Lake finished for season

[aker39]

Just announced on Twitter.

[bornadog]

Just announced on Twitter.


With all the injuries, maybe Mitch Hahn will come in?

[LostDoggy]

Best thing to do & i wouldn't play Hahn.

[The Coon Dog]

Lake To Miss Remainder Of Season (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2011/westernbulldogsnewsfeatures/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/119508/default.aspx)

[bornadog]

Explains a lot about his knee soreness. I think some supporters need to apologies for the way they have either written or spoken crap about him.

[LostDoggy]

And if you believe the rumours he will retire at seasons end , I hope his family and friends can convince him to enjoy a solid pre-season and come back fresh for 2012

.

[bornadog]

And if you believe the rumours he will retire at seasons end , I hope his family and friends can convince him to enjoy a solid pre-season and come back fresh for 2012

.

What thats rubbish, as if he would retire and leave $1 million dollars plus over two years

[LostDoggy]

What thats rubbish, as if he would retire and leave $1 million dollars plus over two years

I don,t believe it either but Bwian has had a terrible time since January and mentally he would be very flat , even more so now his season is over , they are only rumours , I,m sure we will see a fit and firing Bwian after pre-season

.

[G-Mo77]

Explains a lot about his knee soreness. I think some supporters need to apologies for the way they have either written or spoken crap about him.

Why?

I still think it would be in our best interest to trade him out. My opinion is that he'll never get back to AA form and we should cut our losses. I'm not going to apologise for having an opinion you don't like. Stop being so holier than now.

[bornadog]

Why?

I still think it would be in our best interest to trade him out. My opinion is that he'll never get back to AA form and we should cut our losses. I'm not going to apologise for having an opinion you don't like. Stop being so holier than now.

Not talking about what you wrote about his form and trading him. All that is your opinion and who am I to say you shouldn't have an opinion. Its more the crap we have heard about unprofessional ism, being a sook, not putting in, his attitude and saying his operations and injuries were not that serious.

[Mantis]

Its more the crap we have heard about unprofessional ism, being a sook, not putting in, his attitude and saying his operations and injuries were not that serious.

How many players will need an operation at the end of the season?

Some get on with the job.... others don't.

[bornadog]

How many players will need an operation at the end of the season?

Some get on with the job.... others don't.

He obviously doesn't. We are all different.

[Sedat]

Not talking about what you wrote about his form and trading him. All that is your opinion and who am I to say you shouldn't have an opinion. Its more the crap we have heard about [B]unprofessional ism, being a sook, not putting in, his attitude and saying his operations and injuries were not that serious.
To be fair, this was intimated in public by our footy dept and was certainly speculated by the media scribes. It wasn't limited to supporters on 'woof'.

[Mantis]

He obviously doesn't. We are all different.

If you fight hard to earn a premium wage you probably have to push a bit harder than your average joe.

[Topdog]

He obviously doesn't. We are all different.

He gets paid $500k a year to get on with the job.

[Doggy]

Now that this decision has been made, I hope that he and the Bulldogs can make a statement confirming his committment to the club and put an end to this whole saga.

[bornadog]

He gets paid $500k a year to get on with the job.

and he has a bung knee that needs an operation. You don't think he wants to play AFL football?

From what I have seen at training and the games he has played, he has put in. Maybe his threshold of pain that he sustains is not like a Shaggy or some other tough players, that is just the way it is. Some people can live with pain and others can't. Maybe the Shaggies of the world would be better to step back and let their injuries heal instead of showing they are tough and they will go out and push the limits, but in the end there are no short cuts.

[G-Mo77]

Now that this decision has been made, I hope that he and the Bulldogs can make a statement confirming his committment to the club and put an end to this whole saga.

I don't think you'll get that though. On paper he's committed to the club for the next 2 years and I think that's all we'll hear.

[BulldogBelle]

and he has a bung knee that needs an operation. You don't think he wants to play AFL football?

From what I have seen at training and the games he has played, he has put in. Maybe his threshold of pain that he sustains is not like a Shaggy or some other tough players, that is just the way it is. Some people can live with pain and others can't. Maybe the Shaggies of the world would be better to step back and let their injuries heal instead of showing they are tough and they will go out and push the limits, but in the end there are no short cuts.

We don't know how much pain he has been going through so we can't say whether he has a low pain threshold or not.

Get well soon Brian.

[chef]

With all the injuries, maybe Mitch Hahn will come in?

Why?


That would be a step backwards IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Not talking about what you wrote about his form and trading him. All that is your opinion and who am I to say you shouldn't have an opinion. Its more the crap we have heard about unprofessional ism, being a sook, not putting in, his attitude and saying his operations and injuries were not that serious.


Didn't say woof, I said some supporters.

Only quoted yours but not directed to you in particular BAD, but guys… stop turning this forum into BigFooty. bornadog is 100% right: supporters have no right to flame him without knowing all the facts.

[Dancin' Douggy]

How many players will need an operation at the end of the season?

Some get on with the job.... others don't.

Come on Mantis, that's ridiculous.
How do you know how much pain he's in?
Yes some players play through a CERTAIN AMOUNT of pain, but no one can play through debilitating pain.
There may be more to the Brian Lake story than injuries, but no one goes in to the operating theatre for 'pretend surgery'.

[LostDoggy]

Hasn't he been carrying injuries for us throughout the past few years?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Hasn't he been carrying injuries for us throughout the past few years?

Yes, most players do. Doesn't mean he can carry ANY injury. People can't play through knee reconstructions for example.
Sometimes the injuries win the battle no matter how hard the brain wants to ignore them.

[LostDoggy]

Hasn't he been carrying injuries for us throughout the past few years?

There is a difference between carrying an injury and having Captain BadLuck kick you in the doubles , imagine the swearing after he got poked in the eye and had a cut on his retina , after that he gets a calf strain and as he is recovering from that his knee swells up , has a scan and its season over, that about 5 weeks of having an icepack on your jolly twins as Captain BadLuck gets RSI from the Nads Punting

.

[bornadog]

Why?


That would be a step backwards IMO.

If there are 8 players injured maybe we need Mitch. We can't go into the West Coast game with a team of 10 players with less than 10 games, even the Suns don't have that now.

[chef]

If there are 8 players injured maybe we need Mitch. We can't go into the West Coast game with a team of 10 players with less than 10 games, even the Suns don't have that now.

I would rather give Mulligan another game than play Hahn as a KP.

[Ghost Dog]

I would rather give Mulligan another game than play Hahn as a KP.

Heck, play both.

[divvydan]

I'm not even sure we can move Lake onto the LTI list this late in the season.

[1eyedog]

I'm not even sure we can move Lake onto the LTI list this late in the season.

Is there not a cut off date which is inline with the cut off date for elevating rookies to the senior list?

[LostDoggy]

Just read on twitter that Higgins may miss the rest of the year with a Knee injury

[w3design]

Just read on twitter that Higgins may miss the rest of the year with a Knee injury
:eek::eek::eek:

A reliable source? OMG that guy is jinxed!

[LostDoggy]

:eek::eek::eek:

A reliable source? OMG that guy is jinxed!

Sports news first

http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2011/07/26/lake-injury-like-an-acl-says-eade/

[LostDoggy]

Sports news first

http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2011/07/26/lake-injury-like-an-acl-says-eade/

Shut the front door !!!! , Holy Flaming Lascivious Left-Handed Latvian Librarians Bat Man

All right , own up , who the hell broke the mirror

.

[BulldogBelle]

They say that bad luck comes in threes.... I reckon we've got three lots of three this season West Dog!
Someone at the club walked under a ladder whilst carrying a mirror, spotted a black cat and tripped over when he noticed the irony of the situation.... and all on the 13th of a month!!

Seriously though, these outs open the door yet again for some of our kids and more importantly forces our coaching staff to think about fast tracking youth and playing around with tactics/game plans to suit the future personnel.

The benefit of this is we will learn some things about some of our kids in the next few weeks that give us a jump on our planning for next year

[Dry Rot]

Shut the front door !!!! , Holy Flaming Lascivious Left-Handed Latvian Librarians Bat Man

All right , own up , who the hell broke the mirror

.

Who* parked the Tardis at WO, and then sent it back to 2007?

[divvydan]

Is there not a cut off date which is inline with the cut off date for elevating rookies to the senior list?

There is and this was my concern. It's listed as being the Thursday before Rd 18 but that's assuming a 22 round season. What I'm not sure about is if it's been moved back 2 rounds because it's a 24 rd season or if it stands at Rd 18. Given that the midyear point to upgrade a rookie for free stayed the same this season, I have to suspect that the deadline for upgrading rookies has passed and we won't be able to do so anymore.

[Dry Rot]

There is and this was my concern. It's listed as being the Thursday before Rd 18 but that's assuming a 22 round season. What I'm not sure about is if it's been moved back 2 rounds because it's a 24 rd season or if it stands at Rd 18. Given that the midyear point to upgrade a rookie for free stayed the same this season, I have to suspect that the deadline for upgrading rookies has passed and we won't be able to do so anymore.

Bugger. I wanted Panos to have a run.

[Mofra]

Should we ice all our stars, start pre-season early and get a jump on last season's finalists?
West Coast put the cue in the rack early last year too IIRC

[bornadog]

Should we ice all our stars, start pre-season early and get a jump on last season's finalists?
West Coast put the cue in the rack early last year too IIRC

Can't see the point when mathematically we can still make finals. I know its an outside chance but no team is going to give up now when there is still a slim chance.

[LostDoggy]

My opinion is that he'll never get back to AA form and we should cut our losses.

Do you think the same way about Cooney? He'll never be what he was due to his injury. There is another big contract?

[G-Mo77]

Do you think the same way about Cooney? He'll never be what he was due to his injury. There is another big contract?

Well maybe, it's something that has crossed my mind a few times while reading about his knee issues.

Coons is a lot younger than Lake and I think if we can manage him a bit better he can produce some very good football. Less time in the middle and more time as a forward would be a good way to lessen the load.

[chef]

Well maybe, it's something that has crossed my mind a few times while reading about his knee issues.

Coons is a lot younger than Lake and I think if we can manage him a bit better he can produce some very good football. Less time in the middle and more time as a forward would be a good way to lessen the load.

Screw the loyalty, hey?

[always right]

Tough times ahead I fear. Perhaps our two best players with doubtful futures and our best forward retiring.

This will test the club and the patience of supporters. Expect to see a substantial drop off in social club membership revenue next year.

All clubs need hope. I don't have a lot right now. Sorry for the downer.

[G-Mo77]

Screw the loyalty, hey?

What do you mean? A question was asked I answered it.

Because I've thought about moving Cooney on I'm saying screw loyalty? I'd love Cooney to finish his career as a Bulldog.

[chef]

What do you mean? A question was asked I answered it.

Because I've thought about moving Cooney on I'm saying screw loyalty? I'd love Cooney to finish his career as a Bulldog.

Fair enough, I thought you meant trade Lake off because he's had an injury interrupted year.

[G-Mo77]

Fair enough, I thought you meant trade Lake off because he's had an injury interrupted year.

Well now that you mention it I would shop Lake. ;)

[chef]

Well now that you mention it I would shop Lake. ;)

Don't like it. IMO If we expect some loyalty from a guy in Ward's position then we need to give to a guy in Lake's position too. Things like this can destroy the fabric/culture of a club.

[G-Mo77]

Don't like it. IMO If we expect some loyalty from a guy in Ward's position then we need to give to a guy in Lake's position too. Things like this can destroy the fabric/culture of a club.

Ward's fate could be decided because of Lake's contract.

What is Hudson says he wants to go another year, would you sign him?

Mitch Hahn wants to stay on the rookie list another year, would you keep him?

Loyalty can only be stretched so far before hard decisions have to be made.

[chef]

Ward's fate could be decided because of Lake's contract.

What is Hudson says he wants to go another year, would you sign him?

Mitch Hahn wants to stay on the rookie list another year, would you keep him?

Loyalty can only be stretched so far before hard decisions have to be made.

Fair bit of difference between throwing a guy away because he's had an injury interrupted year and tapping someone on the shoulder at the end of their career IMO. If Lake wants to stay there is no way the club would try to move him on.

[Go_Dogs]

Fair bit of difference between throwing a guy away because he's had an injury interrupted year and tapping someone on the shoulder at the end of their career IMO. If Lake wants to stay there is no way the club would try to move him on.

I tend to agree. Lake had no impact this year, but he's been one of, if not our best/most important player over the previous few years. I'd be confident he can get his body right (eventually - I hope) and play some good footy next year.

The medical reports and his fitness results obviously showed the club he was ready or not far off, otherwise why would we have played him? Hopefully he can get the confidence back that his body can still do what he wants it to.

Everyone should go back and watch the last couple of finals from 2010 and see what he did playing with a stuffed body.

[BulldogBelle]

Don't like it. IMO If we expect some loyalty from a guy in Ward's position then we need to give to a guy in Lake's position too. Things like this can destroy the fabric/culture of a club.


Here are a couple of reasons why I think we should look at trading him


-Lake is almost 30. His best football may be already past him
-Lake is a recent All Australian- if we trade him now we can capitalise on this currency
-Lake's contract negotiation techniques were less than impressive
-Lake doesnt have a ability to play with niggles. Post 30 is is going to be full of niggles. Does that mean he will only play half of the season? Or only at 100% fitness?
-Lake should have had surgery in the off season and focused on his rehab rather than taking holidays - I remember reading that Nathan Buckley used to train on Christmas day, because he knew no one else would be training, to give him the edge. Do you think Bwian does that?
-Lake's disagreement with Eagleton last season 'I wont play if he's in the team' - do we need that sort of crap?
-Lake isnt in the leadership group. Trading a Vice Captain or a future captain is a much more drastic move than trading a player outside of the leadership group

[Go_Dogs]

Here are a couple of reasons why I think we should look at trading him


-Lake is almost 30. His best football may be already past him
-Lake is a recent All Australian- if we trade him now we can capitalise on this currency
-Lake's contract negotiation techniques were less than impressive
-Lake doesnt have a ability to play with niggles. Post 30 is is going to be full of niggles. Does that mean he will only play half of the season? Or only at 100% fitness?
-Lake should have had surgery in the off season and focused on his rehab rather than taking holidays - I remember reading that Nathan Buckley used to train on Christmas day, because he knew no one else would be training, to give him the edge. Do you think Bwian does that?
-Lake's disagreement with Eagleton last season 'I wont play if he's in the team' - do we need that sort of crap?
-Lake isnt in the leadership group. Trading a Vice Captain or a future captain is a much more drastic move than trading a player outside of the leadership group

1. Not convinced. Each year had been better than the last. He will fade (body wise) but he understands and plays the role better every year.
2. True, but wouldn't we want a dual AA of 2009 and 2010 as our starting key defender in 2012?
3. His, or his manager?
4. Disagree - has played with niggles.
5. There has been some speculation about his dedication, at the end of the day only Brian would really know if he worked hard enough and did all that he could. Our management of his (from a complete outside perspective) hasn't been as good as it should have.
6. Again, speculation. From most reports he seems to be liked by the playing group - Cooney sticking up for him etc.
7. Not sure the fact he isn't captain has much to do with it. He's a senior player, and an important one.


Trading is the devil's work

[GVGjr]

-Lake is almost 30. His best football may be already past him
-Lake is a recent All Australian- if we trade him now we can capitalise on this currency


Just a couple of points:

- We knew he would 30 when we last contracted him and that it would occur about half way through his deal so why is it an issue now?
- His currency was at an all time high when we last contracted him and that is why we extended ourselves and made him a very highly paid player. AA players can command extra.

Other than his injuries what has actually changed that we didn't previously know?

[Topdog]

-Lake should have had surgery in the off season and focused on his rehab rather than taking holidays - I remember reading that Nathan Buckley used to train on Christmas day, because he knew no one else would be training, to give him the edge. Do you think Bwian does that?
-Lake's disagreement with Eagleton last season 'I wont play if he's in the team' - do we need that sort of crap?

Stop listening to Aker. He had 3 separate operations in the off season.

Again stop listening to crap. He and Eagleton played a lot last season.

[LostDoggy]

Certain injuries and operations can take in excess of a year to get the body right again and to get the confidence back in the body. If he wants to stay, we should retain him.
And I reckon he comes back as full forward.

[LostDoggy]

Certain injuries and operations can take in excess of a year to get the body right again and to get the confidence back in the body. If he wants to stay, we should retain him.
And I reckon he comes back as full forward.

You might be on to something there , with Hall pulling the pin and with Williams and Markovic playing well it could be that we use Bwian as a FF rotation , Bwian might not be quick on the lead but his contested marking makes up for that , if he can get us 2 or 3 goals a game and switch between FF and FB with Williams who switches between HB and HF , when Bwian goes back to FB Markovic moves up to HB, that rotation would make it hard for some teams to match up on

.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Here are a couple of reasons why I think we should look at trading him


-Lake is almost 30. His best football may be already past him
-Lake is a recent All Australian- if we trade him now we can capitalise on this currency
-Lake's contract negotiation techniques were less than impressive
-Lake doesnt have a ability to play with niggles. Post 30 is is going to be full of niggles. Does that mean he will only play half of the season? Or only at 100% fitness?
-Lake should have had surgery in the off season and focused on his rehab rather than taking holidays - I remember reading that Nathan Buckley used to train on Christmas day, because he knew no one else would be training, to give him the edge. Do you think Bwian does that?
-Lake's disagreement with Eagleton last season 'I wont play if he's in the team' - do we need that sort of crap?
-Lake isnt in the leadership group. Trading a Vice Captain or a future captain is a much more drastic move than trading a player outside of the leadership group

The reasons we shouldn't trade him:

Loyalty

[1eyedog]

The reasons we shouldn't trade him:

Loyalty

This is all because of Super Coach, damn you SC you've destroyed the fabric of the game.
'Players lose their currency' and 'cash in on a player', all terms that point to a player being represented by a $ sign rather than as a Bulldog player.

Conversely, the game turned on its head for me when KT went to Melbourne. So, one question is, do we keep established players (100+ games) on our list for the rest of their careers simply because they are Bulldog players (i.e. loyalty)?

My question to you SS and it can be answered with a simple yes or no, are there any established players (100+ games; not including Sherman), that you would consider moving on at the end of this season for the greater good of the club? Or is move on and good of the club an oxymoron?

[bornadog]

This is all because of Super Coach, damn you SC you've destroyed the fabric of the game.
'Players lose their currency' and 'cash in on a player', all terms that point to a player being represented by a $ sign rather than as a Bulldog player.

Conversely, the game turned on its head for me when KT went to Melbourne. So, one question is, do we keep established players (100+ games) on our list for the rest of their careers simply because they are Bulldog players (i.e. loyalty)?

My question to you SS and it can be answered with a simple yes or no, are there any established players (100+ games; not including Sherman), that you would consider moving on at the end of this season for the greater good of the club? Or is move on and good of the club an oxymoron?

Lake is an AA fullback that we contracted for another two years, full stop end of story. He will be back next year fitter and better than ever.

[LostDoggy]

Hope the next op goes well Brian and you are able to get back on to the park for the Bulldogs next year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's amazing how quick some people are to 'jump off' the bandwagon. 12 months ago, everybody was talking about Brian being clearly our best player. He was dominating every forward in the game, and going forward to kick goals.

Christ.

If Brian is 'tradeable', you can add quite a few others to the list.

[G-Mo77]

Fair bit of difference between throwing a guy away because he's had an injury interrupted year and tapping someone on the shoulder at the end of their career IMO. If Lake wants to stay there is no way the club would try to move him on.

OK there is a difference but if Lake stays his contract may push someone out the door. It's the point I was trying to make, I realised I had to get to work when I was typing that so it was a little rushed. My biggest fear is having a 2011 Brian Lake for 2 more years and not being able to afford the current crops coming through. That would be devastating for the club.


If Lake wants to stay there is no way the club would try to move him on

Well that is were it will end. Lake's contracted for another 2 years and if he wants to see that contract out he'll be here for 2 more seasons.


Lake is an AA fullback that we contracted for another two years, full stop end of story. He will be back next year fitter and better than ever.

That's it then, end of discussion. :rolleyes:

[immortalmike]

OK there is a difference but if Lake stays his contract may push someone out the door. It's the point I was trying to make, I realised I had to get to work when I was typing that so it was a little rushed. My biggest fear is having a 2011 Brian Lake for 2 more years and not being able to afford the current crops coming through. That would be devastating for the club.

He turns 30 next year so he'll probably be put on the veterans list.

Also the converse of what you wrote can also be true, i.e., what if 09-10 Brian is playing for Carlton and Ward, Roughead or Wood stagnate and become servicable players (rather than stars) at the Dogs. Both scenarios seem equally likely to me.

[the banker]

This is all down to Brian. He is an awesome footballer down back. If he wants to play and play with us I am sure we will get at least 2 great years from him.

If he wants out then we should trade - there is no place for a disgruntled key player.

[chef]

The reasons we shouldn't trade him:

Loyalty

This x 10000

Lake is a great of our club.

[chef]

Lake is an AA fullback that we contracted for another two years, full stop end of story. He will be back next year fitter and better than ever.

And this.

[chef]

OK there is a difference but if Lake stays his contract may push someone out the door. It's the point I was trying to make, I realised I had to get to work when I was typing that so it was a little rushed. My biggest fear is having a 2011 Brian Lake for 2 more years and not being able to afford the current crops coming through. That would be devastating for the club

Fair enough mate, that is always a worry for every club offering someone a long term contract.

[Mantis]

Lake is an AA fullback that we contracted for another two years, full stop end of story. He will be back next year fitter and better than ever.

Why?... Because you say so?

Brian is going to have to work his absolute butt off to get back to near anywhere his best... I hope he is up for the challenge.

[bornadog]

Why?... Because you say so?

Brian is going to have to work his absolute butt off to get back to near anywhere his best... I hope he is up for the challenge.

We are all disappointed with the situation with Lake, whether his problems have been just physical, mental or both, they are still a problem. The Coach the fitness people, the medicos all know this and they have to work with him to get it right.

Yes he is going to have to work his butt off. Do you think he got to AA fullback by just fronting up and doing nothing.

[Desipura]

Effectively he will be 12 months out of the game, it is no guarantee that he will be the same player.

[Sockeye Salmon]

My question to you SS and it can be answered with a simple yes or no, are there any established players (100+ games; not including Sherman), that you would consider moving on at the end of this season for the greater good of the club? Or is move on and good of the club an oxymoron?

As a trade? No.


I would have a whisper in Ben Hudson's ear and say, "sorry Big Guy, I reckon you're done" and move him on. That happens, it's the nature of sport. If his manager finds someone else who'll give him a another go, trade him for free to wherever he wants to go and say thank you for your efforts.

(Hypothetically) Tell Lindsay Gilbee he isn't in our best 22 for next year and we would help him get somewhere else if he prefers; but also make sure he knows he is welcome to stay and fight for his spot.


Trade in
- kids who haven't had a decent shot at their club (just a pseudo draft pick anyway)
- Take advantage of another clubs disgruntled player (Hudson, Hall, Akermanis) if they come cheap and fill a need

Trade out
- those who are unlikely to have a future at the club and do so cheap



Trading players Supercoach style to try and grab someone better is a sure way to destroy the fabric of the club and to lose any leverage when your better players are offered more cash elsewhere.

How could you possibly ask Cal Ward to stay at the club out of loyalty when at the same time you're shipping off Brian Lake to the highest bidder?


Trading is the work of the devil.

[LostDoggy]

As a trade? No.


I would have a whisper in Ben Hudson's ear and say, "sorry Big Guy, I reckon you're done" and move him on. That happens, it's the nature of sport. If his manager finds someone else who'll give him a another go, trade him for free to wherever he wants to go and say thank you for your efforts.

(Hypothetically) Tell Lindsay Gilbee he isn't in our best 22 for next year and we would help him get somewhere else if he prefers; but also make sure he knows he is welcome to stay and fight for his spot.


Trade in
- kids who haven't had a decent shot at their club (just a pseudo draft pick anyway)
- Take advantage of another clubs disgruntled player (Hudson, Hall, Akermanis) if they come cheap and fill a need

Trade out
- those who are unlikely to have a future at the club and do so cheap



Trading players Supercoach style to try and grab someone better is a sure way to destroy the fabric of the club and to lose any leverage when your better players are offered more cash elsewhere.

How could you possibly ask Cal Ward to stay at the club out of loyalty when at the same time you're shipping off Brian Lake to the highest bidder?


Trading is the work of the devil.

What about trading picks away?

[Mantis]

We are all disappointed with the situation with Lake, whether his problems have been just physical, mental or both, they are still a problem. The Coach the fitness people, the medicos all know this and they have to work with him to get it right.

Yes he is going to have to work his butt off. Do you think he got to AA fullback by just fronting up and doing nothing.

I do think it's much harder working your butt off as a 30yo compared to a 25 yo.

I guess time will tell, but I have my doubts to ever seeing Brian as the dominant key defender he so recently was.

[Mofra]

How could you possibly ask Cal Ward to stay at the club out of loyalty when at the same time you're shipping off Brian Lake to the highest bidder?

Trading is the work of the devil.
Agree, and adding the spectre of free agency in soon strengthens this argument.

[G-Mo77]

Agree, and adding the spectre of free agency in soon strengthens this argument.

Players are going to come and go when FA comes in, there is going to be no loyalty what so ever. That's the sad part about our game it will eventually become Americanised and player turn over will be huge. Right now players are more inclined to stay because they are very restricted with their movements, give them a green light and loyalty will be thrown out the window by most.

[bornadog]

Players are going to come and go when FA comes in, there is going to be no loyalty what so ever. That's the sad part about our game it will eventually become Americanised and player turn over will be huge. Right now players are more inclined to stay because they are very restricted with their movements, give them a green light and loyalty will be thrown out the window by most.

Not necessarily , don't under estimate the power of mateship/team and being together, working environment, coaches and staff in general and being looked after by the club.

The guys that will leave under FA will be no different than the disgruntled players now, or the ones that feel they are not getting the opportunities that they can get else where. Also, being a national competition there is the homesickness factor. Its not always about money.

[1eyedog]

Not necessarily , don't under estimate the power of mateship/team and being together, working environment, coaches and staff in general and being looked after by the club.

The guys that will leave under FA will be no different than the disgruntled players now, or the ones that feel they are not getting the opportunities that they can get else where. Also, being a national competition there is the homesickness factor. Its not always about money.

It's unrealistic to think that when FA comes in the AFL will be any different to the NRL or the EPL or the IPL for that matter. You don't think there is any matership in any other football clubs at the global scale? That's not a seller anymore IMO. Furthermore, when big money is involved players are prepared to move around the world to play football. I'm not too sure how working enviroment differs from any other workplace situation but one thing I am afraid of is the lure of the $ directly impacting the quality of players we retain when pitted against the AFL power clubs.

I just cannot for the life of me see it unfolding the way you have described BD. I hope you are right.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What about trading picks away?


I have no problems trading draft picks but it is starting to get into dangerous ground.

The draft is where you get seriously good footballers (it is also a place to get seriously bad footballers BTW); a trade is where you might get an honest goer for a while (and may occasionally win Tattslotto).

Would you trade our 1st round pick for Daniel Talia? I would.

[LostDoggy]

Akers has just tweeted that he has spoken to someone at west coast who has told him that negotiations between Lake and WCE are already under way. Make of that what you will...

[Desipura]

Akers has just tweeted that he has spoken to someone at west coast who has told him that negotiations between Lake and WCE are already under way. Make of that what you will...

Ok, we will take Mitch Brown off em.

[1eyedog]

I have no problems trading draft picks but it is starting to get into dangerous ground.

The draft is where you get seriously good footballers (it is also a place to get seriously bad footballers BTW); a trade is where you might get an honest goer for a while (and may occasionally win Tattslotto).

Would you trade our 1st round pick for Daniel Talia? I would.

I'm not convinced about his ball use by foot or his decision making process. He's big, has big wraps and and what we are looking for. initially touted as a top 6 and slid down to 15 or 16 I think. I think there's a reason for that and it comes down to his iffy efficiency by foot.

[1eyedog]

Akers has just tweeted that he has spoken to someone at west coast who has told him that negotiations between Lake and WCE are already under way. Make of that what you will...

I cannot see Lake playing CHB for them nor can I see him uprooting Glass from FB. With kennedy and Lynch at FF what is his role?

I don't believe it sorry.

[G-Mo77]

Akers has just tweeted that he has spoken to someone at west coast who has told him that negotiations between Lake and WCE are already under way. Make of that what you will...

I find it hard to believe. I don't think WCE need him and would have to give up a bit to get him over there also Lake would have to agree to go over to WA.

That being said we've got a good rapport with the Eagles in terms of trading so I'd be happier negotiating with them rather than someone like Carlton.

[1eyedog]

As a trade? No.


I would have a whisper in Ben Hudson's ear and say, "sorry Big Guy, I reckon you're done" and move him on. That happens, it's the nature of sport. If his manager finds someone else who'll give him a another go, trade him for free to wherever he wants to go and say thank you for your efforts.

(Hypothetically) Tell Lindsay Gilbee he isn't in our best 22 for next year and we would help him get somewhere else if he prefers; but also make sure he knows he is welcome to stay and fight for his spot.


Trade in
- kids who haven't had a decent shot at their club (just a pseudo draft pick anyway)
- Take advantage of another clubs disgruntled player (Hudson, Hall, Akermanis) if they come cheap and fill a need

Trade out
- those who are unlikely to have a future at the club and do so cheap



Trading players Supercoach style to try and grab someone better is a sure way to destroy the fabric of the club and to lose any leverage when your better players are offered more cash elsewhere.

How could you possibly ask Cal Ward to stay at the club out of loyalty when at the same time you're shipping off Brian Lake to the highest bidder?


Trading is the work of the devil.

Well put, the problem is we have seen players like Ball (ex co-captain) and Bruce (veteran) hit the high road when their clubs haven't come to the party, where's the loyalty there? I don't think it's necessarily the club's responsibility to exclusively look after their players and give them exactly what they are asking for.


One difference is we have a salary cap which means money wise clubs will be restricted in what they offer.

When the AFLPA wins the fight for a significant player wage increase watch the cap rise and watch division between the financial haves and have nots widen.

[G-Mo77]

When the AFLPA wins the fight for a significant player wage increase watch the cap rise and watch division between the financial haves and have nots increase.

This.

It's going to be tough times for us.

[Desipura]

Lyon did not rate Ball as he thought he could not keep up with the modern game. Then he tried to pick up a Judd for him.
Its is not true to say Ball was not loyal.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I do think it's much harder working your butt off as a 30yo compared to a 25 yo.

I guess time will tell, but I have my doubts to ever seeing Brian as the dominant key defender he so recently was.

It is tougher for a 30yo but given his exceptional form the previous two years providing Lake's mind is right he is still capable of being one of our very best key defenders. Matthew Lloyd rates Lake and Scarlett as his two toughest opponents. High praise indeed1
Lake in form is our most dominant key player and best high mark in the team. These type of players are a rare breed.Hopefully the year off might have refreshed him.

[LostDoggy]

What was said about Lake on the footy show tonight?

[aker39]

What was said about Lake on the footy show tonight?

That he's not happy the club didn't listen to him 6 weeks ago when he wanted to pull the pin on the season.

Barrett still thinks he will not be at the club next year.

[chef]

That he's not happy the club didn't listen to him 6 weeks ago when he wanted to pull the pin on the season.

Barrett still thinks he will not be at the club next year.

Robinson on 360 said he will be there, as did Hutchy on FC. None of them have any idea.

Lake is also not happy with what Eade and Monty said about him not being mentally strong enough to deal with the injury.

It might all come down to who is coaching the Dogs next year.

[Mantis]

That he's not happy the club didn't listen to him 6 weeks ago when he wanted to pull the pin on the season.



But what if the medico's at this time were telling him the knee was sound?

[aker39]

But what if the medico's at this time were telling him the knee was sound?

What's happened in the last 6 weeks for it now to need surgery

[Mantis]

What's happened in the last 6 weeks for it now to need surgery

No idea, but I doubt very much that we would have tried to make Brian push on if it was thought (or known) the problem was as severe as it's been diagnosed now.

[LostDoggy]

It's unrealistic to think that when FA comes in the AFL will be any different to the NRL or the EPL or the IPL for that matter. You don't think there is any matership in any other football clubs at the global scale? That's not a seller anymore IMO. Furthermore, when big money is involved players are prepared to move around the world to play football. I'm not too sure how working enviroment differs from any other workplace situation but one thing I am afraid of is the lure of the $ directly impacting the quality of players we retain when pitted against the AFL power clubs.

I just cannot for the life of me see it unfolding the way you have described BD. I hope you are right.

I've turned down higher-paying jobs because my boss is more a good mate than a boss and has looked after me for many years.

It does happen.

[Desipura]

I've turned down higher-paying jobs because my boss is more a good mate than a boss and has looked after me for many years.

It does happen.
I doubt you would turn down being paid double your current salary with the security of a 5 year contract vs a 3 year contract.

[bornadog]

I doubt you would turn down being paid double your current salary with the security of a 5 year contract vs a 3 year contract.

Desi, depends on the job and where I had to live for 5 years.

[Desipura]

Desi, depends on the job and where I had to live for 5 years.

Oh yeh, forgot to mention where the weather is warmer as well (even if they do get alot of rain).

[Scraggers]

Eagles deny Lake link

WEST Coast has dismissed claims it is keen to secure Western Bulldogs key backman Brian Lake for next year.

There has been speculation the out-of-favour defender may be open to a move after a frustrating and injury-riddled year at Whitten Oval, despite being under contract for 2012.

Former Dog Jason Akermanis yesterday fuelled the Lake trade rumours, linking the All-Australian with the Eagles.

“Interesting that I just spoke to a man inside the West Coast Eagles and they said they have already started negotiations with Brian Lake,” Akermanis tweeted.

However, West Coast list manager Craig Vozzo last night told the Herald Sun there were no plans to negotiate a deal for the 177-gamer.

Vozzo said the club was happy with its current defensive stocks, having re-signed young stoppers Will Schofield, Mitch Brown and Eric Mackenzie in recent months.

The Bulldogs have publicly denied they want to trade Lake, who has two years to run on his current deal.

But it is thought a decent trade offering, including a first-round draft pick, may capture the Dogs' attention.

Link (http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/eagles-deny-lake-link/story-e6frg1xu-1226104117294)

[Axe Man]

That he's not happy the club didn't listen to him 6 weeks ago when he wanted to pull the pin on the season.

Barrett still thinks he will not be at the club next year.

That's not quite what I understood from what Barrett said. Apparently Lake wanted to take time out of footy to do a 'mini pre-season' with the aim of coming back into the team later in the season. The club instead insisted that he play for Williamstown. He is supposedly upset that the club didn't listen to him about his knee and made him play.

I'm not sure what else the club should have done, they have to listen to the medical staff over what the player says otherwise we would have the reverse situation of unfit players saying they are fine to play every week. There is no guarantee that if they had gone with Brian's plan that he would be fit and playing now anyway.

Another 'revelation' from Barrett was to say that the club would listen to offers for Lake. I'm sure they would listen to offers for pretty much every player.

[G-Mo77]

Because it came from Barrett I think there is nothing to worry about. Sounds like he couldn't come up with a juicy enough story for his pathetic little 5 minutes on TFS and rehashed something he thought up a while ago.

[Ghost Dog]

When the season is done, and all Akermanis's rumours turn out to be false, he's going to look more foolish than he does now.
Not sure that's actually possible, but there you have it.

[A dogs life]

Tough times ahead I fear. Perhaps our two best players with doubtful futures and our best forward retiring.

This will test the club and the patience of supporters. Expect to see a substantial drop off in social club membership revenue next year.

All clubs need hope. I don't have a lot right now. Sorry for the downer.

Your depressing me:(

[1eyedog]

No idea, but I doubt very much that we would have tried to make Brian push on if it was thought (or known) the problem was as severe as it's been diagnosed now.

Exactly. Clubs almost always use the cautious approach to injuries.

[Maddog37]

Just hope that if any Dog fans see Brian tomorrow that they give him a pat on the back and let him know how much we want him back to his best in the red white and blue.

[LostDoggy]

IIIRC in 2008 Brian was coming back from an injury (knee or back I think) and had issues with the medical staff (Falloon at the time) as they thought he should handle his rehab one way and he thought that it should be another. Does anyone else remember this??

IN the end he won out and was allowed to rehab in his own way, he managed to come back in good touch and good form, he built on his 07 form and was good in 08, better in 09 and better again last year.

Even last year Peter Dean indicated that Lake was never one of those guys who were especially hard trainers and I think that Lake feels that that he knows how to get the best out of himself, based on his last two years maybe he is right.

This year I get the feeling the club felt the need to set an example to show that no players were above the law, and demanded that Lake follow their directions like they would with any other player. It may not have helped that Lake was woefully out of form when he returned and that the team was not playing well. I feel like what the club did with Lake was similar to the example set with Aker last year, the message being noone is above the club.

With the value of some hindsight how do people view this?? We cut Aker loose last year and many, myself included, have accepted that as largely Aker's fault and in the long terms a good thing for the club. If the same thing happens with Lake do we still view this as a good trade off, a talented player sacrificed for a better culture? Or do we start to question what cost we put on a culture and whose judgement is detemining that cost?

I hope that Lake swallows his pride and not only stays but works hard to get back to his best. I also hope that the club provides him supprt to do these things and encouragement that he is still a respected and valued player. I hope that whatever club behaviours were demanded are met.

I hope these things becasue he is my favorite player to watch and I would hate to see him lost to the game or worse to to a rival club. However if the worst happens and he leaves then I have to have faith that the club has done this knowingly, having balanced the risk and that the reward is worth the cost.

[Ghost Dog]

IIIRC in 2008 Brian was coming back from an injury (knee or back I think) and had issues with the medical staff (Falloon at the time) as they thought he should handle his rehab one way and he thought that it should be another. Does anyone else remember this??

IN the end he won out and was allowed to rehab in his own way, he managed to come back in good touch and good form, he built on his 07 form and was good in 08, better in 09 and better again last year.

Even last year Peter Dean indicated that Lake was never one of those guys who were especially hard trainers and I think that Lake feels that that he knows how to get the best out of himself, based on his last two years maybe he is right.

This year I get the feeling the club felt the need to set an example to show that no players were above the law, and demanded that Lake follow their directions like they would with any other player. It may not have helped that Lake was woefully out of form when he returned and that the team was not playing well. I feel like what the club did with Lake was similar to the example set with Aker last year, the message being noone is above the club.

With the value of some hindsight how do people view this?? We cut Aker loose last year and many, myself included, have accepted that as largely Aker's fault and in the long terms a good thing for the club. If the same thing happens with Lake do we still view this as a good trade off, a talented player sacrificed for a better culture? Or do we start to question what cost we put on a culture and whose judgement is detemining that cost?

I hope that Lake swallows his pride and not only stays but works hard to get back to his best. I also hope that the club provides him supprt to do these things and encouragement that he is still a respected and valued player. I hope that whatever club behaviours were demanded are met.

I hope these things becasue he is my favorite player to watch and I would hate to see him lost to the game or worse to to a rival club. However if the worst happens and he leaves then I have to have faith that the club has done this knowingly, having balanced the risk and that the reward is worth the cost.

Now that's a good post. IMO a club that cannot tolerate a maverick and know how to handle them will struggle. then again, you can let things slide when form is good, but when it's not, the hammer has to come down.

A reporter to Allen Jeans
Q: So why don't you make John Platten cut his hair?
A: Well I would if he couldn't play.

[Stefcep]

His knees will heal.

His mental state is a different proposition.

Personally I haven't seen any action from him or a statement from the club to suggest Lake is mentally 100% committed to 1. playing AFL to the best of his ability and 2. more importantly, playing for us.

I'd trade him and free up $500k per year that would give us a lots of choices. It will be good for him and good for us. And no regrets if he gets to AA form elsewhere, beacsue i don't think he ever will for US.