Liam Jones's Improvement

[Cyberdoggie]

Thought i'd start a discussion on our kp forward and his improvement in recent weeks.

Jones is still pretty young and still quite raw as a player, his skills are sometimes average, especially his kicking ability and while he had shown glimpses of his potential and a willingness to work hard, he wasn't setting the world on fire.

The last few weeks we have had some wins but i think we've also seen a big step forward in Liam Jones's progress. Earlier in the year he still didn't have clue when it came to pack marking. He had the leap but he wasn't positioning himself correctly, extending the arms out and he was wasn't positioning himself in the air where he would be balanced correctly. By that i mean that he was leaping and his upper body was still going forward with his momentum and the body contact in the pack. Opposition players were spoiling him easily because he doesn't extend his arms to mark the ball or he would go for the chest mark as a safety due to his lack of confidence in his hands.

The last few weeks, and especially the game against Carlton we saw a very different Liam Jones. I don't think he dropped a single pack mark that he had a good go at.
What i noticed was that he wasn't charging at the contest at full speed and therefore losing his balance in the air. Liam also positioned his run often from the side in order to get the best position, something he hadn't really done before. As a result he was very upright in the air and he was very strong with his hands.

Perhaps Chris Grant's assistance is paying off with some of our key talls.

I think this is a huge step forward for Liam, and i hope continues to improve and hopefully learns how to kick next. :p

[1eyedog]

I think it's more a product of the team's efficiency going forward and the increase in opportunities for Jones with a greater number of inside 50s. We were deplorable going forward up until a month ago what could we expect from a young tall forward who had the opposition's best backman due to the absence of Barry Hall? So Barry back the last few weeks helps as well.

However, I did think he showed glimpses during the Collingwood game.

[westdog54]

He's left Jarrad Grant well and truly in his wake in terms of the tall forward pecking order. His work rate has improved exponentially and the confidence he has in his marking is fantastic to see. He's also taken the second ruck role in his stride and has played his role for the team. Aside from improving his kicking I don't think I could have asked much more of him this year.

[LongWait]

Kudos to the MC for continuing to play Liam in the seniors. His development would have been hindered had they listened to the call of some to send him back to Willi.

[always right]

He's left Jarrad Grant well and truly in his wake in terms of the tall forward pecking order. His work rate has improved exponentially and the confidence he has in his marking is fantastic to see. He's also taken the second ruck role in his stride and has played his role for the team. Aside from improving his kicking I don't think I could have asked much more of him this year.

He looks better and better as each week passes. As for the comment about Grant, has anyone seriously suggested he has the build to be our major tall forward? He's a third tall with an edge in pace and should be developed as such.

[Rocco Jones]

Jones is 9th overall in total contested marks this season. He has taken 22 contested marks and is 1 off 5th, 2 off 4th and 3 off 3rd.

I like the 2nd ruck duties for his confidence. He is still raw and can go missing for long periods of time as a KPF. His stints in the ruck are short enough for his forward role to be his main priority but also often enough to get him near the action.

[LostDoggy]

I'll admit that I misjudged Jones.
For a while I'd read people's posts on here praising Jones as the future, and I did not see it at all.
But after the last few rounds I'm starting to get it. Or atleast get what he could be. He's starting to look really really good over head which will be very handy in the coming years. He has a lot of potential and as soon as his strength and kicking comes online he'll be dangerous.
Who says someone can't be won over???

[Desipura]

The more games he plays in the seniors the better he will become. He will get better delivery playing in the seniors than he would at Williamstown.

[bornadog]

With Hall in, this has taken the pressure off him. He can only improve as he gets more and more experience. Playing in the ruck has also given him another string in his bow.

[Sockeye Salmon]

With Hall in, this has taken the pressure off him. He can only improve as he gets more and more experience. Playing in the ruck has also given him another string in his bow.

No. No. No.

Having Hall in the side means all our attacks are directed to Hall and Jones gets ignored.

[Pedro Sanchez]

I see Jones as a conventional key position player. Whereas Grant is more of a flukey, floating flanker that can do the unexpected. If they both continue to improve and Grant shakes his sluggish season to date, they could create a well balanced attack in future.

[Rocco Jones]

With Hall in, this has taken the pressure off him. He can only improve as he gets more and more experience. Playing in the ruck has also given him another string in his bow.


No. No. No.

Having Hall in the side means all our attacks are directed to Hall and Jones gets ignored.

I'm with bornadog.

I think you are underselling how we are using Hall at the moment SS. Sure we used to go to him time and time again but I really think that has changed recently. Against Melbourne Hall played as decoy for most of the game trying to get Frawley out of the action.

I really believe people go over the top with the senior guys holding younger guys back, Sockeye I am sure you agree with that! As long as we don't go back to being completely obsessed with Hall (which isn't good for our team anyway) then I really think he will be good for Jones.

[bornadog]

No. No. No.

Having Hall in the side means all our attacks are directed to Hall and Jones gets ignored.

Which is a good thing as Jones was getting killed in the number one KPF role.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm with bornadog.

I think you are underselling how we are using Hall at the moment SS. Sure we used to go to him time and time again but I really think that has changed recently. Against Melbourne Hall played as decoy for most of the game trying to get Frawley out of the action.

I really believe people go over the top with the senior guys holding younger guys back, Sockeye I am sure you agree with that! As long as we don't go back to being completely obsessed with Hall (which isn't good for our team anyway) then I really think he will be good for Jones.

Ha ha.

Sorry Jason, I was having a laugh at those who claimed earlier in the season that Jones wasn't getting a kick because Hall was in the team.

[Rocco Jones]

Ha ha.

Sorry Jason, I was having a laugh at those who claimed earlier in the season that Jones wasn't getting a kick because Hall was in the team.

Haha, sorry mate, I really found it odd coming from you now I get why.

[LostDoggy]

How much does Jones benefit from developing along side a Fwd of the calibre of Hall?
As opposed to if Hall was not there and his first few seasons was in a Fwd line with only Gia, Grant, Hill etc. along with Johnno and Hahn of last year?
He has to have learnt something???

[1eyedog]

No. No. No.

Having Hall in the side means all our attacks are directed to Hall and Jones gets ignored.

Ha ha just read back over your rhetorical post.

Just on that though Jones plays up the ground and Hall predominately out of the square, although hall definitely roams as well. They have been different targets the past few weeks. One is a pack mark/one on one get out clause and the other is a lead up target. A good combo IMO.

[Mantis]

It's nice having a forward in the side who can take a pack mark... it just gives you hope when you have to bail out that we have someone on the end of it who might take a big grab. In my time I can't remember a forward who could do it as consistently as Liam is starting to do... my old man reckons Templeton made a living out of it, but he was a bit before my time.

Liam still has a heap of work to do to on his defensive game, positioning and skills, but he is showing enough to suggest we could have a very good player in our grasp.

In the meantime we can cheer when he takes a hanger and cringe when he stuffs up knowing that we are witnessing a young colt just learning the game.

[DragzLS1]

Everytime I see liam going up for a grab I am full of confidence! I took notice of this around the game against the pies.. Only thing is his kicking which I am sure will get better..

[1eyedog]

It's nice having a forward in the side who can take a pack mark... it just gives you hope when you have to bail out that we have someone on the end of it who might take a big grab. In my time I can't remember a forward who could do it as consistently as Liam is starting to do... my old man reckons Templeton made a living out of it, but he was a bit before my time.

Liam still has a heap of work to do to on his defensive game, positioning and skills, but he is showing enough to suggest we could have a very good player in our grasp.

In the meantime we can cheer when he takes a hanger and cringe when he stuffs up knowing that we are witnessing a young colt just learning the game.

Templeton certainly did. Chris Grant wasn't too shabby at it either before he went back, was 3rd in the Brownlow in 96 as a forward and technically won a Brownlow Medal there in 97(?), only problem for Chris was that he was a shocking kick in his first 3 or 4 seasons.

[Sockeye Salmon]

my old man reckons Templeton made a living out of it, but he was a bit before my time.


Templeton was only really at his peak for about 3 years - 78-80.

For those 3 years he was at least the equal of Carey at his best.

[westdog54]

No. No. No.

Having Hall in the side means all our attacks are directed to Hall and Jones gets ignored.


I'm with bornadog.

I think you are underselling how we are using Hall at the moment SS. Sure we used to go to him time and time again but I really think that has changed recently. Against Melbourne Hall played as decoy for most of the game trying to get Frawley out of the action.

I really believe people go over the top with the senior guys holding younger guys back, Sockeye I am sure you agree with that! As long as we don't go back to being completely obsessed with Hall (which isn't good for our team anyway) then I really think he will be good for Jones.

I LOLed when I read Rocco's reply to this post.

As a general rule I've found that anytime Rocco, SS, MJP or Twodogs start a post with the words 'no, no, no' its probably going to be pure sarcasm from start to finish.

[Desipura]

Templeton certainly did. Chris Grant wasn't too shabby at it either before he went back, was 3rd in the Brownlow in 96 as a forward and technically won a Brownlow Medal there in 97(?), only problem for Chris was that he was a shocking kick in his first 3 or 4 seasons.

Chris was a good kick for goal in his first few seasons. Remember him playing at full forward as a 17yo and kicking the most goals as a 17yo?
Its when we started relying on him alone to kick the majority of the goals that his kicking became an issue. In 1991, we got Glenn Coleman which alleviated some of the pressure.

[1eyedog]

Templeton certainly did. Chris Grant wasn't too shabby at it either before he went back, was 3rd in the Brownlow in 96 as a forward and technically won a Brownlow Medal there in 97(?), only problem for Chris was that he was a shocking kick in his first 3 or 4 seasons.

Chris was a good kick for goal in his first few seasons. Remember him playing at full forward as a 17yo and kicking the most goals as a 17yo?
Its when we started relying on him alone to kick the majority of the goals that his kicking became an issue. In 1991, we got Glenn Coleman which alleviated some of the pressure.

Yes actually I do remember him being a pretty fluent kick as a real kid. I guess that horrible patch where he lacked confidence in his kicking over a season or two left an indelible mark on me. He was a bit of a Richo back then and I closed my eyes everytime he lined them up.

[Rocco Jones]

I LOLed when I read Rocco's reply to this post.

As a general rule I've found that anytime Rocco, SS, MJP or Twodogs start a post with the words 'no, no, no' its probably going to be pure sarcasm from start to finish.

Hahaha. Yep, I probably should have got that for a few reasons. 1/ I am very sarcastic myself 2/ Sockeye's stance on youth vs experience 3/ Sockeye's sarcasm 4/ Jones and Hall both actually playing well together atm! I could go on.

[Cyberdoggie]

No. No. No.

Having Hall in the side means all our attacks are directed to Hall and Jones gets ignored.

I find he is leading up further, taking more marks across the wing areas and providing that go to guy for when we don't have a run out option from defence.

Generally we don't have many strong contested marks in our squad, so for Jones to be doing well in this area helps us immensely. It also helps us set up for an attack directly to Barry instead of trying to force the ball over to touch somewhere to hopefully get a clearance.

[always right]

[QUOTE=Desipura;226676]

Yes actually I do remember him being a pretty fluent kick as a real kid. I guess that horrible patch where he lacked confidence in his kicking over a season or two left an indelible mark on me. He was a bit of a Richo back then and I closed my eyes everytime he lined them up.

Grant always had a fluent kicking action but in his early years he battled to kick 40m. Jones doesn't have the same natural action and you can tell he is getting a lot of coaching.

[Mantis]

Templeton certainly did. Chris Grant wasn't too shabby at it either before he went back, was 3rd in the Brownlow in 96 as a forward and technically won a Brownlow Medal there in 97(?), only problem for Chris was that he was a shocking kick in his first 3 or 4 seasons.

Grant was a very good 1 on 1 mark, but he didn't take a lot of pack marks... Well I don't remember him doing so.

[bornadog]

Templeton certainly did. Chris Grant wasn't too shabby at it either before he went back, was 3rd in the Brownlow in 96 as a forward and technically won a Brownlow Medal there in 97(?), only problem for Chris was that he was a shocking kick in his first 3 or 4 seasons.[/QUOTE]

Chris was a good kick for goal in his first few seasons. Remember him playing at full forward as a 17yo and kicking the most goals as a 17yo?
Its when we started relying on him alone to kick the majority of the goals that his kicking became an issue. In 1991, we got Glenn Coleman which alleviated some of the pressure.




Yes actually I do remember him being a pretty fluent kick as a real kid. I guess that horrible patch where he lacked confidence in his kicking over a season or two left an indelible mark on me. He was a bit of a Richo back then and I closed my eyes everytime he lined them up.

His biggest limitation was distance, couldn't kick beyond the 50m ark.

[1eyedog]

Indeed but gee he used to spray a few as well.

[ledge]

Grant was a great kick in the begining but if i remember rightly he went to the backline (because we needed him everywhere) and after he came back he was a shocking kick.

[w3design]

Back to Liam jones, watching the replay I was very impressed not just by his marking, which is a strength of his, but did anyone notice the quick hands. I think 3 times lovely handballs from him were part of a chain that led to goals, including the great passage which led to Cooney's gem.

I can't wait to see him next year, he is really blossoming.

[LostDoggy]

The biggest plus for Jones is his ability to read the ball in the air and time his jump so he can get both hands cleanly to the ball and still have good body positioning so he lands on two feet , and that once he has marked he still keeps his field vision to see if he can keep the momentum of the play with a quick handpass , and if thats not on he doesn,t take too long to pick a target to cleanly pass to , I,m not sure on the stats of how many times he has kicked or handpassed backwards but I,m sure it would be very low , against Carlton he didn,t make a tackle but his zone pressure and harassment was very good , he may have a few flaws ( goalkicking ) but there is a future for the lad , I do like the cut of his jib

.

[ledge]

I watched him at Willy the other week and he was giving instructions during the game, looks to have a good mature football brain as well as talent.

[westbulldog]

I think he is improving with every game. I don't underestimate his huge potential irrespective of who else plays in the forward line.

[1eyedog]

Grant was a very good 1 on 1 mark, but he didn't take a lot of pack marks... Well I don't remember him doing so.

Fair enough. My recollection of him, particularly between the period 92-97 was a young bull who used to charge out of the forward line at 100 mph and jump high into packs taking big contested chest marks. He took a number of these so to me that would make him a fairly handy pack mark. I haven't seen Liam doing anything like Grant used to do, not yet anyway but the signs are promising...

[Raw Toast]

Thanks for the thread CD, Jones has really impressed me the last couple of weeks.

I think the trial of him as a second ruck has really helped him, as he's started touching the ball a bit more and is going for his marks with much more confidence - most of us had heard stories from training that were testament to his contested marking potential, but maybe he needed to get his positioning (and associated skills) better for this level. He's also been able to outmark opposing ruckman which can be easier than outmarking defenders (many current rucks tend to struggle to defend well in one-on-one marking contests).

What do others think about Jones as a semi-longterm 2nd ruck/forward option? I'm hopeful but have only seen the last two games on TV. He's been pretty good when the ball hits the ground which is promising.

My quick perspective on a couple of other point:

Chris Grant was an excellent field kick pretty much all of his career, but did get the yips in front of goal for significant periods. Jones is often a very good field kick - he has made some beautiful passes along with some shockers this year.

Grant took some amazing pack marks, but tended to get most of his touches (as a forward) from leading and reading the play - death by a thousands cuts was more his style as opposed to Carey's aerial dominance.


Back to Liam jones, watching the replay I was very impressed not just by his marking, which is a strength of his, but did anyone notice the quick hands. I think 3 times lovely handballs from him were part of a chain that led to goals, including the great passage which led to Cooney's gem.

I can't wait to see him next year, he is really blossoming.

Completely agree r54. Jones' has shown excellent hands and has been valuable when the ball has hit the deck which certainly surprised me - it's part of why I think he might be able to help us out as the makeshift 2nd ruck for at least awhile.

[stefoid]

He looks better and better as each week passes. As for the comment about Grant, has anyone seriously suggested he has the build to be our major tall forward? He's a third tall with an edge in pace and should be developed as such.

Grant = FF for mine.

[jeemak]

Grant = FF for mine.

Agree, Grant will be a leading FF and will take the odd hanger when we manage to get the jump on any pressing over defenders who attempt to block his leading space. Over time I think his real asset will be in confusing defenders through an ability to lead towards it or jump all over them. But FF is his go.

We were extremely Hall conscious last year, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, he was a presence we hadn't had since all of the players kicking the ball forward had been at the club. He wasn't a risky option. Secondly, our forward structure suffered badly when Johnson, Hahn and Akermanis weren't playing consistently, let alone consistently well and were replace by very innexperienced players.

There's a spot for all of Jones, Hall and Grant in the one forward line, as each has attributes that require solid defence to quell meaning they will stretch any defence. With Hall coming in to some form, it would be disappointing if we over rely on him for the rest of the year and ignore Jones and Grant. They should have, to this point, had enough strategy training put in to them to ensure they present at different times and in different positions, and our midfield should be capable of understanding this rather than take the easy option of kicking to Hall.

With continuity gained through playing together, these three should present a lot of headaches for opposition over the coming weeks. And with some quick pressure players at their feet, in Dahlhaus and Hooper, complemented by the class of Gia we have an unpredictable, pressuring and dangerous forward line all of a sudden.

[Remi Moses]

Coming along nicely. His efforts and his good hands are a feature, his kicking needs work.
With his field kicking he tends to lean back and off one step spray them.

[chef]

Fair enough. My recollection of him, particularly between the period 92-97 was a young bull who used to charge out of the forward line at 100 mph and jump high into packs taking big contested chest marks. He took a number of these so to me that would make him a fairly handy pack mark. I haven't seen Liam doing anything like Grant used to do, not yet anyway but the signs are promising...

That's what I remember too. I used to be amazed by how he would still take the ball on his chest while smashing through or going over a pack.

Liam is a more arms outstretched kind of mark.

[1eyedog]

Thanks for the thread CD, Jones has really impressed me the last couple of weeks.

I think the trial of him as a second ruck has really helped him, as he's started touching the ball a bit more and is going for his marks with much more confidence - most of us had heard stories from training that were testament to his contested marking potential, but maybe he needed to get his positioning (and associated skills) better for this level. He's also been able to outmark opposing ruckman which can be easier than outmarking defenders (many current rucks tend to struggle to defend well in one-on-one marking contests).

What do others think about Jones as a semi-longterm 2nd ruck/forward option? I'm hopeful but have only seen the last two games on TV. He's been pretty good when the ball hits the ground which is promising.

My quick perspective on a couple of other point:

Chris Grant was an excellent field kick pretty much all of his career, but did get the yips in front of goal for significant periods. Jones is often a very good field kick - he has made some beautiful passes along with some shockers this year.

Grant took some amazing pack marks, but tended to get most of his touches (as a forward) from leading and reading the play - death by a thousands cuts was more his style as opposed to Carey's aerial dominance.



Completely agree r54. Jones' has shown excellent hands and has been valuable when the ball has hit the deck which certainly surprised me - it's part of why I think he might be able to help us out as the makeshift 2nd ruck for at least awhile.

I don't want to break him too early. I would hope that we could afford to play someone like a Minson/Roughhead or a Roughhead/Cordy combination post-Hudson because Roughead is versatile and mobile enough to go forward. If this is possible there is no need for Jones to ruck. I don't think he gives us a lot in the ruck-he's simply not a ruckman-it's more through necessity that he's been doing it.

[1eyedog]

Agree, Grant will be a leading FF and will take the odd hanger when we manage to get the jump on any pressing over defenders who attempt to block his leading space. Over time I think his real asset will be in confusing defenders through an ability to lead towards it or jump all over them. But FF is his go.

We were extremely Hall conscious last year, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, he was a presence we hadn't had since all of the players kicking the ball forward had been at the club. He wasn't a risky option. Secondly, our forward structure suffered badly when Johnson, Hahn and Akermanis weren't playing consistently, let alone consistently well and were replace by very innexperienced players.

There's a spot for all of Jones, Hall and Grant in the one forward line, as each has attributes that require solid defence to quell meaning they will stretch any defence. With Hall coming in to some form, it would be disappointing if we over rely on him for the rest of the year and ignore Jones and Grant. They should have, to this point, had enough strategy training put in to them to ensure they present at different times and in different positions, and our midfield should be capable of understanding this rather than take the easy option of kicking to Hall.

With continuity gained through playing together, these three should present a lot of headaches for opposition over the coming weeks. And with some quick pressure players at their feet, in Dahlhaus and Hooper, complemented by the class of Gia we have an unpredictable, pressuring and dangerous forward line all of a sudden.

How good is that and a very promising forward set up come finals!

[LostDoggy]

It's been great to see this young man growing in confidence and I agree with those that have suggested that continuing to play him and not drop him back to Williamstown can only help. I look forward to watching him for many years to come!

[w3design]

The 'great man' himself (Chris Grant) has compared Jones to an Earl Spalding type. Not to ever disagree with the great one, but wasn't Spalding a workhorse toiler type? There is something more naturally gifted about Liam, I think. As for marking, he doesn't perhaps do brute attacks on the footy a la Brown or Carey but has lovely touch and feel for the footy. Martin Flanagan once described Chris Grant beautifully as 'the boy with the solemn hands.' Liam has a bit of that about him too. Will enjoy watching his progress.

[Mofra]

Back to Liam jones, watching the replay I was very impressed not just by his marking, which is a strength of his, but did anyone notice the quick hands. I think 3 times lovely handballs from him were part of a chain that led to goals, including the great passage which led to Cooney's gem.
There was one over the top lookaway handball which was sublime, led to a Bulldogs goal.

[1eyedog]

The 'great man' himself (Chris Grant) has compared Jones to an Earl Spalding type. Not to ever disagree with the great one, but wasn't Spalding a workhorse toiler type? There is something more naturally gifted about Liam, I think. As for marking, he doesn't perhaps do brute attacks on the footy a la Brown or Carey but has lovely touch and feel for the footy. Martin Flanagan once described Chris Grant beautifully as 'the boy with the solemn hands.' Liam has a bit of that about him too. Will enjoy watching his progress.

Spalding was a bit of a clanker but he was a very clever player. An atrocious kick of course but he had wonderful vision. I think Jones will be a better pack mark, although Spalding was no slouch here either but I can see the similarlities with Spalding when Jones dishes out neat little handballs at full tilt or ones back over his head.

[Ghost Dog]

Just listening to the replay of the NAB rising star.
Liam was ranked 6th in the entire league in contested marks. Well done lad

[azabob]

Just listening to the replay of the NAB rising star.
Liam was ranked 6th in the entire league in contested marks. Well done lad

If you look further into the stats I think you will find he wasn't that far off those who finished ahead of him and he also missed two games.

[G-Mo77]

Just listening to the replay of the NAB rising star.
Liam was ranked 6th in the entire league in contested marks. Well done lad

Which is a stat that is massive in this league, at his age that's a very good accomplishment. Funnily enough a stat that went unnoticed for those asking for him to be sent back to the VFL. :o

Something else that goes unnoticed is the way he is able to bring the ball to the ground. He has the ability amongst 2 or more defenders to bring the ball to the foot of the pack. It's a pity we didn't have a decent player at his feet for most of the season. Dahl will help in that area more next year.

I worry a little about how he'll go next year. There will be a lot more heat on him with Hall out of the team and will probably get that #1 defender most weeks.

[Ghost Dog]

Which is a stat that is massive in this league, at his age that's a very good accomplishment. Funnily enough a stat that went unnoticed for those asking for him to be sent back to the VFL. :o

Something else that goes unnoticed is the way he is able to bring the ball to the ground. He has the ability amongst 2 or more defenders to bring the ball to the foot of the pack. It's a pity we didn't have a decent player at his feet for most of the season. Dahl will help in that area more next year.

I worry a little about how he'll go next year. There will be a lot more heat on him with Hall out of the team and will probably get that #1 defender most weeks.

He's going to cause all kinds of headaches for defenders. when you see interviews with him, looks really determined and mature for a guy his age. Full of hope for this kid.

[Topdog]

Which is a stat that is massive in this league, at his age that's a very good accomplishment. Funnily enough a stat that went unnoticed for those asking for him to be sent back to the VFL. :o


I asked for him to be sent back to the VFL, was well aware of the stats but felt he could gain more confidence but going back and dominating for 1 or 2 weeks. Certainly don't feel embarrassed by my suggestion.

Also on contested marks pretty sure it was Cloke by a country mile and then a pack of 6 or 7 which Jones was a part of. Fantastic effort by the lad.

[bornadog]

I asked for him to be sent back to the VFL, was well aware of the stats but felt he could gain more confidence but going back and dominating for 1 or 2 weeks. Certainly don't feel embarrassed by my suggestion.

Also on contested marks pretty sure it was Cloke by a country mile and then a pack of 6 or 7 which Jones was a part of. Fantastic effort by the lad.

Thats right, Cloke had nearly 60 in the home and away, then the rest were all below 40, with Liam at 34.

[Mantis]

Thats right, Cloke had nearly 60 in the home and away, then the rest were all below 40, with Liam at 34.

I thought it was much higher than that... pushing up towards 100?

I can remember hearing that he was a very good chance to break the all time record which is somewhere up near 90??

[Mofra]

Thats right, Cloke had nearly 60 in the home and away, then the rest were all below 40, with Liam at 34.
Taking into account how much workrate is involved in just presenting repeatedly before you even consider the ability required to take that many contested marks whilst exhausted, that trully is phenominal.
I still have a sense of awe in what some players are able to do.

[bornadog]

I thought it was much higher than that... pushing up towards 100?

I can remember hearing that he was a very good chance to break the all time record which is somewhere up near 90??

Total marks are well over 100 but not contested, in fact 173 marks which is huge.

[Mantis]

Total marks are well over 100 but not contested, in fact 173 marks which is huge.

173 isn't huge, Loewe used to take well over 200 a season back in the day...however Cloke's contested mark figure for 2011 is much higher than the number you produced.

[bornadog]

...however Cloke's contested mark figure for 2011 is much higher than the number you produced.

not according to prostats.com.au

[Mantis]

not according to prostats.com.au

Here is a list I found which I believe is correct:

Contested Marks

Travis Cloke 85
James Podsiadly 50
Drew Petrie 49
Ben Mcevoy 46
Nathan Fyfe 43

The previous record I was talking about was Richo who had the previous mark of 75 which was comfortably beaten by Cloke.

[bornadog]

Here is a list I found which I believe is correct:

Contested Marks

Travis Cloke 85
James Podsiadly 50
Drew Petrie 49
Ben Mcevoy 46
Nathan Fyfe 43

The previous record I was talking about was Richo who had the previous mark of 75 which was comfortably beaten by Cloke.

Prostats must be wrong then. Where is Liam on your list.

[stefoid]

Prostats must be wrong then. Where is Liam on your list.

They may measure contested marks a little more harshly.

[divvydan]

The figures are from the official AFL site.

On there, Jones is in equal 7th total but Cloke, Pods, McEvoy, S.Reid, Kennedy, Goodes have all had a finals game as well.

If you take W1 finals out, Jones goes above Goodes, Reid and equal with Kennedy in equal 5th with Fyfe as well.

[bornadog]

They may measure contested marks a little more harshly.

How do you mean?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Galaxy Coleman took over 200 marks in 1992

[bornadog]

Galaxy Coleman took over 200 marks in 1992

So did Lake last year - 240

[Mofra]

So did Lake last year - 240
Half of thsoe were in that North Meblourne game where he had 576 possies though ;)

[bornadog]

Half of thsoe were in that North Meblourne game where he had 576 possies though ;)

One of my favourite games last year. Hall's headlock on Thompson, Lake on his own in the backline playing kick to kick and smashing North.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

So did Lake last year - 240

Lot of people forget how good Lake is/was.

[Sedat]

Lot of people forget how good Lake is/was.
He is an elite player of the competition, superior to every other key defender from 2008-2010 (including Scarlett). His head-space will determine whether or not he will scale those heights again in a Bulldogs jumper.

[LostDoggy]

173 isn't huge, Loewe used to take well over 200 a season back in the day...however Cloke's contested mark figure for 2011 is much higher than the number you produced.

Buckets taking an awesome grab then kicking a behind is my abiding memory of '90s footy, for some reason. I always used to check to see how many behinds the Saints kicked in their game, just for a laugh.

[westdog54]

One of my favourite games last year. Hall's headlock on Thompson, Lake on his own in the backline playing kick to kick and smashing North.

After the 'headlock' North kicked their first goal of the game (with 5 minutes to go in the first half) from the goalsquare after a soft 50 against Brian, who was helping Barry out.

From the next clearance we swept it forward and Stack snapped a goal.

The spray that followed about how that was the way to kick your goals was the most vocal I've been at the footy in about 5 years. .

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The spray that followed about how that was the way to kick your goals was the most vocal I've been at the footy in about 5 years. .

I fondly remember using words to that effect. :D

Great game.

Getting back to Jones, 2012 will be a huge test. Hopefully he doesn't get ahead of himself, by trying to take on too much. Focus on the basics - defensive pressure, leading to the right spots etc.

Expecting him to boot 30-40 goals might be a bit daunting, so hopefully we manage him OK mentally.

[stefoid]

How do you mean?

I mean their criteria for judging when a mark is contested or not might be stricter. i.e. You might consider a mark taken under indirect pressure to be contested, or you might require that the opponent be making body contact.

[1eyedog]

Galaxy Coleman took over 200 marks in 1992

I think Joel Bowden was very close to 200 in 2007

[1eyedog]

Lot of people forget how good Lake is/was.

Indeed, he is elite and in my opinion was a better full back between 2008-2010 than Scarlett or anyone else.

[w3design]

I'm on cloud 9 atm haha. Very drunk but I just spoke to Jones on the phone :)

One of my mates was in melbourne signing papers with his management about his own newly penned trade back to SA. Hear him knocking on a door and then "Oi Jonesy, mad Bulldogs fan on the phone". Had a good 5 minute chat with him.

I probably sounded like a dick, I'm so drunk.

[comrade]

I'm on cloud 9 atm haha. Very drunk but I just spoke to Jones on the phone :)

One of my mates was in melbourne signing papers with his management about his own newly penned trade back to SA. Hear him knocking on a door and then "Oi Jonesy, mad Bulldogs fan on the phone". Had a good 5 minute chat with him.

I probably sounded like a dick, I'm so drunk.

Who's your mate?

[Desipura]

I'm on cloud 9 atm haha. Very drunk but I just spoke to Jones on the phone :)

One of my mates was in melbourne signing papers with his management about his own newly penned trade back to SA. Hear him knocking on a door and then "Oi Jonesy, mad Bulldogs fan on the phone". Had a good 5 minute chat with him.

I probably sounded like a dick, I'm so drunk.

You probably don't even remember what you said

[w3design]

Who's your mate?

Lewis Johnston. He was at the AIS-AFL academy with Jones and they have stayed pretty good mates.


You probably don't even remember what you said

I remember saying a quick hi to Tutt and Dahl, then just talking to Jones for a bit.

I remember:

"So what's your name?

"Gus"

"nice to meet you"

"we're not meeting, we're only talking on the phone"


:o

[LostDoggy]

Internet and alcohol don't mix Gus ;)

[w3design]

Internet and alcohol don't mix Gus ;)

Neither does alcohol and talking on the phone to guys you spend 6 months a year pumping up and getting excited over.

[soupman]

I remember:

"So what's your name?

"Gus"

"nice to meet you"

"we're not meeting, we're only talking on the phone"


:o

This is brilliant.

[LostDoggy]

Internet and alcohol don't mix Gus ;)

What are you talking about? I'm always posting tanked. I guess that explains a lot.

Also when I'm alone in a big city the first thing I tend to do when I get back to my hotel is jump on WOOF -- it's come to represent 'home' in many ways.

[w3design]

This is brilliant.



He laughed a bit. I facepalmed myself.