C.Grant and T.Harley on Selection Panel

[LongWait]

Mark Stevens has tweeted that Harley and Grant will be on the panel to select our new coach.

Grant to give the royal assent and Harley to ensure we get a Gen X coach?

[The Underdog]

Mark Stevens has tweeted that Harley and Grant will be on the panel to select our new coach.

Grant to give the royal assent and Harley to ensure we get a Gen X coach rather than a grandfather.

Or to ensure the new coach is taking a balanced mix of multivitamins.

[Ghost Dog]

Or to ensure the new coach is taking a balanced mix of multivitamins.

A friend of mine started taking those. a huge rugby player type from QLD. He reckons he
started getting emotional all the time, crying in movies and what not. :D

[azabob]

Or to ensure the new coach is taking a balanced mix of multivitamins.

Or can do good voice overs for when doing the match review.

[Go_Dogs]

Or can do good voice overs for when doing the match review.

Harley to appoint himself as coach, just so he can do this? :D


Not a bad call to get these guys involved in the process, and a good opportunity for them both to showcase their footy acumen.

[LostDoggy]

Or to ensure the new coach is taking a balanced mix of multivitamins.

Very good! :D

On that front, it's a weird suit he has on during that commercial (too long in the sides), and with the Hunt slo-mo in the background and the emotional musical track, just doesn't look or feel right.

[LostDoggy]

Harley to appoint himself as coach, just so he can do this? :D


Interesting one -- I know you're joking, but seriously, how WOULD Harley go as a coach? Has he ever shown an inclination to do this? Seems to be too nice a guy somehow.

[LostDoggy]

Mark Stevens has tweeted that Harley and Grant will be on the panel to select our new coach.

Grant to give the royal assent and Harley to ensure we get a Gen X coach?




Both add credibility to the process.

They are well respected, know the game better than most, and are men of honour.

Neither would serve as a rubber stamp to quickly appoint the CEO's favourite and neither would be party to a sham where the decision had been made prior to the process commencing (as Essendon did to Mark Williams and Dean Laidley last year).

This is good news.

Brian Taylor asked why assistant coaches would apply for the role if they thought that Leon Cameron was a shoe in. Now the football world knows that we'll be considering everyone on their merit.

I have faith that they'll find someone good.

[Go_Dogs]

Interesting one -- I know you're joking, but seriously, how WOULD Harley go as a coach? Has he ever shown an inclination to do this? Seems to be too nice a guy somehow.

It's an interesting one. Would have no idea if he is interested in one day throwing his hat in the ring, but he seems fairly comfortable doing his media thing at the moment.

[LongWait]

Both add credibility to the process.

They are well respected, know the game better than most, and are men of honour.

Neither would serve as a rubber stamp to quickly appoint the CEO's favourite and neither would be party to a sham where the decision had been made prior to the process commencing (as Essendon did to Mark Williams and Dean Laidley last year).

This is good news.

Brian Taylor asked why assistant coaches would apply for the role if they thought that Leon Cameron was a shoe in. Now the football world knows that we'll be considering everyone on their merit.

I have faith that they'll find someone good.

Agree with all you've said here The Rocket - masterstroke by the club getting Grant and Harley involved.

[immortalmike]

Happy with Grant. I'm not too sure about Harley, seems to think he knows more than he actually does.

[chef]

Interesting one -- I know you're joking, but seriously, how WOULD Harley go as a coach? Has he ever shown an inclination to do this? Seems to be too nice a guy somehow.

Isn't he going to be an assistant up at GWS next year?

[Dry Rot]

What coaching experience have Grant and Harley had? Seems a bit odd to me.

[westdog54]

What coaching experience have Grant and Harley had? Seems a bit odd to me.

I think its worth pursuing a 'player's' perspective, and the most effective way to do this is to bring in experienced and respected players who've had a number of past coaches between them.

[Ghost Dog]

I think its worth pursuing a 'player's' perspective, and the most effective way to do this is to bring in experienced and respected players who've had a number of past coaches between them.

However, to a degree, these players are going to lack a certain amount of perspective regarding ' behind the scenes' aspect of coaching
Perhaps, like hiring a teacher by asking the students.
Populist choice to generate media attention?


But. it's a different idea, and any plan is better than no plan. Go dogs!

[Mantis]

It still bugs me that we didn't use 'external' resources on our 'internal' review of our former coach.

It still doesn't make sense.

[LostDoggy]

However, these players totally lack the perspective from behind the scenes.
Like hiring a teacher by asking the students.
Populist!

I'd be happy to pay a finders fee to get Lethal Leigh involved. There's an opinion that would be worth having. Happy to have Grant as well - measured voice on that man.

[Rocco Jones]

It still bugs me that we didn't use 'external' resources on our 'internal' review of our former coach.

It still doesn't make sense.

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point however internally we would know a lot more about how Eade was performing as coach then we would about how the potential candidates ability to fill the role.

[GVGjr]

It still bugs me that we didn't use 'external' resources on our 'internal' review of our former coach.

It still doesn't make sense.

Smorgon seemed to indicate that the decision was brought forward due to Eade's manager request and that was why it was outside of the process. The fact that the sub-committee members for the next phase hadn't even been finalised highlights to me that we brought it right forward.
What was the reason for decision remains a bit of a mystery but the presentation Eade gave during their workshop must not have been close to what they were hoping for.

[LongWait]

It still bugs me that we didn't use 'external' resources on our 'internal' review of our former coach.

It still doesn't make sense.

I didn't need an external consultant to come to the conclusion that Rocket's time was up. I expect that the Board certainly saw enough of Rocket to know his strengths, weaknesses and likely approach to coaching the next few years. They obviously thought they didn't need or want the review process planned in order to responded to Rocket's "request" to tell him sooner than later whether a new contract would be offered.

[Mantis]

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point however internally we would know a lot more about how Eade was performing as coach then we would about how the potential candidates ability to fill the role.

But wouldn't the external people give the review process a fresh set of ears without the emotional attachment you get from people working with each other day after day?

What's done is done, but I am still adamant that the review process was extremely flawed.

[LongWait]

But wouldn't the external people give the review process a fresh set of ears without the emotional attachment you get from people working with each other day after day?

What's done is done, but I am still adamant that the review process was extremely flawed.

Rocket didn't want to participate in the review process - he demanded an answer from the club straight away. It was Rocket's process that was flawed - it appears he miscalculated.

[GVGjr]

Rocket didn't want to participate in the review process - he demanded an answer from the club straight away. It was Rocket's process that was flawed - it appears he miscalculated.


I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't think he miscalculated.

The club had a responsibility to follow a process and if they weren't ready then they should have provided Eade a revised time frame.
Something triggered the decision and I think it could have been a presentation that Eade made during a workshop.

[Maddog37]

I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't think he miscalculated.

The club had a responsibility to follow a process and if they weren't ready then they should have provided Eade a revised time frame.
Something triggered the decision and I think it could have been a presentation that Eade made during a workshop.

Are you thinking he was more pessimistic than the board or the other way around?

[GVGjr]

Are you thinking he was more pessimistic than the board or the other way around?

I wasn't there but he gave a presentation and then the 'decision' seemed to catch everyone by surprise.

[LongWait]

I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't think he miscalculated.

The club had a responsibility to follow a process and if they weren't ready then they should have provided Eade a revised time frame.
Something triggered the decision and I think it could have been a presentation that Eade made during a workshop.

You could well be right GVGjr - maybe one day we will get the low-down. Until then we are all speculating.

[Rocco Jones]

But wouldn't the external people give the review process a fresh set of ears without the emotional attachment you get from people working with each other day after day?

What's done is done, but I am still adamant that the review process was extremely flawed.

I think Fantasia being involved makes it automatically flawed.

[LongWait]

I think Fantasia being involved makes it automatically flawed.

Why?

[Mantis]

Why?

Because it's been reported that their working relationship wasn't all that great.

[Maddog37]

Because it's been reported that their working relationship wasn't all that great.

But Fantasia has consistently said he has the best interest of the club at heart.:rolleyes:

[ledge]

I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't think he miscalculated.

The club had a responsibility to follow a process and if they weren't ready then they should have provided Eade a revised time frame.
Something triggered the decision and I think it could have been a presentation that Eade made during a workshop.

Eades manager asked for it to be bought forward as you would with other jobs around if you dont want to shut out your options.
The club agreed and asked for the presentation it has asked for every time Eades contract has come up.
I think every thing was done right its just the decision surprised us all.
Eade always said he wanted to stay it was his first preference.
Time will tell whether it was wrong or right and what the difference in direction was as this was the explanation we were given for him not getting another contract.

In saying this the first game Williams coached and team that was picked would have been no different to Eades in my opinion.

[Topdog]

oh come on ppl is every thread on this board going to turn into the same argument I've read on 3 other threads today?

[LongWait]

Because it's been reported that their working relationship wasn't all that great.

So Fantasia is compromised and unsuitable to be involved in selecting the new coach because he didn't get on well with the old coach? :confused:

Perhaps Fantasia was right and Eade is not the best coach for us now. Radical thought I know, but there might be something to it.

[Rocco Jones]

So Fantasia is compromised and unsuitable to be involved in selecting the new coach because he didn't get on well with the old coach? :confused:

Perhaps Fantasia was right and Eade is not the best coach for us now. Radical thought I know, but there might be something to it.

Uh oh, you're in big trouble now!!

[bornadog]

So Fantasia is compromised and unsuitable to be involved in selecting the new coach because he didn't get on well with the old coach? :confused:

Perhaps Fantasia was right and Eade is not the best coach for us now. Radical thought I know, but there might be something to it.

Of course Fantasia has to be involved, wasn't he Eade's boss. You would expect that in any working environment.

Anyone would not want their CEO to go above their head and make a decision on one of their own direct reports without consultation.

[Rocco Jones]

Of course Fantasia has to be involved, wasn't he Eade's boss. You would expect that in any working environment.

Anyone would not want their CEO to go above their head and make a decision on one of their own direct reports without consultation.

Great point. I just want Fantasia out too.

[bornadog]

Great point. I just want Fantasia out too.

Lots of people on the board seem not to like Fantasia? I have no opinion on the man and just wonder why all this hatred? Yeah, so what he extended some contracts and gave DJ an extra year. We don't know the reasons behind that, but if someone can enlighten me on why he is doing a bad job? I know Eade didn't like him, but they worked together and I always suspected there was a bit or resentment there.

[1eyedog]

Very good! :D

On that front, it's a weird suit he has on during that commercial (too long in the sides), and with the Hunt slo-mo in the background and the emotional musical track, just doesn't look or feel right.

It annoys me how he always puts his fingers together, like a Jedi or something.

It weirds me out.

[Sockeye Salmon]

In saying this the first game Williams coached and team that was picked would have been no different to Eades in my opinion.

Sunday's team was picked by the MC - including both Eade and Williams - last Tuesday. We knew about Tutt and Cordy then.

[PedroArvy]

Get someone who has been where you want to go.
I would have picked a premiership coach or two.
Aren't they the guys who know best?
Players are not coaches, they would see it from their point of view.
I run a small business and asking ex-staff to pick a leader is ridiculous.
They can't possibly see the world from outside their point of view.
You need someone outside your organisation who has done it all before.

Surely Mathews is the best adviser, not too long out of the game and undisputed in terms of premierships. Maybe Paul Roos?

[chef]

Lots of people on the board seem not to like Fantasia? I have no opinion on the man and just wonder why all this hatred? Yeah, so what he extended some contracts and gave DJ an extra year. We don't know the reasons behind that, but if someone can enlighten me on why he is doing a bad job? I know Eade didn't like him, but they worked together and I always suspected there was a bit or resentment there.

Because he sacked someone who was much loved on this board?

[chef]

So Fantasia is compromised and unsuitable to be involved in selecting the new coach because he didn't get on well with the old coach? :confused:

Perhaps Fantasia was right and Eade is not the best coach for us now. Radical thought I know, but there might be something to it.

I agree with this unpopular thought.

[chef]

Great point. I just want Fantasia out too.

Why?

[Mantis]

Because he sacked someone who was much loved on this board?

You under-estimate the intelligence of this forums contributors.

Read a few of Sedat's posts on Fantasia and you might get an idea on why his credibility is being questioned.

[LostDoggy]

Don't have a problem with this at all. I have worked in HR for more years than I care to tell you all, and to have one or two independent people sitting on an interview panel can give a totally different perspective and more often than not, really adds to the whole process. The great man obviously has his heart with the doggies, and Harley is a premiership player who understands the culture/motivation needed to win a flag. This is good news!

[chef]

You under-estimate the intelligence of this forums contributors.

Read a few of Sedat's posts on Fantasia and you might get an idea on why his credibility is being questioned.

I'm not under-estimating any one's intelligence, I just don't agree with some of it(I admit I am in the time for a change camp).

I would love to hear the opinion of anyone out there who has actually worked with or for Fantasia.


What's your opinion on Fantasia Mantis?

[bornadog]

Don't have a problem with this at all. I have worked in HR for more years than I care to tell you all, and to have one or two independent people sitting on an interview panel can give a totally different perspective and more often than not, really adds to the whole process. The great man obviously has his heart with the doggies, and Harley is a premiership player who understands the culture/motivation needed to win a flag. This is good news!

Well said MG.

[Mantis]

What's your opinion on Fantasia Mantis?

Without knowing his full role it is hard to really judge what he is supposed to be doing. From the outside it looks like he is trying to do too much and there have been some questionable calls along the way. ie. list management decisions

It also seems from afar that the former coach & James had been pulling in different directions which didn't help the footy dept run all that smoothly.

You also hear rumours that a few former staff members have left due to fallings out with James which isn't a good sign of a harmonious environment.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

What coaching experience have Grant and Harley had? Seems a bit odd to me.

Steven Wallis & Jose Romero were on the panel that selected Rocket back in 2004, and they didn't have coaching experience either & that selection was pretty good wasn't it ? :)

[Mofra]

Without knowing his full role it is hard to really judge what he is supposed to be doing.
Is this not an issue in itself though?

This board is by and large made up of die-hard Bulldog fans (many with contacts at the club), and we have no idea what he actually does, let alone the casual observer.

To me, this in itself indicates an issue with communication.

[LostDoggy]

I tend to agree with both sides here. They do need a heavy hitting former Coach, eg Matthews, on the selection committee. However I'd want that to be an add on to the Grant, Harley combo. Harley comes from a successful culture and was Captain at Geelong in it's glory run, so could have great input. And Grant I feel almost represents us the supporters. I know he's probably there due to his own experience and knowledge of the club. But he also knows or would have a fair idea how the WB community would react to certain potential coaches.

[Murphy'sLore]

Very good! :D

On that front, it's a weird suit he has on during that commercial (too long in the sides), and with the Hunt slo-mo in the background and the emotional musical track, just doesn't look or feel right.

I don't know if it's the suit, his shoulders seem very narrow and sloping compared to his large and well-formed head. You can see it with other outfits he wears as well. He looks better with a bit of padding on the shoulders.

#toomuchtimeonmyhands

[Topdog]

I'm not under-estimating any one's intelligence, I just don't agree with some of it(I admit I am in the time for a change camp).


You don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

[Scraggers]

Steven Wallis & Jose Romero were on the panel that selected Rocket back in 2004, and they didn't have coaching experience either & that selection was pretty good wasn't it ? :)

But also on that selection committee was Robert Walls ... A Premiership Coach ... What really worries me about the panel of 5 for this selection process is that not one of them is a coach (the under 12s at Maribrynong West doesn't count).

Like others on this thread, in the corporate world, selection panels are normally done with a panel of peers. For me to gain promotion in my role as a School Principal I apply to a panel comprising of other School Principals. Now as much as I love Chris Grant (If it were legal or medically possible I would have this man's babies) he does not (nor do any other selection panel member) have coaching experience.

[Scraggers]

I didn't need an external consultant to come to the conclusion that Rocket's time was up. I expect that the Board certainly saw enough of Rocket to know his strengths, weaknesses and likely approach to coaching the next few years. They obviously thought they didn't need or want the review process planned in order to responded to Rocket's "request" to tell him sooner than later whether a new contract would be offered.

I'm not sure about the highlighted bit :confused: you quote below differs ...

In the Head Coach 2012 thread (link) (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=9681&page=3) you wrote:-


I would offer Eade a three year deal provided he can satisfy the Board:

1. that he is prepared to make the hard list, team selection and player management decisions that we need to make to ensure a mid-sized rebuild and tilt at a flag in two to three years;

2. he can convince the Board that he can develop and implement a premiership winning game plan; and

3. that Eade can understand that humiliating players in front of the crowd and tv cameras is absolutely not on in today's game. Eade must show he understands how to get the best out of younger players (who are not named Cal Ward) and especially Gen Y players.

Most people really rate Rocket as a person and as a coach and I am in that camp, however he has deficiencies (as we all do) and must overcome or eliminate these to a greater degree than we've seen over the past two years. I fear that if Rocket is reappointed the playing group and culture will not evolve quickly enough to not only keep up with the modern game, but blaze a successful new path.

First you are rating him as a coach, offering him a three year deal, and then you are saying his time is up? Feet in both camps ?? :confused:

[LostDoggy]

It still bugs me that we didn't use 'external' resources on our 'internal' review of our former coach.

It still doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense if you look at it from a political perspective rather than a logical one.


Don't have a problem with this at all. I have worked in HR for more years than I care to tell you all, and to have one or two independent people sitting on an interview panel can give a totally different perspective and more often than not, really adds to the whole process. The great man obviously has his heart with the doggies, and Harley is a premiership player who understands the culture/motivation needed to win a flag. This is good news!

Agree. Having Grant onboard is awesome for the fans, but Harley is the really good news here.

Importantly, these two players are highly respected by our current players. Getting buy-in from the playing group for a coach selection will be easier with these two stamps of approval on his formsheet.


Steven Wallis & Jose Romero were on the panel that selected Rocket back in 2004, and they didn't have coaching experience either & that selection was pretty good wasn't it ? :)

Steven Wallis can do no wrong. Taught Chuck Norris all he knows. Not sure if it's the same thing. ;)


But also on that selection committee was Robert Walls ... A Premiership Coach ... What really worries me about the panel of 5 for this selection process is that not one of them is a coach (the under 12s at Maribrynong West doesn't count).

Like others on this thread, in the corporate world, selection panels are normally done with a panel of peers. For me to gain promotion in my role as a School Principal I apply to a panel comprising of other School Principals. Now as much as I love Chris Grant (If it were legal or medically possible I would have this man's babies) he does not (nor do any other selection panel member) have coaching experience.

PMSL!

[LongWait]

I'm not sure about the highlighted bit :confused: you quote below differs ...

In the Head Coach 2012 thread (link) (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=9681&page=3) you wrote:-



First you are rating him as a coach, offering him a three year deal, and then you are saying his time is up? Feet in both camps ?? :confused:

Eade failed my points 2 and 3.

[LongWait]

But also on that selection committee was Robert Walls ... A Premiership Coach ... What really worries me about the panel of 5 for this selection process is that not one of them is a coach (the under 12s at Maribrynong West doesn't count).

Like others on this thread, in the corporate world, selection panels are normally done with a panel of peers. For me to gain promotion in my role as a School Principal I apply to a panel comprising of other School Principals. Now as much as I love Chris Grant (If it were legal or medically possible I would have this man's babies) he does not (nor do any other selection panel member) have coaching experience.

Schools are now part of the corporate world?

The composition of selection panels varies widely depending upon the role being considered and the culture and management arrangements of the organisation. When has an AFL coaching recommendation ever be made by a panel comprising only AFL coaches? In fact, when has a sitting AFL coach ever been on a selection panel for another AFL coaching appointment?

Sometimes a former coach may be a member of the selection panel, although that is probably only the case about half of the time and was relatively rare until fairly recently.

Having a former coach on the panel doesn't necessarily strengthen it's credentials, particularly as many former coaches have now lost touch with the modern game. I'm confident that Chris Grant and Tom Harley are suited to make a recommendation to the Board. It is the club Board who will make the decision, as it should be.

[chef]

You don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Yeah, I do(or atleast I think I do).

[LostDoggy]

Schools are now part of the corporate world?

The composition of selection panels varies widely depending upon the role being considered and the culture and management arrangements of the organisation. When has an AFL coaching recommendation ever be made by a panel comprising only AFL coaches? In fact, when has a sitting AFL coach ever been on a selection panel for another AFL coaching appointment?

Sometimes a former coach may be a member of the selection panel, although that is probably only the case about half of the time and was relatively rare until fairly recently.

Having a former coach on the panel doesn't necessarily strengthen it's credentials, particularly as many former coaches have now lost touch with the modern game. I'm confident that Chris Grant and Tom Harley are suited to make a recommendation to the Board. It is the club Board who will make the decision, as it should be.

Yeah, agree, imagine if Grant Thomas was sitting on the panel.


Yeah I do.

Good comeback ;) hehe.

[Scraggers]

Schools are now part of the corporate world?

The composition of selection panels varies widely depending upon the role being considered and the culture and management arrangements of the organisation. When has an AFL coaching recommendation ever be made by a panel comprising only AFL coaches? In fact, when has a sitting AFL coach ever been on a selection panel for another AFL coaching appointment?

Sometimes a former coach may be a member of the selection panel, although that is probably only the case about half of the time and was relatively rare until fairly recently.

Having a former coach on the panel doesn't necessarily strengthen it's credentials, particularly as many former coaches have now lost touch with the modern game. I'm confident that Chris Grant and Tom Harley are suited to make a recommendation to the Board. It is the club Board who will make the decision, as it should be.

Schools have been part of the corporate world for a long long time ... When big business started setting our curriculum instead of scholars, that's when it all changed. (although most curriculum decision are politically based nowadays anyway ... but I digress !! )

The selection panel set to choose our next coach bring very little 'coaching' experience. How do they know what they are looking for? "Oh ... he sounds nice ... Let's pick him"
If they are following a criteria to choose our next coach, who sets said criteria?
There are to many unanswered questions ...

You are right that current coaches do not form part of the selection panels (maybe they should ... now that's thinking outside the box), but I cant remember a selection panel for any recent appointment of coach that did not involve a 'past' coach in some sort of capacity. It scares me that we don't have someone with that experience.

I would assume that the coach who is chosen will have to partake in psych testing etc.; and will have to present to the panel their vision of our current list ... if this is marked against a 'refresh mentality' criteria formed by the board ... Mmmm ... we are doomed for years in a downward spiral.

I don't know who was on the selection panel for Peter Rhode ... There may well have been past coaches ... but I fear another appointment like this. :mad:

[LongWait]

I propose a selection panel comprising:

Peter Rohde
Tim Watson
Michael Voss
Garry Buckenara
Danny Frawley

and Matthew Primus or Brett Ratten to add another current coach.

[Ghost Dog]

the right person for the job is often not selected
The person who appears to be right for the job, often happens ( Knights )
We need someone with the right CV for mine. A younger coach energized Geelong, but remember,
they have a swag of quality assistants and a group that's full of leaders ( scarlett, Bartell, Steve J )
We have a bunch of young kids now, basically.
We need someone who can crack the whip, has a sharp eye on the modern game, and when questioned, fling their CV in the face of any dissent. For this reason, Highly pref we get someone from Collingwood or Geelong, as an assistant ( perhaps possible ) or Head coach ( doubtful )

[Sockeye Salmon]

I propose a selection panel comprising:

Peter Rohde
Tim Watson
Michael Voss
Garry Buckenara
Danny Frawley

and Matthew Primus or Brett Ratten to add another current coach.

Kevin Bartlett, Tony Shaw and Wayne Schimmelbusch would be outraged.

[LongWait]

Kevin Bartlett, Tony Shaw and Wayne Schimmelbusch would be outraged.

Fair point. I should have put more thought into the list.

[LostDoggy]

I propose a selection panel comprising:

Peter Rohde
Tim Watson
Michael Voss
Garry Buckenara
Danny Frawley

and Matthew Primus or Brett Ratten to add another current coach.

Wait, so to ridicule those who think that SUCCESSFUL coaching experience should be part of the selection panel, you put up a list of failures and think you've made your point?

It's a classic tactic, but completely misrepresenting an opponent's point and then ridiculing it doesn't ridicule your opponent, but yourself. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to realise that no one is calling for rubbish former coaches to be on the panel.

You do know that people can hold views that are not extremes.

[LongWait]

Wait, so to ridicule those who think that SUCCESSFUL coaching experience should be part of the selection panel, you put up a list of failures and think you've made your point?

It's a classic tactic, but completely misrepresenting an opponent's point and then ridiculing it doesn't ridicule your opponent, but yourself. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to realise that no one is calling for rubbish former coaches to be on the panel.

You do know that people can hold views that are not extremes.

If you read my previous post you'd see that I rebutted the point without resorting to humour.

Get a life. It was all in jest and it was not me who started the argument.

[Remi Moses]

I propose a selection panel comprising:

Peter Rohde
Tim Watson
Michael Voss
Garry Buckenara
Danny Frawley

and Matthew Primus or Brett Ratten to add another current coach.

You forgot Super Boot Bernie Quinlan.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Royce Hart says hello

[bornadog]

The selection Panel is fine except I would have a HR person on the panel. I don't know the credentials of Walsh but maybe he has that skill. Laurie Serafini ex Fitztroy has done this type of role previously.

[LostDoggy]

Get a life. .

The irony.

[ledge]

Whether they are bad coaches the fact is they have coached and even though they didnt have what it takes doesnt mean they dont know whats needed.
Some posters on here know exactly what we need as a coach but they couldnt do it.

[ledge]

If you read my previous post you'd see that I rebutted the point without resorting to humour.

Get a life. It was all in jest and it was not me who started the argument.

Can I just say we have discussions on here not arguements, if people dont agree doesnt make it an arguement.

[LostDoggy]

Can I just say we have discussions on here not arguements, if people dont agree doesnt make it an arguement.

It does if it's me you're disagreeing with ;)

[The Pie Man]

Our 21 before Lib has ripped into us re: Grant/Harley on the committee. Shocking

[Topdog]

Coaching has changed so much in the past 5-10 years.

Would Parkin really know what would make a good current coach?

[LongWait]

Can I just say we have discussions on here not arguements, if people dont agree doesnt make it an arguement.

This:



First you are rating him as a coach, offering him a three year deal, and then you are saying his time is up? Feet in both camps ?? :confused:

sounds to me like someone looking for an argument. He isn't disagreeing with me - he's having a go at me.

[Ghost Dog]

You forgot Super Boot Bernie Quinlan.

Shame on me.
Ah yessss. Super boot.

[strebla]

Kevin Bartlett, Tony Shaw and Wayne Schimmelbusch would be outraged.

Royce Hart says hi :D


Should have finnished the thread first too quick foe me I'm Not Bitter

[Scraggers]

This:



sounds to me like someone looking for an argument. He isn't disagreeing with me - he's having a go at me.

I wasn't having a go at all ... If I was having a go I would have told you you're full of $#€¥ and don't know what you're talking about ... What I was actually doing was trying to assertain exactly where you are coming from with your comments about Rocket. IMO from reading your posts, you were all for re-signing Rocket ... Then all of a sudden you changed camps.

You are most definitely entitled to change you mind, I just asked of you why :rolleyes:

[Chicago1]

Royce Hart says hello

Dead. To. Me.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Dead. To. Me.

That was a crazy couple of years

[LongWait]

I wasn't having a go at all ... If I was having a go I would have told you you're full of $#€¥ and don't know what you're talking about ... What I was actually doing was trying to assertain exactly where you are coming from with your comments about Rocket. IMO from reading your posts, you were all for re-signing Rocket ... Then all of a sudden you changed camps.

You are most definitely entitled to change you mind, I just asked of you why :rolleyes:

I've been reasonably critical of Rocket over the past few years but I do rate him as a coach and especially as a person.

I had stated that the board should offer Rocket a 3 year deal if he could satisfy them three things. I didn't say that I supported his reappointment - I acknowledged that the Board makes the decision and if they are satisfied that the deficiencies that I see have been addressed, then they should offer Rocket a longer contract to allow a modest rebuild and another tilt at the flag (rather than tempt Rocket to top up again and go for instant success because he only has a short contract.)

If the Board had asked my opinion, I would have said that Rocket has had 7 good years and has done a pretty good job, however the club needs a significant change to playing personnel and game style and I've not seen evidence that Rocket is prepared to or capable of implementing these changes at this club. Time for Rocket to move on and have a crack at another club.

[Mantis]

Here is Aker's take on adding Grant & Harley to the selection panel:

Jason Akermanis slams selection of Tom Harley, Chris Grant on Bulldogs coach selection panel (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jason-akermanis-slams-selection-of-tom-harley-chris-grant-on-bulldogs-coaching-selection-panel/story-e6frf9jf-1226121185073)

[Ozza]

The usual stupidity and self-absorption from Aker.

Coaching experience or not - Tom Harley and Chris Grant are both bright people who have good football brains. I don't think there is anything wrong with them sitting on the selection panel.

[Desipura]

Here is Aker's take on adding Grant & Harley to the selection panel:

Jason Akermanis slams selection of Tom Harley, Chris Grant on Bulldogs coach selection panel (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jason-akermanis-slams-selection-of-tom-harley-chris-grant-on-bulldogs-coaching-selection-panel/story-e6frf9jf-1226121185073)

He says Grant has been out of the game too long then says Walls or Blight should be on the selection panel, interesting.....

[bornadog]

He says Grant has been out of the game too long then says Walls or Blight should be on the selection panel, interesting.....

What a dickhead he is. Blight is a director of GC, how would that work?

[strebla]

here is aker's take on adding grant & harley to the selection panel:

jason akermanis slams selection of tom harley, chris grant on bulldogs coach selection panel (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jason-akermanis-slams-selection-of-tom-harley-chris-grant-on-bulldogs-coaching-selection-panel/story-e6frf9jf-1226121185073)

wanker!!!!!

[LostDoggy]

It wouldn't matter who the Club opted for on the selection panel, Aker would have had something negative to say about it. The bit about Aker likening himself to Chris Grant as a club legend is pretty unpalatable.

[Remi Moses]

Akermanis must be taking the Urine!
Complete flog:rolleyes:

[westdog54]

Here is Aker's take on adding Grant & Harley to the selection panel:

Jason Akermanis slams selection of Tom Harley, Chris Grant on Bulldogs coach selection panel (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jason-akermanis-slams-selection-of-tom-harley-chris-grant-on-bulldogs-coaching-selection-panel/story-e6frf9jf-1226121185073)

I saw it and thought to myself "FFS can he go one whole week without potting an ex teammate or a club he once played for?"

He really is an irrelevant egotist.

[Cyberdoggie]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned but would Grant have a possible conflict of interest if Leon Cameron is being considered?

I'm not saying it's wrong exactly but i'm assuming they are mates and that may affect his judgement. I suppose you could say the same about Goodwin and Fantasia. etc.

[LostDoggy]

Yes Aker is a flog BUT does he have a point? Mike Sheahan (who I'm not a fan of) also said pretty much the same thing today:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/selection-panels-need-coaching/story-e6frf9jf-1226121570809

[Chicago1]

Here is Aker's take on adding Grant & Harley to the selection panel:

Jason Akermanis slams selection of Tom Harley, Chris Grant on Bulldogs coach selection panel (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jason-akermanis-slams-selection-of-tom-harley-chris-grant-on-bulldogs-coaching-selection-panel/story-e6frf9jf-1226121185073)

Alas, my comment wasn't published:

"Why does this newspaper continue to give publicity to this totally irrelevant former player? Everything is "nothing personal" to him. Surely he jests. I'd much prefer reading the opinion of someone who is universally admired in the football world, not someone who is solely admired within the confines of his own small mind."

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Alas, my comment wasn't published:

"Why does this newspaper continue to give publicity to this totally irrelevant former player? Everything is "nothing personal" to him. Surely he jests. I'd much prefer reading the opinion of someone who is universally admired in the football world, not someone who is solely admired within the confines of his own small mind."

Beautifully put. Hopefully the longer he is "out of football" the less inclined the paper will be to publish his tripe.

[azabob]

We don't have a person with coaching experience on our "coaching selection panel" some clubs have appointed senior coaches without coaching experience! :)

I guess it shows times are changing. :)

Hopefully we are more successful in picking a coach than Voss has been so far! ;)

[Maddog37]

Voss had trouble with list management and trading. Not sure about his actual coaching yet. His players do tend to have a crack.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure why anyone takes notice of what Aker says.

[KT31]

Steven Wallis & Jose Romero were on the panel that selected Rocket back in 2004, and they didn't have coaching experience either & that selection was pretty good wasn't it ? :)

Obviously not, the club overseen every decision and then finally sacked him.;)

[Ozza]

Who is more in touch with the modern game -

Robert Walls and Malcolm Blight - who both haven't coached since the 90s.

Or Tom Harley and Chris Grant who finished within the last few years?

The coaches main responsibility is the players - so it makes sense to have a player perspective on the panel - as it will be the players who either do or don't respond to the new appointment.

[LostDoggy]

I've been reasonably critical of Rocket over the past few years but I do rate him as a coach and especially as a person.

I had stated that the board should offer Rocket a 3 year deal if he could satisfy them three things. I didn't say that I supported his reappointment - I acknowledged that the Board makes the decision and if they are satisfied that the deficiencies that I see have been addressed, then they should offer Rocket a longer contract to allow a modest rebuild and another tilt at the flag (rather than tempt Rocket to top up again and go for instant success because he only has a short contract.)

If the Board had asked my opinion, I would have said that Rocket has had 7 good years and has done a pretty good job, however the club needs a significant change to playing personnel and game style and I've not seen evidence that Rocket is prepared to or capable of implementing these changes at this club. Time for Rocket to move on and have a crack at another club.

The decision is made, Rocket is an ex-parrot. He's not stunned, he's dead. He's not pining for the fields, he f***ing snuffed it… What am I talking about? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE)

Personally, I'm sick to death of the fighting and general negativity between WOOF posters on every single thread about our coaching situation. Meet up at the local pub and belt each other's brains out if you like, but it's getting boring in here watching everybody play Keyboard Warrior. It's not about expressing your opinion any more, it's about who is right and who is wrong and it's childish.

This is not limited to just yourself, and I respect (and would love to keep on reading) your opinions on football, but not on whether Scraggers (or anybody else) is picking on you (or anybody else).

Please feel welcome to PM me and call me a prick if you all think I'm too harsh, but there it is.

Move on.

[Desipura]

The Chris Grant selection on the panel was I believe in part to please the supporters that a club legend had a say in the next coaching appointment.

[LostDoggy]

The decision is made, Rocket is an ex-parrot. He's not stunned, he's dead. He's not pining for the fields, he f***ing snuffed it… What am I talking about? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE)

Personally, I'm sick to death of the fighting and general negativity between WOOF posters on every single thread about our coaching situation. Meet up at the local pub and belt each other's brains out if you like, but it's getting boring in here watching everybody play Keyboard Warrior. It's not about expressing your opinion any more, it's about who is right and who is wrong and it's childish.

This is not limited to just yourself, and I respect (and would love to keep on reading) your opinions on football, but not on whether Scraggers (or anybody else) is picking on you (or anybody else).

Please feel welcome to PM me and call me a prick if you all think I'm too harsh, but there it is.

Move on.

Agree, was just thinking the same thing as I read through the comments - why are we even talking about this? Sure express an opinion, but then show respect to another's! Mutual respect works really well I find!

[LongWait]

The decision is made, Rocket is an ex-parrot. He's not stunned, he's dead. He's not pining for the fields, he f***ing snuffed it… What am I talking about? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE)

Personally, I'm sick to death of the fighting and general negativity between WOOF posters on every single thread about our coaching situation. Meet up at the local pub and belt each other's brains out if you like, but it's getting boring in here watching everybody play Keyboard Warrior. It's not about expressing your opinion any more, it's about who is right and who is wrong and it's childish.

This is not limited to just yourself, and I respect (and would love to keep on reading) your opinions on football, but not on whether Scraggers (or anybody else) is picking on you (or anybody else).

Please feel welcome to PM me and call me a prick if you all think I'm too harsh, but there it is.

Move on.

Scraggers asked me why the apparent change of opinion and I answered him politely. What the hell was wrong with my post???

[Scraggers]

Scraggers asked me why the apparent change of opinion and I answered him politely. What the hell was wrong with my post???

Agreed ... There was no malice in my posts or LWs. I think you find we both showed mutual respect towards each other whilst both expressing our opinions and clarifying our stance.

The only thing I do agree with is it's time to move forward.

[ledge]

Has the club put a time on announcing the new coach?
I hope its the day after our Freo game so he can get maximum time in preparing for next year with delistings and looking at draft and what type of players he wants.

[Mofra]

Has the club put a time on announcing the new coach?
I hope its the day after our Freo game so he can get maximum time in preparing for next year with delistings and looking at draft and what type of players he wants.
It raises another question - how much control will a new coach have over the list, and will they be playing second banana to Fantasia on these sorts of matters?

[LongWait]

It raises another question - how much control will a new coach have over the list, and will they be playing second banana to Fantasia on these sorts of matters?

That is going to be an interesting dynamic isn't it! It seems it was with the former coach as well. The club's org structure seems to have the coach responsible for the assistants but not any of the other Football Department personnel. Is that your take on it Mofra?

[Mofra]

That is going to be an interesting dynamic isn't it! It seems it was with the former coach as well. The club's org structure seems to have the coach responsible for the assistants but not any of the other Football Department personnel. Is that your take on it Mofra?
Two issues with me:
1. We on Woof, by and large representative of the more passionate supporters, have no real idea what Fantastia actually does. I find this a significant communication issue on behalf of Fantasia/the club.

2. I'm not sure Rocket would have been the architect behind signing DJ for 3 years, Hooper and Mulligan so it looks (externally) like Fantasia has the overriding say on list management matters (until we appoint a full timer). I'd love a coach to come in with the balls to say "In year 1 want veto rights on trade decisions because I want players to play like X, Y & Z".

[LongWait]

Two issues with me:
1. We on Woof, by and large representative of the more passionate supporters, have no real idea what Fantastia actually does. I find this a significant communication issue on behalf of Fantasia/the club.

2. I'm not sure Rocket would have been the architect behind signing DJ for 3 years, Hooper and Mulligan so it looks (externally) like Fantasia has the overriding say on list management matters (until we appoint a full timer). I'd love a coach to come in with the balls to say "In year 1 want veto rights on trade decisions because I want players to play like X, Y & Z".

I certainly agree with the Coach having the veto you propose. Given Fantasia's role in the selection process, perhaps recruiting and trade veto rights is something they should take up with the Board rather than the panel. Unless of course the coach already has that veto right.

[Rocco Jones]

Has the club put a time on announcing the new coach?
I hope its the day after our Freo game so he can get maximum time in preparing for next year with delistings and looking at draft and what type of players he wants.

I agree with your senitment.

While of course I hope we don't rush things, I hope we are as quick as possible in selecting a new coach (like with Eade). If a delay means we secure our number 1 pick, sure but it looks like the leading candidates can be interviewed and secured now. It's good for a couple of reasons. As you mention it means they can get working asap and it also means we can get in before Crows and Melbourne (once again, of course it is not a reason to 'rush' it).

Mofra raises an interesting point about the coach/FM logistics. It seems like Eade either 1/ was at least partially at fault for DJ/Mulligan/Hooper or 2/ IMO did not have enough of a say in list management. Sure, the coach cannot do everything but I believe they need to be part of the list management process. You don't need to be the one in charge to have a big say. I agree with the year 1 veto.

[LongWait]

Mofra raises an interesting point about the coach/FM logistics. It seems like Eade either 1/ was at least partially at fault for DJ/Mulligan/Hooper or 2/ IMO did not have enough of a say in list management. Sure, the coach cannot do everything but I believe they need to be part of the list management process. You don't need to be the one in charge to have a big say. I agree with the year 1 veto.

What do you think about the coach always having the veto: not just for the first year. That would seem to me to be a sensible setup. I suppose informally such an arrangement probably exists in some clubs but if I was coach I'd want to know that someone else wasn't going to trade or draft away my game plan or player structure.

[Rocco Jones]

What do you think about the coach always having the veto: not just for the first year. That would seem to me to be a sensible setup. I suppose informally such an arrangement probably exists in some clubs but if I was coach I'd want to know that someone else wasn't goint to trade or draft away my game plan or player structure.

It's a hard one because the FM is the one who should be most qualified list management wise and also most informed on the decisions as it's a primary part of their job description.

When it comes down to it, the most fundamental aspect to a successful relationship between the roles is trust. I've heard a saying about two people always agreeing means you've hired one too many. Disagreeing is great sometimes but it's about how the respective parties deal with it. If you respect the person, you can logically debate, end up with a compromise or accept they may have more information or expertise in a specific area.

It seems that didn't really happen with Eade and Fantasia. I definitely believe Fantasia has a fair load of blame for that but I also think Rocket's stubborn nature didn't help.

[LongWait]

It's a hard one because the FM is the one who should be most qualified list management wise and also most informed on the decisions as it's a primary part of their job description.

When it comes down to it, the most fundamental aspect to a successful relationship between the roles is trust. I've heard a saying about two people always agreeing means you've hired one too many. Disagreeing is great sometimes but it's about how the respective parties deal with it. If you respect the person, you can logically debate, end up with a compromise or accept they may have more information or expertise in a specific area.

It seems that didn't really happen with Eade and Fantasia. I definitely believe Fantasia has a fair load of blame for that but I also think Rocket's stubborn nature didn't help.

I agree that the ideal is where the two people find a way to agree or find a way forward despite their disagreement.

I'm happy for the Footy Manager to have line management responsibility for list management - the Head Coach has enough on his plate - but the Coach having a veto will probably increase the likelihood that the Coach and Footy Manager find a way to either agree, or to work with their differences. The Footy Manager couldn't then crack the cooties and ignore the views of the Coach.