cal to get an attractive offer. Well attractive in 'normal' terms. We have to be realistic that if he stays, it will be because he values friendship, family, love of the club and loyalty above money..we're not going to match their obscene offer.

[Sockeye Salmon]

We pay up to the cap don't we? With veterans going at the end of this year, surely there is room for Cal to get an attractive offer. Well attractive in 'normal' terms. We have to be realistic that if he stays, it will be because he values friendship, family, love of the club and loyalty above money..we're not going to match their obscene offer.

We know Gilbee is contracted again for 2012, that only leaves Hargrave.

[w3design]

Hudson? Hall?

[ledge]

Hudson? Hall?

Hall retires at end of year, Hudson I dont think club knows yet

[Ghost Dog]

With the kind of money they're talking about, he can live anywhere he wants, in a beautiful house on the beach, and drive his Maserati to work every day in total comfort. Those telling you that living in Western Sydney is a reason he'd stay here are pulling your leg.
.



Won't make him any happier than he is now.

[stefoid]

If Ward goes, we replace him by using his compo pick to trade for a homesick Dangerfield.

Like for like.

[LostDoggy]

I have a bad feeling its going to be like old time once players are able to move freely between clubs. Rich clubs dominating the finals.

[LostDoggy]

I hate this.
I hate this.
I hate Demitrio and I don't care how his stupid name is spelled
I hate this.
We are getting royally shafted and I'm scared by the $ numbers spelt out in the HUN today.
Watch us get another pick 25 in return :(
URRRRRRRGGGGG>>>>

[LostDoggy]

The bit I don't understand is Demetriou said tonight GWS had done nothing wrong. Is it against the rules or not to speak to a player during the season ?

[LostDoggy]

The bit I don't understand is Demetriou said tonight GWS had done nothing wrong. Is it against the rules or not to speak to a player during the season ?

These stupid ^&%$$%^& expansion clubs. It's been 46 1/2 years since a flag and they are gifting our best up and coming to this new crud up north. Stick your expansion you stupid little boys at AFL house or give us a decent return for giving our future to your pet project. Andrew made a comment re the player payments about looking after the supporters as the number 1 stakeholder. I for 1, am feeling very bl&^(^&(^(^ unlooked after Demetriou you piffle of a man with your piffle of a plan :(

[ledge]

looking after supporters? if thats the case why is the food so dear??

[Sockeye Salmon]

The bit I don't understand is Demetriou said tonight GWS had done nothing wrong. Is it against the rules or not to speak to a player during the season ?

He said he didn't know anything about it other than GWS hadn't done anything wrong.

[The Underdog]

Asked what penalties GWS may incur, Demetriou replied "there's a range of penalties, 'we could say there's a naughty little football team' or we could give them access to all future father son picks for all teams with membership bases lower than 35,000 to help them understand the culture of the AFL or we could pay the fine that we levy for the infraction, because hell, we're paying for the whole shebang anyway" *

*I may have totally made this up, in fact I pretty much definitely did.

[LostDoggy]

Since the compo pick is heavily weighted to the salary of the poached player, does that mean that on $1m per year for 5 years, that places Ward as a Tier 1 player meaning we get 2 first rounders?
That would certainly ease the pain of losing Ward. Jordan McMahon then becomes the gift that keeps on giving.

FWIW, I wouldn't begrudge Ward if he left. 5 year $5million deal vs a 2 year $700K deal.
With the impact style that Ward plays, a long deal on those dollars would be security impossible to refuse.

[Remi Moses]

Disagree entirely. There are other aspects in life than money!
Why have other players knocked them back?Yeah we'll get a pick but lose a probable capt. Along the way.We'll have lost two handy footballers along the way, yet some clubs have lost none! Great System :mad:

[stefoid]

The rich clubs can promise to 'look after' their stars outside the salary cap.

[LostDoggy]

Since the compo pick is heavily weighted to the salary of the poached player, does that mean that on $1m per year for 5 years, that places Ward as a Tier 1 player meaning we get 2 first rounders?
That would certainly ease the pain of losing Ward. Jordan McMahon then becomes the gift that keeps on giving.


Was thinking of that too. It puts him into Ablett compo range which would be more than fair compo for him (though perhaps just makes up for us getting screwed on Harbrow).

Though Ward remains one of my favourtite players and would be very unhappy to see him go.

[Desipura]

If Ward goes, we replace him by using his compo pick to trade for a homesick Dangerfield.

Like for like.

I like the way you are thinking.....imagine a midfield of Griffen, Cooney & Dangerfield. All 3 can run and carry, would be great to see!

[BulldogBelle]

The rich clubs can promise to 'look after' their stars outside the salary cap.



They have and always will....

More supporters, more businesses trying to gain attention from their larger supporter base, more influencial members with business contacts etc

Chis Judd's job at Visy as an Environmental Advisor comes to mind

[LostDoggy]

These stupid ^&%$$%^& expansion clubs. It's been 46 1/2 years since a flag and they are gifting our best up and coming to this new crud up north. Stick your expansion you stupid little boys at AFL house or give us a decent return for giving our future to your pet project. Andrew made a comment re the player payments about looking after the supporters as the number 1 stakeholder. I for 1, am feeling very bl&^(^&(^(^ unlooked after Demetriou you piffle of a man with your piffle of a plan :(

Interesting calculation. I wish you were right but there's roughly another ten years on top of that.

I'd like Dangermouse in our side if Cal went and Adelaide played ball.

Realistically we need Garlick and Smorgon to spread their networking vines and find contacts within the Bulldog community to engineer third party deals that will entice Judd-like players to come to our club.

It's the only way i can see your lesser clubs with financial clout to keep up with the big boys once free agency comes in.

[comrade]

Chis Judd's job at Visy as an Environmental Advisor comes to mind

Maybe Dimma can put his money where his mouth is and give Callan a job as a pizza and pasta ambassador?

This whole thing is *!*!*!*!ed up.

[BulldogBelle]

Maybe Dimma can put his money where his mouth is and give Callan a job as a pizza and pasta ambassador?

This whole thing is *!*!*!*!ed up.


A coffee ambassador?

Barista?

In all seriousness, if we retire Hudson and Hall at the end of the season, and if we traded Gilbee (he isnt offering us anything, and is slowing the progress of younger players like Howard), we will free up some space...

Hargrave hasnt contributed this season due to injury, but I'm certain he can do so next season (on the Veterans lists)

Can we only have 1 player or 2 on the veterans list?

If we got Dangermouse for Ward, plus another first round draft pick and didnt have to pay Callan all that money I wouldnt be lossing sleep...

[LostDoggy]

Can have two at least on Vets list

[The Underdog]

A coffee ambassador?

Barista?

In all seriousness, if we retire Hudson and Hall at the end of the season, and if we traded Gilbee (he isnt offering us anything, and is slowing the progress of younger players like Howard), we will free up some space...

Hargrave hasnt contributed this season due to injury, but I'm certain he can do so next season (on the Veterans lists)

Can we only have 1 player or 2 on the veterans list?

If we got Dangermouse for Ward, plus another first round draft pick and didnt have to pay Callan all that money I wouldnt be lossing sleep...

Nobody is trading for Gilbee. Why would you trade for a guy who's on the slide, who's one elite skill is no longer elite and has max. 1-2 years left in the game?
If we really lucked out he'd retire after this season but one way or another we're most likely paying him next year.

I can't even concieve of a way we get near Dangerfield either.

[bornadog]

At almost $1 million per year over 5 crazy not to take it.

[1eyedog]

Bye Bye Callan and I'm glad this was a very tough decision for you. You're more of a man because of it and you never know, we may see you in the red, white and blue again another day.

If we managed to free up some of the cap with the retirements of Hall and Hudson is there any chance of securing Dangerfield?

Are there others we would be prepared to part with who are out of contract at the end of this year? Can we free up the cap through the vets list (i.e. Gilbee, Hargrave, Cross?)

[LostDoggy]

Is there anywhere available that the public can find out when players contracts are singed until. I'm not talking in depth information. Just contract length.

[Greystache]

Is there anywhere available that the public can find out when players contracts are singed until. I'm not talking in depth information. Just contract length.

There's a work in progress but it's's not finished yet.

[Remi Moses]

Bye Bye Callan and I'm glad this was a very tough decision for you. You're more of a man because of it and you never know, we may see you in the red, white and blue again another day.

If we managed to free up some of the cap with the retirements of Hall and Hudson is there any chance of securing Dangerfield?

Are there others we would be prepared to part with who are out of contract at the end of this year? Can we free up the cap through the vets list (i.e. Gilbee, Hargrave, Cross?)

How in blazes would we get Dangerfield? Here you go Adelaide we get pick 20 something, give us Dangerfield! Says more about his character if he stays than goes, future leader of an institution that's been around since 1883. Not some unloved soulless franchise with Buckets of AFL Money! He's more of a man if he goes. Give me a spell:rolleyes:

[1eyedog]

How in blazes would we get Dangerfield? Here you go Adelaide we get pick 20 something, give us Dangerfield! Says more about his character if he stays than goes, future leader of an institution that's been around since 1883. Not some unloved soulless franchise with Buckets of AFL Money! He's more of a man if he goes. Give me a spell:rolleyes:

I stated he's more of a man because this is obviously a very difficult decision. I doubt whether you have ever been in a like situation. I'd like to see you scrabbling along on all fours over 5 million dollars. Give me a break thinking you are some kind of loyal guardian of the club. He is more of a man because others have taken the carrot without a second thought for the club and because it honestly seems like it is a genuinally a difficult decision (5m vs the club) so good on him for having some loyalty when many others offered far less haven't.

I don't know how we could get Dangerfield but it has been discussed in earlier posts so I am asking you '...'.

Thanks for your insightful reply.

[1eyedog]

Disagree entirely. There are other aspects in life than money!
Why have other players knocked them back?Yeah we'll get a pick but lose a probable capt. Along the way.We'll have lost two handy footballers along the way, yet some clubs have lost none! Great System :mad:

Tell that to Jarrod Harbrow and remember that it is 5m yeah?

He won't be a captain he's a cement head, have you ever spoken to him? We'll lose a very good player instead.

[stefoid]

How in blazes would we get Dangerfield? Here you go Adelaide we get pick 20 something, give us Dangerfield! Says more about his character if he stays than goes, future leader of an institution that's been around since 1883. Not some unloved soulless franchise with Buckets of AFL Money! He's more of a man if he goes. Give me a spell:rolleyes:

Dangerfield is ex-geelong falcon and there is talk of him 'going home' yada yada and he came out and said 'if craig goes, I go' for whatever reason you want to read into that.

So if push came to shove, we would be as well placed as anyone to offer low draft picks given our current dubious position with the saints as lowest ranked victorian teams on the ladder.

Although I guess the go-home factor might be swayed a bit by the millions of dollars factor if GWS entered the bidding for his services.

[LostDoggy]

Dangerfield is ex-geelong falcon and there is talk of him 'going home' yada yada and he came out and said 'if craig goes, I go' for whatever reason you want to read into that.

So if push came to shove, we would be as well placed as anyone to offer low draft picks given our current dubious position with the saints as lowest ranked victorian teams on the ladder.

Although I guess the go-home factor might be swayed a bit by the millions of dollars factor if GWS entered the bidding for his services.

Yeah, what if GWS signed both Ward AND Dangerfield?

[G-Mo77]

If the price is going to get to high I really hope Ward just takes the money and runs. I hope it doesn't sound like I want Ward to go because that couldn't be further from the truth but I don't want to see our club overpaying someone and letting the next player forced to move on because he can't afford him. It's an old cliché but the club is bigger than the player. If we get into a bidding war with these plastic clubs it will become very gloomy in the not to distant future.

[LostDoggy]

How could you knock the money (rumored) back? you would be crazy.

[AndrewP6]

How could you knock the money (rumored) back? you would be crazy.

As others have noted, money's not everything.

"He who dies with the most toys, still dies"

[LostDoggy]

money can't buy you love.

In China, there is the concept of 'social capital'

Has anyone calculated how much social capital Callan stands to collect if he stays?
.

**Off-topic alert:**

All good points GD, and there is certainly the concept of 'social capital' in China, just as it exists all around the world and has done ever since the dawn of society, but the actual concept of non-economic capital (among others, cultural, social, symbolic) was first properly described academically by Bourdieu, a French sociologist, and developed by political scientists in the US and France. The phrase is only around a hundred years old (coined by someone other than Bourdieu)

[ReLoad]

As others have noted, money's not everything.

"He who dies with the most toys, still dies"

"He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword" comes to mind too, dunno how that affects Callan given he lives by the Whitten Oval.

[1eyedog]

As others have noted, money's not everything.

"He who dies with the most toys, still dies"

Yes but it is a long way in front of what comes second.

[AndrewP6]

Yes but it is a long way in front of what comes second.

Not for all ;)

[LostDoggy]

I have been told by a preety reliable source that as of a week ago Callan is staying. Going by my source our offer is upwards of 450k and the promise of the captaincy In no more than two years. You can choose to believe me or shoot me down. I for one dont know how we will have the money but one would think a senior player has to be traded. My man is close to the family and did suggest that Callans mum did enjoy the spotlight and the attention of her piece in the paper. (he said that not in a bad way). He is fairly certain nothing has changed but time will tell i spose.

[bornadog]

I have been told by a preety reliable source that as of a week ago Callan is staying. Going by my source our offer is upwards of 450k and the promise of the captaincy In no more than two years. You can choose to believe me or shoot me down. I for one dont know how we will have the money but one would think a senior player has to be traded. My man is close to the family and did suggest that Callans mum did enjoy the spotlight and the attention of her piece in the paper. (he said that not in a bad way). He is fairly certain nothing has changed but time will tell i spose.

450k is half of what GWS is offering, but after the tax man takes half its only 225k, so if you look at it that way, he may stay.

[LostDoggy]

450k is half of what GWS is offering, but after the tax man takes half its only 225k, so if you look at it that way, he may stay.

Lets hope bornadog but can we afford it? Im not sure we should be paying for potential.

[Greystache]

450k is half of what GWS is offering, but after the tax man takes half its only 225k, so if you look at it that way, he may stay.

That's a key point IMO, and you'd hope some of the people at the club with strong commercial acumen would be talking to Callan in real terms. However if he moves to Sydney but continues to list his permanent address in Melbourne he could qualify for living away from home allowance (lafha), which would make a massive difference to his take home and blow that theory out of the water.

[1eyedog]

Not for all ;)

Ha Ha I'm glad to see that there are still some real people out there AP6 :cool:

[LostDoggy]

Was thinking of that too. It puts him into Ablett compo range which would be more than fair compo for him (though perhaps just makes up for us getting screwed on Harbrow).

Though Ward remains one of my favourtite players and would be very unhappy to see him go.

Anyone know the answer on this? If Cal got the $4.5mill touted do we get 2 1st rounders or is the compensation again at the AFL's pleasure? Everyone wins if we get the former (including Cal) and we can bend over and wait for the red-hot poker if its the later....

[westbulldog]

He is a very good player but not yet elite. If he chases the money let him go with our best wishes. Another kid from somewhere will step up, always has always will. I don't agree with the promise of captaincy , that has to be earned and similarly I wouldn't overpay him to stay. I recall that Chris Grant was offered a blank cheque by Port Adelaide (?) and chose to stay. Grant is thus highly respected by Footscray people and other team's supporters. Loyalty and respect are not delivered by a cheque.

[divvydan]

I have been told by a preety reliable source that as of a week ago Callan is staying. Going by my source our offer is upwards of 450k and the promise of the captaincy In no more than two years. You can choose to believe me or shoot me down. I for one dont know how we will have the money but one would think a senior player has to be traded. My man is close to the family and did suggest that Callans mum did enjoy the spotlight and the attention of her piece in the paper. (he said that not in a bad way). He is fairly certain nothing has changed but time will tell i spose.

Not saying I don't believe you but the club would have to be pretty stupid to make an offer like that, especially with regards to the captaincy. It sets an awful precedence for future players coming out of contract, which will be all the time with the new free agency system coming into place.

Obviously, assuming that a new CBA is agreed upon by the players and AFL, the average salary will go up from its current level of around $210k and if it's going to be much higher, i.e. $300k average then I could possibly accept $450k, however, he's only a potentially very good player and currently only a good player and to pay that sort of money to a player who's performances (imo) don't yet warrant anywhere near that amount is a very risky and short sighted move. Indeed it could well lead to more salary cap problems down the track, thus losing other players who are then not able to receive an appropriate wage for their performances.

[Remi Moses]

Eade saying Callan has leadership qualities and is our clubs Joel Selwood says they're up for a fight! I guess the likes of Thomas, Pendlebury, Dustin Martin Marc Murphy, Joel Selwood are not consumed by the big dollars.Showed loyality over the ridiculous salaries offered.

[Mofra]

Grant is thus highly respected by Footscray people and other team's supporters. Loyalty and respect are not delivered by a cheque.
You can't buy respect - it's not like Grant is suffering financially either, given he just shelled out for a home on The Strand.

If Ward's listening to good advisers, the foinancial difference may not be that great given (I'd assume) the business network in Melbourne would be much more firendly to AFL types than the Sydney network.

[cinder]

The days where Chris Grant stayed for 20 cents pocket money are certainly gone aren't they ... :( mind you, look where Port Adelaide are at the moment. Still they did win a Premiership ...

[Sockeye Salmon]

You can't buy respect - it's not like Grant is suffering financially either, given he just shelled out for a home on The Strand.

If Ward's listening to good advisers, the foinancial difference may not be that great given (I'd assume) the business network in Melbourne would be much more firendly to AFL types than the Sydney network.

Interesting one.

I read somewhere that Grant did well out of the loyalty theme - he had a range with the 'Successories' stores under 'Loyalty. He also spoke at coporate functions using loyalty as the theme.


From a playing perspective, I have no doubt that had Grant taken the money he would today be a 3 times premiership captain and recognised as the greatest CHB of his generation (with Tredrea in the side Grant would have been able to prove how brilliant a CHB he was).

[Curly5]

Eade saying Callan has leadership qualities and is our clubs Joel Selwood says they're up for a fight! I guess the likes of Thomas, Pendlebury, Dustin Martin Marc Murphy, Joel Selwood are not consumed by the big dollars.Showed loyality over the ridiculous salaries offered.

Or else they have been assured of more money through "other means". :rolleyes:

[1eyedog]

Eade saying Callan has leadership qualities and is our clubs Joel Selwood says they're up for a fight! I guess the likes of Thomas, Pendlebury, Dustin Martin Marc Murphy, Joel Selwood are not consumed by the big dollars.Showed loyality over the ridiculous salaries offered.

All of these players play for clubs that have the capacity to put some extra mayo on to sweeten the deal through third party payments. We don't.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think the AFL should've put more thought into the unique uncontracted player trading rules for the two new clubs and the impact it has on existing clubs.
For me both GC & GWS have received very generous draft concessions that ensure that the youth end of their list development for the long term is well covered.

The rule that allows them to poach up to 1 uncontracted player from each of the club really should've been about ensuring that the new clubs could fill out their list balance by obtaining players of a mid twenties age and over.

For mine the rule should've stated that they can poach 1 uncontracted player from each team who is 24 yrs of age or over.
This would've ensured that the clubs losing players are not losing their players of the future. And on the flipside would still allow for the new clubs to grab the marquee players with still plenty of football in front of them that would give them some immediate experience and name recognition to excite their supporters.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The problem is that the AFL pays the compensation.

Their draft picks should be more spread out throughout the draft rather than all in the first round. They should then have to pony up a pick of their own as compensation.

Compensation should be related directly to their salary with a bias for a players age.
If you want to pay a 20yo $7m for 6 years he must be a gun so pay up big.

This would force them to be a bit more circumspect about what they offer.

[Dry Rot]

If we keep ward, then a term of his new contract must be to grow a good mo.

We'll then have a perfect facsimile of a seventies porn star.

[LostDoggy]

Ward has to stay , I want to see him headbutt the Beard again , I,m sure the subsonic pressure wave has circled the planet at least once

.

[LostDoggy]

Not saying I don't believe you but the club would have to be pretty stupid to make an offer like that, especially with regards to the captaincy. It sets an awful precedence for future players coming out of contract, which will be all the time with the new free agency system coming into place.

Obviously, assuming that a new CBA is agreed upon by the players and AFL, the average salary will go up from its current level of around $210k and if it's going to be much higher, i.e. $300k average then I could possibly accept $450k, however, he's only a potentially very good player and currently only a good player and to pay that sort of money to a player who's performances (imo) don't yet warrant anywhere near that amount is a very risky and short sighted move. Indeed it could well lead to more salary cap problems down the track, thus losing other players who are then not able to receive an appropriate wage for their performances.

Normally I'd agree with you, but the new teams throw up a situation that's not normal: with the exception of the soulless twits in navy blue, it seems rare for a player to be recruited directly into the captaincy, but of course GWS has no captain so they're able to dangle that in addition to the moolah. In that light, I've got no problem with the club telling Callan he'll be looked at for captain at the next go-round. These inflated pressures are not a permanent issue and in years to come things should return to normal.

[Jasper]

The problem is that the AFL pays the compensation.

Their draft picks should be more spread out throughout the draft rather than all in the first round. They should then have to pony up a pick of their own as compensation.

Compensation should be related directly to their salary with a bias for a players age.
If you want to pay a 20yo $7m for 6 years he must be a gun so pay up big.

This would force them to be a bit more circumspect about what they offer.

You are making an assumption that the AFL cares whether clubs such as ours succeed. What the AFL wants is instant success for GWS and GC, and they will get it at our expense. So why would they implement rules that even remotely look like curbing GWS/GC success...?

[Topdog]

Believe me SS is under no such illusion.

[Remi Moses]

All of these players play for clubs that have the capacity to put some extra mayo on to sweeten the deal through third party payments. We don't.

Why Can't we? Surely we have plenty of savvy business types.

[divvydan]

Normally I'd agree with you, but the new teams throw up a situation that's not normal: with the exception of the soulless twits in navy blue, it seems rare for a player to be recruited directly into the captaincy, but of course GWS has no captain so they're able to dangle that in addition to the moolah. In that light, I've got no problem with the club telling Callan he'll be looked at for captain at the next go-round. These inflated pressures are not a permanent issue and in years to come things should return to normal.

I take your point but the problem is that, as far as I'm aware, Ward isn't even in the leadership group and someone like Higgins has been in there since 2009 and at least internally, must be seen as a likely future leader of the club and offering Ward a future captaincy would probably be a huge slap in the face for him.

You're right that the circumstances are exceptional but with the advent of free agency, whilst this won't be a problem to the same extent, particularly for players as young as Ward, there will still be ongoing issues with player retention and I don't think captaincy should ever be used as an incentive, mainly because a player who would stay as captain but wouldn't stay without the captaincy is not the sort of player I would want captaining the club.

[stefoid]

Can I ask a question: If ward goes and we use the compo pick in the same year as father/son selections, must we use the compo pick on the F/S or only our 'normal' pick?

[The Coon Dog]

Can I ask a question: If ward goes and we use the compo pick in the same year as father/son selections, must we use the compo pick on the F/S or only our 'normal' pick?

Let's try & answer that using common sense.

Firstly F/S selections are completed before any trades. Therefore the use of a pick would have used in a subsequent year if it had a bearing on F/S.

If you then have 2 first round selections in the subsequent year one could certainly be used in order to secure a F/S selection. I guess it depends on how good the prospective player is (ie is he worth a first rounder) & whether any other teams bid (& where).

Potentially we could have 2 first round selections in the 2012 draft. Lets hypothetically say one is pick 15 & the other is at the end of the first round, say pick 19. If a side with a pick 1-14 bids, our next available pick would be 15, which we would have to use if we wished to secure the F/S.

If no one 1-14 bids, we use 15 on whoever we want, then it depends on picks 16-18. Our next available pick is pick 19 & so on for each subsequent round.

The key words as I understand them are 'next available selection',

I might be way off beam & if so I apologise.

[stefoid]

Let's try & answer that using common sense.

Firstly F/S selections are completed before any trades. Therefore the use of a pick would have used in a subsequent year if it had a bearing on F/S.

If you then have 2 first round selections in the subsequent year one could certainly be used in order to secure a F/S selection. I guess it depends on how good the prospective player is (ie is he worth a first rounder) & whether any other teams bid (& where).

Potentially we could have 2 first round selections in the 2012 draft. Lets hypothetically say one is pick 15 & the other is at the end of the first round, say pick 19. If a side with a pick 1-14 bids, our next available pick would be 15, which we would have to use if we wished to secure the F/S.

If no one 1-14 bids, we use 15 on whoever we want, then it depends on picks 16-18. Our next available pick is pick 19 & so on for each subsequent round.

The key words as I understand them are 'next available selection',

I might be way off beam & if so I apologise.

Common sense? why start now? :)

So once activated, the compo pick becomes a normal pick and subject to F/S bidding?

We have a bunch of F/S coming up, and might end up with another two at once like we did last time (hunter and beasly) To take full advantage of having multiple f/s' in the same year you dont actually want to have multiple early picks available to burn on them when you could get them for later round picks anyway.

[Greystache]

Given that Will Beasley isn't even playing footy this year, and at beat he was a very raw prospect, I doubt he'll come into calculations for an early F/S selection.

[chef]

Let's try & answer that using common sense.

Firstly F/S selections are completed before any trades. Therefore the use of a pick would have used in a subsequent year if it had a bearing on F/S.

If you then have 2 first round selections in the subsequent year one could certainly be used in order to secure a F/S selection. I guess it depends on how good the prospective player is (ie is he worth a first rounder) & whether any other teams bid (& where).

Potentially we could have 2 first round selections in the 2012 draft. Lets hypothetically say one is pick 15 & the other is at the end of the first round, say pick 19. If a side with a pick 1-14 bids, our next available pick would be 15, which we would have to use if we wished to secure the F/S.

If no one 1-14 bids, we use 15 on whoever we want, then it depends on picks 16-18. Our next available pick is pick 19 & so on for each subsequent round.

The key words as I understand them are 'next available selection',

I might be way off beam & if so I apologise.

So if we get a first round pick for Ward at the end of this season and plan to use it in the 2012 draft is it true we have to nominate that during the season or can we wait until right before the draft?

I have heard we have to do it during the season(maybe early?).

[The Coon Dog]

So if we get a first round pick for Ward at the end of this season and plan to use it in the 2012 draft is it true we have to nominate that during the season or can we wait until right before the draft?

I have heard we have to do it during the season(maybe early?).

I seem to recall you have to state prior to the commencement of the season if you plan to use a 'banked' selection.