Ward, Boyd, Cross and Giansiracusa still unsigned

[chef]

AS the Western Bulldogs scramble to make a last-ditch bid to retain Callan Ward, several other stars remain unsigned.

Captain Matthew Boyd, joint vice-captain Daniel Giansiracusa and heart-and-soul midfielder Daniel Cross are yet to agree to terms beyond this year.

Ward is believed to be no better than a 30-70 chance to stay at Whitten Oval, but the Dogs should strike deals with the experienced trio despite haggling over the deals.

It is unusual for a captain of Boyd's stature to be unsigned so late in a season, with the sticking point believed to be the length of a new agreement.

Boyd, 29 next week, has been offered two years, with debate continuing on whether he is worth three.

Giansiracusa, who will be 30 by the start of next season, also remains in limbo.

It is understood there have been no talks between the Dogs and Giansiracusa's management for several weeks, but there has been debate over whether the forward deserves two years or one year.




Cross, who will be 29 entering next season, is also believed to favour a new two-year deal, but at this stage has been offered only a one-year extension.

In other developments at Whitten Oval, there was speculation last night that popular ruckman Ben Hudson was close to announcing he would not play on next season.

Despite the contract issues at the top end of the list, and the likelihood Hudson will retire, the Dogs are close to announcing deals with several emerging players -- including Easton Wood, who was believed to be a target of Greater Western Sydney.

There is speculation veteran Robert Murphy has agreed to terms on a two-year deal.

Ward's manager, Paul Connors, has a meeting with the Bulldogs next week.

The meeting,before the Dogs' final game against Fremantle, should give the club a clearer insight into the 21-year-old midfielder's plans.

Some teammates are believed to be resigned to the fact that Ward will leave -- and they cannot begrudge him given he will earn about $4.5 million over five years.

The Dogs have tried everything to convince Ward to stay, reiterating his future as a leader and pushing up his offer to about $450,000 a season.

Boyd's contract was not extended when he was announced as skipper in January.

Both Boyd and Cross signed three-year deals in 2008.

Boyd is the top possession getter in the AFL this year.





OUT OF CONTRACT

CALLAN WARD: Considered a 30 per cent chance of staying.

MATTHEW BOYD: Discussions on whether he is worth two or three years.

DANIEL CROSS: Has been offered one. Is he worth two?

DANIEL GIANSIRACUSA: In limbo. Likely to have to accept one-year.




BELIEVED TO HAVE SIGNED

ROBERT MURPHY: Two years in principle.




ALL BUT DONE

EASTON WOOD: Was a target for GWS.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ward-boyd-cross-and-giansiracusa-still-unsigned/story-e6frf9jf-1226120815732

[Ghost Dog]

Good on ya Easton
I guess Ward is gone then.....

What's the forum's view of Boyd? Think he has two years left in him?

[Desipura]

I was told the swans are interested in Minson, they may have given up on Seaby

[BulldogBelle]

l think the club must hold firm on Boyd, Cross and Gia.
You can't give them more time than they are worth as they are getting to the wrong side of 30.
Look at Gilbee one year left on his contract and spent most of this year at Willy.

[GVGjr]

l think the club must hold firm on Boyd, Cross and Gia.
You can't give them more time than they are worth as they are getting to the wrong side of 30.
Look at Gilbee one year left on his contract and spent most of this year at Willy.

I'd be going for 2 years deals for Giansiracusa and Cross but a 3 year deal for Boyd.

[Mantis]

I'd be going for 2 years deals for Giansiracusa and Cross but a 3 year deal for Boyd.

If you were the player or the club?

[Desipura]

I'd be going for 2 years deals for Giansiracusa and Cross but a 3 year deal for Boyd.

I think you are too kind on Cross and Gia.
Cross will not help us climb back up the ladder, I would prefer Wallis & Libba in the team in 2012.
Gia's form was very very good during the middle part of the season, it has dropped since.
What happens if his form drops early in 2012 like it did in 2011? What if he cannot recapture his form?
We will have him playing the next 1 1/2 years at Williamstown.

Its not as if these 2 players are in demand at another club, keep them on one year contracts I say, there is less to lose financially that way.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think you are too kind on Cross and Gia.
Cross will not help us climb back up the ladder, I would prefer Wallis & Libba in the team in 2012.
Gia's form was very very good during the middle part of the season, it has dropped since.
What happens if his form drops early in 2012 like it did in 2011? What if he cannot recapture his form?
We will have him playing the next 1 1/2 years at Williamstown.

Its not as if these 2 players are in demand at another club, keep them on one year contracts I say, there is less to lose financially that way.

Under free agency next year players of this age group will simply ask for the extra year knowing they can walk if they don't get it.

Cross is worth nothing in a trade but just about every club would snap him up if they could get him for free.

[Desipura]

Under free agency next year players of this age group will simply ask for the extra year knowing they can walk if they don't get it.

Cross is worth nothing in a trade but just about every club would snap him up if they could get him for free.
I am willing to take that risk.

[soupman]

Cross is worth nothing in a trade but just about every club would snap him up if they could get him for free.

Bullshit.

The fact is players over 30 (I realise Cross is only 28 but this still applies) don't get picked up elsewhere unless they can fill a gaping hole in a potential premiership contender ie. Barry Hall to us or are champions who can help develop players and raise the profile of a club ie. Ben Cousins. Otherwise they fill up a valuable spot on the list that would otherwise belong to what could turn out to be a 10 year player.

No club would look at picking up Cross as a FA when there would be numerous younger options available. We are discussing whether Wallis will have overtaken him next year already and Wallis has largely looked out of his depth at AFL level thus far.

[bornadog]

I'd be going for 2 years deals for Giansiracusa and Cross but a 3 year deal for Boyd.

I tend to agree, all three have played well and put in the extra training and intensity required at this level. They are all role models for the younger group. Cross is only 28 and has had a fantastic season as has Boyd and Gia.

I don't understand some fans not appreciating what these guys have done for the club and they still have plenty to give.

Is it any wonder that teams like Melbourne and Richmond, full of young potential kids but with no older players with experience to help them, still can't make the finals.

[Mantis]

I tend to agree, all three have played well and put in the extra training and intensity required at this level. They are all role models for the younger group. Cross is only 28 and has had a fantastic season as has Boyd and Gia.

I don't understand some fans not appreciating what these guys have done for the club and they still have plenty to give.

Is it any wonder that teams like Melbourne and Richmond, full of young potential kids but with no older players with experience to help them, still can't make the finals.

We all appreciate what these guys do for the club, but we are in this game to win premierships and we need to build a team which can do so.

Even though all 3 have been good this year it's an unknown how they will be going at the end of next year and if they will be helping us to build towards another tilt at a flag or perhaps holding us back.

And Cross hasn't had a fantastic season, he has been good, but not fantastic. Gia had a great patch through the middle of the season, but his last few games have been below par and my views on Boyd's season are far different to many others, but statistics show he is racking up the touches which I guess is important for the role he plays.

[Ozza]

The club is well within its rights to offer Gia and Crossy 1 - and Boyd 2.
If they play well enough - the contract extensions will look after themselves.

For Gia, he has certainly played well enough this season to suggest he will be in the best 22 next year. He is likely to be top 5 in the B&F - but with his lack of pace and size limitations - if his form wanes - the end will be very quick for him - and I'm a big Gia fan. 1 year and see how he goes.

Very similar for Cross - who could well be competing for his own spot with Wallis next year. You'd like to think Wallis will draw level with him at some point and become the preferred player for the midfield rotation.

Boyd is still a very very good midfielder - but 2 years is a long time for a bloke in his late 20s.

I hope the club stands firm on all 3 - I'd be disappointed if they gave any of them the extra year. And thats not to disrespect the players - but its business.

[LostDoggy]

Cross is pretty much Luke Ball with a lower media profile but a better overhead mark -- every 'young' team looking to get a hard head in to help out will not be missing out on another Luke Ball after seeing how well he's done at Collingwood.

As WE would be that 'young team' in the next couple of years we shouldn't be undervaluing a seasoned body and a contributor of his quality. If Libba and Wallis become good enough they'll push him out naturally, but we shouldn't be losing Crossy from our list prematurely.

[SlimPickens]

The club is well within its rights to offer Gia and Crossy 1 - and Boyd 2.
If they play well enough - the contract extensions will look after themselves.

For Gia, he has certainly played well enough this season to suggest he will be in the best 22 next year. He is likely to be top 5 in the B&F - but with his lack of pace and size limitations - if his form wanes - the end will be very quick for him - and I'm a big Gia fan. 1 year and see how he goes.

Very similar for Cross - who could well be competing for his own spot with Wallis next year. You'd like to think Wallis will draw level with him at some point and become the preferred player for the midfield rotation.

Boyd is still a very very good midfielder - but 2 years is a long time for a bloke in his late 20s.

I hope the club stands firm on all 3 - I'd be disappointed if they gave any of them the extra year. And thats not to disrespect the players - but its business.


Tend to agree with this Ozza, Gia's body is a concern (Hip issues from what i've heard) and 1 year is fair. Out of the 3 i'd be looking at Boyd to be he only one that may get their wish.

[bornadog]

Cross is pretty much Luke Ball with a lower media profile but a better overhead mark -- every 'young' team looking to get a hard head in to help out will not be missing out on another Luke Ball after seeing how well he's done at Collingwood.

As WE would be that 'young team' in the next couple of years we shouldn't be undervaluing a seasoned body and a contributor of his quality. If Libba and Wallis become good enough they'll push him out naturally, but we shouldn't be losing Crossy from our list prematurely.

When Cross and Boyd are ready to retire, Wallis and Libba will be primed to take over. They will not be taking over next year as 19 year olds.

[Ghost Dog]

I'd be going for 2 years deals for Giansiracusa and Cross but a 3 year deal for Boyd.

2 years for Gia and 3 for boyd...
I just can't agree on Gia. Classy, but not irreplacable. 1 year.
Boyd, yeah maybe 3. Prefer 2.
Cross, don't agree. 1 year max.
We are just too slow as a team.

[Mantis]

When Cross and Boyd are ready to retire, Wallis and Libba will be primed to take over. They will not be taking over next year as 19 year olds.

No-one has said that will be taking over next year, just that we have to be cautious with our older players so that we aren't in the position we are now with Gilbee & Hargrave in a few years time.

As Ozza stated if their form is good enough they will be around for a while yet.

[GVGjr]

If you were the player or the club?

I was going more from the players perspective. I think Boyd deserves 3 but I'd have a discount in the 3rd season. Cross for 2 seems right to me but I could understand if the club wanted to offer year by year deals to Giansiracusa.

[LostDoggy]

We got 4 good years out of Hudson because the Coneheads, acting on their principles, refused to give him a three year deal.

I'm with GVGJr on this.

[Ghost Dog]

who are the coneheads? crows?

[AndrewP6]

who are the coneheads? crows?

Yep.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The obvious thing to do is give them the extra year if they meet performance triggers.

[boydogs]

The obvious thing to do is give them the extra year if they meet performance triggers.

Such as?

[Rocco Jones]

Such as?

- games played
- best and fairest votes
- any meaningful stats

[Ghost Dog]

- games played
- best and fairest votes
- any meaningful stats

Great idea
A clause in Boyd's contract that states
must do a lap of the ground with pants at ankles
if not accountable for his direct opponent.

[MrMahatma]

3 blokes (captain included) who polarise supporter opinion of their real worth. All have glaring weaknesses (pace, disposal, defensive intent...). I'd personally be staying cautious with the contracts given the replacements we have for these blokes. 1,1,2 years for Gia, Cross, Boyd respectively.

I know Boyd is captain, but he's felt to me like a stop gap until a young gun steps up.

[mjp]

3 blokes (captain included) who polarise supporter opinion of their real worth. All have glaring weaknesses (pace, disposal, defensive intent...). I'd personally be staying cautious with the contracts given the replacements we have for these blokes. 1,1,2 years for Gia, Cross, Boyd respectively.

I know Boyd is captain, but he's felt to me like a stop gap until a young gun steps up.

What replacements?

I know that Wallis and Liberatore are destined to be champions of the club and inducted as Legends into the AFL HOF, but can we wait and see whether or not they can actually compete successfully at senior level before ordaining them as replacements for two of the key cogs in the most successful Bulldogs side I can remember?

Their is no guarantee that one of them will make it - for both of them to play 100+ games would be a massive achievement.

[Ghost Dog]

What replacements?

I know that Wallis and Liberatore are destined to be champions of the club and inducted as Legends into the AFL HOF, but can we wait and see whether or not they can actually compete successfully at senior level before ordaining them as replacements for two of the key cogs in the most successful Bulldogs side I can remember?

Their is no guarantee that one of them will make it - for both of them to play 100+ games would be a massive achievement.

We did get a bit too excited at the start of the season, didn't we?
It was like ' oh Wallis is much further ahead of Libba' and didn't turn out that way at all.
Expectations seldom meet reality

[immortalmike]

What replacements?

I know that Wallis and Liberatore are destined to be champions of the club and inducted as Legends into the AFL HOF, but can we wait and see whether or not they can actually compete successfully at senior level before ordaining them as replacements for two of the key cogs in the most successful Bulldogs side I can remember?

Their is no guarantee that one of them will make it - for both of them to play 100+ games would be a massive achievement.

Took the words right out of my mouth (or head as it were). Talk about going early. Wallis is so far from established that it's not funny, and Libba while being really good for a first year player is still only a kid and anything can happen (anyone else remember Everitt's first year).

[Maddog37]

Yes we should lower our expectations and just be grateful if they become good average players..........


No way!! They were junior elite and will be elite at the AFL level. I am adopting the Collingwood mentality in that every kid on our list is a gun. Stick your realism up your jumper.

[Ghost Dog]

Took the words right out of my mouth (or head as it were). Talk about going early. Wallis is so far from established that it's not funny, and Libba while being really good for a first year player is still only a kid and anything can happen (anyone else remember Everitt's first year).

I can't remember really. Did he play any good footy for us at all?

[The Underdog]

Such as?

Can you meaningfully measure kicking efficiency or decision making to make it worth something that'd be applicable in a contract?

[Mofra]

We got 4 good years out of Hudson because the Coneheads, acting on their principles, refused to give him a three year deal.
I still think the Crows' treatment of their older players would have been a factor in Bock leaving as well.

[boydogs]

Can you meaningfully measure kicking efficiency or decision making to make it worth something that'd be applicable in a contract?

I don't think so, hence my question


- games played
- best and fairest votes
- any meaningful stats

Games + B&F votes however are probably fair enough

[KT31]

A whisper I have heard is Boyd offered three, Cross and Gia both two years.
Pen nearly to paper on all.