Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

[bulldogsthru&thru]

stronger rumblings for us to give up picks 5 and 6 for Jack Martin in the mini draft along with perhaps pick 9.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149203/default.aspx

I dont like the idea of giving up 2 high picks for a 17 year old. These high picks dont come often and should be used wisely

[Desipura]

stronger rumblings for us to give up picks 5 and 6 for Jack Martin in the mini draft along with perhaps pick 9.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149203/default.aspx

I dont like the idea of giving up 2 high picks for a 17 year old. These high picks dont come often and should be used wisely

Apparently Jack Martin's don't come around often either.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Apparently Jack Martin's don't come around often either.

yes i dont know much about him but we apparently have done "thourough research" on him. He's obviously a rare talent and perhaps a number 1 pick if he entered next years draft so with that said he would be worth picks 5 and 6. I just have my doubts over players so young. Whilst he's obviously still young, he dones't look to have anywhere near an AFL body just yet.

[LostDoggy]

If Jack Martin is going to be a dead set champion in every sense of the word, then I believe we go after him, so as to mould a team around him. The question is - is he worth it? I have no idea but everyone seems to rate him extremely highly. The club needs a true blue blood. And for me, it's a case of whatever it takes to get one. The rebuild starts with an identified champion of the future around which we build other hard nuts. In essence, by the time we get a team that has the majority of it's players having played 50 games, many of our older players will have gone. Therefore the current older players are not the key to the future. The key to the future is how well we draft the kids in 2012 and 2013 and maybe even 2014.

[Cyberdoggie]

Apparently Jack Martin's don't come around often either.

There is someone on here that would know a lot more than i would but the description from shifter Sheehan is that he is a rare find as he is an elite athlete and footballer in one.
The draft combine has shown he is skilled off the boot, quick and can jump and kick goals.

The one knock on him is that he is very lightly built. Looks like a thin Lewis Jetta or Stephen Hill. However he does like the physical stuff and has shown his slight build doesn't stop him from playing an inside physical game. Should build up enough to not be a concern.

If he's the man we want and he's as good as people say then we should be prepared to do whatever it takes to get him.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

does anyone know if GWS has the rights to pick players from the mini-draft or do they just have rights to trade players in the mini draft?

[LongWait]

does anyone know if GWS has the rights to pick players from the mini-draft or do they just have rights to trade players in the mini draft?

GWS tried to engineer themselves into keeping a MD pick last year and the AFL squashed it.

GWS must trade the MD picks and cannot trade for them to be returned to them.

They trade the picks - not specific players.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

the more i hear about Martin the more appealing he sounds. I guess if Melbourne don't have to give up pick 3 for Viney they will be front runners to land Martin if they choose to. Otherwise he is ours if we want him. Im really hoping GWS or more likely GC bid their first pick on Viney!

[Sedat]

GWS tried to engineer themselves into keeping a MD pick last year and the AFL squashed it.
Your point is spot on, GWS cannot trade back into the mini draft. So it is in their best interests to engineer a favourable trade with another club(s) for the likes of Martin and Hogan.

[westdog54]

Your point is spot on, GWS cannot trade back into the mini draft. So it is in their best interests to engineer a favourable trade with another club(s) for the likes of Martin and Hogan.

The question then becomes: would GWS prefer pick 2 plus something, pick 4 plus something, or picks 5 and 6 plus something less something else?

Given they already have pick 1, I know which I'd prefer.

[LongWait]

The question then becomes: would GWS prefer pick 2 plus something, pick 4 plus something, or picks 5 and 6 plus something less something else?

Given they already have pick 1, I know which I'd prefer.

It's highly unlikely that Gold Coast would offer pick 2 for a Mini Draft pick, especially when Toumpass is sitting there begging for them to take him. Toumpass is rated by many as highly, or more highly, than Martin (and can play from round 1 next year.)

Melbourne with pick 4 are maybe a threat if they don't need to use pick 3 on Viney, but Melbourne seem very keen to add ready-to-play guys to their list and the Mini Draft players are not eligible and won't be ready until at least 2014. Melbourne will possibly be attracted to Grundy or maybe even Macrae with pick 4, if 3 goes on Viney.

We are in the box seat for Martin but need to be very careful that we don't overpay. We have to be prepared to lose Martin in ensuring that we maximise the value of picks 5 and 6 by not overpaying for him. I'd reckon pick 6 should be our top bid for him if we only bid for MD1.

It would be so easy to "fall in love with the deal" and forget the real value of Martin. So often in business I've seen goal displacement occur in these situations: landing Martin becomes the objective, instead of landing the best deal for our club (which may or may not include Martin.)

Sorry for the rant but I'm very concerned that the club gets this negotiation right - it could be the most important trade/drafting period in our history.

[westdog54]

It's highly unlikely that Gold Coast would offer pick 2 for a Mini Draft pick, especially when Toumpass is sitting there begging for them to take him. Toumpass is rated by many as highly, or more highly, than Martin (and can play from round 1 next year.)

Melbourne with pick 4 are maybe a threat if they don't need to use pick 3 on Viney, but Melbourne seem very keen to add ready-to-play guys to their list and the Mini Draft players are not eligible and won't be ready until at least 2014. Melbourne will possibly be attracted to Grundy or maybe even Macrae with pick 4, if 3 goes on Viney.

We are in the box seat for Martin but need to be very careful that we don't overpay. We have to be prepared to lose Martin in ensuring that we maximise the value of picks 5 and 6by not overpaying for him. I'd reckon pick 6 should be our top bid for him if we only bid for MD1.

It would be so easy to "fall in love with the deal" and forget the real value of Martin. So often in business I've seen goal displacement occur in these situations: landing Martin becomes the objective, instead of landing the best deal for our club (hich may or may not include Martin.)

Sorry for the rant but I'm very concerned that the club gets this negotiation right - it could be the most important trade/drafting period in our history.

Does the Pick 5 and 6 for Pick 9, MD Pick 1 and Anderson deal appeal to you?

[LongWait]

Does the Pick 5 and 6 for Pick 9, MD Pick 1 and Anderson deal appeal to you?

Absolutely it does. It seems a very good deal to me and that's why I'm a little sceptical about whether it will happen. A guy I know who I used to work with, who now works for the AFL, claims it is being talked about over the water cooler at AFL house as a possibility (for what that is worth.)

[westdog54]

Absolutely it does. It seems a very good deal to me and that's why I'm a little sceptical about whether it will happen. A guy I know who I used to work with, who now works for the AFL, claims it is being talked about over the water cooler at AFL house as a possibility (for what that is worth.)

Now who's being negative?:p.

The problem with this deal is that it relies on Richmond coming to the party and I'm not sure that GWS will view Tyson as being worth only pick 9 and Richmond may need to sweeten their end of the deal.

Beyond that I think the deal is about as win-win as you can get. We get Martin and keep ourselves in the first round of the draft, plus pick up another highly rated player, GWS get to utilise a player that has no intention of playing for them to pick up picks 5 and 6, Tyson doesn't have to play for GWS anymore, and Richmond get their man. Everybody wins.

I'm quietly confident that a deal will get done.

[LongWait]

Now who's being negative?:p.

The problem with this deal is that it relies on Richmond coming to the party and I'm not sure that GWS will view Tyson as being worth only pick 9 and Richmond may need to sweeten their end of the deal.

Beyond that I think the deal is about as win-win as you can get. We get Martin and keep ourselves in the first round of the draft, plus pick up another highly rated player, GWS get to utilise a player that has no intention of playing for them to pick up picks 5 and 6, Tyson doesn't have to play for GWS anymore, and Richmond get their man. Everybody wins.

I'm quietly confident that a deal will get done.

Agree with all that (including the slap for me being negative!) :p

[The Cowshed]

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

[GVGjr]

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

.

FWIW, He weighed in a little over 70kg at the combine

[stefoid]

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

Dalhaus was pretty skinny and slight when we got him. If they can play, weight isnt much of an issue, and he will start playing forward / outside anyway.

The problem with the three players you mentioned is they cant play. Even 6 years into the system, with their bodies conditioned and at playing weight, they were/are just hacks.

[jeemak]

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

For a 17 year old weighing between 64kg and the 'stache's number of 70kg isn't so bad. Given some time in our system he's likely to be around the 80-85kg mark by the time he's 20-21, which will be perfect for how football is played these days. The main thing for him though is developing his core, and getting big around the glutes, thighs, flexers etc.

Being good or competitive in 2014-2015 would be a nice outcome, but I think we all want to be awesome from 2016-2020, and taper off around 2022.

To get there we need to bring in a mix of different players with different sizes and attributes, and we need to back our development programs in areas across the board other than strength to help us get there.

[mjp]

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?


He will play Round 1 2014 - weight or no weight. Attacks the ball with complete commitment.

[Greystache]

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

Richard Tambling never had any problems with being too skinny, he was 180cm and 80kg with a fiarly nugety build. His problem was he couldn't handle the ball cleanly or make a decision under pressure... Or basically play football in any meaningful way.

[Mofra]

Ditto McMahon - he had pace and was a solid HB rebounder, his disposal under pressure just wasn't good enough for the role we wanted him to play. Another 5kgs wouldn't have changed that.

[anfo27]

Richard Tambling never had any problems with being too skinny, he was 180cm and 80kg with a fiarly nugety build. His problem was he couldn't handle the ball cleanly or make a decision under pressure... Or basically play football in any meaningful way.

From what i remember Tambling was drafted based on one stand out game that the Richmond recruiters were present at. Don' think he did much else in the other games. Martin has done way more than 1 stand out game.

[Greystache]

From what i remember Tambling was drafted based on one stand out game that the Richmond recruiters were present at. Don' think he did much else in the other games. Martin has done way more than 1 stand out game.

Tambling was Captain of NT's under 18's and won the Hunter Harrison medal as best player in division 2 in the National Championships. He didn't make much impact as a player in the AFL but it's wrong to suggest he wasn't a very highly credentialed under 18 player.

[The Cowshed]

Tambling was a much touted junior and expected to go No 1 draft pick the year before he was drafted...the jungle drums were beating for a long time before hand that he was something special...I see a direct correlation with Martin's situation now. Just hope we get it right. Ray also racked up getting possessions at will during the U18 champs.

Jeemak sounds like he knows what he's talking about as far as the development that the club's new strengthening arm might be able to do to bring him to AFL standard.

[The Underdog]

Tambling was a much touted junior and expected to go No 1 draft pick the year before he was drafted...the jungle drums were beating for a long time before hand that he was something special...I see a direct correlation with Martin's situation now. Just hope we get it right. Ray also racked up getting possessions at will during the U18 champs.

Jeemak sounds like he knows what he's talking about as far as the development that the club's new strengthening arm might be able to do to bring him to AFL standard.

If the recruiting staff do all they can to bring in the most talented players they can, then that's all we can ask. If Martin is more talented than the players available at our picks this year then do what you can to get him. There's no 100% sure things.

[anfo27]

Tambling was Captain of NT's under 18's and won the Hunter Harrison medal as best player in division 2 in the National Championships. He didn't make much impact as a player in the AFL but it's wrong to suggest he wasn't a very highly credentialed under 18 player.

Fair enough. You must have a good memory there Greystache. I'm just recalling something i heard on the radio a few years back, i think it was Eddie who made the comment.

[Greystache]

Fair enough. You must have a good memory there Greystache. I'm just recalling something i heard on the radio a few years back, i think it was Eddie who made the comment.

A bit of Google involved there too ;)...

When a player fails to make the grade people always tend to look back with 20-20 hindsight to say a player was less credentialed than someone taken later who kicked on, but the reality is most players picked early have been outstanding juniors. Picking the one's that can then go on to be equally succesful at AFL level is where recruiters earn their wage. It's rare for a first round selection to be picked from obscurity these days, although we did it back in 2009.

[LostDoggy]

With Sydney likely to get the same K Tippett who monstered the Hawks in the prelim, I'd say B Lake's price just went up (if he's for sale). An interesting trade period coming.

[Throughandthrough]

He will play Round 1 2014 - weight or no weight. Attacks the ball with complete commitment.


Exactly the opposite to Tambling on every level. :)

[LostDoggy]

I'm quite open to the club discussing a potential trade for Brian ...... but it would need to be benficial for the long term list building strategy of the club, otherwise it is not worth it.

My reasoning is Brian wont be part of our next real assault on the top four and if we can use his trade to further improve the list (with the future in mind) then it may be worth.

[mjp]

I see a direct correlation with Martin's situation now. Just hope we get it right. Ray also racked up getting possessions at will during the U18 champs.


A direct correlation between Tambling winning possessions as a 18yo and Martin being the best player on the ground in 2 games vs Div 1 opposition as a 17yo? I know I am biased but when you start comparing what Farren Ray did in the champs to what Martin accomplished it is getting a bit ridiculous.

[1eyedog]

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

We did, Smith, Wallis and Libba, ready to go and the crux of our southern skies for many years to come. We need some dash on the outside now.


FWIW, He weighed in a little over 70kg at the combine

Yep, he's a monster alright. It's fine to say he will go in 100% committed, but at that weight you just get knocked of your line so easily. Lots of players have been 100% committed but that doesn't mean they are any good in a contest with the big boys.

Martin will take time as a midfielder, we need to temper his enthusiasm for the contest and get him on the outside as much as possible. Talking like we got him already:rolleyes:

[Eastdog]

Hearing news from our Best and Fairest that David Smorgon has annouced that Tom Hill has been delisted.

[mjp]

Martin will take time as a midfielder, we need to temper his enthusiasm for the contest and get him on the outside as much as possible. Talking like we got him already:rolleyes:

Betcha he doesn't.

[anfo27]

Betcha he doesn't.

You've got me so excited about this kid that if we don't get him I'll be gutted.

So you see him stepping into the team round 1 in 2014 & making an impact?

[jeemak]

Tambling was a much touted junior and expected to go No 1 draft pick the year before he was drafted...the jungle drums were beating for a long time before hand that he was something special...I see a direct correlation with Martin's situation now. Just hope we get it right. Ray also racked up getting possessions at will during the U18 champs.

Jeemak sounds like he knows what he's talking about as far as the development that the club's new strengthening arm might be able to do to bring him to AFL standard.

This is a common mistake to make mate! I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to the clubs strengthening program, though I do know that Martin isn't going to be playing league matches until March 2014, so that leaves him 17 months or so to get himself a body that is capable of standing up to the requirements of AFL. Whether he ends up weighing 78kg, 84kg or 81kg in his first game he'll have had two preseasons under his belt and he'll be well prepared.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

so Gold Coast have pinched Martin from our grasp by trading pick 2 to GWS for the first pick in the mini-draft. They essentially double-screwed us meaning Melbourne get picks 3 and 4 and being able to use 26 on Viney.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

so Gold Coast have pinched Martin from our grasp by trading pick 2 to GWS for the first pick in the mini-draft. They double-screwed us meaning Melbourne get picks 3 and 4 and being able to use 26 on Viney.

Gutted!

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Gutted!

i can see him tearing us up in a few years with all of us wondering what might have been

[always right]

2012...the season that just keeps giving. We can't take a fricking trick.

[comrade]

1955 - 2012...the seasons that just keep giving. We can't take a fricking trick.

I fixed it for you.

[Mofra]

2012...the season that just keeps giving. We can't take a fricking trick.
Lachie Hunter as a 3rd round pick is a small win by all accounts

[stefoid]

Dont take it personally MJP, but I hope you suck at draftee assessment :)

[comrade]

Dont take it personally MJP, but I hope you suck at draftee assessment :)

At least mjp gets to stay in WA :D

[azabob]

Mitch Brown from W/C has requested a trade back to Victoria (St.Kilda reportedly offered a 3 year deal).

GVGjr (?) amoung others was very keen to go after him 24mths ago.

He is still only 23, but has had his injury troubles but has just won the West Coast "Bestclubman" award.

What are posters thoughts? He can defiently fill a roll as key back and possible key forward.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149354/default.aspx

[always right]

Lachie Hunter as a 3rd round pick is a small win by all accounts

Yeah....but can't say I'm feeling on top of the world with today's events. Perhaps it will all turn out for the best but we're not a club that lady luck shines on.

Huge pressure on our football department getting the picks right. Back off on the inside midfielders this year guys.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

we're not a club that lady luck shines on.


i agree! we can never seem to catch a break (although sometimes its through our own fault). But we finally land a decent no 1 pick in Cooney and what happens? He gets degenerative knee issue!

[Desipura]

Ok, enough of the "poor is me" attitude. We can only control the controllables.
Who do we pick with 5 & 6? Toumpas and Gartlett? Is Menzel worth the risk at 6?

[azabob]

Ok, enough of the "poor is me" attitude. We can only control the controllables.
Who do we pick with 5 & 6? Toumpas and Gartlett? Is Menzel worth the risk at 6?

Well said Desi.

I think we need to look at someone like a Gartlett (pace, line breaking ability, good disposal).

[Dog54]

Mitch Brown from W/C has requested a trade back to Victoria (St.Kilda reportedly offered a 3 year deal).

GVGjr (?) amoung others was very keen to go after him 24mths ago.

He is still only 23, but has had his injury troubles but has just won the West Coast "Bestclubman" award.

What are posters thoughts? He can defiently fill a roll as key back and possible key forward.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149354/default.aspx

We should offload Lake secure Brown and maybe get 3 1st round picks! I think he is worth 2nd round at best and we could get Hawthorns first round pick for Lake.

Thoughts ?

[Desipura]

We should offload Lake secure Brown and maybe get 3 1st round picks! I think he is worth 2nd round at best and we could get Hawthorns first round pick for Lake.

Thoughts ?
It is good lateral thinking. I would hope we look at all scenarios that can give us as many first round picks as we can get. We would address our ageing backline issues if we landed Brown.
Would Hawthorn do it though?

[Ghost Dog]

Far out, we really owe the Western Bulldogs fatherhood club a great deal in terms of silver linings this and last year. Wallis, Libba, Cordy, Hunter.

[azabob]

We should offload Lake secure Brown and maybe get 3 1st round picks! I think he is worth 2nd round at best and we could get Hawthorns first round pick for Lake.

Thoughts ?

Im not too keen on trading out Lake. I agree a early second round pick for Brown is what he is worth.

[KT31]

Ok, enough of the "poor is me" attitude. We can only control the controllables.
Who do we pick with 5 & 6? Toumpas and Gartlett? Is Menzel worth the risk at 6?

Well said Desi.

[Remi Moses]

Quite simply we didn't suck enough to get Martin.
That 's the system we're in.Obviously GC and Clayton had a thing for young Jack and hence why we offered two picks.Be interesting if Melbourne are competing withGC at the top end that Clayton looks clever. Surprised he blinked to be honest

[always right]

We should offload Lake secure Brown and maybe get 3 1st round picks! I think he is worth 2nd round at best and we could get Hawthorns first round pick for Lake.

Thoughts ?

I don't rate Brown at all.......but that's just me.

[always right]

Ok, enough of the "poor is me" attitude. We can only control the controllables.
Who do we pick with 5 & 6? Toumpas and Gartlett? Is Menzel worth the risk at 6?

Okay...I'll HTFU:o

Not sure about Menzel. Massive risk and could end up like the current day Cooney. I'd prefer we went a little safer.

[strebla]

Okay...I'll HTFU:o

Not sure about Menzel. Massive risk and could end up like the current day Cooney. I'd prefer we went a little safer.

Not interested in going safe look at J Selwood if Menzel is the best I say do it !!!!!

[Remi Moses]

I don't rate Brown at all.......but that's just me.

Agree on Brown. He can't get on the park either

[LostDoggy]

I feel better with the "poor is me" attitude .... especially after the crap that has been dished ourt way by the AFL.

Seeing the dream run that Melbourne has had today, it makes me even shittier that they received 2 compensation picks for Scully when we only received 1 compensation pick for Ward who was GWS capatain and won their B&F.

[Dry Rot]

If there's speculation that we are interested in Dawes for our second rounder (#27?), I wonder if his old coach might be interested in him too?

Carlton could get Lake and Dawes for their pick 11:

We pay a chunk of Lake's wage and give our pick #27.

Pick #27 ontraded to the Pies for Dawes.

Carlton get Lake and Dawes.

We get pick #11.

Thoughts?

[Ghost Dog]

I feel better with the "poor is me" attitude .... especially after the crap that has been dished ourt way by the AFL.

Seeing the dream run that Melbourne has had today, it makes me even shittier that they received 2 compensation picks for Scully when we only received 1 compensation pick for Ward who was GWS capatain and won their B&F.

Imagine being an Adelaide supporter. They've been pretty well shafted by the new clubs and free agency.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Imagine being an Adelaide supporter. They've been pretty well shafted by the new clubs and free agency.

yeah but they won the '97 prelim :p :(

[LostDoggy]

Still haven't learnt all the FA rules, so after 5pm today Minson is essentially ours next year unless he goes in the PSD?

[KT31]

Imagine being an Adelaide supporter. They've been pretty well shafted by the new clubs and free agency.

Can't shut enough of my brain down for it to happen.:D

[LostDoggy]

Imagine being an Adelaide supporter. They've been pretty well shafted by the new clubs and free agency.

I can't imagine myself being a cross between a Conehead and Cyclops.

[LongWait]

Emma Quayle has retweeted that Lake to Hawthorn for first round pick paperwork being completed now.

Source: Michael Gleeson of Age.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Emma Quayle has retweeted that Lake to Hawthorn for first round pick paperwork being completed now.

Source: Michael Gleeson of Age.

surely this is a joke! a first-round pick!? Hawthorns first round pick, ie 21 for Lake!!? Have we gone mad?

[LostDoggy]

Lake is gone.

[LostDoggy]

Trade radio confirmed this too. Makes sense. Well done to Brian on his career at Bulldogs and hope he gets a premiership at Hawks. Deal confirmed as P21 and 41 for our 27 and Lake. Not exceptional but not terrible - although given I floated this deal a few pages back and was howled down, I look forward to hearing the poster's here response. :-)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Trade radio confirmed this too. Makes sense. Well done to Brian on his career at Bulldogs and hope he gets a premiership at Hawks. Deal confirmed as P21 and 41 for our 27 and Lake. Not exceptional but not terrible - although given I floated this deal a few pages back and was howled down, I look forward to hearing the poster's here response. :-)

i still think its a horrible trade for us. Why did we even have to throw in pick 27?? Makes no sense to me at all

[Desipura]

i still think its a horrible trade for us. Why did we even have to throw in pick 27?? Makes no sense to me at all

Maybe the Hawks have taken over the remainder of his contract with us.

[Hotdog60]

You would hope that the Hawks are picking up what's left of Brian's contract and we are not paying part.

[strebla]

Maybe the Hawks have taken over the remainder of his contract with us.

As long as we are not paying anything for him next year I can live with it. JUST!!!!

[Bulldog4life]

i still think its a horrible trade for us. Why did we even have to throw in pick 27?? Makes no sense to me at all

We get a first round draft pick and a second round draft pick in exchange for Lake and a second round draft pick. Brian has got a couple of years left and wanted to leave by all accounts. A fair trade.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Maybe the Hawks have taken over the remainder of his contract with us.

this would make a little more sense

[LostDoggy]

i still think its a horrible trade for us. Why did we even have to throw in pick 27?? Makes no sense to me at all

I don't think its horrible but not as good as it could have been. For instance, we could have tried to downgrade P27 to a lower 2nd pick for say a Stevens or a Gumbleton or a Hooker and then trade it on (not unlike what we did with Akermanis and Hudson trades?), but that would be expecting a bit much from our guys (hey its Fantasia and a greenstick list manager after all)....but we have to understand we probably would have lost Lake for nearly nix due to Free Agency next year. Its not great, not terrible, but it could have been a little better with a bit more creativity.

[Desipura]

As long as we are not paying anything for him next year I can live with it. JUST!!!!
At 30yo and us more than likely to struggle again next year, do you honestly think Brian's heart will be in it. I think he would go through the motions.
Lets give a game to a player that knows he has more than 1 to 2 years at the club and let him develop with the rest of the playing list.

[Mofra]

I don't think its horrible but not as good as it could have been.
Bingo - we've pulled the trigger on day 1 of a 3 week trading period, and many of us are not convinced it's the best deal we could have gotten.

[strebla]

At 30yo and us more than likely to struggle again next year, do you honestly think Brian's heart will be in it. I think he would go through the motions.
Lets give a game to a player that knows he has more than 1 to 2 years at the club and let him develop with the rest of the playing list.

Not disagreeing here Desi just hope we are not paying him would much rather front end some of our kids to have some cap room in a couple of years when our window opens.

[chef]

Maybe the Hawks have taken over the remainder of his contract with us.

Wasn't his contract back ended so he was on something like $700K this year?

[LostDoggy]

Bingo - we've pulled the trigger on day 1 of a 3 week trading period, and many of us are not convinced it's the best deal we could have gotten.

Yeah you may be right, but remember Hawks would have been exploring other options too eg. Brown for WCE, Hooker or Pears at Bombers, but a lower second round pick say in the 30's if we could have engineered it would have been better.

[ReLoad]

Wasn't his contract back ended so he was on something like $700K this year?

I heard 650k. Either way its a huge financial win for us. basically Hawthorn is going to pay for his last 2 years playing for us. Thanks Hawthorn.

[Hotdog60]

We currently have 10 draft picks available.
Picks :-
5
6
21
41
46 Lachie Hunter
47
65
83
101
119

How many of our current rookies do you think will get a senior spot?

Mark Austin
Tom Campbell
Alex Greenwood
Jason Johannisen
Lin Jong
Jack Redpath

[comrade]

Bingo - we've pulled the trigger on day 1 of a 3 week trading period, and many of us are not convinced it's the best deal we could have gotten.

Is it likely we want to use that pick in a trade?

[Bulldog4life]

Is it likely we want to use that pick in a trade?

Good point Comrade. Better to have it ready to use that be wanting it later. Maybe Hawks would have got Brown from WC bv then. Who knows.

[LongWait]

Is it likely we want to use that pick in a trade?

Would Hawthorn have used pick 21 in a trade over the next day or two?

If we knew that Lake is going to Hawthorn either now or in a year and we missed out on pick 21 because we tried to get a better deal we would have shot ourselves in the foot.

Knowing Lake is going to the Hawks sooner or later, we had no real choice but to do a trade this year in my view.

[LostDoggy]

How many of our current rookies do you think will get a senior spot?

Mark Austin
Tom Campbell
Alex Greenwood
Jason Johannisen
Lin Jong
Jack Redpath


JJ gets one for sure, without Lake i'm guessing Austin will as well. Maybe Campbell
The other 4 are still eligible for another year i believe, can leave an empty spot on the senior list and see if they deserve it. No point James Mulliganing it again

I'm sure we've known about Lake leaving for at least a few weeks and have been talking to Hawthorn for longer that 4 hours as well

[Bulldog Revolution]

JJ and Campbell and the rest have to earn their upgrades, although maybe you are right Austin may get up also with Lake going

Jong is the other rookie player who I have high hopes for. Given his rawness I enjoyed his courage, ability to find the footy, and skills in tight. And he just seemed to get better and better - was very good when I saw him at VFL level

[Hotdog60]

Good point Comrade. Better to have it ready to use that be wanting it later. Maybe Hawks would have got Brown from WC bv then. Who knows.

Swans are having trouble getting the Tippett deal done and may call in for help with other clubs. Is there someone we would like to get to help the swans, depends on how hard they want to go for Tippett.

[Maddog37]

Any whispers regarding Sherman?


Also I would upgrade Jong, JJ and Campbell. Austin I like but not sure on his durability.

[comrade]

Swans are having trouble getting the Tippett deal done and may call in for help with other clubs. Is there someone we would like to get to help the swans, depends on how hard they want to go for Tippett.

They've got plenty of young talent we could enquire about. Gary Rohan?

[bornadog]

Any whispers regarding Sherman?


Also I would upgrade Jong, JJ and Campbell. Austin I like but not sure on his durability.

I agree, Jong showed a lot as an 18 year old, lots of guts and willing to get in there. I see Austin as the future replacement for Morris, so will depend on how Morris pulls up. If Morris goes back on the LTIL, then Austin will get an upgrade again in 2013.

[LongWait]

I heard 650k. Either way its a huge financial win for us. basically Hawthorn is going to pay for his last 2 years playing for us. Thanks Hawthorn.

I guess the silver lining here, if there is one, is that Minson or some of the younger players can now have a heavily front-ended contract to help us attack GWS and Gold Coast when their youngsters come out of contract at the end of next season.

[GVGjr]

I guess the silver lining here, if there is one, is that Minson or some of the younger players can now have a heavily front-ended contract to help us attack GWS and Gold Coast when their youngsters come out of contract at the end of next season.

Based on what I have heard so far I think trading Lake was the wrong thing to do but with his huge contract it does give us some great list management opportunities.
We can front load some contracts and set ourselves up nicely for the next few seasons.

[G-Mo77]

I heard 650k. Either way its a huge financial win for us. basically Hawthorn is going to pay for his last 2 years playing for us. Thanks Hawthorn.

He was only contracted for 1 more season. Unrestricted FA after 2013.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Based on what I have heard so far I think trading Lake was the wrong thing to do but with his huge contract it does give us some great list management opportunities.
We can front load some contracts and set ourselves up nicely for the next few seasons.
We now have 6 draft picks in the top 50 which can only be good for the future. Lake is a loss but doesn't warrant the contract he is now getting.

[Dry Rot]

We now have 6 draft picks in the top 50 which can only be good for the future. Lake is a loss but doesn't warrant the contract he is now getting.

Hm, Cooney?

[LongWait]

Hm, Cooney?

Good point.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Hm, Cooney?

I would put Cooney in the same bracket. They commanded top money when at their top which has regrettably now passed them by.

[Dry Rot]

Hm, Cooney?


Good point.


I would put Cooney in the same bracket. They commanded top money when at their top which has regrettably now passed them by.

OK, we have escaped Lake's back ended contract.

Frankly, Cooney has had 2 seasons to show show he is over his knee, and hasn't. It's a tragedy, but IMO we should pay him out and roll the dice with a 10% chance late pick.

Like lake, he would probably be gone end 2013.

Do we have an "Elephant in the Room" Board for this? ;)

[Ghost Dog]

Can I clarify? did the Hawks pay it out? Lake's contract...

[SlimPickens]

Can I clarify? did the Hawks pay it out? Lake's contract...

No he signed a new contract with Hawthorn meaning the contract with the dogs was ripped up. We won't be paying any of Brian's salary next year.

[Ghost Dog]

No he signed a new contract with Hawthorn meaning the contract with the dogs was ripped up. We won't be paying any of Brian's salary next year.

Cheers Slim. Well, there's a wad of cash right there.

[azabob]

Cheers Slim. Well, there's a wad of cash right there.

Which can cause it's own type of problems, as in paying the minimum % of the salary cap. The obvious is to front load / re-write a few contracts, but still tricky business.

[bornadog]

David Rodan and Jacob Surjan are just two of seven Port delistings today.

[BulldogBelle]

Geez, unless Surjan's knee (?) has given out, he'd be a great pickup for a team in finals contention.

Shame about Rodan too. Loved watching him play. Great agility

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Geez, unless Surjan's knee (?) has given out, he'd be a great pickup for a team in finals contention.

Shame about Rodan too. Loved watching him play. Great agility

Surjan's never been anyhing more than an average player IMO. He attacks the contest/man hard, but that's about it.

No better than Addison.

[Hotdog60]

If a player has been delisted can you pick them up for nothing?

I'm thinking of Roden, strong player maybe a stop gap while our kids develop. But at 29 I don't want to give anything up for him.

[bornadog]

If a player has been delisted can you pick them up for nothing?

I'm thinking of Roden, strong player maybe a stop gap while our kids develop. But at 29 I don't want to give anything up for him.

Yeah surprised they would let him go, but at 29, no thanks.

[Hotdog60]

Yeah surprised they would let him go, but at 29, no thanks.

Yeah, I just looked at his stats for the year and he has been quite.

[Axe Man]

If a player has been delisted can you pick them up for nothing?


Yes, delisted players automatically become free agents I believe.

[lemmon]

Little bit of chat Geelongs Mitch Brown may want out. Id definitley be more keen on him than on say a Scott Gumbleton

[LostDoggy]

Little bit of chat Geelongs Mitch Brown may want out. Id definitley be more keen on him than on say a Scott Gumbleton

I have never heard of him? We have suffered enough experimental trades with with Geelong.

Tim Callan
Nathan Djerrura
Brody Moles
Peter Street

[LostDoggy]

Little bit of chat Geelongs Mitch Brown may want out. Id definitley be more keen on him than on say a Scott Gumbleton

Would love to see him at our club, Pick 21? Don't think Geelong would let him go that cheap though.

[lemmon]

I have never heard of him? We have suffered enough experimental trades with with Geelong.

Tim Callan
Nathan Djerrura
Brody Moles
Peter Street

Totally different circumstance, Brown was a high draft pick, had a lot of injuries, has been behind Pods and Hawkins. Only about 21 as well

[comrade]

Would love to see him at our club, Pick 21? Don't think Geelong would let him go that cheap though.

I'm not sure why they'd expect much? He's barely played since he got to there.

[Axe Man]

Totally different circumstance, Brown was a high draft pick, had a lot of injuries, has been behind Pods and Hawkins. Only about 21 as well

Not disagreeing with you but not sure the draft position is all that relevant:

Brown Pick 15
Street Pick 17
DJ Pick 25

[LostDoggy]

Ah well, Gumby with a late pick or the PSD.
Fact is he's actually a better prospect than Dawes except of course for the big issue of his fitness.

I'm really starting to dislike Melbourne - WTF are they up to??
Paying over the odds for just about everything this week and really looking desperate!

[LostDoggy]

Melbourne are like an ugly bloke full of piss and money at ugly hour at 2.00am in a King St nightclub. The pros just take their money....GWS and now the Pies are laughing all the way to the bank. Neeld has lost many players it seems and needs new ones....also needs a modicum of success to get renewed.

We on the other hand have dodged the Dawes bullet, now just play it cool, look at Jacobs, Gumby (PSD - stuff Essendon), Mitch Brown (P41 or nothing and we'll go him next year in PSD when he comes out of contract, stuff Geelong they have reamed us over the years).

Time to become the mysterious man at the bar who picks up...

[stefoid]

Ah well, Gumby with a late pick or the PSD.
Fact is he's actually a better prospect than Dawes except of course for the big issue of his fitness.

I'm really starting to dislike Melbourne - WTF are they up to??
Paying over the odds for just about everything this week and really looking desperate!

If it wasnt for Melbourne, that would be us, so thank god for the dees I say.

Now we just need to get Shermo in the black and white stripes for an upgrade to pick 17

[DOG GOD]

Now we just need to get Shermo in the black and white stripes for an upgrade to pick 17

Now THAT would be awesome!!!!

[azabob]

I have never heard of him? We have suffered enough experimental trades with with Geelong.

Tim Callan
Nathan Djerrura
Brody Moles
Peter Street

So because you have never heard of him automatically makes him no good?:confused:

[westdog54]

Yes, delisted players automatically become free agents I believe.

Correct, automatically becomes an unrestricted free agent.

[LongWait]

Ah well, Gumby with a late pick or the PSD.
Fact is he's actually a better prospect than Dawes except of course for the big issue of his fitness.

I'm really starting to dislike Melbourne - WTF are they up to??
Paying over the odds for just about everything this week and really looking desperate!

My money would be on Gumbleton at Fremantle: he's a homesick Perth lad.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

My biggest concern with Gumby isn't so much his injury past, it's the fact that he's got back problems that are inconsistent on a day to day basis.

I've got them myself; some days you're fine, others you're in pain.

Apparently Gumby did a medical with Carlton, failed it, then a day or two later did the same medical test with Fremantle, and passed it. IIRC he almost gave the game away last year because of his back?

Anyway, if this can be fixed - or if the above is BS - then I am fine with us getting Gumby on the cheap.

[LostDoggy]

I am hoping we can get a little clever and start forcing clubs' hands so from here on I am hoping in order of priority:

1 - We keep 5,6 and 21 and only offer these to improve our draft position
2 - We go after C Young - we have the money, he would help us for pace and he is free. It also forces the Pies to look elsewhere for pace to replace Wellingham. Young is not in the age profile but he is free and in an age bracket we simply have very few players in.
3 - We offer Sherman and P21 to Collingwood for P17 or 18 for P21 and/or:
4 - We offer Sherman (or Pick 47) and P41 to Port (who need picks and players) for Jacobs who is going to Melbourne anyway, is a good kick and this is something we need desperately
5 - We get Gumby in the PSD for nothing
6 - We offer 47 for Mitch Brown

Net outcome:

We keep or improve our first round picks
We get a runner in Young for nothing
We get a KPF in Gumby for nothing

As a bonus we get:

We either get a pick upgrade or Jacobs (a good kicker)
We possibly land another promising forward in Brown.

This would be nice...

[KT31]

Why would any team want Sherman, what has he proven in the last year or so.

[Dogmatic]

I actually think Sherman isn't a bad player. He goes in hard, he has some pace and he can kick goals. He was obviously not in favor this year, but I haven't given up on him yet. He's better than many others in our team and at least has some pace, which we desperately lack. I hope he can turn it around.

[jeemak]

Thing is though, when a new coach and direction comes along there's going to be some collateral damage in the form of reasonable or good players that don't fit the plan.

It can be a bit unreasonable when it comes to the assessment of these types of players, but when rebuilding a list hard decisions need to be made. Players in Sherman's position don't get the opportunities they might under different circumstances, and they sometimes react to that poorly and often end up very much maligned by the match committee and the supporter base.

Sherman played some very good football for us last year though, and his only chance of being a required player for us going forwards is if he can take the steps to modify his game to the extent the coaching staff need him to, or we start moving the ball well enough for players like him to finish off good work and become useful as a result.

For mine, I'm not convinced things will work out for him with respect to the former or the latter, and if he's still on our list in 2013 he'll be treading water.

[Sedat]

You can't teach good decision-making, especially on a player who has spent 8 years in the system and has been a dreadful decision-maker his entire AFL career.

How handy would the Harbrow compensation pick have been if we he onto it until this draft :(

[Topdog]

You can't teach good decision-making, especially on a player who has spent 8 years in the system and has been a dreadful decision-maker his entire AFL career.

How handy would the Harbrow compensation pick have been if we he onto it until this draft :(

or even waited til next draft - actually the Ward one next year would have been good too. We'll be bottom 4 next year with Melb not getting a compo pick

[stefoid]

You can't teach good decision-making, especially on a player who has spent 8 years in the system and has been a dreadful decision-maker his entire AFL career.

How handy would the Harbrow compensation pick have been if we he onto it until this draft :(

very very?

[strebla]

I have never heard of him? We have suffered enough experimental trades with with Geelong.

Tim Callan
Nathan Djerrura
Brody Moles
Peter Street

Ok I hear you but what about Mathew Robbins he was a gun pick up from the Cattery !!!!!!

[Hotdog60]

From the AFL site. LINK (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149616/default.aspx)

Could be worth a rookie look if we are chasing hard players with good skills.

BRADY Jones

A tough, inside midfielder at 183cm and 79kg and boasting a penetrating kick, Jones handled the move from bush footy to the state's best competition with aplomb

His management, Velocity Sports, is confident Jones will be a late selection in this year’s NAB AFL Draft, or at least snapped up in the rookie draft.

If he misses out completely, Jones says he would consider moving to Victoria to play in the VFL.

Sanders, though, believes AFL clubs requiring a midfielder who can provide inside grunt, coupled with a laser-like right boot and huge scope for improvement, should take a chance on Jones this year, not next.

"It's probably too early to tell [if he might get drafted] but if a club's after a tough inside midfielder who kicks it well, he could sneak onto a list or maybe be rookied. He'll leave no stone unturned to make the most of it, that's for sure," Sanders said.

[LostDoggy]

From the AFL site. LINK (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149616/default.aspx)

Could be worth a rookie look if we are chasing hard players with good skills.

BRADY Jones

A tough, inside midfielder at 183cm and 79kg and boasting a penetrating kick, Jones handled the move from bush footy to the state's best competition with aplomb

His management, Velocity Sports, is confident Jones will be a late selection in this year’s NAB AFL Draft, or at least snapped up in the rookie draft.

If he misses out completely, Jones says he would consider moving to Victoria to play in the VFL.

Sanders, though, believes AFL clubs requiring a midfielder who can provide inside grunt, coupled with a laser-like right boot and huge scope for improvement, should take a chance on Jones this year, not next.

"It's probably too early to tell [if he might get drafted] but if a club's after a tough inside midfielder who kicks it well, he could sneak onto a list or maybe be rookied. He'll leave no stone unturned to make the most of it, that's for sure," Sanders said.

From my home town in Tasmania. Very talented sportsman by all reports, although I don't think I ever saw him play footy down there.

[Dry Rot]

If we could do it, would it be really worth upgrading pick 21 to say pick 16?

[DOG GOD]

If we could do it, would it be really worth upgrading pick 21 to say pick 16?

I'd say yes Dry Rot, but making it happen would be another issue :)

[Dry Rot]

I'd say yes Dry Rot, but making it happen would be another issue :)

Dogs give Grant + pick 21


Pies give Pick 17

[azabob]

Dogs give Grant + pick 21


Pies give Pick 17

Do you agree Grant has ability? His issue is consistency or for you is it something else?

[Dry Rot]

Do you agree Grant has ability? His issue is consistency or for you is it something else?

Been five years in the system IIRC. Lacks intensity among other things. Would entertain a trade for him.

[DOG GOD]

I'd also entertain to trade him out if it meant getting a pick in the teens.

[AndrewP6]

I'd do it in a second. I'm sure Rocket would love him back;)

He's had his chance, in my book.

[LostDoggy]

Yes a pick in the teens for Grant yet we don't think Dawes is worth 21.

[AndrewP6]

Yes a pick in the teens for Grant yet we don't think Dawes is worth 21.

True,don't see it happening, but I'd like it!

[Desipura]

I thought Dry Rot was proposing giving the pies Grant and pick 21 for the pies pick 16.
I don't think he is saying pick 16 for Grant.

[Pickenitup]

It would be a Huge Mistake if we Traded Grant.
I know he has had 5 years at Our Club but remeber first year had the injury which
kept him out for the season he is only 23 just think he needs a bit of confidence and Granty
will be okay.

[BulldogBelle]

It would be a Huge Mistake if we Traded Grant.
I know he has had 5 years at Our Club but remeber first year had the injury which
kept him out for the season he is only 23 just think he needs a bit of confidence and Granty
will be okay.

Completely agree, there are few players with his ability and composure to finish on both feet. Very clinical. He may lack intensity, but if we can keep developing him he has the attributes to be a very good player!

[Dry Rot]

I thought Dry Rot was proposing giving the pies Grant and pick 21 for the pies pick 16.
I don't think he is saying pick 16 for Grant.

Correct.

[1eyedog]

Completely agree, there are few players with his ability and composure to finish on both feet. Very clinical. He may lack intensity, but if we can keep developing him he has the attributes to be a very good player!

Agreed. Not all players have a high level of intensity, I'm not sure all players are expected to. Specific players have specific roles, strengths and weaknesses, a high level of intensity is not one of Grant's. I wouldn't even call Bob Murphy a player with an ultra high intensity rate when the opposition have the ball.

Gifted players who read space well and are quick should not charging head first into packs or chasing down every single man at 100% until the ball is out of their sphere of influence, there are role players for that IMO, e.g. defensive forwards. I agree that Macca has tried to instigate a bit of this in Grant's game but one of Grant's main roles, as far as I can see it, is to take advantage of the grunt work of others and to get on the end of turn overs. Grant is a good finisher when he is not taking a set shot and needs to be well positioned to kick the goal and/or assist in the goal. Running around after every bloke with the ball will not allow him to be in this position often enough to be effective.

I reckon Grant will be a good player next season. I'd hate to cut him loose without one last look at him, there is too much upside for me.

[always right]

He's been disappointing so far but he is one of very few in our club with some x-factor. I think we can afford to keep him. Would hate to see him turn it on against us.

[LostDoggy]

He's been disappointing so far but he is one of very few in our club with some x-factor. I think we can afford to keep him. Would hate to see him turn it on against us.

Yep, would rather see Sherman go instead.

[w3design]

If we could do it, would it be really worth upgrading pick 21 to say pick 16?

Dependent on who we trade of course, but an upgrade into the mid teens could make this draft for us, when coupled with picks 5 & 6 plus Hunter.
We should move heaven and earth to achieve this option.

[GVGjr]

Dogs give Grant + pick 21


Pies give Pick 17

Who is at around pick 17 that you think warrants this move? Or is it just a case that you want to jettison Grant?

[strebla]

Who is at around pick 17 that you think warrants this move? Or is it just a case that you want to jettison Grant?

Thats the point isn't it is there a player we want who the club thinks won't last until 21 otherwise not worth it. I still think Grant deserves another chance and would hate to lose him.

[Dry Rot]

Who is at around pick 17 that you think warrants this move? Or is it just a case that you want to jettison Grant?

No particular one, and yes we could pick a real dud at #17.

However, I've read on on a few forums that interesting picks could fall lower in this draft.

And maybe worth picking up.

The other side of the equation, I see Grant as another Clayton pick # first round cluster ****.

[Desipura]

Who is at around pick 17 that you think warrants this move? Or is it just a case that you want to jettison Grant?

We can then give them pick 17 back for Dawes :D No thanks.

[FrediKanoute]

Dogs give Grant + pick 21


Pies give Pick 17

Madness!!!!! Grant remains our best tallish forward option. He is a better footballer than Jones and if we give him away now he willl blossom as a player into a gun. Put him alongside a decent tall forward and he will deliver.

I'm not convinved its intencity with Grant, more a combination of expectation and an inablity to put on size.

[always right]

Dependent on who we trade of course, but an upgrade into the mid teens could make this draft for us, when coupled with picks 5 & 6 plus Hunter.
We should move heaven and earth to achieve this option.

As a matter of interest are there particular players you have identified that are likely to fall around this mark but are unlikely to last until pick 21?

[GVGjr]

No particular one, and yes we could pick a real dud at #17.

However, I've read on on a few forums that interesting picks could fall lower in this draft.

.

To it doesn't sound like much of a plan to move up the draft order by 4 positions unless you have someone specifically in mind. I'm guessing that you are more interested in moving Grant out than actually moving up the order.

[Throughandthrough]

To change the topic. What number pick did we not use for callan ward last year? Which player got picked up at that spot?

[bornadog]

To change the topic. What number pick did we not use for callan ward last year? Which player got picked up at that spot?

This year its pick 6 but last year it would have been pick 18. At pick 18 North took Bradley McKenzie (2 games)

[Throughandthrough]

This year its pick 6 but last year it would have been pick 18. At pick 18 North took Bradley McKenzie (2 games)

Cheers. Was a wise move by us not to go for the quick fix

[Mofra]

Madness!!!!! Grant remains our best tallish forward option. He is a better footballer than Jones and if we give him away now he willl blossom as a player into a gun. Put him alongside a decent tall forward and he will deliver.

I'm not convinved its intencity with Grant, more a combination of expectation and an inablity to put on size.
I still think Grant is a small forward - the majority of his goals are from burning off an opponent and running into goal. It's a handy trick.

[bornadog]

I still think Grant is a small forward - the majority of his goals are from burning off an opponent and running into goal. It's a handy trick.

He does have the x factor.

[stefoid]

Hmm, reading the paper today about how GWS are in the market for an experienced defender and have their first rounds picks on the table, but its hard to get someone to give up an experienced defender...

I questioned at the time the obscene haste in getting Brians papers stamped, even if just to let Hawthorn have time to think about how much they wanted Lake.

I guess we will never know what might have been, but you can think of some pretty interesting scenarios involving GWS picks 2,3,12&13 and dogs picks 5,6 & Lake

How does pick 2 for pick 6 and Lake grab you, just as an example?

[bornadog]

Hmm, reading the paper today about how GWS are in the market for an experienced defender and have their first rounds picks on the table, but its hard to get someone to give up an experienced defender...

I questioned at the time the obscene haste in getting Brians papers stamped, even if just to let Hawthorn have time to think about how much they wanted Lake.

I guess we will never know what might have been, but you can think of some pretty interesting scenarios involving GWS picks 2,3,12&13 and dogs picks 5,6 & Lake

How does pick 2 for pick 6 and Lake grab you, just as an example?

Why would Lake want to go GWS??

[Desipura]

He does have the x factor.

I'm concerned he will be an x AFL player in 12-24 months time.

[F'scary]

I'm concerned he will be an x AFL player in 12-24 months time. (Grant).

His trade value will only continue to decline with another season. Therefore trade him now.

[LostDoggy]

Grant is interesting, is he worth a pick upgrade (say 21 to 15 for example) to us? Maybe I'm a blind optimist, but Grant appears to have the sticky hands and speed to be a reasonable third forward, yeah he can't kick but hey our club clearly doesn't rate this aspect of the game ahead of other aspects (eg Boyd - a poor kicker continually wins B&Fs, and we recruited Clay Smith...).

[Dog54]

Matt Campbell from kangaroos wants to be traded. We really lack a small goal kicking target with genuine pace. I think it is worth enquiring ??? I think pick 47 would be fair.

[KT31]

Why would Lake want to go GWS??


Who knows what Brian want's, not even sure the man himself knows.

[bornadog]

Who knows what Brian want's, not even sure the man himself knows.

He said he wants to play finals.

[G-Mo77]

Matt Campbell from kangaroos wants to be traded. We really lack a small goal kicking target with genuine pace. I think it is worth enquiring ??? I think pick 47 would be fair.

We've got lower picks that I think would do the job, much lower but not interested in him at all to be honest. He's shown very little improvement over his whole career, 25 years of age and has been at AFL level for 6 years. We'd do better in the draft.

[dog town]

I fear if we lose Grant we are a fair chance to have to sit back and watch another side make him into a star. Back our development and coaching guys in. The potential of the guy is not in question.

[GVGjr]

I fear if we lose Grant we are a fair chance to have to sit back and watch another side make him into a star. Back our development and coaching guys in. The potential of the guy is not in question.

Totally agree. He has a challenge to answer but we need to give it another season to make it work.

[AndrewP6]

How many "one more year" do we give him. Five's enough,in my book. Potential only gets you so far.

[bornadog]

How many "one more year" do we give him. Five's enough,in my book. Potential only gets you so far.

What about the old adage, talls take longer to mature. He should be just about there next year.

[soupman]

(Grant).

His trade value will only continue to decline with another season. Therefore trade him now.

Sure but his trade value isn't exactly high ATM, so we don't really lose that much value should he not come on. Ie. people are discussing using him to get a 5 pick upgrade. Screw that, Grant still has the attributed to be a very good player and at times this year and certainly in past years he has shown he is more than capable. I'd rather delist him in two years saying we tried than cut our losses for a shitty pick upgrade now.

I believe Grant will make it.

[always right]

Sure but his trade value isn't exactly high ATM, so we don't really lose that much value should he not come on. Ie. people are discussing using him to get a 5 pick upgrade. Screw that, Grant still has the attributed to be a very good player and at times this year and certainly in past years he has shown he is more than capable. I'd rather delist him in two years saying we tried than cut our losses for a shitty pick upgrade now.

I believe Grant will make it.

^^^^^^^this

[1eyedog]

x2 good post

[stefoid]

Why would Lake want to go GWS??

WE'll never know, will we?

FWIW, I think he just wanted out and trundled out the old 'premiership' line. If GWS had offered a longer contract on good money, he would have taken it.

[stefoid]

Grant wont see the outside of the gym for the next 4 months, unless it is to do 10km time trials dragging a monster truck tyre.

We'll know one way or the other next year, thats for sure.

:D:D:D

[F'scary]

Grant wont see the outside of the gym for the next 4 months, unless it is to do 10km time trials dragging a monster truck tyre.

We'll know one way or the other next year, thats for sure.

:D:D:D

On the radio broadcasts of your games, the commentators call him "Skinny" Grant. Is this what you are referring to?

[stefoid]

On the radio broadcasts of your games, the commentators call him "Skinny" Grant. Is this what you are referring to?

affirmative

[LostDoggy]

I don't have 'whipping boys' normally but to me every time Grant stuffs up/doesn't do the right thing I curse. I think I do this because I know he's no good but maybe it's because any moment I expect all that 'talent' to click.

It's easy to say he doesn't work hard enough as people said about Josh Hill and Eagleton(rightly or wrongly)One things for sure though, if Grant didn't work hard enough McCartney would be showing him the door this year. So my theory is that if he's listening and learning than Macca will retain him and that's all I can ask of Grant. To keep working.

[LostDoggy]

I don't have 'whipping boys' normally but to me every time Grant stuffs up/doesn't do the right thing I curse. I think I do this because I know he's no good but maybe it's because any moment I expect all that 'talent' to click.

It's easy to say he doesn't work hard enough as people said about Josh Hill and Eagleton(rightly or wrongly)One things for sure though, if Grant didn't work hard enough McCartney would be showing him the door this year. So my theory is that if he's listening and learning than Macca will retain him and that's all I can ask of Grant. To keep working.

You lost me when you said Eagle didn't work hard, that was one thing he did exceptionally well and we have missed (I can't believe I am defending Eagle:))

Understand the frustration on Grant, but don't think we should offload him for a song, happy to see what happens with him - its part of the fun and frustration of supporting.

As insurance re Grant (and Cordy and Jones) I am wondering if our Pick 41 may end up with Geelong for Mitch Brown, and we land Gumbleton for less than that.

It doesn't appear we will get Koby Stevens if the price is a pick in the 30's, not too fussed on this one.

Hopefully we nail Pick 5 and 6 - hopefully we get fast (of mind and foot) with good penetrating kicks.

It will be interesting to compare our position to Melbourne's in say three years. If we play our cards right, we may be way in front.

[whythelongface]

Sure but his trade value isn't exactly high ATM, so we don't really lose that much value should he not come on. Ie. people are discussing using him to get a 5 pick upgrade. Screw that, Grant still has the attributed to be a very good player and at times this year and certainly in past years he has shown he is more than capable. I'd rather delist him in two years saying we tried than cut our losses for a shitty pick upgrade now.

I believe Grant will make it.

Good post. His trade value at the moment would a very low draft pick based on what he has achieved thus far, therefore we are better off holding onto him and seeing what he can achieve over the next year or two.

I am not confident that he will make it but see that there is a definite upside to his game.

[Mofra]

As insurance re Grant (and Cordy and Jones) I am wondering if our Pick 41 may end up with Geelong for Mitch Brown, and we land Gumbleton for less than that.
What do people see in Mitch Brown?

My view may be off, but all I see is Gumbleton with half the talent.

[bornadog]

We should keep all our picks in the top 50 and only trade if it improves our position. I would like to see us draft 5 new kids in that top 50

[BornInDroopSt'54]

^^^^^^^this

Yes.

[LostDoggy]

What do people see in Mitch Brown?

My view may be off, but all I see is Gumbleton with half the talent.

I think he's kicked a bag or two n the VFL, was a bit light, has been injured, and has been kept out of a strong Geelong team. Doesn't look too bad to me but I have only seen him play a little. Also KPFs take a while. But I wouldn't put him in the same bracket as Djerkurra and Moles.

But boiled down, given McCartney would know him, I would back him either way on this. Same goes for Gumbleton.

[mjp]

Grant wont see the outside of the gym for the next 4 months, unless it is to do 10km time trials dragging a monster truck tyre.

We'll know one way or the other next year, thats for sure.

:D:D:D

Awesome. We have a player who has a speed advantage over every opponent he comes up against...therefore we should lock him in a gym and make him stronger, less agile and slower.

How about recognising he will never be a 'true' key forward and let him play a complimentary role where his natural gifts can be of real benefit too us???

Grant lacks consistency of effort (during games), not size.

[Ozza]

Awesome. We have a player who has a speed advantage over every opponent he comes up against...therefore we should lock him in a gym and make him stronger, less agile and slower.

How about recognising he will never be a 'true' key forward and let him play a complimentary role where his natural gifts can be of real benefit too us???

Grant lacks consistency of effort (during games), not size.

I agree with this.

His speed and good hands are his weapons. I'd just like to see him given a good run at playing close to goal. The way that all of the players invariably work all the way up into defence is very frustrating - but Grant is one who could take advantage of this with his speed getting him free out the back once we get the footy.

When I think of Grant's positives - I think about him taking 4 bounces running away from Collingwood midfielders a couple of years back. We should be using him on the 'fast break' (sorry to use a b'ball term) - and also his speed and hands as an inside 50 leading target IMO.

[Mofra]

Agree with mjp - he's a very good small forward despite his height

[Charlie the Wonder Dog]

I agree with this.

His speed and good hands are his weapons. I'd just like to see him given a good run at playing close to goal. The way that all of the players invariably work all the way up into defence is very frustrating - but Grant is one who could take advantage of this with his speed getting him free out the back once we get the footy.

When I think of Grant's positives - I think about him taking 4 bounces running away from Collingwood midfielders a couple of years back. We should be using him on the 'fast break' (sorry to use a b'ball term) - and also his speed and hands as an inside 50 leading target IMO.

Ahh I remember that day so vividly, us getting belted for three quarters, me and a mate standing amongst the hordes of collingwood ferals and Jarrad giving me a reason to yell and celebrate.:)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

mjp is spot on.

Not sure why we continually try to make Grant into something he's not.

He does need to improve his effort, but I wish we'd back him in as that quick 'small' forward rather than yell, scream and abuse him for not playing like Hawkins.

[1eyedog]

Agree with mjp - he's a very good small forward despite his height

Yes agreed but he has the added ability at 6'4 to outmark the players he'll play on as a quick small forward.

Remarkable attributes really.

[Axe Man]

Perhaps Grant would be better served trying to build an elite tank rather than worrying too much about bulk. This would enable him to play a sort of Nick Riewoldt like role, pushing up the ground and sprinting back into the open fifty and burning off his opponent in the process (not saying he would or could play the same as Riewoldt, only referring to his running patterns).

[always right]

We have so many players of a similar ilk...with Dahlhaus and Griff probably the exceptions. Grant represents a type of player we are in short supply of so rather than give up on him and receive stuff all in return, I would like to see us perservere with him. He has unique attributes.

[LostDoggy]

Cheers. Was a wise move by us not to go for the quick fix

Brad McKenzie is the type of player we should be going for IMO in this draft.

He is from SA and is an elite kick and North are looking for him to play the HB quarterback role.
They were quoted at the time as picking him up as he was the best kick in the draft. He is a bit light on but North have looked at him as a long term prospect. He went with Jack Ziebel over to Colorado to put more time into his physical development whilst Ziebel was suspended during the season.

I dont see him as a wasted pick or a quick fix. In some ways I wish we had picked him up instead of Clay Smith.

[Mofra]

Perhaps Grant would be better served trying to build an elite tank rather than worrying too much about bulk. This would enable him to play a sort of Nick Riewoldt like role, pushing up the ground and sprinting back into the open fifty and burning off his opponent in the process (not saying he would or could play the same as Riewoldt, only referring to his running patterns).
That sounds like Sydney's forward structure - the double back and run onto the ball seemed to be a hallmark feature of their style of play.

[1eyedog]

That sounds like Sydney's forward structure - the double back and run onto the ball seemed to be a hallmark feature of their style of play.

Pagan's paddock?

[Mitcha]

Brad McKenzie is the type of player we should be going for IMO in this draft.

He is from SA and is an elite kick and North are looking for him to play the HB quarterback role.
They were quoted at the time as picking him up as he was the best kick in the draft. He is a bit light on but North have looked at him as a long term prospect. He went with Jack Ziebel over to Colorado to put more time into his physical development whilst Ziebel was suspended during the season.

I dont see him as a wasted pick or a quick fix. In some ways I wish we had picked him up instead of Clay Smith.
Christian Howard says hello.

[Raw Toast]

I still think Grant is a small forward - the majority of his goals are from burning off an opponent and running into goal. It's a handy trick.

I've said it before, but Grant is still the best crumber at the club. From media comments earlier in the year, BMac appeared to want him to get strong enough to stay in the contest longer.

I'd be happy for him to have Murphy as a role-model - he's built up strength without sacrificing run, speed or agility. While Grant is not as good a kick as Murphy, he's also shown promise as a forward who can lead up the wings, which is vital for us. I know Murphy is supposed to play up forward for us in 2013, but Grant could still add value playing a Milne-type role (roaming pretty far and wide while working to get back to forward 50 contests and rove the packs and being able to lead and mark a bit in the 50 as well).

Suffice to say, I don't want us to trade him for peanuts, which is likely to be his market worth at the moment.

[Desipura]

AFL website reporting that Koby Stevens to decide within 24 hours which one of Bulldogs, Bombers or Saints he wants to play with.
Bombers have pick 32 and the Saints have 24 & 34 in the 2nd round which would be too high a pick for Stevens.

It will be interesting how it plays out as 41 could be the pick we offer for Gumbleton if we decide to entice him over with a longer contract.
All 3 teams 3rd round picks are close to one another, 43 Saints, 47 Dogs and 48 Bombers.
It will come down to who he nominates as it generally does.

[azabob]

AFL website reporting that Koby Stevens to decide within 24 hours which one of Bulldogs, Bombers or Saints he wants to play with.
I would think WCE would want nothing less than our pick 41.
It will be interesting how it plays out as 41 could be the pick we offer for Gumbleton if we decide to entice him over with a longer contract.

To get Gumbleton (which I don't think is a good move) I'd imagine we would need to give up more than pick 41.

[GVGjr]

To get Gumbleton (which I don't think is a good move) I'd imagine we would need to give up more than pick 41.

I disagree. I think 41 would be about their asking price. The discussion might be more around if we could get then to take something later although I don't think it's going to happen.

West Coast I think would want pick 21 for Stevens.

[stefoid]

Awesome. We have a player who has a speed advantage over every opponent he comes up against...therefore we should lock him in a gym and make him stronger, less agile and slower.

How about recognising he will never be a 'true' key forward and let him play a complimentary role where his natural gifts can be of real benefit too us???

Grant lacks consistency of effort (during games), not size.

Whatever works, but given his 4 week holiday from footy this season, the preseason will probably be the same.

[Desipura]

I disagree. I think 41 would be about their asking price. The discussion might be more around if we could get then to take something later although I don't think it's going to happen.

West Coast I think would want pick 21 for Stevens.

21 for Stevens? Dawes was at least a regular in the pies side. No way would I give away pick 21.
Let him go to the Saints for pick 24 or the Bombers at pick 32.

[G-Mo77]

West Coast I think would want pick 21 for Stevens.

Pick in the 30s. I think it was their list manager mentioned that on Trade Radio.

[GVGjr]

Pick in the 30s. I think it was their list manager mentioned that on Trade Radio.


Fair enough. He is not within our range then.

[Desipura]

Fair enough. He is not within our range then.

If he has a strong desire to come to us, that could work in our favor.

[azabob]

I disagree. I think 41 would be about their asking price. The discussion might be more around if we could get then to take something later although I don't think it's going to happen.

West Coast I think would want pick 21 for Stevens.

I'd be surprised if Essendon would be that reasonable.

Only time will tell.

[GVGjr]

I'd be surprised if Essendon would be that reasonable.

Only time will tell.

Of course they would ask for 21 but knowing full well they wouldn't get it.
I think they would settle for 41 unless they think he will take their one year offer.

I'm not sure we will make a play for him or not but pick 21 shouldn't be a consideration.

[LostDoggy]

Christian Howard says hello.

Too easy to make that comparison.
Does that mean that being from SA and a good kick makes the 2 players the same?
I dont think that Howard played in the SA U/18 Rep team, unlike McKenzie.
What about Plowman? Are you going to say he will be the same as Howard as he appears to be a good kick and will play off HB if we draft him?

[Doc26]

I disagree. I think 41 would be about their asking price. The discussion might be more around if we could get then to take something later although I don't think it's going to happen.

West Coast I think would want pick 21 for Stevens.


Pick in the 30s. I think it was their list manager mentioned that on Trade Radio.

I heard Craig Vozzo mention something similar G-Mo although to be fair he was lead by Damian Barrett with his response, who had asked him something like "would it take a pick somewhere in the 30s ?" To which Vozzo's response was something like "that would be about right"

Heard tonight on radio during trek home, think it was from Mark Fine, state that StKilda had stepped away from any interest in Stevens. Maybe just some game playing to get Mitch Brown back on table for Cripps.

[w3design]

Gumbleton is pretty clearly worth pick 21 on potential. However in the real world his risk downside says a pick about mid 40's is all you would want to chance on him. Essendon has a hard and well earned reputation for grossly overvaluing their players in a trade situation. So you would not expect their desires and requirements to be even vaguely realistic.

As for Grant, I for one don't see that he will ever have a body that is a match for his height. He will never have even a Lake type build, let alone a Baz type, no matter how much time he spends in the gym.
Anyway for mine his problem is psychological, not physical anyway. He has the talent and skills, what he needs is to be in the game and the zone for 120 minutes, rather than 12 minutes per game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Just on Koby Stevens, it will be interesting to see who he actually nominates. The way I see it, for him, is as follows:

Essendon - The most attractive offer given they're a big club, with a big profile and membership base, added to the fact that they should be top 5 or 6 next year. However, if he's leaving WC due to lack of opportunity, why would it be any different at Essendon? He may break in, yes, but it's going to be pretty difficult.

St. Kilda - Second most attractive offer given their list is perhaps 'OK'. They need a replacement for Hayes, so it could be a selling point. Their midfield probably lacks depth, so he should get a fair amount of opportunity. However, he obviously won't dislodge Hayes, Montagna, Dal Santo, Jones and Armitage.

Bulldogs - Least attractive in terms of ladder positioning in the next 2 years and we're not a big club that attracts the spotlight. However, he'll likely get more opportunity here than the other two clubs. Boyd/Cross/Libba/Wallis/Smith are ahead of him, but our mantra is around contested ball, which we would have preached to him and that's his 'game'.

In my opinion, the dumb decision would be to choose Essendon. Personally, I think he'll choose St. Kilda.

[jeemak]

I really don't understand why we're worrying about developing Grant in a specific role. When I look back upon all of the posts about him it's clear he has no attributes that pigeon hole him in a specific role within the side.

Our club is screaming out for a utility that can play in multiple positions forward of the ball. He is the only player on our list (apart from Murphy, and maybe Higgins) that has shown any diversity in his game as a forward, the rest are all very much type cast, unless they go into the middle for a spell.

Let's just let him develop his strength and his tank in equal measures. The only thing he'll be elite in once he develops is taking advantage of a miss-match against a slow or a short backman. The only way he'll get to that leve isl if he improves all areas of his fitness, and smarts.

We might want him to achieve more than that, but if he gets there he'll be extremely difficult to match up on. Teams that are successful have forwards that are difficult to match up on, and stretch defenses. Those forwards are worth their weight in gold.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What do people see in Mitch Brown?

My view may be off, but all I see is Gumbleton with half the talent.

I saw him kick 7 v Willi. He looked alright that day.

[Ghost Dog]

I really don't understand why we're worrying about developing Grant in a specific role. When I look back upon all of the posts about him it's clear he has no attributes that pigeon hole him in a specific role within the side.

Our club is screaming out for a utility that can play in multiple positions forward of the ball. He is the only player on our list (apart from Murphy, and maybe Higgins) that has shown any diversity in his game as a forward, the rest are all very much type cast, unless they go into the middle for a spell.

Let's just let him develop his strength and his tank in equal measures. The only thing he'll be elite in once he develops is taking advantage of a miss-match against a slow or a short backman. The only way he'll get to that leve isl if he improves all areas of his fitness, and smarts.

We might want him to achieve more than that, but if he gets there he'll be extremely difficult to match up on. Teams that are successful have forwards that are difficult to match up on, and stretch defenses. Those forwards are worth their weight in gold.

Who would you compare him to in the AFL? Players at other clubs I mean.

[Remi Moses]

No to Mitch Brown ( haven't we had enough of Geelong's rubbish)
No to Stevens ( couldn't get a game ahead of the likes of Swift and Mcginnity)
Yes to Gumby ( only if its a pick in the 40's)

[jeemak]

Who would you compare him to in the AFL? Players at other clubs I mean.

Nobody.

I think we have one of the most unique players on any list when it comes to Grant. I've seen him miss set shots just like everyone else, but I've also seen him slot goals with more composure when under pressure than every player on our list, and most players in the competition.

But I've also seen him burn off opponents, and make them look silly. I've also seen him look lackluster and lazy.

If we get him fit in all areas, and get his attitude right he'll be the best second or third option in the competition. I've not played AFL, but I've played top level Ammo football in all positions, and players like Grant really scared me the most out of any opponent I played on. Quick, tall, smart and skillful. Every defenders worst nightmare.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Nobody.

I think we have one of the most unique players on any list when it comes to Grant. I've seen him miss set shots just like everyone else, but I've also seen him slot goals with more composure when under pressure than every player on our list, and most players in the competition.

But I've also seen him burn off opponents, and make them look silly. I've also seen him look lackluster and lazy.

If we get him fit in all areas, and get his attitude right he'll be the best second or third option in the competition. I've not played AFL, but I've played top level Ammo football in all positions, and players like Grant really scared me the most out of any opponent I played on. Quick, tall, smart and skillful. Every defenders worst nightmare.

Great post jeemak. The above is exactly why I've always liked Grant. His potential is scary. Effort/application is the issue but I don't think we have handled him well since his 2010 season. He strikes me as a shy introverted character who needs plenty of support and confidence instilled into him. Not sure we have really done that recently.

[Desipura]

I saw him kick 7 v Willi. He looked alright that day.

If he was playing on the former no 31 it does not count.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Great post jeemak. The above is exactly why I've always liked Grant. His potential is scary. Effort/application is the issue but I don't think we have handled him well since his 2010 season. He strikes me as a shy introverted character who needs plenty of support and confidence instilled into him. Not sure we have really done that recently.

Agreed his problems are in that huge area of the six inches between those elfin ears. Ultimately only he can help himself, he must want to be in the game, make it his ball, for 100 minutes.
We would have a gem then.

[stefoid]

Who would you compare him to in the AFL? Players at other clubs I mean.

garlett from the blues?

[LostDoggy]

Does anyone know if Sherman and Vez are contracted for next year?

Both would appear to be 'on the outer' of BMac's plans, and it may well be that they get the chop sooner rather than later. Depends on their contractual status i guess?

[G-Mo77]

Does anyone know if Sherman and Vez are contracted for next year?

Both would appear to be 'on the outer' of BMac's plans, and it may well be that they get the chop sooner rather than later. Depends on their contractual status i guess?


I think both are. I know Sherman has been shopped around, no news on him since that was stated a few weeks ago. I think he'll be with us in 2013.

[LostDoggy]

Interesting developments:

1 - We may have offered Gumby a 2 yr deal

2 - Stevens has nominated us

3 - Young has gone to Pies, possibly creating a need at the Hawks for an outside runner.

Hope it pans out like:

1 - No more than current Pick 47 (which may drop up to 8 spots) for Gumby (would prefer PSD)

2 - Stevens - no more than Pick 41 (which again will drop as above) for Stevens

3 - We see how Hawks like the idea of getting a strong runner like Sherman for one of their later comp picks that they get for Murphy or Young - heck we helped them out with Lake maybe the good will created will help in getting Sherman over to them. May well need one of these comp picks to help with Stevens in particular

[Mofra]

Gumbleton is pretty clearly worth pick 21 on potential. However in the real world his risk downside says a pick about mid 40's is all you would want to chance on him. Essendon has a hard and well earned reputation for grossly overvaluing their players in a trade situation. So you would not expect their desires and requirements to be even vaguely realistic.
Essendon are normally unrealistic and Gumby is a massive talent, but he is out of contract and that couldwork in our favour - except for the Dees having a pick before us in the PSD.

[Throughandthrough]

Suggestions in today's paper that the Crows may need to trade out Andy Otten. I would seriously look at that, especially now that Lake has gone. They are also toying with cutting Tambling. Lol

[Mofra]

Suggestions in today's paper that the Crows may need to trade out Andy Otten. I would seriously look at that, especially now that Lake has gone. They are also toying with cutting Tambling. Lol
Interesting- he looked good in 2010? Still more of a rebounder than genuine KPD is he?

Of course if we get Plowman we wont need him :cool:

[DOG GOD]

Often would be a good replacement for Hargrave as they play a similar role. Taking the 3rd tall fwd is his best spot. Would be interesting to see what they would want for him. Straight swap for Sherman? :)

[Throughandthrough]

Often would be a good replacement for Hargrave as they play a similar role. Taking the 3rd tall fwd is his best spot. Would be interesting to see what they would want for him. Straight swap for Sherman? :)

I think he is more of a KPP than a rebounding defender. Has a knee reco in 2011 and supposedly lost some speed this year, Played some solid matches for South Adelaide in the SANFL this year.


Not sure how tall he is but i suspect he's be about Tom Williams height?

[Doc26]

Often would be a good replacement for Hargrave as they play a similar role. Taking the 3rd tall fwd is his best spot. Would be interesting to see what they would want for him. Straight swap for Sherman? :)

With Rutten in his twilight, the loss of Bock and Davis in consecutive seasons, Sam Shaw still raw and Talia next to join his brother to be a part of our dynasty should surely mean Otten would be a required player at Adelaide.

[KT31]

With Rutten in his twilight, the loss of Bock and Davis in consecutive seasons, Sam Shaw still raw and Talia next to join his brother to be a part of our dynasty should surely mean Otten would be a required player at Adelaide.

I'm assuming a wishful thinking because he Grandad was and his brother is a Doggie.
Or do you know something ?

[Doc26]

I'm assuming a wishful thinking because he Grandad was and his brother is a Doggie.
Or do you know something ?

Nah KT just wishful thinking but wouldn't it be nice to see, and throw the Reid's in as well.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Never really rated Otten outside of that one decent year.

He's easily buffered out of position and I'd question both his intensity and particularly 'pace' of decision making (for lack of a better description).

[Raw Toast]

Never really rated Otten outside of that one decent year.

He's easily buffered out of position and I'd question both his intensity and particularly 'pace' of decision making (for lack of a better description).

I did like Otten that year as well and haven't seen enough of him recently to comment. But the Americans often say that the game at the most elite level is too fast for certain players when talking about players who struggle to make correct decisions in the very limited time available.

[lemmon]

Now who is Tom Young??
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/magpie-young-heading-to-the-bulldogs-20121025-286up.html#ixzz2AGNDahcv

[Sedat]

So we have added Hunter, Stevens and Young to the main list, with picks 5, 6, 22 and 51 to come. By my reckoning, that's 7 new draftees/trades, with 7 already confirmed outgoing players from our 2012 senior list: Hargrave, Gilbee, Lake, Hooper, Mulligan, Moles, Djerkurra.

We then have up to 4 potential rookie elevations in Jong, Austin, JJ and Campbell - you'd think at least 2 of these will be elevated, so worst case 9 into 7 doesn't go. There must still be some last minute trade-outs/delistings to play out at the kennel. I'd imagine all of Tom Hill, Sherman, Skinner, Vesz and Panos having a few sleepless nights until the final list lodgements.

Is there any chance of trading out a Sherman for a late pick or even a slight pick upgrade?

[Axe Man]

So we have added Hunter, Stevens and Young to the main list, with picks 5, 6, 22 and 51 to come. By my reckoning, that's 7 new draftees/trades, with 7 already confirmed outgoing players from our 2012 senior list: Hargrave, Gilbee, Lake, Hooper, Mulligan, Moles, Djerkurra.

We then have up to 4 potential rookie elevations in Jong, Austin, JJ and Campbell - you'd think at least 2 of these will be elevated, so worst case 9 into 7 doesn't go. There must still be some last minute trade-outs/delistings to play out at the kennel. I'd imagine all of Tom Hill, Sherman, Skinner, Vesz and Panos having a few sleepless nights until the final list lodgements.

Is there any chance of trading out a Sherman for a late pick or even a slight pick upgrade?

Tom Hill has already been delisted. Despite 387 suggestions on this board to trade Sherman I highly doubt it will happen.

[Sedat]

Tom Hill has already been delisted. Despite 387 suggestions on this board to trade Sherman I highly doubt it will happen.
Allow us to dream Axe Man :D

So still at least one more delisting by my maths, unless we don't use pick 51 (or just use it to elevate one of the rookies). Weren't we bragging about having 5 picks inside the top 50 a couple of weeks ago??

[whythelongface]

So we have added Hunter, Stevens and Young to the main list, with picks 5, 6, 22 and 51 to come. By my reckoning, that's 7 new draftees/trades, with 7 already confirmed outgoing players from our 2012 senior list: Hargrave, Gilbee, Lake, Hooper, Mulligan, Moles, Djerkurra.

We then have up to 4 potential rookie elevations in Jong, Austin, JJ and Campbell - you'd think at least 2 of these will be elevated, so worst case 9 into 7 doesn't go. There must still be some last minute trade-outs/delistings to play out at the kennel. I'd imagine all of Tom Hill, Sherman, Skinner, Vesz and Panos having a few sleepless nights until the final list lodgements.

Is there any chance of trading out a Sherman for a late pick or even a slight pick upgrade?


Hasn't Panos been delisted?

[Axe Man]

Hasn't Panos been delisted?

Not officially as far as I'm aware, unless you know something we don't?

[whythelongface]

Not officially as far as I'm aware, unless you know something we don't?

No just thought I read previously he had been. My bad.

[China Dog]

I'd really like us to make a late play for Ben Jacobs at Port, he fits our new "hard edged" approach. Wish we could engineer a swap for Markovic, Sherman or Vez (maybe two of them) to Port for Jacobs. Josh Toy for a late pick and we would have a strong group of 20 to 22 year olds, capable of taking us forward.