Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

[bornadog]

An important point. With the exception of the player Morris, they are all malfunctioning due to component over use and design faults. A decision needs to be made immediately about player Giansiracusa. He may need to be deactivated.

The coach has already indicated he wants Gia to play on next year and mentor the younger players.

[AndrewP6]

The beautiful thing about it though he's likely to be our most dangerous one next year as well, failing that, the second most dangerous and he's going to cop more crap from the sidelines than he's copped in years when he wasn't in that position.

Funny how things work, and I'm almost horrified by some of the things that are likely to be said about him amongst the crowd next year.

Agreed. I'm not a fan of the "he's slowed down, so let's flick him and fast track the new blokes" approach... Especially when it's a long serving stalwart we're talking about.

[jeemak]

Agreed. I'm not a fan of the "he's slowed down, so let's flick him and fast track the new blokes" approach... Especially when it's a long serving stalwart we're talking about.

I think you'll find the same people that want to ditch Gia are the same guys (in the crowd) that abuse our lesser experienced players when they don't produce!

If anything, Gia should be commended for putting his hand up as the main target of "supporter" vitriole for another year as well as topping the scoring for one more year!

[LostDoggy]

An important point. With the exception of the player Morris, they are all malfunctioning due to component over use and design faults. A decision needs to be made immediately about player Giansiracusa. He may need to be deactivated.

Obviously the other posters are not familiar with the Cybermen of Dr Who fame.

I got a chuckle out of it anyway..... :)

[Bulldog4life]

I think you'll find the same people that want to ditch Gia are the same guys (in the crowd) that abuse our lesser experienced players when they don't produce!

If anything, Gia should be commended for putting his hand up as the main target of "supporter" vitriole for another year as well as topping the scoring for one more year!

To me supporters that bag our players are the worse type of supporters that I experience at our games. Worse than the opposition supporters. I have had run ins with a few of them.

[Maddog37]

I think you'll find the same people that want to ditch Gia are the same guys (in the crowd) that abuse our lesser experienced players when they don't produce!

If anything, Gia should be commended for putting his hand up as the main target of "supporter" vitriole for another year as well as topping the scoring for one more year!

Not true Jeemak. I never, ever abuse our players and I am in the retire Gia camp.

He is a great player and very skilled but his motor is broken and when it does run it cannot function at a reasonable speed anymore.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Not true Jeemak. I never, ever abuse our players and I am in the retire Gia camp.

He is a great player and very skilled but his motor is broken and when it does run it cannot function at a reasonable speed anymore.
Gia has probably reached his use by date in the same way as Gilbee and Hargrave. A pity that the MC were not able to negotiate him staying on in a mentoring/ teaching role to the younger players.

[Mofra]

Gia has probably reached his use by date in the same way as Gilbee and Hargrave. A pity that the MC were not able to negotiate him staying on in a mentoring/ teaching role to the younger players.
I thought the one year on base salary was a mentoring type deal, not dissimilar to Hahn's rookie year/Williamstown coaching role?

I'd be surprised if Dickson doesn't win our goalkicking award next year - Gia can't play through injury anymore.

[jeemak]

I think you'll find the same people that want to ditch Gia are the same guys (in the crowd) that abuse our lesser experienced players when they don't produce!

If anything, Gia should be commended for putting his hand up as the main target of "supporter" vitriole for another year as well as topping the scoring for one more year!


To me supporters that bag our players are the worse type of supporters that I experience at our games. Worse than the opposition supporters. I have had run ins with a few of them.


Not true Jeemak. I never, ever abuse our players and I am in the retire Gia camp.

He is a great player and very skilled but his motor is broken and when it does run it cannot function at a reasonable speed anymore.

To clarify, I don't have any issues with those saying Gia has passed his use by date and should retire. There's plenty of arguments to be made for that.

I was solely referring to the baggers in the crowd who have always thought he should have been turfed, is no good, is soft etc. in my post.

[Cyberdoggie]

I've been critical of Gia in the past but that has been when we were challenging for a flag. Now we are rebuilding and have a huge number of kids we need those senior players more than we think. Good leadership is crucial these next couple of years.

[bornadog]

Update on Troy Menzel - source Herald Sun:


A FAMILY history of serious injuries could lead to draft prospect Troy Menzel plummeting down this year's order as clubs debate whether he is worth the risk of a first-round selection.

The younger brother of Geelong's Daniel Menzel has been regarded as a top-five pick on talent but is no certainty to be taken in the top 30 after having LARS surgery as a 16-year-old and breaking down again on Sunday.

[LostDoggy]

Update on Troy Menzel - source Herald Sun:

You wonder how his body would cope with the extra stress of AFL level footy?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Will be very interesting to see where he lands.

[LostDoggy]

Will be very interesting to see where he lands.

Definitely. I guess clubs will do thier due dilligence and check him out thoroughly before committing. Seems to have huge potential.

I'm starting to get excited about the draft!

[Sockeye Salmon]

To clarify, I don't have any issues with those saying Gia has passed his use by date and should retire. There's plenty of arguments to be made for that.

I was solely referring to the baggers in the crowd who have always thought he should have been turfed, is no good, is soft etc. in my post.

I never understood those abusing Gia (or Higgins or Eagle). Surely the abuse should have been directed at the coach for selecting them?

Hell, if I got selected to play, I'd bloody play, too. All players are what they are, it's up to the coach to select them or not.

[immortalmike]

I think Gia is well worth keeping on our list for another year as a leader/mentor. Seems much more an off-field leader than Boyd and that is something we seem to be crying out for.

[azabob]

I think Gia is well worth keeping on our list for another year as a leader/mentor. Seems much more an off-field leader than Boyd and that is something we seem to be crying out for.

What have you observed that brings you to this conclusion?

[bornadog]

What have you observed that brings you to this conclusion?

Media interviews especially as he is a good speaker,

[azabob]

Media interviews especially as he is a good speaker,

Ah, ok, I didn't take Mike's comment as referring to media interviews. Makes sense if that is what he is getting at.

[bornadog]

Ah, ok, I didn't take Mike's comment as referring to media interviews. Makes sense if that is what he is getting at.

Not just media, but the way he conducts himself off the field, he is a real leader and in my opinion he should have been captain, or Bob Murphy. Don't get me wrong, Boyd is a great on field leader, and shows by example at training, but he lacks the public persona.

[immortalmike]

What have you observed that brings you to this conclusion?

Yeah pretty much what BAD's getting at, especially with his work in the media. But also, he is great at explaining to the young blokes their positioning and is always there for a pat on the head or a bit of reassurance.

Moreover I've been a huge fan of Gia's leadership ever since I heard an interview directly after the 09 prelim where he was audibly breaking down crying but still held it together long enough to give us supporters a thankyou and some encouragement for the next year. That really stuck with me, along with some footage I saw of Gia coaching where he really seemed to know his stuff.

Don't get me wrong Boydy is a great lead by example kind of guy but we need as many quality leaders as possible through the initial stages of our rebuild, lest we end up like Melbourne.

[azabob]

Thanks BAD and Mike. I also rate Gia and wouldve been very comfortable with him bring captain the last few seasons.

[bulldogsman]

Meanwhile, the Western Bulldogs have entered the race for Gold Coast defender Josh Toy. Toy, 20, is believed to be meeting Dogs chiefs within days.

The running half-back wants to move to a Melbourne club after a frustrating first two seasons up north, playing 13 games.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/department-of-trades/kangaroo-tall-cameron-pedersen-on-radar-to-bolster-stocks-at-magpies-camp/story-fn69a32t-1226477604742

[bornadog]

Meanwhile, the Western Bulldogs have entered the race for Gold Coast defender Josh Toy. Toy, 20, is believed to be meeting Dogs chiefs within days.

The running half-back wants to move to a Melbourne club after a frustrating first two seasons up north, playing 13 games.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/department-of-trades/kangaroo-tall-cameron-pedersen-on-radar-to-bolster-stocks-at-magpies-camp/story-fn69a32t-1226477604742

Anyone know much about him?

His profile:

Josh Toy
#20 Gold Coast Suns
Age: 20yr 5mth Games: 13 Born: April 18, 1992
Height: 185cm Weight: 87kg Position: Defender

2011 was a trying first season for highly regarded young defender Josh Toy. Despite a strong start to the season, he was soon pushed back to the reserves.

Toy reads the play well extremely off half-back, and has a thumping right boot.

The highly talented youngster will benefit from another year of senior football as he fights to earn a regular spot, however Toy’s all-round defensive poise, leadership qualities, strong marking, and powerful tackling will hold him in good stead as his career progresses.

Draft history: 2010 17-year-old access selection (Gold Coast).

[G-Mo77]

He was very highly ranked when GC took him as a 17 year old.

He's a half back and apparently can kick the pill 60+. Not sure on were he kicks it though. :o

That's all I know about him.

[Mofra]

It would be interesting to determine his value - is he a late developer or just someone who was overrated by all and sundry leading up to his selection?

[bulldogsman]

Anyone know much about him?

Played the "quarterback" role a lot of the time as a junior. Very good kick and took a lot of marks off opposition kicks.

From the little I've seen of him lately, he appears to lack intensity and can barely get a touch. No doubt he has the talent, it just appears he's not working hard enough. I hope we don't pay too much for him.

[Mofra]

Played the "quarterback" role a lot of them time as a junior. Very good kick and took a lot of marks off opposition kicks.

From the little I've seen of him lately, he appears to lack intensity and can barely get a touch. No doubt he has the talent, it just appears he's not working hard enough. I hope we don't pay much for him.
Interetsing, considering B-Mac's mantra.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I always had the impression he couldn't run out of sight. Worse tank than Veszpremi.

[Mantis]

It would be interesting to determine his value - is he a late developer or just someone who was overrated by all and sundry leading up to his selection?

Early developer - was physically developed early on and had that edge over the opposition in the junior ranks


I always had the impression he couldn't run out of sight. Worse tank than Veszpremi.

I get that impression too.

I would hope that we wouldn't give away too much to get him if we go down this path.

[LostDoggy]

Meanwhile, the Western Bulldogs have entered the race for Gold Coast defender Josh Toy. Toy, 20, is believed to be meeting Dogs chiefs within days.

The running half-back wants to move to a Melbourne club after a frustrating first two seasons up north, playing 13 games.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/department-of-trades/kangaroo-tall-cameron-pedersen-on-radar-to-bolster-stocks-at-magpies-camp/story-fn69a32t-1226477604742

No, please say it aint so.

Dud.

[LostDoggy]

No, please say it aint so.

Dud.

Really, is he that bad?

[always right]

I have a bad feeling about this one....I reckon we'll pay overs. I've seen very little in Toy that fills me with confidence. He's not even a regular with the bottom side.

[bulldogsman]

Really, is he that bad?

Yeah, I wouldn't go near him. Either he's not working anywhere near hard enough or his tank doesn't allow him to. I don't think he's had any excuses (long term injuries, home sickness) either.

I get the impression from GC that he's close to being delisted.

[SlimPickens]

I have a bad feeling about this one....I reckon we'll pay overs. I've seen very little in Toy that fills me with confidence. He's not even a regular with the bottom side.

Agree with this he is nearly 21 years old and hasn't had an impact at all at AFL level. Not overly interested particularly if GC play hard ball.

[Greystache]

Yeah, I wouldn't go near him. Either he's not working anywhere near hard enough or his tank doesn't allow him to. I don't think he's had any excuses (long term injuries, home sickness) either.

I get the impression from GC that he's close to being delisted.

I wouldn't have thought there'd be a huge demand for him, surely if we're interested we could request him to do a VO2 max test at VUT to ascertain if it's workrate of physiology.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If we got him for next to nothing, sure.

Agree with the opinions above though. From what I've seen, he doesn't have a tank and although he's a long kick I wouldn't call him a great kick.

The comparison to Vez is a pretty damn good one. Skills on the training track look good, but under pressure he bombs it long.

[Remi Moses]

Should be a Danger warning when someone was recruited by Scot Clayton.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I have a bad feeling about this one....I reckon we'll pay overs. I've seen very little in Toy that fills me with confidence. He's not even a regular with the bottom side.

When are we going to start targeting players who have proven themselves at senior AFL level like the stronger clubs in Hawthorn, Sydney Swans and Collingwood have done?
We continue to draft players like Moles Djeekura and Veszpremi that struggle. Our current list is very mediocre and needs a radical overhaul. You rarely if ever hear of the WB targeting recognized players under free agency. I worry about our prospects for 2013 and beyond.

[ledge]

When are we going to start targeting players who have proven themselves at senior AFL level like the stronger clubs in Hawthorn, Sydney Swans and Collingwood have done?
We continue to draft players like Moles Djeekura and Veszpremi that struggle. Our current list is very mediocre and needs a radical overhaul. You rarely if ever hear of the WB targeting recognized players under free agency. I worry about our prospects for 2013 and beyond.

You fail to look at the year they were recruited and who we recruited last year under bmac

[DOG GOD]

Oh god no not Toy. Please someone get on the phone to the dogs and tell them to stay away from him. I completely agree with everything said above. Seems like the dogs are desperate for a Gilbee replacement.

[Dog54]

Hey toy could pretend to be Adam Cooney he looks like him at least!

[Throughandthrough]

Is Andy Otten at the Crows interested? Struggling to get a match v Sam Shaw and Talia, only hope may be Rurren being old and slow. Has been pretty good in the SANFL as a key defender.

[bornadog]

Is Andy Otten at the Crows interested? Struggling to get a match v Sam Shaw and Talia, only hope may be Rurren being old and slow. Has been pretty good in the SANFL as a key defender.

We will see how good he is on Saturday night.

[LostDoggy]

You fail to look at the year they were recruited and who we recruited last year under bmac

Please explain?

[ledge]

Please explain?

Well this coach only took over this year and hasn't recruited old recycled players so to say we are continuing to do it is wrong since the coach has arrived he has also said he won't recruit other clubs rejects

[Throughandthrough]

Well this coach only took over this year and hasn't recruited old recycled players so to say we are continuing to do it is wrong since the coach has arrived he has also said he won't recruit other clubs rejects

Did he really say that?

So he hasnt read moneyball then?

Has worked ok for Sydney.....

[Maddog37]

What about Austin?

[bornadog]

Well this coach only took over this year and hasn't recruited old recycled players so to say we are continuing to do it is wrong since the coach has arrived he has also said he won't recruit other clubs rejects


Did he really say that?

So he hasnt read moneyball then?

Has worked ok for Sydney.....

The coach said if they target players from other clubs they will be in the younger bracket rather than the older bracket. Not sure what the cut off age is.

[bornadog]

What about Austin?

Austin, Dickson, mature age recruits.

[LostDoggy]

Well this coach only took over this year and hasn't recruited old recycled players so to say we are continuing to do it is wrong since the coach has arrived he has also said he won't recruit other clubs rejects

The question was:

When are we going to start targeting players who have proven themselves at senior AFL level like the stronger clubs in Hawthorn, Sydney Swans and Collingwood have done?

And I think it's a fair question, especially when the clubs named just happen to be three of the last four standing in 2012.

[bornadog]

Josh Toy to decide future next week after meeting with Western Bulldogs (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/josh-toy-to-decide-future-next-week-after-meeting-with-western-bulldogs/story-e6frf9jf-1226479319109)

GOLD Coast defender Josh Toy will decide next week whether to continue his career in Melbourne next season.

The highly-skilled backman met Western Bulldogs officials yesterday about a possible shift to Whitten Oval.

Toy's ball distribution from half back would be a welcome addition to the Dogs following the retirement of lethal flanker Lindsay Gilbee this season.

However, St Kilda, Carlton and Hawthorn are also believed to be keen on the 20-year-old.

Collingwood coach Nathan Buckley, who was an assistant coach when Toy was in the AIS-AFL program in 2009, also has a strong relationship with the right-footer.

The former under-18 All-Australian has had a frustrating first two seasons with the Suns, playing only 13 games, but could remain in Queensland.

After eight games in his first season, Toy made five appearances this year.

Gold Coast has tabled a one-year contract for Toy and will drive a hard bargain for the former Calder Cannons player should he opt to leave.

Toy's manager, James Pitcher from Strategic Management, said the playmaking defender would make a call on his future in a week.

"He might still stay up there. He has come home to discuss things with us and talk to his mum," Pitcher said.

"He hasn't made any decisions yet, but he is committed to making the most of himself and his AFL career.

"He wants to play senior footy and I certainly think he has the ability to do that."

Toy was considered one of the most outstanding under-age talents and would probably have been a top five pick in the national draft had the Suns not chosen him as one of their 17-year-old access selections in 2010.

The 185cm backman has a booming right foot but has been told he needs to improve his endurance and defensive aptitude.

After eight games in his first season, Toy made only five AFL appearances last year and failed to string together more than two consecutive games.

He averaged only three and half possessions per game last season.

[Go_Dogs]

Thanks for posting that BAD.

It paints Toy as a defender who has no endurance or defensive aptitude and someone who we'd use as our key playmaker yet he only averaged 3.5 touches a game? If we have to give up anything for him, I'd be very reluctant.

[GVGjr]

Thanks for posting that BAD.

It paints Toy as a defender who has no endurance or defensive aptitude and someone who we'd use as our key playmaker yet he only averaged 3.5 touches a game? If we have to give up anything for him, I'd be very reluctant.

That's pretty much how he played as a junior. Very good when he is out by himself.

[Greystache]

I didn't notice him this year, does anyone know if he was the sub a few times. The most kicks he got in a game was 3, and twice he recorded 0. That's hardly inspiring.

[Go_Dogs]

That's pretty much how he played as a junior. Very good when he is out by himself.

If he has no endurance though, he isn't going to be able to get into space to get any easy ball to use his kicking skills. It sounds like Vez all over again to me.



I didn't notice him this year, does anyone know if he was the sub a few times. The most kicks he got in a game was 3, and twice he recorded 0. That's hardly inspiring.

No idea if he was sub, but the numbers aren't flash. A defender who cannot defend needs to be getting it 20-30 times a game and using it well otherwise what is the point.

[immortalmike]

No idea if he was sub, but the numbers aren't flash. A defender who cannot defend needs to be getting it 20-30 times a game and using it well otherwise what is the point.

I disagree. A defender who can't defend shouldn't be playing AFL football.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I thought we would have a realistic chance of picking him up as a free agent if the Suns delisted him (especially as they must reduce their list) but if they want to play funny buggers I'd get him to nominate for the PSD.

[Go_Dogs]

I disagree. A defender who can't defend shouldn't be playing AFL football.

I know what you mean, but realistically, the best run/create defenders aren't usually stars at playing a lock down role too. Agree that they must have at least some competency defending, but it doesn't need to be the strongest area of their game.

[immortalmike]

I know what you mean, but realistically, the best run/create defenders aren't usually stars at playing a lock down role too. Agree that they must have at least some competency defending, but it doesn't need to be the strongest area of their game.

Maybe I was spoiled watching Gilbee and Murph in their primes but I wouldn't be targeting someone who hasn't got the capacity to be both a good one on one defender and the ability to play the sheepdog role. But I get what you mean...

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I thought we would have a realistic chance of picking him up as a free agent if the Suns delisted him (especially as they must reduce their list) but if they want to play funny buggers I'd get him to nominate for the PSD.

This.

I wouldn't want to give up very much at all.

[immortalmike]

You mean like when we play Christian Howard there?

Exactly, why trade for someone who hasn't even got his tank. And at least Howie has shown he can get the footy.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Apparently we are interested in Carlton's Casboult. A few posters have mentioned Barrett announced earlier today we put a 2 year deal in front of him.

Take it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I don't like the idea of trading for anyone because you either overpay or you get recycled list cloggers.

[Sedat]

Apparently we are interested in Carlton's Casboult. A few posters have mentioned Barrett announced earlier today we put a 2 year deal in front of him.
Well he can't kick so he will fit right in at the kennel

[Sockeye Salmon]

Apparently we are interested in Carlton's Casboult. A few posters have mentioned Barrett announced earlier today we put a 2 year deal in front of him.

Take it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I don't like the idea of trading for anyone because you either overpay or you get recycled list cloggers.

If we are chasing Casboult then that's another sign that we might be trading away Campbell

[azabob]

If we are chasing Casboult then that's another sign that we might be trading away Campbell

How can rookies (Casbiult & Campbell) be traded to a specific club? I thought it would have to be via the draft.

[Sockeye Salmon]

How can rookies (Casbiult & Campbell) be traded to a specific club? I thought it would have to be via the draft.

They changed that rule last year. Essendon traded Josh Jenkins to Adelaide and Hawthorn traded Sierakowski to North.

[azabob]

They changed that rule last year. Essendon traded Josh Jenkins to Adelaide and Hawthorn traded Sierakowski to North.

So they did.

Do you rate Campbell?

[Remi Moses]

Well he can't kick so he will fit right in at the kennel

He kicks like Jimmy Manson!
Pleaseee just bring our own in and not bring Average Cast offs in!!

[Sockeye Salmon]

So they did.

Do you rate Campbell?

He's OK. Not the savior some think but he might have a future. If he helps get us Martin I could live with it.

[GVGjr]

I thought we would have a realistic chance of picking him up as a free agent if the Suns delisted him (especially as they must reduce their list) but if they want to play funny buggers I'd get him to nominate for the PSD.

It's not a bad idea, risky but worth exploring.

He would be worth looking at if we think we can turn him into a hard worker. Perhaps we could have him spend the pre-season training with Liam Picken. I wouldn't spend a lot to get him but he is worth considering.

[divvydan]

From another forum, this was posted and subsequently backed up by someone who has a very good record on information.
Not sure if it's been said or not yet but Toy has a heart condition and will need to be seriously assessed, whoever picks him up, im guessing that would cause the endurance issues

[KT31]

From another forum, this was posted and subsequently backed up by someone who has a very good record on information.

Brings back memories of The Eagle.

[EasternWest]

Brings back memories of The Eagle.

Tiny bit harsh KT. Eagle wasn't our hardest nut (understatement I know) but he could run all day.

At least knew what it took to be an AFL footballer.

[divvydan]

Tiny bit harsh KT. Eagle wasn't our hardest nut (understatement I know) but he could run all day.

At least knew what it took to be an AFL footballer.

He's referring to the heart condition Eagleton had early in his career. I believe it was Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome.

[EasternWest]

He's referring to the heart condition Eagleton had early in his career. I believe it was Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome.

Well that went right over my head.

Thanks DD.

[KT31]

He's referring to the heart condition Eagleton had early in his career. I believe it was Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome.

Thanks DD.

[Raw Toast]

I've been critical of Gia in the past but that has been when we were challenging for a flag. Now we are rebuilding and have a huge number of kids we need those senior players more than we think. Good leadership is crucial these next couple of years.

Agreed.

FWIW I was at the club for some work on Friday (VU students getting tours of the Whiten Oval as part of their Football Studies unit :D) and saw Toy arrive and then spend some time with Jason McCartney and then BMac and the rest of them.

Dale Morris was working away with various weightlifting, as was Brent Montgomery. Needless to say, the music playlist was not featuring a heap of current songs!

[Throughandthrough]

Chris Knights has quit the Crows

[ledge]

Chris Knights has quit the Crows

Did the Crows still want him?

[AndrewP6]

Did the Crows still want him?

They didn't really say...

http://www.afc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/4417/newsid/148507/default.aspx

[azabob]

Chris Knights has quit the Crows

His good was very good, but injuries haven't helped. Not sure he is the type we need. Don't get me wrong he would be a wonderful addition and would be in our best 22, but is he too similar to our other two medium forwards in Higgins and Dickson?

[Go_Dogs]

His good was very good, but injuries haven't helped. Not sure he is the type we need. Don't get me wrong he would be a wonderful addition and would be in our best 22, but is he too similar to our other two medium forwards in Higgins and Dickson?

I think he's slightly different to those guys, but may struggle to play in the forward line if they are as you suggest.

That being said, if he can get himself back into peak fitness and form, he'd be worth a look as we need run and players who can kick goals. I wonder if he could get fit enough to play predominately as a running midfielder. May need to improve his defensive efforts and contested ball a bit perhaps to play that role too, not sure if he could.

I wouldn't want to pay a lot for his services either, so if there are a few interested parties as there's rumoured to be, we might not chase him at all.

[Throughandthrough]

Knights as a reputation as being a bit soft. So that rules him out from us I would say.

Ps Salopek has quit the power today, speaking of soft

[bulldogsman]

Any interest in Ben Jacobs?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/teams/port-adelaides-jacobs-future-cloudy/story-e6frf9mo-1226481333351

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I just want to be on page 69.

[G-Mo77]

Any interest in Ben Jacobs?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/teams/port-adelaides-jacobs-future-cloudy/story-e6frf9mo-1226481333351

Good engine from what I've heard. He's an inside mid as well which is probably a too many cooks scenario. Not sure on how his disposal rates.

[bornadog]

Knights as a reputation as being a bit soft. So that rules him out from us I would say.

Looks like Richmond are interested in him.

[Throughandthrough]

Any interest in Ben Jacobs?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/teams/port-adelaides-jacobs-future-cloudy/story-e6frf9mo-1226481333351

I saw him absolutely dominate a state under 18 game 2 or 3 years ago (about 50 possessions) but dont think he has done a lot since. Does he need to muscle up?

Would look at him at the right price, for sure.

Not surprised he didnt enjoy his time at the Power, was treated like cr2p by some of his supposed "team mates" while on the Oval sometimes.

[ledge]

[QUOTE=Throughandthrough;292019]I saw him absolutely dominate a state under 18 game 2 or 3 years ago (about 50 possessions) but dont think he has done a lot since. Does he need to muscle up?

Would look at him at the right price, for sure.

Not surprised he didnt enjoy his time at the Power, was treated like cr2p by some of his supposed "team mates" while on the Oval sometimes.

Any reasons why ?

[Mofra]

Not surprised he didnt enjoy his time at the Power, was treated like cr2p by some of his supposed "team mates" while on the Oval sometimes.
Interesting, do you mind elaborating?

[Rocco Jones]

Good engine from what I've heard. He's an inside mid as well which is probably a too many cooks scenario. Not sure on how his disposal rates.

Being an inside mid is an asset not a liablity. It's a lack of speed and/or skill that's a liability. You can never have too many inside mids with speed and/or skill.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Being an inside mid is an asset not a liablity. It's a lack of speed and/or skill that's a liability. You can never have too many inside mids with speed and/or skill.

Is Jacobs quick?

[Rocco Jones]

Is Jacobs quick?

No idea mate. Wasn't so much talking about Jacobs more so the growing view from our posters that we shouldn't go after inside mids.

[China Dog]

I would like to see us get involved in trading this year for some solid young guys, who have been in the AFL system for a couple of years - guys like Caddy, Toy, Jacobs, Rounds, Bell or Casboult. They all have developed bodies and could slot into our side immediately.

We should try to trade out some of our under-performers like Sherman, Vezpremi or Grant to get some of these young guys to our club.

[azabob]

I would like to see us get involved in trading this year for some solid young guys, who have been in the AFL system for a couple of years - guys like Caddy, Toy, Jacobs, Rounds, Bell or Casboult. They all have developed bodies and could slot into our side immediately.

We should try to trade out some of our under-performers like Sherman, Vezpremi or Grant to get some of these young guys to our club.

Grant, Vez and Sherman have out performed all of the players you listed bar Caddy. If you are referring to Bell from Carlton both he and Casbault can't kick and the rest I wouldn't bother chasing.

[G-Mo77]

Being an inside mid is an asset not a liablity. It's a lack of speed and/or skill that's a liability. You can never have too many inside mids with speed and/or skill.

Fair call and I do agree with that assessment. I don't know enough about Jacobs to know if he's a quick player or not. I've only seen him a handful of times but I remember a Port supporter telling me how good his tank was. I think it was when I was inquiring for SC reasons. :o

[bulldogsman]

I saw him absolutely dominate a state under 18 game 2 or 3 years ago (about 50 possessions) but dont think he has done a lot since. Does he need to muscle up?

Would look at him at the right price, for sure.

Not surprised he didnt enjoy his time at the Power, was treated like cr2p by some of his supposed "team mates" while on the Oval sometimes.

Maybe they are giving him a bit of tough love? As a junior he went ball hunting far too much and had no defensive side to his game. I imagine the coaches ripped into him a fair bit and rightly so. It will take a while to coach that out of him and I'm guessing that's why he's struggled so far. It reminds me a lot of Bachar Houli actually and I think he's a similar sort of player in some ways (a bit different and possibly better). Half back/midfielder that uses the ball ok, his kicking does have some hurt factor but doesn't always hit it's mark. Very good overhead mark. Reads the play really well also and has the ability to intercept the play. Has a bit of pace, won't break any lines with it though.

[Throughandthrough]

Never seemed to get any on field support from
The leaders at the club. Watch some of the matches from two years ago when the power were at their worst and he was playing his very first games.

Maybe tough love but he always seemed to draw the short straw
When opposition players were dominating and also left to kick in when the other teams were smashing them. Better and more experienced players were leaving a trail of smoke they were running away and hiding so
Quickly

[Go_Dogs]

I saw him absolutely dominate a state under 18 game 2 or 3 years ago (about 50 possessions) but dont think he has done a lot since. Does he need to muscle up?

Would look at him at the right price, for sure.

Not surprised he didnt enjoy his time at the Power, was treated like cr2p by some of his supposed "team mates" while on the Oval sometimes.

I was there that day, Norwood oval. I think he had close to 40 touches (it was actually 47 upon checking!) but he was very tidy by foot and had good speed.

I'd be all over Jacobs, big time. I see him as a backline player rather than a midfielder.

[Mofra]

I was there that day, Norwood oval. I think he had close to 40 touches (it was actually 47 upon checking!) but he was very tidy by foot and had good speed.

I'd be all over Jacobs, big time. I see him as a backline player rather than a midfielder.
There was a fair bit of hype pre-season about Jacobs (although I think half of it was by the Supercoach types looking for a bargain).

What would we have to trade for him though, knowing 5 & 6 are either off the table or part of a GWS Mini Draft offer? I don't think our second rounder will cut it, nor would Port be very interested in any of our fringe types.

[bulldogsman]

There was a fair bit of hype pre-season about Jacobs (although I think half of it was by the Supercoach types looking for a bargain).

What would we have to trade for him though, knowing 5 & 6 are either off the table or part of a GWS Mini Draft offer? I don't think our second rounder will cut it, nor would Port be very interested in any of our fringe types.

I dunno, pretty sure he's out of contract and if he nominates us I think pick 27 could do it. Maybe a downgrade of our later picks if need be.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Is Jacobs any different to Howard?

[Mofra]

Is Jacobs any different to Howard?
Intensity & concentration wise, yes although I haven't seen enough of him play to be definiative.
I'm still not sold on Howard though.

[bornadog]

I wouldn't mind having a go for Wellingham, still to sign with Pies.

[GVGjr]

I wouldn't mind having a go for Wellingham, still to sign with Pies.

We would need to trade for him and I think the Pies would want a lot for him.
Do we have any players we could realistically trade?

[Go_Dogs]

Is Jacobs any different to Howard?

Well, he's a proven elite U/18 level talent to start with.

I think they're quite different players and don't see any reason why we couldn't ultimately fit both into the side.

[azabob]

I wouldn't mind having a go for Wellingham, still to sign with Pies.

Im not so sure, his disposal is very iffy.

[Pickenitup]

Looks Like We Are Very Inyerested in Koby Stevens according to sports news first

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Looks Like We Are Very Inyerested in Koby Stevens according to sports news first

From a personal perspective, I would be delighted to secure Stevens.

From a team perspective, I am not sure he's what we need/where he fits in.

[jeemak]

We would need to trade for him and I think the Pies would want a lot for him.
Do we have any players we could realistically trade?

I think the Pies might look at bolstering ruck stocks, so Roughead might seem attractive to them.

Would Roughead and a second or third rounder get it done?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think the Pies might look at bolstering ruck stocks, so Roughead might seem attractive to them.

Would Roughead and a second or third rounder get it done?

I rate Wellingham, but would you really trade Roughead for him?

That would be a huge blow to us IMO.

[bulldogsman]

Is Jacobs any different to Howard?

Jacobs is much more of a natural footballer (footy smart) and is far more superior in the air. They do have some similarities though.

I don't think I would be prepared to pay our 2nd round pick for him, I've never really been a fan of his. I don't see him being anything more then a solid footballer.

[bulldogsman]

I think the Pies might look at bolstering ruck stocks, so Roughead might seem attractive to them.

Would Roughead and a second or third rounder get it done?

I think that would be a disaster.

Maybe for Sherman I'd do it, but I kinda agree with azabob. Not sure he's what we need.

[azabob]

I think the Pies might look at bolstering ruck stocks, so Roughead might seem attractive to them.

Would Roughead and a second or third rounder get it done?


I rate Wellingham, but would you really trade Roughead for him?

That would be a huge blow to us IMO.

Agree, I wouldn't even really be entertaining him to be honest.

[jeemak]

I rate Wellingham, but would you really trade Roughead for him?

That would be a huge blow to us IMO.



Jacobs is much more of a natural footballer (footy smart) and is far more superior in the air. They do have some similarities though.

I don't think I would be prepared to pay our 2nd round pick for him, I've never really been a fan of his. I don't see him being anything more then a solid footballer.


I think that would be a disaster.

Maybe for Sherman I'd do it, but I kinda agree with azabob. Not sure he's what we need.


Agree, I wouldn't even really be entertaining him to be honest.

I think we need to be realistic with what we would have to give up to get him across, and with that we need to try and match what we potentially have a surplus of and what the Pies don't.

My personal view is that Roughead will be a vital cog in our side as a ruckman, though we also have Cordy and Campbell developing while Will moves through the latter stages of his career, so he might be deemed as expendable if some quality was going to come on to the list as a result.

The Pies are going to want someone of quality for Wellingham, and Roughead fills a need for them. I don't necessarily rate Wellingham, though I'm realistic about what it will take to get him.

Putting Sherman on the table is plain foolishness. Why would the Pies go for him?

[azabob]

The Pies are going to want someone of quality for Wellingham, and Roughead fills a need for them. I don't necessarily rate Wellingham, though I'm realistic about what it will take to get him.



Fair points, I honestly don't think we should chase him, I can't see him helping us progress up the ladder.

[jeemak]

Fair points, I honestly don't think we should chase him, I can't see him helping us progress up the ladder.

Not by himself, no. But he'd be handy as part of the midfield mix.

We're not going to be able to find perfect footballers to play through our midfield, as much as we'd like to of course, even with high draft picks. Our high draft picks are all going to have areas in which they need to improve, and if they become capable of contributing 200 games of senior football then we'll need to be pretty happy with that. Wellingham has attributes our side is short on, and plenty of those attributes are most likely to be sufficient to see him contribute to any side he plays in for many years to come.

I do believe he would assist our club in moving up the ladder as part of a collective. I'm just concerned we'll end up losing a player like Roughead for him, and possibly more.

[bulldogsman]

I think we need to be realistic with what we would have to give up to get him across, and with that we need to try and match what we potentially have a surplus of and what the Pies don't.

My personal view is that Roughead will be a vital cog in our side as a ruckman, though we also have Cordy and Campbell developing while Will moves through the latter stages of his career, so he might be deemed as expendable if some quality was going to come on to the list as a result.

The Pies are going to want someone of quality for Wellingham, and Roughead fills a need for them. I don't necessarily rate Wellingham, though I'm realistic about what it will take to get him.

Putting Sherman on the table is plain foolishness. Why would the Pies go for him?

I know my suggestion was a bit silly, fair enough. I just wonder what great need Wellingham fills for us and Is that trade worth it for us? I don't think so. He's fast and pretty hard at it but his skills won't help our already poor delivery.

Don't get me wrong, he will improve our side, but at what cost.

[jeemak]

Well being fast and hard at it (as well as being able to find the ball) is a good place to start. I've not noticed his skills being particularly bad, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that. As a late bloomer I think he could potentially still improve as well.

If there are other players out there that could be traded in with potentially six or seven years of senior football ahead of them, that fill an age gap in our list who have pace, excellent skills, are hard at it and can find the ball then great. In the time between now and when clubs finally decide to start giving players with all of those attributes up I'll be prepared to compromise on particular attributes of players to bring them in and change the dynamics of our list.

Anyway, the trade I suggested wasn't necessarily one I'd condone being completed, rather I just think Collingwood are likely to ask a lot for him.

[bulldogsman]

I understand those types of players (skillfull, pacey etc.) don't grow on trees. I'd rather just look to the draft rather then trade in a player like Wellingham for the moment.

[jeemak]

That's fair enough.

I suppose I'm concerned about us not having many of them who are ready to go on our list between now and when any potential draftees become ready to play senior football.

We have a very strong core of inside players now, though this will be depleted somewhat with Boyd and Cross deteriorating over the next couple of years meaning if players like Wallis, Smith and Liberatore don't develop like they look like developing or becoming injured we're not going to be as dominant in that area. This will result in the current weaknesses in our list structure becoming more exposed.

[Bulldog Joe]

I think the Pies might look at bolstering ruck stocks, so Roughead might seem attractive to them.

Would Roughead and a second or third rounder get it done?

Can't see McCartney allowing Roughead to be traded. He has identified him as our long term replacement for Brian Lake.

[The Doctor]

Greg Denham on SEN suggested we are looking at any offers for Sherman

[Bulldog Joe]

Greg Denham on SEN suggested we are looking at any offers for Sherman

That is hardly a revelation.

It has been apparent since early season that Sherman does not fit with McCartney in charge.

I still expect hin to show he can play if he finds a home where they encourage him to play to his strengths.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Anyone concerned that Will has yet to sign a new deal? Last I heard a deal sounded imminent, but his name showing on lists of those players still eligible for unrestricted free agency.

[Desipura]

Greg Denham on SEN suggested we are looking at any offers for Sherman

Chris knight's in a direct swap?
I'm thinking Essendon may look at him. Don't know who they would trade for him, Dyson?
I would prefer we get a pick for him, if we cannot get a 3rd round or a player that addresses our needs, we retain him.

[KT31]

Anyone concerned that Will has yet to sign a new deal? Last I heard a deal sounded imminent, but his name showing on lists of those players still eligible for unrestricted free agency.

Hope the club gets this done ASAP, a handshake agreement ain't worth a pinch of salt.
Look at NRL's Beu Ryan from Tigers to Sharks.

[soupman]

Chris knight's in a direct swap?
I'm thinking Essendon may look at him. Don't know who they would trade for him, Dyson?
I would prefer we get a pick for him, if we cannot get a 3rd round or a player that addresses our needs, we retain him.

I disagree. We aim to get a good pick, and if more than one club is interested Hopefully we can start the worlds lamest bidding war, but in the interests of both club and player, We let him go even if the offer is below his real worth. Why? If he's no use to us then why retain him? It only means we delay his delisting/trade one more year. Unless Macca legitimately sees him as a potential part of his plans there is no point hanging onto him for the sake of the difference between pick 52 and pick 72.

[Sedat]

I'm thinking Essendon may look at him. Don't know who they would trade for him, Dyson?
That would be the biggest non-trade since the Paul Sharkey straight swap for Shannon Gibson between Hawthorn and Collingwood about 15-odd years ago. The only winner out of that trade was Officeworks because it was a waste of fax paper.

[Throughandthrough]

Ex power and current crows player brad symes was cut by the crows this week a few days after winning the Margarey

[Desipura]

Totally agree, I don't want Dyson. I hope BMac agrees.

[Mofra]

That would be the biggest non-trade since the Paul Sharkey straight swap for Shannon Gibson between Hawthorn and Collingwood about 15-odd years ago. The only winner out of that trade was Officeworks because it was a waste of fax paper.
Yep - and we'd probably have to pay part of his salary too, swapping him for another fringe type.
Sherman from Brissie was definately a trade to forget

[G-Mo77]

Yep - and we'd probably have to pay part of his salary too, swapping him for another fringe type.
Sherman from Brissie was definately a trade to forget

That's the way I see it panning out as well. Paid overs for Sherman, big time and we'll have to partially pay his contract out. I'd happily take a 4th round pick for him if another team is willing to offer that much.

[LostDoggy]

According to this article, he's signed.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/148704/default.aspx

Sorry I can't see it.
Says he is a unrestricted free agent.

[whythelongface]

Sorry I can't see it.
Says he is a unrestricted free agent.

I can't see anything either where it says he has re-signed.

[bulldogsman]

Sorry I can't see it.
Says he is a unrestricted free agent.


I can't see anything either where it says he has re-signed.

Sorry, big fail. I have no idea what I was looking at :o

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2012/09/27/stevens-asks-west-coast-for-a-trade/)

VICTORIAN clubs have been placed on alert after West Coast midfielder Koby Stevens confirmed he wants a trade out of Perth.

Stevens is expected to move to the Western Bulldogs.

The Bulldogs have been strongly interested in the tough 22-year-old for several months, as Stevens failed to impress Eagles coach John Worsfold for a call-up with consistent performances with beaten WAFL grand finalists East Fremantle.

Essendon and Melbourne also have keen interest in Stevens, who informed Eagles management he wanted to pursue his career elsewhere.

West Coast contracts manager Craig Vozzo said the club was extremely disappointed at Stevens' decision.

“Unfortunately, Koby has informed us that he would be seeking to be traded to another club in pursuit of further opportunities,” Vozzo said.

“That’s extremely disappointing because we saw him as an important player in a developing midfield.

“Koby is a young player with some terrific attributes and we had hoped he would remain with our club to be a part of what we believe we are building towards.

"Having said that, we understand and respect Koby’s decision, and will work to ensure a suitable outcome for all parties.”

Stevens was taken with selection 23 in the 2009 draft and has played 11 games in his three seasons at the club.

In other changes, forward Ryan Neates and rookies Michael Mascoulis, Anton Hamp and Callum Papertalk have all been delisted.

Koby Stevens
#14 West Coast Eagles
Age: 21yr 3mth Games: 11 Born: June 18, 1991
Height: 187cm Weight: 83kg Position: Midfield
Last Drafted: Round 2, Pick #23 2009 National Draft

[The Underdog]

Link (http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2012/09/27/stevens-asks-west-coast-for-a-trade/)

VICTORIAN clubs have been placed on alert after West Coast midfielder Koby Stevens confirmed he wants a trade out of Perth.

Stevens is expected to move to the Western Bulldogs.



Woohoo, more scraps from the table...

[LostDoggy]

I know nothing about except this stuff I got from wiki
Stevens plays primarily as a midfielder, but also has the versatility to play off a half forward flank. He has a strong, athletic build for a young player and his contested ball winning skills, attack on the ball, overhead marking, consistency, work-rate and leadership skills have all been described as strengths of his.
I was hoping he was quick and/or have good disposal but seems to be another contested ball winner.

[Mofra]

One WCE fan believes he would be a solid HFFer at AFL level and is a good mark for his size.
His wiki page makes him sound like Daniel Cross.

[LostDoggy]

[URL="http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2012/09/27In other changes, forward Ryan Neates and rookies Michael Mascoulis, Anton Hamp and Callum Papertalk have all been delisted.

Koby Stevens
#14 West Coast Eagles
Age: 21yr 3mth Games: 11 Born: June 18, 1991
Height: 187cm Weight: 83kg Position: Midfield
Last Drafted: Round 2, Pick #23 2009 National Draft

I bet the journos had a picnic with this bloke's name?

A delisted Rookie from West coast is looking to move to Melbourne - but it's only Papertalk:D

[Raw Toast]

Yep - and we'd probably have to pay part of his salary too, swapping him for another fringe type.
Sherman from Brissie was definately a trade to forget

Looking back, when it appeared like we could get Walker or Sherman, we seem to have made the wrong decision!

[LostDoggy]

Looking back, when it appeared like we could get Walker or Sherman, we seem to have made the wrong decision!

I was reminded by a Swans fan last night that Sydney wanted Sherman.
For all his faults, I think they would have done better with him.

[bornadog]

I was reminded by a Swans fan last night that Sydney wanted Sherman.
For all his faults, I think they would have done better with him.

Harbrow pick down the drain. I get this feeling the coach not the player has failed

[LongWait]

Harbrow pick down the drain. I get this feeling the coach not the player has failed

You blame McCartney for Sherman's performance this year?

What about Sherman's failure to vote in the top 12 players in the 2011 Sutton Medal - that was McCartney's fault as well, or was it the coach of the time?

[LostDoggy]

I thought Sherman was injured or suspended for much 2011.
Still did a role when playing seniors and kicked a few goals.
We over payed for him and he was never very good but his 2011 was way better than his 2012.
Pretty obvious the current coach is not a fan of the type of player he is so saying the coach failed him isn't a far stretch.
The great teacher and taskmaster now doesn't him as a pupil.

[Greystache]

Harbrow pick down the drain. I get this feeling the coach not the player has failed

How many years will Sherman fail to deliver before it becomes his fault?

His best year was 2006 as a 19 year old and he hasn't improved since. He's had 4 coaches and none of them have managed to get him to perform, including all time great Leigh Matthews.

[Maddog37]

Sherman for Stevens. Works for everyone.

[G-Mo77]

How many years will Sherman fail to deliver before it becomes his fault?

His best year was 2006 as a 19 year old and he hasn't improved since. He's had 4 coaches and none of them have managed to get him to perform, including all time great Leigh Matthews.

Exactly. He's the kind of player that puts it all together when things are going well and also the kind of player who throws in the towel when it gets to tough. He's mentally piss weak and $&#$+%*%(%(!!!!

It'll be one of the few highlights of the season to see him gone.

[LongWait]

I thought Sherman was injured or suspended for much 2011.
Still did a role when playing seniors and kicked a few goals.
We over payed for him and he was never very good but his 2011 was way better than his 2012.
Pretty obvious the current coach is not a fan of the type of player he is so saying the coach failed him isn't a far stretch.
The great teacher and taskmaster now doesn't him as a pupil.

In 2011 Sherman was ranked 10th in games played (14) and averaged 15 disposals per game (10th in the club). Sherman was about 10th in all of the rankings for the season, except the Sutton Medal, where he finished 15th. Stellar year.

[bornadog]

You blame McCartney for Sherman's performance this year?

What about Sherman's failure to vote in the top 12 players in the 2011 Sutton Medal - that was McCartney's fault as well, or was it the coach of the time?

Played 14 games in 2011, how do you expect him to poll in a B&F? For your info until he was suspended last year he was our leader for scoring assists and 9th overall in the AFL to that point.

I know many on this forum don't rate him and that's fine. As for the coach he has it in for him as he can't crack in, but blind freddy can see he is an outside running player and the coach don't like that type.

[AndrewP6]

In 2011 Sherman was ranked 10th in games played (14) and averaged 15 disposals per game (10th in the club). Sherman was about 10th in all of the rankings for the season, except the Sutton Medal, where he finished 15th. Stellar year.

No ones suggested he had a stellar year...however I think the point that McCartney has dealt with him wrongly has some merit. Yes, he has now had several coaches, but IIRC He wanted to leave Brisbane, not the other way round. It's not like they got rid of him.

[jeemak]

Exactly. He's the kind of player that puts it all together when things are going well and also the kind of player who throws in the towel when it gets to tough. He's mentally piss weak and $&#$+%*%(%(!!!!

It'll be one of the few highlights of the season to see him gone.

Have you had personal experiences with him? Seems like you're going pretty hard if not.

I think he's demonstrated himself to be ignorant, though otherwise is he just immature and a bit dim?

[jeemak]

I thought Sherman was injured or suspended for much 2011.
Still did a role when playing seniors and kicked a few goals.
We over payed for him and he was never very good but his 2011 was way better than his 2012.
Pretty obvious the current coach is not a fan of the type of player he is so saying the coach failed him isn't a far stretch.
The great teacher and taskmaster now doesn't him as a pupil.

Maybe the player has not demonstrated any willingness to play the way the coach wants him to play.

I can understand a new coach coming in and trying to ingrain traits in to a players' game, and having him concentrate on those things while curtailing more prevalent attributes as part of the learning process.

If the coaching panel believes Sherman hasn't worked hard enough to change it doesn't necessarily make them bad teachers.

[G-Mo77]

Have you had personal experiences with him? Seems like you're going pretty hard if not.

I think he's demonstrated himself to be ignorant, though otherwise is he just immature and a bit dim?

No I don't know him personally, Richard Cranium is all I edited out so I don't think that's going to hard.

[Remi Moses]

Handy player in a good side.
Struggled at Brisbane when they struggled in 2010.
General consensus is that he doesn't play well in a crap team.

[LongWait]

Who said stellar? I said way better than 2012

Well if you think that Sherman has played well with us, or that he has been worth pick 22, you'd be wrong. What do you think that Sherman would get for us in a trade now? He was traded for an end of first round draft pick FFS!

To blame McCartney for Sherman's output over two years is a joke and typical of the irrational blame-laying that McCartney suffers from the Eade fan-bois on here.

[LongWait]

Played 14 games in 2011, how do you expect him to poll in a B&F? For your info until he was suspended last year he was our leader for scoring assists and 9th overall in the AFL to that point.

I know many on this forum don't rate him and that's fine. As for the coach he has it in for him as he can't crack in, but blind freddy can see he is an outside running player and the coach don't like that type.

In 2011 Sherman played the 10th most games for the club and yet polled 15th in the club best and fairest. So to make this crystal clear - only 9 players played more games than Sherman in 2011 and yet 14 players polled more B&F votes.

Can you tell me how this underachievement in 2011 is McCartney's fault?

[Remi Moses]

In 2011 Sherman played the 10th most games for the club and yet polled 15th in the club best and fairest. So to make this crystal clear - only 9 players played more games than Sherman in 2011 and yet 14 players polled more B&F votes.

Can you tell me how this underachievement in 2011 is McCartney's fault?

Agree, he was underwhelming in 2011 after a good start.
Nothing to do with the coach

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't think Sherman is as bad as he's made out to be, but at the same time, I don't think McCartney is to 'blame' like a few posters keep alluding to. It's true that he has not improved in 4-5 years, it's also (seemingly) true that he isn't in McCartney's plans. He still has talent, of course.

All in all, the decision to initially recruit him with an early pick hasn't been a good one in hindsight. If you want to point fingers, perhaps Eade has some short sighted vision - but again, I don't blame him. We thought we were close to a premiership, we thought we could improve him. It made sense at the time.

What we need to work out is a) whether we are prepared to play him and put up with his faults or b) trade him out for very little - maybe a late draft pick or an upgrade in picks.

[Remi Moses]

Well if you think that Sherman has played well with us, or that he has been worth pick 22, you'd be wrong. What do you think that Sherman would get for us in a trade now? He was traded for an end of first round draft pick FFS!

To blame McCartney for Sherman's output over two years is a joke and typical of the irrational blame-laying that McCartney suffers from the Eade fan-bois on here.

He's got a pathological dislike of McCartney.
It's irrational and pretty sad to be honest

[G-Mo77]

All in all, the decision to initially recruit him with an early pick hasn't been a good one in hindsight. If you want to point fingers, perhaps Eade has some short sighted vision - but again, I don't blame him. We thought we were close to a premiership, we thought we could improve him. It made sense at the time.


I don't think there were to many around here who did dispute it. He was the mold of a player we needed at the time and pretty badly after we lost one of our best running players. It's a pity he turned into a pumpkin when we got here.

[Topdog]

Don't care who is to blame (personally dont think he is a very good player) but f the coach wont play him we gotta get rid.

[LongWait]

I don't think Sherman is as bad as he's made out to be, but at the same time, I don't think McCartney is to 'blame' like a few posters keep alluding to. It's true that he has not improved in 4-5 years, it's also (seemingly) true that he isn't in McCartney's plans. He still has talent, of course.

All in all, the decision to initially recruit him with an early pick hasn't been a good one in hindsight. If you want to point fingers, perhaps Eade has some short sighted vision - but again, I don't blame him. We thought we were close to a premiership, we thought we could improve him. It made sense at the time.

What we need to work out is a) whether we are prepared to play him and put up with his faults or b) trade him out for very little - maybe a late draft pick or an upgrade in picks.

I agree that Eade deserves no blame whatsoever for Sherman's performance and, at the time, Sherman's recruitment looked like it was a worthwhile plan.

Sherman should be held responsible for his own performance since joining the club, regardless of whether you think Justin has played reasonably well, or whether you think he has been a disappointment.

[Desipura]

Well if you think that Sherman has played well with us, or that he has been worth pick 22, you'd be wrong. What do you think that Sherman would get for us in a trade now? He was traded for an end of first round draft pick FFS!

To blame McCartney for Sherman's output over two years is a joke and typical of the irrational blame-laying that McCartney suffers from the Eade fan-bois on here.

I agree with your comments. You make a lot of sense and give balanced views.

[LostDoggy]

From the games that I saw, Sherman ran around the park doing his own thing. There seemed to be no structures he was adhering to and no discipline to his play. The exact opposite to the way the Swans play, for example. If he's not willing to be, or capable of, being a team player then he should be gone.

[GVGjr]

No ones suggested he had a stellar year...however I think the point that McCartney has dealt with him wrongly has some merit. Yes, he has now had several coaches, but IIRC He wanted to leave Brisbane, not the other way round. It's not like they got rid of him.

He's been asked to adapt and hasn't. It's not like he's been asked to play in a key position that he's not physically capable of doing. With what he's been asked to do he should have been able to respond.
The problem isn't with the coach.

Rawlings had a similar issue with Eade. Rocket want him to play CHB but keep the ball moving. Rawlings simply couldn't respond and was gone 12 months later with us paying part of his salary.

[LostDoggy]

Well if you think that Sherman has played well with us, or that he has been worth pick 22, you'd be wrong. What do you think that Sherman would get for us in a trade now? He was traded for an end of first round draft pick FFS!

To blame McCartney for Sherman's output over two years is a joke and typical of the irrational blame-laying that McCartney suffers from the Eade fan-bois on here.
You're really good at assuming.
I never even said he played well with us.
I never blamed McCartney for his 2 years with us.
You mentioned Eade not me.

[anfo27]

Sherman doesn't get a game because he simply refuses to have a defensive side to his game. Outside runner or not he needs to defend when we don't have the ball. No room for Blake Caracella type players anymore so we have trade him for whatever we can get.

[Sedat]

How many years will Sherman fail to deliver before it becomes his fault?

His best year was 2006 as a 19 year old and he hasn't improved since. He's had 4 coaches and none of them have managed to get him to perform, including all time great Leigh Matthews.
This. Sherman has been sub-par for the vast majority of his career. He is quite simply a very ordinary AFL footballer.

[bornadog]

Can you tell me how this underachievement in 2011 is McCartney's fault?

I am more and more convinced you only read what you want to so that you can object to what I write and my opinions.

How the hell can I blame McCartney for 2011 when he was no where the club?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[LongWait]

I am more and more convinced you only read what you want to so that you can object to what I write and my opinions.

How the hell can I blame McCartney for 2011 when he was no where the club?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The only responses I have made to your posts this week (until this ridiculous Sherman conversation) have been in agreement with you or have been neutral and simply adding my two bob's worth.

[ledge]

I'm not sure how much our new coach had to do with our draft picks last year but I do believe the choices were a lot better than previous drafts.
Ladder position helped us last year and father/ son did the year before though.

[Greystache]

Let's not take the thread off track, if you want to discuss a different topic just start a new thread.

[G-Mo77]

Big announcement from the club tomorrow. Anyone heard any gossip?

[LostDoggy]

This constant old Eade group vs persistent posters at them for their (perceived) bias is making it WOOF very predictable and boring ATM.

Who wants to join me in my third group? It's called 'The I valued what Eade did for us and I'm not sure about B-Mac but for the sake of the club, I hope he does well group'.
Firstly I'm a bulldog fan first and foremost. No individual is greater than club.
Questioning whether I want us to win is pretty silly.
I'm in the Eade's gone, not coming back and the new guy isn't very good group.

If McCartney goes anywhere with us I'll gladly eat my words just don't see it happening.

[DOG GOD]

Big announcement from the club tomorrow. Anyone heard any gossip?

Has the club announced minson's signing yet? Maybe it's that.

[Pickenitup]

Possibly New Assistant Coach?
Heard possibly Monty into a developement Role and Mooney In
Not Sure If German will be with us Next Year.

[DOG GOD]

Lynch has quit the Eagles and is going back to Melbourne. He wasn't happy with a 1 year deal, I hope he isn't coming our way.

Why? He would walk into our fwd line and at least make a contest. Not saying I would certainly want him, but I wouldn't totally disregard it.

[ledge]

Lynch has quit the Eagles and is going back to Melbourne. He wasn't happy with a 1 year deal, I hope he isn't coming our way.

Someone told me he signed with the pies.

[Hotdog60]

Why? He would walk into our fwd line and at least make a contest. Not saying I would certainly want him, but I wouldn't totally disregard it.

If we go for him it would mean that we offered at least a 2 year deal and most likely on big bucks and I don't think the Q stick has done a lot in the last couple of seasons.

He's a experienced big body but does he crack in!;)

[Remi Moses]

Just heard Nathan Brown (not him) could be on the way out.
Any interest?

[AndrewP6]

Just heard Nathan Brown (not him) could be on the way out.
Any interest?

The one from Collingwood? Don't know a heap about him, but he had a couple bad knee injuries last year, I think.

[Remi Moses]

The one from Collingwood? Don't know a heap about him, but he had a couple bad knee injuries last year, I think.

Yep. Him and his twin have had injury problems.
Definite no to Q. Lynch

[LongWait]

Does your "posty" know if we are looking at anyone?

I've heard we might be interested in trading but not in any free agents. Koby Stevens of WCE has been linked to us in the media.

Without trying to be Captain Obvious, this is the time of year when thinking within the club can change as opportunities arise and disappear and the 'insider' rumors can be a lot less reliable.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Totally agree on this. If a few clubs are interested, WCE may get a 4th round pick for him, no thanks!

Free agent so you would think they will get the lowest band of compo

[GVGjr]

I've heard we might be interested in trading but not in any free agents. Koby Stevens of WCE has been linked to us in the media.

Without trying to be Captain Obvious, this is the time of year when thinking within the club can change as opportunities arise and disappear and the 'insider' rumors can be a lot less reliable.


Agree. We will be linked to a lot of players during the trade period and yet me might walk away without trading for anyone. I suspect we might make one trade and I don't think it will be that significant. Perhaps we could get an out of contract player via the pre-season draft.

[bulldogsman]

The cuts continue. If Panos goes as well as G-Mo77 has heard that would mean there are 7 open spots on the list at present, two of which will probably go to Campbell and Johannisen.

By my count it's up to 8. Panos, Hill, DJ, Gilbee, Hargrave, Mulligan, Hooper & Moles.

Possibly 2 more with Vez and Skinner.

[Rocco Jones]

Glad to see they are cutting deep, hope they continue with Vez and Skinner.

5th/6th round picks are like have a lotto ticket, not a great chance but Vez and co are like last week's lotto ticket.

[Mofra]

5th/6th round picks are like have a lotto ticket, not a great chance but Vez and co are like last week's lotto ticket.
A lotto ticket that under Clayton was about as reliable as his first round selections :(

There seems to be a bit of midfield talent running deep if the part-time kiddie watchers are to be believed. With guys like Cross at 56 and Boyd as a rookie, as well as our rookie picks last year, I don't mind us having a punt on late picks if list cloggers who have had chances fail to take those chances.

I am concerned we are supposedly "linked" to so many youngish fringe out of favour types from other clubs. Very few really kick on elsewhere. Tom Harley is an example of one that did and Rodan was serviceable, Schutz was probbaly more of a legitimate trade and our fringe pick ups (Moles, DJ, Vez etc) haven't worked out.

Not sure what Stevens really brings to the table unless we're looking at him for a HFF, Toy I remain unconvinced by, not sure how strong the Bell rumours are.

We need A grade talent. I'm thinking trading hard for Jack Martin is actually a good thing if it means we get one more top-liner into the squad.

[LongWait]

Has Panos been delisted?

Rumors from BigFooty today that Hill and Panos have both been delisted. Hard to tell how reliable the information is.

ps. Should add that neither Stevens nor Landsburger have mentioned anything about it and they are often pretty quick off the mark with Bulldogs news.

[LongWait]

Hill's been delisted, trust me

Sure. What about Panos Remi? He was supposed to be the next Peter Hudson.

[LongWait]

Brett Thornton to the Bulldogs rumors still floating around.

Would appear to be an unlikely one given he will turn 29 in November. Is an unrestricted free agent though, so would add size (192cm) and experience (188 games) and not cost us anything other than a probably very modest salary. Can play at both ends, so is flexible. Not going to change our fortunes either way though, is he?

[soupman]

Brett Thornton to the Bulldogs rumors still floating around.

Would appear to be an unlikely one given he will turn 29 in November. Is an unrestricted free agent though, so would add size (192cm) and experience (188 games) and not cost us anything other than a probably very modest salary. Can play at both ends, so is flexible. Not going to change our fortunes either way though, is he?

Why would we ever consider this?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Why would we ever consider this?

I'd break down in tears if we got him.

I like our decision to cut Panos and Hill - if true. Both didn't show enough, the only reason we'd keep them is because they're tall.

I'd be happy enough to keep Skinner for one more year, but I think we need to cut/trade Vez.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'd be happy enough to keep Skinner for one more year, but I think we need to cut/trade Vez.

I'm the other way around on this, I'd keep Ves and delist Skinner

[Rocco Jones]

Imagine Zeph Skinner was a Williamstown listed player. Anyone recomending we draft him, even with our last pick, would rightfully be laughed at.

[GVGjr]

Brett Thornton to the Bulldogs rumors still floating around.

Would appear to be an unlikely one given he will turn 29 in November. Is an unrestricted free agent though, so would add size (192cm) and experience (188 games) and not cost us anything other than a probably very modest salary. Can play at both ends, so is flexible. Not going to change our fortunes either way though, is he?

I think we already have a better option in Mark Austin that we could upgrade.
I don't think Thornton gives us much.

[G-Mo77]

Brett Thornton to the Bulldogs rumors still floating around.

Would appear to be an unlikely one given he will turn 29 in November. Is an unrestricted free agent though, so would add size (192cm) and experience (188 games) and not cost us anything other than a probably very modest salary. Can play at both ends, so is flexible. Not going to change our fortunes either way though, is he?

Oh LongWait. I was having a good weekend. Why did you have to ruin it. :(

[bulldogsthru&thru]

reports we are really considering trading picks 5 and 6 to GWS for pick 9 and the first selection in the mini-draft. Pick 9 on-traded from Richmond for Dom Tyson

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/trade-and-draft/richmonds-desire-to-snare-young-gws-giants-midfielder-dom-tyson-could-be-aided-by-western-bulldogs/story-fna8vsun-1226485702156

[G-Mo77]

Well hopefully it is just a bullshit rumor. Have a look on the other footy websites though and you will see it is being discussed. :(

Yeah I've heard it as well. Just trying to block it out. Rumors went round a couple of years ago we were after him and I dreaded this moment when I saw the Free Agent list. At least if Sherman stays there will be a player I can't stand even more. I've got his VFL prelim final against Willy 2 years ago etched into my memory when he called out people in the crowd at half time behind about 10 teammates pretending to be restrained. Wanker!

[LostDoggy]

reports we are really considering trading picks 5 and 6 to GWS for pick 9 and the first selection in the mini-draft. Pick 9 on-traded from Richmond for Dom Tyson

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/trade-and-draft/richmonds-desire-to-snare-young-gws-giants-midfielder-dom-tyson-could-be-aided-by-western-bulldogs/story-fna8vsun-1226485702156

Just read that too. God I hope we know what we're doing and don't muck this up

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Just read that too. God I hope we know what we're doing and don't muck this up

yeah really dont like the idea of giving up such high picks but apparently its a play to get Jack Martin. I'd just hate to think after a few years Martin decides he wants to head back home to WA like so many WA players do.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yeah I've heard it as well. Just trying to block it out. Rumors went round a couple of years ago we were after him and I dreaded this moment when I saw the Free Agent list. At least if Sherman stays there will be a player I can't stand even more. I've got his VFL prelim final against Willy 2 years ago etched into my memory when he called out people in the crowd at half time behind about 10 teammates pretending to be restrained. Wanker!

i will lose all faith in Macca if this is indeed true

[LostDoggy]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-to-target-bulldogs-defender-brian-lake/story-fnca0u4y-1226484953560

Hawthorn apparently after Brian, hope this is bs.

[gohardorgohome]

Brian Lake is the best full back we have had in my time...... That said I'm inclined to seek their first round draft pick........ I cant see them giving that so I would think they will need to trade for a mid round two pick.

This will free up more salary to trade in a decent 23-25 year old.

IMO one of the real strengths of good list management is knowing when to trade out an older player for over the odds.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd only trade Lake if we saw ourselves as clearly winning from the trade.

First round pick + a good player.

[KT31]

I'd only trade Lake if we saw ourselves as clearly winning from the trade.

First round pick + a good player.

Would consider a straight swap for Buddy.:D

[LostDoggy]

I'd only trade Lake if we saw ourselves as clearly winning from the trade.

First round pick + a good player.

Was that a joke?

If Lake wants to go, if we are happy for him to go and if Hawks want and can afford him (a few big ifs there) then Hawks first and second round picks for our second pick and Lake seems about what could be expected.

So in effect (roughly)

Dogs get - Pick 20, 39

Hawks get - Lake, Pick 26

We'd like more but its hard to see it happening. Possibly a good kicking Hawks fringe player (Savage? instead of the second rounder?)

[LostDoggy]

Brian Lake is the best full back we have had in my time...... That said I'm inclined to seek their first round draft pick........ I cant see them giving that so I would think they will need to trade for a mid round two pick.

This will free up more salary to trade in a decent 23-25 year old.

IMO one of the real strengths of good list management is knowing when to trade out an older player for over the odds.

Not so sure the fans will take kindly to 100point floggings every week because the club has traded an AA full back!

[Remi Moses]

Probably have to get a player as well.
Pretty fair deal I'd say, and with Hawthorn's window well open they'd look at it.

[gohardorgohome]

Not so sure the fans will take kindly to 100point floggings every week because the club has traded an AA full back!

The next two years are development years anyway..... I think it is fair to say that we wont make top two on the ladder regardless if Brian Lake stays with us or not......

The questions list managers need to include

"Can a player develop into a premiership player? If not get what you can for the player"
"Can we recieve over this odds for a player?"
"Can we pay under the odds for a potential premiership player?"

Short term thrashings dont mean a thing if the foundations for long term success are being established.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Was that a joke?

If Lake wants to go, if we are happy for him to go and if Hawks want and can afford him (a few big ifs there) then Hawks first and second round picks for our second pick and Lake seems about what could be expected.

So in effect (roughly)

Dogs get - Pick 20, 39

Hawks get - Lake, Pick 26

We'd like more but its hard to see it happening. Possibly a good kicking Hawks fringe player (Savage? instead of the second rounder?)

Will you deliver Lake wrapped in paper with a perfectly tied bow to their doorstep, too?

You don't trade out AA FB's for the sake of it, and that's without delving into the loyalty/fabric of the club issue, unless it's an offer you clearly cannot refuse.

[Remi Moses]

Will you deliver Lake wrapped in paper with a perfectly tied bow to their doorstep, too?

You don't trade out AA FB's for the sake of it, and that's without delving into the loyalty/fabric of the club issue, unless it's an offer you clearly cannot refuse.

Wouldn't think he'd get there again.If he said he wants out, then by all means.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Will you deliver Lake wrapped in paper with a perfectly tied bow to their doorstep, too?

You don't trade out AA FB's for the sake of it, and that's without delving into the loyalty/fabric of the club issue, unless it's an offer you clearly cannot refuse.

I think the issue is that Pick 20 and a downgraded pick just isn't worth it.

We already have a lot of kids on the list, and will soon have more. No doubt we need kids but Lake is structurally important, one of best performing senior players based on 2012.

Plus, Lake seems to have bought into what the coach is doing/preaching, has got himself fitter. Sure hes getting older by why do we want to offload him unless its a really good offer?

For a contracted player to leave we either have to want rid of him or they have to be prepared to pay overs. If you want someone elses guy thats the way it is, otherwise it would just be a lowball offer.

[1eyedog]

Not so sure the fans will take kindly to 100point floggings every week because the club has traded an AA full back!

Well we put up with 70-80 point flogging for most of the second half of the year so I don't see much difference here.

[G-Mo77]

I'd only trade Lake if we saw ourselves as clearly winning from the trade.

First round pick + a good player.

And that's the way it would have to play out. He's under contract so we would have to be blown away with the offer to deal.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe if we got a decent 24-25 year old and a draft pick in return. Brian has 2-3 years left and I doubt he will feature in our next premiership quest.

Plus, we could remove ourselves of his contract.

[immortalmike]

Maybe if we got a decent 24-25 year old and a draft pick in return. Brian has 2-3 years left and I doubt he will feature in our next premiership quest.

Plus, we could remove ourselves of his contract.

Why would that matter we'd have no troubles with the salary cap.

Trading Lake isn't a great idea. Youth policies are death. When is the last time Geelong or Sydney traded off a senior player who was performing well?

[Bulldog Joe]

Geelong did with Moloney and Colbert and got 2 important cogs in their premiership run in Mooney and Ottens.
Collingwood also did it with Tarrant.
Sydney have an extra $800K so they can trade them in without losing good ones in return.

Moloney was behind a few at Geelong
Colbert refused to stay at Geelong.

Both trades occurred before Geelong had established themselves as the genuine article.

[LostDoggy]

Moloney was behind a few at Geelong
Colbert refused to stay at Geelong.

Both trades occurred before Geelong had established themselves as the genuine article.

What about trading Leon Cameron for picks that netted Hargrave and Hahn? If we can get a good price I don't think its the dumbest idea in the world?

[Throughandthrough]

I would spew my guts up if we traded our lake. And I don't believe we
Will unless

A: he is the club stirrer and undermines the coach

Or B: we get Gary Ablett in return

[bornadog]

I would spew my guts up if we traded our lake. And I don't believe we
Will unless

A: he is the club stirrer and undermines the coach

Or B: we get Gary Ablett in return

This ^^


What about trading Leon Cameron for picks that netted Hargrave and Hahn? If we can get a good price I don't think its the dumbest idea in the world?

Trading out Leon Cameron was the worst thing we did, so no analogy. Who is to say we wouldn't have got good players with other picks that year.

[LostDoggy]

This ^^



Trading out Leon Cameron was the worst thing we did, so no analogy. Who is to say we wouldn't have got good players with other picks that year.

Guess we'll have to differ, I thought it was one our best trade moves and by the way we got Gilbee with one our scheduled picks. Football has become a business, loyalty is pretty much dead. See Goddard. The only rider being, unless a club is looking at a premiership in which case players in a team will sacrifice pay for glory.

[KT31]

The next two years are development years anyway..... I think it is fair to say that we wont make top two on the ladder regardless if Brian Lake stays with us or not......

The questions list managers need to include

"Can a player develop into a premiership player? If not get what you can for the player"
"Can we recieve over this odds for a player?"
"Can we pay under the odds for a potential premiership player?"

Short term thrashings dont mean a thing if the foundations for long term success are being established.

Shouldn' t the question be" Do you want to stay Brian".
"Yes" no worries you will be a Doggie for life.
"No" why not and what do we need to do to keep you at the club.
The 70's and 80's were littered with us trading a decent or great players for a crap players or two.
Let's not go back down that path.

[LostDoggy]

If a good deal is offered for Lake, I'd be willing to take it. A first rounder plus a young player we want would do it for me.
He was good in the first half of last year for us but I thought he fell away in the second half (along with most others mind you). At his age, decline can be quite sudden. Unlike others who think Lake has 2-3 years in him, I think he only has 1. I think he will be serviceable next year with no guarantee he will be best 22 in 2014.
So if a good deal was offered, I'd be willing to forego next years output from Lake. In regards to trading him, I don't know why but I don't put Lake in the category of Murphy, Boyd, Cross, Gia, Morris as untradeable one-club players.

[Bulldog4life]

Shouldn' t the question be" Do you want to stay Brian".
"Yes" no worries you will be a Doggie for life.
"No" why not and what do we need to do to keep you at the club.
The 70's and 80's were littered with us trading a decent or great players for a crap players or two.
Let's not go back down that path.

I am similar but my scenario is if Brian wants to stay he stays 100%, which I hope he does. If he says to the Club he wants out well that is different and we get the best deal we can for him. We only want players who are committed to our Club.

[AndrewP6]

I am similar but my scenario is if Brian wants to stay he stays 100%, which I hope he does. If he says to the Club he wants out well that is different and we get the best deal we can for him. We only want players who are committed to our Club.

This same sort of comment came out last year, when some journos had him gone - only to have him stay! What's he done to indicate that he's not committed. IIRC, he's put himself through multiple surgeries, spent the better part of a year trying to get right, and in return he's had his commitment questioned? Makes no sense to me.

That's not a dig at you personally, just bugs me. Until we actually hear that he wants out, he's one of us.

[LongWait]

This same sort of comment came out last year, when some journos had him gone - only to have him stay! What's he done to indicate that he's not committed. IIRC, he's put himself through multiple surgeries, spent the better part of a year trying to get right, and in return he's had his commitment questioned? Makes no sense to me.

That's not a dig at you personally, just bugs me. Until we actually hear that he wants out, he's one of us.

I agree that Denham just runs the Lake to Hawthorn story each year because it sounds plausible and if it actually happens he'd look like he is an insider with a scoop.

I also agree that we shouldn't shop Lake around unless he says he wants out. Lake has given no indication that I'm aware of that he is looking for a move.

[LostDoggy]

Well we put up with 70-80 point flogging for most of the second half of the year so I don't see much difference here.

Sorry, I meant on the back of the floggings we endured this year!

[Bulldog4life]

This same sort of comment came out last year, when some journos had him gone - only to have him stay! What's he done to indicate that he's not committed. IIRC, he's put himself through multiple surgeries, spent the better part of a year trying to get right, and in return he's had his commitment questioned? Makes no sense to me.

That's not a dig at you personally, just bugs me. Until we actually hear that he wants out, he's one of us.

Read my post again I said "If he wants out" with emphasis on the if! That goes for all players who don't want to stay with the Club.

[Greystache]

The trade rumours section on the HS is saying they asked the Bulldogs about a potential trade with Hawthorn for Lake and we've flatly ruled it out as a possibility.

[EasternWest]

The trade rumours section on the HS is saying they asked the Bulldogs about a potential trade with Hawthorn for Lake and we've flatly ruled it out as a possibility.

Good.

[bornadog]

The trade rumours section on the HS is saying they asked the Bulldogs about a potential trade with Hawthorn for Lake and we've flatly ruled it out as a possibility.

They can have Markovic

[Hotdog60]

Rumors have Sherman off to his third club but no other details, could be media banter because he has had limit time this year.

Also Stevo has Wellingham to the Eagles.

[AndrewP6]

Read my post again I said "If he wants out" with emphasis on the if! That goes for all players who don't want to stay with the Club.

Fair enough. IMO talk of players being traded should be left until it is actually known they want to leave. Anyhoo, moving on...

[Bulldog4life]

Fair enough. IMO talk of players being traded should be left until it is actually known they want to leave. Anyhoo, moving on...

I agree. Actually I was responding to someone who commented on an article in a newspaper. It wasn't started by any woofers...now moving on. :)

[always right]

I mentioned Ayres because he has experience , still coaches at a decent level successfully and seems to have a good footy brain for game day. Just a name I thought of straight away.

And he might be good for your Boyds, your Minsons and your Lakes.

[LostDoggy]

Anyone got any thoughts on Mitchell Brown from Geelong, not sure if his opportunities still limited with Pod retiring, maybe Vardy will crowd him out? Possibly a good KPF option if coming cheap enough?

[bulldogsman]

Anyone got any thoughts on Mitchell Brown from Geelong, not sure if his opportunities still limited with Pod retiring, maybe Vardy will crowd him out? Possibly a good KPF option if coming cheap enough?

I really like him. He's had a stack of injuries though, so I'm not sure. Probably for a late pick I would, does he want out?

[azabob]

I really like him. He's had a stack of injuries though, so I'm not sure. Probably for a late pick I would, does he want out?

Geelong I'd imagine would want to keep him. I would think you would have to give up a late first round, early second round pick for him.

[azabob]

Leroy Jetta is out of contract any interest?

Stache, how has he performed in the last year or so?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Geelong I'd imagine would want to keep him. I would think you would have to give up a late first round, early second round pick for him.

Probably worth asking about, but agree, tend to think Geelong would want more than he's worth.

I do think Brown is more of a VFL standard footballer, though. Struggles with the intensity and physicality of AFL.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

If a good deal is offered for Lake, I'd be willing to take it. A first rounder plus a young player we want would do it for me.
He was good in the first half of last year for us but I thought he fell away in the second half (along with most others mind you). At his age, decline can be quite sudden. Unlike others who think Lake has 2-3 years in him, I think he only has 1. I think he will be serviceable next year with no guarantee he will be best 22 in 2014.
So if a good deal was offered, I'd be willing to forego next years output from Lake. In regards to trading him, I don't know why but I don't put Lake in the category of Murphy, Boyd, Cross, Gia, Morris as untradeable one-club players.
The trouble with letting Lake go is we do not have another quality key positional player forward or back.

[Hotdog60]

Which media outlet mentioned Shermo being traded?

News.com.au so don't read to much in it.

[EasternWest]

News.com.au so don't read to much in it.

You just popped G-MO's bubble. I swear I heard the sonic boom from his air punch at the idea of getting rid of Sherman.

[G-Mo77]

You just popped G-MO's bubble. I swear I heard the sonic boom from his air punch at the idea of getting rid of Sherman.

I'll wait for confirmation to do an air punch. I'll even throw a few extras in for ya. ;)

[LostDoggy]

The trouble with letting Lake go is we do not have another quality key positional player forward or back.

Lake as a quality key positional forward is arguable. Not sure what he's done there that justifies that. As a key back (and probably our finest ever), my opinion is that he only has one year left. I thought he struggled to the line this year and it only gets harder after you cross 30. So even if we keep Lake, he won't be a gun tall in 2014+ and will need replacing. The trade just means we start a year earlier with a nice pick (if offered).

[AndrewP6]

Lake as a quality key positional forward is arguable. Not sure what he's done there that justifies that. As a key back (and probably our finest ever), my opinion is that he only has one year left. I thought he struggled to the line this year and it only gets harder after you cross 30. So even if we keep Lake, he won't be a gun tall in 2014+ and will need replacing. The trade just means we start a year earlier with a nice pick (if offered).

I think the point was that if, heaven forbid, we were to lose him, we wouldn't have any KP players at all.