Our next coach?

[chef]

Who do you want?

[Hotdog60]

Isn't this the same as the Its done now,who will take over? thread.:confused:

[chef]

Isn't this the same as the Its done now,who will take over? thread.:confused:

I like polls.


Neeld for me, not that I have any idea. Just he he's highly regarded by quite a few and comes from a successful club. Spoke very well the other night on the TV and had been a big part of Collingwood's success.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Let me preface this by saying I have NO idea.

However, getting a highly regarded assistant from Collingwood can only be a good thing. Neeld gets my vote on this alone, until I have something more to go off.

I'm really interested in the support staff too. I'd like to see German on board, I've been impressed with him at VFL level.

[LostDoggy]

neeld for me cause malthouse recommends him

[DOG GOD]

I like polls.


Neeld for me, not that I have any idea. Just he he's highly regarded by quite a few and comes from a successful club. Spoke very well the other night on the TV and had been a big part of Collingwood's success.

Agree with this based on everything that u have said Chef.

[The Doctor]

Malthouse with Neeld would be nice.

[bornadog]

Sanderson

[bulldogsman]

Sanderson

Surprised he didn't get the Geelong gig, I voted for him also.

[bornadog]

Surprised he didn't get the Geelong gig, I voted for him also.

I agree, Scott came out of the blue. Apparently highly rated and comes from a successful team, so could be good for us.

[The Adelaide Connection]

It is not going to happen but I would love Roos. I think he is too happy doind what he is doing and still too much of a Swans man, I don't think we will see him coach again.

[LostDoggy]

I think Rocket should re-apply for his old job. Isn't that what happens in many jobs???

[comrade]

I think Rocket should re-apply for his old job. Isn't that what happens in many jobs???

I know you were kidding, but why would he? Melbourne and Adelaide are probably beating down his door as we speak.

That's pretty unusual for a sacked coach, I would think.

[the banker]

From the outside:

Scott because he presents as a strong committed person with a history of success

Neeld presents as though he understands the simplicity (& complexity) of the game, been a part of recent success and has the imprimatur of Malthouse

Sanderson , havent seen him perform in the media, but as many thought he would get the Geelong job last year, I would expect he has strong credentials.

Does our squad need a Geelong game plan or a Collingwood/WestCoast? Rocket has coached them more in the Geelong style.

[the banker]

Maybe Laidley as Assistant?

[strebla]

I voted Malthouse because if we can get him I want him mostly because I want someone who will come in and say we need this,this and this and we need it now. Our problems stem from being too bloody thrifty we need to spend money to make money winning a flag can generate enough money to wipe off our debt now is a time to be bold and go where no bulldog admin has dreamed of going before!!!

[Scraggers]

I voted Malthouse because if we can get him I want him mostly because I want someone who will come in and say we need this,this and this and we need it now. Our problems stem from being too bloody thrifty we need to spend money to make money winning a flag can generate enough money to wipe off our debt now is a time to be bold and go where no bulldog admin has dreamed of going before!!!

Live long and prosper

[LostDoggy]

I voted Malthouse because if we can get him I want him mostly because I want someone who will come in and say we need this,this and this and we need it now. Our problems stem from being too bloody thrifty we need to spend money to make money winning a flag can generate enough money to wipe off our debt now is a time to be bold and go where no bulldog admin has dreamed of going before!!!

Need to have money to spend it. I appreciate and agree with the sentiment, but the facts of life remain.

If you're really pissed off about it, I suggest donating to the Bulldoze The Debt campaign.

[LostDoggy]

Did anyone watch the Marngnook show last night? Gary Hocking's name was being put forward as a prospective new coach! Whilst it's easy to get sentimental about favourite sons, I think we need a new, fresh approach. Malthouse - ???? I'm not sure about and can we afford him?

[bornadog]

Paul Williams has stated he will apply for the job:

This today here (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/westernbulldogsnewsfeatures/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/121399/default.aspx)

Extract:

"Williams said on Friday he would apply for the full time position, and would endeavour to use the next three weeks to tweak the defensive side of the Dogs' game, give young players specific roles and ensure the list was set up well for the upcoming pre-season."

[Mantis]

One of the reasons given for not re-hiring Eade was that it was doubted that when we are next ready to contend, the year 2015 was given, it was unknown if he would have the energy to continue given he would be 57.

Given MM is already 57 I can't see us going down that path given the above reasoning.

[Sedat]

Paul Williams has stated he will apply for the job:

This today here (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/westernbulldogsnewsfeatures/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/121399/default.aspx)

Extract:

"Williams said on Friday he would apply for the full time position, and would endeavour to use the next three weeks to tweak the defensive side of the Dogs' game, give young players specific roles and ensure the list was set up well for the upcoming pre-season."
Good on him for throwing his hat in the ring. Other current caretakers have taken the Jade Rawlings approach of shying away from ambition, and have shown a similar lack of belief and conviction in their ability and desire to become senior coaches. Williams' response and attitude is very refreshing, and his team selection is certainly bold even by late season 'out-of-contention' standards. When was the last time Minson and Hudson shard ruck duties for Williamstown? Probably never.

[strebla]

Need to have money to spend it. I appreciate and agree with the sentiment, but the facts of life remain.

If you're really pissed off about it, I suggest donating to the Bulldoze The Debt campaign.

That very thing has been on my mind all year it is a little difficult as i pay for 4 adult memberships with 4 seats and 2 social club memberships but if I am able and my respect for the board returns I will.That said I am still very hurt about what has gone down the club are saying there is more money for the footy department next year BAS it was said two weeks ago just a shame rocket won't be there to enjoy it.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Good on him for throwing his hat in the ring. Other current caretakers have taken the Jade Rawlings approach of shying away from ambition, and have shown a similar lack of belief and conviction in their ability and desire to become senior coaches. Williams' response and attitude is very refreshing, and his team selection is certainly bold even by late season 'out-of-contention' standards. When was the last time Minson and Hudson shard ruck duties for Williamstown? Probably never.

The team was picked Tuesday. Rocket had already told us that Tutt and Cordy were in.

[LostDoggy]

That very thing has been on my mind all year it is a little difficult as i pay for 4 adult memberships with 4 seats and 2 social club memberships but if I am able and my respect for the board returns I will.That said I am still very hurt about what has gone down the club are saying there is more money for the footy department next year BAS it was said two weeks ago just a shame rocket won't be there to enjoy it.

No, I must apologise, that's not what I meant. I'd have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that every poster here puts their money where their mouth is when it comes to the Dogs. 100%.

What I meant was, our financial situation at the moment dictates these kinds of things and what we are capable of, and initiatives like Bulldoze The Debt are desperately needed to try and catch up with the rest of the league.

[bornadog]

No, I must apologise, that's not what I meant. I'd have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that every poster here puts their money where their mouth is when it comes to the Dogs. 100%.

What I meant was, our financial situation at the moment dictates these kinds of things and what we are capable of, and initiatives like Bulldoze The Debt are desperately needed to try and catch up with the rest of the league.

The profits we have posted the last three four years has only gone to paying the interest on the debt, so we made no inroads. Only with Bulldoze the Debt can we reduce the interest by reducing the debt and then plowing money into the footy department.

[strebla]

No, I must apologise, that's not what I meant. I'd have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that every poster here puts their money where their mouth is when it comes to the Dogs. 100%.

What I meant was, our financial situation at the moment dictates these kinds of things and what we are capable of, and initiatives like Bulldoze The Debt are desperately needed to try and catch up with the rest of the league.

No I understand that my point was that the club has already said there is more money for the footy department next year I just wish that Rocket was there to enjoy it. I took no offence to your post BAS so don't worry and i know the interest is killing us but if we don't start spending money on the foot dept we will lose members sponsors and other areas of finance if the club can not suceed on the field thats all.

[mjp]

My feeling is that Laidley will be the appointment and I have no issues with that.

My personal preference would be for Neeldy to get the gig - would greatly enhance my ability to find out what is going on at the club - but I very much doubt the club is looking to go with a coach who is unproven at AFL level.

Eade is arguably the most successful coach in our clubs history. He came to the club having coached for 7 years in a difficult environment (Sydney) - a club with lots of hidden AFL agendas. Laidley spent 7 years with North - another club where the coach is asked to deal with particularly difficult circumstances mostly related to finance. Eade had 2 years off. Laidley has had 2 years off. Both are premiership players from the most successful era in their respective clubs histories. Both have been generally regarded as strong tactical coaches who are weaker in the area of development and tend to depend on their experienced players when backed into a corner...Both would have learned a lot - a LOT - in their first stints in charge and be ready to go with comprehensive plans for phase 2 of their careers with extensive if-then experience.

I think the club will believe that in appointing Laidley they are getting themselves the 2005 version of Rodney Eade...and that guy is the coach they want right now.

[the banker]

MJP would Laidley work as an assitant to Neeld?

[mjp]

MJP would Laidley work as an assitant to Neeld?

I don't know Laidley so I really have no idea...but I would think he wants to be in charge (and his record probably means he should get another shot at it).

Laidley was Malthouse's key assistant during the 2 x gf losses to the Lion's all those years ago...Neeld has filled the same role this time. In terms of being 'ready' I would just think that Laidley is ahead of where Neeldy is. That said, Mark is the best I have ever seen - in any field - at being able to eloquently get across his point in a way that is able to be clearly understood by his audience. He really does 'sell' the message to the players (and everyone else) and I suspect if he gets into 'presentation' mode with a board he will be a good shot to get the gig.

That said, he was 'out' in the first round of the PA job-hunt last year whereas Chris Scott - who apparently won over Geelong at his first meeting - went right down to the wire...so maybe his reluctance to talk himself 'up' will count against him?

[the banker]

I don't know Laidley so I really have no idea...but I would think he wants to be in charge (and his record probably means he should get another shot at it).

Laidley was Malthouse's key assistant during the 2 x gf losses to the Lion's all those years ago...Neeld has filled the same role this time. In terms of being 'ready' I would just think that Laidley is ahead of where Neeldy is. That said, Mark is the best I have ever seen - in any field - at being able to eloquently get across his point in a way that is able to be clearly understood by his audience. He really does 'sell' the message to the players (and everyone else) and I suspect if he gets into 'presentation' mode with a board he will be a good shot to get the gig.

That said, he was 'out' in the first round of the PA job-hunt last year whereas Chris Scott - who apparently won over Geelong at his first meeting - went right down to the wire...so maybe his reluctance to talk himself 'up' will count against him?

From what you have said, if the personalies worked, this could be a potent combination.

[azabob]

That said, he was 'out' in the first round of the PA job-hunt last year whereas Chris Scott - who apparently won over Geelong at his first meeting - went right down to the wire...so maybe his reluctance to talk himself 'up' will count against him?

Hopefully he has learnt from last time around, as in to talk himself up, and surely and phone call from a friend telling him to do it can't hurt?

[azabob]

I understand this is a huge appointment and the process must run its course.

Hopefully we have our committee and process well and truly figured out by the time our season ends and we can begin the interviewing right away.

On one hand I don't want the club to rush the decision, but on the other I don't want the club to muck around and possibly miss out on our preferred candidate.

[azabob]

With Leon Cameron most people believe he will be our next senior coach.

What I am interested in is wonder if Melbourne and Adelaide will approach him to interview for their coaching positions?

[Desipura]

I don't know Laidley so I really have no idea...but I would think he wants to be in charge (and his record probably means he should get another shot at it).

Laidley was Malthouse's key assistant during the 2 x gf losses to the Lion's all those years ago...Neeld has filled the same role this time. In terms of being 'ready' I would just think that Laidley is ahead of where Neeldy is. That said, Mark is the best I have ever seen - in any field - at being able to eloquently get across his point in a way that is able to be clearly understood by his audience. He really does 'sell' the message to the players (and everyone else) and I suspect if he gets into 'presentation' mode with a board he will be a good shot to get the gig.

That said, he was 'out' in the first round of the PA job-hunt last year whereas Chris Scott - who apparently won over Geelong at his first meeting - went right down to the wire...so maybe his reluctance to talk himself 'up' will count against him?

I think this is the exact reason why they will not go for Laidley, too similar to Eade. Also he is not very media savvy, in fact he is annoying!

[Remi Moses]

Laidley is way to intense for mine. I'd like Burns but not sure he's applying.
Honestly who bloody knows:confused:

[LostDoggy]

I can't remember who it was but Fox sports were saying earlier in the week that Neeld may get to choose the club he goes to and not the other way around, such a strong contender he is believed to be.

[GVGjr]

I think there are a number of good candidates however, the club is caught between appointing an inexperienced coach and being seen as watching the dollars (Neeld, Richardson etc) or appointing an experienced coach (M.Williams, Malthouse) and actually having to spend the dollars. The sub-committee has a hard job selling one of those and an even harder one financing the other option.

That's why I see the merit in what MJP is saying and that means Laidley becomes a contender.
- He has a reputation of being a good match day coach.
- He will work for a non extravagant wage just to get back to Victoria.
- He will be a far more savvy people manager this time around.

The bonus for the sub-committee with appointing someone like Laidley is that they are neither spending a fortune or from a media or fans perspective seen as penny pinching.

How should Laidley best pitch his credentials?
I'd focus on the upside of the list (like the untapped potential of Jones, Grant and Howard etc) and portray that the list imbalances can quickly be rectified. He can't be too negative or over the top but if he articulates how under his leadership the midfield will become more accountable then it can become a compelling message.

I'm not convinced he is a great candidate but I think he could be close to what they are looking for.

[Sedat]

From memory, Laidley interviewed outstandingly way back in 2002 when Rohde won the gig. He was a bit of an after-thought but impressed the Bulldogs hierarchy during the interview process.

Interesting candidate that doesn't fall in either the rookie or veteran camp.

[KT31]

Don't think Laidley would be a good option, would prefer to see a Grand final winning coach.
Not to sure when (thinking Joyce then back to Charlie) we had a coach with a flag under his belt pass his knowledge and experience onto our players and club.
Although I am not sure we have the budget for it.

[GVGjr]

Don't think Laidley would be a good option, would prefer to see a Grand final winning coach.
Not to sure when (thinking Joyce then back to Charlie) we had a coach with a flag under his belt pass his knowledge and experience onto our players and club.
Although I am not sure we have the budget for it.


What don't you like about Laidley and who is the GF coach you are thinking of?

[Ghost Dog]

North Melb supporters I talked to over the years disliked Laidly. ( The ones I talked to saw him as being aloof, and not forthcoming at social events. This doesn't reflect on his ability as a coach mind you.

Don't want anyone from Port coaching our club thanks very much.

[GVGjr]

North Melb supporters I talked to over the years disliked Laidly. ( The ones I talked to saw him as being aloof, and not forthcoming at social events. This doesn't reflect on his ability as a coach mind you

Should be better the 2nd time around though. He will heave learned a lot of lesson how to better project himself to the fans and the media.

[ledge]

North Melb supporters I talked to over the years disliked Laidly. ( The ones I talked to saw him as being aloof, and not forthcoming at social events. This doesn't reflect on his ability as a coach mind you.

Don't want anyone from Port coaching our club thanks very much.

You say a reason why you dont think he should be a coach but then reply with it doesnt reflect on his coaching abillity?:confused:

[KT31]

What don't you like about Laidley and who is the GF coach you are thinking of?

May just be his demeanour, but think he tended to make some irrational decisions when under pressure, I also had a couple of mates tied up with Port when he coached North and they have mentioned a couple of things to me.
Its unrealistic to have a grand final winning coach but think Malthouse would be a nice fit.

[ledge]

Must say when MM was coaching us i had contact with him once a week and he was quite distant and abrupt to me, and he is a great coach as we know.
In saying that I dont think it was meant that way its just the way he is.

[Maddog37]

There is something about picking up a discard from Norf that just doesn't sit well with me. He would not be my first choice.

[ledge]

In all this speculation I think the number 1 criteria should be he keeps WOOF informed and takes advice from us know alls!

[azabob]

Reported in the AGE today that Adelaide are already starting interviewing potential candidates this weekend!

As I said yesterday I hope we sort out stuff sooner rather than later so we don't get left behind.

[boydogs]

Thoughts on Brenton Sanderson?

Geelong's performance this year under a rookie coach makes me think they are coaching themselves, which perhaps means the performance of the assistants is being overvalued.

Alternately, Sanderson has been the constant in the transition from Thompson to Scott - is he the one keeping them up there?

[Mofra]

Geelong's performance this year under a rookie coach makes me think they are coaching themselves, which perhaps means the performance of the assistants is being overvalued.
I would have thought it indicates the opposite - a rookie coach who has strong, experienced assistants around him.

I really have no idea what assistants are like on and off the field, how much responsibility each has at their respective clubs, or what sort of coach our playing group responds best to - voting on the best candidate is largely pissing into the wind.

I would vote for anyone but Malthouse if it were an option, as we'd stuff ourselves up financially for decades if we were to meet the financial demands of getting Malthouse (including payout to Collingwood) in 2012

[LostDoggy]

I would vote for anyone but Malthouse if it were an option, as we'd stuff ourselves up financially for decades if we were to meet the financial demands of getting Malthouse (including payout to Collingwood) in 2012

I'm no expert in these things, but wouldn't having a coach like Malthouse generate financial benefits? In sponsors, increased membership etc???

[1eyedog]

Don't think Laidley would be a good option, would prefer to see a Grand final winning coach.
Not to sure when (thinking Joyce then back to Charlie) we had a coach with a flag under his belt pass his knowledge and experience onto our players and club.
Although I am not sure we have the budget for it.

Join the club.

But seriously, who is there that fits this category? Malthouse is not coming over can everyone get it? As an aside he had 10 years at the richest club in Australia prior to winning a flag. He does not have the Midas touch.

So who else is there? Thompson? Forget it, what about Roos? I seriously doubt it, Pagan maybe?

Who else could you possibly be thinking about to fill this role?

[LostDoggy]

Scott West really wants this job. Was wearing a pair of glasses today to look smarter.

[bornadog]

Interesting to see Simon Garlick in the coaches box today to get a first hand view on Williams coaching.

[azabob]

Interesting to see Simon Garlick in the coaches box today to get a first hand view on Williams coaching.

I think Fantasia was also next to Garlick.

Perhaps Fantasia could do a Grant Thomas and higher himself!

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Scott West really wants this job. Was wearing a pair of glasses today to look smarter.

:D I noticed that too. Brian Royal take note.

[Mofra]

I'm no expert in these things, but wouldn't having a coach like Malthouse generate financial benefits? In sponsors, increased membership etc???
In year one (rumoured) we'd match a $900k+ salary plus payout his first year position at Collingwood of $1m-$1.1m.

Is Malthouse worth that much in additional sponsership & revenue, considering we had 6,000 members not renew this year after 3 consecutive prelims, and we missed the finals this year? I would think we'd be crazy to mortgage the club for a coach who left us previously in acrimonious circumstances.

[LostDoggy]

In year one (rumoured) we'd match a $900k+ salary plus payout his first year position at Collingwood of $1m-$1.1m.

Is Malthouse worth that much in additional sponsership & revenue, considering we had 6,000 members not renew this year after 3 consecutive prelims, and we missed the finals this year? I would think we'd be crazy to mortgage the club for a coach who left us previously in acrimonious circumstances.

True, it is a massive deficit to make up. But I think 1ED sums it up below.



Malthouse is not coming over can everyone get it?

[LostDoggy]

According to Gerard Whateley, our coaching subcommittee began its final interviews yesterday and shall conclude them on Saturday.

The committee should make its recommendation to the Board on Saturday night.

It shouldn't take too much longer for the Board to approve the decision.

It's hard to speculate on our next coach as we don't know what's being said in the interview process, but the likes of Cameron, Sanderson, Neeld and Burns all appeal to me.

The mistake would be signing Bomber Thompson's pet, Brendan McCartney. No, more than a mistake. It would be an absolute disaster.

He's too old, he's never played the game at senior level and his rise through the assistant ranks has been too heavily influenced by one man. He may well be a great assistant coach, but that's as high as his career can take him.

Mark Robinson keeps hinting that McCartney's name is in contention for a senior coaching role and, frankly, it scares the shit out of me that it could be us.

Chris Scott had the respect of his players on day one because he'd been there and done it, not because he'd spent time in Mark Harvey's coaching box at Fremantle.

To suggest that a guy whose playing career peaked while farting around in the Geelong Football League in the late 1980s could be a senior AFL coach in 2012 is beyond a joke.

Surely our club isn't that stupid?

[LostDoggy]

Why is senior afl playing experience essential? It's coaching not playing. Why should the players only respect past players as well? There are plenty of good coaches in world sport that didn't play at the highest level.

[Maddog37]

If you watch the youtube clip from the Bombers TV the one thing that struck me was the way Wellman instantly deferred to McCartney when the questions started. He carries himself like a senior coach.

[LostDoggy]

Why is senior afl playing experience essential?




Since we joined the league in 1925, there has never been a Premiership team coached by a man without senior playing experience.

Not one.

That's not a coincidence.

McCartney wasn't forging a career in one of the State leagues either. He was running around in the GFL in the late eighties before retiring in his mid twenties.

He's too old and too inexperienced. As he's never actually played under an AFL coach; too much of his football knowledge has been derived from Bomber Thompson.

Sanderson worked for Bomber too, but also worked with Scott and Williams and played under Cornes, Matthews, Ayres and Thompson. He's also experienced the same situations that his players have over his two hundred game career.

The difference between the two is enormous.

[LostDoggy]

He carries himself like a senior coach.




But he's not qualified to be a senior coach.

[always right]

I like Neeld's glasses...clearly intelligent.

I also like McCartney....although since he left Wings his material has been crap.

Sorry.....dad jokes.

[The Underdog]

I like Neeld's glasses...clearly intelligent.

I also like McCartney....although since he left Wings his material has been crap.

Sorry.....dad jokes.

Ah, Wings, the band the Beatles could have been...

[LostDoggy]

Since we joined the league in 1925, there has never been a Premiership team coached by a man without senior playing experience.

Not one.

That's not a coincidence.


Actually, all that proves is that footy is a closed shop cottage industry that trusts in tradition more than fact, not that the best coaches must have played AFL -- after all, it's not like there's a control group of non-AFL coaches that have tried and failed in the AFL, right?

I'm not talking specifically about McCartney -- wouldn't know him from a bar of soap, and am not pushing his case at all -- but the view that you talk about above prevailed in plenty of professional sports for years and years too. Only in the last 20 years has this view been eroded in sports like NFL, NBA, and international soccer, especially as these coaches without experience at the highest level have proven to be incredibly successful.

The AFL has always been a couple of steps behind in terms of cultural innovation (not a criticism, mind you, just a reality), so it's no surprise that we haven't yet had a senior coach without AFL experience. It's just a matter of time before that happens though. Just as the best players rarely make the best coaches (so your point of players having to 'respect' the coach, which they would when it's a former star player, seems relatively unconnected to whether they end up being a good coach), so the corollary, that the best coaches are rarely the best players (and may not have played AFL), must also be true.

It's a totally different skillset, and plenty of the latest sports science research is showing that the skills gained from playing experience are only peripherally important in providing a potential coach with the skills required to be a successful modern coach (which are more to do with time management, communication, creativity, conceptual skills, psychology, reputation building, team building and motivation, especially in dealing with youth).

[The Coon Dog]

A couple of tweets by Mark Stevens:

@StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens
Dogs unfazed by Neeld coming out of mix. Extremely impressed with several candidates.

&

@StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens
Shortlist for Dogs believed to include: Cameron, Hinkley, McCartney ... Williams and Montgomery

[chef]

A couple of tweets by Mark Stevens:

@StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens
Dogs unfazed by Neeld coming out of mix. Extremely impressed with several candidates.

&

@StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens
Shortlist for Dogs believed to include: Cameron, Hinkley, McCartney ... Williams and Montgomery

:eek:Really?

[the banker]

A couple of tweets by Mark Stevens:

@StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens
Dogs unfazed by Neeld coming out of mix. Extremely impressed with several candidates.

&

@StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens
Shortlist for Dogs believed to include: Cameron, Hinkley, McCartney ... Williams and Montgomery

anyone else at Geelong that Harley thinks we should consider = Hinkley a forgotten man.

[Desipura]

A couple of tweets by Mark Stevens:

@StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens
Dogs unfazed by Neeld coming out of mix. Extremely impressed with several candidates.

&

@StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens
Shortlist for Dogs believed to include: Cameron, Hinkley, McCartney ... Williams and Montgomery

What a joke that Monty is on the shortlist. Lake won't be there if he got the gig. I'm finding it harder to justify a lot of the decisions that have been made.

[Templeton31]

FWIW BT said on 3AW that dogs were extremely impressed with McCartneys presentation.

[LostDoggy]

Actually, all that proves is that footy is a closed shop cottage industry that trusts in tradition more than fact, not that the best coaches must have played AFL -- after all, it's not like there's a control group of non-AFL coaches that have tried and failed in the AFL, right?




That trusts in tradition more than fact?

What fact?

That there are coaches primed and ready to lead teams to Premiership success who haven't played the game because they possess a host of other skills that make up for their lack of experience?

That's not fact. That's supposition.

The fact is that every Premiership team in more than 90 years has been coached by a man with senior football experience.

When selecting our next coach, I'd prefer our committee to focus on the empirical evidence rather than theories out of sports science or the goings on in other sports.

Let another team enter that brave new world. Aussie Rules is hard to coach and I'd like our next coach to have the best background in the game available, and that involves playing it at the highest level.






Just as the best players rarely make the best coaches (so your point of players having to 'respect' the coach, which they would when it's a former star player, seems relatively unconnected to whether they end up being a good coach), so the corollary, that the best coaches are rarely the best players (and may not have played AFL), must also be true.




Two things on the sentence above:

1. The respect a player has for a coach who has played the game has less to do with how good a player the coach was and more to do with the coach having been in the same situation and learnt from his experiences. Ugly back pockets have done quite well in the coaching game.

2. Huh?


On a side note, how many managers have dominated international soccer in the past twenty years without playing professionally beforehand? The Special One comes to mind, but I can't think of too many who haven't played professionally somewhere.

Same question for the NFL? I know a lot of their coaches playing careers ended at College level, but that's not exactly a 2nd tier competition (or 4th tier where McCartney's concerned) like our state leagues are compared to our seniors.

[LostDoggy]

Villas-Boas, Chelsea's coach, doesn't have playing experience at ANY level.

Roy Hodgson was a youth player at Crystal Palace but never made it professionally.

I don't want any old coach coming to the Dogs either, but if there's a guy who has done a great apprenticeship and has coaching success at every level, there's every chance he's going to be a pretty good coach. Certainly as good as a Tim Watson or a Voss! Haha.

I'm just talking about the principle of it, not specifically for this appointment. I mentioned that in my post -- it was never specifically about McCartney, who as I said, I don't know and don't particularly want. (I want Neeldy or Burns.)

[Ghost Dog]

Villas-Boas, Chelsea's coach, doesn't have playing experience at ANY level.

Roy Hodgson was a youth player at Crystal Palace but never made it professionally.

I don't want any old coach coming to the Dogs either, but if there's a guy who has done a great apprenticeship and has coaching success at every level, there's every chance he's going to be a pretty good coach. Certainly as good as a Tim Watson or a Voss! Haha.

I'm just talking about the principle of it, not specifically for this appointment. I mentioned that in my post -- it was never specifically about McCartney, who as I said, I don't know and don't particularly want. (I want Neeldy or Burns.)

Well, Neeld is gone.

[Remi Moses]

I'm sorry but we need someone who's played ( no disrespect ) still reckon Leon's a certainty.
Wouldn't mind seeing Harvey as an assistant under Cameron or even Laidley.

[NoParkingOnMatchDays]

Interesting that as part of the selection process that coaches are rated on all different skill sets with coaching ability worth about 20% of the total package

[LongWait]

Interesting that as part of the selection process that coaches are rated on all different skill sets with coaching ability worth about 20% of the total package

How do you know what the selection criterion are for the Bulldogs job and how do you define "coaching ability"?

[LostDoggy]

Completely disagree with those that state previous afl playing experience is a must. We need the best coach not the best former player, McCartney is a beauty and if we go that way we will have a wonderful stragizer and teacher of the game that has had success follow him for a reason.

[G-Mo77]

What a joke that Monty is on the shortlist. Lake won't be there if he got the gig. I'm finding it harder to justify a lot of the decisions that have been made.

You shouldn't change your decision because a certain player won't like him. If Monty is the best candidate and a player has a problem with it then send him packing.

I do agree that Monty on the shortlist is a joke, same goes with Paul Williams.

[LostDoggy]

I think we're all a little scarred from the Rohde debacle and hence a little nervous about this one. Rocket was a proven coach so it was easy, however it looks like we will almost certainly get someone without senior coaching experience this time around.

[bornadog]

Completely disagree with those that state previous afl playing experience is a must. We need the best coach not the best former player, McCartney is a beauty and if we go that way we will have a wonderful stragizer and teacher of the game that has had success follow him for a reason.

How many AFL games did Neil Craig play? I agree we want the best coach.

[ledge]

How many AFL games did Neil Craig play? I agree we want the best coach.

Would you call Craig a succesful coach?

[bornadog]

Would you call Craig a succesful coach?

Depends on what you call successful. Craig coached from 2003 to 2011 and had a winning record of 55.42% with 92 wins and 74 losses, 3 finals wins and 6 losses including 2 prelims

[LostDoggy]

How many AFL games did Neil Craig play?




None.

He played 319 games in the SANFL and played for South Australia eleven times.

He was ultimately unsuccessful at Adelaide.

His playing experience is vast compared to McCartney's years in the Geelong Football League in the 1980s.

[1eyedog]

When will we make a decision?

[bornadog]

When will we make a decision?

Monday?

[LostDoggy]

None.

He played 319 games in the SANFL and played for South Australia eleven times.

He was ultimately unsuccessful at Adelaide.

His playing experience is vast compared to McCartney's years in the Geelong Football League in the 1980s.

Again you are talking about playing not coaching.
In soccer coaches like Jose Mourinho, Guus Hiddink and Arrigio Sacchi are all champion coaches with little, poor or no playing experience at the highest level. Sure there are plenty of others in many sports.

[LostDoggy]

From wikipedia
Sacchi never played football professionally, and before becoming a coach he was a shoe salesman. This led to his famous quote to the ones that questioned his qualifications: "I never realised that in order to become a jockey you have to have been a horse first".

He went on to win Italian, european and intercontineal championships Missed a World Cup title on penalties.

[LostDoggy]

Completely disagree with those that state previous afl playing experience is a must. We need the best coach not the best former player, McCartney is a beauty and if we go that way we will have a wonderful stragizer and teacher of the game that has had success follow him for a reason.




Success follows him?

Ocean Grove bought him some Premierships in the mid 90s. There are a lot of successful country coaches out there.

He then scored a job under the Geish at Richmond after kissing his arse repeatedly while he worked in Geelong.

Not much success at Richmond (the reserves finished 4th and 6th) but he did enough to score a job at Geelong when Bomber took the helm.

Seven years later, Geelong won the flag and then won another one a couple of years after that.

Thompson then had him signed as an assistant at Essendon.

I think success follows Bomber Thompson a little more than it follows Brendan McCartney.

Whilst he has been a terrific assistant coach, he lacks the right experience to work as a senior coach. His entire AFL experience has been derived from Bomber Thompson. He isn't well rounded enough to perform the tasks we'd need him to.

Compare his experience to Leon Cameron's (I did Sanderson yesterday). Leon played 250 games under Wheeler, Joyce, Wallace and Frawley and coached under Eade and Clarkson.

That's the sort of background required for the role.

[EasternWest]

From wikipedia
Sacchi never played football professionally, and before becoming a coach he was a shoe salesman. This led to his famous quote to the ones that questioned his qualifications: "I never realised that in order to become a jockey you have to have been a horse first".

He went on to win Italian, european and intercontineal championships Missed a World Cup title on penalties.

Heh. That's a great quote. Imagine how sick he must be of hearing the question that led to it.

[LostDoggy]

Again you are talking about playing not coaching.




Not much gets by you, Chops!

When I answer the question, 'How many AFL games did Neil Craig play?', I most certainly am talking about playing not coaching.

As for the wider conversation, I think a few of us had interesting things to say in this thread yesterday about whether playing experience is essential for an AFL senior coach.

I'm not sure if you read it.

I'll say again; when selecting our next coach, I'd prefer our committee to focus on the empirical evidence rather than theories out of sports science or the goings on in other sports.

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/mccartney-the-selfmade-coach-20110430-1e25z.html

Good article on Brendan McCartney.

[LostDoggy]

Good article on Brendan McCartney.





I'd forgotten that he walked out on his contract at Geelong after only recently signing for a further three years. He really likes to be close to Bomber.

Maybe he can be a senior coach after all.

Walking out on contracts is in vogue right now.

[Hotdog60]

Sounds like he won't take crap so maybe a strong influence that the dogs need.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure I am convinced about a bloke that doesnt have any AFL playing experience though.

[Bulldog Revolution]

There seem to me to be 3 viable options

1) Cameron

2) McCartney

3) McCartney and Sanderson

[LostDoggy]

Not sure I am convinced about a bloke that doesnt have any AFL playing experience though.

I'd be worried if we want him to play but we want him to coach.

[LongWait]

I'd be worried if we want him to play but we want him to coach.

Agree. I don't see his lack of AFL playing experience as a major problem.

[1eyedog]

Monday?

Really? Was that a set date or are we simply in a position now to decide do you know?

[GVGjr]

Agree. I don't see his lack of AFL playing experience as a major problem.

He's been around the system for ages so it's no barrier

[Rocco Jones]

I don't want to take this on too much of a sociological tangent but Australian society is very risk free/conservative/moderate. Despite being well and truly a leftie I don't mean that as an insult, it's helped make us so stable/secure.

Other sports in other countries, particularly have no issues with coaches with no playing experience. I think footy reflects our country a bit and we will only go down that path once it's super clear from other codes which I believe it is now with some fantastic non-playing background coaches in soccer.

Teaching is an example I like to use (as with everything!). You don't need to be a genius in your field to teach others, in fact often it is destructive as it comes so natural you don't understand how it's learnt. The best teachers are those who have adequate knowledge as a base but importantly the ability to understand how different people learn.

[LostDoggy]

Great post Rocco.

However, all this discussion is pointless anyway.

The entire process was fait accompli. It's Leon's job to lose, which, since we were never in with a chance with either Neeld or Burns (clearly superior choices if we're looking for a 'change', confirmed by Adelaide and Melbourne snapping them up quicksmart -- were either of them even interested in Leon?), is probably the best outcome we could have hoped for.

We're the opposite of what Freo have done. Instead of accelerating process in order to move quickly on an unexpected choice, we've gone through a sham of a process at glacial speed to confirm a predictable outcome everyone knew weeks ago.

[Remi Moses]

Good Grief Leon's $1.16 :eek:
Hope people on here Give Cameron a chance,as nobody could ascertain whether it's a good selection or not.

[LostDoggy]

Good Grief Leon's $1.16 :eek:
Hope people on here Give Cameron a chance,as nobody could ascertain whether it's a good selection or not.

Opened at $1.25 so not all that surprising.

No one is saying Leon is a bad coach, but how is it a 'change'? After Smorgon's "it's Mabo, the constitution, it's the vibe" nonsense to justify getting rid of the most successful coach in our modern history, he just goes and hires that coach's old assistant?

It's not just nonsensical, it's insulting.

The problem with the terrible messaging, and the lack thereof since (how are they going to justify this?) Leon's on a hiding to nothing. If he does well everyone will just say that it's the list and Eade would have done the same (a la Thompson and Worsfold) if we hadn't gotten impatient, and if he has horrendous years as we bottom out and rebuild, his reputation would be shot and when he gets the chop he won't get another senior job.

The most likely outcome is that we'll fight out 9-12th next year alongside the likes of North and Richmond, so I guess we should all get prepared for half a decade of 'meh'-ness along with North supporters.

[GVGjr]

No one is saying Leon is a bad coach, but how is it a 'change'? After Smorgon's "it's Mabo, the constitution, it's the vibe" nonsense to justify getting rid of the most successful coach in our modern history, he just goes and hires that coach's old assistant?



I think most people respect Leon but getting rid of Eade and replacing him with Cameron isn't a big change at all and it's not evident how that will be an improvement on what we previously had.

My concerns are:
- He's only had 12 months away from us so I doubt he's improved that much at the Hawks
- He's an average communicator who might struggle to represent the club that well with the media, sponsors, the coteries and the fans and we really need the coach to be strong in this area as well.
- He's not a new voice to the playing group which I now feel they need.

These can be addressed by putting other people into support roles but I wonder if we will.

[bornadog]

I think most people respect Leon but getting rid of Eade and replacing him with Cameron isn't a big change at all and it's not evident how that will be an improvement on what we previously had.

My concerns are:
- He's only had 12 months away from us so I doubt he's improved that much at the Hawks
- He's an average communicator who might struggle to represent the club that well with the media, sponsors, the coteries and the fans and we really need the coach to be strong in this area as well.
- He's not a new voice to the playing group which I now feel they need.

These can be addressed by putting other people into support roles but I wonder if we will.

I have been told by a good source that Leon is confident in getting the job. I agree with you on your assessment, particularly his ability to communicate. Our last two coaches were good at communicating with the media and we have been rarely out of the news (all good stuff written about our players and the club)

[LongWait]

Good Grief Leon's $1.16 :eek:
Hope people on here Give Cameron a chance,as nobody could ascertain whether it's a good selection or not.

It doesn't appear that the Eade devotees will give the new coach any slack no matter who they are.

[GVGjr]

It doesn't appear that the Eade devotees will give the new coach any slack no matter who they are.

I can't see anything in the thread to suggest that your comment is accurate.
What are you basing that on?

[Ghost Dog]

Opened at $1.25 so not all that surprising.

No one is saying Leon is a bad coach, but how is it a 'change'? After Smorgon's "it's Mabo, the constitution, it's the vibe" nonsense to justify getting rid of the most successful coach in our modern history, he just goes and hires that coach's old assistant?

It's not just nonsensical, it's insulting.

The problem with the terrible messaging, and the lack thereof since (how are they going to justify this?) Leon's on a hiding to nothing. If he does well everyone will just say that it's the list and Eade would have done the same (a la Thompson and Worsfold) if we hadn't gotten impatient, and if he has horrendous years as we bottom out and rebuild, his reputation would be shot and when he gets the chop he won't get another senior job.

The most likely outcome is that we'll fight out 9-12th next year alongside the likes of North and Richmond, so I guess we should all get prepared for half a decade of 'meh'-ness along with North supporters.

The VIBE indeed. Why was Eade Sacked? It was his 'vibe'. Absolute joke unless they bite the bullet and take a gamble on an outsider from the club or at least Someone who can bring something new to the table.

[Desipura]

I think most people respect Leon but getting rid of Eade and replacing him with Cameron isn't a big change at all and it's not evident how that will be an improvement on what we previously had.

My concerns are:
- He's only had 12 months away from us so I doubt he's improved that much at the Hawks
- He's an average communicator who might struggle to represent the club that well with the media, sponsors, the coteries and the fans and we really need the coach to be strong in this area as well.
- He's not a new voice to the playing group which I now feel they need.

These can be addressed by putting other people into support roles but I wonder if we will.

I am told he communicates well with the players which is equally as important. If he can get the players to play for him, that is a good start.
Also a more modern game is something he may be able to provide as opposed to Eade .

[GVGjr]

I am told he communicates well with the players which is equally as important. If he can get the players to play for him, that is a good start.
Also a more modern game is something he may be able to provide as opposed to Eade .

He had a big say in the game plan at the Dogs and I wonder if 12 months away will give him a better overview or not. As for being good with the players, I've heard the same but I wonder if our group now needs a new voice. I'd almost bet on the fact that he has the job but I still think Cameron for Eade isn't a big change.

[Desipura]

He had a big say in the game plan at the Dogs and I wonder if 12 months away will give him a better overview or not. As for being good with the players, I've heard the same but I wonder if our group now needs a new voice. I'd almost bet on the fact that he has the job but I still think Cameron for Eade isn't a big change.

Being an Assistant, you are basically working within the requirements that the coach has implemented, ie Rocket says I want this style," go away and work out the best way of playing this style".
Leon may have a totally different game plan when/ if he is appointed coach.

[Pickenitup]

I have seen first hand Leon in Action and he is very impressive very hard and gets his point acroos.
I think he speaks quite well so from a media side of things i cant see that as being a issue.
Longmire at Sydney has seemed to work okay so i dont see why people thinnk Eade for Cameron isnt going to be a Good refresh.

[LongWait]

I can't see anything in the thread to suggest that your comment is accurate.
What are you basing that on?

I know you can't. Perhaps that is the point.

[ledge]

I am a big Eade fan and sad to see him go but thats footy and I will be behind our next coach, its what happens as our coach in the coming years that will say if he is good or bad.

[AndrewP6]

I have seen first hand Leon in Action and he is very impressive very hard and gets his point acroos.
I think he speaks quite well so from a media side of things i cant see that as being a issue.
Longmire at Sydney has seemed to work okay so i dont see why people thinnk Eade for Cameron isnt going to be a Good refresh.

Because he's only been away a year and was with us for a stretch before that

[Bulldog Revolution]

I don't have a problem if its Cameron but I'd be more pleased if he was flanked by Neil Craig as a senior assistant, and or some other high profile senior assistant

I just worry that if the only football department change we make is Cameron then we aren't going to fix the problems and improve

Im not concerned if Cameron is not an instant media superstar, my take is that coaches develop those skills over time

[NoParkingOnMatchDays]

He struggles to articulate ideas well in a presentation. Sadly if you are the best coach, tactician, media performer etc but can't push the mouse at the right time and your PowerPoint is a bit dodgy you will be passed over.

[bornadog]

I know you can't. Perhaps that is the point.

I think your wrong there and you are not getting the point. Some of us want a fresh start ie an outsider who has been an assistant with a successful club and knows nothing about our club.

Sanderson, Burns, Hinkley, McCartney all are highly respected, as is Leon. Leon is too close to us and has only been away 12 months or so.

[bornadog]

Really? Was that a set date or are we simply in a position now to decide do you know?

I heard we were close to a decision, so I was guessing. Smorgon got married yesterday so he may be off on a honeymoon and may have already met with the board, but who knows.

[Topdog]

I know you can't. Perhaps that is the point.

Well how about you show us some examples Mr. sanctimonious

[LostDoggy]

I know you can't. Perhaps that is the point.

?????

[mjp]

The person who can do this is the person who I want:

http://www.sportscoachingbrain.com/creative-coaching-teaching-coaches-to-be-creative-and-innovative/

[Topdog]

Opened at $1.25 so not all that surprising.

No one is saying Leon is a bad coach, but how is it a 'change'? After Smorgon's "it's Mabo, the constitution, it's the vibe" nonsense to justify getting rid of the most successful coach in our modern history, he just goes and hires that coach's old assistant?

It's not just nonsensical, it's insulting.

The only thing that is swaying me from this line of thought is that I don't believe Grant and Harley would be a part of a sham process. I think both men have too much integrity for it.

I hope I am right.

[The Underdog]

The only thing that is swaying me from this line of thought is that I don't believe Grant and Harley would be a part of a sham process. I think both men have too much integrity for it.

I hope I am right.

This is what has been keeping me going. Whateley was adamant the process is real and he works closely with Grant.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Do others think we might surprise and hire Brendan McCartney?

[GVGjr]

Do others think we might surprise and hire Brendan McCartney?

He would have to be the 2nd guy on the list. It would be a surprise given Leon has always seemed to be the front runner.

[LostDoggy]

He would have to be the 2nd guy on the list.




Why would he be in front of Sanderson and Hinkley?

Both shared the same experiences at Geelong with McCartney, both have infinitely more football experience than McCartney and both have shown that they can continue to play successful roles at football clubs away from Bomber's loving embrace.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Why would he be in front of Sanderson and Hinkley?

Both shared the same experiences at Geelong with McCartney, both have infinitely more football experience than McCartney and both have shown that they can continue to play successful roles at football clubs away from Bomber's loving embrace.

Out of interest Rocket, who would be your preferred choice?

Would you rather Cameron or McCartney?

Hopefully we find out in the next few days.

[LostDoggy]

Out of interest Rocket, who would be your preferred choice?

Would you rather Cameron or McCartney?




Cameron over McCartney without a doubt.

McCartney has a first class reputation as an assistant coach, but he doesn't have the experience required to be our senior coach. His resume just doesn't tick enough boxes.

He's never played under a senior coach and has only worked under one in the last eleven years in the industry. I don't think that that's enough. I'd prefer a wealth of knowledge obtained from a number of sources so our coach is more rounded when the times get tough.

He committed to Geelong for three years and could have grown under Chris Scott but chose to walk on his contract to stay with Bomber. I'm not crazy about that either.

The idea of the untried coach who played in the GFL in the late 80s is appealing to some, but it isn't to me. It's a difficult game to coach and I'd like someone significantly more experienced.

Cameron, Sanderon, Burns and Hinkley all fit the bill better. I'd be happy for any of them to be appointed by the subcommittee if they prove to be the best man for the job. I just don't want McCartney.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Rumour has it that Leon Cameron will be announced as coach THIS AFTERNOON!!!!

[kruder]

Rumour has it that Leon Cameron will be announced as coach THIS AFTERNOON!!!!

McCartney is the new bulldogs coach!

[The Pie Man]

McCartney is the new bulldogs coach!

The Age claiming this

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/mccartney-to-coach-bulldogs-20110919-1kgs2.html

[Doc26]

McCartney is the new bulldogs coach!


The Age claiming this

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/mccartney-to-coach-bulldogs-20110919-1kgs2.html

Mark Robinson has also just posted up a tweet suggesting McCartney's appointment.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs holding presser 1.10pm to announce coach..

How left field. Wow.

[Prince Imperial]

Just tweeted by the club. Press conference at 1pm to announce our new senior coach!

[Murphy'sLore]

Crikey. Didn't see that one coming.

Well, good luck to him.

[Grantysghost]

Must of been impressive to beat the unbackable Cameron. Maybe it came down Tom Harley being a better salesman then Chris Grant ! :D

Im happy with this decision if true.

[whythelongface]

Wow. Interesting. That decision is certainly out of left field.

[Doc26]

Wow. Interesting. That decision is certainly out of left field.

Didn't make the option list within this poll thread, maybe he represents the 'Other'.

[bornadog]

When will we make a decision?


Monday?

Nice one:D

[LostDoggy]

The person who can do this is the person who I want:

http://www.sportscoachingbrain.com/creative-coaching-teaching-coaches-to-be-creative-and-innovative/

This. I put creativity high on my list of skills that simply has to be in a coaches' skillset -- with constant change you can't legislate for set skills, and creativity is the one skill that is a game-changer and is also a meta-skill, one that kind of underpins the other important requirements can also allow a coach to constantly upgrade their other skills (like 'communication' is a skill, but creativity will allow a coach to regularly upgrade or change their communcation styles to suit new environments etc.)

[1eyedog]

Nice one:D

Yep, I thought the same thing when I saw the thread go up today. Well done. I picked Harvey about 4 weeks out, maybe you should read fortunes? ;)

[Bulldog Revolution]

I had a feeling yesterday we might go with McCartney, and it largely was caused by us not seeming more annoyed about Neeld being signed by the Dees on Friday.

Neeld seemed to me the type of coach we should be looking to hire, and McCartney is cut from a similar cloth.

[soupman]

Rumour has it that Leon Cameron will be announced as coach THIS AFTERNOON!!!!

In hindsight this post is hilarious.

[Bulldog Revolution]

In hindsight this post is hilarious.

May have been started by the betting agencies, they will have made a fortune off Cameron not getting the job

[ledge]

McCartney didnt even get a mention in the poll so what do any of us know?

[Prince Imperial]

May have been started by the betting agencies, they will have made a fortune off Cameron not getting the job

Some guy rang up KB on SEN this morning and said he knew someone from Leon's family and that he would be appointed this afternoon. I'm guessing the poster was reporting this. Talk about a bum steer!

[bornadog]

Some guy rang up KB on SEN this morning and said he knew someone from Leon's family and that he would be appointed this afternoon. I'm guessing the poster was reporting this. Talk about a bum steer!

Leon had an interview yesterday and was very confident in getting the job and very close. Unfortunately for him, McCartney presented better.