Callan Ward should be played or not?

[Ghost Dog]

Do you think he should be picked or not?

No. The game will mean nothing to him, and everything to a young kid.
And with that kid, we might learn something, see something or try something new that could help us next season.
Looking Forward Callan! Goodbye kid.

[chef]

No way he should be played and his decision to keep someone else out of the team who will be there next year is pretty selfish to me.

[LostDoggy]

More interesting would be a poll asking if Callan should be picked ON. :)

[Ghost Dog]

More interesting would be a poll asking if Callan should be picked ON. :)

That goes without saying. Hoping for a sandwich tackle between Schofield and Picken :D

[GVGjr]

I've mentioned this on one of the other Ward threads but I'll stand by the players decision with the whole question about if he should play or not. If they can respect his decision then I can as well.

[Ghost Dog]

I've mentioned this on one of the other Ward threads but I'll stand by the players decision with the whole question about if he should play or not. If they can respect his decision then I can as well.

Cop out!:D No fence sitters hehe
This is the thread for saying what YOU think, not following what the players or anyone else things. What does your gut tell you?
The poll is waiting GVG...... ^_^

[GVGjr]

Cop out!:D No fence sitters hehe
This is the thread for saying what YOU think, not following what the players or anyone else things. What does your gut tell you?
The poll is waiting GVG...... ^_^

Supporters are not in the best position to make the call because so many get overly emotional about any player that dares to leave the club without being pushed.
It's clearly not our decision. The players go into games with him and and are the best placed to say if they want to do it again. If they appreciate his time at the club and want to give him a fitting send off then that's up to them and I will support that.

I've been one of the players sponsors for Ward for 4 years and all my non Bulldog supporting mates think I should be dirty on him but I'm not. I think he has made the wrong decision but we gain nothing from giving him the bums rush.

I have 4 years of signed players sponsors photo's of Ward (along with a couple from Hargrave) and I won't be throwing them out anytime soon.

[1eyedog]

Supporters are not in the best position to make the call because so many get overly emotional about any player that dares to leave the club without being pushed.
It's clearly not our decision. The players go into games with him and and are the best placed to say if they want to do it again. If they appreciate his time at the club and want to give him a fitting send off then that's up to them and I will support that.

I've been one of the players sponsors for Ward for 4 years and all my non Bulldog supporting mates think I should be dirty on him but I'm not. I think he has made the wrong decision but we gain nothing from giving him the bums rush.

I have 4 years of signed players sponsors photo's of Ward (along with a couple from Hargrave) and I won't be throwing them out anytime soon.

I think this one is just set up to gauge our opinion as members.

[Ghost Dog]

Supporters are not in the best position to make the call because so many get overly emotional about any player that dares to leave the club without being pushed.
It's clearly not our decision. The players go into games with him and and are the best placed to say if they want to do it again. If they appreciate his time at the club and want to give him a fitting send off then that's up to them and I will support that.

I've been one of the players sponsors for Ward for 4 years and all my non Bulldog supporting mates think I should be dirty on him but I'm not. I think he has made the wrong decision but we gain nothing from giving him the bums rush.

I have 4 years of signed players sponsors photo's of Ward (along with a couple from Hargrave) and I won't be throwing them out anytime soon.

Maybe in the real world. But here we can have our say. Nothing wrong with that.

I understand where you are coming from. totally agree, no point being bitter. He's just a kid and it's a good offer for him. But That's not the point of the thread.

IMO - No. What right does Callan have to now prevent or deny a younger player their turn? We loved him, still do, yes and he had a turn, and now it's someone else's. Rocket didn't get a send off. He was here longer than Callan. So it goes. If you want to have a send off, put him in the tray of ute and he can cut a few laps while the old ladies mutter curses under their breaths but clap politely.

But don't play him. Let's end this season with some semblance of how we want to begin in 2012.
That one last game could be the spark for a kid to set alight their pre-season.

:Dspeaking of kids, when will that rookie Mitch Hahn get a gurnsey?
Let the Bullock lose on the paddock, one last time...*sob*

[GVGjr]

IMO - No. What right does Callan have to now prevent or deny a younger player their turn? We loved him, still do, yes and he had a turn, and now it's someone elses. Rocket didn't get a send off. He was here longer than Callan. So it goes.
:Droll out Mitch Hahn!

Can you actually guarantee a youngster would defiantly be selected to replace him?
"Play a kid" is one of those things that people say to justify dumping someone else and while it sounds good in the end the selectors often don't follow that line. Funnily enough if he wasn't suspended there would be a good chance that Reid would be his replacement and ironically I think it's just a matter of time before he packs up his bags and heads off to GWS as well.

I know the vast majority of supporters won't want him to play and I understand why.

[Ghost Dog]

Can you actually guarantee a youngster would defiantly be selected to replace him?
"Play a kid" is one of those things that people say to justify dumping someone else and while it sounds good in the end the selectors often don't follow that line. Funnily enough if he wasn't suspended there would be a good chance that Reid would be his replacement and ironically I think it's just a matter of time before he packs up his bags and heads off to GWS as well.

I know the vast majority of supporters won't want him to play and I understand why.

Dreams come true GVG
Mitch Wallis and Tony Liberatore make the old ladies glasses go all misty with a comeback in the last quarter.

anyway, Ward looked like a headless chook last week. Can you guarantee he will be any good this week?

[GVGjr]

Can you guarantee he will be any good this week?

I can guarantee he wouldn't be dropped on form. ;)

[Ghost Dog]

I can guarantee he wouldn't be dropped on form. ;)

Well, I think he was a bit wobbly last week. Don't you reckon?
Maybe dreaming of his new beachfront apartment...:D

[AndrewP6]

I voted no, going on the assumption that he's gone. Don't want to be a Bulldog, don't be a Bulldog. But don't put our cherished tri-colours on, disingenuously claiming to want to do the right thing by the club, if your true allegiance lies with the almighty dollar. Make him sit in the outer, amongst the true fans he's shafting, clad in a GWS t-shirt. Play someone who wants to be at our club.

Oops, I was going to wait to unleash, wasn't I?

[LostDoggy]

Reminds of the final round of 2003 when we all knew Nathan Brown was going to leave but nothing official had been said. It was Kretiuk's last game and we got belted by Brisbane. I had a lingering, faint hope that Brown would stay but he threw his boots into the crowd at the end of the game and I knew that was it, he was gone. Ward and Brown are not of the same ilk (not that I know either of them personally) but the end result for the Doggies is the same. A really good player has gone elsewhere because of money. In this instance I can thank Demetriou and his cohorts. The fact that Ward's team mates are standing by him and want him to play just says to me that they get why he is leaving and if they were offered the right amount of cash, they'd go too. This is footy and just adds to my malaise about the game's changing landscape. I would rather Ward wasn't playing tomorrow.

GVGjr you are so level headed and grown up about these things. I just feel sulky.

[EasternWest]

Reminds of the final round of 2003 when we all knew Nathan Brown was going to leave but nothing official had been said. It was Kretiuk's last game and we got belted by Brisbane. I had a lingering, faint hope that Brown would stay but he threw his boots into the crowd at the end of the game and I knew that was it, he was gone. Ward and Brown are not of the same ilk (not that I know either of them personally) but the end result for the Doggies is the same. A really good player has gone elsewhere because of money. In this instance I can thank Demetriou and his cohorts. The fact that Ward's team mates are standing by him and want him to play just says to me that they get why he is leaving and if they were offered the right amount of cash, they'd go too. This is footy and just adds to my malaise about the game's changing landscape. I would rather Ward wasn't playing tomorrow.

GVGjr you are so level headed and grown up about these things. I just feel sulky.

He is. But you're not coming through as sulky. Just another disappointed supporter. Nothing wrong with your post.

[Remi Moses]

Abysmal soft decision and just finishes what has been a "Car Crash" of a season.
Just waiting for the soft reaction to when we get "bent over"in the Compo picks.
Please don't tell me it's beneficial with Ward in the midfield action ahead of Wallis, whom we need to get more game time in the heat of the action. At least Adelaide booted Bock and Davis out, Palmer's out this week as well. No Mitch Clark at Brissie!
We play this guy in some pipedream that he'll return.

[Ghost Dog]

Reminds of the final round of 2003 when we all knew Nathan Brown was going to leave but nothing official had been said. It was Kretiuk's last game and we got belted by Brisbane. I had a lingering, faint hope that Brown would stay but he threw his boots into the crowd at the end of the game and I knew that was it, he was gone. Ward and Brown are not of the same ilk (not that I know either of them personally) but the end result for the Doggies is the same. A really good player has gone elsewhere because of money. In this instance I can thank Demetriou and his cohorts. The fact that Ward's team mates are standing by him and want him to play just says to me that they get why he is leaving and if they were offered the right amount of cash, they'd go too. This is footy and just adds to my malaise about the game's changing landscape. I would rather Ward wasn't playing tomorrow.

GVGjr you are so level headed and grown up about these things. I just feel sulky.

Well put Ms Bulldog. As fans, we are encouraged to be passionate and then, feel made to feel guilty for not being civil to the poor
young lad who really just had to take the dollars. No he didn't. Sulky?? No way!
You wear your heart on your sleeve Ms Bulldog! I salute you.
I won't begrudge anyone giving Callan a few hearty sledges on Saturday in the spirit of the game, even though silence is my choice.

Level headed!? Ha! GVG is considering going into a beserker rage if someone hands him a 'change the name back to Footscray' petition on Saturday! :D Kidding GVG

[Remi Moses]

Reminds of the final round of 2003 when we all knew Nathan Brown was going to leave but nothing official had been said. It was Kretiuk's last game and we got belted by Brisbane. I had a lingering, faint hope that Brown would stay but he threw his boots into the crowd at the end of the game and I knew that was it, he was gone. Ward and Brown are not of the same ilk (not that I know either of them personally) but the end result for the Doggies is the same. A really good player has gone elsewhere because of money. In this instance I can thank Demetriou and his cohorts. The fact that Ward's team mates are standing by him and want him to play just says to me that they get why he is leaving and if they were offered the right amount of cash, they'd go too. This is footy and just adds to my malaise about the game's changing landscape. I would rather Ward wasn't playing tomorrow.

GVGjr you are so level headed and grown up about these things. I just feel sulky.

Great endorsement of the player Culture if they were offered the'yd go to! Players from other clubs resisted, poor culture out our club it looks

[Grantysghost]

Im saying NO he shouldn't. As others have said, you dont treat playing for the dogs as a commodity and deserve to wear the colors. Im with you Ghost dog. I wont boo him, but every time he does something good i might feel a little pang of pain in the old chest and let out a groan or two.

[Maddog37]

I am not going to let the Ward issue get in the way of my enjoyment of the game.

I am not going to let the whole tawdry affair bother me one iota.

That is one thing I can control.

[Mofra]

Let the playing group decide - they seem to be saying yes, so yes

[Mantis]

Let the playing group decide - they seem to be saying yes, so yes

I don't cop that. The club as a whole is bigger than it's players.

There could be some really ugly scenes if he plays.

[Mofra]

I don't cop that. The club as a whole is bigger than it's players.
There is a trend in football towards empowering the leadership group (and therefore by proxy, the playing group) in making important decisions. Given we don't even have a head coach, this is one call that can be handled by the players IMO.

[Rocco Jones]

I don't cop that. The club as a whole is bigger than it's players.

There could be some really ugly scenes if he plays.

Totally, totally agree Mantis.

It perpetuates the feeling that the players are the club.

If we have any pride as fans, I am sure there will be ugly scenes. I personally find he is holding the club I love in contempt by playing.

[Mantis]

There is a trend in football towards empowering the leadership group (and therefore by proxy, the playing group) in making important decisions. Given we don't even have a head coach, this is one call that can be handled by the players IMO.

Given we don't have a head coach the CEO, President & Head of Football should be making these important decisions.

The players are there to play.

[Rocco Jones]

Given we don't have a head coach the CEO, President & Head of Football should be making these important decisions.

The players are there to play.

Yep. The CEO, President and Head of footy are there to think of the whole club.

Do we think what the fans think even crossed the players mind when they decided Ward was to play?

[1eyedog]

I don't cop that. The club as a whole is bigger than it's players.

There could be some really ugly scenes if he plays.

Agreed and it will be a real shame for Hall and Hudson to go out like this.

They will remember the fans anger at Callan rather than a celebration of two fine players who had very different, but equally effective football careers.

The mob will speak and speak loud.

That's the real shame.

[GVGjr]

Given we don't have a head coach the CEO, President & Head of Football should be making these important decisions.

The players are there to play.

So we entrust the leadership group to play a part in disciplining their own but they now cannot be trusted to make a call on if they are happy to play alongside of someone leaving the club for just one more game?

Surely if anyone is let down by Wards decision to make the move to GWS it's the players. If they can handle it, I can as well.

[Mantis]

So we entrust the leadership group to play a part in disciplining their own but they now cannot be trusted to make a call on if they are happy to play alongside of someone leaving the club for just one more game?

Surely if anyone is let down by Wards decision to make the move to GWS it's the players. If they can handle it, I can as well.

I am not worried about the playing of the game.

I am worried about the images that will be portrayed of our disgruntled fans (and there will be some) going 'nutso' post game when we should be celebrating the careers of some great servants.

As TCD mentioned in another thread it's also not a great thing that our own fans will boo our own players which is bound to happen.

This issue is bigger than the playing group.

[AndrewP6]

So we entrust the leadership group to play a part in disciplining their own but they now cannot be trusted to make a call on if they are happy to play alongside of someone leaving the club for just one more game?


Don't get me started on that particular issue ;)

[Ghost Dog]

So should Rocket have coached out the season?
He didn't want to distract from the club, or draw unwanted attention.
Similarities there.

Supporters are going to use his presence on the ground ( unfairly ) to channel the annoyance of this season.
Ward doesn't deserve that, Barry doesn't, Beard doesn't, Mitch doesn'tbut it's what he's going to get if he plays.

[GVGjr]

I am not worried about the playing of the game.

I am worried about the images that will be portrayed of our disgruntled fans (and there will be some) going 'nutso' post game when we should be celebrating the careers of some great servants.

As TCD mentioned in another thread it's also not a great thing that our own fans will boo our own players which is bound to happen.

This issue is bigger than the playing group.

I don't believe it is. There was no fan outcry last year for Harbrow to be dropped when despite the fact he hadn't confirmed it we all knew he was already gone.
The simple fact was that we were playing finals so in the fans eyes Harbrow was a required player. This double standard is exactly why the fans should have no say in it.
If we were still battling for a finals position most would be treating Ward like they did with Harbrow. Most fans are only taking a far tougher stance on Ward because we aren't in the finals mix.

As for fans booing or discrediting their own players, I hear this most weeks when we lose.

[Doc26]

So we entrust the leadership group to play a part in disciplining their own but they now cannot be trusted to make a call on if they are happy to play alongside of someone leaving the club for just one more game?

Surely if anyone is let down by Wards decision to make the move to GWS it's the players. If they can handle it, I can as well.

I suggest the players can handle it as individually they have empathy with the decision, that maybe they might find themselves with a similar dilemma albeit at a different scale.

Unfortunately this does little for breeding a culture of putting the Club before personal interest or motivation.

This is a decision that should be taken outside the players hands if collectively they can't appreciate what should be the minimum acceptable standards of what it means to be a part of this Club.

I argue that their decision is driven out of empathy and mateship, and not from a Club first mentality.

I see it as selling the Club short.

[Rocco Jones]

So should Rocket have coached out the season?
He didn't want to distract from the club, or draw unwanted attention.
Similarities there.

Supporters are going to use his presence on the ground ( unfairly ) to channel the annoyance of this season.
Ward doesn't deserve that, Barry doesn't, Beard doesn't, Mitch doesn'tbut it's what he's going to get if he plays.

I would have much, MUCH rathered Rocket staying on than Ward and I wanted Eade sacked. Thing is, the club didn't make the decision for Eade to go 3 weeks early, he did. The club is too meek and pathetic to do it itself.

[Rocco Jones]

On GVG's point about the leadership group.

I believe we should entrust them to make decisions that are purely onfield related as they have the expertise and knowledge.

Ward playing is different as it goes beyond what happens onfield, it involves how our fans feel about it and I am not sure the players are equipped or care about that. They are making an uneducated call.

[w3design]

I am not worried about the playing of the game.

I am worried about the images that will be portrayed of our disgruntled fans (and there will be some) going 'nutso' post game when we should be celebrating the careers of some great servants.

As TCD mentioned in another thread it's also not a great thing that our own fans will boo our own players which is bound to happen.

This issue is bigger than the playing group.
Agree. The players could, with respect, be the worst placed to make this decision. Their feelings of mateship or loyalty are not the ones that should be guiding this decision. The club's external image to its supporters and the outside world are more important.

Having said that, where does this impression that it has been the players' call come from? Do we know that it was left up to them? Or is this an assumption?

[GVGjr]

So should Rocket have coached out the season?
He didn't want to distract from the club, or draw unwanted attention.
Similarities there.

Supporters are going to use his presence on the ground ( unfairly ) to channel the annoyance of this season.
Ward doesn't deserve that, Barry doesn't, Beard doesn't, Mitch doesn'tbut it's what he's going to get if he plays.


According to the club he was given that opportunity if he wanted to as a sign of respect for everything he had achieved. He chose not to and we all respected that.

That is why I believe it comes down to the leadership group. If they feel he has earned the right for a final game then I that's OK with me. Equally, if they felt as though Callan shouldn't be selected I'd support that as well.

[GVGjr]

On GVG's point about the leadership group.

I believe we should entrust them to make decisions that are purely onfield related as they have the expertise and knowledge.

Ward playing is different as it goes beyond what happens onfield, it involves how our fans feel about it and I am not sure the players are equipped or care about that. They are making an uneducated call.

Were you as passionate about Harbrow last year when he wouldn't commit to the club or did the fact that he could contribute in our finals campaign mean more then than the stance you are currently taking?

The only difference I can see for everyone taking this stance is that we aren't in the finals mix and Ward has come forward with his decision a week earlier than Harbrow did.

[Doc26]

Were you as passionate about Harbrow last year when he wouldn't commit to the club or did the fact that he could contribute in our finals campaign mean more then than the stance you are currently taking?

The only difference I can see for everyone taking this stance is that we aren't in the finals mix and Ward has come forward with his decision a week earlier than Harbrow did.

GvgJr, I preface this by saying I tend to support your views and comments but on this topic I'm not aligned.

Playing Harbrow was a decision taken that was seen to benefit the Club in it's goal of winning a premiership. How does playing Ward this week benefit the Club ? If we were playing finals and Callan's form was to benefit the Club's objective of winning finals then I would have no problem playing him, in fact I'd support it. A club first mentality should drive these decisions. In this instance I see more upside for the Club in playing one of our listed players at Willy over Cal.

[comrade]

Playing Harbrow was a decision taken that was seen to benefit the Club in it's goal of winning a premiership. How does playing Ward this week benefit the Club ? If we were playing finals and Callan's form was to benefit the Club's objective of winning finals then I would have no problem playing him, in fact I'd support it. A club first mentality should drive these decisions. In this instance I see more upside for the Club in playing one of our listed players at Willy over Cal.

Exactly. It's completely different to the Harbrow scenario.

[GVGjr]

How does playing Ward this week benefit the Club ? If we were playing finals and Callan's form was to benefit the Club's objective of winning finals then I would have no problem playing him, in fact I'd support it. A club first mentality should drive these decisions. In this instance I see more upside for the Club in playing one of our listed players at Willy over Cal.

How does dropping him benefit the club? I'd also ask is having standards that are only applied after consideration of our ladder position a good thing?

If we want to be ruthless, do we go as far as dropping every player that won't be at the club next year? Of course we don't.

[bornadog]

I voted yes to play, I really don't care, I just want a win on Saturday.

[Dry Rot]

I voted yes to play, I really don't care, I just want a win on Saturday.

+1. Give Hall and Hudson the send-off they deserve.

[strebla]

Has he said he is leaving?? Of course he should play and be wary any bulldogs supporter who jumps the gun it isn't over until it's over.

[Ghost Dog]

How does dropping him benefit the club? I'd also ask is having standards that are only applied after consideration of our ladder position a good thing?

If we want to be ruthless, do we go as far as dropping every player that won't be at the club next year? Of course we don't.


But on the other boot, What's in it for us to play him?


People have already given stacks of reasons why it would benefit the club to drop him.


Most posters seem to agree it would be better if we called it a day for Callan, with good reasons.

[Dancin' Douggy]

he is not a bulldog player anymore. he doesn't play. simple

[Doc26]

How does dropping him benefit the club?

Christian Howard would benefit more with game time than being listed as an emergency when the likes of Ward will be taking it in his stride next season to pulverise the likes of Christian.

It also sends a strong statement that you're either with us or you're not and that we will look after our own first, that casting us off for a personal pot of gold is not to be rewarded by the Club.


I'd also ask is having standards that are only applied after consideration of our ladder position a good thing?

I agree, there is an element of double standard although it is borne out of a desperation to see this Club win a premiership before I shuffle off this mortal coil. I know I'm not alone in this thinking. It is still driven by Club first and not stemming from serving the individual motivation of any given player who elects to sell us out for their own personal gain.


If we want to be ruthless, do we go as far as dropping every player that won't be at the club next year? Of course we don't.

I don't believe our available list would stretch that far.

With that said, going into the final round against a depleted Freo in controlled conditions, firstly we should provide our kids with the opportunities that present and Cal holding a spot now is simply in the way of this. Just ask Christian who now languishes as an emergency. Secondly, lets farewell with dignity those servants of the Club who have shown loyalty and stuck with us to the end ala Ben, Mitch and for a brief period, Barry. Thirdly, play our regulars who are not in dire need of a rest. If after filling these categories we still can't field a squad then we're obliged to play those likely to be dropped off. Then there's Ward if we must.

[comrade]

Really well said, Doc. I agree with everything you have written.

[Greystache]

Really well said, Doc. I agree with everything you have written.

+1

Well said Doc

[SonofScray]

Doc, thank you for that post. I am able to sleep a bit better tonight knowing that the whole world hasn't gone completely mad. This scenario has just about wrecked my week. I have been trawling the forums and facebook page and just cannot believe some of what I read. So little pride in the fan base.

[GVGjr]

But on the other boot, What's in it for us to play him?


People have already given stacks of reasons why it would benefit the club to drop him.



We have picked our best side, we give Hall and Hudson the best chance of proper send off.

People who say it would help Howard or Wallis don't even know that they would be selected. It's just as likely it would be Hill or Addison.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We have picked our best side, we give Hall and Hudson the best chance of proper send off.

People who say it would help Howard or Wallis don't even know that they would be selected. It's just as likely it would be Hill or Addison.

Which only further proves how inept this club is at the moment. What we are saying is that based on logic, Ward shouldn't be playing with us on Saturday. He's not going to be with us anymore - it's a waste of time. Howard is a young guy we need to develop as quickly as possible, and who should have got more games this year. This is what should happen - it's not to say the club would ever do it, which is why people are angry. (FWIW I would still rather Hill or Addison).

I'm a little surprised at the criticism Ward has escaped. It's a selfish act what he's done, and I am not referring to taking the money. I am referring to not telling the club until now, and not giving up his position in the side. Davis had the guts, respect and dignity to leave before the year was out. Ward only thought of himself.

[GVGjr]

It also sends a strong statement that you're either with us or you're not and that we will look after our own first, that casting us off for a personal pot of gold is not to be rewarded by the Club.


The only message it sends is for players not to tell the club anything before the end of the season to save everyone, including the fans, some aggro.
As fans, we accepted the same thing from Harbrow because he didn't make his intentions clear before the end of the season (so we didn't have to deal with it and of course ignorance is bliss) and we also had finals to justify why it was a good thing to keep playing him or at the very least to provide a level of flexibility within our standards and team selection decisions.
Because Ward has apparently told us just before the final game of his intentions to leave we are now wanting to make a statement and punishing him will supposedly justify it for the fans.

I get why everyone is upset and as I have said I think he has made the wrong decision but dropping him to make a statement will just about put a line though players coming forward and making their intentions clear in the future. It certainly won't promote or improve the whole "you're either with us or against us" philosophy most are suggesting. At best it's just a token statement that will only be applied if we aren't in finals contention.

I don't care if he plays or not but I do believe it comes down to the players and coaches to make that call rather than the fans.

[GVGjr]

I'm a little surprised at the criticism Ward has escaped. It's a selfish act what he's done, and I am not referring to taking the money. I am referring to not telling the club until now, and not giving up his position in the side. Davis had the guts, respect and dignity to leave before the year was out. Ward only thought of himself.

Were you this passionate about Harbrow who actually just deferred the decision?
From my understanding, the Crows players and coaches made the decision on Davis. I do applaud their united position and it does make it easier for everyone.

Based on what we have read so far our club is denying that they know Wards decision.

[Ghost Dog]

We have picked our best side, we give Hall and Hudson the best chance of proper send off.

People who say it would help Howard or Wallis don't even know that they would be selected. It's just as likely it would be Hill or Addison.

And what would be wrong with that? Josh had a good game last week.

It's no longer Callans turn. He had a turn.

The fans are shareholders. Like it or not, they have a say in what goes on at the club. Players can't be so aloof as to pretend that's not a reality. For them, it's business. For us, tthe desire to follow a largely unsuccessful club for decades is not sustained by such level headed-ness.
Do you think Richmond supporters would let him take the field without polite applause? Or Collingwood fans? The false teeth and spittle would be flying.

The club are minimizing the damage so it won't turn ugly at the game by playing dumb. Too late, cats out of the bag.

Comparing it to Harbrow is apples and oranges. He had family in QLD and everyone accepts that as a good reason to go.
Callan is a local boy and Sedat has made some excellent points as to why this decision cuts much deeper than Harbrow.

He is not in our "best" 22 IMO. Define, how you will 'best'.
Sometimes, It's not all about winning, it's HOW you win.

[Ghost Dog]

Christian Howard would benefit more with game time than being listed as an emergency when the likes of Ward will be taking it in his stride next season to pulverise the likes of Christian.

It also sends a strong statement that you're either with us or you're not and that we will look after our own first, that casting us off for a personal pot of gold is not to be rewarded by the Club.



I agree, there is an element of double standard although it is borne out of a desperation to see this Club win a premiership before I shuffle off this mortal coil. I know I'm not alone in this thinking. It is still driven by Club first and not stemming from serving the individual motivation of any given player who elects to sell us out for their own personal gain.



I don't believe our available list would stretch that far.

With that said, going into the final round against a depleted Freo in controlled conditions, firstly we should provide our kids with the opportunities that present and Cal holding a spot now is simply in the way of this. Just ask Christian who now languishes as an emergency. Secondly, lets farewell with dignity those servants of the Club who have shown loyalty and stuck with us to the end ala Ben, Mitch and for a brief period, Barry. Thirdly, play our regulars who are not in dire need of a rest. If after filling these categories we still can't field a squad then we're obliged to play those likely to be dropped off. Then there's Ward if we must.


Right on Doc

[GVGjr]

And what would be wrong with that? Josh had a good game last week.
Addison also, deserves his turn.
It's no longer Callans turn. He had a turn.


It's hardly going to make the same sort of difference that the original post that I quoted suggested of how another senior game would benefit Howard. By the way, if a home and away game would make such a big difference to Howard, what could have finals berth to two done for someone else last year.
The general consensus 12 months ago was that it was fine to play Harbrow but we have now changed our position. I tend to think our ladder position is dictating this



The fans are shareholders. Like it or not, they have a say in what goes on at the club. Players can't be so aloof as to pretend that's not a reality.


The consideration of the fans view at the selection table should make for an interesting future.




Comparing it to Harbrow is apples and oranges. He had family in QLD and everyone accepts that as a good reason to go.
Callan is a local boy and Sedat has made some excellent points as to why this really smarts.



Really, apples and oranges? Harbrow used the go home factor as his reasoning and it sounded plausible but in reality he would have never switched as easily to Brisbane because the money wasn't there. He might have even stayed.
The big difference is Harbrow didn't tell the club until after the final game to ensure he had the chance to play finals football. Perhaps it is apples and oranges but I don't see why Harbrow got a free passage with our supporters emotions but Ward is Darth Vader when they have both decided to make the move for financial reasons.

When we are good enough to win with whatever style or standards you think should be applied then we will already have as super side.

Sedat did make some great points but there is also the question of how well the club managed the negotiation and if the club had done it better there could have very well been a different result.

[Ghost Dog]

The consideration of the fans view at the selection table should make for an interesting future.

This is a rare event and special set of circumstances.

You absolutely KNOW he would have been captain if he had stayed. So our future captain is lured away. That hurts.

Would Collingwood fans politely applaud him on Saturday? Or Carlton fans? Richmond fans?

This in turn, must surely be a factor for the MC, in a so called " member appreciation round" which could be set to generate plenty of bad PR.


Really, apples and oranges? Harbrow used the go home factor as his reasoning and it sounded plausible but in reality he would have never switched as easily to Brisbane because the money wasn't there. .

Yes really. Apples and Oranges. One was going to be our captain, the other, not. One a ball winner, an attacking player and champion of the local area, the other, not even from our district to begin with. Sure money was a factor.
To use a music industry analogy, it's like losing your lead singer compared to losing your drummer. ^_^

The Bris or Gold coast thing you raise is a non-point. If you have two clubs in Queensland, your home state, and one is just up the road but wants to put an extra 200,000 in your pocket....

Anyway. Asking footy fans to be logical and consistent and not overly emotional is a bit rich!

[LostDoggy]

Doc, thank you for that post. I am able to sleep a bit better tonight knowing that the whole world hasn't gone completely mad. This scenario has just about wrecked my week. I have been trawling the forums and facebook page and just cannot believe some of what I read. So little pride in the fan base.

Agree with Doc and SOS.

Still hoping for a late out before the match. No prizes on guessing who that late out would be. Seeing as though Freo are down to a carcass bring in Howard.

If this late change doesn't go ahead it's gutless from both parties.

[chef]

How does dropping him benefit the club? I'd also ask is having standards that are only applied after consideration of our ladder position a good thing?

If we want to be ruthless, do we go as far as dropping every player that won't be at the club next year? Of course we don't.

To me it would send the message that if don't want to be here there's the door we will play someone who does. One of Howard, Hill, Addison, Stack, Minson, Hooper etc should be in that team and we would benefit more from that in terms of list management and development. I would rather even give Gilbee a game.

[LostDoggy]

Reminds of the final round of 2003 when we all knew Nathan Brown was going to leave but nothing official had been said. It was Kretiuk's last game and we got belted by Brisbane. I had a lingering, faint hope that Brown would stay but he threw his boots into the crowd at the end of the game and I knew that was it, he was gone. Ward and Brown are not of the same ilk (not that I know either of them personally) but the end result for the Doggies is the same. A really good player has gone elsewhere because of money. In this instance I can thank Demetriou and his cohorts. The fact that Ward's team mates are standing by him and want him to play just says to me that they get why he is leaving and if they were offered the right amount of cash, they'd go too. This is footy and just adds to my malaise about the game's changing landscape. I would rather Ward wasn't playing tomorrow.

GVGjr you are so level headed and grown up about these things. I just feel sulky.

MsBulldog you make some very pertinent points - I'm feeling a little sulky too, but I guess if the players are okay with it, well, who am I to throw a dummy spit? Trying to be grown up, and struggling! LOL!

[SonofScray]

MsBulldog you make some very pertinent points - I'm feeling a little sulky too, but I guess if the players are okay with it, well, who am I to throw a dummy spit? Trying to be grown up, and struggling! LOL!

The players need a bit of a reality check as well then, if they are OK with it. Through all the empowerment of the leadership groups and implementation of very clinical processes that our guys seem to have embraced so closely, they have forgotten one thing. The fans are the Club, they represent us. It is not reasonable to expect us as fans to out a player before the Club.

[Grantysghost]

.

I don't care if he plays or not but I do believe it comes down to the players and coaches to make that call rather than the fans.

If a mate of mine told me he was going to change his allegiance to a new team next year, but wanted to still come along and see the doggies one last time i know what i'd be telling him to do!

[Pembleton]

I wouldn't even let Mr Ward back in the door of the club except to clear his locker, let alone into the jumper and onto the field.

I don't care at all what the players think. It is not unsurprising at all that they can accept his decision. It just shows that all players have that element of mercenary in them, and understandably so. A young bloke in a job with a relatively short period of high earning capacity taking the much bigger and longer contract. Yep, that's easy enough to understand.

But this is footy, and footy is different, because it has the additional element of footy fans. You get adored for being a club hero, and you get savaged for chasing money. $450k a year isn't enough money for you to stay and accept our adoration? Well, get the hell out of the place right now and get on with assessing your investment options.

The "no loyalty in footy" line is used a lot. It utterly misses the point though. How many of us have ever changed clubs? The overwhlmingly vast majority of people involved in footy, the fans, are intensely loyal. Rarely does that get to be reflected in decisions made about match day. This is a time when our club should pay attention to what we want. There is nothing to be lost, and if the players don't like it, they should learn the lesson that they play for our club, we don't barrack for theirs.

I've seen comments comparing it to Harbrow last year. It has been alleged that finals compared to meaningless match is a factor, but i can't ascertain why that is supposed to be an innappropriate factor to consider. In any event, he would not have indicated his decision to his teammates had we been heading into the finals.

[The Pie Man]

If he's gone, surely the players can stay on good terms without him playing this week.

Is leaving it up to the playing group a bit of tail wagging the dog? (pun not intended)

I don't intend to be vindictive or spiteful - he should be welcome to all post season functions etc, but I firmly believe he shouldn't be playing. I'm hoping (I fear in vain) that it's not embarrassing tomorrow re: crowd response.

[Mofra]

On GVG's point about the leadership group.

I believe we should entrust them to make decisions that are purely onfield related as they have the expertise and knowledge.

Ward playing is different as it goes beyond what happens onfield, it involves how our fans feel about it and I am not sure the players are equipped or care about that. They are making an uneducated call.
I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest as I respect all views on the subject, but I think this is exactly the sort of on-field call that should be left to the playing group.

Fans "feelings" are going to vary widely anyway - I wouldn't want the leadership group taking polls every time they are asked to make a decision - they're they to lead by decision, not by consensus.

I'd hope that once the ball bounces people will be more concerned with Hall snagging a few & Huddo getting fed a gimme goal in the F50 than the possession count of a player who wont be there next year - and potentially one or two others that wont be either.

I dare say Ward will still be on the end of season trip with the boys - heck, Brown was a groomsman at Gia's wedding.

[Ozza]

Rocket put his hand up 3 weeks ago and said - I won't coach the last 3 games, its going to be awkward and the club needs to move on.

I think Cal should have put up his hand and said the same about this week. Just announce he is going - and say that he doesn't want to take the focus off it being Baz and Huddo's last game. I think that would have been pretty respectful in the circumstances.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't even let Mr Ward back in the door of the club except to clear his locker, let alone into the jumper and onto the field.

I don't care at all what the players think. It is not unsurprising at all that they can accept his decision. It just shows that all players have that element of mercenary in them, and understandably so. A young bloke in a job with a relatively short period of high earning capacity taking the much bigger and longer contract. Yep, that's easy enough to understand.

But this is footy, and footy is different, because it has the additional element of footy fans. You get adored for being a club hero, and you get savaged for chasing money. $450k a year isn't enough money for you to stay and accept our adoration? Well, get the hell out of the place right now and get on with assessing your investment options.

The "no loyalty in footy" line is used a lot. It utterly misses the point though. How many of us have ever changed clubs? The overwhlmingly vast majority of people involved in footy, the fans, are intensely loyal. Rarely does that get to be reflected in decisions made about match day. This is a time when our club should pay attention to what we want. There is nothing to be lost, and if the players don't like it, they should learn the lesson that they play for our club, we don't barrack for theirs.

I've seen comments comparing it to Harbrow last year. It has been alleged that finals compared to meaningless match is a factor, but i can't ascertain why that is supposed to be an innappropriate factor to consider. In any event, he would not have indicated his decision to his teammates had we been heading into the finals.

You should post more Scotty.
I think you are spot on here.

[choconmientay]

I think we all should get used to the fact that player changing club is normal and we should treat it as business as usual and move on. It happen a lot in other sports and in life. Back to my time in Europe, soccer players were chasing money and changing club after the season and we do not feel the bitterness against them. It is part of the big business.

In Ward case, I vote to play him this week. I have enjoyed the time seeing him playing at the dogs and growth with us. So thanks for the good time. Next season, however, I will scream 'Judas' when he come back and play against us.

[1eyedog]

How does dropping him benefit the club? I'd also ask is having standards that are only applied after consideration of our ladder position a good thing?

If we want to be ruthless, do we go as far as dropping every player that won't be at the club next year? Of course we don't.


More to the point what is the risk playing him and how does it benefit the club playing him for that matter?

Many fans are disillusioned by what has unfolded this week and it is obvious that they are disgruntled by what happened with Harbrow last season. Their discontent has up until now been directed at the AFL as well as GC and GWS. This is all on the back of Rocket being cut loose as well as some serious uncertainty about Fantasia's capacity to manage people effectively. Quite simply, the club is on its knees again in many respects and the fans want to see some bite and pride back and it starts at the top with the decision makers.

The players may want Ward to play and I understand their position as best as I can, but a great deal many members don't want to see Ward running around this week and they are upset that the club would allow it. They see it as weak and that it reflects poorly on the MC. This does not help this club's reputation internally or externally. My fear is that because of this decision (as well as the Rocket decision) we will lose a lot of these members next year to the point where we will have the lowest member numbers in the competition by a long way. Members matter and the overwhelming view from the stands is that Ward shouldn't play.

This assesssment is based on the opinion of 3 or 4 Bulldogs fans I know and even some family members (I have a very long line of staunch Bulldog members in my family) will be upset if he plays. Maybe my family and friends (as well as others I'm sure) don't see the bigger picture and our discontent is goverened by emotion rather than what is best for the club, but it's bloody emotional thing being a Bulldog's supporter and that is just the way it is for many of us. Quite simply, it is us members who have been with the club forever, my children will take up the mantle of my family when I move on from this world. In 50 years Callan Ward will be a old man and will be faintly remembered as as GWS player, my sons will be 54 and 52 years old respectively and will enter Bulldog's games with their memberships firmly around their necks.

Members matter , but my fear is that fickle members who signed up for success will turn their backs even further next year if Ward plays. There is a bigger picture here, one rife with greater repercussions. The club needs to be mindful of this and take a stand.

[LostDoggy]

What if he gets injured?

[bornadog]

What if he gets injured?

Yeah, what happens if he does his knee?

[1eyedog]

Yeah, what happens if he does his knee?

Depends what his contract says.

[cinder]

Just to give everyone a much needed smile:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-etiT08RDnPg/TmBA0JjsC5I/AAAAAAAACpg/X5KXcQ153xw/Dahl_Hall.JPG

[bornadog]

Wards potential team mates:

* Scully has withdrawn from playing this weekend.

*Daisy has now signed with Collingwood and says he did receive a big offer from GWS

[G-Mo77]

Wards potential team mates:

* Scully has withdrawn from playing this weekend.




At least Melbourne has the balls to make the right decision, can't say the same about our club.

[Maddog37]

Just to give everyone a much needed smile:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-etiT08RDnPg/TmBA0JjsC5I/AAAAAAAACpg/X5KXcQ153xw/Dahl_Hall.JPG

Looks like Predator.......scary!

[Doc26]

Looks like Predator.......scary!

That's a good call Maddog :)

[Greystache]

At least Melbourne has the balls to make the right decision, can't say the same about our club.

So did Fremantle with Palmer.

It's terrifying when Melbourne and Freo are making tougher decisions than we are.

[G-Mo77]

So did Fremantle with Palmer.

It's terrifying when Melbourne and Freo are making tougher decisions than we are.

Says a lot about our club doesn't it.

WEAK!!!! :mad:

[The Coon Dog]

I keep hearing whispers that Jordan Russell has signed with GWS & that's why Ratten wont play him.

[immortalmike]

I think we all should get used to the fact that player changing club is normal and we should treat it as business as usual and move on. It happen a lot in other sports and in life. Back to my time in Europe, soccer players were chasing money and changing club after the season and we do not feel the bitterness against them. It is part of the big business.

In Ward case, I vote to play him this week. I have enjoyed the time seeing him playing at the dogs and growth with us. So thanks for the good time. Next season, however, I will scream 'Judas' when he come back and play against us.

This is my problem with the whole situation. The souless corporatism of Soccer is creeping into Football and it makes me sick. I wanted the AFL to be the last professional sport where playing for the jumper means something, where loyalty and mateship is all a club like ours needs to be successful.

Unfortunately with luring away of a player (a local boy at that i.e.. someone who knows first hand how many kicks in the nuts us westies have had to deal with) purely and only for money signals a big change in my feelings about the players and indeed the sport as a whole. The constant swapping and changing is what drove me away from Soccer and Basketball I fear it may drive me away from Footy as well. This will be especially true if we end up a feeder club to the other teams. Without the aura (real or fake) of club loyalty I fear for the future of the Western Bulldogs. But I guess we partially signed our own death warrant with the dumping of Rodney Eade.

[Greystache]

I keep hearing whispers that Jordan Russell has signed with GWS & that's why Ratten wont play him.

Interesting, were they shopping him around last trade period?

[The Coon Dog]

Interesting, were they shopping him around last trade period?

I don't think so, from memory he was runner up in their B&F.

* Just checked & he was runner up to Chris Judd.

[Remi Moses]

Tail wagging the Dog( pardon the pun)
Pathetic is the only adjective I could describe this decision!
Just wait for the limp response when we get bent over with the compensation picks
Starting to agree with others re. James Fantasia, he's atrocious

[Greystache]

I don't think so, from memory he was runner up in their B&F.

* Just checked & he was runner up to Chris Judd.

Cheers, I must have been thinking of someone else. We'll have to keep an eye on him.

[Bulldog4life]

According to the club he was given that opportunity if he wanted to as a sign of respect for everything he had achieved. He chose not to and we all respected that.

That is why I believe it comes down to the leadership group. If they feel he has earned the right for a final game then I that's OK with me. Equally, if they felt as though Callan shouldn't be selected I'd support that as well.

That's the point. He hasn't said it is his final game. Maybe the leadership group have been told and the fans have been left in the outer. Who knows? If he knows he is leaving he should pull out of the team himself to stop the booing and leave the day to Bazza & Huddo to enjoy. I would respect him more for that "if" he does leave after the season.

[the banker]

If and when he goes, the decision to play him will seem very weak, regardless of what the playing group want.

There is risk in involving the Playing group in decisions such as this. The culture can get distorted.

Success requires a strong Head of Football who has excellent judgement and the courage to see decisions through. Indications are, esp on this forum, that it may be lacking ATM.

General soreness was a very good out for Melbourne and Scully.

[mjp]

If and when he goes, the decision to play him will seem very weak, regardless of what the playing group want.

There is risk in involving the Playing group in decisions such as this. The culture can get distorted.

Success requires a strong Head of Football who has excellent judgement and the courage to see decisions through. Indications are, esp on this forum, that it may be lacking ATM.

General soreness was a very good out for Melbourne and Scully.

'General Soreness' is not an 'OUT'. If they wanted to take a stand, they would put 'Signed with GWS' as the reason.

What the players DO is the culture of the place. Ward has played with heart and passion for the majority of the year - he has not exactly let the team down. He has been at the club longer than Barry Hall (who is at his 3rd - and arguably least successful - club/career phase) and who will receive a heros sendoff.

The players want him to play because he IS one of them - for one more day at least. If he is in the best 22, he should play...

[SonofScray]

Spill the lot of them, *!*!*!*!ing losers. So disappointed in the players if that is the case. Fair? Probably not, just how I am feeling about it all. Ruined my week so far.

[Raw Toast]

Keep logging on in the expectation of finding that Ward has been dropped - just dumbfounded that he has not been.


What the players DO is the culture of the place. Ward has played with heart and passion for the majority of the year - he has not exactly let the team down. He has been at the club longer than Barry Hall (who is at his 3rd - and arguably least successful - club/career phase) and who will receive a heros sendoff.

Yes but the players are not playing for themselves. They play for OUR club, which is sustained by our loyalty and finances. Ward has committed to another club - this is clear now - and there should be no place for him to be representing US, when he is no longer committed to our club.

The football world is an incredibly complicated place, while at the same time also a very simple equation of us against them. Ward is no longer one of us.

In addition, supporters will boo him which while sickening is very understandable (and I cannot find it in me at the moment to wish him well). I want to go to the game and focus just on sending off two wonderful players - not to feel conflicted every time Ward is involved in the play.

To put it another way, football remains for fans, a place of love. Would you want someone you have loved to go out with you in public after deciding they were going to live with someone else? I started falling for Ward when I first heard about him from one of his coaches, and the agonising wait to see if we would be able to pick him, followed by the ecstasy when we did, remains my most memorable draft experience. I have followed him with special interest from that time. He brought me solace with his bog against the Saints in last year's awful prelim. And his indecision this year, followed by his decision, has been horrible.

Ben Hudson and Barry Hall came to us and embraced us and will go out of the game proudly wearing the red, white and blue and I truly love them for it. I don't hate Ward, but I abhor the idea of him being in the our colours now that he has decided to leave us. He is now one of them, and I never want him around the club again. I'm happy for him to be friends with the players and go out with them all he likes, I just ask him please to not go through the farce of wearing the colours that I still love on Saturday.

[Rocco Jones]

Totally agree RT.

I am all for the players having power but this is a decision that goes behind their scope. Callan Ward is represent more than 21 other people when he goes out to play tomorrow.

Losing frustrates me greatly but what him wearing our colours tomorrow truly eats away at the pride I have in the club I love.

[Remi Moses]

Comparing Ward with Barry is just comcal.
Don't get out supporters, I really don't!

[Rocco Jones]

Comparing Ward with Barry is just comcal.
Don't get out supporters, I really don't!

Perhaps we have been put through much so suffering our fans don't blame others for wanting to live the joint. I agree with you RM, I'm really shocked with our fans. We seem to have very little pride.

[Remi Moses]

Great work RT. Very passionate and the right call.

[Remi Moses]

Perhaps we have been put through much so suffering our fans don't blame others for wanting to live the joint. I agree with you RM, I'm really shocked with our fans. We seem to have very little pride.

Basically in a nutshell Ward has just said I don't believe in the club's playing group and I'm going. Just imagine If Ward had done this to a club with some sort of Culture.
Imagine Eddie's reaction! His Head would be purple with rage by now!

[FrediKanoute]

We pay our membership each year because we are loyal Bulldog supporters. We pay our membership in the hope that the team will perform to a level that will one day deliver a premiership success, but regardless we support them through the good and bad times.

Why should we as supporters pay to watch a guy who has turned his back on the Bulldogs to earn more money in 5 years than most of us diehard fans will earn in a lifetime. Its time for the club to take a stand, just as they did when they said to Wallace, no you can't coach out the season; just as they did to Aker. We as a club owe Ward nothing.

As for those saying that this is the fault of the AFL, that's rubbish. Yes they created a situation, but at the end of the day the decision to leave for money was made by Callan.

[Doc26]

Comparing Ward with Barry is just comcal.
Don't get out supporters, I really don't!


Perhaps we have been put through much so suffering our fans don't blame others for wanting to live the joint. I agree with you RM, I'm really shocked with our fans. We seem to have very little pride.

Guys don't be too disheartened by the supporter base. We are a resilient bunch with immense pride, just displayed in different ways. If the current poll numbers in this thread are any indication on the broader supporter sentiment then a great majority don't want Callan out there tomorrow. From my reading, the leadership group's call is at odds with the supporter base. I stand by my view, it's a poor call by our MC to put this decision in the collective hands of Boyd and co. and a poorer call that our 'management' have not stepped in to bring some dignity back to the place. The players by themselves are not the Club nor alone do their actions define the culture of this Club, it runs far deeper than a few very well paid employees given the privilege for brief periods in our history to represent the Club to our core values.

[FrediKanoute]

I think we all should get used to the fact that player changing club is normal and we should treat it as business as usual and move on. It happen a lot in other sports and in life. Back to my time in Europe, soccer players were chasing money and changing club after the season and we do not feel the bitterness against them. It is part of the big business.

In Ward case, I vote to play him this week. I have enjoyed the time seeing him playing at the dogs and growth with us. So thanks for the good time. Next season, however, I will scream 'Judas' when he come back and play against us.

Yep and precisely the reason football (soccer) has disengaged from the community to such an extent. I watch both. The difference between the two is the passion I feel for Bulldogs players compared to Spurs players.

Spurs have just closed the transfer window and retained a really good midfielder in Luca Modric.....if he had gone I would have been disappointed, but not as disappointed as if Bale had left. Why, because Spurs have nurtured Bale since her arrived as a 17 year old. I've seen him grow into a fabulous player. I don't have that connection with the majority of the Spurs squad who habg around for 3 or 4 seasons and ship off. Its the reason I wont put a spurs players name on my top.......

Is this really what we want from our AFL teams? Believe me I love watching Spurs, but I have none of the connection with the players that I do with the Doggies.

Finally, I can't accept that you would allow a guy who has left the tribe to play a game and support him onlyto cal him Judas next year. The betrayal is now, not next year.

[FrediKanoute]

There is a trend in football towards empowering the leadership group (and therefore by proxy, the playing group) in making important decisions. Given we don't even have a head coach, this is one call that can be handled by the players IMO.


Leadership Group???? We have the most appalling leadership group in the league if they let Ward play!

Would Glen Archer have let Ward play in a simiar situation?
Would EJ have said, "yeah mate why not have a farewell game?"

We have a soft belly. The club is dreaming if they think that we'll bounce back quickly form this. We have a cancer in the club which we have patched up, but this decision to let him play smacks of weakness and a distinct lack of pride in the jumper and what it means to play for that jumper!

[SonofScray]

Perhaps we have been put through much so suffering our fans don't blame others for wanting to live the joint. I agree with you RM, I'm really shocked with our fans. We seem to have very little pride.

No pride at all. Shameful work by many of our own. Self loathing, born losers.

[Raw Toast]

Losing frustrates me greatly but what him wearing our colours tomorrow truly eats away at the pride I have in the club I love.

There is something humiliating about this situation but two things:

1) I don't mind that our fans are conflicted regard this - it's very difficult situation, and for all of the snarkiness that inevitably happens with groups of people, our fans are pretty incredible, and we have close to the highest percentage of supporters who are members in the AFL

2) There's still lots to be proud of with the red, white and blue


Guys don't be too disheartened by the supporter base. If the current poll numbers in this thread are any indication on the broader supporter sentiment then a great majority don't want Callan out there tomorrow. From my reading, the leadership group's call is at odds with the supporter base. I stand by my view, it's a poor call by our MC to put this decision in the collective hands of Boyd and co. and a poorer call that our 'management' have not stepped in to bring some dignity back to the place. The players by themselves are not the Club nor alone do their actions define the culture of this Club, it runs far deeper than a few individuals.

Agreed. There's appears to be disturbing inability for the key decision-makers at the club to make the hard decisions.

[FrediKanoute]

I don't believe it is. There was no fan outcry last year for Harbrow to be dropped when despite the fact he hadn't confirmed it we all knew he was already gone.
The simple fact was that we were playing finals so in the fans eyes Harbrow was a required player. This double standard is exactly why the fans should have no say in it.
If we were still battling for a finals position most would be treating Ward like they did with Harbrow. Most fans are only taking a far tougher stance on Ward because we aren't in the finals mix.

As for fans booing or discrediting their own players, I hear this most weeks when we lose.

I think its a legitimate double standard to have. If you simply take the perspective of what greater good is served by the decision then you can esily justify playing Harbrow and not playing Ward. In fact, it serves to illustrate just why you shouldn't play Ward.

The greater good served in playing Harbrow was that the club as a whole benefitted from his presence in the side becuase it increased our chances of making and winning a grand final.

What greater good is served by Ward playing? If anything playing him does actually harms the greater good, because it denies the oportunity of a player to perform to justify why he should be there next year. It denies the ability to get anoth game into a developing player. Most of all though it cheapens which should be a celebration of 3 wonderful careers.

[GVGjr]

I think its a legitimate double standard to have. If you simply take the perspective of what greater good is served by the decision then you can esily justify playing Harbrow and not playing Ward. In fact, it serves to illustrate just why you shouldn't play Ward.

The greater good served in playing Harbrow was that the club as a whole benefitted from his presence in the side becuase it increased our chances of making and winning a grand final.

What greater good is served by Ward playing? If anything playing him does actually harms the greater good, because it denies the oportunity of a player to perform to justify why he should be there next year. It denies the ability to get anoth game into a developing player. Most of all though it cheapens which should be a celebration of 3 wonderful careers.

I asked the question 12 months back if Harbrow should be played given he was very likely to go and he couldn't commit to the club. The response was typically along the lines of we are playing finals and he was in our best 22 so he should play. There was little to no emotion from people until after we were out of the finals and until he made his announcement. There was also very little calls to boo or to call him a traitor or Judas etc.
12 months later and Ward has apparently made his decision and he's apparently the worst thing in the world. Like Harbrow he's well and truly still in our best 22 but he doesn't have the luxury of pending finals. The fans have gone ballistic and all of a sudden one home and away game has all sort of implications to the future of the club and we can't miss the opportunity to 'develop' players. Apparently it's more than OK to lose the development opportunities when players we like retire but heaven help us if we lose that one chance for a player that makes a decision we don't like.

It's this sort of inconsistent approach that confirms to me that the fans aren't the right people to make the call. If we want to make a stance then lets have a hard and fast rule that says that any player that hasn't re-signed before the 1st of August doesn't get selected for the balance of the season. This needs to be done regardless of our ladder position and it makes it 100% clear cut. Can you live with that or do you want the flexibility to use the players to whatever suits our needs at the time?

I know people are upset but the same people demanding Ward should be dropped would actually be worse if he withdrew from a finals game to save himself. The guise of taking a development chance from someone else wouldn't in anyway be a consideration.

Basically people want the chance to use players in whatever manner suits them at the time and then carry on over the fact the players aren't as loyal as they should be.
We demand loyalty from the players but we are a bit loose with it ourselves when it suits.

[Doc26]

I asked the question 12 months back if Harbrow should be played given he was very likely to go and he couldn't commit to the club. The response was typically along the lines of we are playing finals and he was in our best 22 so he should play. There was little to no emotion from people until after we were out of the finals and until he made his announcement. There was also very little calls to boo or to call him a traitor or Judas etc.
12 months later and Ward has apparently made his decision and he's apparently the worst thing in the world. Like Harbrow he's well and truly still in our best 22 but he doesn't have the luxury of pending finals. The fans have gone ballistic and all of a sudden one home and away game has all sort of implications to the future of the club and we can't miss the opportunity to 'develop' players. Apparently it's more than OK to lose the development opportunities when players we like retire but heaven help us if we lose that one chance for a player that makes a decision we don't like.

It's this sort of inconsistent approach that confirms to me that the fans aren't the right people to make the call. If we want to make a stance then lets have a hard and fast rule that says that any player that hasn't re-signed before the 1st of August doesn't get selected for the balance of the season. This needs to be done regardless of our ladder position and it makes it 100% clear cut. Can you live with that or do you want the flexibility to use the players to whatever suits our needs at the time?

I know people are upset but the same people demanding Ward should be dropped would actually be worse if he withdrew from a finals game to save himself. The guise of taking a development chance from someone else wouldn't in anyway be a consideration.

Basically people want the chance to use players in whatever manner suits them at the time and then carry on over the fact the players aren't as loyal as they should be.
We demand loyalty from the players but we are a bit loose with it ourselves when it suits.

Maybe Callan should conjur up a story that he is leaving to be closer to his family. Most supporters appear to have bought into Harbrow's story and have given him a break for it. Joke.

GVGJr, the philosophical difference, which has been done to death, is that playing Harbrow was seen to benefit the Club in its finals aspiration, whilst playing Ward this week does what again, seeing off a mate ? I don't feel you are giving enough credence to the Club's supporters on this matter, that somehow our judgement is too clouded by our emotions.

[SonofScray]

FWIW, I was filthy on Harbrow given we'd plucked him from nowhere basically as a rookie and given him his shot. Seemed a real slap in the face to have him pack up and leave when he was really embraced by the fans, was clearly an important and required player and certainly would have got chances to develop and earn more with us.

Did boo him at the GC game and enjoyed seeing him struggle a bit without the quality around him.

[AndrewP6]

I think I'm gonna unleash soon.

[mjp]

Basically people want the chance to use players in whatever manner suits them at the time and then carry on over the fact the players aren't as loyal as they should be.
We demand loyalty from the players but we are a bit loose with it ourselves when it suits.

Could not agree MORE with this.

No outcry last year because we were desperate for success and Harbrow might help...if Ward's betrayal is "Now, not next year" then Harbrow's was in the finals last year, not whilst running around for GC...oh - hang on, sorry, that isn't right because playing in the finals was playing for the greater good.

Give me a break. Changing opinions based on the potential outcomes? Right is Right! He is playing for OUR club...lot's of rhetoric but the Harbrow situation was EXACTLY the same - EXACTLY - a 12-month ordeal followed by him leaving immediately after the last game - yet somehow the culture that permitted him to continue was correct whereas the same decision this year is wrong?

As for the 'players who haven't signed by August 1st' rule...nice initiative that. No Gia, no Boyd, no Cross -three loyal servants who the club wont commit too...but of course, they should just suck it up and sign on the dotted line and be grateful they are being paid anything to wear the tricolours. Imagine if those players were your kids/brothers/mates and you had watched them suffer through surgeries and pain and everything else only to be told 'Yeah, we know you are the skipper and reigning b&f and leading the comp in clearances etc' but you will be 30 soon and we really feel it is all coming to the end...imagine then what you would think.

[GVGjr]

GVGJr, the philosophical difference, which has been done to death, is that playing Harbrow was seen to benefit the Club in its finals aspiration, whilst playing Ward this week does what again, seeing off a mate ? I don't feel you are giving enough credence to the Club's supporters on this matter, that somehow our judgement is too clouded by our emotions, that we have gone ballistic, it is disrespectful.

Have you read some of the comments? I have even had to edit some posts from people I have never had to before.
From my perspective, if we want to develop leaders at the club then we have to have our leadership group make informed decisions. I'm not 100% convinced they have made the right choice in this instance but I still believe that the players that go onto the park have to be the ones that make that call.

[Maddog37]

Gee this is a passionate thread. This issue really is having a major influence on a lot of areas it seems.

[GVGjr]

Gee this is a passionate thread. This issue really is having a major influence on a lot of areas it seems.

Whilst one or two others and myself have vastly different views to the majority, there is no escaping that it is a passionate issue for people. I think we all get that.
Can you imagine how different the thread would be if Ward had done a Chris Grant and stuck with us? It would be great for the club and everybody else but a bloody boring read on WOOF ;)

[Remi Moses]

So as a club should we sign a 30 y/o for three years?
Maybe if he wanted 4 we should sign him for that!
I see some people's point, but honestly!

[Maddog37]

We all have the passion it seems.

The trick is how we use it in a constructive and positive way..........

[AndrewP6]

We all have the passion it seems.

The trick is how we use it in a constructive and positive way..........

Have I mentioned, I'm gonna unleash soon? ;)

WARNING: This may not be the most positive or constructive unleashing.

[Doc26]

,that we have gone ballistic, it is disrespectful.


Have you read some of the comments? I have even had to edit some posts from people I have never had to before.
From my perspective, if we want to develop leaders at the club then we have to have our leadership group make informed decisions. I'm not 100% convinced they have made the right choice in this instance but I still believe that the players that go onto the park have to be the ones that make that call.

My apologies, I had earlier removed your bolded reference above but you got in quick with the reply. I value your opinion, often as a voice of reason, and yes you're correct the commentary has reached some new heights, even having MJP going a bit overboard with capitalised repetitive adverbs whilst taking the counter (wrong :D) view.

In itself the emotion being displayed shouldn't in itself devalue the underlying opinion.


Whilst one or two others and myself have vastly different views to the majority, there is no escaping that it is a passionate issue for people. I think we all get that.

Actually, you're selling yourself a bit short, there's 14, enough to hire out your own corporate box ;)

Hey, I can nominate myself for a third person award.

[Remi Moses]

Difference with Harbrow is simple. Last season we played in the "moment" and were aspiring to win a flag, and if our season was shot IMO Harbrow should be out of the side. It's all about Aspiring for that ultimate goal and I for one was critical of Harbrow and his disingenuous departure.As for our loyal servants, unfortunately in this sport you can become "old " very quickly! If we gave every player the contract they'd like we'd have players playing until their 50!

[SonofScray]

Have I mentioned, I'm gonna unleash soon? ;)

WARNING: This may not be the most positive or constructive unleashing.

Do it. I am hoping to read some really over the top, irrationally angry, hate filled posts to out my mind at ease. Not so much towards Callan, but to the fact he will play at the players request and they don't seem to think there is anything wrong with that.

[1eyedog]

I asked the question 12 months back if Harbrow should be played given he was very likely to go and he couldn't commit to the club. The response was typically along the lines of we are playing finals and he was in our best 22 so he should play. There was little to no emotion from people until after we were out of the finals and until he made his announcement. There was also very little calls to boo or to call him a traitor or Judas etc.
12 months later and Ward has apparently made his decision and he's apparently the worst thing in the world. Like Harbrow he's well and truly still in our best 22 but he doesn't have the luxury of pending finals. The fans have gone ballistic and all of a sudden one home and away game has all sort of implications to the future of the club and we can't miss the opportunity to 'develop' players. Apparently it's more than OK to lose the development opportunities when players we like retire but heaven help us if we lose that one chance for a player that makes a decision we don't like.

It's this sort of inconsistent approach that confirms to me that the fans aren't the right people to make the call. If we want to make a stance then lets have a hard and fast rule that says that any player that hasn't re-signed before the 1st of August doesn't get selected for the balance of the season. This needs to be done regardless of our ladder position and it makes it 100% clear cut. Can you live with that or do you want the flexibility to use the players to whatever suits our needs at the time?

I know people are upset but the same people demanding Ward should be dropped would actually be worse if he withdrew from a finals game to save himself. The guise of taking a development chance from someone else wouldn't in anyway be a consideration.

Basically people want the chance to use players in whatever manner suits them at the time and then carry on over the fact the players aren't as loyal as they should be.
We demand loyalty from the players but we are a bit loose with it ourselves when it suits.

That's crap.

The majority of posters on this forum would be paid up members. They were paid up members last year and they will be paid up members next year. We reserve the right to comment on certain players because we put our money where our mouths are and we are an emotional lot at the kennel because we care about the club. We are not loose with our loyalty we are bloody disappointed with our footy club, and at times with certain players.

I ask you and all others, who on here will not support the Bulldogs next year because of this? It's not loyalty that is loose, it's fierce loyalty that is leading this charge.

I don't care that Ward is leaving, just don't play tomorrow and thanks or all the fish.

[FrediKanoute]

Could not agree MORE with this.

No outcry last year because we were desperate for success and Harbrow might help...if Ward's betrayal is "Now, not next year" then Harbrow's was in the finals last year, not whilst running around for GC...oh - hang on, sorry, that isn't right because playing in the finals was playing for the greater good.

Give me a break. Changing opinions based on the potential outcomes? Right is Right! He is playing for OUR club...lot's of rhetoric but the Harbrow situation was EXACTLY the same - EXACTLY - a 12-month ordeal followed by him leaving immediately after the last game - yet somehow the culture that permitted him to continue was correct whereas the same decision this year is wrong?

As for the 'players who haven't signed by August 1st' rule...nice initiative that. No Gia, no Boyd, no Cross -three loyal servants who the club wont commit too...but of course, they should just suck it up and sign on the dotted line and be grateful they are being paid anything to wear the tricolours. Imagine if those players were your kids/brothers/mates and you had watched them suffer through surgeries and pain and everything else only to be told 'Yeah, we know you are the skipper and reigning b&f and leading the comp in clearances etc' but you will be 30 soon and we really feel it is all coming to the end...imagine then what you would think.

MJP, I rarely disagree with what you post, but I will on this occaision, what is right is not right, its all in contexts. Taking the Ward situation. Ward leaving the WB is not right for the WB. It is however right for the GWS. From each parties different perspective the decision is either right or wrong.

In terms of playing Ward, as opposed to playing Harbrow, I think context is critical. What's so wrong with playing Ward as opposed to playing Harbrow is that the upside/greater good it serves is merely Ward's self interest, not the interests of the club. Playing Harbrow however met both the interests of the club and the individual, a congruence of objectives if you like. You can't simply apply a simplified rule and ignore the issue of context. Context is critical.

[Remi Moses]

That's crap.

The majority of posters on this forum would be paid up members. They were paid up members last year and they will be paid up members next year. We reserve the right to comment on certain players because we put our money where our mouths are and we are an emotional lot at the kennel because we care about the club. We are not loose with our loyalty we are bloody disappointed with our footy club, and at times with certain players.

I don't care that Ward is leaving, just don't play tomorrow and thanks or all the fish.

Mate, MJP and Gvgr are players posters. Apparently players should be played forever and get whatever contract they want. Members should be seen and not heard.
Banging on about "what about loyality to the players" is silly and short sighted.
We've been generous with players coming to the end. Should the club have offered extra years to Hudson , Aker? It's all about form and if Boyd is playing well he'd get another season

[Rocco Jones]

MJP, I rarely disagree with what you post, but I will on this occaision, what is right is not right, its all in contexts. Taking the Ward situation. Ward leaving the WB is not right for the WB. It is however right for the GWS. From each parties different perspective the decision is either right or wrong.

In terms of playing Ward, as opposed to playing Harbrow, I think context is critical. What's so wrong with playing Ward as opposed to playing Harbrow is that the upside/greater good it serves is merely Ward's self interest, not the interests of the club. Playing Harbrow however met both the interests of the club and the individual, a congruence of objectives if you like. You can't simply apply a simplified rule and ignore the issue of context. Context is critical.

Totally agree.

[1eyedog]

Could not agree MORE with this.

No outcry last year because we were desperate for success and Harbrow might help...if Ward's betrayal is "Now, not next year" then Harbrow's was in the finals last year, not whilst running around for GC...oh - hang on, sorry, that isn't right because playing in the finals was playing for the greater good.

Give me a break. Changing opinions based on the potential outcomes? Right is Right! He is playing for OUR club...lot's of rhetoric but the Harbrow situation was EXACTLY the same - EXACTLY - a 12-month ordeal followed by him leaving immediately after the last game - yet somehow the culture that permitted him to continue was correct whereas the same decision this year is wrong?

As for the 'players who haven't signed by August 1st' rule...nice initiative that. No Gia, no Boyd, no Cross -three loyal servants who the club wont commit too...but of course, they should just suck it up and sign on the dotted line and be grateful they are being paid anything to wear the tricolours. Imagine if those players were your kids/brothers/mates and you had watched them suffer through surgeries and pain and everything else only to be told 'Yeah, we know you are the skipper and reigning b&f and leading the comp in clearances etc' but you will be 30 soon and we really feel it is all coming to the end...imagine then what you would think.

We'll commit, just not to the length of the contract. Suck it up? These blokes are getting 400k a year to play the game they love. Surgeries and pain are part and parcel of the wage. Should we sign these three forever should we mjp? Where's the threshold?

[Grantysghost]

The difference between Ward and Harbrow is that we can all see that Ward is going to be an absolute star. Harbrow although good didn't have the same potential.
The players wanted Eade to coach on from memory, that was a bad decision also.

[1eyedog]

Mate, MJP and Gvgr are players posters. Apparently players should be played forever and get whatever contract they want. Members should be seen and not heard.
Banging on about "what about loyality to the players" is silly and short sighted.
We've been generous with players coming to the end. Should the club have offered extra years to Hudson , Aker? It's all about form and if Boyd is playing well he'd get another season

I think they are just concerned about the affect some of our opinions will have on the players that call in here. That's understandable, but it is a public forum.

[GVGjr]

I think they are just concerned about the affect some of our opinions will have on the players that call in here. That's understandable, but it is a public forum.

I have no concern for any player who logs on for a read.

[Ghost Dog]

It's this sort of inconsistent approach that confirms to me that the fans aren't the right people to make the call.

Ward was set to be a future captain. Harbrow was not. I don't see how it's inconsistent in the proper context.
Of course its unfair for the masses to choose who goes on the field. But we are not happy about it, its a rare event,
and the MC have to be prepared for what comes. Personally, It will be fine. the pain of losing him will be replaced soon enough by the joy of a new kid.

Ah the passion of woofers. Love it.:D

[chef]

I think I'm gonna unleash soon.


Have I mentioned, I'm gonna unleash soon? ;)

WARNING: This may not be the most positive or constructive unleashing.

I'm waiting.

It better be good Andrew:D.

[chef]

I think they are just concerned about the affect some of our opinions will have on the players that call in here. That's understandable, but it is a public forum.

I don't think it would affect them at all, can you imagine some of the shit that's yelled at them from over the boundary line. We are pretty tame compared to that.

[mjp]

Playing Harbrow however met both the interests of the club and the individual, a congruence of objectives if you like. You can't simply apply a simplified rule and ignore the issue of context. Context is critical.

And this is what bugs me...I just don't see how everyone taking the passionate 'You are with us or against us' approach can add the caveat 'Unless it suits us in the short term'. It cheapens the whole argument...if you are as passionate about this issue as you say, then were was the Harbrow outcry.

As for all the 'local boy' stuff I keep hearing, what has that got to do with it? Murphy is from Gippsland and embraced the place from day 1, Shaggy is from Carlisle in Perth and seems to be on everyone's wedding party - I know guys who grew up in the heart of Footscray who are covered in Collingwood tattoos. Is Murphy less a Bulldog because he came from 'somewhere else'? Then why is Ward more of a Bulldog?

Am I a players poster? I take the players side on heaps of contract type stuff because of the way they are so often kicked to the curb totally unprepared for 'life'. Everyone says 'If I had the opportunity, I would play for free' and that is great...but it really is a job for these guys. I love reading Raw Toast's stuff (and it was good to see Pembleton back and posting in his usual style) but the reality is we as supporters care more about the results than the players do. I see it in my coaching as well - the players are 'over' the result an hour after the match and discussing plans for the night ahead/golf on their day off etc' - it is supporters and support staff who bleed. You might say this is sad and it never used to be this way, but last I checked the 'Mad Monday' tradition went back decades...players from all the clubs who had unsuccessful years hitting the town on the same day.

I was told on another thread that comparing Ward to Hall was comical (actually, comcal - but I think it was supposed to be comical) and to me Ward is more Bulldog than Hall. In the prelim last year - with the season (and the era?) on the line, Ward was our best player, sticking his head over the footy and setting an example with his attack on the ball. Hall - the saviour who came to deliver us a premiership was beaten and barely made an impact. I guess I am the only one who thinks this way, but to me Hall is a Sydney premiership captain and all the 'I will be remembered as a Bulldog' stuff looks nice on a greeting card but was incredibly disrespectful to all the Sydney fans. As supporters, did we recognise this? Nope - it was all 'He should have been one of us from the start' type rhetoric.

I have been at games where Jade Rawlings was verbally abused by 'US' beyond belief. Supporters? I read all the 'only offer him a year' stuff about Cross and Gia. Supporters? The savage criticism of individuals on here after a loss. Supporters? And don't worry, I have heard the 'I am a paid up member and I can say what I want' story a million times. I am a paid up member as well. I want to win as well. But the players are people before they are players and when you start referring to them as 'SCUM' because they change companies (to them, it is a job) then it is going too far.

Be unhappy with the decision (as I am). If you don't think he should play this weekend, I can understand that. But I hate the fact that we are abusing a 21-year old kid, I hate the fact that we think it is ok to play Harbrow in the same situation because just maybe he might have helped us win (then many dismissed his contribution in the off-season, suggesting that Wood would just step into his role and do it better) and I hate the fact that people are saying Boyd and Cross and Gia should just suck it up and get what they are given after all the enjoyment they have given us. To me, all of these things are inter-related. The club is bigger than the individual - but it isn't always right.

[mjp]

We'll commit, just not to the length of the contract. Suck it up? These blokes are getting 400k a year to play the game they love. Surgeries and pain are part and parcel of the wage. Should we sign these three forever should we mjp? Where's the threshold?

I don't know where the threshold is...but the suggestion was that if a player hasn't re-signed by August 1st they should not be selected. Based on this rule, none of these players would have played for the past 5 weeks.

Surgeries and pain are part and parcel are they? So is delisting following surgeries (just ask Mitch Hahn) that may have impacted on your ability to compete in the short-medium term. The game they love? That was lost when they were 15 years old - they are playing because it is what they do - not because they love to play.

Of course we shouldn't sign everyone 'forever' but suggesting that someone is disloyal because they don't accept the first contract offer they are handed is ridiculous.

[The Underdog]

I answered yes.
He's in our best 22.
He'll help us win today.
It won't have any impact on round 1 next year.

[choconmientay]

Yep and precisely the reason football (soccer) has disengaged from the community to such an extent. I watch both. The difference between the two is the passion I feel for Bulldogs players compared to Spurs players.

Spurs have just closed the transfer window and retained a really good midfielder in Luca Modric.....if he had gone I would have been disappointed, but not as disappointed as if Bale had left. Why, because Spurs have nurtured Bale since her arrived as a 17 year old. I've seen him grow into a fabulous player. I don't have that connection with the majority of the Spurs squad who habg around for 3 or 4 seasons and ship off. Its the reason I wont put a spurs players name on my top.......

Is this really what we want from our AFL teams? Believe me I love watching Spurs, but I have none of the connection with the players that I do with the Doggies.

Finally, I can't accept that you would allow a guy who has left the tribe to play a game and support him onlyto cal him Judas next year. The betrayal is now, not next year.

Does what we want from the ALF really count in reality? We don't want to give away players. We want loyalty. We want better, fairer draw every season .... It only matter what the AFL and Andrew Demetriou want the game to be! And I think they want it to be big and they are striving to make it the world game hence all the push for all the new franchises and the push to introduce the game to other countries. They will compromise core values and the integrity of the game to get there. Casualties along the way will be acceptable for them.

Regarding the Judas thing. I exaggerated a lot when I wrote it. As for now, I don't hold any grudges against Callan, I doubt that I will held any against him next season or ever :)

[EasternWest]

I answered yes.
He's in our best 22.
He'll help us win today.
It won't have any impact on round 1 next year.

My thoughts exactly.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Absolutely no way should he play. NO WAY.

[SonofScray]

I'll be terribly disappointed if he isn't a late withdrawal.

[Ghost Dog]

I answered yes.
He's in our best 22.
He'll help us win today.
It won't have any impact on round 1 next year.

Minimal impact. But nobody can say it won't have any impact.
Every drop fills a bucket.

[Rocco Jones]

Just a few things
- Once again I don't blame anyone who leaves for money. I don't think it makes you a bad person, I am just annoyed by the 'as if you wouldn't do it' assumption. You're not bad for leaving for money but not EVERYONE would. Believe it or not, not everyone is that into money (sad most people really cannot believe that)

- mjp has mentioned the treatment of players and I agree with him in one aspect. I hate it when fans treate players as if they were all robots. Trade Cross! give Boyd only 2 years despite him being our captain and at least one of our best players, add Gia to that as well, how West and Grat were retired, how scapegoats are treated and wanting any of our workhorses automatically retired once their body may no longer be up for it.

mjp you seem to assume that the fans who want Ward gone now are also the ones who treate great servants like Boxer from Animal Farm. I do not want Ward to play but I am also disappointed whenever our club treates a loyal servant like they are just another spot on the squad. I understand loyalty is a two way street and I want it from both sides.

[Mofra]

We seem to have very little pride.
That is a very unfair assessment on anyone who doesn't want Ward dropped/hung, drawn and quartered.

I'm all for civility and opposing opinions, but when this sort of stuff is bandied about it's about as applicable as the "accepting medocrity" line people try to bandy about.

I'm not happy Ward's going, but anyone who thinks we're (a) on a winner by acting like a sulking child or (b) thinks Ward made an easy decision...

It's one selection in one dead rubber and if our club culture is so weak that a single minor selection in a non-event against what practically amounts to a combined WAFL side is the be all and end all of where we stand, our culture must be pretty fragile.

[Mofra]

And this is what bugs me...I just don't see how everyone taking the passionate 'You are with us or against us' approach can add the caveat 'Unless it suits us in the short term'. It cheapens the whole argument...if you are as passionate about this issue as you say, then were was the Harbrow outcry.

As for all the 'local boy' stuff I keep hearing, what has that got to do with it? Murphy is from Gippsland and embraced the place from day 1, Shaggy is from Carlisle in Perth and seems to be on everyone's wedding party - I know guys who grew up in the heart of Footscray who are covered in Collingwood tattoos. Is Murphy less a Bulldog because he came from 'somewhere else'? Then why is Ward more of a Bulldog?

Am I a players poster? I take the players side on heaps of contract type stuff because of the way they are so often kicked to the curb totally unprepared for 'life'. Everyone says 'If I had the opportunity, I would play for free' and that is great...but it really is a job for these guys. I love reading Raw Toast's stuff (and it was good to see Pembleton back and posting in his usual style) but the reality is we as supporters care more about the results than the players do. I see it in my coaching as well - the players are 'over' the result an hour after the match and discussing plans for the night ahead/golf on their day off etc' - it is supporters and support staff who bleed. You might say this is sad and it never used to be this way, but last I checked the 'Mad Monday' tradition went back decades...players from all the clubs who had unsuccessful years hitting the town on the same day.

I was told on another thread that comparing Ward to Hall was comical (actually, comcal - but I think it was supposed to be comical) and to me Ward is more Bulldog than Hall. In the prelim last year - with the season (and the era?) on the line, Ward was our best player, sticking his head over the footy and setting an example with his attack on the ball. Hall - the saviour who came to deliver us a premiership was beaten and barely made an impact. I guess I am the only one who thinks this way, but to me Hall is a Sydney premiership captain and all the 'I will be remembered as a Bulldog' stuff looks nice on a greeting card but was incredibly disrespectful to all the Sydney fans. As supporters, did we recognise this? Nope - it was all 'He should have been one of us from the start' type rhetoric.

I have been at games where Jade Rawlings was verbally abused by 'US' beyond belief. Supporters? I read all the 'only offer him a year' stuff about Cross and Gia. Supporters? The savage criticism of individuals on here after a loss. Supporters? And don't worry, I have heard the 'I am a paid up member and I can say what I want' story a million times. I am a paid up member as well. I want to win as well. But the players are people before they are players and when you start referring to them as 'SCUM' because they change companies (to them, it is a job) then it is going too far.

Be unhappy with the decision (as I am). If you don't think he should play this weekend, I can understand that. But I hate the fact that we are abusing a 21-year old kid, I hate the fact that we think it is ok to play Harbrow in the same situation because just maybe he might have helped us win (then many dismissed his contribution in the off-season, suggesting that Wood would just step into his role and do it better) and I hate the fact that people are saying Boyd and Cross and Gia should just suck it up and get what they are given after all the enjoyment they have given us. To me, all of these things are inter-related. The club is bigger than the individual - but it isn't always right.
Well summed up

[Rocco Jones]

That is a very unfair assessment on anyone who doesn't want Ward dropped/hung, drawn and quartered.

I'm all for civility and opposing opinions, but when this sort of stuff is bandied about it's about as applicable as the "accepting medocrity" line people try to bandy about.

I'm not happy Ward's going, but anyone who thinks we're (a) on a winner by acting like a sulking child or (b) thinks Ward made an easy decision...

It's one selection in one dead rubber and if our club culture is so weak that a single minor selection in a non-event against what practically amounts to a combined WAFL side is the be all and end all of where we stand, our culture must be pretty fragile.

Great assumptions there.

Love the wanabe sophiscate footy fan thing who automatically discard any anger from footy fans.

I am not angry at Ward, I don't even want to boo or insult him today, I just don't want him playing for my club. Isn't that fair enough?

The dead rubber issue makes it actually worse IMO as there is nothing there for the actual club.

[Dancin' Douggy]

There is no way in the world he would be playing for Collingwood.
We look like 'nice' pushovers.
Weak and easily pushed around.
Callan is no longer a Bulldog player.
He shouldn't play.

[SonofScray]

Rocco - sulking like a child. There is no room for emotion of any sort in football, this is the modern game after all. Numbers, stats and dollar are what get you ahead.

Seriously though, I'm with you. Sophisticate footy fans, playing the numbers game and denouncing subjectivity belong in Essendon colours, not ours. If thats all it boils down to we may as well just shut up shop.

[G-Mo77]

There is no way in the world he would be playing for Collingwood.


Or Melbourne or Fremantle. :D

Says a lot about our club doesn't it.

They put more value in sending someone off the ground who has left the club to play for a plastic team for more $$ than to someone who is fighting for a contract for 2012. Well played Western Bulldogs. :rolleyes:

[Mofra]

Great assumptions there.

Love the wanabe sophiscate footy fan thing who automatically discard any anger from footy fans.
Not trying to start an arugument Rocco, I just disagree with you on this topic and was lookign for more constructive debate.

I don't think objecting to being told that as a supporter I have "little pride" is automatically disregarding anger from supporters, nor should I not have the right of reply to such an assumption.


I am not angry at Ward, I don't even want to boo or insult him today, I just don't want him playing for my club. Isn't that fair enough?
Of course it's fair enough, it's your opinion and one shared by many - I don't think him playing is as big an issue as many here are making it out to be and am willing to share my reasons why. This website would be effing useless if we all agreed with each other.

[Rocco Jones]

Rocco - sulking like a child. There is no room for emotion of any sort in football, this is the modern game after all. Numbers, stats and dollar are what get you ahead.

Seriously though, I'm with you. Sophisticate footy fans, playing the numbers game and denouncing subjectivity belong in Essendon colours, not ours. If thats all it boils down to we may as well just shut up shop.

Look I hate the angry guys who label fans as 'accepting medocrity' as much as the wanabe sophiscates. They annoy me heaps and I definitely become a 'wanabe sophiscate' when reading the crap on facebook and BigFooty. I have long said too many of our fans confuse aspiration with desperation. We are definitely building a big, Richmond like super angry group of fans who are cynical about whatever the club does.

On the flipside though, I think our constant failure also means our loyal, hardcore base are extremely tolerant.

So with trying to be like Raw Toast with his astute footy fan psychological analysis' and such, I think we have an especially large cynical/Richmond like group as well as fans who tolerate anything because of their love of the club. I don't agree with either but truth to told, at the end of the day I am with the love and tolerance group. Too positive > Too negative.

[Rocco Jones]

Not trying to start an arugument Rocco, I just disagree with you on this topic and was lookign for more constructive debate.

I don't think objecting to being told that as a supporter I have "little pride" is automatically disregarding anger from supporters, nor should I not have the right of reply to such an assumption.

That's fair enough Mofra. I was wrong there. Sorry.

[Mofra]

That's fair enough Mofra. I was wrong there. Sorry.
Miscommunication of opinion Rocco - no apology necessary, considering I poorly worded a reply earlier.

Play on.

[Ghost Dog]

The cumulative effect of losing one player after another is a factor that needs to be taken into account by those who say there is a double standard.

Maybe if we had lost Ward last year, and were to lose Harbrow this year, people would feel much the same as the do now.

[Rocco Jones]

Phil Davis, Power, Palmer, Russell, Clark, Ward, McIntosh and Scully are the 8 names I hear most linked with GWS. Only 1 of them is playing this round.

[GVGjr]

Phil Davis, Power, Palmer, Russell, Clark, Ward, McIntosh and Scully are the 8 names I hear most linked with GWS. Only 1 of them is playing this round.

One has confirmed and isn't playing. One hasn't yet been acknowledged by his club as confirmed and the others are good speculations.

It's a great observation though and we might have gotten it wrong. Time will tell.

[1eyedog]

Well summed up

Yep quality post

[Remi Moses]

One has confirmed and isn't playing. One hasn't yet been acknowledged by his club as confirmed and the others are good speculations.

It's a great observation though and we might have gotten it wrong. Time will tell.

Smell the Roses. Honestly do you think the earth is still flat GV?

[GVGjr]

Smell the Roses. Honestly do you think the earth is still flat GV?
Not everyone gets upset the way you do Remi. I see both sides of the argument and I have a view contrary to the majority and of course yourself. I do work on the assumption that the majority of players are honest though. Some might even have good reasons for leaving.

[cinder]

Am I blind or is Ward not out for the warm up?

[cinder]

Hmm just had a haircut. Can afford one now

[GVGjr]

Nah Ward is there. Right in the middle

[Sockeye Salmon]

Gutted that he is playing.

Get out.

[lemmon]

Gutted that he is playing.

Get out.

This, such a weak decision

[cinder]

I still don't think supporters should boo him. We're better than that

[DragzLS1]

Let him play and cheer him on! Next year u can boo him! When he realizes how mad it is at the giants he will say to himself "I should have never left"
Goodluck to him hope he has a ripper game

[LostDoggy]

Let him play and cheer him on! Next year u can boo him! When he realizes how mad it is at the giants he will say to himself "I should have never left"
Goodluck to him hope he has a ripper game

Massive overs currently by GWS. He's rising but at the moment he's C+ grade. :)

[Maddog37]

Phil Davis, Power, Palmer, Russell, Clark, Ward, McIntosh and Scully are the 8 names I hear most linked with GWS. Only 1 of them is playing this round.

Russell is on my tv right now too........

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Russell is on my tv right now too........

And Macintosh is also in North's selected team for tomorrow's game?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Let him play and cheer him on! Next year u can boo him! When he realizes how mad it is at the giants he will say to himself "I should have never left"
Goodluck to him hope he has a ripper game

What the hell is wrong with you? Cheer him on? Hope he has a ripper game? Why? Why? Why?

We are just so lame to cop this and clap him and wish him all the best.
He never should have played.
People were saying Josh Hill should never wear the guernsey again after a pathetic effort on the mark. But we let a guy who is already part of another team wear the guernsey?

The club has been so pissweak and cuddly about all this I'm bewildered.

Even if you can empathise with him and his decision he still should have been dropped today.

If Callan Ward turns around and stays I will shovel out the apologies by the truck load, but to hear bulldog supporters today clapping Ward LOUDER than other players made me think to myself we'll never ever, ever win a flag.

[Pickenitup]

I think the club as acted like this by playing him when we pretty much know he has signed because the club want him back in a few years.

[Remi Moses]

Believe in the tooth fairy as Well ^^:rolleyes:
Fairytale thinking

[DragzLS1]

I meant if he does something good for us today y boo him especially that he's seeing off Barry and Hudson so if he tried his best it's like it's for respect for them on there last game. I get what everyOne is saying and why he shouldn't play but why would we want him to leave on a sour note? Barra has only been with us for 2 years and he calls himself a dog for life because his time here has been the best! I don't see why ward can't come back in a few years time when if my predictions are right (2015) we will be top of the table :) we can all hope can't we? I hope he realizes how bad of a mistake he made next year and I want the first thing that x

[DragzLS1]

That comes in his head to be the bulldogs fans cheering him on! That would burn even mOre then booing him off wouldn't it ;)

[Doc26]

On the topic of booing Ward today, yes I heard a couple of brief boos early that appeared to be checked very quickly.

Don't read anything into what will no doubt be a typical media beat up regarding booing or jeering of Ward. It was so insignificant from where I sat that it shouldn't warrant any mention.

The cynic in me says that the 2 distant boos were probably initiated by the likes of Ralph and Maher just to go with the story.

Or then maybe I was just surrounded by wannabe sophiscates that drowned the evil doers out with their silence.

[AndrewP6]

On the topic of booing Ward today, yes I heard a couple of brief boos early that appeared to be checked very quickly.

Don't read anything into what will no doubt be a typical media beat up regarding booing or jeering of Ward. It was so insignificant from where I sat that it shouldn't warrant any mention.

The cynic in me says that the 2 distant boos were probably initiated by the likes of Ralph and Maher just to go with the story.

Or then maybe I was just surrounded by wannabe sophiscates that drowned the evil doers out with their silence.

From my seat, it was pretty clear...and at times coming from the opposite side of the ground.

[AndrewP6]

why would we want him to leave on a sour note?

If he's leaving for more money, I couldn't care less what sort of note he leaves on. You sell out, you lose my respect.

[SonofScray]

I fired a few barbs Callan's way, mostly around the fact he shouldn't have been out there. No foul language, or anything out of order. Did boo and suggest he might forget himself and kick the ball the other way at one stage. Nothing over the top I would've thought and quite a few flogs near me wanted my head, actually personally attacked me. They gave up when I didn't bite and carried on, but also actively cheered him louder than they did any other player.

That just seems strange behaviour for a Club's fans, to me anyway. Good banter none the less but strange all the same.

[chef]

I think the club as acted like this by playing him when we pretty much know he has signed because the club want him back in a few years.

If he comes back to Melbourne he's going to choose the club that throws the most money at him, not us.

This leopard has shown his spots.

[Ghost Dog]

Wasn't at the game. Did he get much stick?

Got a haircut eh? thought he should brush up for his new employer.

[Remi Moses]

What the hell is wrong with you? Cheer him on? Hope he has a ripper game? Why? Why? Why?

We are just so lame to cop this and clap him and wish him all the best.
He never should have played.
People were saying Josh Hill should never wear the guernsey again after a pathetic effort on the mark. But we let a guy who is already part of another team wear the guernsey?

The club has been so pissweak and cuddly about all this I'm bewildered.

Even if you can empathise with him and his decision he still should have been dropped today.

If Callan Ward turns around and stays I will shovel out the apologies by the truck load, but to hear bulldog supporters today clapping Ward LOUDER than other players made me think to myself we'll never ever, ever win a flag.
Agree, just reinforced the fact that our fans are star worshipers. Some not all, who gives a stuff if people booed! It's an emotive pasttime and bloke just given us all the two fingered salute. Maybe the next mercenary we should organize a ticket tape parade, and hugs all round!!! Spare Me

[AndrewP6]

Wasn't at the game. Did he get much stick?

Got a haircut eh? thought he should brush up for his new employer.

Or realised he wouldn't survive a week in Blacktown with "the 'do"..

Opinions have varied, from my seat the jeers were sporadic, but fairly impassioned.

[hujsh]

While I wasn't wrapped that Cal played Saturday, it may be better for us if Ward doesn't leave the club disgruntled at how he was treated. If there's a few GWS players who want to play in Melbourne having Ward say how good the club was may help us out in getting the player to consider us.

I remember someone posting something along these lines a while back about free agency which is essentially what we're dealing with here.

[Ghost Dog]

While I wasn't wrapped that Cal played Saturday, it may be better for us if Ward doesn't leave the club disgruntled at how he was treated. If there's a few GWS players who want to play in Melbourne having Ward say how good the club was may help us out in getting the player to consider us.

I remember someone posting something along these lines a while back about free agency which is essentially what we're dealing with here.

Actually, this is a good point I had not thought about.

Clubs need to do better in building up the hype around players who stick by their clubs.

More Griff love!

[1eyedog]

While I wasn't wrapped that Cal played Saturday, it may be better for us if Ward doesn't leave the club disgruntled at how he was treated. If there's a few GWS players who want to play in Melbourne having Ward say how good the club was may help us out in getting the player to consider us.

I remember someone posting something along these lines a while back about free agency which is essentially what we're dealing with here.

It will all (if it hasn't already) come down to who can pay the most in third party payments around the (supposed) watchdog that is the AFL.

[azabob]

Can we re-title this to should Cal Ward be allowed to attend the B&F?