Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

[w3design]

The midfield got slaughtered, but what did you make of our kick-out tactics? (serious question btw).

It seemed to me that we were trying to create a quick transference of play out the back, and even though we didn't seem to win one of these contests all day, we stuck to it.
Whatever the rationale, sticking to it all day seemed like madness. Would like to see the stats for how often we retained possession.

[LostDoggy]

I wonder how much of a factor the small, tight ground played in our kickout strategy??

Hudson does not do enough in this area. Simply does not take enough contested Marks.

[Ghost Dog]

So disappointed by this season. Still, maybe we should be pessoptimistic.

At least we didn't drag ourselves into the finals only to be whalloped. Better to start re-building now.

[giaco]

The same reason that the likes of Jay Van Berlo, Kepler Bradley, Luke Vogels, Ed Sansbury, Marty McGrath, Daniel Bandy, Nigel Fiegert, etc.... have ripped us a new one in the past. No other club has such a rich history in making battlers and flat-out spuds look like the second coming of Wayne Carey :o

Very good but you forgot David Mensch and Daniel Metropolis.

[Dry Rot]

Still too angry to post much after going to the SCG yesterday.

Just astonished at how far this team has fallen in two seasons.

Don't be fooled by the final score - that was a ten goal + belting. Swans were very inaccurate and dominated play.

We were only competitive for only half of the second quarter.

Good news is that most of the defenders were really good under that bombardment - Except for kick-ins. Wood really surprised and Williams was really assured. Markovic good.

Boyd's awful disposal is difficult to really appreciate on TV but a few rows back from the fence at the 50 metre arc gives a really good view of his pointless kicks.

Moment of the afternoon was our guys kicking the pill to Dollhouse. Only problem was that he was the one Dog up against Mumford of all players and another pretty tall Swan.

We have the awareness and decision making of a squashed cane toad.

[Mantis]

Just astonished at how far this team has fallen in two seasons.



I am more concerned about the drop off in the past 2 weeks.

Against Carlton we looked like a quality outfit, but we have played like a bottom 4 team the past 2 weeks.

I can't work out why.

[bornadog]

I am more concerned about the drop off in the past 2 weeks.

Against Carlton we looked like a quality outfit, but we have played like a bottom 4 team the past 2 weeks.

I can't work out why.

Pretty simple - midfield has crashed.

[Mantis]

Pretty simple - midfield has crashed.

And it all points towards a rough & ready ride over the coming years.... I feel we are in for some pain once again.

[The Pie Man]

I am more concerned about the drop off in the past 2 weeks.

Against Carlton we looked like a quality outfit, but we have played like a bottom 4 team the past 2 weeks.
I can't work out why.

We did, though I believe Carlton were very flat that night (which in part may have been due to our good play)

Walker was crook, Waite injured and subbed, Betts had a howler thanks to the Glove and their usual midfield suspects looked subdued.

[The Pie Man]

And it all points towards a rough & ready ride over the coming years.... I feel we are in for some pain once again.

Me too :(

Not the year to do it with the GWS draft - though I'll give us this, unearthing Schofield so late (ok he hasn't made it, but he looks promising) in the draft gives me some hope

[Sedat]

And it all points towards a rough & ready ride over the coming years.... I feel we are in for some pain once again.
I'd have thought our future inside midfield stocks are in good order (assuming Ward stays). We certainly have some holes elsewhere to fill but I can't see us becoming competition whipping boys overnight. A lot will depend on Cooney's injury management and Lake's ability to return to AA form, simply put all teams need their best players playing at or near their best and we haven't had this in 2011 for a variety of reasons.

[Mantis]

I'd have thought our future inside midfield stocks are in good order (assuming Ward stays). We certainly have some holes elsewhere to fill but I can't see us becoming competition whipping boys overnight. A lot will depend on Cooney's injury management and Lake's ability to return to AA form, simply put all teams need their best players playing at or near their best and we haven't had this in 2011 for a variety of reasons.

But if Ward goes, which I guess is a realistic chance of occuring our inside mids look poor. We have Libba & .... ??

Our lack of outside mids is really concerning, Griff has carried the load this year and is starting to show real fatigue. Cooney showed just how important he is when he played 3 terrific games in a row, but his last 2 weeks have been poor and his effect on our overall performance is there for all to see. As per the reports last week he probably won't be able to play good consistent footy over an entire season which is what we need from him. Besides these 2 the cupboard looks a little bare.

Lake well, who knows. We would love for him to get back to his best, but reports are that he isn't happy, so perhaps he might look elsewhere.

Some huge decisions are to be made at our club in the short term which will have a massive effect on how we go over the coming years.... Lets hope we make the correct calls.

[bornadog]

But if Ward goes, which I guess is a realistic chance of occuring our inside mids look poor. We have Libba & .... ??

Our lack of outside mids is really concerning, Griff has carried the load this year and is starting to show real fatigue. Cooney showed just how important he is when he played 3 terrific games in a row, but his last 2 weeks have been poor and his effect on our overall performance is there for all to see. As per the reports last week he probably won't be able to play good consistent footy over an entire season which is what we need from him. Besides these 2 the cupboard looks a little bare.

Lake well, who knows. We would love for him to get back to his best, but reports are that he isn't happy, so perhaps he might look elsewhere.

Some huge decisions are to be made at our club in the short term which will have a massive effect on how we go over the coming years.... Lets hope we make the correct calls.

Are there any young players that can end up as midfielders? We have Wallis but he looks a little way off. Can the likes of Tutt, Schofield end up in the midfield. What about Wood, is his best role on a HBF, can he play a midfield role? Can Sherman become a good outside midfielder?

Agree some big decisions need to be made on player management.

[1eyedog]

But if Ward goes, which I guess is a realistic chance of occuring our inside mids look poor. We have Libba & .... ??

Our lack of outside mids is really concerning, Griff has carried the load this year and is starting to show real fatigue. Cooney showed just how important he is when he played 3 terrific games in a row, but his last 2 weeks have been poor and his effect on our overall performance is there for all to see. As per the reports last week he probably won't be able to play good consistent footy over an entire season which is what we need from him. Besides these 2 the cupboard looks a little bare.

Lake well, who knows. We would love for him to get back to his best, but reports are that he isn't happy, so perhaps he might look elsewhere.

Some huge decisions are to be made at our club in the short term which will have a massive effect on how we go over the coming years.... Lets hope we make the correct calls.

Would you consider Picken as a genuine mid or a tagger? What about for the future? I am very optimistic about Wallis as well as Libba. I think he will be a very good insider for us, I just don't know how good. Also, I think Dahlhaus has the ability to be a very good outsider (even though he wins alot of contested ball), he's got the pace and the vision. Sherman will get better as an outsider as well, he's only 25(?) so has a good 5 years at the club I hope.

Some people see him as a wing man but I think Wood could play both inside and outside once established. He has pace to burn and doesn't mind a bit of rough stuff as he showed against the Swans. As a long-term prospect I'm almost prepared to say I'd rather lose Ward than Wood. I think he'll be a gun.

The future in the midfield looks good.

[LostDoggy]

Would you consider Picken as a genuine mid or a tagger? What about for the future? I am very optimistic about Wallis as well as Libba. I think he will be a very good insider for us, I just don't know how good. Also, I think Dahlhaus has the ability to be a very good outsider (even though he wins alot of contested ball), he's got the pace and the vision. Sherman will get better as an outsider as well, he's only 25(?) so has a good 5 years at the club I hope.

Some people see him as a wing man but I think Wood could play both inside and outside once established. He has pace to burn and doesn't mind a bit of rough stuff as he showed against the Swans. As a long-term prospect I'm almost prepared to say I'd rather lose Ward than Wood. I think he'll be a gun.

The future in the midfield looks good.

All the names mentioned are great honest players, but I don't think there's a real A+ star in that lot. Where's the class going to come from? Where's our Juddy, our Cousins, our Goodes.. our Cooney, at that?

I agree that the bottom may not necessarily fall out of the team, but I don't see that bunch taking us to a flag either.

[1eyedog]

All the names mentioned are great honest players, but I don't think there's a real A+ star in that lot. Where's the class going to come from? Where's our Juddy, our Cousins, our Goodes.. our Cooney, at that?

I agree that the bottom may not necessarily fall out of the team, but I don't see that bunch taking us to a flag either.

Do you think we need a star of the competition to win a flag? I think we need an even balance of very, very good players. The names above don't come along very often. There are 6 Brownlows there.

[Doc26]

Adam's prospects no doubt sound bleak and as such for now so do ours. Adam firing does cover up a lot of issues for us and I can't think of an outside mid on our list that can legitimately step up to provide the value he has brought us when right.

As much as every man and their dog will be after him, what chance putting in a pursuit for Dangerfield who by all accounts wants to return to Victoria ? Is there something we could offer the Crows to work a pre season trade or is the cupboard bare of options ?

[Sedat]

If we don't have anyone on our list approximating Cooney's devastating run and carry ability, and we will be paying significant overs for anyone with half of Coon's talent (such as Dangerfield), wouldn't it be wiser to invest even more heavily in Cooney's well-being to get him as close to 100% for as much of the remainder of his career as possible? We're talking about a player in his mid 20's, not someone who is about to be shipped off to the glue factory.

[1eyedog]

If we don't have anyone on our list approximating Cooney's devastating run and carry ability, and we will be paying significant overs for anyone with half of Coon's talent (such as Dangerfield), wouldn't it be wiser to invest even more heavily in Cooney's well-being to get him as close to 100% for as much of the remainder of his career as possible? We're talking about a player in his mid 20's, not someone who is about to be shipped off to the glue factory.

This.

Although Dangerfield has the goods. Why has Craig been playing him out of FF?

[1eyedog]

Higgins.

Roughead. Adelaide's big man stocks are all over the place. We look at Roughead and hope Cordy comes on to help out Will.

[LostDoggy]

Do you think we need a star of the competition to win a flag? I think we need an even balance of very, very good players. The names above don't come along very often. There are 6 Brownlows there.

I think you answered your own question there -- all those Browlows (minus Coons) have been involved in flags in the last 5 years. Geelong also had Gablett (another Brownlow) and Bartel (Brownlow), Collingwood have Swan and Pendles, easily two of the top 10 mids in the comp, supported by other guns. Hawthorn won their flag on the back of a star of the comp (Franklin) having a year out of the box. Even Sydney had the aforementioned Goodes and Hall at his peak.

I don't think you're going to find many teams winning a flag without a bunch of genuine elites.

[LostDoggy]

If we don't have anyone on our list approximating Cooney's devastating run and carry ability, and we will be paying significant overs for anyone with half of Coon's talent (such as Dangerfield), wouldn't it be wiser to invest even more heavily in Cooney's well-being to get him as close to 100% for as much of the remainder of his career as possible? We're talking about a player in his mid 20's, not someone who is about to be shipped off to the glue factory.

Are you assuming that we HAVEN'T been doing everything we can to get Coons right? My assumption is that this is as good as it gets -- when it comes to degenerative injuries it doesn't really matter how old you are.

[Doc26]

If we don't have anyone on our list approximating Cooney's devastating run and carry ability, and we will be paying significant overs for anyone with half of Coon's talent (such as Dangerfield), wouldn't it be wiser to invest even more heavily in Cooney's well-being to get him as close to 100% for as much of the remainder of his career as possible? We're talking about a player in his mid 20's, not someone who is about to be shipped off to the glue factory.

Yes lets do what it takes to manage Cooney through, I'm expecting we're doing this and will need to continue for the remainder of his career. To do this will mean we can't rely on him to win us games and as such will need to bolster our outside mids.

We're currently paying overs for Lake placid who by accounts is unhappy and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see his name active in trade week. Of course who will be prepared to wear his current package based on the doubt on him will be at the forefront of any possible discussion. The Lake story of 2011 has been a debarcle. Right now I'm so disillusioned by him that I'd see him go if we could work something in our favour.

[Greystache]

This.

Although Dangerfield has the goods. Why has Craig been playing him out of FF?

Because Dangerfield cant find the ball more than 15 times or so in the midfield, he wins some contested ball, but he can't get it on the outside to use his run. He's at a crossroad in his career IMO to see if he can improve his skillset and become a good player, or if he's going to be stuck being a player who can do some nice things but just an average player overall.


Roughead. Adelaide's big man stocks are all over the place. We look at Roughead and hope Cordy comes on to help out Will.

Absolutely not, nothing we've seen has shown us Cordy will be a viable AFL ruckman, both ability and body wise. Hudson looks cooked, Minson is hardly a star, and if injury strikes our back up would be Jones or Prato. No thanks.

[Greystache]

Higgins.

Agree, especially with his perceived value being high this year. He's a slow unaccountable forward, a nice user of the ball who won't man up in defence, too injury prone and unfit to play in the midfield, and he avoids body contact wherever possible. He'd be my first choice.

[bornadog]

Agree, especially with his perceived value being high this year. He's a slow unaccountable forward, a nice user of the ball who won't man up in defence, too injury prone and unfit to play in the midfield, and he avoids body contact wherever possible. He'd be my first choice.

You have to give something to get something, no use throwing up hasbeens or could have beens.

[1eyedog]

Agree, especially with his perceived value being high this year. He's a slow unaccountable forward, a nice user of the ball who won't man up in defence, too injury prone and unfit to play in the midfield, and he avoids body contact wherever possible. He'd be my first choice.

The problem is everyone knows it. He would have very little collateral. If you want something handy you've got to give up something handy and Higgins is only handy when the going is good.

Bornadog are you saying Higins is actually worth something?

[Greystache]

You have to give something to get something, no use throwing up hasbeens or could have beens.

The trick is putting up a could have been that everyone still thinks is a will be.


The problem is everyone knows it. He would have very little collateral. If you want something handy you've got to give up something handy and Higgins is only handy when the going is good.

Bornadog are you saying Higins is actually worth something?

I think his perceived value would still be quite high, the general view is he's been very good since moving to half back.

[Desipura]

So Greystache we trade Higgins, Lake and retire Hall and Gilbee. Ward may leave to GWS
I would think we should be keeping our senior players in the 22-26 year bracket and try and gain the likes of Dangerfield for one of the first rounders for Ward.
We dont want this to be any bigger rebuild than it is likely to be.

[Maddog37]

I would be interested in Vince if an opportunity presented itself. He is a good user and still young.

[Sedat]

Are you assuming that we HAVEN'T been doing everything we can to get Coons right? My assumption is that this is as good as it gets -- when it comes to degenerative injuries it doesn't really matter how old you are.
Definitely not. Having said that, Andrew McLeod had a degenerative knee from about 2002 onwards and managed to stretch out a high quality career for another 8-9 seasons - I'm confident that if we manage Coons right for the rest of his career, he can give us similarly high quality output for another 5-7 seasons. As far as I'm concerned, that is worth more than picking up a Cooney-lite for the cost of a small fortune when we have other pressing holes on our list that we need to fill. Coons and Griff are a powerful duo that will be on our list and providing almost optimum levels of performance until 2016-17 you'd imagine. Let's add to this from within, via the draft.

My key concern (especially so now that Scott Clayton's wise head is no longer at our disposal during trade week) is that we part with too much to plug holes on our list, and what we recerive doesn't plug the holes in any event. Sherman hasn't even managed to reach Eagle levels of run and carry, Vesz isn't the Johnno replacement we hoped for, and DJ hasn't been the inside ball winning presence with the strong defensive intensity either. Meanwhile a player like Walker has become a destructive 3rd forward and is now completely off limits for any clubs when 8 months ago he was worth about the same as a Sherman on the open market. I'm all for smart trading, but it needs to plug holes on our list in the way that Ben Hudson did.

[1eyedog]

I would be interested in Vince if an opportunity presented itself. He is a good user and still young.

There won't.

[LostDoggy]

Definitely not. Having said that, Andrew McLeod had a degenerative knee from about 2002 onwards and managed to stretch out a high quality career for another 8-9 seasons - I'm confident that if we manage Coons right for the rest of his career, he can give us similarly high quality output for another 5-7 seasons. As far as I'm concerned, that is worth more than picking up a Cooney-lite for the cost of a small fortune when we have other pressing holes on our list that we need to fill. Coons and Griff are a powerful duo that will be on our list and providing almost optimum levels of performance until 2016-17 you'd imagine. Let's add to this from within, via the draft.

My key concern (especially so now that Scott Clayton's wise head is no longer at our disposal during trade week) is that we part with too much to plug holes on our list, and what we recerive doesn't plug the holes in any event. Sherman hasn't even managed to reach Eagle levels of run and carry, Vesz isn't the Johnno replacement we hoped for, and DJ hasn't been the inside ball winning presence with the strong defensive intensity either. Meanwhile a player like Walker has become a destructive 3rd forward and is now completely off limits for any clubs when 8 months ago he was worth about the same as a Sherman on the open market. I'm all for smart trading, but it needs to plug holes on our list in the way that Ben Hudson did.


Agree with everything you've written -- certainly don't have a heck of a lot of confidence in our performance come trade-time.

McLeod did have to make significant changes to his position and role though, playing mostly off half-back. I take it that you are suggesting that Coons and Griff will continue to plug away in the heat of the battle? That's a recipe for inconsistent output and if we can groom someone else (or pick up early in the draft) to be that elite mid we could go a long way to protecting Coon's career.

I like someone else's suggestion that we play Coons largely in the forward 50 -- his finishing is as good as anyone in the comp, he's a good set-shot, great mark for his size, and his skill level will have him generally outclassing most medium sized defenders. With the lower wear and tear, he will also be able to contribute some pace to our forward press, and his crumbing skills are also pretty darn handy. Of course he can then still take stints in the middle. Maybe a new Johnno in the making?

[Mantis]

My key concern (especially so now that Scott Clayton's wise head is no longer at our disposal during trade week) is that we part with too much to plug holes on our list, and what we recerive doesn't plug the holes in any event. Sherman hasn't even managed to reach Eagle levels of run and carry, Vesz isn't the Johnno replacement we hoped for, and DJ hasn't been the inside ball winning presence with the strong defensive intensity either. Meanwhile a player like Walker has become a destructive 3rd forward and is now completely off limits for any clubs when 8 months ago he was worth about the same as a Sherman on the open market. I'm all for smart trading, but it needs to plug holes on our list in the way that Ben Hudson did.

Against crabs.

What's his record like against teams that can play??... I will save you the time checking and let you know that it's terrible.

[Desipura]

Against crabs.

What's his record like against teams that can play??... I will save you the time checking and let you know that it's terrible.

He kicked a number of goals on Morris did he not?

[Greystache]

So Greystache we trade Higgins, Lake and retire Hall and Gilbee. Ward may leave to GWS
I would think we should be keeping our senior players in the 22-26 year bracket and try and gain the likes of Dangerfield for one of the first rounders for Ward.
We dont want this to be any bigger rebuild than it is likely to be.

Lake's contracted, I like to think Ward will stay, Hall will be a loss but we recruited him at 33, and Hudson and Gilbee won't be missed next year (though Gilbee is contracted).

Higgins is 22, I'd expect we'd trade a player in that age bracket for a player who's a similar age who can offer more going forward.

[Sedat]

I take it that you are suggesting that Coons and Griff will continue to plug away in the heat of the battle? That's a recipe for inconsistent output and if we can groom someone else (or pick up early in the draft) to be that elite mid we could go a long way to protecting Coon's career.
Not necessarily. He should be primarily playing the outside role that he was initially drafted for. Chris Judd has gone the opposite way from an outside ball carrier (which won him a Brownlow) to an inside ball winning machine (which also won him a Brownlow) - I think Coons can become a seriously destructive outside run and carry presence if given less time to get bashed up in the coalface. I also like him up forward for periods as well. He is an elite talent that requires constant attention from the opposition wherever he plays.

Griff should also be used outside moreso than inside. Most teams have one bonafide 'extractor', which we have Ward (hopefully) and Libba as long-term propositions in this role, and Boyd/Cross short term. Having Coons and Griff in at the coalface is dumb for a club that struggles so much to run and spread from the initial contest.

[Doc26]

Roughead. Adelaide's big man stocks are all over the place. We look at Roughead and hope Cordy comes on to help out Will.

For me Roughead is one of our untouchables. Still very bullish about his prospects and for the urgency in our need to retain him.

Until the AFL steal him for one of their play things I'd lock him down tightly.

If their was currency in Shaun then we should consider what concoction could be had. As up and down as his current form suggests I still like Dangerfield, has an ugly but good head on his shoulders. For us to prolong Cooney's career, which I desperately hope we can achieve, I can't see it being the power four quarter midfielder that he has been capable of.

[LostDoggy]

How did we expect Ves to be a Johnno replacement when one of Johnno's main weapons was being able to run all day while Ves's biggest knock is that his tank? Just don't understand the thinking behind the trade, and with a whole season in the twos and unable to break into a non-performing senior team, it seems that the MC is equally none the wiser.

[Greystache]

He kicked a number of goals on Morris did he not?

He kicked 1, which was against Cross while we were trying to re-arrange match ups after Yarran went forward. Wood beat him easily.

[bornadog]

He kicked 1, which was against Cross while we were trying to re-arrange match ups after Yarran went forward. Wood beat him easily.

Yes that was a great game by Wood. As he gets more game time he is going to be a very good player for us.

[Desipura]

He kicked 1, which was against Cross while we were trying to re-arrange match ups after Yarran went forward. Wood beat him easily.
I thought in one game he kicked goals against Morris, I might be thinking of Welsh

[Sedat]

Against crabs.

What's his record like against teams that can play??... I will save you the time checking and let you know that it's terrible.
You're probably right but then what's the record of 90% of our playing group against team 'that can play'? Especially at the pointy end of the season. Walker was a dead duck but had a blinder in a final last year which ultimately saved his career at Carlton - on that score alone he's ahead of several of our senior players.

[LostDoggy]

Not necessarily. He should be primarily playing the outside role that he was initially drafted for. Chris Judd has gone the opposite way from an outside ball carrier (which won him a Brownlow) to an inside ball winning machine (which also won him a Brownlow) - I think Coons can become a seriously destructive outside run and carry presence if given less time to get bashed up in the coalface. I also like him up forward for periods as well. He is an elite talent that requires constant attention from the opposition wherever he plays.

Griff should also be used outside moreso than inside. Most teams have one bonafide 'extractor', which we have Ward (hopefully) and Libba as long-term propositions in this role, and Boyd/Cross short term. Having Coons and Griff in at the coalface is dumb for a club that struggles so much to run and spread from the initial contest.

Preaching to the choir. I've talked about a clearer division of labour for years with our midfield group.

Having said that though, the first thing that goes with a knee is that initial burst of speed. His top speed will still be good if he can build up to it (a la McLeod playing off half-back) but he just won't be the same player over the first 5 metres as he's been in the past.

Having said THAT, my theory on Coons's knee is good year/bad year/good year/bad year, so look for him to come out next year and blitz the field. :)

[Greystache]

I thought in one game he kicked goals against Morris, I might be thinking of Welsh

Yeah that was Welsh, he was Morris' kryptonite. Which is hard to explain, Welsh was a decent player but Morris has carved up better for fun.

[Greystache]

Yes that was a great game by Wood. As he gets more game time he is going to be a very good player for us.

He's having a very good finish to the season, his injury in round 1 was really unfortunate given his preseason form was excellent.

[chef]

If we don't have anyone on our list approximating Cooney's devastating run and carry ability, and we will be paying significant overs for anyone with half of Coon's talent (such as Dangerfield), wouldn't it be wiser to invest even more heavily in Cooney's well-being to get him as close to 100% for as much of the remainder of his career as possible? We're talking about a player in his mid 20's, not someone who is about to be shipped off to the glue factory.


This.

Although Dangerfield has the goods. Why has Craig been playing him out of FF?

Screw Dangerfield, Vince is the one we should go after.

[chef]

I would be interested in Vince if an opportunity presented itself. He is a good user and still young.


There won't.

He's out of contract and a Victorian.

[chef]

I thought in one game he kicked goals against Morris, I might be thinking of Welsh

It was against Williams(he kicked 5) in a game at AAMI in 2009.

[The Pie Man]

Yeah that was Welsh, he was Morris' kryptonite. Which is hard to explain, Welsh was a decent player but Morris has carved up better for fun.

Was thinking of players that have rarely got hold of him, and they're funnily enough similar size types

DM - 190

S Welsh - 188
S Johnson - 189
A Goodes - 193 (or 194 - a touch taller I clearly have to concede)

Battles manfully against bigger opponents, and regularly slaughters smalls, but some mid ranger's around his size seem to be the ones that can at times enjoy the better of him.

[azabob]

Screw Dangerfield, Vince is the one we should go after.

Vince is a lazy footballer who has only played half a good season of footy. Do you know his family or are you looking from the outside like me?

[azabob]

How did we expect Ves to be a Johnno replacement when one of Johnno's main weapons was being able to run all day while Ves's biggest knock is that his tank? Just don't understand the thinking behind the trade, and with a whole season in the twos and unable to break into a non-performing senior team, it seems that the MC is equally none the wiser.

I like the trade. Vez is a footballer, albeit a lazy one. Still a better option than Everitt. Neither have set the world on fire.

[Desipura]

Yes that was a great game by Wood. As he gets more game time he is going to be a very good player for us.

Good to see you praising Wood as he has huge upside and is currently playing that Glenn Archer type role where he leaves his man and crashes into packs to ensure his teammates opponent does not take a mark

[1eyedog]

Good to see you praising Wood as he has huge upside and is currently playing that Glenn Archer type role where he leaves his man and crashes into packs to ensure his teammates opponent does not take a mark

In the weekly team by team summary in the Sun the journo said Wood was disappointing and let the team down. He clearly didn't watch the game.

[1eyedog]

He's out of contract and a Victorian.

They'll throw the sink at him.

[1eyedog]

How did we expect Ves to be a Johnno replacement when one of Johnno's main weapons was being able to run all day while Ves's biggest knock is that his tank? Just don't understand the thinking behind the trade, and with a whole season in the twos and unable to break into a non-performing senior team, it seems that the MC is equally none the wiser.

Do you really think Ves could step into a Johnno role?

[Go_Dogs]

Because Dangerfield cant find the ball more than 15 times or so in the midfield, he wins some contested ball, but he can't get it on the outside to use his run. He's at a crossroad in his career IMO to see if he can improve his skillset and become a good player, or if he's going to be stuck being a player who can do some nice things but just an average player overall

The knock on him seems to be he's good at running in a straight line, but lacks the lateral movement and agility to be a good inside/outside midfielder. I guess the other (IMO less likely) option is he lacks the smarts to get to the right spots and get dangerous.

He's an interesting prospect, and at the worst should develop into a pretty good mid-sized forward. I'd certainly show interest at the right price.


Vince is a lazy footballer who has only played half a good season of footy. Do you know his family or are you looking from the outside like me?

Not sure I agree, although the evidence tends to suggest you're right. I think if he played in a better side and was a third or fourth midfielder he'd go alright. He could play off hb or hf too.

Again at the right price, probably worth a look.


I like the trade. Vez is a footballer, albeit a lazy one. Still a better option than Everitt. Neither have set the world on fire.

Difference is Everitt has played this year. He has been poor overall, but I still think he could grind out a 100+ game career with a few games for the highlight reel. I'm not confident of Vez playing more than 20 games for us - but I am hopeful he gets a run soon so we can make a better assessment.

[Doc26]

Vince is a lazy footballer who has only played half a good season of footy.

Certainly had a couple of ordinary seasons. There's a lot about him currently that reminds me of Higgins. I believe his perceived value is far greater than his actual. From afar doesn't appear to work hard enough and lacks a turn of speed.

[chef]

Vince is a lazy footballer who has only played half a good season of footy. Do you know his family or are you looking from the outside like me?

Don't agree. He had a breakout out season in 2009 where he was very good for the whole season, winning a BF and going close to AA selection. Last year he was severely hampered by hamstring injuries, while this year every player on the crows list has struggled. I would take Vince over Dangerfield(who looks like he will be Higgins Mach2) in a heart beat.

[LostDoggy]

All the names mentioned are great honest players, but I don't think there's a real A+ star in that lot. Where's the class going to come from? Where's our Juddy, our Cousins, our Goodes.. our Cooney, at that?

I agree that the bottom may not necessarily fall out of the team, but I don't see that bunch taking us to a flag either.

If the names Wallis and Liberatore aren't potential A grade then I dont know what are.

I agree with another one of your posts suggesting Cooney should become a regular forward to prolong his career.

[Maddog37]

Cooney could also become a backman like McLeod in theory. More straight line running might be better for the knee.

[Mantis]

If the names Wallis and Liberatore aren't potential A grade then I dont know what are.



Are they potential A graders because of their names or playing ability?

The Wallis call surprises me on what we have seen this year, what has you believing he has 'star' qualities?

[Sockeye Salmon]

If the names Wallis and Liberatore aren't potential A grade then I dont know what are.



Wishing it doesn't make it so.

[Maddog37]

Doomsayers are riding high now. Cheer up folks.

[Sedat]

Wallis reminds me of Steele Sidebottom in his ability to find space and accumulate possessions without having what you'd call blistering pace. I think another strong pre-season will give him the tank to better find space at AFL level, and more often than he has done this season when he's played seniors. Having said that, 'future star' is far too early a call to make.

[chef]

Wallis reminds me of Steele Sidebottom in his ability to find space and accumulate possessions without having what you'd call blistering pace. I think another strong pre-season will give him the tank to better find space at AFL level, and more often than he has done this season when he's played seniors. Having said that, 'future star' is far too early a call to make.

He reminds me of Priddis.

[Sockeye Salmon]

He reminds me of Priddis.

That's a really good call and not just because of the curls.

The knock on Wallis is his lack of hurt factor by foot - dare I say, Daniel Cross like?

[Ghost Dog]

That's a really good call and not just because of the curls.

The knock on Wallis is his lack of hurt factor by foot - dare I say, Daniel Cross like?

Cross lacking hurt factor??? hurts me plenty almost every time he kicks it, or in anticipation....oh...you...mean hurting the opposition.
err. got it. :D

[LostDoggy]

Are they potential A graders because of their names or playing ability?

The Wallis call surprises me on what we have seen this year, what has you believing he has 'star' qualities?

Bit of both really Mantis, names give them a genetic head start but we have seen how well Libba has taken to the game at 18. Given Wallis apparently collected in excess of 40 possessions in the premier game of players in his peer group certainly shows he has something special.

They both have 'football smarts' in spades too.

I will state again that I am far from the action and do not get to watch Williamstown.


Wishing it doesn't make it so.

The guys are very young and have enormous potential. Saying they have a great chance of being A graders is no sillier than saying they are not. What makes you so sure, at this stage of their career, that they can't become A graders? Brownlow medalists?

There was no wishing involved, I said they are POTENTIAL A graders. It would be silly to discount them given their age and ability.