Smorgon Leadership Challenge update

[Cyberdoggie]

The AFL website has posted an article on the Dimmatina - Smorgon challenge.
Very interesting timing this is. I wonder if this will have any effect on coaching apointments etc.



Smorgon Leadership Challenge (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/122313/default.aspx)

By Ashley Browne 10:40 AM Wed 31 Aug, 2011


Western Bulldogs president David Smorgon may face a challenge

THE AGE sets its sights on the Western Bulldogs on Wednesday with two bits of news.

The first was the most definitive report yet that that emerging midfield star Callan Ward was off to Greater Western Sydney.

This wasn't just informed speculation. Jake Niall's piece was written as if the deal was done and it will be worth between $750,000 and $800,000 per year.

The Bulldogs, long resigned to losing Ward it must be added, gave him their final pitch last week but the offer fell well short of what he could expect to receive from the AFL's newest club.

The formal announcement is expected next week and at this stage Ward will play for the Bulldogs in their final game of the season against Fremantle at Etihad Stadium on Saturday.

Also out west comes news that a ticket to challenge long-standing Western Bulldogs president David Smorgon is being formed and will be in shape in the next two weeks.

Former player now restaurateur Paul Dimattina is the powerbroker behind the challenge and while he has no intention of seeking the presidency, it is reported the new ticket wants director Susan Alberti to assume the top job at the Whitten Oval.

''The key is the money," a source told The Age. "We reckon we have put enough together. David has put out the challenge to put up or shut up, so hopefully we will be in a position to come out in the next week or two, which will please every Bulldogs' member.''

Talk of a ticket to challenge Smorgon has been in the air for a couple of years and the Bulldog president has long called for any would-be challengers to declare themselves so that the members of the club can best decide who should take the club forward. That day might now be not far away.

[ledge]

Sorgan? I thought it was another big sponsor challenge ;)

[Throughandthrough]

SmorgOn

[G-Mo77]

This time last year I would have laughed at the suggestion of replacing Smorgon now I firmly believe that a change is needed.

[Cyberdoggie]

Whoops, a typo as well.

Really shouldn't be posting new threads when trying to pay attention in phone conferences

[Ghost Dog]

First female AFL president. Let's do it
Thanks Dave, but the time has come for change IMO

[FrediKanoute]

Its come a little late though. Had the challenge occurred earlier in the season we may still have Eade as coach and who knows may have retained Ward.....that said, Smorgon has done a wonderful job, but just as coaches have used by dates so too do Presidents.

[LostDoggy]

I agree. Smorgon has been great but in his own words we need to refresh.
There is a school of thought in business that 7-8 years is the lifetime of an effetive manager and I think that we need some fresh blood.

[Rocco Jones]

Yep, 'refresh' time.

We sacked a coach who was once very good and now we need to sack our president who was once very good.

[w3design]

Have I missed the part where Dimattina explains exactly which aspects of the club's performance need to be addressed, and how?

[Rocco Jones]

Have I missed the part where Dimattina explains exactly which aspects of the club's performance need to be addressed, and how?

Paul Dimattina's 'campaign' is very Tony Abbott like. Get the masses so worked up by hammering a poor leader at any time possible that they don't care that you don't have any of substance to say for yourself.

[Sedat]

Paul Dimattina's 'campaign' is very Tony Abbott like. Get the masses so worked up by hammering a poor leader at any time possible that they don't care that you don't have any of substance to say for yourself.
If he can deliver Susan Alberti and a group of quality board members with strong business acumen who can significantly eradicate our debt, that would be a nice start. But yeah, he's been all froth and no cappuccino thus far.

[Rocco Jones]

If he can deliver Susan Alberti and a group of quality board members with strong business acumen who can significantly eridate our debt, that would be a nice start. But yeah, he's been all froth and no cappucino thus far.

Totally agree. I see him as justifiable means to a desired end.

[Doc26]

Funny, I had always viewed Susan as one of David's allies.

I haven't quite joined the dots within this supposed ticket.

[Remi Moses]

Agree with the sentiments that Smorgon's time might be up.
Done a wonderful job, but we need a refresh from the top.

[westdog54]

And yet this from the Herald Sun:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/lawyer-stary-in-top-dog-chat/story-e6frf9jf-1226126898962


Key board member Sue Alberti, a significant financial backer of the club, yesterday reacted angrily to reports she was seen as Dimattina's ideal replacement for Smorgon.

"I am disappointed by

reports today that link me to a potential board challenge," Alberti said.

"I want to reiterate my absolute support and commitment to David Smorgon and the current Western Bulldogs board."

Who knows what's really going on? I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

[LostDoggy]

And yet this from the Herald Sun:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/lawyer-stary-in-top-dog-chat/story-e6frf9jf-1226126898962



Who knows what's really going on? I'm not sure what to believe anymore.
This is why Dimma is really starting to piss me off, I take Susan Alberti's word. Would rather hear her speak the words than read a reporters version of words. As I wrote in a previous pot I am sure David Smorgon woud be ore than happy if Susan wanted the president job.

[Greystache]

And yet this from the Herald Sun:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/lawyer-stary-in-top-dog-chat/story-e6frf9jf-1226126898962



Who knows what's really going on? I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

I'd believe Sue Alberti's version, she's always appeared to support Smorgon, and i don't see why that would change. From the outside it seemed she was Smorgon's likely successor as it was.

[Mantis]

I'd believe Sue Alberti's version, she's always appeared to support Smorgon, and i don't see why that would change. From the outside it seemed she was Smorgon's likely successor as it was.

I got that feeling too, but when is this likely to happen?

Smorgo keeps saying 2 more years, 2 more years... at what point does Susie say enough is enough David, let me have a go.

[Greystache]

I got that feeling too, but when is this likely to happen?

Smorgo keeps saying 2 more years, 2 more years... at what point does Susie say enough is enough David, let me have a go.

He's publicly stated this will be his last term, so assuming the handover takes place like we think, she'd become president in 2014, with her presence becoming more apparent during 2013.

I don't see his position changing on that given he's been so open about it.

[bornadog]

He's publicly stated this will be his last term, so assuming the handover takes place like we think, she'd become president in 2014, with her presence becoming more apparent during 2013.

I don't see his position changing on that given he's been so open about it.

Unless an extraordinary general meeting his held.

[ledge]

He has also said he would gladly step aside if someone else came along.

[neddie]

I'd believe Sue Alberti's version, she's always appeared to support Smorgon, and i don't see why that would change. From the outside it seemed she was Smorgon's likely successor as it was.

'"Beware the Ides of March"

[azabob]

He's publicly stated this will be his last term, so assuming the handover takes place like we think, she'd become president in 2014, with her presence becoming more apparent during 2013.

I don't see his position changing on that given he's been so open about it.

Problem is stache he has hinted / publicly said things like this before.

Understandably Smorgon has tried to hang on till we won a premiership, but he should approach Alberti and offer to step aside and ask her to take his place.

Another thought is perhaps she isn't interested in taking over as Smorgon has previously indicated?

[Rocco Jones]

I have a lot of trust and faith in Alberti.

I am sure Alberti isn't in cahoots with Dimma. I believe Dimma either sees her as the best option, thinks she will be more a 'pushover' than Smorgo (whether that be to become prez himself or get what he wants as a board member) or a combo of both.

[comrade]

All this BS political jousting has me convinced we are hurtling towards Richmond territory at a frightening rate of knots.

We're so far away from a premiership, it's depressing.

[Remi Moses]

It's the first time in 15 years the club has had issues.
A couple of chrisis's away from Richmond ( chrisis's ?)

[hujsh]

I don;t think I've ever felt so down about the club before even in the 2003/4 years. From the outside looking in I've never thought the club looked like more of a rabble.

[LostDoggy]

He has also said he would gladly step aside if someone else came along.

Heard that line a 100 times. It's a cop out. Either he wants to do it or he doesn't. Someone will put there hand up, the president is not bigger than the club.

He wants to stay make no mistake.

[LostDoggy]

David Smorgon is talking to social club members in the Victory room at 1:40pm Saturday.
I would suggest any social club members that maybe bagging David go along and hear what he has to say and have their say, instead of all the behind the back stuff that is going on.

[LostDoggy]

David Smorgan is talking to social club members in the Victory room at 1:40pm Saturday.
I would suggest any social club members that maybe bagging David go along and hear what he has to say and have their say, instead of all the behind the back stuff that is going on.
His record speaks for itself. 15 years as president, still no premiership.

[LostDoggy]

His record speaks for itself. 15 years as president, still no premiership.

Just a small update Chops ....... The President isnt an actual player. His role is to oversee the business aspect of the club. He can contribute to putting the people in place that go out onto the field ...... but he cant physically go out there and win one for the club .... that is up to the actual players.

[chef]

Just a small update Chops ....... The President isnt an actual player. His role is to oversee the business aspect of the club.

Which is to win premierships;)

[LostDoggy]

Just a small update Chops ....... The President isnt an actual player. His role is to oversee the business aspect of the club. He can contribute to putting the people in place that go out onto the field ...... but he cant physically go out there and win one for the club .... that is up to the actual players.

What chef said. In his reign we have had 3 coaches, many assistants, a number of CEOs, numerous admin staff and heaps of players. The buck stops with him.

[Rocco Jones]

His record speaks for itself. 15 years as president, still no premiership.

Just like Eade.

Both should be gone.

[AndrewP6]

[B]
David Smorgan is talking to social club members in the Victory room at 1:40pm Saturday.[B]
I would suggest any social club members that maybe bagging David go along and hear what he has to say and have their say, instead of all the behind the back stuff that is going on.

No he's not. David SMORGON is.

[Rocco Jones]

[B]

No he's not. David SMORGON is.

I believe it's actually David Smorgon.

[AndrewP6]

I believe it's actually David Smorgon.

Capitalised for emphasis :)

[LostDoggy]

Just like Eade.

Both should be gone.
I know you like to push your views but this isnt an Eade thread. Besides only half of the 15 was at our club

[Rocco Jones]

I know you like to push your views but this isnt an Eade thread. Besides only half of the 15 was at our club

I sure do like to push my views but boy is that the pot calling the kettle black!

So 15 years as a president without a premiership = should be gone

but 15 years as a coach and no premiership= OK because not all of them were at the same club.

If 15 years without a premiership isn't good enough than it doesn't matter how many clubs you've been at. Also, a premiership is surely more important for a coach than a president.

[westdog54]

I sure do like to push my views but boy is that the pot calling the kettle black!

So 15 years as a president without a premiership = should be gone

but 15 years as a coach and no premiership= OK because not all of them were at the same club.

If 15 years without a premiership isn't good enough than it doesn't matter how many clubs you've been at. Also, a premiership is surely more important for a coach than a president.


Without saying Smorgon is the right man for the job I agree with this.

If the comment had've been something along the lines of '15 years and still poor management off the field' then it would have been fair enough. But to have the premiership buck stop with the president is out of line.

[Rocco Jones]

Without saying Smorgon is the right man for the job I agree with this.

If the comment had've been something along the lines of '15 years and still poor management off the field' then it would have been fair enough. But to have the premiership buck stop with the president is out of line.

I actually agree W54. I was just replying to Ernie's comment about 15 years without a premiership = gone. If it means that for a Prez, surely it means that for a coach with one over the same time period, no matter how many stints he had.

[ledge]

I wouldnt call Smorgon unsuccessful, he is the business side of the club, we are ultimately in the best shape ever off the ground.
A lot of Presidents arent football savvy, being at a low profit club his main job is to get the club on its feet, he has been awesome.
Now we are a bit better off its time to look at the football side of things, list manager etc.
Demetriou has also noticed this point with lower clubs struggling with that side of things and he has said clubs will now spend money on football departments.
Maybe Eades timing of coming to the club was 2 or 3 years too early.

[LostDoggy]

I actually agree W54. I was just replying to Ernie's comment about 15 years without a premiership = gone. If it means that for a Prez, surely it means that for a coach with one over the same time period, no matter how many stints he had.

Again you might be right but this isnt a coaching thread and we are talking about our club not others.
I'm sure the president aims for the premiership in his reign. He has done plenty right but must take some of the blame for not having achieved one of his main goals.

[BulldogBelle]

Western Bulldogs president David Smorgon inks social club deal

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-president-david-smorgon-inks-social-club-deal/story-e6frf9io-1226128745151

2 points in this story that I like

1) THE Western Bulldogs will reap an extra $1 million in annual revenue when their social club at Edgewater near the Whitten Oval is opened at the end of next year.

2) Smorgon announced the appointment of former Myer CFO Gary Kent as a new board member - move in the right direction getting someone with quite a bit of financial acumen to the club

[Remi Moses]

Western Bulldogs president David Smorgon inks social club deal

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-president-david-smorgon-inks-social-club-deal/story-e6frf9io-1226128745151

2 points in this story that I like

1) THE Western Bulldogs will reap an extra $1 million in annual revenue when their social club at Edgewater near the Whitten Oval is opened at the end of next year.

2) Smorgon announced the appointment of former Myer CFO Gary Kent as a new board member - move in the right direction getting someone with quite a bit of financial acumen to the club
Great news, I just reckon we might need a change. Hoping a bloodless Coup occurs but not sure.

[bornadog]

Western Bulldogs president David Smorgon inks social club deal

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-president-david-smorgon-inks-social-club-deal/story-e6frf9io-1226128745151

2 points in this story that I like

1) THE Western Bulldogs will reap an extra $1 million in annual revenue when their social club at Edgewater near the Whitten Oval is opened at the end of next year.

2) Smorgon announced the appointment of former Myer CFO Gary Kent as a new board member - move in the right direction getting someone with quite a bit of financial acumen to the club

Went to the social club before the game and Smorgon gave the same speech. He mentioned the club was going to establish a register where if anyone wants to be on the board they can put down their name and the club will asses their ability to be a board member.

[azabob]

Top Dog: Dimattina to challenge for Bulldogs presidency

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/top-dog-dimattina-to-challenge-for-bulldogs-presidency-20120919-266zn.html#ixzz26uZ8n2ve


Here we go again.

[LostDoggy]

Good on Dimattina for sticking his neck out. I think Smorgon has been absolutely fantastic but even he has flagged its time for a change. I'm not saying Dimma is the man for the job, buts let see a few different options and a real election where the members get some kind of say in our clubs future.

[Greystache]

Top Dog: Dimattina to challenge for Bulldogs presidency

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/top-dog-dimattina-to-challenge-for-bulldogs-presidency-20120919-266zn.html#ixzz26uZ8n2ve


Here we go again.

Looking for some more free advertising for the business. Waiting for his dad to start making some noise about a big deal with Richmond that never eventuates either.

[G-Mo77]

Smorgon has always said if someone wants to take his job then step up. I really hope Dimma has taken on that challenge. I love what Smorgon has done but he's stepping down after next season anyway, if he's moved aside one year early I wouldn't have any problems with it and I doubt Smorgon will either.

[bornadog]

Smorgon has always said if someone wants to take his job then step up. I really hope Dimma has taken on that challenge. I love what Smorgon has done but he's stepping down after next season anyway, if he's moved aside one year early I wouldn't have any problems with it and I doubt Smorgon will either.

Yes you are right about that.

Love this bit:


If he was to win power, it's believed Dimattina would ensure the Bulldogs fielded a stand-alone VFL team in 2014 and would name this club, Footscray, as the Bulldogs had been known until 1997.
The Bulldogs' current VFL affiliate is Williamstown.
It is understood Dimattina has a group of businessmen backing him, most of whom would require a seat on the board. But this group does not include former players. Those close to Dimattina maintain he is ready to handle any challenge Smorgon throws at him and he has the capital to invest in the club, an area Smorgon challenged him on last year.
The Dimattina camp had originally wanted Chris Grant, who is currently football director, to become president but the former champion forward does not have the time.

I think we need a change, especially after the year we have had.

[Desipura]

Yes you are right about that.

Love this bit:



I think we need a change, especially after the year we have had.
The bit you love in the article is the bit that tells me he probably is not the right person for the job.
You think changing the name back to Footscray is needed?
This will be a wrong move that will set us back even further.

Why would someone who is new to the game that has moved into Point Cook for eg want to associate with a club called Footscray? A suburb that has not got the best reputation.
The name change will predominantly please the old people, leave the name as is as it associates with the whole Western Region.

As they say, this is why the windscreen of your car is bigger than the review mirror.

[GVGjr]

The bit you love in the article is the bit that tells me he probably is not the right person for the job.
You think changing the name back to Footscray is needed?
This will be a wrong move that will set us back even further.
Why would someone who is new to the game that has moved into Point Cook for eg want to associate with a club called Footscray? A suburb that has not got the best reputation.
The name change will predominantly please the old people, leave the name as is as it associates with the whole Western Region.

Changing back to Footscray will get some support but you're right, it won't really mean much and won't help us gain additional support in the public.

Dimma has been very good at floating his name each year for the top job but he hasn't stepped up in anyway.

Does this guy tick any of the boxes for the President of our club? Personally I don't see it.

[azabob]

Desi, GvG, Maybe I misunderstand your posts but I read the quote as our stand alone team will be called Footscray. Having that it would cause some confusion and most likely will be the first step to a name change for the entire club.

[ReLoad]

The name of the VFL team is basically irrelevant. What I want to know is what he is going to do at the club, what his short and long term club goals are and what he brings to the table. (apart from great pasta)

[westdog54]

Desi, GvG, Maybe I misunderstand your posts but I read the quote as our stand alone team will be called Footscray. Having that it would cause some confusion and most likely will be the first step to a name change for the entire club.

The way I read it is that the club itself will be called Footscray again.

I'm thinking along the same lines as GVG here. Is he really President material?

I wonder how much support for Dimma is coming from the desire for change?

[chef]

The bit you love in the article is the bit that tells me he probably is not the right person for the job.
You think changing the name back to Footscray is needed?
This will be a wrong move that will set us back even further.

Why would someone who is new to the game that has moved into Point Cook for eg want to associate with a club called Footscray? A suburb that has not got the best reputation.
The name change will predominantly please the old people, leave the name as is as it associates with the whole Western Region.

As they say, this is why the windscreen of your car is bigger than the review mirror.

He doesn't want to change the name back(or at least I hope he doesn't as that would be madness), he wants our VFL side to be called Footscray. That's how I read it anyway.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I read it as our standalone VFL club being named Footscray.
Whether that is a pre cursor to, or testing the water for a name change at AFL level I don't know
However, that he is even considering this at the VFL level as one of his main priorities makes me think he's not the right person for the job.
There are more important things that should take priority to naming our own VFL side Footscray.
I really hoped that a more well heeled and more credentialed candidate would emerge to replace Smorgon than Dimma.

[Mantis]

There are more important things that should take priority to naming our own VFL side Footscray.

Like how we are even going to fund this team?

And how we can grow our brand, membership numbers and revenue streams so that we aren't being propped up by the AFL who are likely to slit our throats if needed.


I really hoped that a more well heeled and more credentialed candidate would emerge to replace Smorgon than Dimma.

Yep.

Not a fan of this challenge at all.... Agree that we need a successor to Smorgon who has run his race, but from the little I know Dimma isn't the man for the job.

[LostDoggy]

Is Dimma a healer of people? Can he bring people together? Is he a natural leader? Is he a good listener? Can he inspire?

It's a whole lot more than just bringing businessmen and money to the club.

Anything less and we can quickly descend into bitter in fighting.

Very important for our future direction that we get this one right.

Was not Alberti Smorgon's candidate of choice some time ago?

[bornadog]

Dimma has been very good at floating his name each year for the top job but he hasn't stepped up in anyway.

Does this guy tick any of the boxes for the President of our club? Personally I don't see it.

His name popped up last year and Garlick asked him to back off as the timing wasn't right.

None of us know whether he ticks the boxes, but sounds like he has some ideas we should listen to.

If we have a VFL team, I prefer not to be called Footscray, but doesn't fuss me either.

[bornadog]

The bit you love in the article is the bit that tells me he probably is not the right person for the job.
You think changing the name back to Footscray is needed?
This will be a wrong move that will set us back even further.

Why would someone who is new to the game that has moved into Point Cook for eg want to associate with a club called Footscray? A suburb that has not got the best reputation.
The name change will predominantly please the old people, leave the name as is as it associates with the whole Western Region.

As they say, this is why the windscreen of your car is bigger than the review mirror.

If you read the article you would see he was talking about the VFL side being called Footscray.

The bit I liked was bringing to the table some successful business people with money.

Smorgon has done a fantastic job for the club, but its time for a change.

[bornadog]

Is Dimma a healer of people? Can he bring people together? Is he a natural leader? Is he a good listener? Can he inspire?

It's a whole lot more than just bringing businessmen and money to the club.

Anything less and we can quickly descend into bitter in fighting.

Very important for our future direction that we get this one right.

Was not Alberti Smorgon's candidate of choice some time ago?

Is Alberti?

[LostDoggy]

The bit you love in the article is the bit that tells me he probably is not the right person for the job.
You think changing the name back to Footscray is needed?
This will be a wrong move that will set us back even further.

Why would someone who is new to the game that has moved into Point Cook for eg want to associate with a club called Footscray? A suburb that has not got the best reputation.
The name change will predominantly please the old people, leave the name as is as it associates with the whole Western Region.

As they say, this is why the windscreen of your car is bigger than the review mirror.

Spot on Desi. I'm all for respecting tradition, but not when it impedes future progress. Changing the name of the Bulldogs, whilst painful for those of us who remember the 'Scray, was the best thing this club has done in 50 years, for the exact reasons you specified.


If you read the article you would see he was talking about the VFL side being called Footscray.

The bit I liked was bringing to the table some successful business people with money.

Smorgon has done a fantastic job for the club, but its time for a change.

Bringing people with money is one thing, but how much are they committed to actually spending on the club? That might sound a stupid question, but I'd be afraid of a group of businessmen waving money at a club like ours, effectively holding the club to ransom to ensure every decision is their way or the highway. Paying off the debt would be fantastic, but I'd be more interested in what their ideas were to grow the club's finances organically. Smorgon has plenty of cash. Having a fat wallet does not make you a good administrator of a football club.


Why do people think Dimma isn't the man for the job?

I think his reputation and integrity took a hit during the 2011 stoush. I don't want a man who won't put his money where his mouth is. I'm not sure that's the case, I don't know what was happening behind the scenes, but I'm hesitant until I know otherwise.

That's just speaking for myself, of course.

A better question: Why do you think Dimma is the man for the job?

[Desipura]

If you read the article you would see he was talking about the VFL side being called Footscray.

The bit I liked was bringing to the table some successful business people with money.

Smorgon has done a fantastic job for the club, but its time for a change.
I did read the article and come to the same conclusion that he would look to change the name back to Footscray.

[LostDoggy]

Why do people think Dimma isn't the man for the job?

Exactly. I know very little about the man aside from the fact that he has been successful in business, however there must be some other qualities he possesses to even be considered.

[LostDoggy]

I think going back to Footscray would be silly. It would show that we think we've failed and are all over the place in where want to head.

[bornadog]

I did read the article and come to the same conclusion that he would look to change the name back to Footscray.

I don't believe you can read:D


If he was to win power, it's believed Dimattina would ensure the Bulldogs fielded a stand-alone VFL team in 2014 and would name this club, Footscray, as the Bulldogs had been known until 1997.

[jeemak]

Why do people think Dimma isn't the man for the job?

Probably because they haven't seen evidence of his ability to run businesses other than restaurants.

He may well be a very capable people manager, and he might have skills to make him capable of running a diverse business such as a football club.

I haven't seen that though, but I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.

[LostDoggy]

The way I read it. Dimma has more passion now for the club than Smorgan has displayed in the last 12 months. Can't be a bad thing.

[LostDoggy]

Probably because they haven't seen evidence of his ability to run businesses other than restaurants.

He may well be a very capable people manager, and he might have skills to make him capable of running a diverse business such as a football club.

I haven't seen that though, but I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.

Without seeing him in the role not sure you can judge that. I believe Peter Gordon had little to no experience outside Slater & Gordon when he started.

[LostDoggy]

Is Alberti?

I don't know. That's why I was asking the questions.

[LostDoggy]

Bringing people with money is one thing, but how much are they committed to actually spending on the club? That might sound a stupid question, but I'd be afraid of a group of businessmen waving money at a club like ours, effectively holding the club to ransom to ensure every decision is their way or the highway. Paying off the debt would be fantastic, but I'd be more interested in what their ideas were to grow the club's finances organically. Smorgon has plenty of cash. Having a fat wallet does not make you a good administrator of a football club.

I think his reputation and integrity took a hit during the 2011 stoush. I don't want a man who won't put his money where his mouth is. I'm not sure that's the case, I don't know what was happening behind the scenes, but I'm hesitant until I know otherwise.

That's just speaking for myself, of course.

A better question: Why do you think Dimma is the man for the job?
Cos we need a change. We are going nowhere at the moment.
Dimma might not be the best candidate but we if continue down the same path we will lose more members, stangnate on field and make it harder to challenge again.

Im interested your money view. Saying Dimma didn't put his money where his mouth is but 17 years of Smorgon hasn't really secured our financials either.

[bornadog]

Cos we need a change. We are going nowhere at the moment.
Dimma might not be the best candidate but we if continue down the same path we will lose more members, stangnate on field and make it harder to challenge again.

Im interested your money view. Saying Dimma didn't put his money where his mouth is but 17 years of Smorgon hasn't really secured our financials either.

I don't believe Smorgon put much money in personally (I can't prove that, just what I have been told) and he was touted as having lots of business connections but we still have a debt of $4 million.

[Mofra]

Why do people think Dimma isn't the man for the job?
Maybe they've met him.

He'd be a very tough President (which may actually be a good thing for us) I'm not sure how easy he would be to deal with. Face to face "he makes Dermot Brereton sound modest & humble".

He did back off when asked to by Garlick, so perhaps that's a positive.

A shame that Susan Alberti doesn't seem to want it.

[bulldogsman]

The way I read it. Dimma has more passion now for the club than Smorgan has displayed in the last 12 months. Can't be a bad thing.

Yep this is how I read it also. Smorgan wanted to step down a while ago, but nobody wanted to step up. No idea if Dimma is the right man for the job (don't know enough), but he's certainly passionate enough at least.

We do need a change.

[Murphy'sLore]

Just heard Dimma on SEN denying any interest in taking over. So much for that then.

[BulldogBelle]

I can't believe how some of our more experienced posters definitively rule out Dimma as a good president as if they have personally dealt with him.
The answer is we are not sure, but I subscribe to the theory that a change is not all together bad, and if he doesn't work out, then at least we'd have shaken up the sediments of our footy club that had settled in the twilight of Smorgon's presidency.

For those that hate how we'e been AFL lap dogs in the past and have done our best to shun confrontation with them (stadium deals, Minson mum rape debacle, etc, etc), I think you will find Dimma will provide a point of difference.

Also, Dimma is a lot more successful than people think. His business interests are not publicly listed and so most people's knowledge of his wealth and influence would be no greater than what they read in the paper. Lets just say that he has a bit more width and breadth than 'pasta' as one poster put it and he also has more strings to his bow than running a restaurant.

I have no issues with his ability to mobilise people and resources.
The only area that I'm unsure of is whether he can generate media about the club and keep us in the mind of the public... (then again, not sure to what extent a president is responsible for this).

[jeemak]

The way I read it. Dimma has more passion now for the club than Smorgan has displayed in the last 12 months. Can't be a bad thing.


Yep this is how I read it also. Smorgan wanted to step down a while ago, but nobody wanted to step up. No idea if Dimma is the right man for the job (don't know enough), but he's certainly passionate enough at least.

We do need a change.

I'd be a little cautious of measuring passion by what one might say or what is reported in the media.

Agree that Smorgon has been quieter this year, though I believe that was a conscious change from those previous.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe they've met him.

He'd be a very tough President (which may actually be a good thing for us) I'm not sure how easy he would be to deal with. Face to face "he makes Dermot Brereton sound modest & humble".

He did back off when asked to by Garlick, so perhaps that's a positive.

A shame that Susan Alberti doesn't seem to want it.

He is not like that at all. Very softly spoken and far from an "out there up front" sort of person.

He is completely the opposite to Smorgon who is such an impressive handler of the media and an excellent public speaker.

I would see Dimma as a back room type of operator rather than being the out front spokesman for the club.

[jeemak]

Without seeing him in the role not sure you can judge that. I believe Peter Gordon had little to no experience outside Slater & Gordon when he started.

That's like saying give the guy a scalpel and let him prove he can be a surgeon!

OK, maybe that's a little dramatic. All I was suggesting was that beyond running successful restaurants we're not sure about his business acumen. Agree that Gordon was untried, though I would hazard a guess that one might be exposed to more dirverse business in his chosen profession than a restaurateur might be.

I suppose the most important thing for an inexperienced president to do is surround himself with excellent business minds, that can work cohesively towards a common good. If Dimma can do that, and bring an entrepreneurial element to the task then great.

[LongWait]

I think a few people have missed the point that Smorgon has volunteered to step down and agrees that a change at the top will be good. David has also said he is very open to standing down sooner rather than later provided the Board supports the proposed new President.

Whether Dimmatina is the right person to be our next President is an entirely different matter. Do we really have any idea what he stands for (apart from a stand-alone VFL team); what his Board experience is; who are the faceless Business people who will join him on the Board? Lots of questions and no answers at the moment.

[dadsgirl16]

He has just been on SEN...says The Age report is incorrect

Has been interviewed by sub committee and thats it

[Cyberdoggie]

He has just been on SEN...says The Age report is incorrect

Has been interviewed by sub committee and thats it

Yeah he said the Hun article was accurate and the Age wasn't.

[Ghost Dog]

I think a few people have missed the point that Smorgon has volunteered to step down and agrees that a change at the top will be good. David has also said he is very open to standing down sooner rather than later provided the Board supports the proposed new President.

Whether Dimmatina is the right person to be our next President is an entirely different matter. Do we really have any idea what he stands for (apart from a stand-alone VFL team); what his Board experience is; who are the faceless Business people who will join him on the Board? Lots of questions and no answers at the moment.

What does he stand for? Played 130 games for us. Prepared to sink his money into the club. Successful businessman. Early days, but a lot to like there.

[SlimPickens]

What does he stand for? Played 130 games for us. Prepared to sink his money into the club. Successful businessman. Early days, but a lot to like there.

Is he really prepared to sink his money in however? It's always been smoke and mirrors with dimma, I'm in the i'll believe it when I see it camp.

[bornadog]

Is he really prepared to sink his money in however? It's always been smoke and mirrors with dimma, I'm in the i'll believe it when I see it camp.

Why do you say smoke and mirrors? is that from what you read in the paper?

[LostDoggy]

Agree that Smorgon has been quieter this year, though I believe that was a conscious change from those previous.

Well if that's a conscious change then that's worked very poorly.

[LostDoggy]

That's like saying give the guy a scalpel and let him prove he can be a surgeon!

OK, maybe that's a little dramatic. All I was suggesting was that beyond running successful restaurants we're not sure about his business acumen. Agree that Gordon was untried, though I would hazard a guess that one might be exposed to more dirverse business in his chosen profession than a restaurateur might be.

I suppose the most important thing for an inexperienced president to do is surround himself with excellent business minds, that can work cohesively towards a common good. If Dimma can do that, and bring an entrepreneurial element to the task then great.

Except he ain't doing surgery. Frank Costa was a fruitier yet one of the most successful presidents of recent times.
What experience did Steve Kernahan have?
Smorgon had no experience as a football president either.

[LostDoggy]

I'd be a little cautious of measuring passion by what one might say or what is reported in the media.

Agree that Smorgon has been quieter this year, though I believe that was a conscious change from those previous.

I've had a few supporters of other clubs ask me during the season if David is still our president. This seems to be due to the fact they are so used to him being not only the face and voice of our club but also being the unofficial spokesman for the presidents of smaller clubs on AFL issues.

I think we need a strong vocal President who will champion the club and create awareness of the good thiongs the club has done and continues to do in the community. Although far from being out of the woods, we are not the struggling organisation we once were and I think that gets lost when we don't perform well on the field.

[Remi Moses]

Except he ain't doing surgery. Frank Costa was a fruitier yet one of the most successful presidents of recent times.
What experience did Steve Kernahan have?
Smorgon had no experience as a football president either.

Agree, Smorgon's been on the departure lounge for a while now.
Not sure after the Ratten Malthouse soap opera I'd be putting Kernahan up front as an example. Kernahan admitted he had "blood on his hands" re Ratts, yet didn't resign.

[jeemak]

That's like saying give the guy a scalpel and let him prove he can be a surgeon!

OK, maybe that's a little dramatic. All I was suggesting was that beyond running successful restaurants we're not sure about his business acumen. Agree that Gordon was untried, though I would hazard a guess that one might be exposed to more dirverse business in his chosen profession than a restaurateur might be.

I suppose the most important thing for an inexperienced president to do is surround himself with excellent business minds, that can work cohesively towards a common good. If Dimma can do that, and bring an entrepreneurial element to the task then great.


Except he ain't doing surgery. Frank Costa was a fruitier yet one of the most successful presidents of recent times.
What experience did Steve Kernahan have?
Smorgon had no experience as a football president either.

I think I've plainly admitted an exagerration Chops, and also a means by which an innexperienced president might be able flourish in the role.

Interesting you raise Costa, as he would be the first to admit putting Cook in the driver's seat was the best thing he could have done for Geelong. Having said that, I think you might be selling him a little short by labelling him a fruiterer.

[Guido]

I don't believe Smorgon put much money in personally (I can't prove that, just what I have been told) and he was touted as having lots of business connections but we still have a debt of $4 million.
I don't know where this $4mil figure comes from. Garlick has been quoted in the local papers saying $8mil-$9mil, the balance sheet has the club's liabilities at $14mil.

That it took 13 years to even begin a bulldoze the debt campaign is a story in itself, but whatever the figure is, when it's adjusted for inflation, the club is in a worse debt position than what it was during the fightback of 1989. This is despite over the last ten years the club receiving over $15 million in discretionary assistance from the AFL.

Kudos for the effort that Smorgon and this board have put in, but when it comes down to it, Andrew Demetriou's policies (tens of millions in assistance towards weaker clubs) and nous (outstanding negotiation in broadcast rights and player wages) have saved this club.

I don't know if Dimma is the man for the job, but we need a president with and a plan and vision towards the club becoming truly independent and completely in control of its own destiny. On the back of a "woe is us" attitude and a number of poor (to stupid) decisions, Smorgon had the club give up on this goal a long, long time ago, leaving us completely and hopelessly reliant on the AFL for our day to day survival.

It's all well and good now with a "friendly" CEO and AFL commission, but whether it be 5, 10 or 20 years down the track, there will eventually be a "change of outlook" at the top, and our current financial situation has us completely and utterly at the AFL's mercy (merged or dead at the stroke of a pen - no romantic "fightback" can save the club if there isn't a fundamental change to its finances).

This is not where I want the club to be, so as long as they a present a valid and viable platform, I would vote for almost any presidential challenger.

[bornadog]

I don't know where this $4mil figure comes from. Garlick has been quoted in the local papers saying $8mil-$9mil, the balance sheet has the club's liabilities at $14mil.

Not sure where you are getting your figures from. The Bulldoze the debt started at $5million and they have knocked off about a $1million. see here (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/bulldoze%20the%20debt/tabid/16729/default.aspx)

According to the balance sheet there was a commercial Bill owing for $4.25 million and another loan for $1.6 million which is a fixed and floating charge in favour of Tabcorp Investments No. 6 Pty Ltd over the assets of The Peninsula Club operated at the former Dromana-Red Hill RSL.

Total Liabilities are $14 million but that includes the above plus trade creditors.

[SlimPickens]

Why do you say smoke and mirrors? is that from what you read in the paper?

Sorry if my comment had you flummoxed, i was responding to Ghost Dogs suggestion that there is a lot to like in regards to Dimma and him possibly being president. I'm in the opposing camp as I think how dimma has previously gone about agitating the current board has been poor. As for the money suggestion as I said I'll believe it when I see it. Smoke and mirrors was probably the wrong term.

[bornadog]

Sorry if my comment had you flummoxed, i was responding to Ghost Dogs suggestion that there is a lot to like in regards to Dimma and him possibly being president. I'm in the opposing camp as I think how dimma has previously gone about agitating the current board has been poor. As for the money suggestion as I said I'll believe it when I see it. Smoke and mirrors was probably the wrong term.

No probs.

[Guido]

Not sure where you are getting your figures from. The Bulldoze the debt started at $5million and they have knocked off about a $1million. see here (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/bulldoze%20the%20debt/tabid/16729/default.aspx)

According to the balance sheet there was a commercial Bill owing for $4.25 million and another loan for $1.6 million which is a fixed and floating charge in favour of Tabcorp Investments No. 6 Pty Ltd over the assets of The Peninsula Club operated at the former Dromana-Red Hill RSL.

Total Liabilities are $14 million but that includes the above plus trade creditors.
I saw it with my own eyes in a local Western Times article, Garlick quoted the club's "historical" debt as either $8mil or $9mil million. It was about a year ago, but should have the article lying around somewhere to confirm whether it was 8 or 9.

The $4mil-$5mil debt figure has been bandied about since 2000 - it doesn't quite add up that it has remained the same when the club's liabilities (according to the balance sheet) have more than doubled in that time frame and the club made consecutive million dollar losses for a few years running in the early to mid-2000s.

But I'm happy to bow to better judgement. Tell me though, if we hit the $5million target listed, are we debt free?

[bornadog]

I saw it with my own eyes in a local Western Times article, Garlick quoted the club's "historical" debt as either $8mil or $9mil million. It was about a year ago, but should have the article lying around somewhere to confirm whether it was 8 or 9.

The $4mil-$5mil debt figure has been bandied about since 2000 - it doesn't quite add up that it has remained the same when the club's liabilities (according to the balance sheet) have more than doubled in that time frame and the club made consecutive million dollar losses for a few years running in the early to mid-2000s.

But I'm happy to bow to better judgement. Tell me though, if we hit the $5million target listed, are we debt free?

I am only going by the balance sheet and the answer is yes.

[Greystache]

Just heard Dimma on SEN denying any interest in taking over. So much for that then.

What a complete shock.

The Dimmatina guide to free advertising;

1- Tell your mates involved in football you're considering doing xxxx at your old club, and it will take that club to new heights.

2- When the story starts to build traction, unconvincingly deny it to the media.

3- Be seen to be secretly meeting with potential key figures in a highly public place

4- While the story continues to generate publicity, never address the issue publicly and confirm or deny your intentions.

5- When the story reaches the point where you have to put up or shut up kill the story and claim to never having any knowledge of, or intention to fulfill the committment.

Wait 12-24 months then do it again.

The Dimmatina's use the Bulldogs and Richmond as their personal marketing tools, then
don't give back anything in return.

In all the years since he's retired this hugely successful restauranteur has never seen fit to put his hand in his pocket to even offer a minor sponsorship deal, yet now he's supposed to suddenly become a saviour. Please!!

[Sockeye Salmon]

What a complete shock.

The Dimmatina guide to free advertising;

1- Tell your mates involved in football you're considering doing xxxx at your old club, and it will take that club to new heights.

2- When the story starts to build traction, unconvincingly deny it to the media.

3- Be seen to be secretly meeting with potential key figures in a highly public place

4- While the story continues to generate publicity, never address the issue publicly and confirm or deny your intentions.

5- When the story reaches the point where you have to put up or shut up kill the story and claim to never having any knowledge of, or intention to fulfill the committment.

Wait 12-24 months then do it again.

The Dimmatina's use the Bulldogs and Richmond as their personal marketing tools, then
don't give back anything in return.

In all the years since he's retired this hugely successful restauranteur has never seen fit to put his hand in his pocket to even offer a minor sponsorship deal, yet now he's supposed to suddenly become a saviour. Please!!

And he needs the publicity why, exactly?

[Greystache]

And he needs the publicity why, exactly?

Is that a serious question?

Why does a business in hospitality want free publicity?

[always right]

And he needs the publicity why, exactly?

Perhaps he's simply a publicity whore ala Akermanis.

[Maddog37]

What a complete shock.

The Dimmatina guide to free advertising;

1- Tell your mates involved in football you're considering doing xxxx at your old club, and it will take that club to new heights.

2- When the story starts to build traction, unconvincingly deny it to the media.

3- Be seen to be secretly meeting with potential key figures in a highly public place

4- While the story continues to generate publicity, never address the issue publicly and confirm or deny your intentions.

5- When the story reaches the point where you have to put up or shut up kill the story and claim to never having any knowledge of, or intention to fulfill the committment.

Wait 12-24 months then do it again.

The Dimmatina's use the Bulldogs and Richmond as their personal marketing tools, then
don't give back anything in return.

In all the years since he's retired this hugely successful restauranteur has never seen fit to put his hand in his pocket to even offer a minor sponsorship deal, yet now he's supposed to suddenly become a saviour. Please!!


Greystache, this almost sounds personal. Is it?

Still love that avatar too by the way.

[Greystache]

Greystache, this almost sounds personal. Is it?

Still love that avatar too by the way.

Not at all, I've almost never had anything to do with him. I just scratch my head at the way he works the system and has some people fall all over themselves to hand him control of the club. All flair, no substance.

The way Richmond handled his Dad a few years back was brilliant, he started making noise about sacking the coach and paying out his contract. The story gained some legs, so the club called on Dimmatina publicly to put up immediately. He backed off instantly when it was time to put up and wasn't heard from again about the issue.

Thanks, I'm probably due to update it, he's nearly 18 months now.

[bornadog]

Not at all, I've almost never had anything to do with him. I just scratch my head at the way he works the system and has some people fall all over themselves to hand him control of the club. All flair, no substance.

Isn't this just media trying to make stories out of nothing?

[Greystache]

Isn't this just media trying to make stories out of nothing?

The story gets started and the media adds fuel to the fire regardless if there's any substance to it. Some people know how the system works and use it to their personal benefit.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't like the idea of a bloke chosen because of money, surrounded by his mates.
Sounds like Carlton!
But I respect the fact he actually played for us - was a good player too.

[LongWait]

Do you thinks it's good publicity then?

Dimma might be a cracking good President but the publicity over the past three years can hardly be good for the club. Perhaps it is good publicity for Dimmatina Inc.

[Remi Moses]

Wouldn't have anything to do with publicity, I'd reckon.
Interesting that the two daily's have complete conflicting stories!:eek:

[GVGjr]

The way I read it. Dimma has more passion now for the club than Smorgan has displayed in the last 12 months. Can't be a bad thing.

Passion is great but are you sure it is genuine? No one is saying Dimma isn't up to it but I want a bit more than a passionate person to be the president of the club.
Peter Gordon stepped aside because Smorgo and a few others had a better plan that he could produce and that's what I want to hear from Dimma.

If he has sponsors where are they? If he has a plan then what is it?

[GVGjr]

And he needs the publicity why, exactly?
Perhaps the successful business man tag that the papers use after every tilt sits well with him.

[FrediKanoute]

Probably because they haven't seen evidence of his ability to run businesses other than restaurants.

He may well be a very capable people manager, and he might have skills to make him capable of running a diverse business such as a football club.

I haven't seen that though, but I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.

Actually, running multiple restaurants (whcih is what Dimma does) is a pretty good match to a footy club. A large part fo the club's business is essentially food and drink - Social Club, The Pound, Edgewater, the Peninsula Club - Dimma can provide pretty good experience there.

In any case, the role of a President is not to "run the club day to day", that is what he has Garlick & co for. The role of the President is to lead the Board of the club in setting the strategic direction of club as a whole and ensuring that those tasked with carrying out the strategy are actually performing. If anything Dimma's restaurant background will provide more expertese in the area's which the club is looking to diversify into - hospitality. This can only be a good thing.

As for Smorgon, what did he know about a football club before becoming President?

[FrediKanoute]

I don't know where this $4mil figure comes from. Garlick has been quoted in the local papers saying $8mil-$9mil, the balance sheet has the club's liabilities at $14mil.

That it took 13 years to even begin a bulldoze the debt campaign is a story in itself, but whatever the figure is, when it's adjusted for inflation, the club is in a worse debt position than what it was during the fightback of 1989. This is despite over the last ten years the club receiving over $15 million in discretionary assistance from the AFL.

Kudos for the effort that Smorgon and this board have put in, but when it comes down to it, Andrew Demetriou's policies (tens of millions in assistance towards weaker clubs) and nous (outstanding negotiation in broadcast rights and player wages) have saved this club.

I don't know if Dimma is the man for the job, but we need a president with and a plan and vision towards the club becoming truly independent and completely in control of its own destiny. On the back of a "woe is us" attitude and a number of poor (to stupid) decisions, Smorgon had the club give up on this goal a long, long time ago, leaving us completely and hopelessly reliant on the AFL for our day to day survival.

It's all well and good now with a "friendly" CEO and AFL commission, but whether it be 5, 10 or 20 years down the track, there will eventually be a "change of outlook" at the top, and our current financial situation has us completely and utterly at the AFL's mercy (merged or dead at the stroke of a pen - no romantic "fightback" can save the club if there isn't a fundamental change to its finances).

This is not where I want the club to be, so as long as they a present a valid and viable platform, I would vote for almost any presidential challenger.

There is debt and then there are liabilities. The two are very different. I haven't seen the balance sheet, but I would hasten to suggest that the Debt which Garlo is referring to is Core Borrowings (Debt) with one or more financial institutions. Why it is so important to reduce this is that this type of debt rolls periodically (matures and reborrowed). The lender however is under no obligation to re-lend, which puts the club at risk.

I'm not going to give a capital finance lesson, suffice to say that there is good debt and bad debt. Bad debt is borrowings taken out 20 years ago to fun player purchases. Good debt is something like the debt around the Edgewater Investment, provided that investment is returning at or above the level expected.

Is not as simple to say that we have $14m of liabilities on the balance sheet therefore it is bad.

[jeemak]

Actually, running multiple restaurants (whcih is what Dimma does) is a pretty good match to a footy club. A large part fo the club's business is essentially food and drink - Social Club, The Pound, Edgewater, the Peninsula Club - Dimma can provide pretty good experience there.

In any case, the role of a President is not to "run the club day to day", that is what he has Garlick & co for. The role of the President is to lead the Board of the club in setting the strategic direction of club as a whole and ensuring that those tasked with carrying out the strategy are actually performing. If anything Dimma's restaurant background will provide more expertese in the area's which the club is looking to diversify into - hospitality. This can only be a good thing.

As for Smorgon, what did he know about a football club before becoming President?

There's certainly synergies from a catering and hospitality perspective, I would never say otherwise. One thing that needs to be remembered is that Docklands pretty much has this stitched up though, and I'm not sure they'd be too flexible. If we had a clean stadium like the Cats do then he'd certainly be able to draw on contacts to get great deals for match day events. Not sure running restaurants is the same thing as running social clubs and pubs, but I suppose we're getting a little bogged down discussing that, aren't we?

I've already acknowledged that being president of a football club is largely a facilitation role. He would need to surround himself with good people to be effective, and he'd need to be capable of managing egos (least of all his own) as well as understanding the balance between being overbearing with his influence and opinion and not letting people off the leash too far.

All I've said is I've not seen evidence that he has the qualities. I haven't said he doesn't have them. As for Smorgon, I was a little younger when he took over from Gordon and I honestly don't know a great deal about his experiences prior to taking over the reins.

[bornadog]

As for Smorgon, what did he know about a football club before becoming President?

His father was vice president which may have helped.

[LostDoggy]

Smorgon was on the bulldogs board as early as in 1983 as he is the mag that came out for the 100 year celebration.

[boydogs]

I don't know if Dimma is the man for the job, but we need a president with and a plan and vision towards the club becoming truly independent and completely in control of its own destiny. On the back of a "woe is us" attitude and a number of poor (to stupid) decisions, Smorgon had the club give up on this goal a long, long time ago, leaving us completely and hopelessly reliant on the AFL for our day to day survival.

Yeah, that's why our debt reduction money went straight towards funding the Peninsula Club to generate revenue :rolleyes:

[chef]

Isn't this just media trying to make stories out of nothing?

It is.

[bornadog]

Yeah, that's why our debt reduction money went straight towards funding the Peninsula Club to generate revenue :rolleyes:

Is this true?

[LostDoggy]

Cos we need a change. We are going nowhere at the moment.
Dimma might not be the best candidate but we if continue down the same path we will lose more members, stangnate on field and make it harder to challenge again.

Im interested your money view. Saying Dimma didn't put his money where his mouth is but 17 years of Smorgon hasn't really secured our financials either.

That's just my point though. Just because Dimma has cash and “wealthy businessmen backers” doesn't mean the club will see a red cent. If anything, I find it very cynical. Show the poor club some dollars and watch them fall over themselves.

I guess I don't trust him. And that's a bad start, from a personal perspective.


I don't believe Smorgon put much money in personally (I can't prove that, just what I have been told) and he was touted as having lots of business connections but we still have a debt of $4 million.

My point exactly. Ta!


Yeah, that's why our debt reduction money went straight towards funding the Peninsula Club to generate revenue :rolleyes:

Classic if true.

[Guido]

Yeah, that's why our debt reduction money went straight towards funding the Peninsula Club to generate revenue :rolleyes:
Then by definition it didn't go towards reducing the club's historical debt, did it?

This is the verbatim statement from last year's financial report:

As part of the company's collaborative partnership with RSL Victoria, the company acquired the Dromana-Red Hill RSL in December 2010. This venue has been refurbished and rebranded to The Peninsula Club. The acquisition was funded through additional borrowings

[Guido]

There is debt and then there are liabilities. The two are very different. I haven't seen the balance sheet, but I would hasten to suggest that the Debt which Garlo is referring to is Core Borrowings (Debt) with one or more financial institutions. Why it is so important to reduce this is that this type of debt rolls periodically (matures and reborrowed). The lender however is under no obligation to re-lend, which puts the club at risk.

I'm not going to give a capital finance lesson, suffice to say that there is good debt and bad debt. Bad debt is borrowings taken out 20 years ago to fun player purchases. Good debt is something like the debt around the Edgewater Investment, provided that investment is returning at or above the level expected.
Studied accounting at uni, so although I may not have your experience in business finance, I don't think I need a Debt 101 lesson :)

These are the facts. Whatever makes up the club's liabilities, whether it be trade creditors, a bank facility, good debt, bad debt, indifferent debt, the fact is that after 16 years under this board, the club still cannot stand on it's own two feet.

If the AFL withdrew discretionary assistance tomorrow, we would not be able to meet our debt obligations. Take away the AFL bank guarantee and annual discretionary funding, and this organisation is not a going concern and could go into administration within weeks.

If you count the Waverly money and this year's AFL funding, we have received close to $20mil in assistance from the AFL, and still haven't managed to balance the books to a point where we are independently viable.

Other clubs such as Melbourne, with less exposure, less members, less on field success, are in a stronger financial position. Having had a 16/17 year shot at it, as a shareholder of the club (for even longer than Smorgon has been president) am I within my rights to expect/want better?


Is not as simple to say that we have $14m of liabilities on the balance sheet therefore it is bad.
Auditors’ Report from the 2011 Financial Report
(b) Going concern
As at 31 October 2011, the Western Bulldogs has a current asset deficiency of $10,160,620. This gives rise to significant uncertainty about the ability of the company to continue to operate as a going concern.

Am I ok to assume that that is bad?

[bornadog]

Then by definition it didn't go towards reducing the club's historical debt, did it?

This is the verbatim statement from last year's financial report:

As part of the company's collaborative partnership with RSL Victoria, the company acquired the Dromana-Red Hill RSL in December 2010. This venue has been refurbished and rebranded to The Peninsula Club. The acquisition was funded through additional borrowings



The balance sheet shows this as an additional $1.6 million and is separate to the historical debt showing $4.25 million. I pointed this out in my initial response to your post.

[LongWait]

Studied accounting at uni, so although I may not have your experience in business finance, I don't think I need a Debt 101 lesson :)

These are the facts. Whatever makes up the club's liabilities, whether it be trade creditors, a bank facility, good debt, bad debt, indifferent debt, the fact is that after 16 years under this board, the club still cannot stand on it's own two feet.

If the AFL withdrew discretionary assistance tomorrow, we would not be able to meet our debt obligations. Take away the AFL bank guarantee and annual discretionary funding, and this organisation is not a going concern and could go into administration within weeks.

If you count the Waverly money and this year's AFL funding, we have received close to $20mil in assistance from the AFL, and still haven't managed to balance the books to a point where we are independently viable.

Other clubs such as Melbourne, with less exposure, less members, less on field success, are in a stronger financial position. Having had a 16/17 year shot at it, as a shareholder of the club (for even longer than Smorgon has been president) am I within my rights to expect/want better?
Auditors’ Report from the 2011 Financial Report
(b) Going concern
As at 31 October 2011, the Western Bulldogs has a current asset deficiency of $10,160,620. This gives rise to significant uncertainty about the ability of the company to continue to operate as a going concern.

Am I ok to assume that that is bad?

You are not a shareholder of the club. No-one is. The Footscray Football Club is a membership based organisation.

[Guido]

You are not a shareholder of the club. No-one is. The Footscray Football Club is a membership based organisation.
All members are shareholders of the Footscray Football Club. I've been a member since 1994, hence a shareholder for the same period.

[SonofScray]

With all due respect and credit for his work over the journey I'll be glad when Smorgo is gone. He has been a spent force in recent years and to our detriment no one has stepped up. The names getting thrown about could all do the job. If they are primed to go and Smorgo steps down, or is pushed, it is a good result for the Club.

Our Club needs some fresh views, more honesty, and stronger leadership right at the top. Looking forward to someone with a bit of moxie and a combative streak as well as your standard qualities required to lead up an organisation such as ours.

[LongWait]

All members are shareholders of the Footscray Football Club. I've been a member since 1994, hence a shareholder for the same period.

I'm sorry but this is incorrect - read the club constitution.

You may be a member. Members have very limited entitlements when compared to shareholder's rights. Membership of the Footscray Football Club confers no ownership in any way of the organisiation. Unless you are in a special category (such as Life Members) your membership is only good for as long as you have paid your membership dues.

You have not invested any money into the club, and neither has anyone else. Any financial contributions that you have made are donations; payments for goods or services; or are membership fees. You have not contributed to the shareholder capital (there is none) and have no shareholder rights.

The constitution prevents any distribution of any kind to a member. You get a vote as a paid member but you definitely do not "own" any of the club.

[Guido]

Ok, happy to admit that I've been completely wrong in my interpretation then.

If the club is 100% owned by the members, I would have thought they would be it's shareholders, but obviously not.

[boydogs]

Is this true?

As you noted yourself in the thread below, debt went up by $750k in the 2010-11 financial year. We paid back $750k on our existing debt, and took out a new $1.5m loan for the Peninsula Club. We raised $1.125m in just one night during bulldoze the debt, the extra probably went towards the Peninsula Club as well.

My point is Guido saying Smorgo has done nothing to try and help the club become financially sustainable is tripe, the amount of trouble he has gone to to get the Peninsula & Edgewater Clubs over the line has been enormous.

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=10192

[Guido]

My point is Guido saying Smorgo has done nothing to try and help the club become financially sustainable is tripe, the amount of trouble he has gone to to get the Peninsula & Edgewater Clubs over the line has been enormous.
I've acknowledged their effort, but whatever their time and effort has gone into, the club is still on the brink, completely reliant on a third party (the AFL) for it's day to day survival.

Disagree with it all you want, but that's the fact of where the club sits at this point in time. If you discount the AFL discretionary funding, the club has not even come close to breaking even in over 10 years.

Whether it was Rose, Smorgon or now Garlick, every single interview/presser on long term viability reinforces the same view - AFL assistance, more AFL assistance, AFL assistance for the longer term.

It is as if they think it will exist perpetually. We cannot rely on it. We simply cannot. The AFL are snaky, untrustworthy and will pull the pin on us the second it suits them.

Not once, NOT ONCE, in the last ten years has Smorgon said that he aims to have club being self sustainable without AFL assistance. Everything is geared towards "the AFL must help us".

If the Peninsula club and Edgewater development are -finally- the silver bullets which push the club into being self-sustainable in the long term, fantastic, I will applaud Smorgon's (and his board's) business acumen and effort as much as anyone, whether he's still president or stepped down.

But until the investments do equate into success stories (and there are no guarantees in business), I can only pass judgement on the president's and board's financial performance over the past 16/17 years, and IMO it hasn't been up to par.

[LostDoggy]

I've acknowledged their effort, but whatever their time and effort has gone into, the club is still on the brink, completely reliant on a third party (the AFL) for it's day to day survival.

Disagree with it all you want, but that's the fact of where the club sits at this point in time.

His every single interview/presser on long term viability reinforces the same view - AFL assistance, more AFL assistance, AFL assistance for the longer term.

It is as if he thinks it will exist perpetually. We cannot rely on it. We simply cannot. The AFL are snaky, untrustworthy and will pull the pin on us the second it suits them.

Not once, NOT ONCE, in the last ten years has Smorgon said that he aims to have club being self sustainable without AFL assistance. Everything is geared towards "the AFL must help us".

If the Peninsula club and Edgewater development are -finally- the silver bullets which push the club into being self-sustainable in the long term, fantastic, I will applaud Smorgon's (and his board's) business acumen and effort as much as anyone, whether he's still president or stepped down.

But until the investments do equate into success stories, I can only go on the president's and board's financial performance over the past 16/17 years, and IMO it hasn't been up to par.

The Edgewater investment and to a lesser extent the Peninsula club are precisely what you crave; sustainable revenue earning investments able to deliver long into the future. Surely given the financial nous you claim to posess, you can see this and also recognise that, as a long term investment, there has been a long lead-in to get this established.

Thoughout the 17 years, I dare say the Board could have slashed spenting in a move to create a better Balance Sheet. But, that would have come at a cost that would have sent us to the wall through slashing football department spending, community and promotional spend and player payments etc. Life has had to go on and members wishes for sustained success followed.

Anybody jumping on this forum to critise Davis Smorgon ought to wake up to themselves for without him, we would no longer have a club, a fact acknowledged by every other club in the AFL but sadly not by some who claim to be supporters.

[Bulldog4life]

The Edgewater investment and to a lesser extent the Peninsula club are precisely what you crave; sustainable revenue earning investments able to deliver long into the future. Surely given the financial nous you claim to posess, you can see this and also recognise that, as a long term investment, there has been a long lead-in to get this established.

Thoughout the 17 years, I dare say the Board could have slashed spenting in a move to create a better Balance Sheet. But, that would have come at a cost that would have sent us to the wall through slashing football department spending, community and promotional spend and player payments etc. Life has had to go on and members wishes for sustained success followed.

Anybody jumping on this forum to critise Davis Smorgon ought to wake up to themselves for without him, we would no longer have a club, a fact acknowledged by every other club in the AFL but sadly not by some who claim to be supporters.

Well said EJ.

[bornadog]

Anybody jumping on this forum to critise Davis Smorgon ought to wake up to themselves for without him, we would no longer have a club, a fact acknowledged by every other club in the AFL but sadly not by some who claim to be supporters.

I don't think anyone is criticizing Smorgon. He has done a great job for us. What we need now is to go to the next level and David has run his race. He himself has acknowledged he is prepared to stand down for the right person to take over.

[LongWait]

I don't think anyone is criticizing Smorgon. He has done a great job for us. What we need now is to go to the next level and David has run his race. He himself has acknowledged he is prepared to stand down for the right person to take over.

Sorry BAD but there was some pretty strident criticism of the club and of Smorgon in particular (not by you.)

[Guido]

The Edgewater investment and to a lesser extent the Peninsula club are precisely what you crave; sustainable revenue earning investments able to deliver long into the future. Surely given the financial nous you claim to posess, you can see this and also recognise that, as a long term investment, there has been a long lead-in to get this established.
Collingwood lost millions in clubs and hotels, some businesses go bankrupt with major investments, and we've had our own experience with unsuccessful business ventures in the past.

I'm as hopeful that they succeed as anybody, but until they prove to produce the on-going revenue streams that the club hopes for, they can't be put in the "great move" basket.


Thoughout the 17 years, I dare say the Board could have slashed spenting in a move to create a better Balance Sheet. But, that would have come at a cost that would have sent us to the wall through slashing football department spending, community and promotional spend and player payments etc. Life has had to go on and members wishes for sustained success followed.
Well, you can argue taking one avenue against the other, the only fact we know is that the avenue that the club did ultimately choose to take has us, right at this moment, not independently viable, and at the mercy of an organisation who have a proven track record of having tried to merge/kill us.


Anybody jumping on this forum to critise Davis Smorgon ought to wake up to themselves for without him, we would no longer have a club, .
We have received $20million from the AFL in the last 10-11 years... do you think that's also helped contribute towards us surviving, just a little bit? Or the only reason this club still exists is -single handedly- because of David Smorgon?


claim to be supporters
Seriously? Would anyone spend hours discussing this if they weren't a supporter, or if it the discussion wasn't incredibly important to them?

[LongWait]

@ Guido: what you fail to appreciate is that no club is necessarily viable without the AFL. All clubs receive revenue from the AFL in different ways, some of which comes in the form of equalisation payments to compensate for fixture inequalities, poor stadium deals which were negotiated by the AFL etc.

You also fail to note that 'powerhouse' clubs, including among others Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn, have all received various forms of AFL assistance in the past decade and still do so.

[Mitcha]

I've acknowledged their effort, but whatever their time and effort has gone into, the club is still on the brink, completely reliant on a third party (the AFL) for it's day to day survival.

Disagree with it all you want, but that's the fact of where the club sits at this point in time. If you discount the AFL discretionary funding, the club has not even come close to breaking even in over 10 years.

Whether it was Rose, Smorgon or now Garlick, every single interview/presser on long term viability reinforces the same view - AFL assistance, more AFL assistance, AFL assistance for the longer term.

It is as if they think it will exist perpetually. We cannot rely on it. We simply cannot. The AFL are snaky, untrustworthy and will pull the pin on us the second it suits them.

Not once, NOT ONCE, in the last ten years has Smorgon said that he aims to have club being self sustainable without AFL assistance. Everything is geared towards "the AFL must help us".

If the Peninsula club and Edgewater development are -finally- the silver bullets which push the club into being self-sustainable in the long term, fantastic, I will applaud Smorgon's (and his board's) business acumen and effort as much as anyone, whether he's still president or stepped down.

But until the investments do equate into success stories (and there are no guarantees in business), I can only pass judgement on the president's and board's financial performance over the past 16/17 years, and IMO it hasn't been up to par.
Been a bit quiet on this one lately, have they even started this project?

[Guido]

@ Guido: what you fail to appreciate is that no club is necessarily viable without the AFL. All clubs receive revenue from the AFL in different ways, some of which comes in the form of equalisation payments to compensate for fixture inequalities, poor stadium deals which were negotiated by the AFL etc.

You also fail to note that 'powerhouse' clubs, including amoung others Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn, have all received various forms of AFL assistance in the past decade and still do so.
I'm talking about discretionary assistance over and above the standard dividend.

This is the payment that, with, say 12/24 months notice, the AFL could pull from under our feet and leave us completely vulnerable to bankruptcy or forced merger/relocation.

The club, the AFL or supporters can justify the discretionary funding in any way that they like, and in most cases it is probably legitimate, but it doesn't change the fact that it is in no way guaranteed to be ongoing into the longer term.

It is completely and utterly at the AFL's discretion, and if, for whatever reason they wanted us gone, they'd simply pull the funding and do whatever the hell THEY wanted with us - in our current financial position, we would have no say in our own future.

This isn't a personal vendetta against Smorgon, no matter the people/personalities involved, if, after 10 years they couldn't get things to a point where the club at least has control over it's own future, I'd be just as disappointed/scathing.

[SonofScray]

I lean towards Guido's argument. We're still battling away financially, the real saving grace has been the AFL's change in perception of our Club and what they require to maximise the potential earnings of their competition. To me, that appears to have been the key to our survival, beyond many of the efforts of our President and Board. Rose had quite a bit to do with highlighting our worth to the AFL I believe, so credit where it is due.

Full respect for David Smorgon who has given his best over a long time, he stepped up at a crucial time for our Club but I won't hold him above feedback or as untouchable on the back of it. One thing I've found interesting is the discrepancy between the "I'm happy to step aside" comments and the reactions to discussion about contenders "good on him- been there, done that." Seems a little bit too defensive and dismissive to me.

[LongWait]

I'm talking about discretionary assistance over and above the standard dividend.

This is the payment that, with, say 12/24 months notice, the AFL could pull from under our feet and leave us completely vulnerable to bankruptcy or forced merger/relocation.

The club, the AFL or supporters can justify the discretionary funding in any way that they like, and in most cases it is probably legitimate, but it doesn't change the fact that it is in no way guaranteed to be ongoing into the longer term.

It is completely and utterly at the AFL's discretion, and if, for whatever reason they wanted us gone, they'd simply pull the funding and do whatever the hell THEY wanted with us - in our current financial position, we would have no say in our own future.

This isn't a personal vendetta against Smorgon, no matter the people/personalities involved, if, after 16/17 years they couldn't get things to a point where the club at least has control over it's own future, I'd be just as disappointed/scathing.

Please do some homework and look at the same kinds of financial assistance that the AFL has provided to other clubs now and over the past couple of decades - I'm talking about provision of Bank Guarantees for nominated amounts to help secure funds for capital purchases and even for working capital. Carlton, Collingwood, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Geelong and St.Kilda have all availed themselves of this kind of assistance. There are probably other clubs as well.

The survival in this competition of every single club has been in the hands of the AFL always. This will never change. What this club has done is forge a good relationship with both the AFL and with the other clubs, who afterall own the AFL.

Your scare mongering is unhelpful and ill-informed.

[LostDoggy]

I lean towards Guido's argument. We're still battling away financially, the real saving grace has been the AFL's change in perception of our Club and what they require to maximise the potential earnings of their competition. To me, that appears to have been the key to our survival, beyond many of the efforts of our President and Board. Rose had quite a bit to do with highlighting our worth to the AFL I believe, so credit where it is due.

Full respect for David Smorgon who has given his best over a long time, he stepped up at a crucial time for our Club but I won't hold him above feedback or as untouchable on the back of it. One thing I've found interesting is the discrepancy between the "I'm happy to step aside" comments and the reactions to discussion about contenders "good on him- been there, done that." Seems a little bit too defensive and dismissive to me.

I think Smorgon would just rather the transition be a peaceful one conducted in the best interests of the club.

[Guido]

Please do some homework and look at the same kinds of financial assistance that the AFL has provided to other clubs now and over the past couple of decades - I'm talking about provision of Bank Guarantees for nominated amounts to help secure funds for capital purchases and even for working capital. Carlton, Collingwood, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Geelong and St.Kilda have all availed themselves of this kind of assistance. There are probably other clubs as well.
I am only quoting special, discretionary distributions, that we have effectively become reliant on to keep our day to day operations in the black.

Every single year from 2002 onwards, we received discretionary assistance of between $1.2mil-$1.8mil OVER AND ABOVE the standard dividend.

This year, and for the rest of this broadcast agreement, we will receive $2.5mil more in funding - annually - than most other AFL clubs.

You somehow think that this discretionary assistance is guaranteed perpetually? That we should bank on "special distributions" being available and forthcoming for the next 5, 10, 20 years? That we should risk our future on it? Well excuse me if I'd prefer someone to come up with a solution/strategy that doesn't have us dependent on us going to the AFL cap in hand year in year out for a couple of million just to make ends meet.

[Greystache]

Every single year from 2002 onwards, we received discretionary assistance of between $1.5mil-$1.8mil OVER AND ABOVE the standard dividend.

This year, and for the rest of this broadcast agreement, we will receive $2.5mil more in funding - annually - than your typical AFL club.

You somehow think that this discretionary assistance is guaranteed perpetually? That we should bank on "special distributions" being available and forthcoming for the next 5, 10, 20 years? Risk our future on it? Well excuse me if I'd prefer someone to come up with a solution/strategy that doesn't have us dependent on us going to the AFL cap in hand year in year out for a couple of million just to make ends meet.

It'll continue until we and a couple of other clubs have paid off Etihad stadium for the AFL through our pain and suffering from shocking stadium deals.


I have read your posts and I can't follow what you want.

- You don't want us reliant on AFL handouts, you want us to develop our own revenue generating interests.

- You're aggrieved that we accrued additional debt by investing in two businesses to produce additional revenue so we're not reliant on AFL handouts.

- Setting up businesses isn't guaranteed to succeed.

So to summarise, you want us to create investments with no chance of failure, that produce huge amounts of profit, that cost nothing to set up.

If someone can hit on the formula that makes this possible can someone pass me their daughter's phone number.

[bornadog]

Every single year from 2002 onwards, we received discretionary assistance of between $1.2mil-$1.8mil OVER AND ABOVE the standard dividend. .

We receive these payments as compensation for a number of reasons:

* The crap Eithad Stadium deal that the AFL negotiated for us.

* The lack of TV exposure

* Zero Block busters

* Playing lots of interstate games

* and basically not having an opportunity to receive big sponsorship dollars due to the lack of the above exposure.

The Club is trying very hard to not be reliant on the AFL and two areas where they are now receiving regular income is from the rental of offices to various businesses, in particular to Victoria University and the revenue received from the sporting complex built next to the John Gent Stand. On top of this is the Dromana and Edgewater developments.

There is certainly a long way to go, but at the end of the day if we don't have supporters including new, who also stick by the club we will fail.

[LongWait]

We receive these payments as compensation for a number of reasons:

* The crap Eithad Stadium deal that the AFL negotiated for us.

* The lack of TV exposure

* Zero Block busters

* Playing lots of interstate games

* and basically not having an opportunity to receive big sponsorship dollars due to the lack of the above exposure.

The Club is trying very hard to not be reliant on the AFL and two areas where they are now receiving regular income is from the rental of offices to various businesses, in particular to Victoria University and the revenue received from the sporting complex built next to the John Gent Stand. On top of this is the Dromana and Edgewater developments.

There is certainly a long way to go, but at the end of the day if we don't have supporters including new, who also stick by the club we will fail.

Exactly!

[jeemak]

It'll continue until we and a couple of other clubs have paid off Etihad stadium for the AFL through our pain and suffering from shocking stadium deals.



This is the perverse and sickening part of it all as far as I'm concerned.

Our club and supporters are being ground to the bone by the horrible stadium deals negotiated for us and by our club when we had no alternative home venue, all the while not getting any exposure or favourable fixturing, and when the AFL buys the stadium for $1.00 we're likely to be relocated or extinguished!

I appreciate where Guido is coming from, though I'm not sure he appreciates just how hard Smorgon and Co. have had to work to turn the ship around to get us to a point where we can seek and invest in alternative revenue streams.

We have been a club that has throughout history continually proven itself to be poor financial managers, and I think some credit needs to go to those at the helm over the recent decade who worked hard to make us a club worthy of lending to, and backing.

[Eastdog]

Do you reckon it would be good if we somehow strike a deal where we play half of our home matches at the MCG and the other half at Etihad Stadium. It probably won't happen but it is just an idea. Even if we don't play half at the G at least play a few more matches than 2 per year.

[jeemak]

Do you reckon it would be good if we somehow strike a deal where we play half of our home matches at the MCG and the other half at Etihad Stadium. It probably won't happen but it is just an idea. Even if we don't play half at the G at least play a few more matches than 2 per year.

There's no incentive for the MCG to have us play there ED. Plus, somebody would need to take our place at Docklands to help pay that stadium off, and I can't see too many clubs putting their hands up for that job.

[Eastdog]

There's no incentive for the MCG to have us play there ED. Plus, somebody would need to take our place at Docklands to help pay that stadium off, and I can't see too many clubs putting their hands up for that job.

How about jeemak like our "blockbuster" type of games to be played at the G.

[LongWait]

This is the perverse and sickening part of it all as far as I'm concerned.

Our club and supporters are being ground to the bone by the horrible stadium deals negotiated for us and by our club when we had no alternative home venue, all the while not getting any exposure or favourable fixturing, and when the AFL buys the stadium for $1.00 we're likely to be relocated or extinguished!

I appreciate where Guido is coming from, though I'm not sure he appreciates just how hard Smorgon and Co. have had to work to turn the ship around to get us to a point where we can seek and invest in alternative revenue streams.

We have been a club that has throughout history continually proven itself to be poor financial managers, and I think some credit needs to go to those at the helm over the recent decade who worked hard to make us a club worthy of lending to, and backing.

I appreciate your views Jeemak, however Guido gives Smorgon zero credit and doesn't acknowledge any of the points you make in your post above.

We all know that our club is being screwed by the AFL and we all would like the club to be less financially dependent upon direct payments from the AFL, but when we debate these things we should first have our facts right before making sweeping statements as if they are gospel, and we should be balanced in our assessment of individuals who have contributed far more to the club than Guido or any of us on this forum ever have or probably ever will.

[boydogs]

I've acknowledged their effort, but whatever their time and effort has gone into, the club is still on the brink, completely reliant on a third party (the AFL) for it's day to day survival.

As is every club.

If you can't see what Smorgon has done for the club and continues to do for the club, head on down to training one day.

Check out the $31m redevelopment of Whitten Oval, whilst Essendon is homeless and North gets by with a $16m effort that included some of their own money. Tour the building, and see the mission elite learning centre and mission sponsorship on our training singlets.

See the club owned community child care and basketball courts, generating revenue for the club. See the boardroom table made by Victoria University students, in a partnership that boosts membership and allows us to use their expertise and facilities.

See the club museum, and the Western Bulldogs name that came from a desire to expand the club across the wider western suburbs.

With all that done, he is still tackling ambitious projects like the Edgewater Club including a drawn out legal battle with the council which we won, the Peninsula Club, Bulldoze the Debt, and now a VFL side.

The man deserves a medal, not the sack.

[jeemak]

I appreciate your views Jeemak, however Guido gives Smorgon zero credit and doesn't acknowledge any of the points you make in your post above.

We all know that our club is being screwed by the AFL and we all would like the club to be less financially dependent upon direct payments from the AFL, but when we debate these things we should first have our facts right before making sweeping statements as if they are gospel, and we should be balanced in our assessment of individuals who have contributed far more to the club than Guido or any of us on this forum ever have or probably ever will.

I can see the need for us to strive to stand on our own two feet, much like Guido does, because I understand how fickle support from the AFL can be, and I can understand that all forms of media might expect a different type of value from the league by the time the next broadcasting rights roll around. The most recent negotiations were based on value being extracted from 18 teams, the next might not.

We also have the spectre of the AFL buying Docklands prior to the 2025 target initially outlined when the stadium contract was devised. The fact that we're relying on AFL "special assistance" is a worry for us in light of that, because afterall, all of the other clubs irrespective of their preferable exposure and favourable fixturing positions couldn't care less if we were marginalised to the point where our viability was questioned.

While we have made significant inroads towards viability, we still need to be extremely dilligent moving forwards in our quest towards being sustainable without AFL assistance.

[chef]

How about jeemak like our "blockbuster" type of games to be played at the G.

We can't pack out ES, why do we need to move these games?

Sadly we are not a blockbuster team, we just don't have that many supporters.

[LongWait]

As is every club.

If you can't see what Smorgon has done for the club and continues to do for the club, head on down to training one day.

Check out the $31m redevelopment of Whitten Oval, whilst Essendon is homeless and North gets by with a $16m effort that included some of their own money. Tour the building, and see the mission elite learning centre and mission sponsorship on our training singlets.

See the club owned community child care and basketball courts, generating revenue for the club. See the boardroom table made by Victoria University students, in a partnership that boosts membership and allows us to use their expertise and facilities.

See the club museum, and the Western Bulldogs name that came from a desire to expand the club across the wider western suburbs.

With all that done, he is still tackling ambitious projects like the Edgewater Club including a drawn out legal battle with the council which we won, the Peninsula Club, Bulldoze the Debt, and now a VFL side.

The man deserves a medal, not the sack.

You expressed this far better than I did gogriff. I'm sure that you reflect the feelings of the vast majority of supporters on this matter.

[Eastdog]

We can't pack out ES, why do we need to move these games?

Sadly we are not a blockbuster team, we just don't have that many supporters.

That's the reality we have a relatively small supporter base. I reckon though if we were doing well we may get more game at the G.

[Remi Moses]

First of all there's no doubting we'd love the AFL Assistance to be on the same level or non existent.
However what code do you have a team who gets under 20 thou and makes quadruple the amount the other clubs make at Etihad, with larger attendances.

[Eastdog]

First of all there's no doubting we'd love the AFL Assistance to be on the same level or non existent.
However what code do you have a team who gets under 20 thou and makes quadruple the amount the other clubs make at Etihad, with larger attendances.

Why did we get a bad deal with Etihad in the first place.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Why did we get a bad deal with Etihad in the first place.

We were in a hopeless negotiating position.

Etihad (Colonial?) management knew we were going to play our home games at the new stadium, it had been marketed that way from the get-go.

If we were going to play there anyway, why would they offer us anything to do so?

That is why we got the AFL to negotiate the deal for us, at least they had some leverage with regards to fixturing.


Unfortunately, it appears the AFL negotiation went along the lines of:

'How about upping the ante for the Bulldogs guys?'
'No.'
'Bugger.

'SORRY GUYS, NO GOOD'

[ledge]

We were in a hopeless negotiating position.

Etihad (Colonial?) management knew we were going to play our home games at the new stadium, it had been marketed that way from the get-go.

If we were going to play there anyway, why would they offer us anything to do so?

That is why we got the AFL to negotiate the deal for us, at least they had some leverage with regards to fixturing.


Unfortunately, it appears the AFL negotiation went along the lines of:

'How about upping the ante for the Bulldogs guys?'
'No.'
'Bugger.





'SORRY GUYS, NO GOOD'





But didn't we just get a revised better deal a couple of years ago?

[Eastdog]

We were in a hopeless negotiating position.

Etihad (Colonial?) management knew we were going to play our home games at the new stadium, it had been marketed that way from the get-go.

If we were going to play there anyway, why would they offer us anything to do so?

That is why we got the AFL to negotiate the deal for us, at least they had some leverage with regards to fixturing.


Unfortunately, it appears the AFL negotiation went along the lines of:

'How about upping the ante for the Bulldogs guys?'
'No.'
'Bugger.

'SORRY GUYS, NO GOOD'

How much revenue do we get out of this compared to the other clubs at Etihad or is it a similar amount.

[immortalmike]

How much revenue do we get out of this compared to the other clubs at Etihad or is it a similar amount.

From memory, similar to North when they play there and much less than St Kilda, Carlton and especially Essendon.

[Sockeye Salmon]

How much revenue do we get out of this compared to the other clubs at Etihad or is it a similar amount.

Essendon had Etihad and the MCG fighting over them, throwing buckets of cash at them to sign on.

What we make out of our deal would just about cover Essendon's corporate lunch.

[Sockeye Salmon]

But didn't we just get a revised better deal a couple of years ago?

We did, but all we did was swap over to a fixed amount per game. It meant we didn't have to write a cheque for the Freo game but it also meant we didn't make a killing on the Collingwood game either

[jeemak]

We were in a hopeless negotiating position.

Etihad (Colonial?) management knew we were going to play our home games at the new stadium, it had been marketed that way from the get-go.

If we were going to play there anyway, why would they offer us anything to do so?

That is why we got the AFL to negotiate the deal for us, at least they had some leverage with regards to fixturing.


Unfortunately, it appears the AFL negotiation went along the lines of:

'How about upping the ante for the Bulldogs guys?'
'No.'
'Bugger.

'SORRY GUYS, NO GOOD'


Essendon had Etihad and the MCG fighting over them, throwing buckets of cash at them to sign on.

What we make out of our deal would just about cover Essendon's corporate lunch.


We did, but all we did was swap over to a fixed amount per game. It meant we didn't have to write a cheque for the Freo game but it also meant we didn't make a killing on the Collingwood game either

Pretty much.

Being coerced into playing at an AFL specified stadium and having to negotiate our own deal was what set us back significantly at the turn of the century.

I just can't understand how the AFL has turned into such a stupid and disconnected organisation that views certain clubs and the people that follow them as being second class.

The AFL is owned by the people, but yet, it lacks accountability to a level that is so ridiculous that it's almost funny.

[ledge]

We were in a hopeless negotiating position.

Etihad (Colonial?) management knew we were going to play our home games at the new stadium, it had been marketed that way from the get-go.

If we were going to play there anyway, why would they offer us anything to do so?

That is why we got the AFL to negotiate the deal for us, at least they had some leverage with regards to fixturing.


Unfortunately, it appears the AFL negotiation went along the lines of:

'How about upping the ante for the Bulldogs guys?'
'No.'
'Bugger.

'SORRY GUYS, NO GOOD'


We did, but all we did was swap over to a fixed amount per game. It meant we didn't have to write a cheque for the Freo game but it also meant we didn't make a killing on the Collingwood game either

But I presume it would be a big improvement on previous contract

[hujsh]

The AFL is owned by the people, but yet, it lacks accountability to a level that is so ridiculous that it's almost funny.

Corporations being publicly owned doesn't make them more accountable or responsible.

[jeemak]

Corporations being publicly owned doesn't make them more accountable or responsible.

I was just taking a few liberties to get a point across, it's not owned by the people at all though it is worthless without them.

[Cyberdoggie]

Pretty much.

Being coerced into playing at an AFL specified stadium and having to negotiate our own deal was what set us back significantly at the turn of the century.

I just can't understand how the AFL has turned into such a stupid and disconnected organisation that views certain clubs and the people that follow them as being second class.

The AFL is owned by the people, but yet, it lacks accountability to a level that is so ridiculous that it's almost funny.

Have you forgotten when they tried to get rid of us?

I'd say they are a fair improvement on those days.