GWS, Bulldogs battle for Ward

[bornadog]

Jake Niall (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/gws-bulldogs-battle-for-ward-20110728-1i2b3.html)

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/463470-callan-ward.jpg

THE Western Bulldogs have upped the ante in their contract offer to midfielder Callan Ward, but the revised offer of $400,000-$450,000 a season for three years is still a fraction of what he can earn if he joins Greater Western Sydney.
The Bulldogs recently increased their offer to between $400,000 and $450,000 a season, meaning he would earn close to $1.3 million over the term of the three-year contract.
While this would make him among the top-four highest paid players at the Bulldogs, it remains far below what he would get from GWS, which is understood to have dangled a five-year offer worth at least $4 million.

Over the three years, the GWS offer would be about double the Bulldogs' contract, and the Giants are also offering an additional two years. GWS, however, can be expected to ''frontload'' the contract - a necessity for a club that will have such a young and talented list - meaning that, like Gary Ablett at Gold Coast, Ward would be paid more heavily in his first two seasons.
After Melbourne's Tom Scully, Ward has emerged as one of the key targets of GWS, which met with Ward earlier this season and made a strong pitch for the 21-year-old, who has shouldered a greater burden this year while the club's premier midfielder Adam Cooney has been injured.

The speculation surrounding Ward's future has not affected his form; indeed, over the past six weeks, the hard midfielder has produced his best football of the season, having been consistently among the club's best. He had an injury-riddled season in 2010 after emerging as a potential topliner in 2009.
In expressing the hope that the club would retain him, Bulldogs coach Rodney Eade described Ward as the club's answer to Geelong's emerging superstar Joel Selwood.
Adam Cooney is the highest-paid player at the Bulldogs, on an estimated $550,000-$600,000, followed by injured defender Brian Lake, who has another two years to run on the contract he signed at the end of 2009. Ryan Griffen is the other player among the top bracket, just below Lake; Griffen won the best and fairest last year.

While the Bulldogs could not be reached for comment on Ward, yesterday they issued a statement denying Jason Akermanis's suggestion that football operations chief James Fantasia had been involved in talks about the coaching position with Essendon assistant and ex-Adelaide skipper Simon Goodwin. Eade is out of contract at season's end.
''The Western Bulldogs have started an internal process with Rodney Eade and his management,'' the statement said.

''The suggestion that any representative of the Western Bulldogs has met with or held discussions with any other party in relation to the club's coaching position is categorically untrue.'' Eade recently changed managers and is now handled by Barry Hall's manager Phil Mullen.
As an Essendon insider noted yesterday, Goodwin and Fantasia have a strong friendship from their time at the Crows - the latter was a long-time recruiting manager with Adelaide - Goodwin having lived with the Bulldogs' football department head when he first moved to Melbourne, before his family came across.

[bornadog]

Reading this article a couple of things stick out:

* Should we be offering Ward $500,000, would that get him over the line or would that then upset other players like Griffen who may not be on that amount?

* GWS are offering Ward a 5 year contract, compared to our 3. On the one hand 5 years security of income sounds good, but on the other hand, does Ward want to be away from his friends and family for 5 years? In 3 years time, if he is still playing good footy and becomes elite, who is to say we can't pay him $600,000/$700,000 or more.

I guess he has a lot to weigh up.

[LostDoggy]

What I saw stick out was that there is not a skerrick of information we didn't already know. Rubbish article.

[Mantis]

* Should we be offering Ward $500,000, would that get him over the line or would that then upset other players like Griffen who may not be on that amount?

No we shouldn't.

At present he isn't worth $500k (or even $450k for matter) and it will jeopardise our ability to keep other players if we pay over the odds for him.

[LostDoggy]

I guess the point is that it's not news if it's not new.

Funny point in the article, saying that what we can offer will be 'a fraction' of what GWS can. I've always found this figure of speech weird, as every number is a fraction of another. Also, if you're going to use that term, it's usually taken to mean a TINY fraction, not "more than half". Another example of trying to inflate the facts to sensationalise them.

[bornadog]

No we shouldn't.

At present he isn't worth $500k (or even $450k for matter) and it will jeopardise our ability to keep other players if we pay over the odds for him.

If it takes another $50k to keep him, I would pay him.

[Mantis]

If it takes another $50k to keep him, I would pay him.

I believe we should have stuck with our original offer, an offer we would have seen as being fair & reasonable and if that wasn't good enough we let him walk... that's what other clubs do.

We can't allow ourselves to get in a bidding war with a club that has extremely deep pockets.

[LostDoggy]

No offence cause I love Ward and the effort he puts into the jumper. But if the dogs pay him 1.3 million then there wont be a premiership in sight over that period and maybe further.

[Maddog37]

The way Ward is playing now he may well already be our second best player behind Griff (discounting Lake and Cooney due to injury).

He is moving up the Marmo votes with a bullet over the last month or so.

I would sell the farm to keep him.

[bornadog]

The way Ward is playing now he may well already be our second best player behind Griff (discounting Lake and Cooney due to injury).

He is moving up the Marmo votes with a bullet over the last month or so.

I would sell the farm to keep him.

Good midfielders don't grow on trees.

[Desipura]

Good midfielders don't grow on trees.

Yes they do, great ones dont. ;)

[LostDoggy]

Good midfielders don't grow on trees.


Yes they do, great ones dont. ;)

Agree, I would have thought it would be harder to get a solid functioning Defence and then Forward line before a soild midfield? In that order.
Wouldn't an above average defender be harder to find than a good midfielder?

[BulldogBelle]

Agree, I would have thought it would be harder to get a solid functioning Defence and then Forward line before a soild midfield? In that order.
Wouldn't an above average defender be harder to find than a good midfielder?



Your right

I would have thought that GWS would have wanted to recruit a mature and strong defensive players so that they didnt get scored heaviily against

Eg Gold Coast attempted this when they recruited Bock, Krakour, Harbrow etc

[Greystache]

I believe we should have stuck with our original offer, an offer we would have seen as being fair & reasonable and if that wasn't good enough we let him walk... that's what other clubs do.

We can't allow ourselves to get in a bidding war with a club that has extremely deep pockets.

Agree, it sets a bad precedent for future negotiations.


If it takes another $50k to keep him, I would pay him.

Do we take this view for every player in our top 20?

20 x $50k = $1 million or 1 x Lance Franklin

[bornadog]

Do we take this view for every player in our top 20?

20 x $50k = $1 million or 1 x Lance Franklin

No, its a matter of balancing the list.

I for one would be pissed off if I found out we lost Ward for the sake of $50k

[w3design]

Offload Lake keep Ward at the extra 50K increase money saved on Lake plus hopefully 2 good draft picks as compo or one the 17 year old from G.W.S .
Lake has issues with the dogs and we are not going to win flag in the next 2 years .[TIME TO KEEP WARD FUTURE CAPTAIN AND REBUILD]

[Greystache]

No, its a matter of balancing the list.

I for one would be pissed off if I found out we lost Ward for the sake of $50k

And I bet there'd be another 10 players at the club who'd be pissed off that the club would find another $50k for Ward but not for them when they have other clubs throwing offers at them. Where does the line between balancing the list and not alienating 10 senior players sit?

I could live with losing him for a matter of $50k when we're already offering arguably $100k over his true value.

[bornadog]

And I bet there'd be another 10 players at the club who'd be pissed off that the club would find another $50k for Ward but not for them when they have other clubs throwing offers at them. Where does the line between balancing the list and not alienating 10 senior players sit?

I could live with losing him for a matter of $50k when we're already offering arguably $100k over his true value.

But we don't know this, we are just guessing.

[Greystache]

But we don't know this, we are just guessing.

It's a pretty safe assumption.

[chef]

The way Ward is playing now he may well already be our second best player behind Griff (discounting Lake and Cooney due to injury).

He is moving up the Marmo votes with a bullet over the last month or so.

I would sell the farm to keep him.

This and this for me too. We need to keep him.

[LostDoggy]

This and this for me too. We need to keep him.

Lake played his arse off in his contract year too, but we just paid half a million bucks for 5 shithouse games this year. I'm not for inflating player offers based on half a season (heck, six farking games) of performance.. if GWS want to pay over the odds, we'll take the picks and keep building that balanced list without mortgaging our future; long contracts are buyer-beware territory anyway, I would love it if all these multi-year contracts that GWS are throwing away backfire and they have expensive also-rans and not-quite-stars stuck on massive contracts -- just stopped short of wishing injuries on their (future) overpaid mercenaries.

[chef]

Lake played his arse off in his contract year too, but we just paid half a million bucks for 5 shithouse games this year. I'm not for inflating player offers based on half a season (heck, six farking games) of performance.. if GWS want to pay over the odds, we'll take the picks and keep building that balanced list without mortgaging our future; long contracts are buyer-beware territory anyway, I would love it if all these multi-year contracts that GWS are throwing away backfire and they have expensive also-rans and not-quite-stars stuck on massive contracts -- just stopped short of wishing injuries on their (future) overpaid mercenaries.

Fair enough, but I'm of the opinion he will be our second best player next year(behind Griffen) and would be happy for him to be payed accordingly. I don't think he is a flash in the pan and will end up being remembered as one of our better players.

[LostDoggy]

Fair enough, but I'm of the opinion he will be our second best player next year(behind Griffen) and would be happy for him to be payed accordingly. I don't think he is a flash in the pan and will end up being remembered as one of our better players.

We all respect your opinion, and you maybe on the money.
But the Dogs can't pay a player over a $1m going off your opinion.:D

[Topdog]

Fair enough, but I'm of the opinion he will be our second best player next year(behind Griffen) and would be happy for him to be payed accordingly. I don't think he is a flash in the pan and will end up being remembered as one of our better players.

Paying someone on potential is the most irresponsible thing a club can do.

And when we overpay for Ward do we do the same for Wood, then Roughead, then Jones, etc.

[Greystache]

Paying someone on potential is the most irresponsible thing a club can do.

And when we overpay for Ward do we do the same for Wood, then Roughead, then Jones, etc.

And like we did with Higgins.

[chef]

We all respect your opinion, and you maybe on the money.
But the Dogs can't pay a player over a $1m going off your opinion.:D

Who said anything about over a million?

I said he should be payed as our second best player which at a guess would put him in the $450-$500,000 range.

[chef]

Paying someone on potential is the most irresponsible thing a club can do.

And when we overpay for Ward do we do the same for Wood, then Roughead, then Jones, etc.

To me with Ward we are now getting performance over potential anyway.

[LostDoggy]

Who said anything about over a million?

I said he should be payed as our second best player which at a guess would put him in the $450-$500,000 range.

Per year.
So unless he gets a 1 year deal he'll be getting over a million in his next contract.

[LostDoggy]

Chef, I'm with you. I want Ward to stay but we can't get in a bidding war with GWS for someone like him.
By "like him" I mean a soild midfielder who (and I'm setting myself up to get shot down here) can be replaced. Now what I mean by that is his type of role can be covered, there are people like Wally JR, Libba JR, etc etc that are coming through that should slot into the 'bust a gut' mid/utility role that Ward currently plays. Unfortunatly he doesn't hold a 'Key' position eg. #1 ruck, Power Forward, Lock down Defender. The types of positions where it is very very hard to find a good player to fill let alone a superstar.
My concern, like many is if we set a standard with Ward, what is the flow on effect going to be in a few years if someone like Roughead is up for contract and he becomes one of the "key position superstars" where you need the big bucks because these types are few and far between?

[chef]

Chef, I'm with you. I want Ward to stay but we can't get in a bidding war with GWS for someone like him.
By "like him" I mean a soild midfielder who (and I'm setting myself up to get shot down here) can be replaced. Now what I mean by that is his type of role can be covered, there are people like Wally JR, Libba JR, etc etc that are coming through that should slot into the 'bust a gut' mid/utility role that Ward currently plays. Unfortunatly he doesn't hold a 'Key' position eg. #1 ruck, Power Forward, Lock down Defender. The types of positions where it is very very hard to find a good player to fill let alone a superstar.
My concern, like many is if we set a standard with Ward, what is the flow on effect going to be in a few years if someone like Roughead is up for contract and he becomes one of the "key position superstars" where you need the big bucks because these types are few and far between?

We'll have to agree to disagree as I don't see him as this.

[1eyedog]

We'll have to agree to disagree as I don't see him as this.

Me either. He will be a blue chip insider, but more importantly, the way he plays I think he has the capacity to be the inspirational barometer for the team and in that I can see him being an excellent 'on field' captain.

A Lenny Hayes type for mine. I'm just struggling to assess his worth in $.

[chef]

Me either. He will be a blue chip insider, but more importantly, the way he plays I think he has the capacity to be the inspirational barometer for the team and in that I can see him being an excellent 'on field' captain.

A Lenny Hayes type for mine. I'm just struggling to assess his worth in $.

You summed up my thoughts perfectly 1eyedog. He is also a big game performer.

[Maddog37]

Ditto for me. He is our Joel Selwood IMO.

[bold-dogg]

We won't win a premiership if we can't keep our best players. The kid's 21 and he's already a star. We should make every effort to keep him. If we don't it's a huge fail.

[LostDoggy]

Me either. He will be a blue chip insider, but more importantly, the way he plays I think he has the capacity to be the inspirational barometer for the team and in that I can see him being an excellent 'on field' captain.

A Lenny Hayes type for mine. I'm just struggling to assess his worth in $.

He already is a "blue chip insider".

If the Dogs throw the cheque book at him, I hope you are right 1.E.D.

[Remi Moses]

We won't win a premiership if we can't keep our best players. The kid's 21 and he's already a star. We should make every effort to keep him. If we don't it's a huge fail.

Gotta agree. The club aren't paying over the odds,as he has become our second best onballer.if they're silly enough to do what Melbourne are supposedly doing with Scully(600 large a season)then I'd be concerned.

[immortalmike]

He's good but to suggest he's anything higher than our 3rd best mid (this year) is ridiculous. Boyd and Griff well and truly have him covered and Coons when fit (like in the Carlon and Melbourne game) is also better. Hell you could argue that on output Cross is also better. It seems our supporters overrate him as much as GWS. I'll say it again he is very, very good (especially for a 21 y.o) but there are still serious question marks on his kicking and acceleration (he gets caught a lot).

The real questions are:
Is he worth the same (or similar) money as Cooney or Lake post 08 and 09 respectively? And if not will he ever be? Or will he be Matthew Boyd mark II (i.e., a very good player but not an out and out superstar)?

[Remi Moses]

He 's gone past Cross at a million miles an hour ,equal and going past Boyd ( not having a go at Boyd)
He's 21 and has more upside right now than Cooney(injuries hurting)he's behind Griffen IMO

[chef]

He 's gone past Cross at a million miles an hour ,equal and going past Boyd ( not having a go at Boyd)
He's 21 and has more upside right now than Cooney(injuries hurting)he's behind Griffen IMO

Say here. In a couple of seasons we aren't going to have Boyd, Cooney or Cross either.

[1eyedog]

He already is a "blue chip insider".

If the Dogs throw the cheque book at him, I hope you are right 1.E.D.

Okay, depends how you define blue chip. He's not Hayes blue chip. I don't think we should throw the cheque book at him as others have stated that will have implications for the pay cheques for all the other good players on our list. I don't know what the right amount is and I agree that there is certainly some risk of paying overs if he doesn't deliver.

I think there are fairly good signs though.



He 's gone past Cross at a million miles an hour ,equal and going past Boyd ( not having a go at Boyd)
He's 21 and has more upside right now than Cooney(injuries hurting)he's behind Griffen IMO

Purely on current form he's past Boyd IMO, his effectiveness by hand and foot is superior and his percentage of turn overs and kicking to opposition players also considerably less.

[mjp]

The kid's 21 and he's already a star.

A STAR? He is going OK, but if you are averaging 20 possessions and .5 a goal each week, you are not a 'star'. Cooney is ahead of him on both of these numbers and has had a 'terrible' season - playing on one-leg at times and subjected to all kinds of criticism.

Callan in great. I love watching him play - but if signing him means other key pieces have to leave, well - isn't that why we drafted two more inside mids (Wallis + Liberatore) at the end of last year? Or was that all emotion and sentimentallity.

[bold-dogg]

I'm aware that Ward isn't Judd or J. Brown. I'm one of those people that thinks a footballer matures, at AFL level, at the age of 23. Rucks have to wait an extra year. It's silly, but sometimes you just can't beat empirical knowledge. Real stars, like Judd, tear it up as 18 year olds. Ward was better than most 18 year olds going around though. Regardless of his deficiencies, if he's this good at 21, he will be a star, and in my heart that already makes him one. The game about 2 years ago when the Bulldogs coaching-box was mic'd up, we were getting thrashed in the middle. Leon Cameron: "put Cooney in the middle." We lose that hit out too. Cameron: "Take Cooney out. Put Ward in the middle." We win the next two clearances. I thought "the kids a star." I take your point about Libba And Wallis. Lake? Ward? We might end up with D. Tyson in that midfield too.

[LostDoggy]

Once again, lovely sentiments, but the salary cap doesn't have a special allowance for sentiment. If anyone can name one single massive multiyear contract at any club, much less at the dogs, that hasn't had buyer's remorse all over it a couple of years down the track, i'll bite. The salary cap is a reality, not just an easily ignored nuisance.

[Doc26]

Once again, lovely sentiments, but the salary cap doesn't have a special allowance for sentiment. If anyone can name one single massive multiyear contract at any club, much less at the dogs, that hasn't had buyer's remorse all over it a couple of years down the track, i'll bite. The salary cap is a reality, not just an easily ignored nuisance.

I'm sure Carlton supporters would be more than willing to give you one example although to be fair he is an uber premium who continues to work his magic who is also remunerated outside their stinking cap.

[bold-dogg]

I'll zip it on this subject in future, I promise. I'm not sure the keep-Ward posts are about sentiment.
Looking at our list, and considering the salary cap, and the loosening of our purse-strings with the retirement of well-paid senior players over the next 3 years, I can see the big bucks will be required for Ward and Wood and maybe Howard, maybe Cordy, maybe Jones, maybe Liberatore, maybe Wallis. We'll be divvying up 8 million not-maybe dollars anyway.
Obviously there are sums we can't match, but we've got to match it on the field and, I'll say it again, match it as a club. Ultimately it's up to Callan, and this is a rather extraordinary situation, so the outcome is pretty much outside the club's control (as was the case with Harbrow). But good clubs keep their good players, I'm Derryn Hinch, and that's my opinion.

NB. I'm not Derryn Hinch.

[Maddog37]

The longer it goes the worse it looks for us.

[LostDoggy]

The longer it goes the less I care. I want him to stay, of course, but at the end of the day I think if he'd made up his mind to stay by now we'd know. So he's either already gone (in which case he signed last year or at least gave GWS a verbal agreement and it's no use crying about) or he's still undecided.

I'm happy to wait until the end of the year and find out then.