Expect 3 years of misery

[PedroArvy]

Terry Wallace had this to say at the AFL site:


http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/122129/default.aspx (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/122129/default.aspx)


13th - WESTERN BULLDOGS
Similar to Fremantle, the Dogs have a strange list. The new coach has a tough job, as he has a chance to reinvigorate in the first 12 months, but faces massive list decisions and forced retirements within 18 months.

They may have some good kids but not enough players in the 22/27 age bracket to have success in the 2013/15 period. Who plays key forward with Liam Jones is anyone's guess.



Sounds like 3 years of misery. Must admit I see the same issues as he does. Plus calls that the new coach will be hopeless when he has a few seasons where the list is against him. Perhaps I am too cynical.

Comments anyone?

[bornadog]

Cordy will play forward with Jones in the future.

[Mantis]

Cordy will play forward with Jones in the future.

At what point will he have an impact? In 3 years?

[bornadog]

At what point will he have an impact? In 3 years?

Who knows, but he is earmarked to play majority of the time in the forward line and some time in the ruck. New coach may have different ideas.

[PedroArvy]

Cordy seems so thin and easily pushed off the ball. Why hasn't he been hitting the weights?

[Greystache]

Cordy seems so thin and easily pushed off the ball. Why hasn't he been hitting the weights?

He's put on 20kg since he got to the club.

[LostDoggy]

I pretty much agree. To big a gap in ages between 28+ and 23 and unders.

To many kids with not enough games under their belts that look to be best 22.

I think 2-3 years of pain is coming up. Seems like 2002 all over again.

I hope we embrace the rebuild, draft some guns with low picks next 1-2 years and try and get the kids who are 18-22 as many games as possible in the next few years.

[PedroArvy]

Wow, that's a lot.

[Mantis]

Who knows, but he is earmarked to play majority of the time in the forward line and some time in the ruck. New coach may have different ideas.

From what we have seen of him so far a lot is going to have to change over the next 12 to 24 months for him to be competitive as a forward.

[Greystache]

From what we have seen of him so far a lot is going to have to change over the next 12 to 24 months for him to be competitive as a forward.

To me he looks like he'll need to put on another 10-15kg's to be competitve, I dont know how athletic he'll be as a forward at 115kg.

[stefoid]

Our midfield is the biggest worry, and thats where we need to concentrate our best draft picks over the next two years - on midfileders that can use the ball well. We already have the extractors in libba and wallis, but they will need someone to give it to.

Luxuries like a replacement for Lake will have to wait. Wthout a decent midfield, no amount of gun defnders will save you.

[BulldogBelle]

We kept up with Hawthorn for the first 2 quarters, but in the third our younger players tired and the flood of inside 50s increased

Its going to be painful until our younger players like Dahlhaus, Libertore, Wallis, Tutt, Schofield, Roughead + Howard etc have all played 40+ games, and have a decent fitness base

Add Grant and Vezpremni to that list as well

[bornadog]

To me he looks like he'll need to put on another 10-15kg's to be competitve, I dont know how athletic he'll be as a forward at 115kg.

He needs to build strength without putting on too much weight

[Greystache]

He needs to build strength without putting on too much weight

Got any thoughts on that?

[immortalmike]

Got any thoughts on that?

Ring up Dustin Fletcher?:confused:

[Mantis]

To me he looks like he'll need to put on another 10-15kg's to be competitve, I dont know how athletic he'll be as a forward at 115kg.

There were reports that he has dropped a fair bit of weight during the course of this season as his mobility early on was being adversely affected.

Agree that he needs to get stronger, but his body shape obviously makes it tough.

[Greystache]

Ring up Dustin Fletcher?:confused:

I wouldn't call Fletcher strong, that's why he's always the loose man going 3rd man up.

[immortalmike]

I wouldn't call Fletcher strong, that's why he's always the loose man going 3rd man up.

Did you forget all the years he played on Lockett, Dunstall, Hall, Grant and such. He only really started playing loose when he hit his early 30s.

[bornadog]

Got any thoughts on that?

Wouldn't have a clue as I have no idea on building muscle.

[Greystache]

Wouldn't have a clue as I have no idea on building muscle.

From my days back in Biomedical science, I'd say it's the equivalent of trying to add more water to a container without making it heavier.

[bornadog]

From my days back in Biomedical science, I'd say it's the equivalent of trying to add more water to a container without making it heavier.

No doubt he would have to add some weight to gain muscle or strength.( I did say no too much weight). I guess its a matter of balancing it out with what his body can take.

[SlimPickens]

No doubt he would have to add some weight to gain muscle or strength.( I did say no too much weight). I guess its a matter of balancing it out with what his body can take.

Maybe the key is to not condition Cordy to be a Minson size but look at something more like Justin Westhof or Kurt Tippet. The big thing with Cordy will be getting confidence in his body first thing and look at putting on size in appropriate areas. For me there is still plenty of weight he could put through his legs and shoulders.

Over last pre-season he looked way to top heavy and lean in other areas such as his quads. A smarter training regime should see him not lose to much mobility and hopefully sit around the 95-100kg mark.

[Mofra]

Over last pre-season he looked way to top heavy and lean in other areas such as his quads. A smarter training regime should see him not lose to much mobility and hopefully sit around the 95-100kg mark.
He is listed at 99kgs, but as has been mentioned he does seem to have lost weight during the year so his current weight is anyone's guess.

IIRC Warnock and Luenberger had similar builds when drafted; if Cordy ends up anywhere near Luenberger we'd be over the moon.

[Mantis]

IIRC Warnock and Luenberger had similar builds when drafted; if Cordy ends up anywhere near Luenberger we'd be over the moon.

Leuenberger weighed about 15kg more than Cordy when drafted.

[Sedat]

Got any thoughts on that?
Very important for someone like Cordy to build up his core strength. Strength in the core does not have to come with excessive weight gain.

[Greystache]

Leuenberger weighed about 15kg more than Cordy when drafted.

Correct, he was 93kg when drafted and virtually the same height as Ayce.

[SlimPickens]

Very important for someone like Cordy to build up his core strength. Strength in the core does not have to come with excessive weight gain.

What do you mean by "core strength"?

[mjp]

I think 2-3 years of pain is coming up. Seems like 2002 all over again.


Things are never as good as you hope or as bad as you fear.

With a midfield including Griffen, Boyd, and (occasionally) Cooney, with Williams, Lake, Morris and Murphy down back with Jones, Gia and some energy from Dalhaus up front, we will win a few games. It is going to be whether or not we can get a contribution from 'the rest' - Roughead, Liber, DJ, Sherman, Minson, Grant etc that will determine how many.

It is not all doom and gloom...

[Mofra]

Leuenberger weighed about 15kg more than Cordy when drafted.
May bad, he seemed like a stringbean.
Warnock seems to have filled out well from a very low base, although it has taken some time.

[PedroArvy]

Well that's what I hope for. A coach that can stimulate a team to play as a group and deliver motivation is also a big deal.

[bornadog]

What do you mean by "core strength"?

Most of the muscles that make up the core are deep tissue muscles layered underneath. Rowers and Kayakers need core strength especially in the abdominal area.

[Ghost Dog]

Things are never as good as you hope or as bad as you fear.

With a midfield including Griffen, Boyd, and (occasionally) Cooney, with Williams, Lake, Morris and Murphy down back with Jones, Gia and some energy from Dalhaus up front, we will win a few games. It is going to be whether or not we can get a contribution from 'the rest' - Roughead, Liber, DJ, Sherman, Minson, Grant etc that will determine how many.

It is not all doom and gloom...

Libba I don't worry about. Higgins, Hooper, Hill - basically anyone with the letter H at the start of their name. Note to recruiters. Watch the H!'s

[GVGjr]

Cordy will play forward with Jones in the future.

I haven't seen enough positives in him so far to suggest that he can hold down a regular senior spot. He needs more time but he needs to make some progress.

[bornadog]

I haven't seen enough positives in him so far to suggest that he can hold down a regular senior spot. He needs more time but he needs to make some progress.

I did say Future, well thats the clubs plans anyway.

Time will tell if he will even makes it.

[GVGjr]

I did say Future, well thats the clubs plans anyway.

Time will tell if he will even makes it.

Yes, he needs another season but it must be frustrating for the club that he isn't anywhere near the standard yet.

[SlimPickens]

Most of the muscles that make up the core are deep tissue muscles layered underneath. Rowers and Kayakers need core strength especially in the abdominal area.

Fair enough, just interested as Sedat said he would need to work on his core to aid with weight and strength.

I can certainly see the need to work on his core but for Ayce i would be looking at the global muscles around the pelvis such as his Glutes, Adductors, hamstrings, hip flexors and pelvic floor etc. Core muscles to me control and regulate finer movements, they certainly aid with stability but to rely on them purely for strength would be lunacy. For me as crude as this sounds i would like to see Ayce with a big arse (strength wise) next year, that will help him not get pushed off the ball. Although with the way he is built (body type) it is going to have to be a slower progression, then simply smashing the gym all summer.

[Bulldog Joe]

Cordy seems so thin and easily pushed off the ball. Why hasn't he been hitting the weights?

Cordy has lost weight since the start of the year. Apparently he was not able to cope with the extra muscle as his body adapts.

[Remi Moses]

Reasonable article from Wallace. I think we're expecting things from T. Hill and Panos, re- Key Forwards. Need big lift from the 22- 27 age group I Agree.

[w3design]

Lets hope we can do what Geelong have done (I know, they have alot of quality players....but) In 2006, very similar to our season this year, Geelong finished 10th. Had some good wins, but also copped some beltings (102 and 92 points) I bet their supporters felt exacly the same as we are feeling now after their 2006 season. I'm not saying that we have the quality of Geelong, but surely I'm not the only optimistic Doggies supporter.

[Mantis]

Lets hope we can do what Geelong have done (I know, they have alot of quality players....but) In 2006, very similar to our season this year, Geelong finished 10th. Had some good wins, but also copped some beltings (102 and 92 points) I bet their supporters felt exacly the same as we are feeling now after their 2006 season. I'm not saying that we have the quality of Geelong, but surely I'm not the only optimistic Doggies supporter.

I think the main difference between Geelong back then and where we are at now would be how the 2 lists match-up.

Back then they had the likes of Scarlett, Bartel, Corey, Enright, Ablett, etc all in the 22-27 age group whereas we have a real absence of talent in this region... which is why it's predicted we will struggle.

[w3design]

I agree, I'm just saying that I wouldn't be saying that it will be '3 years of Misery'. If we have everyone fully fit and firing next year, we would certainly have one of the best back lines in the league (Lake, Gilbee, Murph, Wood, Williams, Morris etc)

[1eyedog]

Maybe the key is to not condition Cordy to be a Minson size but look at something more like Justin Westhof or Kurt Tippet. The big thing with Cordy will be getting confidence in his body first thing and look at putting on size in appropriate areas. For me there is still plenty of weight he could put through his legs and shoulders.

Over last pre-season he looked way to top heavy and lean in other areas such as his quads. A smarter training regime should see him not lose to much mobility and hopefully sit around the 95-100kg mark.

Cordy would never look like Will even if he spent 100 years in the gym, completely different body types.


Things are never as good as you hope or as bad as you fear.

With a midfield including Griffen, Boyd, and (occasionally) Cooney, with Williams, Lake, Morris and Murphy down back with Jones, Gia and some energy from Dalhaus up front, we will win a few games. It is going to be whether or not we can get a contribution from 'the rest' - Roughead, Liber, DJ, Sherman, Minson, Grant etc that will determine how many.

It is not all doom and gloom...

Agreed and it will really depend on the contribution 'the rest' you mention. If we can get Hawthorn-like improvement from 'the rest' and maintain a healthy list we will play finals next year.


What do you mean by "core strength"?

BD summed it up but in general terms it is the ability to stay upright in tackles and an ability to hit good speed off a few steps. Griffen has this in spades. You can do a number of low repetitions with heavy natural weights (kettle bells, tyres etc.) and build this core strength without putting on an excessive amount of muscle. Think of Ayce as a skinny strong bloke, sounds like an oxymoron but it isn't.

[SlimPickens]

Cordy would never look like Will even if he spent 100 years in the gym, completely different body types.



Agreed and it will really depend on the contribution 'the rest' you mention. If we can get Hawthorn-like improvement from 'the rest' and maintain a healthy list we will play finals next year.



BD summed it up but in general terms it is the ability to stay upright in tackles and an ability to hit good speed off a few steps. Griffen has this in spades. You can do a number of low repetitions with heavy natural weights (kettle bells, tyres etc.) and build this core strength without putting on an excessive amount of muscle. Think of Ayce as a skinny strong bloke, sounds like an oxymoron but it isn't.

Have you read my posts? You're pretty much agreeing with what I originally wrote.

[Greystache]

Cordy would never look like Will even if he spent 100 years in the gym, completely different body types

Will shouldn't look like Will, he's really struggling with mobility.

[Ghost Dog]

3 years of misery. What an optimistic thread...
Did I somehow get re-directed to the Richmond forum?

[LostDoggy]

With a bit of luck we could scrape in the finals next year, worst case about 13/14th. We should improve each year after that.

[LostDoggy]

With a bit of luck we could scrape in the finals next year, worst case about 13/14th. We should improve each year after that.

Sorry to ask where this improvement is going to come from given we will probably lose a number of good experienced players by then?
Who are going to be our A graders?

[ledge]

Sorry to ask where this improvement is going to come from given we will probably lose a number of good experienced players by then?
Who are going to be our A graders?

Libber, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Schofield, Tutt, Jones, Roughead, Cordy.

[ledge]

Oh and I forgot to add the draft picks we get and a kid known as Hunter should be another on the way.

[Mantis]

Libber, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Schofield, Tutt, Jones, Roughead, Cordy.

Have you been drinking 'ledge'?

[bornadog]

Oh and I forgot to add the draft picks we get and a kid known as Hunter should be another on the way.


Have you been drinking 'ledge'?

A graders Ledge, not good ordinary footballers. We need match winners like another Cooney.

[ledge]

Have you been drinking 'ledge'?

Nope but its who we have been pinning our hopes on, even Eade must have been. I refuse to give in.

[ledge]

A graders Ledge, not good ordinary footballers. We need match winners like another Cooney.

Written off as not A graders and now just good ordinary footballers?
Some in their first year of footy, anyone remember Cox first two years at West Coast?

[Mofra]

Libba has all the tools to become an A grader, seems a born footballer

[Sockeye Salmon]

Libber, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Schofield, Tutt, Jones, Roughead, Cordy.

A few years ago that list was Everitt, Hill, Higgins, Grant, Ward and Tiller!

[ledge]

Cain I must say I am dissappointed how some see doom and gloom and its sad its how some players in their first or second year are getting written off so quickly because "the team" had a bad year, these new players need to find their feet.
Dahlhaus will win games for us so will some of the others, in fact I think Dahlhaus has already won us games through his efforts and enthusiasm.
Okay some players are past it but I certainly wont let the kids be put down when some of them have done some remarkable stuff in just their first season in the ones.
I for one love what I see and the future can be very bright, its whats happening upstairs thats the problem.

[Mantis]

Libba has all the tools to become an A grader, seems a born footballer

Yep, full agree with that call.

Jones has some 'A' grade traits, but has a fair bit of work to do over the coming years to get to that stage.

[Ozza]

A few years ago that list was Everitt, Hill, Higgins, Grant, Ward and Tiller!

Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi............it was never Tiller!

[ledge]

A few years ago that list was Everitt, Hill, Higgins, Grant, Ward and Tiller!

This is the most negative of negative posts I have ever seen.
Sockeye seriously Tiller was injury prone, Wards a gun, Hill, Higgins and Grant are still playing seniors and all of them have got us into prelims. Everitts the only one that didnt work so far, thats not a bad record.
And this lot coming through has more talent than these combined I think.
Just remember getting up so high in the ladder for 3 years means we get the dregs in the draft, we have done pretty well.

Where is the Bulldog backing we need now, when times are tough?
The club needs positives not throwing in the towel. woe is us crap.

[SlimPickens]

Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi............it was never Tiller!

Hey Tiller is an A grader....in the SANFL;)

[bornadog]

Yep, full agree with that call.

Jones has some 'A' grade traits, but has a fair bit of work to do over the coming years to get to that stage.

If he replicate the 2nd quarter from last Saturday he may well make it.

I have high hopes for Jones. Grabbing marks like he does is a rarity in todays football.

[Greystache]

This is the most negative of negative posts I have ever seen.
Sockeye seriously Tiller was injury prone, Wards a gun, Hill, Higgins and Grant are still playing seniors and all of them have got us into prelims. Everitts the only one that didnt work so far, thats not a bad record.
And this lot coming through has more talent than these combined I think.
Just remember getting up so high in the ladder for 3 years means we get the dregs in the draft, we have done pretty well.

Where is the Bulldog backing we need now, when times are tough?
The club needs positives not throwing in the towel. woe is us crap.

The point is none of them are A graders.

Tiller- a his best he would struggle to be a B grader.
Ward- B grader who'll be paid like an A grader next year.
Hill- has B grade talent but hasn't lived up to it.
Higgins- average B grader with delusions of A gradeness.
Grant- has A grade talent but C grade work ethic.

Of your list of generic young players on the list who has shown they can be an A grader?

Libba- yes
Jones- looks likely

Dahlhaus- looks promising
Tutt & Schofield- shown a bit but still unknown
Roughead- shows some promise but still a long way off

Wallis- absolutely not.
Cordy- ditto

It's not about writing them off, it's about looking at what they've shown so far to indicate they can be A graders. Just being young doesn't automatically make you good.

[Greystache]

Also only recently people were talking about O'keefe and Boumann being the next superstars of the AFL, neither of them even played a single game.

[LostDoggy]

I can remember Coobey getting bagged heaps in his early years. I agree just because they are young doesn't mean they are going to be A graders, but likewise being young still gives them every chance of becoming A graders.

[ledge]

The point is none of them are A graders.

Tiller- a his best he would struggle to be a B grader.
Ward- B grader who'll be paid like an A grader next year.
Hill- has B grade talent but hasn't lived up to it.
Higgins- average B grader with delusions of A gradeness.
Grant- has A grade talent but C grade work ethic.

Of your list of generic young players on the list who has shown they can be an A grader?

Libba- yes
Jones- looks likely

Dahlhaus- looks promising
Tutt & Schofield- shown a bit but still unknown
Roughead- shows some promise but still a long way off

Wallis- absolutely not.
Cordy- ditto

It's not about writing them off, it's about looking at what they've shown so far to indicate they can be A graders. Just being young doesn't automatically make you good.

So Sockeye asked who will be our next A graders you have named six who could be.
Are you backing his discussion or mine?;)
Certainly a lot more positive than the list he gave from previous years, on that point I think your being positive.
Thats what I like to see.

[ledge]

I can remember Coobey getting bagged heaps in his early years. I agree just because they are young doesn't mean they are going to be A graders, but likewise being young still gives them every chance of becoming A graders.

Exactly and some of what we have seen is good.

[Greystache]

So Sockeye asked who will be our next A graders you have named six who could be.
Are you backing his discussion or mine?;)
Certainly a lot more positive than the list he gave from previous years, on that point I think your being positive.
Thats what I like to see.

Actually I named one that is, one that should be, and one that might, the rest are all unknown.

The point is it's got nothing to do with being negative or positive, it's about being realistic.

[bornadog]

I can remember Coobey getting bagged heaps in his early years. I agree just because they are young doesn't mean they are going to be A graders, but likewise being young still gives them every chance of becoming A graders.

No way, Cooney was alawys going to be an A grader from year one.

[ledge]

No way, Cooney was alawys going to be an A grader from year one.

From your prospective Bornadog but I remember him being accused of fat, lazy and dis interested.

[bornadog]

From your prospective Bornadog but I remember him being accused of fat, lazy and dis interested.

He started his career in 2004 and the first half of the year he was poor but by the end of the year, the last three games he racked up 28 disposals, 25 and 22 and started showing what a gun he was going to be. Yes his body shape was fat, but he worked on that after his first preseason at the end of 2004 into 2005 season.

In 2004 he was ranked 4th amongst rising stars in handballs, disposals, and goals kicked.

[Maddog37]

Isn't it too early to be saying Wallis and Ayce won't be a graders?

[Greystache]

Isn't it too early to be saying Wallis and Ayce won't be a graders?

It would be more logical to say it's too early to say they will be A graders.

[ledge]

He started his career in 2004 and the first half of the year he was poor but by the end of the year, the last three games he racked up 28 disposals, 25 and 22 and started showing what a gun he was going to be. Yes his body shape was fat, but he worked on that after his first preseason at the end of 2004 into 2005 season.

In 2004 he was ranked 4th amongst rising stars in handballs, disposals, and goals kicked.

And Libber, Dahlhaus, Tutt have had better starts but are written off by some as not going to be A graders, go figure.
I am not saying they will or wont be I am just putting forward people write off players before their career has even started.
You dont have to give me stats on Cooney my point was some people wrote him off but he has won a Brownlow and is a good footballer.

Heres what I found over the last year on Woof, at the end of last year and the start of this year team is going well, look how rosey our future is with all these young guns coming in, now we had a bad year all our young guns are good ordinary footballers?

See a pattern? Within a year they arent guns and they only got to play a few games.
I am certainly looking glass half full with talent, others go totally empty in 6 months.

[Maddog37]

It would be more logical to say it's too early to say they will be A graders.



Too early to say either.

[ledge]

Too early to say either.

True but in saying that I support the players thus they will all be guns until it is proven they arent.
Not they are only going to be good ordinary footballers, hope and belief beats negativity and gloom.:D

[Greystache]

Too early to say either.

No it's not, that doesn't make any sense :confused:

Until a player has shown the ability to do so it's rediculous to assume they'll all become A graders. By definition most players don't develop into A grade players.

[Maddog37]

Makes sense to me not to assume either way until the facts are available Stache.

I confess a leaning towards positivity in most things though.

[Ozza]

Hey Tiller is an A grader....in the SANFL;)

I very much doubt Tiller is an A Grader in the SANFL!

[Greystache]

I very much doubt Tiller is an A Grader in the SANFL!

There's a thread on him on the State board.

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=8937

[ledge]

No it's not, that doesn't make any sense :confused:

Until a player has shown the ability to do so it's rediculous to assume they'll all become A graders. By definition most players don't develop into A grade players.

99.9% of players are A graders in the lower grade its how they get to the AFL, its if they can get up one more notch is the question and you cant judge on one broken season getting the body and mind right, sadly some people do.
A variety of other things also come into it,moving from home, coaches style , where they play them, are they happy?
18 years of age is a hell of a lot to adjust to.
To me its ridiculous to assume they wont be.
One year is no way to judge a player in my opinion I also think its the AFLs as you must serve 2 years minimum.

[Greystache]

99.9% of players are A graders in the lower grade its how they get to the AFL, its if they can get up one more notch is the question and you cant judge on one broken season getting the body and mind right, sadly some people do.
A variety of other things also come into it,moving from home, coaches style , where they play them, are they happy?
18 years of age is a hell of a lot to adjust to.
To me its ridiculous to assume they wont be.
One year is no way to judge a player in my opinion I also think its the AFLs as you must serve 2 years minimum.

I don't think I can find the words to even begin with this post....

[Hotdog60]

Don't worry if one of our young players loks like being an A grader GWS will get them next year.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Don't worry if one of our young players loks like being an A grader GWS will get them next year.

No they won't, they aren't allowed.

Free agency will come in, Carlton will take someone instead

[Dancin' Douggy]

He started his career in 2004 and the first half of the year he was poor but by the end of the year, the last three games he racked up 28 disposals, 25 and 22 and started showing what a gun he was going to be. Yes his body shape was fat, but he worked on that after his first preseason at the end of 2004 into 2005 season.

In 2004 he was ranked 4th amongst rising stars in handballs, disposals, and goals kicked.

I just love the line " his body shape was fat".

[bornadog]

And Libber, Dahlhaus, Tutt have had better starts but are written off by some as not going to be A graders, go figure.
I am not saying they will or wont be I am just putting forward people write off players before their career has even started.
You dont have to give me stats on Cooney my point was some people wrote him off but he has won a Brownlow and is a good footballer.

Heres what I found over the last year on Woof, at the end of last year and the start of this year team is going well, look how rosey our future is with all these young guns coming in, now we had a bad year all our young guns are good ordinary footballers?

See a pattern? Within a year they arent guns and they only got to play a few games.
I am certainly looking glass half full with talent, others go totally empty in 6 months.

I mostly agree, all I am saying is Cooney was the number one draft pick so people saw his talent before he became an AFL A Grader. Of the young guys we have, none of them are number one draft picks, so at this stage we don't really know if they will turn out to be an A Grader.

[w3design]

I can't believe everyone on here predicting all this doom and gloom....
Can anyone on here honestly say that they predicted West Coast to finish top 4 this year...

[ledge]

I am with you Woody ,irks me how our own fans write us off and also write off individual players who are just coming through.
I for one am here to back my team and the players.

[LostDoggy]

I am with you Woody ,irks me how our own fans write us off and also write off individual players who are just coming through.
I for one am here to back my team and the players.

I'm going with the reality we are consigned to 2-3 year of hard labour as supporters. It's always fun to find the future stars in these troughs though so there's still a reason to turn up each week. I'm also looking forward to seeing what we can pick up in the 2012 draft assuming we bottom out (bottom 4-6) next year which seems likely.

[Maddog37]

We had a totally crap year with injuries etc yet still nearly figured in finals. Bottoming out would seem a fairly unlikely outcome. We lose Baz and Ward and Huddo. Lake may be back Coon may have more impact and a few kids may improve. Maybe a better year with injuries overall.

Gilbee and Shaggy may have better years form wise as well. Lots of variables and I am happy to enjoy the ride and see how it unfolds.

[comrade]

We had a totally crap year with injuries etc yet still nearly figured in finals. Bottoming out would seem a fairly unlikely outcome. We lose Baz and Ward and Huddo. Lake may be back Coon may have more impact and a few kids may improve. Maybe a better year with injuries overall.

Gilbee and Shaggy may have better years form wise as well. Lots of variables and I am happy to enjoy the ride and see how it unfolds.

Gilbee and Shaggy shouldn't even be on the list next year.

[bold-dogg]

Take Cooney and Griff out of the equation as anybody would have recruited them, what are we left with in that age group? And the real question is who was the great recruiter over that period?