Sherman banned for vilification

[G-Mo77]

http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/justin%20sherman_246s.jpg

WESTERN Bulldogs forward Justin Sherman will spend four weeks in the VFL after he admitted he had racially vilified an unnamed opposition player during Saturday's clash with Gold Coast.

AFL football operations manager Adrian Anderson said the two parties had been part of a conciliation meeting and it was determined that:

A matter between Western Bulldogs player Justin Sherman and a Gold Coast Suns player was conciliated and settled. Player Sherman admitted he had racially vilified an opposition player and he apologised to the Suns' player;

Justin Sherman will attend an education program under the guidelines of the player rules under rule 30 covering racial and religious vilification;

Justin Sherman has agreed that he will serve a four-match suspension to cover rounds 15-18 of the 2011 Toyota AFL Premiership Season. He may play at VFL level during that period;

Justin Sherman will make a donation of $5000 to the charity nominated by the Gold Coast Suns:

The Gold Coast Suns player accepted Sherman’s apology and said the other outcomes of the conciliation, as outlined above, were acceptable to him to conclude this matter;

No person involved in the conciliation agreement, the AFL, the Western Bulldogs FC or the Gold Coast Suns FC may publicly identify the Gold Coast player involved

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/117220/default.aspx

[bornadog]

Has apologized for his action when he racially vilified a Suns Player

[G-Mo77]

Whoops, could someone move this to the appropriate board. :o

[bornadog]

Very dissapointing:mad:

[bulldogsthru&thru]

if we could all choose one player to who had said it i think he would be number 1 on most lists! no big loss there

[BulldogBelle]

Has apologized for his action when he racially vilified a Suns Player



Hear the AFL are going to host a press confererance at 4pm

He will probably also be fined

Ouch

Grant or Vez in for sure this week for Sherman

[bornadog]

if we could all choose one player to who had said it i think he would be number 1 on most lists! no big loss there

Really why would you say that? Do you know him? (genuine question not smart A)

[LostDoggy]

Looks like a spot opened up for Grant now

[G-Mo77]

Very dissapointing:mad:

Yeah it is but am I alone in thinking 4 weeks is just a tad OTT. Someone who is found to take drugs gets a 3 strike policy and is hidden away so know one will find out but yet if you call someone a name it warrants a harsher penalty that deliberately knocking someone out on the field or shooting up cocaine.

I'm against racially vilifying someone but thinks it's far to much of a penalty.

[LostDoggy]

I'm glad he has gone public to stop all the speculation. the Suns forum had said it was Callan Ward.

[LostDoggy]

What I can't figure out is ......... we have a number of indigenious guys at the club now. How can he not know that it is wrong? I mean, I know in the heat of battle, etc., but surely players have figured out how to sledge another player without crossing the boundaries of racial intolerance? :mad:

[Mantis]

Yeah it is but am I alone in thinking 4 weeks is just a tad OTT. Someone who is found to take drugs gets a 3 strike policy and is hidden away so know one will find out but yet if you call someone a name it warrants a harsher penalty that deliberately knocking someone out on the field or shooting up cocaine.

I'm against racially vilifying someone but thinks it's far to much of a penalty.

Agree.

This penalty is a bloody disgrace.

[The Coon Dog]

Yeah it is but am I alone in thinking 4 weeks is just a tad OTT. Someone who is found to take drugs gets a 3 strike policy and is hidden away so know one will find out but yet if you call someone a name it warrants a harsher penalty that deliberately knocking someone out on the field or shooting up cocaine.

I'm against racially vilifying someone but thinks it's far to much of a penalty.

Yup, or even giving someone an elbow behind play & you only get 2 weeks!

[bornadog]

Hear the AFL are going to host a press confererance at 4pm

He will probably also be fined

Ouch

Grant or Vez in for sure this week for Sherman

He will pay $5000 to a charity nominated by Suns

[G-Mo77]

I'm glad I'm not alone. He'll be vilified for the rest of his career now. IMO that is penalty enough.

[bornadog]

Yeah it is but am I alone in thinking 4 weeks is just a tad OTT. Someone who is found to take drugs gets a 3 strike policy and is hidden away so know one will find out but yet if you call someone a name it warrants a harsher penalty that deliberately knocking someone out on the field or shooting up cocaine.

I'm against racially vilifying someone but thinks it's far to much of a penalty.

Plus he is paying $5,000 to a charity of Suns choice.

[Greystache]

Pretty poor behaviour from Sherman, it's not as if he's a kid. A player who's played over 100 games should know better.

[The Pie Man]

I'm so disappointed, but at least he seems to have taken it on the chin and apologised at the first opportunity - you're right G-Mo77, living with being known to have done that is going to be very tough.

I'm also with you guys in thinking that 4 weeks seems a little out of whack. Penalties for a range of indiscretions in the league seem a little out of whack though.

[whythelongface]

The club should make a stance and stand him down for the rest of the year. There is just no need for these types of comments.

[LostDoggy]

What I can't figure out is ......... we have a number of indigenious guys at the club now. How can he not know that it is wrong? I mean, I know in the heat of battle, etc., but surely players have figured out how to sledge another player without crossing the boundaries of racial intolerance? :mad:

How do you know it was made toward and indigenous player?

[LostDoggy]

How do you know it was made toward and indigenous player?

It was said in the press that it was

[Ghost Dog]

Serves him right.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm so disappointed, but at least he seems to have taken it on the chin and apologised at the first opportunity - you're right G-Mo77, living with being known to have done that is going to be very tough.

I'm also with you guys in thinking that 4 weeks seems a little out of whack. Penalties for a range of indiscretions in the league seem a little out of whack though.

If everyone seems to forget about Reiwoldt's naked bod all over the internet, I reckon they are gonna forget about this soon enough....

[aker39]

According to Anderson, all parties agreed to suspension.

If person vilified does not agree, it goes to the tribunal

[angelopetraglia]

Idiot.

What about the diversity just on our list alone? e.g. Stack. Hill. Liberatore. Skinner. Giansiracusa. Murhpy. Jones. Markovic.

He is basically villifying his own squad. Disgace. A sad day for our club.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Whilst I certainly don't condone what Justin has said and done, I certainly HOPE we don't fully hang him out to dry in this board. Suerly we have ALL said or done things that we aren't proud of & regret. 4 weeks suspension & $5000 fine is a just penalty IMHO

[Mofra]

if we could all choose one player to who had said it i think he would be number 1 on most lists! no big loss there
I think we need pace & outside run.

Serves him right though - no place for that stuff on or off the field

[bornadog]

Stevo has named the player on Twitter.

[angelopetraglia]

Stevo has named the player on Twitter.

He is of Nigerian background.

[aker39]

He is of Nigerian background.

He has named Wilkinson as the player.

[aker39]

Here's the Western Bulldogs statement.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2011/westernbulldogsnewsfeatures/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/117226/default.aspx

[Ozza]

Well you can't defend the indefensivable behaviour/comments.

It's really disappointing. And nobody will be more disappointed in him, than himself.

The agreed punishment between the parties reflects how serious an issue it is.

[bornadog]

Can't believe this has happened.

[LostDoggy]

Whilst I certainly don't condone what Justin has said and done, I certainly HOPE we don't fully hang him out to dry in this board. Suerly we have ALL said or done things that we aren't proud of & regret. 4 weeks suspension & $5000 fine is a just penalty IMHO
I agree 100%, I hope what was said justifies the penalty. Have some concern if there could of been a over reaction.

[LostDoggy]

He is an idiot and deserves to be punished but 4 weeks is excessive would have been better off clocking him.

[bornadog]

He is an idiot and deserves to be punished but 4 weeks is excessive would have been better off clocking him.

The bulldogs suggested the 4 weeks and fine and GC accepted it.

[Greystache]

He has named Wilkinson as the player.

It was always going to be him, you could see the way some players were roughing him up, obviously Sherman doesn't know the difference.

[LostDoggy]

I'm dreading the Sherman trade more and more every week.

[whythelongface]

I agree 100%, I hope what was said justifies the penalty. Have some concern if there could of been a over reaction.

There is no over reaction when it comes to racial vilification. He is lucky to get only 4 weeks.

[w3design]

I strongly disagree with any suggestion that this is an over reaction. Racism is a blight. I am so disappointed that our club is involved. The penalty is more than justified. Congrats if it is correct that we suggested and initiated the penalty instead of hiding behind weasel words and protecting someone has done wrong.

Look around our heartland where every race lives side by side. I am proud when I see young Sudanese kids walking around with our jumpers & scarves. We should be, and have been, role models for anti racism with our community focus and programs. This is a sad day for our club and I hope it doesn't undo the respect we have earned as a socially progressive organization.

[LostDoggy]

Get off your high horses those calling for the rest of the year etc. Admit you've never made a mistake. It was wrong by him.

[LostDoggy]

I'm dreading the Sherman trade more and more every week.

I think hes been something we've really needed, apart from whats just happened obviously.
He's been more good than bad (football wise).

[MrMahatma]

Harsh penalty prob decided by the AFL's PR dept.

Still, stupid thing for Sherm to do so hopefully he learns.

Our recruits from up nth aren't making our PR team's job any easier!

[bornadog]

Harsh penalty prob decided by the AFL's PR dept.

Still, stupid thing for Sherm to do so hopefully he learns.

Our recruits from up nth aren't making our PR team's job any easier!

No, the penalty was put forward by the Club and GC accepted.

[aker39]

This is a sad day for our club and I hope it doesn't undo the respect we have earned as a socially progressive organization.

Why would it.

An individual within our organisation has done the wrong thing. Our club has shown how much it abhors this by punishing the player and stating that it is totally unacceptable.

[Scorlibo]

Sorry but does any one know what he said? Without knowing what he said I'm pretty sure no one should be abusing Sherman. Obviously racism is a complete no-no, yet there are very, very fine lines on the issue and it might be the case that Sherman crossing the line was simply clumsy. We know from when he first arrived at the club that he can imply something through clumsy language without meaning to.

[LostDoggy]

I think hes been something we've really needed, apart from whats just happened obviously.
He's been more good than bad (football wise).

You think so? He is a show pony on the field. Apart from the Freo game many of his goals are soft/goal square type. Not sure he works hard enough either. He provides us with run we've needed but we gave up a bit for him.

Off field he has been a disaster. Classic example of a footballer that should keep his mouth shut apart from saying the cliches.

[LostDoggy]

The club should make a stance and stand him down for the rest of the year. There is just no need for these types of comments.

I don't agree with this. 4 weeks is enough.


The bulldogs suggested the 4 weeks and fine and GC accepted it.

The fact GC (and by extension, Wilkinson) accepted the penalty indicates the penalty is harsh enough to make amends for that particular incident. I just hope he goes further than this and make some further efforts at redemption.


Get off your high horses those calling for the rest of the year etc. Admit you've never made a mistake. It was wrong by him.

Whilst I agree with a year being too much, you can hardly ask those slamming racism to get off their high horses. They've a right to feel let down.

[bornadog]

You think so? He is a show pony on the field. Apart from the Freo game many of his goals are soft/goal square type. Not sure he works hard enough either. He provides us with run we've needed but we gave up a bit for him.

Off field he has been a disaster. Classic example of a footballer that should keep his mouth shut apart from saying the cliches.

I think you are being harsh on him, Sherman is ranked 9th in the AFL, yes out of over 600 players for scoring assists.

[whythelongface]

Get off your high horses those calling for the rest of the year etc. Admit you've never made a mistake. It was wrong by him.

Nothing to do with getting on one's high horse. If this happened in a workplace the employee making derogatory remarks could well be sacked. This should be no different within this work environment.

It is more than a mistake.

[Ozza]

Its disappointing for everyone involved.

I feel for Sherman who will get a hard time because of this mistake - for the rest of his career. Without knowing him, I'm willing to give Sherman the benefit of the doubt that it was a 'heat of the moment' mistake - and that it is only a blemish on his otherwise good character.

But the player from the Suns, if I'm not mistaken - is playing his first AFL match, and gets racially villified....its disgusting - and I feel sorry for him too.

I don't think the punishment is excessive whatsoever - and on the surface - both clubs have handled it pretty well.

For those who think along the lines of "What's said on the ground, should stay on the ground" - should attempt to stumble across the modern game at some point.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Really why would you say that? Do you know him? (genuine question not smart A)

sorry i meant who we would rather rubbed out for 4 weeks.

i dont know if he was more likely to say such things i just meant he would be the least missed out of our current 22 IMO

[LostDoggy]

Yeah it is but am I alone in thinking 4 weeks is just a tad OTT. Someone who is found to take drugs gets a 3 strike policy and is hidden away so know one will find out but yet if you call someone a name it warrants a harsher penalty that deliberately knocking someone out on the field or shooting up cocaine.

I'm against racially vilifying someone but thinks it's far to much of a penalty.


Yup, or even giving someone an elbow behind play & you only get 2 weeks!

Racially vilifying somebody — especially a first gamer — is far worse in my opinion than smoking some pot or giving somebody an elbow behind play.

[immortalmike]

It was stupid but the penalty is harsh. It should be remembered that one stupid comment does not make someone racist. Also for those who stand in judgement, remember the last time you said or did something stupid in the heat of the moment.

But with all that being said it was a dumb thing to do by someone who seems to have form doing dumb things (maybe he lived up in the deep north too long). I feel bad for the GC player involved and I do give Justin credit for manning up and taking the punishment on the chin.

[LostDoggy]

You think so? He is a show pony on the field. Apart from the Freo game many of his goals are soft/goal square type. Not sure he works hard enough either. He provides us with run we've needed but we gave up a bit for him.

Off field he has been a disaster. Classic example of a footballer that should keep his mouth shut apart from saying the cliches.

We don't have many show pony's in our team. He provides good run and has great scoring ability. Exactly what we needed.

[Remi Moses]

Made a big mistake , now he pays for it! Everyone makes them and hopefully Justin learns a harsh lesson. Been handled well IMO. As for Sherman the footballer, been a tad disappointing but I'd reckon he's a good footballer in a team traveling well and looks a little average in one travelling ordinary.

[LostDoggy]

Nothing to do with getting on one's high horse. If this happened in a workplace the employee making derogatory remarks could well be sacked. This should be no different within this work environment.

It is more than a mistake.

As Ozza said, it's highly likely that it was made in the heat of the moment. I don't condone it or think it's right but you seem to want to hang him out to dry.

He's been suspended for 4 weeks, he has to make a $5k donation to a charity, he has to complete a course along the lines of racial vilification. He's going to feel like shit and wear this for the rest of his life.

What do you feel would be a suitable punishment for him? Playing rights taken away ala Cousins? Gaol sentence?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Racially vilifying somebody — especially a first gamer — is far worse in my opinion than smoking some pot or giving somebody an elbow behind play.

And here's my mum telling me all those years ' sticks and stones ...'

The world's gone mad.

[Chicago1]

According to the Bulldogs site: "Justin will also volunteer for the Red Dust Role Models program an initiative that provides mentoring and support in remote indigenous communities."

I don't understand this. If Sherman vilified a person of African(Nigerian) descent, as noted in this thread, what does this have to do with the Aboriginal community? I hope the club and/or the AFL don't think people of African descent are the same race as Indigenous Australians. Perhaps with the growing number of people of African descent in Melbourne, something to help the Sudanese in the Footscray area might have been more appropriate. Just a thought.

At least Sherman has apologised and owned up to his wrongdoing. The four weeks seems right for what he did.

[LostDoggy]

Whilst I agree with a year being too much, you can hardly ask those slamming racism to get off their high horses. They've a right to feel let down.

So it's open slather? They have no right to feel let down. How does Sherman owe them anything?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's poor by Sherman and it's a fair punishment.

However, the reactions of some on this forum tells me they haven't been in local leagues or in general social environments enough. It happens all the time, and often much worse (eg. physical abuse).

Sherman does need to be made an example of, though. Not good enough.

[bornadog]

And here's my mum telling me all those years ' sticks and stones ...'

.

Racial vilification is worse than sticks and stones, it has other connotations.

[azabob]

Racially vilifying somebody — especially a first gamer — is far worse in my opinion than smoking some pot or giving somebody an elbow behind play.

How do you know it was the first gamer?

RE the donation can he claim it at tax time?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

No, the penalty was put forward by the Club and GC accepted.

Why dig a hole for ourselves?

Should have let Sherman's punishment be handled by the AFL.

[ledge]

In my day it was just trying to put a player off his game, he would do the same back and you just got on with it, and you both knew it was just trying to psyche each other out and meant nothing.
Afterwards you all had a beer and didnt even remember what was said or you both laughed about it.

Okay things have changed and you can all have a go at me but whatever happened to a bit of gobbing off, I copped it and mainly looked forward to it, whether my race, parents etc.
I heard some real funny ones and you knew they werent personal.
I do have one question if its racially driven why arent the people feeling villified proud of their heritage?
As Nicky Winmar did by lifting his top, yes im black or aboriginal and i am proud of it.
We should all be proud of our race, I was born in the UK and growing up here, still cop the pommy "B" 40 years later, I take it as a plus not a minus.
I think the unwritten rule was dont get personal, eg if you knew something had happened to the family and focussed on that it was a no no, if he did that yep give him a good going over.

The world has changed since my day and I suppose rules are rules and all players are schooled on not doing it, Sherman did it so he is guilty but I think a few of us are going over the top with being remembered for it and its a blight on the club, i am backing its gone and forgotten in 4 weeks.
I certainly have nothing against Sherman just dissappointed its one of our players and he should have known better.

[Dancin' Douggy]

If everyone seems to forget about Reiwoldt's naked bod all over the internet, I reckon they are gonna forget about this soon enough....

Not a single person has forgotten that.
And the weight on Riewoldt's shoulders looks to be colossal.

[LostDoggy]

I strongly disagree with any suggestion that this is an over reaction. Racism is a blight. I am so disappointed that our club is involved. The penalty is more than justified. Congrats if it is correct that we suggested and initiated the penalty instead of hiding behind weasel words and protecting someone has done wrong.

Look around our heartland where every race lives side by side. I am proud when I see young Sudanese kids walking around with our jumpers & scarves. We should be, and have been, role models for anti racism with our community focus and programs. This is a sad day for our club and I hope it doesn't undo the respect we have earned as a socially progressive organization.


/\ /\ /\ +1

I hope that when Justin goes to the remote communities as part of the Red Dust Role Model Program he gets a real feel for how big the journey is for our talented indigenous players , it would be good to have Zeph go with him as well

.

[bornadog]

Why dig a hole for ourselves?

Should have let Sherman's punishment be handled by the AFL.

Sherman accepted the punishment, but he could have let it go to the tribunal. Would you want the tribunal to handle this one. Knowing our luck he could have got 10 weeks from those muppets.

[GVGjr]

It's poor by Sherman and it's a fair punishment.

However, the reactions of some on this forum tells me they haven't been in local leagues or in general social environments enough. It happens all the time, and often much worse (eg. physical abuse).

Sherman does need to be made an example of, though. Not good enough.

I'm with you. 4 weeks is an appropriate suspension and the fine and the eduction that he needs to complete should get the message across loud and clear.
He's been around elite football long enough to have known it wasn't acceptable and I think the club, the Suns and the AFL have made the right call.

[whythelongface]

As Ozza said, it's highly likely that it was made in the heat of the moment. I don't condone it or think it's right but you seem to want to hang him out to dry.

He's been suspended for 4 weeks, he has to make a $5k donation to a charity, he has to complete a course along the lines of racial vilification. He's going to feel like shit and wear this for the rest of his life.

What do you feel would be a suitable punishment for him? Playing rights taken away ala Cousins? Gaol sentence?

Like I said he should be at least stood down for the rest of the year. Personally I would sack him but that is IMHO.

If this happened in many a workplace the consequences would be significant. Many a workplace would terminate a person's contract immediately. It is bringing the workplace into disrepute (in this instance the WBFC) Particularly as there has been such a strong focus on this area within the AFL any misdemeanours in this area should really involve some significant penalties including termination of contract.

Gaol sentence??? Now you are taking the piss.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Sherman accepted the punishment, but he could have let it go to the tribunal. Would you want the tribunal to handle this one. Knowing our luck he could have got 10 weeks from those muppets.

Sherman put himself in a position where he can't really argue the depth of his punishment. He has to take what comes his way, but the club should have shouldered some of the weight, by leaving it up to the AFL to decide.

I don't see any other club 'volunteering' punishments for their players indiscretions.

Whilst it's a sensitive topic, we're too 'nice' of a club. Nobody gives a shit what the Dogs offered, so if our PR people think it's positive to take initiative, they're dreaming. We should have taken the punishment from the AFL and said "We agree, we're disappointed etc."

[whythelongface]

It's poor by Sherman and it's a fair punishment.

However, the reactions of some on this forum tells me they haven't been in local leagues or in general social environments enough. It happens all the time, and often much worse (eg. physical abuse).

Sherman does need to be made an example of, though. Not good enough.

So you know the types of social environments that we have been involved in. I don't think so. Unfortunately I have seen these types of actions both socially and professionally. Professionally they have been dealt with appropriately including termination of contract.

There is no comparison between a local league and a professional sports person who earns his living through his craft. Like I said personally I would sack him but that is IMHO - I don't agree with the punishment received as i don't see that it befits the action. However if all parties involved in the issue have discussed and agreed with the appropriate action then I will simply leave it at that.

[mjp]

Like I said he should be at least stood down for the rest of the year. Personally I would sack him but that is IMHO.

If this happened in many a workplace the consequences would be significant. Many a workplace would terminate a person's contract immediately.

Not sure about this. A program of mediation and education would be followed - but termination for a first offence is pretty unlikely...

[GVGjr]

Not sure about this. A program of mediation and education would be followed - but termination for a first offence is pretty unlikely...

Especially if you are apologetic.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Racial vilification is worse than sticks and stones, it has other connotations.

I can't accept that calling someone names is worse than elbowing someone in the head

[chef]

There is no over reaction when it comes to racial vilification. He is lucky to get only 4 weeks.

Agree with this, nothing worse than a racist.

[chef]

I can't accept that calling someone names is worse than elbowing someone in the head

Are you Anglo?

[w3design]

Being called a pommy B does not have even a tenth of the weight of history that black races have endured but I just don't know where to start with that one.

I just saw Sherman on the news. He appeared devastated and said how inappropriate it was given his close ties with guys like Djekerra, Hill and Jones. He has fully acknowledged he was wrong rather than attempt to justify it as banter, or undercut it by the old Wayne Carey,' IF I have offended anybody..' cop out line, and that is as it should be.

[Maddog37]

Are you Anglo?

Why does his race matter?

[Dancin' Douggy]

I can't accept that calling someone names is worse than elbowing someone in the head

Sockeye. I completely and utterly disagree with you.
That old chestnut, (and I'll quote it in full in case anyone doesn't know it)

"sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"

Is a colossal load of bull$@#t.

Names hurt, they hurt alot, workplace bullying and cyber bullying has caused suicides. Fact.

Racism is about the vilest face of human behaviour and needs to be stamped out completely.

I hope justin Sherman is ashamed and sorry and 4 weeks is OK with me.

[chef]

Why does his race matter?

Didn't sound like something someone from an ethnic minority would say. Being racially abused isn't just being called a name.

[Maddog37]

So only non ethnic Minority people are racists?

[GVGjr]

Names hurt, they hurt alot, workplace bullying and cyber bullying has caused suicides. Fact.


I've listened to Les Twentyman talk about this a couple of times and he provides some compelling examples.

[Sedat]

You think so? He is a show pony on the field. Apart from the Freo game many of his goals are soft/goal square type. Not sure he works hard enough either. He provides us with run we've needed but we gave up a bit for him.

Off field he has been a disaster. Classic example of a footballer that should keep his mouth shut apart from saying the cliches.
I'm with you Chops. He comes to the club and the first time someone sticks a microphone in front of him in Bulldogs colors he mouths off at his former club and coach, then is forced to apologise. This latest issue demonstrates that he is clearly an A-grade moron - if any good can come of this he will knuckle down, shut the hell up and focus on getting a kick.

As for on-field he is far too hot and cold for my liking. I understand why we traded for him with his speed and ability to run and carry, but he is also a very poor decision-maker and is prone to panicking with the ball in hand. He has offered only a very slight upgrade from the Eagle circa 2009-10 up to this point, and quite frankly the Eagle was a far better finisher and gut-runner in his 06-08 prime.

I guess I've never been a Sherman fan and it probably clouds my judgement of him. But to racially villify someone in this supposedly enlighted age is proof that the bloke is a dimwit of the highest order. At least well done to him for acting so swiftly, bypassing the confidential mediation and taking full ownership of his stupidity. Who knows, something like this might end up being the making of him as a player and person.

[ledge]

Being called a pommy B does not have even a tenth of the weight of history that black races have endured but I just don't know where to start with that one.

I just saw Sherman on the news. He appeared devastated and said how inappropriate it was given his close ties with guys like Djekerra, Hill and Jones. He has fully acknowledged he was wrong rather than attempt to justify it as banter, or undercut it by the old Wayne Carey,' IF I have offended anybody..' cop out line, and that is as it should be.

Being called a pommy b and copping all the rest that came with it can be as bad if the person feels villified and besides do any of us know what he actually said?
Whats the old saying? sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me?
Isnt your statement racist in the affect of saying oh pommy b is ok but calling another race something is worse?
Racist is racist you cant separate one racist statement from another just because of race. Thats racist in itself.

[ledge]

I'm with you Chops. He comes to the club and the first time someone sticks a microphone in front of him in Bulldogs colors he mouths off at his former club and coach, then is forced to apologise. This latest issue demonstrates that he is clearly an A-grade moron - if any good can come of this he will knuckle down, shut the hell up and focus on getting a kick.

As for on-field he is far too hot and cold for my liking. I understand why we traded for him with his speed and ability to run and carry, but he is also a very poor decision-maker and is prone to panicking with the ball in hand. He has offered only a very slight upgrade from the Eagle circa 2009-10 up to this point, and quite frankly the Eagle was a far better finisher and gut-runner in his 06-08 prime.

I guess I've never been a Sherman fan and it probably clouds my judgement of him. But to racially villify someone in this supposedly enlighted age is proof that the bloke is a dimwit of the highest order. At least well done to him for acting so swiftly, bypassing the confidential mediation and taking full ownership of his stupidity. Who knows, something like this might end up being the making of him as a player and person.

Has his onfield form got anything to do with this?
Plenty of cement heads in football, clubs dont want them in front of a mike but the press do, they will do anything to get a stupid statement from a footballer who isnt the brightest spark.

Seems he has said something silly ,you dont like him so bring his football abillity into it and pick on that also.
I think this is just a thread on his stupid verbals not his football abillity.

[Sedat]

Seems he has said something silly ,you dont like him so bring his football abillity into it and pick on that also.
I think this is just a thread on his stupid verbals not his football abillity.
Fair call, although I was responding to the on-going discussion about his on-field worth which is contained within this thread. Fair enough to argue that this is not central to the specific issue at hand today.

[GVGjr]

I'm with you Chops. He comes to the club and the first time someone sticks a microphone in front of him in Bulldogs colors he mouths off at his former club and coach, then is forced to apologise. This latest issue demonstrates that he is clearly an A-grade moron - if any good can come of this he will knuckle down, shut the hell up and focus on getting a kick.



The criteria for the famous Rocket 'no dick head' rule might need some rework.

[ledge]

Problem is only the in house know what was said, was it name calling ? was it repeated all day? was it different names every time?
Was it more than name calling? I dont think any of us can give a real opinion on whether it was an appropriate sentance unless we know what was said.

[LostDoggy]

The criteria for the famous Rocket 'no dick head' rule might need some rework.

Given that I believe a fair percentage of the general population are, if we stuck to that rule we wouldn't be able to field a good team.

[ledge]

The criteria for the famous Rocket 'no dick head' rule might need some rework.

Love that staement GVGjr made me laugh when i think of some of our champions we would never have had :D

[Dancin' Douggy]

Being called a pommy b and copping all the rest that came with it can be as bad if the person feels villified and besides do any of us know what he actually said?
Whats the old saying? sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me?
Isnt your statement racist in the affect of saying oh pommy b is ok but calling another race something is worse?
Racist is racist you cant separate one racist statement from another just because of race. Thats racist in itself.

Wow this is such a hot potato.
Hard to even wade in.
Ledge, you're saying basically that you copped it too and then got together after the game and had a beer and a laugh. I imagine a lot of those insults would have really hurt.
But maybe you got to meet your tormentors and realised they didn't really mean it personally.

What if you weren't even allowed into the bar because you were black?

[Flamethrower]

I wonder how Josh Hill, Brennan Stack, Nathan Djerrkura, Zephi Skinner, and Liam Jones feel about Sherman's comments.

I can't believe there are still people today who dont comprehend how ignorant and hurtful comments like this are.

Sherman is lucky he wasn't sacked, and personally I will find it uncomfortable to support a team that he is a member of from now on.

[kruder]

Australians are generally racist in some form or another. Half the time they dont even know they are doing it. Yet in a public forum they like to wear the political correctness hat.

[w3design]

Being called a pommy b and copping all the rest that came with it can be as bad if the person feels villified and besides do any of us know what he actually said?
Whats the old saying? sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me?
Isnt your statement racist in the affect of saying oh pommy b is ok but calling another race something is worse?
Racist is racist you cant separate one racist statement from another just because of race. Thats racist in itself.

Your own statement said that being described as a pommy b was a plus not a minus. For what it's worth, if a person feels offended, that is good enough for me to see it as vilification. You are saying you did not view it as an insult, ok, that's your experience and view.

However it's just not possible to overlook history. Your English heritage has not meant you have had basic human rights denied - the ability to marry who you like, go to the same schools as your peers, even have to use separate toilets, be refused service in coffee shops or bars. These are all experiences of black people within living memory. That is why insults based on race have a completely different connotation to ridiculing someone who has freckles, or is fat, or any of the other arguments that get trotted out.

[Go_Dogs]

According to Anderson, all parties agreed to suspension.

If person vilified does not agree, it goes to the tribunal

Does this mean the AFL did have some input into the decision, or in the very least had to OK it at their end?



Overall I think it's fair and sends the message loud and clear that this sort of behaviour won't be tolerated. An example had to be made. As an aside, I'm sure if it just happened to be someone like Milne or Didak who was the culprit we'd be screaming for a life ban. ;)

[GVGjr]

I wonder how Josh Hill, Brennan Stack, Nathan Djerrkura, Zephi Skinner, and Liam Jones feel about Sherman's comments.

I can't believe there are still people today who dont comprehend how ignorant and hurtful comments like this are.

Sherman is lucky he wasn't sacked, and personally I will find it uncomfortable to support a team that he is a member of from now on.

Whilst not for one second condoning his actions I don't believe you could reasonably have your career terminated for that stupid action as an isolated incident. Once it goes to mediation and you apologise and show remorse then you can't be terminated.
A suspension is the correct start with this.

[ledge]

Your own statement said that being described as a pommy b was a plus not a minus. For what it's worth, if a person feels offended, that is good enough for me to see it as vilification. You are saying you did not view it as an insult, ok, that's your experience and view.

However it's just not possible to overlook history. Your English heritage has not meant you have had basic human rights denied - the ability to marry who you like, go to the same schools as your peers, even have to use separate toilets, be refused service in coffee shops or bars. These are all experiences of black people within living memory. That is why insults based on race have a completely different connotation to ridiculing someone who has freckles, or is fat, or any of the other arguments that get trotted out.

Yes its race where did i mention fat freckle etc no matter what race if it is, insulting a race it is racist,
Apart from that do you know what was said? none of us do. Was it to do with what your pointing out ?
Yes your right i am proud of my heritage personally but others see it different. I suppose you could say I hardened up, take it and give it back.


In fact I think these people you talk about should be more prouder than all of us from what they have been through and how they were strong enough to break through.
Dont take it as an insult take it as a compliment.
Interesting debate.
I heard a story on the coloured in America can call themselves a certain name but if a white calls them it , its akin to commitiing murder, thats kind of wierd to me.

[ledge]

Whilst not for one second condoning his actions I don't believe you could reasonably have your career terminated for that stupid action as an isolated incident. Once it goes to mediation and you apologise and show remorse then you can't be terminated.
A suspension is the correct start with this.

I agree, I am finding that being hard to follow a club because that happened from one player who the club quickly agreed it was wrong a bit harsh.

[Greystache]

Is there any chance we can merge this thread with the one on the unleashed board?

[w3design]

Yes its race where did i mention fat freckle etc no matter what race if it is, insulting a race it is racist,
Apart from that do you know what was said? none of us do. Was it to do with what your pointing out ?
Yes your right i am proud of my heritage personally but others see it different. I suppose you could say I hardened up, take it and give it back.


In fact I think these people you talk about should be more prouder than all of us from what they have been through and how they were strong enough to break through.
Dont take it as an insult take it as a compliment.
Interesting debate.
I heard a story on the coloured in America can call themselves a certain name but if a white calls them it , its akin to commitiing murder, thats kind of wierd to me.
Ledge, I realize you didn't mention fat, freckles, I'm trying to say that racial abuse is different from just abuse. It's rude to call someone fat, it's rude to call them a Pommy B. However fat people, freckled people, pommy people haven't suffered systematic discrimination..built into laws of society like the examples I mentioned. I don't know if I can express myself any better than that so maybe we will just have to accept our differing points of view on this.

[Remi Moses]

And here's my mum telling me all those years ' sticks and stones ...'

The world's gone mad.

Yeah those were the days! :rolleyes:

[Remi Moses]

I can't accept that calling someone names is worse than elbowing someone in the head

You just don't get it do you?

[AndrewP6]

Whilst I certainly don't condone what Justin has said and done, I certainly HOPE we don't fully hang him out to dry in this board. Suerly we have ALL said or done things that we aren't proud of & regret.

This. The guy made a mistake, but no one died. Give him his whack and move on.

[LostDoggy]

Good response from the club. Stupid action on Sherman's part and he will pay the price long after the suspension has ended. I'm glad that all the stupid things I did as a 24 year old never found their way into the papers - as bulldog supporters we should get behind the kid when he is back in bulldog colors.

[AndrewP6]

Off field he has been a disaster. Classic example of a footballer that should keep his mouth shut apart from saying the cliches.

Now that's an over-reaction. Isn't the first footballer to say something silly, won't go close to being the last.

[Remi Moses]

This. The guy made a mistake, but no one died. Give him his whack and move on.

Agreed the guy F***Ed up. Big lesson in life for a young man.

[LostDoggy]

Agreed the guy F***Ed up. Big lesson in life for a young man.

Massive lesson. Anyone see the press conference? he looks absolutely shattered.
Garlick was quite impressive in that he didn't shy away from what had happened.

[AndrewP6]

Agreed the guy F***Ed up. Big lesson in life for a young man.

Yep, and that's something often forgotten - even though he's been 'in the system', he's still only a young man. And young men make mistakes - fortunately, most aren't put under a microscope at their place of work.

[chef]

So only non ethnic Minority people are racists?

Do you really not get it?

[LostDoggy]

Yep, and that's something often forgotten - even though he's been 'in the system', he's still only a young man. And young men make mistakes - fortunately, most aren't put under a microscope at their place of work.

You're going to open a massive can of worms here. I agree it's not a 'normal' working environment and emotions obviously run to extremes out on the ground.
But you can't defend that kind of behavior because of age, or any other reason such as place
of work.

Sherman will be ok and can turn things around through his actions in the future if
he's a good person which i think he probably is.

[chef]

Yep, and that's something often forgotten - even though he's been 'in the system', he's still only a young man. And young men make mistakes - fortunately, most aren't put under a microscope at their place of work.

Still no excuse.

[AndrewP6]

You're going to open a massive can of worms here. I agree it's not a 'normal' working environment and emotions obviously run to extremes out on the ground.
But you can't defend that kind of behavior because of age, or any other reason such as place
of work.

Sherman will be ok and can turn things around through his actions in the future if
he's a good person which i think he probably is.

Not trying to defend it, just calling for a little understanding. Surely we've all made mistakes in our youth?

[AndrewP6]

I think the calls for a season ban or sacking are far too heavy-handed. Sure, Sherm knew the rules, and contravened. But unlike some others before him, he has put his hand up and taken the hit. He messed up, copped his whack - don't shoot the guy because of one moment of stupidity.

[SonofScray]

Shit form Sherman, take your medicine and come back better for it. Racism is not good enough, regardless of how shitty and uneven the AFL's penalties and processes for discipline are.

Kid seems like a bit of a goose, but thats OK - we can't have a team full of do gooders. Not everyone has to be squeaky clean. He has a mouth, seems a shifty sort of character and this time he went too far and will get his right whack. No need to hang him though, Sherman deserves a chance to take it all in, grow up and go about his business.

[angelopetraglia]

Anyone watch Damien Barrett on Footy Classifieds? Now sounds even worse.

He is saying it was repeated abuse. Definitely more than once. It wasn't just a one off sledge.

Very sad day for our club. Very harsh, maybe too harsh, but the season for me. Disgrace.

[LostDoggy]

Can't wait to see what Aker has to say..... :rolleyes:

I probably would have given Sherman a couple of extra weeks, but a season long ban is overboard. What makes it all worse is the fact that it happened basically all day long & the young GC player was obviously very upset about it, considering the GC players approached the umpires during the match.

Also good to see Gia actually walk over after the game to talk to the young lad, great leadership.

If you are Jones, Hill or DJ, how do you front up & play with the guy again?

[Dry Rot]

What makes it all worse is the fact that it happened basically all day long & the young GC player was obviously very upset about it

If so, other Dogs players must have been aware of it, and possibly the coaching staff.

Why didn't the onfield leadership group (and coaching staff if they were aware of it) stop it?

Not the best day for our club, nor the best day for Hill, DJ, Stack or Jones.

[Sedat]

If so, other Dogs players must have been aware of it, and possibly the coaching staff.

Why didn't the onfield leadership group (and coaching staff if they were aware of it) stop it?

Not the best day for our club, nor the best day for Hill, DJ, Stack or Jones.
More than once might be twice, it might be 100 times. Damian Barrett has given no more information than it happened more than once, and he is doing what any journo would and is allowing ill-informed viewers/readers draw their own conclusions and make their own assumptions about what happened (which you have been too happy to make ill-informed assumptions in your above post), which of course is intended to keep the story bubbling along.

What is certain is that one of our on-field leaders offered support to young Joel as soon as the siren sounded - that is about as swift a response to the issue as is humanly possible. Did you want our leaders to renounce Sherman and stage a sit down protest while the game was still on? How you can possibly draw conclusions that our club was slow to move and lacked leadership in relation to this issue defies logic. It has already been resolved to the satisfaction of the aggrieved party less than 2 days after the match, with our club having been in constant contact with GC, the player and the AFL in the interim to ensure that the player and his club were given a satisfactory resolution to the issue. Sometimes no matter what our club's actions, some people will find fault.

It is a shocking situation handled as sympathetically and as quickly as could possibly be handled by our on-field and off-field leaders.

[Dry Rot]

If it was all day and if they were aware (and it seems some knew by full-time) then they could have stopped it earlier, couldn't they?

[Ghost Dog]

Sherman...trade bait anyone? It's that serious for mine. The West is all about cultural inclusivity.
Still, if he can take his medicine and learn from it, all fine and good. Maybe Jones, DJ and some of the others should sit down and talk to him, so he can walk in their shoes.
At least he put his hand up and took it like a man.

Andrew, the worst thing is it doesn't really sound like one moment does it.
I knew from the moment I saw his Chippendale style photos all over the net he was going to be a handful.
he better work damn hard and keep his nose clean.

[AndrewP6]

Sherman...trade bait anyone? It's that serious for mine. The West is all about cultural inclusivity.

No way.


Andrew, the worst thing is it doesn't really sound like one moment does it.
I knew from the moment I saw his Chippendale style photos all over the net he was going to be a handful.
he better work damn hard and keep his nose clean.

According to who, Damo Barrett? The beacon of journalistic integrity that he is. Still the point remains - he made a mistake, and as you said, put his hand up and copped the penalty. If we wiped our slate of all our players involved in regrettable incidents, how many would be left?

[Topdog]

Ledge, I realize you didn't mention fat, freckles, I'm trying to say that racial abuse is different from just abuse. It's rude to call someone fat, it's rude to call them a Pommy B. However fat people, freckled people, pommy people haven't suffered systematic discrimination..built into laws of society like the examples I mentioned. I don't know if I can express myself any better than that so maybe we will just have to accept our differing points of view on this.

Does that mean we can racially vilify 10 year "black" people as they would not have seen any systematic discrimination?

[Topdog]

Still, if he can take his medicine and learn from it, all fine and good. Maybe Jones, DJ and some of the others should sit down and talk to him, so he can walk in their shoes.
At least he put his hand up and took it like a man.

The press conference and him and the club offering the suspension would seem to indicate that he has acknowledged it was wrong. The "volunteer" work that he will do will allow him to walk in their shoes.

[LostDoggy]

The four weeks will pass quickly, the $5000 will be forgotten, but Sherman will be boooed and taunted for the rest of his career by the crowd. He has really screwed himself over.

On another note:
Do I think the four weeks are harsh? No! Look don't get me wrong, anything verbal bounces off me, I honestly couldn't give a toss about teases and people trying to get under my skin. But as I'm trying to teach my son at the minute: If you are wearing a uniform then you have lost certain rights as a individual and are representing something else. In this case Sherm was representing the Western Bulldogs Footbal Club. Somethings are bigger than the individual. Bad PR is bad business in any field.

Sorry to get off topic, but where the hell is all this pace that everyone is saying Sherman has????? Nearly every kick I see him have on the run is a last minute rush to get off as not to get tackled by someone who has just ran him down.

[GVGjr]

Sherman...trade bait anyone? It's that serious for mine. The West is all about cultural inclusivity.
.

It's been dealt with to the satisfaction of the AFL, the Dogs and the Suns so there is no grounds for this action.

[LostDoggy]

How do you know it was made toward and indigenous player?

I'm sure you know now that it was reported in the press, and Sherman himself said that 3 of his best mates at the club at DJ, Josh Hill and Liam Jones (I think!).

[BulldogBelle]

The four weeks will pass quickly, the $5000 will be forgotten, but Sherman will be boooed and taunted for the rest of his career by the crowd. He has really screwed himself over.

On another note:
Do I think the four weeks are harsh? No! Look don't get me wrong, anything verbal bounces off me, I honestly couldn't give a toss about teases and people trying to get under my skin. But as I'm trying to teach my son at the minute: If you are wearing a uniform then you have lost certain rights as a individual and are representing something else. In this case Sherm was representing the Western Bulldogs Footbal Club. Somethings are bigger than the individual. Bad PR is bad business in any field.

Sorry to get off topic, but where the hell is all this pace that everyone is saying Sherman has????? Nearly every kick I see him have on the run is a last minute rush to get off as not to get tackled by someone who has just ran him down.


Was Monkhurt booed for the rest of his career for a one-off incident? Spider Everitt?

For the next 4 weeks he will be able to hear the abuse and boos from spectators at the VFL

[BulldogBelle]

Sherman...trade bait anyone? It's that serious for mine. The West is all about cultural inclusivity.
Still, if he can take his medicine and learn from it, all fine and good. Maybe Jones, DJ and some of the others should sit down and talk to him, so he can walk in their shoes.
At least he put his hand up and took it like a man.

Andrew, the worst thing is it doesn't really sound like one moment does it.
I knew from the moment I saw his Chippendale style photos all over the net he was going to be a handful.
he better work damn hard and keep his nose clean.



No way. For one incident and his first offence?

The Western Bulldogs should be advocates for cultural inclusion, as we represent one of the the most diverse geographic areas in the country.

If we want to attract supporters from different backgrounds away from the round ball game, we needed to be very clear with our messaging surrounding Justin - and we have.

[Sedat]

If it was all day and if they were aware (and it seems some knew by full-time) then they could have stopped it earlier, couldn't they?
You wanted our players to 'do something about it' while the match was still in progress? Are you serious?

[Dry Rot]

You wanted our players to 'do something about it' while the match was still in progress? Are you serious?

If it was "going on all day" a quiet word at the end of a quarter isn't that hard, is it?

[Sedat]

If it was "going on all day" a quiet word at the end of a quarter isn't that hard, is it?
Who's to say that didn't happen? And you are assuming that the vilification was going on all day when it might have only happened twice.

[LostDoggy]

I think it's dangerous to listen to one journalist & ASSUME it was happening all day. We all know how journalists speculate and sometimes just outright make stuff up. They are not held accountable for what they say or print, even when it's rubbish.

Re. Sherman. I'm disappointed in what he did and for tarnishing our club. I think it has been dealt with and now we need to focus on beating Melbourne on Friday night.

[Mofra]

I've listened to Les Twentyman talk about this a couple of times and he provides some compelling examples.
Workplace laws have changed recently in Victoria because of workplace harrassment.

Sherman did the wrong thing and is being punished for it in a manner all parties have agreed to. I don't get the call for his sacking/trading - hopefully he learns and moves on from the incident.

[Curly5]

I think it's dangerous to listen to one journalist & ASSUME it was happening all day. We all know how journalists speculate and sometimes just outright make stuff up. They are not held accountable for what they say or print, even when it's rubbish.

Re. Sherman. I'm disappointed in what he did and for tarnishing our club. I think it has been dealt with and now we need to focus on beating Melbourne on Friday night.

I agree. How would Barrett know? Unless he's being fed information by a player (which would be forbidden), or a runner, or was on the ground himself, he's making assumptions.

I would like to know if the leaders did say anything to Justin during the game, or if the age-old male reticence to criticise a mate, eg driving too fast or while drunk, occurred.

The photo of Gia speaking with Wilkinson at the end of the game indicates to me that he was trying to soothe him, and Sherman was apologising then as well. But of course it was too late then.

[G-Mo77]

Wow the evidence Barrett and the Footy Classified show is damming isn't it. 2 shots of Sherman and Wilkinson in a contest and Gia walking to them after the siren. This is the evidence they have found to say that it happened continuously through out the entire game. :rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

Wow the evidence Barrett and the Footy Classified show is damming isn't it. 2 shots of Sherman and Wilkinson in a contest and Gia walking to them after the siren. This is the evidence they have found to say that it happened continuously through out the entire game. :rolleyes:

Has the club or Sherman denied it?

It is damaging against our brand, if false information has been reported i think the club would jump on it.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

You think so? He is a show pony on the field. Apart from the Freo game many of his goals are soft/goal square type. Not sure he works hard enough either. He provides us with run we've needed but we gave up a bit for him.

Off field he has been a disaster. Classic example of a footballer that should keep his mouth shut apart from saying the cliches.

I agree. Sherman is an ordinary Footballer and it provides the perfect opportunity for Grant's return. To think we opted for Sherman when Andrew Walker was a possibility beggars belief.

[GVGjr]

To think we opted for Sherman when Andrew Walker was a possibility beggars belief.

Not quite as easy as it sounds NBP. I think Carlton wanted more for Walker than what we gave for Sherman

[LostDoggy]

Personally I just like watching footy and all this extra stuff really does annoy at times. The media will crap on about this until the next incident. Can't wait until the Melbourne game is over so we can move on.

[LostDoggy]

Personally I just like watching footy and all this extra stuff really does annoy at times. The media will crap on about this until the next incident. Can't wait until the Melbourne game is over so we can move on.

It will be interesting to see what happens AW.

After the Aker fiasco last year we came out firing and smacked Freo. The club was under siege after that ridiculous Sam Newman / Akermanis setup on the footy show.. Aker is a narcissistic ballbag and i can see how his rantings and ravings totally galvanized the group.

This week seems different . From what i've read the playing group feel deeply ashamed by what has happened. Will they go into their shells? Will they come out firing? Again the club
is being heavily criticised but this time the criticism is warranted.

..an interesting study in player psychology this week .

Also, I wonder if Bob will dare tackle the issue in the Age this week? It will be a tough article
for him to write, a lot of conflicting loyalties / emotions.

[Dry Rot]

If so, other Dogs players must have been aware of it, and possibly the coaching staff.

Why didn't the onfield leadership group (and coaching staff If they were aware of it) stop it?

Not the best day for our club, nor the best day for Hill, DJ, Stack or Jones.


If it was all day and If they were aware (and it seems some knew by full-time) then they could have stopped it earlier, couldn't they?


If it was "going on all day" a quiet word at the end of a quarter isn't that hard, is it?


Who's to say that didn't happen? And you are assuming that the vilification was going on all day when it might have only happened twice.

Hm, a few comprehension problems here and in some other people's posts about my "assuming" that the racial sledging occurred all match.

If clearly signifies that it might have happened or might not, and of speculation and doubt not certainty.

I don't know what actually happened on Saturday nor does anyone else here. It might have been a one-off, happened a few times or happened all game.

There was an allegation it happened all game, and so I commented IF this was true. I didn't assume it was true.

[Topdog]

Who knows how often it happened but players certainly knew it happened.

Certain players would tell someone to stop being an asshole but others probably most would just sit back and not say anything.

Our club seems to have a lot of the sit back type.

[Dry Rot]

Who knows how often it happened but players certainly knew it happened.

Certain players would tell someone to stop being an asshole but others probably most would just sit back and not say anything.

Our club seems to have a lot of the sit back type.

If so, then in a sense Sherman isn't the only guilty one.

If the bolded bit in your post is true, what the hell was our so-called Leadership Group doing?

On a positive note, I watched the press conference. Sherman looked terrible but gee Garlick was terrific.

Haven't heard speak before - very impressive.

[Topdog]

Well Gia apparently went up to the player as soon as the siren sounded so they knew something happened. If it happened once than the Leadership Group doesn't need to do anything.

If more than once yes they should do something.

[bornadog]

Who knows how often it happened but players certainly knew it happened.

Certain players would tell someone to stop being an asshole but others probably most would just sit back and not say anything.

Our club seems to have a lot of the sit back type.

I don't believe this is true. With the leadership programme in place, issues are dealt with more promptly than they would have in the past.

[Curly5]

Has the club or Sherman denied it?

It is damaging against our brand, if false information has been reported i think the club would jump on it.


The media would love the club to be embroiled in a "he said it twice", "no he didn't, it was 6 times" argument, which would inevitably draw in the Suns. The clubs have wisely said that no more will be said about it. Sherman will be forbidden to ever discuss the matter, while he's at the club anyway. People can waste their time speculating or just accept and move on.

[Scraggers]

If so, then in a sense Sherman isn't the only guilty one.

If the bolded bit in your post is true, what the hell was our so-called Leadership Group doing?

On a positive note, I watched the press conference. Sherman looked terrible but gee Garlick was terrific.

Haven't heard speak before - very impressive.

Agreed ... It's my first interaction with him as CEO ... I too was impressed.

[LostDoggy]

Shit, too many posts to "Multi-Quote" so I'm just gonna stop right here…


How do you know it was the first gamer?

RE the donation can he claim it at tax time?

Reported by many in the media.


In my day it was just trying to put a player off his game, he would do the same back and you just got on with it, and you both knew it was just trying to psyche each other out and meant nothing.
Afterwards you all had a beer and didnt even remember what was said or you both laughed about it.

Okay things have changed and you can all have a go at me but whatever happened to a bit of gobbing off, I copped it and mainly looked forward to it, whether my race, parents etc.
I heard some real funny ones and you knew they werent personal.
I do have one question if its racially driven why arent the people feeling villified proud of their heritage?
As Nicky Winmar did by lifting his top, yes im black or aboriginal and i am proud of it.
We should all be proud of our race, I was born in the UK and growing up here, still cop the pommy "B" 40 years later, I take it as a plus not a minus.
I think the unwritten rule was dont get personal, eg if you knew something had happened to the family and focussed on that it was a no no, if he did that yep give him a good going over.

The world has changed since my day and I suppose rules are rules and all players are schooled on not doing it, Sherman did it so he is guilty but I think a few of us are going over the top with being remembered for it and its a blight on the club, i am backing its gone and forgotten in 4 weeks.
I certainly have nothing against Sherman just dissappointed its one of our players and he should have known better.

This is the wrong attitude. I'm not a PC type of person, in fact in many cases I'm anything but, but I've seen enough hurt caused by people who “didn't really mean anything by it” to believe that for a minute.

I've been the subject of racism myself, whilst overseas. I once had fruit pelted at me for being American (I'm not, but they thought I was). It's not a nice feeling. It's worse than “sticks and stones”, racism slowly but surely cements a person's status in society as a second-class citizen based solely on the colour of their skin, this leads to viewing these people as less human than ourselves, and this has helped cause more wars than I care to list exhaustively, but for a start: World War 1, World War 2, the first Gulf War…

Ask a Jew if he thinks racism is simply calling somebody names.


Not sure about this. A program of mediation and education would be followed - but termination for a first offence is pretty unlikely...

In my company, you'd be watched whilst you pack up your desk. We don't tolerate it. Nobody should.


I can't accept that calling someone names is worse than elbowing someone in the head

It's far worse. You're attacking an entire race of people.


Sockeye. I completely and utterly disagree with you.
That old chestnut, (and I'll quote it in full in case anyone doesn't know it)

"sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"

Is a colossal load of bull$@#t.

Names hurt, they hurt alot, workplace bullying and cyber bullying has caused suicides. Fact.

Racism is about the vilest face of human behaviour and needs to be stamped out completely.

I hope justin Sherman is ashamed and sorry and 4 weeks is OK with me.

Complete agree. Also think 4 weeks is fine.

[Maddog37]

Not to derail a very serious thread but what do I tell my kids if sticks and stones etc is bullshit?

Should they run and cry to teacher or me every time someone teases them?

Also at my work if you racially abused someone you would be given the chance to discuss and atone for your actions not frog marched out the door.

Which approach is more enlightened I will leave up to the individual to decide.

[LostDoggy]

Not to derail a very serious thread but what do I tell my kids if sticks and stones etc is bullshit?

Should they run and cry to teacher or me every time someone teases them?

Also at my work if you racially abused someone you would be given the chance to discuss and atone for your actions not frog marched out the door.

Which approach is more enlightened I will leave up to the individual to decide.

Have the chance to discuss and atone, sure, but if they don't really get it, then march them out the door. Why? Because many people don't want to work with racists. That's how serious I see it.

Just because he came out in the media and read an apology scripted by the PR team doesn't mean he's changed his views. Hopefully he has.

It's a massive issue in our country as a whole at the moment, and this incident, and this subsequent discussion here on WOOF, only highlights the general problem across the nation: We don't all understand how serious an issue it is. Many people feel as if it's the “politically correct, leftie, latté-drinking elite” ramming something down our throats, rather than looking at it as common-sense, decent people and realise we're hurting other people, just like us.

[LostDoggy]

I can't accept that calling someone names is worse than elbowing someone in the head


It's far worse. You're attacking an entire race of people.

Multi offenders or on going torment would surely have psychological effects. But a one off racial sledge Vs a Concussion? Dunno about that one. If what you guys are reffering to is the Campbell Brown hit on Ward, put it in perspective. What sherman did was worse than say Browns elbow on Ward and the sentance shows. But as a one off racial sledge how would it compare to say Tony Locketts elbow all those years ago that earnt him 12wks (I think?). One could argue that facial reconstruction and a year out of the game is less desirable than what happened to the GC first gamer. However I don't believe I have any right to say how it feels for someone to be racialy taunted.


In my company, you'd be watched whilst you pack up your desk. We don't tolerate it. Nobody should.



Also at my work if you racially abused someone you would be given the chance to discuss and atone for your actions not frog marched out the door.

Which approach is more enlightened I will leave up to the individual to decide.

Same at my work. obviously severity come into the equasion but a lot of big companies have rehab type programs and counselling in place, inc formal warnings and such.

I still think Sherman got off light though.

[DragzLS1]

Think it's a bit over the top if you ask me. I mean you could turn most things into racial depending how you take it and considering nobody knows exactly what was said we shouldn't judge straight away. I have gone through alot of racist comments and what have you in my years be it on the soccer pitch or school but I know it makes me stronger and I never looked at it as a bad thing. Maybe because I have a different view on racism seeing I've been on the back end before and I didn't let it effect me so others will have a different view. Just think some people need to relax about this And some players need to harden up. In saying that I don't appreciate sherman representing our club in that way and he cops 4 weeks bad luck I Spose I'm sure he will learn.

[ledge]

Think it's a bit over the top if you ask me. I mean you could turn most things into racial depending how you take it and considering nobody knows exactly what was said we shouldn't judge straight away. I have gone through alot of racist comments and what have you in my years be it on the soccer pitch or school but I know it makes me stronger and I never looked at it as a bad thing. Maybe because I have a different view on racism seeing I've been on the back end before and I didn't let it effect me so others will have a different view. Just think some people need to relax about this And some players need to harden up. In saying that I don't appreciate sherman representing our club in that way and he cops 4 weeks bad luck I Spose I'm sure he will learn.

^^^^^ My thoughts too.

[LostDoggy]

I agree 100% that there is no place for it, but I also believe society has gone over the top with the issue.
It worries me if something derogatory is said like you white so and so, it doesn't appear to be as big an issue as if the same expression is used with regard to a different colour. I have to beat around the bush instead of using pain English, which would be politicly incorrect.

[w3design]

For those saying we don't know what was said..Sherman himself said in his statement it was 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful. '

I'm not sure what people might think the different 'grades' of racial abuse might be, but quite evidently Sherman acknowledges it was not of some 'trivial', 'minor' nature, whatever that might look like I have no idea.

[Greystache]

For those saying we don't know what was said..Sherman himself said in his statement it was 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful. '

I'm not sure what people might think the different 'grades' of racial abuse might be, but quite evidently Sherman acknowledges it was not of some 'trivial', 'minor' nature, whatever that might look like I have no idea.

Do you really think Sherman had any input into that speech? He has shown several times he's not the brightest, and leaving him to his own words is a recipe for disaster.

[SonofScray]

Do you really think Sherman had any input into that speech? He has shown several times he's not the brightest, and leaving him to his own words is a recipe for disaster.

Agree. There is no chance he had anything to do with writing that up, in fact it has probably been saved on the shared drive at HQ as "racial slur apology template updated 26.06.2011.doc"

All you can hope is that Sherman has taken the wake up call this incident has dished out well and will develop into a better sportsman, turning out some solid performances for the Club. He certainly will need to become a very good player if his goal celebrations remain so over the top while the majority of the crowd will be booing him and throwing all sorts of barbs his way.

[Bulldog4life]

For those saying we don't know what was said..Sherman himself said in his statement it was 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful. '
I'm not sure what people might think the different 'grades' of racial abuse might be, but quite evidently Sherman acknowledges it was not of some 'trivial', 'minor' nature, whatever that might look like I have no idea.

In my opinion 4 weeks is an adequate penalty. It was a weak act by Sherman. I also think Malthouse should have been suspended for calling a player a rapist...whether you like that player or not... it smacks of double standards by the AFL.. That comment is also 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful'.

[LostDoggy]

I am saddened by what has happened.....chiefly because I like to think that we are a club of Chris Grant types. I know that's not possible, but I just like to think we are all responsible for how others might feel before we open our mouths.

What should have been a glorious day of celebration for a young man and his family and friends has turned into a nightmare. What right does Sherman have for so trashing a young man's day of hopes and dreams? His mother's hopes and dreams? His father's? Forever now, his first game of AFL football will be tainted by what was said to him.

It's rubbish and it's truly disappointing.

[w3design]

I quoted him because some have questioned whether it may have been an offense at the lower end of the spectrum (if there is such a thing). I don't think he wrote them himself but he would have had to agree to the wording and the penalty..if he strongly felt he had somehow been misquoted or just said something 'in jest' I doubt he'd have agreed to such strong wording and could have gone to the tribunal. That, and his stricken demeanor, suggest to me this was a very serious breach.

[jeemak]

In my opinion 4 weeks is an adequate penalty. It was a weak act by Sherman. I also think Malthouse should have been suspended for calling a player a rapist...whether you like that player or not... it smacks of double standards by the AFL.. That comment is also 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful'.

It annoys me that certain sledges are seen as distasteful but seemingly acceptable, while others are seen to carry more of a stigma. The comparison you highlight, often directed at a person who I don't regard very highly (from a club that I despise for many reasons) is a case in point. I can't think of many things more offensive to be called than rapist. Rape is disgusting, abhorrent and one of the worst things a person can inflict upon another but this person cops it on a weekly basis based on rumour. Nobody really bats an eyelid at it.

It also concerns me that caving or attempting to cave a persons face in on the football field is not derided by some sections of the public as strongly as saying racist comments is. For me, that's just silly. If I was to use Campbell Brown's hit on Ward this year as an example I think I can demonstrate the point fairly well. Brown made intentional head high contact to a player that wasn't ready for it well off the ball, with the intention to cause him physical harm. The next day there were plenty of people lining up to defend his actions. Even the AFL and MRP made excuses for him.

I'm not saying we need to loosen up on how we handle racism, more to the point, I think society needs to raise its standards in other areas.

[LostDoggy]

In my opinion 4 weeks is an adequate penalty. It was a weak act by Sherman. I also think Malthouse should have been suspended for calling a player a rapist...whether you like that player or not... it smacks of double standards by the AFL.. That comment is also 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful'.

Well said.

I still want to clean my toilet with Milnes head which would be 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful'.

[Topdog]

In my opinion 4 weeks is an adequate penalty. It was a weak act by Sherman. I also think Malthouse should have been suspended for calling a player a rapist...whether you like that player or not... it smacks of double standards by the AFL.. That comment is also 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful'.

EXACTLY!! (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=9372#post219764)

[LostDoggy]

In my opinion 4 weeks is an adequate penalty. It was a weak act by Sherman. I also think Malthouse should have been suspended for calling a player a rapist...whether you like that player or not... it smacks of double standards by the AFL.. That comment is also 'offensive, degrading and extremely hurtful'.
What a great point, to a non rapist that would be very upsetting and hurtful.

[bornadog]

http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/justin%20sherman_246s.jpg

WESTERN Bulldogs forward Justin Sherman will spend four weeks in the VFL after he admitted he had racially vilified an unnamed opposition player during Saturday's clash with Gold Coast.

AFL football operations manager Adrian Anderson said the two parties had been part of a conciliation meeting and it was determined that:

A matter between Western Bulldogs player Justin Sherman and a Gold Coast Suns player was conciliated and settled. Player Sherman admitted he had racially vilified an opposition player and he apologised to the Suns' player;

Justin Sherman will attend an education program under the guidelines of the player rules under rule 30 covering racial and religious vilification;

Justin Sherman has agreed that he will serve a four-match suspension to cover rounds 15-18 of the 2011 Toyota AFL Premiership Season. He may play at VFL level during that period;

Justin Sherman will make a donation of $5000 to the charity nominated by the Gold Coast Suns:

The Gold Coast Suns player accepted Sherman’s apology and said the other outcomes of the conciliation, as outlined above, were acceptable to him to conclude this matter;

No person involved in the conciliation agreement, the AFL, the Western Bulldogs FC or the Gold Coast Suns FC may publicly identify the Gold Coast player involved

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/117220/default.aspx

This has reared its ugly head:


The former AFL Gold Coast Suns player Joel Wilkinson is suing the AFL alleging racial abuse and sexual harassment. He claims the AFL allowed racial abuse, sexual taunting in the locker room, bullying and mistreatment, despite repeated requests for help and support

Sherman what a dickhead he was.

[bulldogtragic]

This has reared its ugly head:



Sherman what a dickhead he was.

And us for giving a prized picked for him. Hopefully our club isn't a co-defendant.

[westdog54]

And us for giving a prized picked for him. Hopefully our club isn't a co-defendant.

The wording suggests that this conduct occurred at the Gold Coast.

[bulldogtragic]

The wording suggests that this conduct occurred at the Gold Coast.

I think I merged the two posts together. I guess Bluey McKenna & their foolish CEO aren't going to feel comfortable for a while. Perhaps they should just dissolve GCS and give every club 3 players each. Us getting first pick of course.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

I couldn’t remember his name. A dickhead indeed

[Twodogs]

And us for giving a prized picked for him. Hopefully our club isn't a co-defendant.


I can't see how unless Sherman claims he was specifically instructed to go out on the ground and racially abuse opposition players.

[AndrewP6]

The wording suggests that this conduct occurred at the Gold Coast.

Yep, it refers to locker room stuff, not just that incident with Shermo.

[divvydan]

Also seems to refer to the AFL effectively blacklisting him afterwards.

From the ABC News article


His case alleges he was not offered future employment with the AFL, the Gold Coast Suns and other clubs because he spoke up about racism against him and due to his association with other players who were also subjected to racial discrimination.

[Topdog]

This can't be about Sherman because he went through conciliation and agreed to it.

[bornadog]

This can't be about Sherman because he went through conciliation and agreed to it.

It is apart of the argument. I am sure there are many other incidences that were kept quiet.

[westdog54]

Also seems to refer to the AFL effectively blacklisting him afterwards.

From the ABC News article

That's a very damning allegation. No doubt the AFL will defend this vigorously.

[Twodogs]

That's a very damning allegation. No doubt the AFL will defend this vigorously.


The excluding him after his delisting do you mean? They are more likely to start out by throwing someone under the bus. That's their usual MO under Gil, Gil likes to sack people because that always solves the problem. Gil has sacked someone and now he doesn't have to worry about it anymore. Whatever it was.


The social secretary may as well srtart up the farewell collection at AFL house now. Book the multifunction room for next Friday afternoon (tomorrow is a bit to soon) and tell them you'll give them a name when you know it.

[GVGjr]

Am I right in saying in Sherman first game with us he was our first ever sub?

[Twodogs]

Sherman was the personification of the dickhead Tasmanian in Rocket's "no dickhead Tasmanians" policy.

[Greystache]

Gerard Whately said something very interesting about this case last night. He couldn't go into too much detail given the complaint has yet to be lodged formally, but he said the complaint isn't a standard racial discrimination complaint, it's an American interpretation of racism that Australia might not be familiar with. The complaint of sexual harassment and religious persecution is apparently tied to this interpretation

That doesn't sound like the incident involving Sherman.

[bornadog]

Gordon Legal will be representing the AFL in this case

[Bulldog Revolution]

Whilst I accept that Joel may have legitimately suffered, I'd like to digress.

Sometimes I feel as members of WOOF we unnecessarily inflict suffering on each other. By way of example, this thread, does any self respecting bulldog want to be reminded that we squandered the Harbrow compensation pick (approx pick 25) on Justin Sherman?

I argue we need to be better to each other, and try not to remind each other of these atrocities

Don't start me on our lack of compensation for Tony McGuinness or Kym Koster etc - because I'm still not over it!! :mad:

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

I had forgotten all about him now I'm having flashbacks

[Twodogs]

I had forgotten all about him now I'm having flashbacks



Acid flashbacks? I get them too.

[westdog54]

The reaction on Social Media to Wilkinson's case has been predictably pitiful.

Apparently he's "The new Harry O'Brien".

Which, given what Heretier went through, I would be wearing as a badge of honour if I was Wilkinson.

[Sedat]

The reaction on Social Media to Wilkinson's case has been predictably pitiful.

Apparently he's "The new Harry O'Brien".

Which, given what Heretier went through, I would be wearing as a badge of honour if I was Wilkinson.
O'Brien could play and made it to 200 games, despite the 'problem child' persona often attributed to him. Everybody deserves their day in court but if Wilkinson was any good he'd still be playing now. To assert that his outspokenness curtailed his career fails the sniff test - clubs bend over backwards for seriously talented players who might be outspoken off the ground. O'Brien actually disproves the 'lost wages' element of his case.

[westdog54]

O'Brien could play and made it to 200 games, despite the 'problem child' persona often attributed to him. Everybody deserves their day in court but if Wilkinson was any good he'd still be playing now. To assert that his outspokenness curtailed his career fails the sniff test - clubs bend over backwards for seriously talented players who might be outspoken off the ground. O'Brien actually disproves the 'lost wages' element of his case.

I'm talking more in context of the abuse he copped from the general football public. Anyone who calls out racism becomes public enemy number 1.

[Twodogs]

I'm talking more in context of the abuse he copped from the general football public. Anyone who calls out racism becomes public enemy number 1.

We do ugly mobs particularly well. If ganging up on someone was an Olympic sport it would be another 1500 freestyle for us.

[Greystache]

I'm talking more in context of the abuse he copped from the general football public. Anyone who calls out racism becomes public enemy number 1.

Rubbish. There's just as much if not more vitriol directed at the AFL, particularly from SJW groups, because the complaint is against the AFL and the complaintant is a minority.

AFL= White blokes in suits= evil

Wilkinson= minority= pure and honest

Sorry I don't give either groups any credit. Both are as toxic as each other.

[westdog54]

Rubbish. There's just as much if not more vitriol directed at the AFL, particularly from SJW groups, because the complaint is against the AFL and the complaintant is a minority.

AFL= White blokes in suits= evil

Wilkinson= minority= pure and honest

Sorry I don't give either groups any credit. Both are as toxic as each other.

Sorry, but I've highlighted the part that actually is rubbish.

[soupman]

Rubbish. There's just as much if not more vitriol directed at the AFL, particularly from SJW groups, because the complaint is against the AFL and the complaintant is a minority.

AFL= White blokes in suits= evil

Wilkinson= minority= pure and honest

Sorry I don't give either groups any credit. Both are as toxic as each other.

I usually agree with your posts but this one not so much.

Social media can be great for getting an alternative view on stuff, Twitter especially. But criticism on social media is always much more frequently from abusive bogans than SJWs, just look at any Facebook thread, and can be incredibly harsh.

There are some calling out the AFL about this, but by and large they seem to be much more rational and measured than the stuff Wilkinson is copping. Almost every media tweet or story about this has an absolutely disgraceful comment/reply section, which is primarily abuse towards Wilkinson.

[Greystache]

Sorry, but I've highlighted the part that actually is rubbish.

I guess you've found only what you've looked for and made your case. Good job.

[westdog54]

I guess you've found only what you've looked for and made your case. Good job.

Or maybe you've just oversimplified a problem and moved on.

In either case its not worth having this discussion.

[Twodogs]

Interesting talk (and I'm not quite sure I understand it) that the definition of racism (or whatever the term used in the complaint is) used in the complaint is an American definition of racism or racial intolerance that doesn't actually need an act of racism toward an individual to be proven. I think I have that right but everyone is being a bit cagey and short on information. I think Wilkinson lives in the US and plays NFL (or played) now.

A couple if things I don't understand 1/ this isn't the United States. 2/ how can you be offended against if you haven't been offended against? I might be an idiot that's looking at a job half done but I'm confused.

[Happy Days]

Rubbish. There's just as much if not more vitriol directed at the AFL, particularly from SJW groups, because the complaint is against the AFL and the complaintant is a minority.

AFL= White blokes in suits= evil

Wilkinson= minority= pure and honest

Sorry I don't give either groups any credit. Both are as toxic as each other.

Points for getting through this post without using the word "cuck" I guess.

This is a ridiculous assertion and pays absolutely no regard to existing power dynamics that cause systemic harm to be perpetuated on minorities in the first place. There have been continual acts of racial and sexual-based discrimination performed by the AFL, its constituent clubs, or supporter groups even in the last 18 months that the organisation itself has claimed no responsibility or blame for, and creates for the insidious culture that continues to make the game so toxic.

There is an overwhelming tendency to undermine complaints from minority groups for many reasons, for a number of reasons, the most obvious of which is a lack of understanding with regard to what is racism. The suppression of POC voices in informing what racism is, in favour of a paternalistic approach whereby we determine only overt slurs and racially-motivated violence can be racist, has created this circular logic where a claim of racial taunting short of these prescribed behaviours is derided and put to the side, ever deepening the issue at hand. Look at the Government's rejection of the "Statement from the Heart" proposal if you don't believe me - it's an extremely deep-seated problem in Australian society that reaches far beyond the AFL, but is no doubt reflected by it.

Wilkinson's claim is being dismissed not on its merits - I actually believe he has a strong argument, as it cannot be wholly said what his career may have amounted to if he had've been free of racially motivated bullying - but because we do not believe the behaviour being bounded around either to be racist, or of such a profound affect that he should not be overcome by it. And it makes for yet another example of a person being discriminated against being ignored or attempting to have their voice silenced because it is more convenient to do so.

Btw, SJW is such a bullshit cop out term to preserve the status quo of comfortability for most and demonstrates such little nuance I'm actually disappointed to see it on here. Might as well have called the complaint fake news.

[Greystache]

Points for getting through this post without using the word "cuck" I guess.

This is a ridiculous assertion and pays absolutely no regard to existing power dynamics that cause systemic harm to be perpetuated on minorities in the first place. There have been continual acts of racial and sexual-based discrimination performed by the AFL, its constituent clubs, or supporter groups even in the last 18 months that the organisation itself has claimed no responsibility or blame for, and creates for the insidious culture that continues to make the game so toxic.

There is an overwhelming tendency to undermine complaints from minority groups for many reasons, for a number of reasons, the most obvious of which is a lack of understanding with regard to what is racism. The suppression of POC voices in informing what racism is, in favour of a paternalistic approach whereby we determine only overt slurs and racially-motivated violence can be racist, has created this circular logic where a claim of racial taunting short of these prescribed behaviours is derided and put to the side, ever deepening the issue at hand. Look at the Government's rejection of the "Statement from the Heart" proposal if you don't believe me - it's an extremely deep-seated problem in Australian society that reaches far beyond the AFL, but is no doubt reflected by it.

Wilkinson's claim is being dismissed not on its merits - I actually believe he has a strong argument, as it cannot be wholly said what his career may have amounted to if he had've been free of racially motivated bullying - but because we do not believe the behaviour being bounded around either to be racist, or of such a profound affect that he should not be overcome by it. And it makes for yet another example of a person being discriminated against being ignored or attempting to have their voice silenced because it is more convenient to do so.

Btw, SJW is such a bullshit cop out term to preserve the status quo of comfortability for most and demonstrates such little nuance I'm actually disappointed to see it on here. Might as well have called the complaint fake news.

LOL. You could post that on The Guardian it's that dripping in cliches!

[Happy Days]

LOL. You could post that on The Guardian it's that dripping in cliches!

Good talk.

You know what a cliche is? Snidely dismissing critique of a dominant culture of abuse because you're secure of your place in it.

[Greystache]

Good talk.

You know what a cliche is? Snidely dismissing critique of a dominant culture of abuse because you're secure of your place in it.

Cool story bro.

I'm truly in awe at the level of woke you've managed to attain.