The Devils Advocate

[Jasper]

I have to say I'm amazed at the sway of opinions on this board being almost 95% disappointed and even angry that Rockets contract wasn't renewed today.

Whilst I agree that he has overseen the most successful period in the club's modern history does anyone actually believe he was in a position to take us to a premiership? After all, that is ultimately what we are trying to achieve.
Rocket gave us 3 cracks at a Grand Final and we failed each time, 2009 heart-breakingly so.

Considering where our list is now at, it would appear to be at least 3 years away from another serious tilt at the top.

So many of our players have stagnated this year, which reflects poorly on the leader.
Look what Chris Scott has managed to do to the careers of James Kelly, Matthew Stokes, Jimmy Bartel, Stevie J. They have a new lease on life when most would have considered them on the downside in 2010 after their Prelim Final loss.

I think we need something of the same.

Malthouse is clearly the dream candidate, but one would assume given our finances, unlikely.
Maybe we need someone like his apprentice Mark Neeld.

Lets just hope the sub-committee who picks the new coach has some true vision and doesn't just plump for one of Garlick's mates.

Here's to a Grand Final in 2014 under Captain Higgins

[Ghost Dog]

Well good on you for being a D advocate
but I have to disagree

Bartel, Steve J are players a cut above most of ours.
They have a great team at geelong that support each other.
We have a few genuine elites, who have had to carry the majority of the load, exposed by holes in our list. ( Griff, Barry, Brian, Coons ) and look how we have struggled without all those, minus griff, who has been a bit off anyway.

If you are going to talk about Geelong, what about the extended slump that Bomber Thompson went through before their rise? He could have easily been replaced and many thought he should have been.

I do think Eade could have taken us to a grand final. why not? He's been there before.
anyway, it's done now. No point moaning.

Captain Higgins??? believe it when I see it.

[chef]

It seems most around here are annoyed at him getting sacked because he was a great bloke, not a great coach.

[chef]

Well good on you for being a D advocate
but I have to disagree

Bartel, Steve J are players a cut above most of ours.
They have a great team at geelong that support each other.
We have a few genuine elites, who have had to carry the majority of the load, exposed by holes in our list. ( Griff, Barry, Brian, Coons ) and look how we have struggled without all those, minus griff, who has been a bit off anyway.

If you are going to talk about Geelong, what about the extended slump that Bomber Thompson went through before their rise? He could have easily been replaced and many thought he should have been.

I do think Eade could have taken us to a grand final. why not? He's been there before.
anyway, it's done now. No point moaning.

Captain Higgins??? believe it when I see it.

IMO if he was ever going to take us to grand final he would have already. The group of players he was in charge of in the 2008-2010 period was as good as any the history of our club.

It is the right time for change.

[Jasper]

It seems most around here are annoyed at him getting sacked because he was a great bloke, not a great coach.

That is a very accurate statement.
Malthouse is an arrogant pr!ck, but I'd take him in a heartbeat

[bornadog]

It seems most around here are annoyed at him getting sacked because he was a great bloke, not a great coach.

Thats rubbish Chef, his record stands for it self.

[Desipura]

A number of reports suggest that his inability to keep up with the modern game may be one of the main reasons he was not retained.

[chef]

Thats rubbish Chef, his record stands for it self.

What in his record makes him a great coach?

Don't get me wrong I think he has been good for us, but he's not a great.

[Curly5]

His age went against him in the end, I'm sorry to say. Yesterday I was very disappointed but now I'm seeing the positives. Change is always hard to deal with at first but we'll adapt. A young coach will be a good move, imo.

Good luck, Rocket.

[Greystache]

Thats rubbish Chef, his record stands for it self.

14 years, winning % of 54, 1 grand final, and 1 win from 11 finals against top 4 teams.

What is speaking that I'm missing?

[bornadog]

It seems most around here are annoyed at him getting sacked because he was a great bloke, not a great coach.


What in his record makes him a great coach?

Don't get me wrong I think he has been good for us, but he's not a great.


14 years, winning % of 54, 1 grand final, and 1 win from 11 finals against top 4 teams.

What is speaking that I'm missing?

This conversation has been misquoted. I was responding to the bolded bit.

[stefoid]

We cant know what the relationship between rocket and the board and the players really was like.

I dont know either, but IF rocket didnt have the confidence of the players, what other choice is there? You cant sack the team.

[LostDoggy]

He had NOT lost the players. Some admin people didn't like him much.

[LostDoggy]

The likely scenario is that we are headed for a rebuild/refresh with another tilt a few years away. So the next coach needs to have at least 3-4 years otherwise we enter a list destroying period of short term decisions. Eade had his turn and couldn't get the ultimate prize. Given he has had two very good shots at it at both Sydney and us, the decision is, does he get a third chance or do we try someone else? No doubt Eade is an excellent coach, no one stays in such a job for that long without being one but I'm comfortable in the decision to try another path.

[Mantis]

It seems most around here are annoyed at him getting sacked because he was a great bloke, not a great coach.

I think many are more annoyed with the way that it's been done... I know I am.

[chef]

I think many are more annoyed with the way that it's been done... I know I am.

Fair enough, did you think it was time?

[Mantis]

Fair enough, did you think it was time?

I can understand reasons why it's been done, but as explained by posters in other threads there are further underlying issues which needed more immediate attention.

The reasoning given by Smorgon at that presser took us all as fools.

[Scraggers]

It seems most around here are annoyed at him getting sacked because he was a great bloke, not a great coach.


I disagree Chef ... Yes he was a great bloke, but that is not why I am annoyed.

The way it was done wreaks. Saying it was a courageous decision ... It would have been a courageous decision to keep him (along the lines of Bomber Thompson at Geelong).

What annoys me the most is that I don't think in this current climate, that there is a better option. I fear that going with an untried coach could leave us in a "Matthew Knight or Peter Rhode" situation. Both these coaches had success with their VFL / SAFL teams but failed at the elite level. This may not be the case, but this is what I feel !!

I hope in five years from now (because I believe that's how long it will now take us to be competitive again) you and I are having this conversation, and you are rubbing my face in it saying "I told you so" ... right now though, I feel it might be the other way.

[Bulldog4life]

I can understand reasons why it's been done, but as explained by posters in other threads there are further underlying issues which needed more immediate attention.

The reasoning given by Smorgon at that presser took us all as fools.

Yes I can't see how they are going to "refresh" just by getting rid of Rocket. Have they got any other plans to "refresh"? Who knows.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Fair enough, did you think it was time?

Absolutely not.

To win a flag you either have to be exceptional (we weren't) or everything has to go exactly to plan (it didn't).

Without your two best players fit and firing (and a fair support cast missing as well; Hall, Hargrave, Wood) we were never a serious threat.


Under the circumstances, and especially considering the age of many of our senior players, Eade has been getting games into kids all year.

The round 5, 6 & 7 games v Freo, Collingwood and Sydney were the three that destroyed our season. By then Eade had already given debuts to Liberatore, Markovic, Wallis and Skinner and played another 6 guys who had less than 15 games to their name (Wood, Jones, Djerrkura, Stack, Roughead & Moles). Half a side of rookies by round 7!


Eade should have been congratulated for taking a long-term view and re-signed for 3 more years to develop this group.

We have next to no chance of finding a better rookie coach and if we do it will be pure arse because every assistant being considered has been interviewed and overlooked by others already.


We have just done the coaching equivalent of trading Ryan Griffen for a second round draft pick. We might pick Dane Swan, it's far more likely we'll get Dylan Addison.

[LostDoggy]

We have just done the coaching equivalent of trading Ryan Griffen for a second round draft pick. We might pick Dane Swan, it's far more likely we'll get Dylan Addison.

This.

Griff may not be seen by many as A+, but he's at the very least an A- (as I think most would agree Rocket is, at least) and you don't trade A-minuses away in some faint hope of something better.

Btw, a 54% win record stands up pretty well -- most coaches in this caper end their careers with a below 50 win-loss percentage.

Finally, a pertinent stat that is often overlooked is the achievement-to-football-department-dollars-spent ratio, which over the last five years would have Rocket's time at the Dogs a clear no.1, Laidley a distant no.2, Malthouse and Worsfold somewhere in midtable, and Ratten with the wooden spoon.

[bornadog]

Absolutely not.

To win a flag you either have to be exceptional (we weren't) or everything has to go exactly to plan (it didn't).

Without your two best players fit and firing (and a fair support cast missing as well; Hall, Hargrave, Wood) we were never a serious threat.


Under the circumstances, and especially considering the age of many of our senior players, Eade has been getting games into kids all year.

The round 5, 6 & 7 games v Freo, Collingwood and Sydney were the three that destroyed our season. By then Eade had already given debuts to Liberatore, Markovic, Wallis and Skinner and played another 6 guys who had less than 15 games to their name (Wood, Jones, Djerrkura, Stack, Roughead & Moles). Half a side of rookies by round 7!


Eade should have been congratulated for taking a long-term view and re-signed for 3 more years to develop this group.

We have next to no chance of finding a better rookie coach and if we do it will be pure arse because every assistant being considered has been interviewed and overlooked by others already.


We have just done the coaching equivalent of trading Ryan Griffen for a second round draft pick. We might pick Dane Swan, it's far more likely we'll get Dylan Addison.

Good post SS, agree entirely. I am really worried about the calibra of coach we are going to get. Of the tried and true coaches, Paul Roos is not interested in coaching next year and we have bucklies hope of getting Mick. Laidley is a good assistant, forget Williams and Neil Craig would be another good assistant, if we could afford him.

Who does that leave? It will be a punt on an Adam Simpson, or another unknown rookie or a rejected assistant.