Round #22 Match Committee

[GVGjr]

If you were on the Match Committee who would the likely ins and outs for the round 22 away game against the Port Power next Sunday?

[GVGjr]

Time for Veszpremi to get a promotion?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

If you were on the Match Committee who would the likely ins and outs for the round 22 away game against the Port Power next Sunday?

Apart from Wallis there was very little that you would want to bring in. Cordy was very disappointing as was Mulligan. Veszpremi would be a chance to make his debut. Without Cooney, Lake and now Morris our lack of maturity and class is a major concern. Too much is left to Hall, Boyd,Griffen, Ward and Murphy each week. One redeeming feature tonight was the performance of Djerkura who at last looked like a senior player.

[Rocco Jones]

IN: Barlow, Cordy, Vez
OUT: Hudson, Shaggy, Morris

I think next week is the perfect opportunity to give Roughy a crack in the 1st ruck role. Power's ruck division (whole team?) is no better than the average VFL team. Give him a crack then bring back Will for the last two games if he doesn't do well.

Cordy wasn't great today but what other option do we have? Mulligan looks like a lacrose player.

[Mantis]

IN: Barlow, Cordy, Vez
OUT: Hudson, Shaggy, Morris

I think next week is the perfect opportunity to give Roughy a crack in the 1st ruck role. Power's ruck division (whole team?) is no better than the average VFL team. Give him a crack then bring back Will for the last two games if he doesn't do well.

Cordy wasn't great today but what other option do we have? Mulligan looks like a lacrose player.

Until he can actually play the 2nd role 1/2 well best we tell him to wait his turn.

[LostDoggy]

Surely Cordy has to come in now? Mulligan didn't look up to VFL standard today, if Shaggy isn't fit, then it's a certainty
Would love to see Tutt get a game over DJ, but it's harsh to drop him after today

[Rocco Jones]

Until he can actually play the 2nd role 1/2 well best we tell him to wait his turn.

I see him as a ruckman who goes forward rather than the other way around. I don't think the 2nd ruck role suits him and would like to see him get some momentum in the ruck.

[Mantis]

I see him as a ruckman who goes forward rather than the other way around. I don't think the 2nd ruck role suits him and would like to see him get some momentum in the ruck.

He isn't helping his chances of getting more ruck minutes by getting his pants pulled down when he does get in their.

The kid is still a massive pre-season of being at least competitive inside the centre square.

[Rocco Jones]

He isn't helps his chances of getting more ruck minutes by getting his pants pulled down when he does get in their.

The kid is still a massive pre-season of being at least competitive inside the centre square.

Like Vez, good case scenario is he does well and all that but even with the worst case scenario, he gets a reality check just in time for the pre-season. What is there to lose? We are awful.

[Mantis]

Like Vez, good case scenario is he does well and all that but even with the worst case scenario, he gets a reality check just in time for the pre-season. What is there to lose? We are awful.

Unless the 'fab 4' have spoken to the coach I doubt very much that this is going to happen.

[G-Mo77]

The obvious out is Morris. It was a sad sight seeing him in so much pain.

I think Tutt really deserves a shot after todays game.

[Rocco Jones]

Unless the 'fab 4' have spoken to the coach I doubt very much that this is going to happen.

Who are the 'fab 4'?

[Greystache]

Unless the 'fab 4' have spoken to the coach I doubt very much that this is going to happen.

We have a fab 4? why didn't we get them to take the field this year?

[Mantis]

Who are the 'fab 4'?

Smorgon, Garlick, Fantasia & Pappas.

Unless they give instructions to the coach that we are in experimental mode the changes you ask for will not happen.

[Rocco Jones]

Smorgon, Garlick, Fantasia & Pappas.

Unless they give instructions to the coach that we are in experimental mode the changes you ask for will not happen.

The side's going to perform poorly anyway. Perhaps it wuld actually be smart for Eade's own chances to show he can do what's best for the club before it is demanded of him.

[Mantis]

The side's going to perform poorly anyway. Perhaps it wuld actually be smart for Eade's own chances to show he can do what's best for the club before it is demanded of him.

So let's get beat by more... Ripper. :rolleyes:

We actually kick a couple of the 4 straight behinds we kick at the end of the 3rd and we are well and truly in the game, but alas we miss and they kick a couple and it's game over.

[SlimPickens]

Out: Morris, Hudson, Shaggy

In: Vez, Minson, Barlow

Need to give Will the chance to be no. 1 Ruck, would still persist with Roughy but geez he was disappointing tonight. Vez to be given a crack and Barlow to play defence. Lucky we play Port.

[The Underdog]

So let's get beat by more... Ripper. :rolleyes:

We actually kick a couple of the 4 straight behinds we kick at the end of the 3rd and we are well and truly in the game, but alas we miss and they kick a couple and it's game over.

Fpr all of the positive Hall feedback, he has to kick one of those goals when we're 4 goals down in the third. Still giving up 150 points is inexcusable.

Would like to see Vez get a game next week, maybe Tutt gets a taste at the expense of Howard or Schofield (yeah it's kind of pointless but it gives another kid a taste and Tutt did some nice things today). Barlow was good today for Willi despite his faux aggression at some Port players in the last. We'll be makeshifting with key defenders for the last 3 weeks.

In: Barlow, Tutt, Cordy, Vezspremi
Out: Howard, Morris (inj), Hargrave (inj), Schofield

[the banker]

So let's get beat by more... Ripper. :rolleyes:

We actually kick a couple of the 4 straight behinds we kick at the end of the 3rd and we are well and truly in the game, but alas we miss and they kick a couple and it's game over.

Slightly delusional IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Yes we have a great ability to come back into a game, even hit the front and still lose by a number of goals. Had We taken our chances we would have still lost by 6 goals.


Out. Morris, Hargrave
In. Ves, Cordy

Ward may have to spend some time down back.

[Mantis]

Slightly delusional IMO.

How is that delusional? We had all the momentum and the play at that point, but like so many times before we missed gettable goals and paid the price.

[DOG GOD]

Out: Morris, Hudson, Shaggy

In: Vez, Minson, Barlow

Need to give Will the chance to be no. 1 Ruck, would still persist with Roughy but geez he was disappointing tonight. Vez to be given a crack and Barlow to play defence. Lucky we play Port.

Wouldnt suprise me one bit if we lose next week, even though Port are a rabble.

[DOG GOD]

How is that delusional? We had all the momentum and the play at that point, but like so many times before we missed gettable goals and paid the price.

Totally agree mantis...we were well on top in that 3rd qtr. Essendon started playing defensive footy (when they had the ball), and the 4 shots we missed from Hall (2), Ward and Higgins pretty much killed the chance, and once Essendon got their mojo back with 2 late goals, that was it.

[mjp]

Unless the 'fab 4' have spoken to the coach I doubt very much that this is going to happen.

Is it really a gamble to bring him in?

He was great in the Foxtel Cup GF - and in the bests again yesterday...I am not exactly sure what else he is supposed to do?

If Hooper is worth an occasional game, surely Veszpremi deserves a go?

[GVGjr]

Is it really a gamble to bring him in?

He was great in the Foxtel Cup GF - and in the bests again yesterday...I am not exactly sure what else he is supposed to do?

If Hooper is worth an occasional game, surely Veszpremi deserves a go?

Based on last night's game, where we are at as a club and his own form it's certainly time for Veszpremi to not only be played next week but also for the balance of the season.

[Rocco Jones]

We actually kick a couple of the 4 straight behinds we kick at the end of the 3rd and we are well and truly in the game, but alas we miss and they kick a couple and it's game over.

I think if we kicked those goals we would have just reduced the margin. The way our backline was going, eventually all they would have had to do is get it there to get some momentum back.

[Rocco Jones]

Based on last night's game, where we are at as a club and his own form it's certainly time for Veszpremi to not only be played next week but also for the balance of the season.

Eade has been criticised for making his decision/being stubborn on players and Vez doesn't go against proving that.

I have made the 'either he plays well or reality check in time for pre-season' but if he keeps playing well and not getting picked, he could go into the pre-season with a sense of feeling wronged rather than one with confidence at highest level or a clear understanding of what he is lacking. Eade backers will shout that is Vez's lesson to learn for himself but that truly is cutting your nose to spite your face type thinking.

[the banker]

How is that delusional? We had all the momentum and the play at that point, but like so many times before we missed gettable goals and paid the price.

Wityh respect, I don't think its a realistic proposition that but for one or two conversions we could have won this game.

[Rocco Jones]

Wityh respect, I don't think its a realistic proposition that but for one or two conversions we could have won this game.

Especially when our backline last night is the analogy sieves will use when talking about leakier sieves.

[The Underdog]

Is it really a gamble to bring him in?

He was great in the Foxtel Cup GF - and in the bests again yesterday...I am not exactly sure what else he is supposed to do?

If Hooper is worth an occasional game, surely Veszpremi deserves a go?

Veszpremi has the advantage of being both skilled and by foot and a smart footballer. He isn't a 30 possession guy and he may be not as fit as he could be but he should have a spot in the team for the next 3 weeks. If we're working towards next year then he should be picked, if we're playing our best available 22, then he should be picked.

[Rocco Jones]

Veszpremi has the advantage of being both skilled and by foot and a smart footballer. He isn't a 30 possession guy and he may be not as fit as he could be but he should have a spot in the team for the next 3 weeks. If we're working towards next year then he should be picked, if we're playing our best available 22, then he should be picked.

Yep. I am certainly not comparing him to the magnificence that is Cyril Rioli but yesterday he proved how damaging you can be with only 16 possies. If Cyril can be an absolute gun with 15-16 possies a week, perhaps Vez can be a valuable player with about the same amount. I know Vez is a world away from him, especially with his pressure but Rioli probably not the benchmark for our 22nd spot.

Now I have finished writing that I have realised that Stevie J is probably a better example! Once again Vez= poor mans version.

Why did we trade him in? We knew about his issues, he is performing well for Willy and our season's shot.

BTW- Why is Hudson in the team? He is gone. Even if Eade is desperate to keep his job, Minson looks a pretty clear superior short term option.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Veszpremi has the advantage of being both skilled and by foot and a smart footballer. He isn't a 30 possession guy and he may be not as fit as he could be but he should have a spot in the team for the next 3 weeks. If we're working towards next year then he should be picked, if we're playing our best available 22, then he should be picked.

He is also a slow footballer

[Rocco Jones]

He is also a slow footballer

So why did we recruit him? Let me guess, all James Fantasia's fault?

[Sockeye Salmon]

So why did we recruit him? Let me guess, all James Fantasia's fault?

Don't get me wrong, he can play. My point was he was starting to be talked up, he was starting to sound almost as good as Barlow.

Of course he should play, and I'm sure he will, but he hasn't exactly bashed the door down to get in.

I do worry about Ves and Gia in the same forward line.




And we traded him for Everitt, let's keep it in perspective.

[Rocco Jones]

Don't get me wrong, he can play. My point was he was starting to be talked up, he was starting to sound almost as good as Barlow.

Of course he should play, and I'm sure he will, but he hasn't exactly bashed the door down to get in.

I do worry about Ves and Gia in the same forward line.




And we traded him for Everitt, let's keep it in perspective.

Fair enough, pretty much agree with all that.

[GVGjr]

Don't get me wrong, he can play. My point was he was starting to be talked up, he was starting to sound almost as good as Barlow.

Of course he should play, and I'm sure he will, but he hasn't exactly bashed the door down to get in.

I do worry about Ves and Gia in the same forward line.


And we traded him for Everitt, let's keep it in perspective.

At the time of trading for DJ, Sherman and Veszpremi the general consensus was that we acquired guys who could all be rotated through the midfield. Now we are saying that Ves is slow.

I know he hasn't banged the door down for selection but at some point we need to find out if the coach can make it work and off the back of 2 good games in a row now is the obvious time.

By the way, given all Veszpremi's limitations why didn't we just trade Everitt for a draft pick?

[bornadog]

According to Eade, Cordy, Vez and Tutt will all play over the next few weeks.

[Rocco Jones]

According to Eade, Cordy, Vez and Tutt will all play over the next few weeks.

Great to hear.

[mjp]

At the time of trading for DJ, Sherman and Veszpremi the general consensus was that we acquired guys who could all be rotated through the midfield. Now we are saying that Ves is slow.

I wouldn't have said Veszpremi was slow. I thought the criticism was that his endurance was poor...he is quick enough across the ground.



By the way, given all Veszpremi's limitations why didn't we just trade Everitt for a draft pick?

And why didn't we trade Hill for SOMETHING? Our stubborness about his perceived value has cost us another player.

[GVGjr]

I wouldn't have said Veszpremi was slow. I thought the criticism was that his endurance was poor...he is quick enough across the ground.


I certainly don't regard him as a speedster but I'm challenging Sockeye saying he is slow.
Like you, I'm more concerned with his endurance.



And why didn't we trade Hill for SOMETHING? Our stubborness about his perceived value has cost us another player.

From memory the Hawks offered us two picks.
This is part of the reason why I question the merit of Fantasia and the decisions of the club at the trade period.
For Fantasia to talk up Hill as being a top 20 draft pick after knocking back better than originally requested offer for him, albeit a very late offer, means we should have been very confident we could getting him back playing the sort of football we wanted.

I think Fantasia should be measured against that statement.

We knocked back a deal with the Saints for Everitt 12 months before traded him for Veszpremi and I don't think we will get a superior offer for Hill this time.

[mjp]

I think Fantasia should be measured against that statement.

We knocked back a deal with the Saints for Everitt 12 months before traded him for Veszpremi and I don't think we will get a superior offer for Hill this time.

I have had the same issue with both of those decisions - the players in question were never going to PLAY for us. Everitt (after 2009) and Hill (after 2010) had clearly lost the confidence of the MC...therefore the only reason for us not to trade them was to assist Williamstown in its push to win the VFL premiership.

I know it is simplistic - and I know, I know, you can't 'give them away' - but if you aren't going to play them then you are essentially paying a couple of guys who are just not going to ever be considered for the seniors...and sure, both of them got a couple of token games here and there (they are talented after all) but that was all it was ever going to be.

I am starting to think Grant is going to be the 2012 version of Hill (2011)/Everitt (2010) and hope we are a lot smarter in managing that situation.

Now that this thread is completely off the track, I will finish!

[Sockeye Salmon]

We knocked back a deal with the Saints for Everitt 12 months before traded him for Veszpremi and I don't think we will get a superior offer for Hill this time.

Essendon killed that deal when Lovett became available. We would have traded Everitt then.

[1eyedog]

Totally agree mantis...we were well on top in that 3rd qtr. Essendon started playing defensive footy (when they had the ball), and the 4 shots we missed from Hall (2), Ward and Higgins pretty much killed the chance, and once Essendon got their mojo back with 2 late goals, that was it.

DJ's miss running into an open goal (banana?) was a critical miss too.


Wityh respect, I don't think its a realistic proposition that but for one or two conversions we could have won this game.

Hall played very well, but IMO he was selfish. He blazed away so many times when players were free it reminded me of Johnno in his last season. I think it was all about Hall proving something last night. I think it will be about Hall for the remainder of the year actually.

[GVGjr]

Essendon killed that deal when Lovett became available. We would have traded Everitt then.

We wanted something like a top 20 pick and 12 months later we got Veszpremi?

[chef]

Essendon killed that deal when Lovett became available. We would have traded Everitt then.

Wasn't he going to be involved in the failed Ball trade that would have included North, Us, Pies and the Saints.

[AndrewP6]

Hall played very well, but IMO he was selfish. He blazed away so many times when players were free it reminded me of Johnno in his last season. I think it was all about Hall proving something last night. I think it will be about Hall for the remainder of the year actually.

Hugely unfair criticism. In a game where no one really looked likely in the F50, Hall presented, backed himself, and let's not forget, converted 6 goals. Gia was largely unsighted; someone had to step up, and he did. His two misses were unfortunate, but were gettable, rather than sitters. Had he not dropped two marks, they too could've been goals, and had Fletcher not tripped him at the top of the goalsquare, he would've had another. Comparing him to Johnno's final year is wrong. Johnno limped to the end, barely contributing. Baz has been huge over the last month. Maybe he missed spotting up a couple, but I'd back him in each time.

Hall proving something? Sure did. He proved that he's a champion of the game, that he's still got what it takes. And he proved that we're going to sorely miss him next season.

[Go_Dogs]

Unless the 'fab 4' have spoken to the coach I doubt very much that this is going to happen.


Smorgon, Garlick, Fantasia & Pappas.

Unless they give instructions to the coach that we are in experimental mode the changes you ask for will not happen.

So, the coach no longer makes football related decisions and needs to receive direction from those you've mentioned? Well, we're in a much worse position than I thought.


Based on last night's game, where we are at as a club and his own form it's certainly time for Veszpremi to not only be played next week but also for the balance of the season.

Agreed. Tutt too for mine, need to get some games into these guys and see if they are going to be a part of us going forwards.


I am starting to think Grant is going to be the 2012 version of Hill (2011)/Everitt (2010) and hope we are a lot smarter in managing that situation.

I can see where you are coming from, given he seems to show some of the same 'intensity' issues, but unlike the others Grant has at least shown the required intensity at times. I certainly think he's in our plans moving forwards. He needs a big pre-season, and some confidence - but I'm not yet ready to group him with the other two you mention.


We wanted something like a top 20 pick and 12 months later we got Veszpremi?

What would Sydney have wanted for Vezspremi on an open market though? I'd suggest given he was a similar high draft pick, like Everitt, it is probably about right. Everitt being a 'tall' probably gave him slightly greater currency and again, I question the strength of our negotiation skills.




Back on track:

In: Vez, Tutt and Cordy

Out: Morris, Schofield and Hargrave

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=mjp;233045]I wouldn't have said Veszpremi was slow. I thought the criticism was that his endurance was poor...he is quick enough across the ground.

Yes. An avid Swans mate suggests that Ves does not have 2nd and 3rd efforts, that despite having all the skills essentially he keeps running out of puff. His feeling was that he may never be able to change this. I would have thought that in today's football, to match sides like Collingwood, you just can't afford to have players who don't have endurance.

[bornadog]

[QUOTE=mjp;233045]I wouldn't have said Veszpremi was slow. I thought the criticism was that his endurance was poor...he is quick enough across the ground.

Yes. An avid Swans mate suggests that Ves does not have 2nd and 3rd efforts, that despite having all the skills essentially he keeps running out of puff. His feeling was that he may never be able to change this. I would have thought that in today's football, to match sides like Collingwood, you just can't afford to have players who don't have endurance.

He has pretty much played like that at Willi.

[1eyedog]

Hugely unfair criticism. In a game where no one really looked likely in the F50, Hall presented, backed himself, and let's not forget, converted 6 goals. Gia was largely unsighted; someone had to step up, and he did. His two misses were unfortunate, but were gettable, rather than sitters. Had he not dropped two marks, they too could've been goals, and had Fletcher not tripped him at the top of the goalsquare, he would've had another. Comparing him to Johnno's final year is wrong. Johnno limped to the end, barely contributing. Baz has been huge over the last month. Maybe he missed spotting up a couple, but I'd back him in each time.

Hall proving something? Sure did. He proved that he's a champion of the game, that he's still got what it takes. And he proved that we're going to sorely miss him next season.

Agree with this, but does not subtract from the fact that when we were 24 points down and had kicked the last four goals there were two clear occasions where Hall did not lower his eyes and blazed away at goal across his body. One attempt dribbled through for a point, the other was marked by an Essendon player in the forward pocket. On both occasions a loose player was 5 metres away with his hands out. It happened earlier in the second quarter as well.

Look, I'm realistic, Hall was fantastic, he was primarily the reason why we were only 4 goals down in the third quarter, but I thought he tried to do everything himself last night to the slight detriment to the team when it mattered,

I don't hold it against him, how could you, he was sensational. It was just an observation.

[AndrewP6]

Agree with this, but does not subtract from the fact that when we were 24 points down and had kicked the last four goals there were two clear occasions where Hall did not lower his eyes and blazed away at goal across his body. One attempt dribbled through for a point, the other was marked by an Essendon player in the forward pocket. On both occasions a loose player was 5 metres away with his hands out. It happened earlier in the second quarter as well.

Look, I'm realistic, Hall was fantastic, he was primarily the reason why we were only 4 goals down in the third quarter, but I thought he tried to do everything himself last night to the slight detriment to the team when it mattered,

I don't hold it against him, how could you, he was sensational. It was just an observation.

Fair enough.

[LostDoggy]

Lets put Grant back in the team and play him in defence where he might be able to learn how to play forward by following one around. He is quick has got good hands and is 6' 4' ... we have to turn him into a player as he has everything we need

[Desipura]

MJP , eade was quoted as saying he has no idea who will play full forward next season. Is this due in part because Rocket does not know if he will be at the dogs next season and is playing players to win as many games this season?
If so, I would have thought you do not just coach for the present but also for the future even if you are coming out of contract?
I guess that is one of the disadvantages of negotiating a contract at the end of the season.

[GVGjr]

MJP , eade was quoted as saying he has no idea who will play full forward next season. Is this due in part because Rocket does not know if he will be at the dogs next season and is playing players to win as many games this season?

I guess that is one of the disadvantages of negotiating a contract at the end of the season.

I think it's a recognition of the players we have. There is no genuine candidate to play FF. Jones is probably better suited to CHF and Grant as a HFF Maybe its a reflection on how Lake presents himself next season.
Jones will probably be given the role though.

[Ozza]

In:
Minson
Barlow
Cordy
Vezspremi

Out:
Hargrave (whether he is injured or not - I think he is done unfortunately).
Morris
Hudson
Roughead

[Mantis]

Wityh respect, I don't think its a realistic proposition that but for one or two conversions we could have won this game.

I never said we would have won, just saying if we had closed the margain to a couple of goals late in the 3rd like we should have we would have given it a shake.

[the banker]

I never said we would have won, just saying if we had closed the margain to a couple of goals late in the 3rd like we should have we would have given it a shake.

Agree with that.

[Mantis]

Is it really a gamble to bring him in?
He was great in the Foxtel Cup GF - and in the bests again yesterday...I am not exactly sure what else he is supposed to do?

If Hooper is worth an occasional game, surely Veszpremi deserves a go?

My discussion had nothing to do with Vez playing.

It was about playing Roughead as the no.1 ruck which I still think is a silly thought given he can't even compete in the secondary role.

As far as Vez playing I have no problems, but do worry about having Vez, Gia & Higgins in the same forwardline... as SS mentioned.

[LostDoggy]

I'm interested in the selections on here given that almost everyone to a fault had lambasted DJ previously and wanted him gone. Much gnashing of teeth about how we could have signed him up on a 3 year contract.

I think, and have said before, that he requires patience, perseverance and time to gain experience. I see elements of a good footballer there, but it's like he is out of sync with the speed of footy.

Dahlhouse has the balance and nimbleness to evade, jump up quickly, stay on his feet and instinctively know where to go and where to handball in pressure situations. DJ has speed but seems to have the body that isn't nimble and carries him forward in a straight line, resulting in being caught or giving away frees.

He also seems to have a blind spot when getting rid of the ball quickly. He doesn't always hit the target and thinks ahead or behind what his hands are doing (hence the fumbles). Is he ahead of the play or behind it in his actions? Time will tell whether he is capable of progressing, but Saturday night was encouraging.

[Rocco Jones]

It was about playing Roughead as the no.1 ruck which I still think is a silly thought given he can't even compete in the secondary role.


I think the game has moved on from the time where the 2nd role was seen as much easier than the 1st ruck role. I think a player can struggle to compete in the 2nd role and be decent in the 1st and vice versa. The 1st ruck role is primarily about ruckwork whereas the 2nd role requires you to spend twice as much time up forward. I think Roughy isn't going to be great in the #1 role but IMO he is more suited to it than the #2 role. As I've said a few times, I see him as a ruckman who goes forward rather than the other way around.

TBH I totally agree that Roughy is struggling. For mine, if he is only playing 20% or so time in the ruck he just isn't worth his spot in the side. I think he is a liability for us forward.

Perhaps we could bring in Minson and they can have a bit more of a 50/50 spilt? Whatever the case, I really hope we stop playing Hudson.

[Ozza]

Dahlhouse has the balance and nimbleness to evade, jump up quickly, stay on his feet and instinctively know where to go and where to handball in pressure situations. DJ has speed but seems to have the body that isn't nimble and carries him forward in a straight line, resulting in being caught.

He also seems to have a blind spot when getting rid of the ball quickly. He doesn't always hit the target and thinks ahead or behind what his hands are doing (hence the fumbles). Is he ahead of the play or behind it in his actions? Time will tell whether he is capable of progressing, but Saturday night was encouraging.

Good post Metal. I'm not yet on board with the notion that DJ will make it as an AFL player - but you have some considered arguments there.

I like that you brought up the speed/evasiveness aspect and compared him with Daulhaus. I think DJ's major issue is poise. Speed is always rated very highly - but some guys don't really use their speed well. DJ is always 100 miles straight ahead - when at times he actually needs to stand still and look up at options rather than going pretty much head first at the opposition.

Dyson Heppell isn't quick - but the other night quite a few times - he took the pressure off himself by looking up - and stopping or even shuffling backwards to give himself time.

Perhaps DJ will develop more poise as he gathers experience.

[Mantis]

In:
Minson
Barlow
Cordy
Vezspremi

Out:
Hargrave (whether he is injured or not - I think he is done unfortunately).
Morris
Hudson
Roughead

Hard to disagree with those changes Ozza.

I didn't want Hargrave to play against Ess and his performance did nothing to make my change my mind, he was terrible, but he will probably have to play just because our back half is so under-manned.

No Tutt? I don't disagree as I can't see him being competitive just yet, but if we are to play him at all this year it probably has to be this week.

[The Underdog]

My discussion had nothing to do with Vez playing.

It was about playing Roughead as the no.1 ruck which I still think is a silly thought given he can't even compete in the secondary role.

As far as Vez playing I have no problems, but do worry about having Vez, Gia & Higgins in the same forwardline... as SS mentioned.

Perhaps Higgins in the backline where he's played his best footy this year would help mitigate that. It's not ideal pairing Vez with Gia but we won't know if we don't try it. It's not like we're getting great forward pressure from the guys we have in there.

[Mantis]

Perhaps Higgins in the backline where he's played his best footy this year would help mitigate that. It's not ideal pairing Vez with Gia but we won't know if we don't try it. It's not like we're getting great forward pressure from the guys we have in there.

Yep.

I was a little miffed that he played forward after he had been ok up back in his previous games in the team.

[1eyedog]

Yep.

I was a little miffed that he played forward after he had been ok up back in his previous games in the team.

I think Rocket sees him as a pure forward. It's as if he was sent back to find form and the fact that he has performed well there is of no consequence to the fact that Rocket ultimately wants him forward.

That's how I read it anyway.

Clearly we can't have Gia, Higgins and Vez playing in the same forward line.

[Greystache]

What I can't understand is Veszpremi can't get a game because he doesn't apply enough defensive pressure and is purely an attacking forward, yet Higgins applies less defensive pressure than any other forward in the AFL and is an automatic selecttion every week. No wonder we can't get the team to play team football, there's one set of rules for kids and another set for senior players.

[bornadog]

I think Rocket sees him as a pure forward. It's as if he was sent back to find form and the fact that he has performed well there is of no consequence to the fact that Rocket ultimately wants him forward.

That's how I read it anyway.

Clearly we can't have Gia, Higgins and Vez playing in the same forward line.

Higgins went back because we were struggling against the forward press and we needed some one with good kicking skills to help Murphy. Prior to that we were trying to handball our way out or just slamming it on the foot.

[Ozza]

Hard to disagree with those changes Ozza.

I didn't want Hargrave to play against Ess and his performance did nothing to make my change my mind, he was terrible, but he will probably have to play just because our back half is so under-manned.

No Tutt? I don't disagree as I can't see him being competitive just yet, but if we are to play him at all this year it probably has to be this week.

I'm not against the idea of him playing - but not sure where exactly he'd play at the moment - as we seem to have plenty of smalls getting around at the moment - with Howard likely to play out the year, and Schofield, Stack and DJ all playing. I'd also like to see Wallis go around again - but where to fit all the smalls in - I'm not sure.

I definitely see Higgins returning to Half Back this week as a start. I think Higgins going back - means Vez can play forward and having 3 'slows' (Gia, Higgins, Vez) is avoided.

[LostDoggy]

FWIW Nathan Brown (ex- tigers superstar) described DJ on radio during the call as "not being up to AFL standard" - just after he hit the post. This was during probably his best game to date. Surprised me as I’ve never heard a player downgraded like that on live radio by a commentator.

[Mofra]

Just before he hit the post I descriobed DJ as "almost a footballer" - he is so close it isn't funny. He has the speed and almost gets to the right spot. He fumbles slightly so he almost gets the ball. He actually presents and has the ball kicked to him, but he is often on taller opponents so he almost gets the mark. He almost kicked a goal during our Q3 run on.
Will he ever bridge the gap? Almost isn't going to cut it.

[BulldogBelle]

And he's 22. I repeat, 22.

I say again, 22.

[Sockeye Salmon]

And he's 22. I repeat, 22.

I say again, 22.

Which means precisely what?

At 22 Dale Morris was playing with Doutta Stars.

[soupman]

My side:

FB: 18. Brennan Stack, 37. Lukas Markovic, 29. Easton Wood
HB: 2. Robert Murphy, 49. Ayce Cordy, 7. Shaun Higgins
C: 4. Daniel Cross, 14. Callan Ward, 30. Christian Howard
HF: 13. Daniel Giansiracusa, 19. Liam Jones, 40. Luke Dahlhaus
FF: 23. Jordan Roughead, 28. Barry Hall, 42. Liam Picken
Ru: 27. Will Minson, 5. Matthew Boyd, 16. Ryan Griffen

Int: 33. Nathan Djerrkurra, 34. Jason Tutt, 24. Jayden Schofield

Sub: 32. Patrick Veszpremi

Ins: 27. Minson, 32. Veszpremi, 34. Tutt, 49. Cordy
Outs: 15. Hudson, 21. Liberatore (General soreness), 25. Ryan Hargrave, 38. Dale Morris (Leg)

3 debutants to shake things up and give them an opportunity.

Higgins to half back where he actually played well more than one week in a row for the first time in about 3 or 4 seasons.

Hargrave out as the last two games have shown he isn't up to it atm. He's moved from a possible delisting candidate to a probable for me now.

Picken to try something different. Someone else mentioned we've let players like Picken stagnate in roles that they are good at, and a stint elsewhere could be good for Picken. I'd like to see him replace Higgins in the forwardline and midfield rotations.

Dahlhaus to play midfield as well to try and give us some more spark in there. Wood and Stack could also spend brief stints in there just to give us some acceleration especially at the centre bounces.

Roughead is interchangeable with Barlow in the side, but I'd rather put games into Roughead at this point.

Djerrkurra actually deserves to be picked based on last week.

Schofield gets a chance to start instead of sub.

Veszpremi gets a role he is surely well suited to. Burst player with a small tank=sub. If he plays well in this role he may earn himself proper selection next week.

Tutt and Cordy just need some exposure to the AFL for theirs and our sakes.

Minson over Hudson purely because Hudson is struggling and Minson will lead the ruck division next year. As nice as giving Roughead the responsibility sounds, not sure he's ready or has even demonstrated that it should be considered.

Liberatore dropped because he looks tired and has worked really hard all year. I'm happy for him to play out the year with Willy, he's already shown he is a best 22 player for the next decade and him out means other kids get a go.

I see Schofield, Howard, Stack and Wood all rotating through the backline when matchup permit and I'd like to see all of them also tried in other positions (off a wing or even up forward).

[LostDoggy]

If Hargrave is fit, he'll play no matter how bad he was last week. A backline without Lake, Morris and Williams needs any experienced player available especially one thats semi tall.

[soupman]

If Hargrave is fit, he'll play no matter how bad he was last week. A backline without Lake, Morris and Williams needs any experienced player available especially one thats semi tall.

Yeah fair point but for me it came down to either Hargrave or Schofield and I want to give Schofield the opportunity. Realistically thouh Hargrave will stay in.

[bornadog]

My side:

FB: 18. Brennan Stack, 37. Lukas Markovic, 29. Easton Wood
HB: 2. Robert Murphy, 49. Ayce Cordy, 7. Shaun Higgins
C: 4. Daniel Cross, 14. Callan Ward, 30. Christian Howard
HF: 13. Daniel Giansiracusa, 19. Liam Jones, 40. Luke Dahlhaus
FF: 23. Jordan Roughead, 28. Barry Hall, 42. Liam Picken
Ru: 27. Will Minson, 5. Matthew Boyd, 16. Ryan Griffen

Int: 33. Nathan Djerrkurra, 34. Jason Tutt, 24. Jayden Schofield

Sub: 32. Patrick Veszpremi

Ins: 27. Minson, 32. Veszpremi, 34. Tutt, 49. Cordy
Outs: 15. Hudson, 21. Liberatore (General soreness), 25. Ryan Hargrave, 38. Dale Morris (Leg)

3 debutants to shake things up and give them an opportunity.

Higgins to half back where he actually played well more than one week in a row for the first time in about 3 or 4 seasons.

Hargrave out as the last two games have shown he isn't up to it atm. He's moved from a possible delisting candidate to a probable for me now.

Picken to try something different. Someone else mentioned we've let players like Picken stagnate in roles that they are good at, and a stint elsewhere could be good for Picken. I'd like to see him replace Higgins in the forwardline and midfield rotations.

Dahlhaus to play midfield as well to try and give us some more spark in there. Wood and Stack could also spend brief stints in there just to give us some acceleration especially at the centre bounces.

Roughead is interchangeable with Barlow in the side, but I'd rather put games into Roughead at this point.

Djerrkurra actually deserves to be picked based on last week.

Schofield gets a chance to start instead of sub.

Veszpremi gets a role he is surely well suited to. Burst player with a small tank=sub. If he plays well in this role he may earn himself proper selection next week.

Tutt and Cordy just need some exposure to the AFL for theirs and our sakes.

Minson over Hudson purely because Hudson is struggling and Minson will lead the ruck division next year. As nice as giving Roughead the responsibility sounds, not sure he's ready or has even demonstrated that it should be considered.

Liberatore dropped because he looks tired and has worked really hard all year. I'm happy for him to play out the year with Willy, he's already shown he is a best 22 player for the next decade and him out means other kids get a go.

I see Schofield, Howard, Stack and Wood all rotating through the backline when matchup permit and I'd like to see all of them also tried in other positions (off a wing or even up forward).

Excellent stuff SM, I would back that right in. Backline is inexperienced with Murphy the only one over the age of 23, but we have very little choice.

I think Hargrave should be in, but I believe he has an injury as he had a sore back in the warm up.

[BulldogBelle]

Which means precisely what?

At 22 Dale Morris was playing with Doutta Stars.

That he has all the tools to be a good player, and hopefully with time and patience, he will. I think sometimes people tend to look at him as another one of our older mature aged players that we've recruited.

But he's actually a bit younger.

[Sockeye Salmon]

That he has all the tools to be a good player, and hopefully with time and patience, he will. I think sometimes people tend to look at him as another one of our older mature aged players that we've recruited.

But he's actually a bit younger.

I thought you meant that he is 22 so he won't improve any more and this is as good as it gets!

[bornadog]

I thought you meant that he is 22 so he won't improve any more and this is as good as it gets!

I thought he meant that too.

[Rocco Jones]

Haha, I thought he meant what he actually meant but get the confusion!

I think it's a good point. I also believe that DJ has been hurt by the stigma of the 3 year deal. I think he deserves his spot on the list for next season.

[BulldogBelle]

Haha, my bad. It really did come across that way reading it now!

I tend to go the opposite way and never give up on players making it, when I clearly should. I still had Tilller's and Doog's backs right up until they were delisted!

[bornadog]

Haha, I thought he meant what he actually meant but get the confusion!

I think it's a good point. I also believe that DJ has been hurt by the stigma of the 3 year deal. I think he deserves his spot on the list for next season.

So wasn't a bad decision after all?;)

[Rocco Jones]

So wasn't a bad decision after all?;)

I only teach 1/2s but 1 + 1= 2 not 3 :)

I don't think it's as horrible as others do (assuming he isn't on much per year). Still, why go for 3 when you could do 2? Anyways I'm over DJ's contract, let's give him a decent crack. He is 22 and his last two games are probably the best of his career.

On his ball handling- The obvious 2 reasons for poor handling are skill and confidence. DJ has never played a senior game where he could afford to have a bad one. I would love us to tell him his spot is safe for the rest of the season and see how he goes. I think Eade's handled him very well.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I certainly don't regard him as a speedster but I'm challenging Sockeye saying he is slow.
Like you, I'm more concerned with his endurance.



From memory the Hawks offered us two picks.
This is part of the reason why I question the merit of Fantasia and the decisions of the club at the trade period.
For Fantasia to talk up Hill as being a top 20 draft pick after knocking back better than originally requested offer for him, albeit a very late offer, means we should have been very confident we could getting him back playing the sort of football we wanted.

I think Fantasia should be measured against that statement.

We knocked back a deal with the Saints for Everitt 12 months before traded him for Veszpremi and I don't think we will get a superior offer for Hill this time.
I would like to clarify the take on recruitment. Ultimately it should be up to the senior coach as to final say on recruitment. If Veszpremi was deemed good enough to replace a senior listed player in Everitt then you would expect him to be tried otherwise we didn't do our homework in the first place.You would hardly expect to now get a trade for Josh Hill.We missed the opportunity last year with Hawthorn which is regrettable.

[JohnGentStand]

Ins - Minson, Cordy, Vez, Wallis, Grant

Outs - Hudson, Roughead, Morris, Hargreave, DJ

I have more confidence in Stack becoming a damaging player than DJ.
I have little faith in Scofield, Vez or Mulligan but I hope I'm wrong as we seem to have a heap of 2nd & 3rd tier players that fall under the project or development tag.
Thank the stars Dollhouse makes the weekends exciting...If anyone can convince J. Grant to play with the same gusto we would have ourselves a 6'4" 20kg superstar!

[Maddog37]

We will not know how good these younger players can be until they are confident and not playing for their spot every week. They also need to know their role in the team and build a synergy with their team mates.

I am strangely looking forward to how next year unfolds.

[BulldogBelle]

We will not know how good these younger players can be until they are confident and not playing for their spot every week. They also need to know their role in the team and build a synergy with their team mates.

I am strangely looking forward to how next year unfolds.

I guess that's part of why they come along better at more successful clubs - because they're winning even if the young guys don't make an impact straight away there is no pressure to drop anyone etc

[LostDoggy]

My side:

FB: 18. Brennan Stack, 37. Lukas Markovic, 29. Easton Wood
HB: 2. Robert Murphy, 49. Ayce Cordy, 7. Shaun Higgins
C: 4. Daniel Cross, 14. Callan Ward, 30. Christian Howard
HF: 13. Daniel Giansiracusa, 19. Liam Jones, 40. Luke Dahlhaus
FF: 23. Jordan Roughead, 28. Barry Hall, 42. Liam Picken
Ru: 27. Will Minson, 5. Matthew Boyd, 16. Ryan Griffen

Int: 33. Nathan Djerrkurra, 34. Jason Tutt, 24. Jayden Schofield

Sub: 32. Patrick Veszpremi

Ins: 27. Minson, 32. Veszpremi, 34. Tutt, 49. Cordy
Outs: 15. Hudson, 21. Liberatore (General soreness), 25. Ryan Hargrave, 38. Dale Morris (Leg)

3 debutants to shake things up and give them an opportunity.

I like this but no Wallis? For all the hype he seems to have drifted off the map somewhat. Sad as our situation is, it seems like a good opportunity for him to experience three more senior games before we hit the pre-season?

[soupman]

I like this but no Wallis? For all the hype he seems to have drifted off the map somewhat. Sad as our situation is, it seems like a good opportunity for him to experience three more senior games before we hit the pre-season?

He was next in line, but who do you take out for him. The only vulnerable ones are the bench, and they get a game because:

Djerrkurra: Adds attributes we need that Wallis lacks in acceleration and defensive pressure. Played well last week and deserves another go.

Tutt: I think we need to debut him to a ) see where he is at and b) give him a taste of whats expected. His form in the VFL has been good, as has Wallis', but Tutt also gives us a long kicking outsid eplayer with a bit of pace (not entirely sure how much, but more than Wallis).

Schofield: The closest to not being in my side, but he stays because he's been sub the last two weeks and gives us another hard at it defensive option.

Wallis probably suffers from being the 4th in line to play the slow hit up flanker type in the squad, behind guys like Giansiracusa, Ward, Higgins when forward and Veszpremi. He also lacks the pace we need injected. He was pretty close though.

[Hot_Doggies]

Ins - Minson, Cordy, Vez, Wallis, Grant

Outs - Hudson, Roughead, Morris, Hargreave, DJ

I have more confidence in Stack becoming a damaging player than DJ.I have little faith in Scofield, Vez or Mulligan but I hope I'm wrong as we seem to have a heap of 2nd & 3rd tier players that fall under the project or development tag.
Thank the stars Dollhouse makes the weekends exciting...If anyone can convince J. Grant to play with the same gusto we would have ourselves a 6'4" 20kg superstar!

How could Stack become a damaging player?

He isn't fast
Panics under pressure
Disposal is poor under pressure
Poor awareness

Not a chance in hell......

[chef]

How could Stack become a damaging player?

He isn't fast
Panics under pressure
Disposal is poor under pressure
Poor awareness

Not a chance in hell......

Looking better every game he's played and will be a regular player for us next season IMO.

[Hotdog60]

He was next in line, but who do you take out for him. The only vulnerable ones are the bench, and they get a game because:

Djerrkurra: Adds attributes we need that Wallis lacks in acceleration and defensive pressure. Played well last week and deserves another go.

Tutt: I think we need to debut him to a ) see where he is at and b) give him a taste of whats expected. His form in the VFL has been good, as has Wallis', but Tutt also gives us a long kicking outsid eplayer with a bit of pace (not entirely sure how much, but more than Wallis).

Schofield: The closest to not being in my side, but he stays because he's been sub the last two weeks and gives us another hard at it defensive option.

Wallis probably suffers from being the 4th in line to play the slow hit up flanker type in the squad, behind guys like Giansiracusa, Ward, Higgins when forward and Veszpremi. He also lacks the pace we need injected. He was pretty close though.

Could you tell Cross to take an early break for the year and tell him you want to expose Wallis to some more game time for his develoment.

[Desipura]

Could you tell Cross to take an early break for the year and tell him you want to expose Wallis to some more game time for his develoment.

Wont happen whilst Eade is coach. I do agree with you though.

[Mantis]

Could you tell Cross to take an early break for the year and tell him you want to expose Wallis to some more game time for his develoment.

If you are going to do that you might as well tell Cross to start cleaning out his locker too.

[bornadog]

Could you tell Cross to take an early break for the year and tell him you want to expose Wallis to some more game time for his develoment.

Cross has been very good for us this year playing a more defensive role. His kicking and decision making have been very good. He is fitter and more experienced than guys like Wallis and he is not appreciated by many on this board.

[bornadog]

Schofield: The closest to not being in my side, but he stays because he's been sub the last two weeks and gives us another hard at it defensive option. .

Schofield had very little impact last week with only 3 disposals. I know he needs more game time but so do others and maybe this week he will give way to Tutt.

[Mantis]

Cross has been very good for us this year playing a more defensive role. His kicking and decision making have been very good. He is fitter and more experienced than guys like Wallis and he is not appreciated by many on this board.

You wouldn't find too many supporters who will back you up with that statement.

His efficiency might be ok as he often plays it safe, but these 2 elements aren't a strong feature of his game.

[Mantis]

Schofield had very little impact last week with only 3 disposals. I know he needs more game time but so do others and maybe this week he will give way to Tutt.

Schofield plays in defence, Tutt doesn't & can't.

[Mantis]

I'll take your word for it.

[Ozza]

You wouldn't find too many supporters who will back you up with that statement.

His efficiency might be ok as he often plays it safe, but these 2 elements aren't a strong feature of his game.

His disposal when he takes a mark or gets a free is certainly a liability - as we have to go back or sideways after he takes 10 seconds to work out that he can't hit any targets in front of him. The absolute worst is if Crossy ends up being chipped the footy deep in defence.

[bornadog]

His disposal when he takes a mark or gets a free is certainly a liability - as we have to go back or sideways after he takes 10 seconds to work out that he can't hit any targets in front of him. The absolute worst is if Crossy ends up being chipped the footy deep in defence.

I haven't seen him go backwards once this year. I think he is playing the best footy he has for along time, particularly because his role has changed and his kicking has improved immensley.

[Ozza]

I haven't seen him go backwards once this year. I think he is playing the best footy he has for along time, particularly because his role has changed and his kicking has improved immensley.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

[1eyedog]

Looking better every game he's played and will be a regular player for us next season IMO.

This. He is coming along slowly but you can see his confidence is rising and he is making better decisions.

He also seemed to have more time last week against the Bombers and made better decisions because of it.

[soupman]

Schofield had very little impact last week with only 3 disposals. I know he needs more game time but so do others and maybe this week he will give way to Tutt.

In my scenario if we choose to play Hargrave again Schofield gets dropped but otherwise we might as well play him because of the reasons I've given and the fact that the "drop him to give a young kid a go" argument doesn't work on him because he is a young kid who deserves a proper go.

[G-Mo77]

I wonder if the decision today will change the way teams are selected?

Eade is no longer looking to get the W to save his job so will we see a pseudo tank for the remainder of the year?

[Mantis]

I wonder if the decision today will change the way teams are selected?

Eade is no longer looking to get the W to save his job so will we see a pseudo tank for the remainder of the year?

Eade mentioned in the press conference that the team had pretty much been picked before he was told that his contract wouldn't be re-newed and that we would have 2 new players in the team this week.

[BulldogBelle]

Eade mentioned in the press conference that the team had pretty much been picked before he was told that his contract wouldn't be re-newed and that we would have 2 new players in the team this week.



Tutt and Cordy...

[LostDoggy]

It is understood Cordy, who was in the mix before Eade's sacking as Dogs coach, will make his Bulldogs' debut against Port Adelaide on Sunday.

There is also expected to be another first-gamer, with midfielder Jason Tutt all-but-certain to get the nod.

From the herald sun. I would have expected Tutt anyway, wasn't he an emergency recently?

[Hotdog60]

It looks like the game won't be on in Qld until midnight on 7. I have Foxtel and still can't every game live.:mad: