Sam Reid and GWS

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm only repeating what was posted on another forum but at least this is logical.


The claim was that we would trade the Ward compo pick plus Sam Reid to GWS for pick 7.


It kind of makes sense for us because pick 7 would likely deliver us someone like Will Hoskin-Elliott - according to the draft watchers he's super quick and a beautiful kick - just what we need. It also means we start the re-build a year early.

It certainly makes sense for GWS. They have 100's of good kids now, they can delay using the compo pick for 5 years to stagger bringing highly rated kids into the club.


I guess it all comes down to where we finish next year. If we rebound and make the 8 we've had a win on the deal. If we fall in a heap and finish 16th we've done ourselves out of a top 3 pick.

[LostDoggy]

That would be a nice scenario for us. I would take it. Even if we do well next year the draft is a lottery anyway.

[LostDoggy]

Sounds like a win to me. I've already had a bet with a mate that we won't make the top 8 next season.

[azabob]

It would be a win for us, but sounds a bit too good to be true.

[Cyberdoggie]

I guess it all comes down to where we finish next year. If we rebound and make the 8 we've had a win on the deal. If we fall in a heap and finish 16th we've done ourselves out of a top 3 pick.

A good point of discussion,


I can't see us falling too much further than we have this year to be honest.

We had a lot go wrong in terms of star players being out and we really only beat 1 team that is better than us clearly better than us in Carlton.

That is evened out with a loss to North you could possibly say.

We are in that large middle of the road bracket where 2-3 more wins gets you finals and potentially a good season, and a couple more losses puts you just above the easy beats.

We won't be an easy beat next year with the players we still have alone but we will need to look to replace them and find some new key talent now.

[Rocco Jones]

Pick 7= finishing 12th.

GWS and GC will probably finish right near the bottom. Port too. If the Crows and/or Dees use their pick and finish beneath us that's an extra couple of picks down. I think that deal is good for us.

Worst case scenario is we finish very low next year and we get an early pick anyway. Good to spread them out over a few years.

[Rocco Jones]

BTW if it's the same as with GC, we will be able to secure another compo pick by allowing Reid to go as our 2nd uncontracted player. The Lions and GC did it with Brennan. The Lions got an upgraded pick in a trade + compo pick. No skin off GWS' nose as they don't pay for it.

[DragzLS1]

I like the sound of this

[The Coon Dog]

BTW if it's the same as with GC, we will be able to secure another compo pick by allowing Reid to go as our 2nd uncontracted player. The Lions and GC did it with Brennan. The Lions got an upgraded pick in a trade + compo pick. No skin off GWS' nose as they don't pay for it.

Why don't we trade about 8 of them to GWS? :D

[Rocco Jones]

Why don't we trade about 8 of them to GWS? :D

Haha, it's an interesting loop hole. If a club is happy to lose a player it suits them if they are actually uncontracted. Perhaps it is why we are getting such a good deal, we trade our two compo picks and Reid for pick 7.

Makes sense Reid wise as well. He brings more value from 'activating' a pick than he does from himself.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This would be a fantastic result.

I highly doubt we'll finish lower next year. I'd suggest about the same, possibly a few spots higher - although it's all dependent on Cooney and Lake.

I'd take that deal and run.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Pick 7= finishing 12th.

GWS and GC will probably finish right near the bottom. Port too. If the Crows and/or Dees use their pick and finish beneath us that's an extra couple of picks down. I think that deal is good for us.

Worst case scenario is we finish very low next year and we get an early pick anyway. Good to spread them out over a few years.

Maybe GWS think we are going to be really crap next year

[Rocco Jones]

Maybe GWS think we are going to be really crap next year

Yep, I think that's a selling point as well. Either way neither of us really pay for the compo pick, it's a bonus.

[Topdog]

I'd rather keep it for another year. We will be crap next year.

Our 99 class will all be a year older and we have no one that will be able to kick a winning score.

[GVGjr]

I would have thought GWS would want to keep pick 7 and our compensation that is being suggested is at best questionable.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I would have thought GWS would want to keep pick 7 and our compensation that is being suggested is at best questionable.

Why would you think that?

The pick immediately after our first pick could be anywhere (realistically) from pick 5 to pick 15 in a (nearly) uncomprimised draft.

Considering the number of 1st Rounders they already have, putting a high draft pick in the bank for later on sounds like a good idea.

[BulldogBelle]

I'd rather keep it for another year. We will be crap next year.

Our 99 class will all be a year older and we have no one that will be able to kick a winning score.

Tend to agree. Can't see us improving significantly.

[Remi Moses]

I'd heard a trade of Picks, our pick 17 for their 11.
I'd take it and looking from their perspective they need some mid 20's types( looking a tad dads army) up there

[anfo27]

I'd rather keep it for another year. We will be crap next year.

Our 99 class will all be a year older and we have no one that will be able to kick a winning score.

I agree with this. I can't see how we will more games next year with no Hall in the forward line. Keep the pick for christs sake as we will have 2 picks in the top 10 in a strong draft. The deal does seem a little tempting but we need be realistic with our list and plan accordingly, no short cuts.

[anfo27]

I'd heard a trade of Picks, our pick 17 for their 11.
I'd take it and looking from their perspective they need some mid 20's types( looking a tad dads army) up there

i like this better.

[gohardorgohome]

I'd take the swap straight away... The sooner we rebuild the better. No one has won a flag yet from a sustained period of bottoming out..

[anfo27]

I'd take the swap straight away... The sooner we rebuild the better. No one has won a flag yet from a sustained period of bottoming out..

Hawthorn?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'd heard a trade of Picks, our pick 17 for their 11.
I'd take it and looking from their perspective they need some mid 20's types( looking a tad dads army) up there

And GWS would do this why?

Sam Reid has no value at all.

[gohardorgohome]

Hawthorn?

14th and 15th in a two year drop isn't a sustained period of dropping out in my opinion. Obtaining and maintaining a winning culture is far more important than some possible higher draft pick.

[Topdog]

I'd take the swap straight away... The sooner we rebuild the better. No one has won a flag yet from a sustained period of bottoming out..

We haven't come close to bottoming out yet let agone a sustained period of it.

[Topdog]

14th and 15th in a two year drop isn't a sustained period of dropping out in my opinion. Obtaining and maintaining a winning culture is far more important than some possible higher draft pick.

Giving away a compensation pick for a young kid this year will achieve your goal of winning culture how exactly?

[Remi Moses]

And GWS would do this why?

Sam Reid has no value at all.

Throwing in Reid of course. Just a whisper, don't shoot the messenger.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Throwing in Reid of course. Just a whisper, don't shoot the messenger.
You pretty much have them trading pick 11 for pick 17. There's nothing in it for them.

[anfo27]

14th and 15th in a two year drop isn't a sustained period of dropping out in my opinion. Obtaining and maintaining a winning culture is far more important than some possible higher draft pick.

It is in for mine. They did it the smart way and loaded up on draft picks in that 2 year window. You sound like Demetriou who said 'no team has won the flag with priority pcks'. Temas don't spend years on the bottow any more.

[Topdog]

Even the pies won it from priority picks

[EasternWest]

And GWS would do this why?

Sam Reid has no value at all.

Not to any established teams maybe. But a big body who's pretty fearless (if also injury prone, granted) might be just what GWS need for a few years.

Not sure what pick value he's worth to them, but certainly they'd be the only team he would look even slightly attractive to.

[Maddog37]

Gold coast took N Krakour(? spell) and Josh Fraser so you never know what these clubs will trade for.........

[Mantis]

Gold coast took N Krakour(? spell) and Josh Fraser so you never know what these clubs will trade for.........

McKenna picked Fraser over Minson.

Scott Clayton was super keen on N.Krakouer when drafted so he probably saw him as an un-tapped talent for GC to work with.

[Maddog37]

You know what I mean though, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They might see Reid the same way.

[chef]

He wants to play with his brother.

[lemmon]

He wants to play with his brother.

Needs some explanation, is this based on anything?

[Mantis]

Needs some explanation, is this based on anything?

Sam's brother Ben will be listed by GWS.

Very confusing with 2 sets of brothers sharing the same names.

[lemmon]

Sam's brother Ben will be listed by GWS.

Very confusing with 2 sets of brothers sharing the same names.

That cant be serious, two sets of Reid's, both Sam and Ben...Get creative Reids!

[chef]

There are two sets of Ben and Sam Reids:confused:.

The Reid family moved to Moama(his grandparents live there) from Queensland last year so Ben could play footy for the Pioneers and NSW/ACT in the TAC to increase his chances of getting drafted. He didn't end up getting drafted, but was signed as a NSW player for GWS. According to someone up here that knows the family, Sam wants to play with his brother.

[AndrewP6]

You know what I mean though, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They might see Reid the same way.

I thought it was "beerholder" ;)

[gohardorgohome]

Giving away a compensation pick for a young kid this year will achieve your goal of winning culture how exactly?

I am all for trading next year's compensation pick and Reid for this year’s pick seven....let’s get a good kid into our system as soon as possible and playing well within a year or two rather than wait one more season.

If drafted this year he will then learn from the likes of our senior players.....I can see a big gap at the top of the list in two year’s time.....I think having an extra top pick this year will spread the amount of kids in our group. Rather than having a lot of talented kids arriving at once with a dearth of mentors.

The key to a good list is an even spread....

[mjp]

The key to a good list is an even spread....

I used to believe this. But now I don't care about having a 'good' list. The reason is that there is no prize for having the best list in the league - it just doesn't count.

In order to win, you need to have the most number of 'A' graders on the field on that day...we don't have many of these. I am all for trading the pick (or picks, or players) in an effort to try and get a higher level of talent to the club. If this means rolling the dice to get O'Meara in a deal with GWS - fine. If it means trading Sam Reid? Fine. To be honest, if it means trading Higgins or Grant or whomever else, fine.

I am old and tired - but continuing to mess about with players on the fringes of selection for other clubs simply wont help us.

[Sedat]

I used to believe this. But now I don't care about having a 'good' list. The reason is that there is no prize for having the best list in the league - it just doesn't count.

In order to win, you need to have the most number of 'A' graders on the field on that day...we don't have many of these. I am all for trading the pick (or picks, or players) in an effort to try and get a higher level of talent to the club. If this means rolling the dice to get O'Meara in a deal with GWS - fine. If it means trading Sam Reid? Fine. To be honest, if it means trading Higgins or Grant or whomever else, fine.

I am old and tired - but continuing to mess about with players on the fringes of selection for other clubs simply wont help us.
There was a good discussion about this very issue a couple of years ago:
http://woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=7122

I'm definitely starting to lean to the 'A-graders' camp over the 'even spread' camp. St Kilda so very nearly made McQualter, Peake and Eddy into premiership players on the back of some unbelievable oputput from Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Fisher and Dal Santo, with a whole lot of role players making up the rest of the numbers.

Our genuine A-graders when fully fit are Cooney, Griff and Lake. Murph is approaching A-grade elite but we don't have any other players anywhere near that level, especially our big blokes.

And some of our supporters think that Rocket under-performed with the list he had to work with compared to the top-end talent that Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and St Kilda have had at their disposal. As a collective group of supporters, I reckon we over-rate the talent of our playing group more than any other group of supporters. Whatever it takes to bring in genuine talent into our club to improve our A-grade talent list, I'm all for.

[the banker]

I used to believe this. But now I don't care about having a 'good' list. The reason is that there is no prize for having the best list in the league - it just doesn't count.

In order to win, you need to have the most number of 'A' graders on the field on that day...we don't have many of these. I am all for trading the pick (or picks, or players) in an effort to try and get a higher level of talent to the club. If this means rolling the dice to get O'Meara in a deal with GWS - fine. If it means trading Sam Reid? Fine. To be honest, if it means trading Higgins or Grant or whomever else, fine.

I am old and tired - but continuing to mess about with players on the fringes of selection for other clubs simply wont help us.
My thinking as well mjp. This year without cooney and lake we struggled. We need a good game plan and a couple if A graders to be at the pointy end. Trade out the non performers with reputations and punt on the draft.

[boydogs]

You pretty much have them trading pick 11 for pick 17. There's nothing in it for them.

Wasn't there talk Ward had arranged a biased Reid trade as part of his signing?


Our genuine A-graders when fully fit are Cooney, Griff and Lake. Murph is approaching A-grade elite but we don't have any other players anywhere near that level, especially our big blokes.

A fit Hall would have to have been close, as would the bloke who came 3rd in the brownlow ;)

[1eyedog]

There was a good discussion about this very issue a couple of years ago:
http://woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=7122

I'm definitely starting to lean to the 'A-graders' camp over the 'even spread' camp. St Kilda so very nearly made McQualter, Peake and Eddy into premiership players on the back of some unbelievable oputput from Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Fisher and Dal Santo, with a whole lot of role players making up the rest of the numbers.

Our genuine A-graders when fully fit are Cooney, Griff and Lake. Murph is approaching A-grade elite but we don't have any other players anywhere near that level, especially our big blokes.

And some of our supporters think that Rocket under-performed with the list he had to work with compared to the top-end talent that Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and St Kilda have had at their disposal. As a collective group of supporters, I reckon we over-rate the talent of our playing group more than any other group of supporters. Whatever it takes to bring in genuine talent into our club to improve our A-grade talent list, I'm all for.

Murph is an A grader after this year. He is creative, has a high efficiency rate and tracks at 21 quality possessions a game, he's A grade all right. If you are going to lump Griffen into the A grader territory you have to put Boyd in there as well. He's AA and came third in the brownlow, his efficiency is atrocious but so is some of Griffen's field kicking and his kicking for goal. Boyd does many things better than Griffen and he rarely ebbs and flows through a match like Griffen does. Don't get me wrong, I agree with your assessment of Griffen, he's all class and has stood up when we needed him most (finals), but when avssessed throughout an entire season, he has just as many shortcomings as Boyd does.

Our A+ players are Cooney and Lake. Our A- players are Griffen, Boyd and Murphy.

[LostDoggy]

Oh Damn. Looks like I'll have to get another new jumper :mad: and signature :(

[giaco]

Murph is an A grader after this year. He is creative, has a high efficiency rate and tracks at 21 quality possessions a game, he's A grade all right. If you are going to lump Griffen into the A grader territory you have to put Boyd in there as well. He's AA and came third in the brownlow, his efficiency is atrocious but so is some of Griffen's field kicking and his kicking for goal. Boyd does many things better than Griffen and he rarely ebbs and flows through a match like Griffen does. Don't get me wrong, I agree with your assessment of Griffen, he's all class and has stood up when we needed him most (finals), but when avssessed throughout an entire season, he has just as many shortcomings as Boyd does.

Our A+ players are Cooney and Lake. Our A- players are Griffen, Boyd and Murphy.

Dale Morris must be B+ then?

[LostDoggy]

Dale Morris must be B+ then?

A graders in my opinion are players who can play more than one role well.

Lets just say Morris is an A grade backman.

[boydogs]

A graders in my opinion are players who can play more than one role well.

Not a Tony Lockett fan then?

[Maddog37]

Or John Brown?

[ledge]

Or Chris Judd

[divvydan]

Tweet this evening from Emma Quayle


emmasq Emma Quayle
So the #tradeweek craziness starts tomorrow. Dogs fans... GWS isn't very interested in trading for Sam Reid, can't see that happening.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

There was a good discussion about this very issue a couple of years ago:
http://woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=7122

I'm definitely starting to lean to the 'A-graders' camp over the 'even spread' camp. St Kilda so very nearly made McQualter, Peake and Eddy into premiership players on the back of some unbelievable oputput from Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Fisher and Dal Santo, with a whole lot of role players making up the rest of the numbers.

Our genuine A-graders when fully fit are Cooney, Griff and Lake. Murph is approaching A-grade elite but we don't have any other players anywhere near that level, especially our big blokes.

And some of our supporters think that Rocket under-performed with the list he had to work with compared to the top-end talent that Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and St Kilda have had at their disposal. As a collective group of supporters, I reckon we over-rate the talent of our playing group more than any other group of supporters. Whatever it takes to bring in
genuine talent into our club to improve our A-grade talent list, I'm all for.
A bit harsh on Boyd, Murphy and Morris in your assessment of A graders I would have thought!

[1eyedog]

Dale Morris must be B+ then?


A bit harsh on Boyd, Murphy and Morris in your assessment of A graders I would have thought!

Morris isn't an A-grader but he's close. Its hard to put a defensive back man in that bracket, he doesn't really set us up like Murphy does, but he does stop opposition A graders and that certainly counts highly in his favour.

B+ sounds about right, maybe moving into A-

[Topdog]

Tweet this evening from Emma Quayle

What they don't want a player who has been in the system for a long time but couldn't break into a team that finished outside the top 8? Crazy people.

[jazzadogs]

Morris isn't an A-grader but he's close. Its hard to put a defensive back man in that bracket, he doesn't really set us up like Murphy does, but he does stop opposition A graders and that certainly counts highly in his favour.

B+ sounds about right, maybe moving into A-
I think you're kidding yourself. A defensive backman can most certainly be counted as an A-grader, and Dale Morris ranks very highly among the AFL's defensive backmen.

I strongly disagree that you have to be a midfielder or key forward to be an A-grader, as you alluded to. Backmen are just as important, perhaps even more so at times, and I think players like Morris are perpetually undervalued.

*yes, I am a defender.

[1eyedog]

I think you're kidding yourself. A defensive backman can most certainly be counted as an A-grader, and Dale Morris ranks very highly among the AFL's defensive backmen.

I strongly disagree that you have to be a midfielder or key forward to be an A-grader, as you alluded to. Backmen are just as important, perhaps even more so at times, and I think players like Morris are perpetually undervalued.

*yes, I am a defender.

If I'm only kidding myself then that's okay. I agree that Morris rates very highly among the AFL's defensive backmen, nowhere did I say otherwise and I never alluded to A grade players being either mids or forwards, I just don't think we have any forwards that ar A grade players. If we did I would include them with the mids I mentioned. Backmen are very important (I included Lake who (when fit) is a better defender than Morris IMO). Premierships are still won from the back line and, as stated, I would concede that Morris is (almost) around the A- players at the club. You seem to think I'm putting him down or something but if you can elucidate that from my post you are a mad man. Playing as a forward through all of my footy (except for one run in the ruck in Under 18s) I probably don't hold the backline in as much esteem as you do (being a defender and all). I think it just comes down to opinion.

[Sedat]

This just tweeted by Emma Quayle:

"GWS are making a liar out of me and have come back & expressed some mild interest in Bulldog Sam Reid. That may be a late deal."

[SlimPickens]

This just tweeted by Emma Quayle:

"GWS are making a liar out of me and have come back & expressed some mild interest in Bulldog Sam Reid. That may be a late deal."

If they're looking for a bull with dicky shoulders....Sams their man!!!

[Greystache]

If they're looking for a bull with dicky shoulders....Sams their man!!!

Don't forget horrible kick... How could they not!!

[LostDoggy]

Silvagni hasn't ruled out trading one of GWS' first 5 picks - Should chat or...hypnotize him. ;)

[Mofra]

Silvagni hasn't ruled out trading one of GWS' first 5 picks - Should chat or...hypnotize him. ;)
Maybe hire Darren Milburn to handle negotiations for us :cool:

[bornadog]

Deal is close to being done.

[SlimPickens]

Deal is close to being done.

what have you heard???

[SlimPickens]

Sam Reid off to GWS for a compensation pick more to come. Paper work to be lodged soon.

[bulldogsman]

what have you heard???

Reported on trade week radio, we will get a compo pick.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Sam Reid off to GWS for a compensation pick more to come. Paper work to be lodged soon.

What does a compensation pick mean?

One that can be used over the next few years?

[SlimPickens]

What does a compensation pick mean?

One that can be used over the next few years?

yep thats my understanding obviously dependent on what round it is but may mean we can bank it for a couple of years

[The Coon Dog]

Emma Quayle says more details to come on Sam Reid. Might clarify things.

[G-Mo77]

Would we get around what Port got for Nathan Krakouer or less?

[bulldogsman]

I guess we will know soon, but I thought we would at least get a pick upgrade along with the compo pick from the AFL.

[LostDoggy]

Probably band 4 or band 3 at best, more likely band 4 which equals third round pick.

[The Coon Dog]

Probably band 4 or band 3 at best, more likely band 4 which equals third round pick.

Ralphy at the Herald Sun sums it up best when he says based on games played he's worth a 4th round pick, but with the compensation determined by age/contract who knows what it will be?

[bornadog]

Ralphy at the Herald Sun sums it up best when he says based on games played he's worth a 4th round pick, but with the compensation determined by age/contract who knows what it will be?

His manager says based on the criteria set by AFL, should be a third round pick

[Maddog37]

Hopefully this will be the make up special for Ward only being tier 2 and we get tier 3 for Sam.

His manager just said they have given him a three year deal and he is young. Also you would imagine it would be front ended so fingers crossed......

[The Underdog]

His manager says based on the criteria set by AFL, should be a third round pick

Would that be end of 3rd?
Anyway seems fair.

[bornadog]

Would that be end of 3rd?
Anyway seems fair.

I believe we won't know till next week.

[divvydan]

The third round pick (Band 5 compensation) is a third round pick taken after the club's pick for their finishing position that year.

There is no Band below 5 so under the AFL's compensation policy, it's not possible (or should not be possible) to receive less than a third round pick.

[Sedat]

Hopefully this will be the make up special for Ward only being tier 2 and we get tier 3 for Sam.

His manager just said they have given him a three year deal and he is young. Also you would imagine it would be front ended so fingers crossed......
How Reid can be classified as one tier lower than Ward defies logic, but I'll take it if we get it.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Good luck to Sam

He's had a few injuries to overcome and become a diabetic whilst with us

I wish the guy all the best and hope he can make a really good fist of it

[Sedat]

Good luck to Sam

He's had a few injuries to overcome and become a diabetic whilst with us

I wish the guy all the best and hope he can make a really good fist of it
Agreed. He was an absolute favourite of mine after that win against the Cats in Round 21 in 2009 - he looked like he belonged at AFL level that night and his attack on the ball was ferocious and uncompromising. Unfortunately his body has been bashed up since then.

I wish him a long and fruitful career - he deserves a decent crack at it after all the setbacks thus far.

[craigsahibee]

Good Luck Sam.

I sincerely hope you can get your body right and have a decent crack at becoming a regular AFL player.

Always hate to see a player leave our club, especially one as courageous and hard working as yourself.

[jazzadogs]

Can someone clear up for me...have we not actually 'traded' Sam, but rather just released him as an uncontracted player?

I was certain that when Brennan went to GC last year as the 2nd uncontracted player from Brisbane, they received pick 5 plus a compensation pick. Did I get this wrong?

If I didn't get it wrong, then why didn't we get something off GWS in addition to the compensation pick?

Emma Quayle tweeted that the Bulldogs were clever to release him rather than trade, so I'm inclined to think I'm wrong, but if someone can confirm that would be great.

PS all the best to Sam, will be interesting to see how he goes and if his body holds up.

[bornadog]

Can someone clear up for me...have we not actually 'traded' Sam, but rather just released him as an uncontracted player?

I was certain that when Brennan went to GC last year as the 2nd uncontracted player from Brisbane, they received pick 5 plus a compensation pick. Did I get this wrong?

If I didn't get it wrong, then why didn't we get something off GWS in addition to the compensation pick?

Emma Quayle tweeted that the Bulldogs were clever to release him rather than trade, so I'm inclined to think I'm wrong, but if someone can confirm that would be great.

PS all the best to Sam, will be interesting to see how he goes and if his body holds up.

In order for GWS to pick Sam Reid they need permission from us, as they are only allowed one uncontracted players from each club. We receive a compensation pick which is going to be better than if we tried to trade him to another club. Lets face it, no one is going to give you a 3rd round pick for Sam Reid.

As for Brennan, he was worth much more than the compensation pick and thats why they received an extra pick

Note: There is a formula for the compensation pick which doesn't take into consideration, how good the player is, so thats why we are better off.

[Mantis]

In order for GWS to pick Sam Reid they need permission from us, as they are only allowed two uncontracted players from each club. We receive a compensation pick which is going to be better than if we tried to trade him to another club. Lets face it, no one is going to give you a 3rd round pick for Sam Reid.

As for Brennan, he was worth much more than the compensation pick and thats why they received an extra pick

Note: There is a formula for the compensation pick which doesn't take into consideration, how good the player is, so thats why we are better off.

Aren't they only allowed one?

The 2nd one is a trade??

[bornadog]

Aren't they only allowed one?

The 2nd one is a trade??

yes sorry meant one, will edit

[Remi Moses]

Good luck Sam Reid.
Hope his body holds up, his g/f knew ages ago he was going!:eek:

[bulldogsman]

In order for GWS to pick Sam Reid they need permission from us, as they are only allowed one uncontracted players from each club. We receive a compensation pick which is going to be better than if we tried to trade him to another club. Lets face it, no one is going to give you a 3rd round pick for Sam Reid.

As for Brennan, he was worth much more than the compensation pick and thats why they received an extra pick

Note: There is a formula for the compensation pick which doesn't take into consideration, how good the player is, so thats why we are better off.

Surely GWS could have offered us at least a 4th round pick upgrade as a nice gesture though, they probably won't even use it.

Brisbane received an extra pick because they traded Brennan. We basically just released Reid.

It probably doesn't matter anyway so whatever

[divvydan]

Probably because the compensation Brisbane was going to receive for Brennan wasn't sufficient for them to allow him to leave.

[Maddog37]

Surely GWS could have offered us at least a 4th round pick upgrade as a nice gesture though, they probably won't even use it.

Brisbane received an extra pick because they traded Brennan. We basically just released Reid.

It probably doesn't matter anyway so whatever


Or maybe a pre list/trade deal for a Mature recruit?

[jazzadogs]

To me, that's not really good enough then. If Brisbane were able to trade Brennan for draft picks, plus compo picks, then we should have tried to do the same.

Surely we would have been able to convince GWS that one of their third roundish draft picks, which I can't see them using, could have come to us. We've effectively just handed him to GWS for nothing (I acknowledge that he's not necessarily worth much, but we could have got something for this year).

I guess Fantasia/Dalrymple might not have thought we would have used a draft pick that GWS offered, but ATM it seems we just handed him over without getting anything from GWS.

[chef]

To me, that's not really good enough then. If Brisbane were able to trade Brennan for draft picks, plus compo picks, then we should have tried to do the same.

Surely we would have been able to convince GWS that one of their third roundish draft picks, which I can't see them using, could have come to us. We've effectively just handed him to GWS for nothing (I acknowledge that he's not necessarily worth much, but we could have got something for this year).

I guess Fantasia/Dalrymple might not have thought we would have used a draft pick that GWS offered, but ATM it seems we just handed him over without getting anything from GWS.

If we had have held out for to much GWS wouldn't have worried about taking him. Reid wasn't that big of a bargaining chip.

[BulldogBelle]

We should have pushed harder to get a 3rd round pick PLUS a previously listed AFL player that we were interested in

If we knew GWS wanted Reid - for reasons like he is Ward's best mate and Reids brother is up there, he is young, has just been recovering from injuries and is ready to bloom ;-) then we had a bargaining chip (albeit Reid himself doesnt give much negotiating power)

[hujsh]

The fact we get anything for Reid is a bonus. To ask for even more on top of the compensation pick with a straight face would be Pelchen-esc.

Brisbane got a pick cause Brennan had currency. Reid does not.

[Go_Dogs]

Probably because the compensation Brisbane was going to receive for Brennan wasn't sufficient for them to allow him to leave.

My understanding though, is GWS have to TRADE with us, and the AFL compensation pick is just an added bonus, as Reid is the second player they are grabbing. Otherwise it seems they can just take as many players from any club without having to actually trade for them.

We should be making sure we get something else, even if it is just an upgrade of a later pick we will use.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Reid is a terrible footballer. He would have been delisted. A guy who is slow, can't kick, can't find the ball at the top level, has limited endurance and is injury prone = delisting material. Put it into perspective; by getting ANYTHING for Reid, we win.

[Maddog37]

Maybe the club agreed to do this to help Sam. Maybe there is more trades to come and this is a show of good faith....

Either way it is done and Sam was not getting a game even when we were losing so no massive loss.

[divvydan]

My understanding though, is GWS have to TRADE with us, and the AFL compensation pick is just an added bonus, as Reid is the second player they are grabbing. Otherwise it seems they can just take as many players from any club without having to actually trade for them.

We should be making sure we get something else, even if it is just an upgrade of a later pick we will use.

No, they don't, we just have to agree to let the player go.

[Go_Dogs]

No, they don't, we just have to agree to let the player go.

Then I don't understand why we get an AFL compensation selection.

I think it's a fair result as is, but either we traded him (and should get something extra) or we released him. If he's released, on what basis do we get the compensation pick? If you release an un-contracted player, regardless of him going there as our second player to GWS, isn't that simply it?

The reason I query it, sometimes seems the AFL just make it up/interpret it however they want, as they go.

[westdog54]

Then I don't understand why we get an AFL compensation selection.

I think it's a fair result as is, but either we traded him (and should get something extra) or we released him. If he's released, on what basis do we get the compensation pick? If you release an un-contracted player, regardless of him going there as our second player to GWS, isn't that simply it?

The reason I query it, sometimes seems the AFL just make it up/interpret it however they want, as they go.

We get a compensation selection because he is a listed uncontracted player. Our plans for him come the end of October are completely irrelevant.

They expressed an interest in an uncontracted player, who we were under no obligation to allow them access to. We were offered compensation by the AFL and we took it.

Its a trade with extra flexibility on our part.

[LostDoggy]

Reid is a terrible footballer. He would have been delisted. A guy who is slow, can't kick, can't find the ball at the top level, has limited endurance and is injury prone = delisting material. Put it into perspective; by getting ANYTHING for Reid, we win.

This is reality for him at the top level. Good luck to him if he can another one or two years with GWS as cover.

[stefoid]

I dont understand the angst, this is a win for everyone concerned.

[jeemak]

Reid is a terrible footballer. He would have been delisted. A guy who is slow, can't kick, can't find the ball at the top level, has limited endurance and is injury prone = delisting material. Put it into perspective; by getting ANYTHING for Reid, we win.

Probably a bit harsh, although I don't think he'll be much more than a grunt player if he forges a career.

For me, he's a perfect example of how a lot of footballers are viewed by the public. Hard at it and had some injuries, so he gets a free pass on his kicking, decision making, pace etc.

Good luck to him, would be happy with a third round compo.

[AndrewP6]

Not fussed really, good luck to Sam up there.

[Go_Dogs]

I dont understand the angst, this is a win for everyone concerned.

Don't get me wrong, I agree, and thank you WD54 for the explanation.

[Doc26]

Or maybe as suggested weeks ago the Reid deal was always tied to the Ward deal.

In essence, we lose Ward for an end of round 1 and hopefully round 3 selection with Reid thrown in to comfort Cal. during those lonely winter western Sydney nights.

I'm moving to Lantern's school of thought, that this type of deal is not isolated, more contrived, and part of a bigger cunning plan.

[BulldogBelle]

Or maybe as suggested weeks ago the Reid deal was always tied to the Ward deal.

In essence, we lose Ward for an end of round 1 and hopefully round 3 selection with Reid thrown in to comfort Cal. during those lonely winter western Sydney nights.

I'm moving to Lantern's school of thought, that this type of deal is not isolated, more contrived, and part of a bigger cunning plan.



Agree with the above

Reid was probably always in principal part of the Ward deal - which is why we should have played hard ball and asked for something else on top of the 3rd round pick (ie an unlisted player) as part of the Reid deal given it was virtually in the bag from our perspective

We need to remember that this draft, GWS may not use the pick they are giving to us for Reid, and may not use any unlisted player that we could sign if they made that apart of the Reid deal - so no skin off their nose in throwing us a few extra bones given they poached Ward

You should be a romance writer Doc ;-)

[GVGjr]

I dont understand the angst, this is a win for everyone concerned.

I don't think everyone has fully grasped yet what has happened. The picture will become clearer soon enough.

[soupman]

I dont understand the angst, this is a win for everyone concerned.

Could the fact that a rumour made up a month ago snowballed into Reid+Ward becoming equal to a deal of Chris Judd proportions have raised peoples expectations somewhat?

Now that it's Sam Reid for only a 3rd rounder, and not for a package deal involving picks 5 and 10, Elle McPherson and a blank cheque people are a little dissapointed, especially after being conditioned into thinking Sam Reid is actually close to our best 25 players, and not in our worst 5.

[jazzadogs]

I don't think everyone has fully grasped yet what has happened. The picture will become clearer soon enough.
I fully understand that we've got a compensation pick for Sam Reid. I fully understand that this is a good deal for us.

I guess my disappointment is either with the Dogs, if they didn't try to get something from GWS, or GWS if they refused to give us anything. I know we get compo, but that's not from GWS which I don't think is fair no matter how average the player.

Also, surely we'll find out what tier compo we're getting soon, in case we want to trade it on.

[jeemak]

I fully understand that we've got a compensation pick for Sam Reid. I fully understand that this is a good deal for us.

I guess my disappointment is either with the Dogs, if they didn't try to get something from GWS, or GWS if they refused to give us anything. I know we get compo, but that's not from GWS which I don't think is fair no matter how average the player.

Also, surely we'll find out what tier compo we're getting soon, in case we want to trade it on.

But GWS isn't starting from the same base all of the other clubs do when trade week starts. They can't be looked at in the same way other clubs are at trade time.

They don't have any players to trade, they just have some high end picks that they need to hang on to. Remember, they need to get 38 players to start a season, the AFL has to be a part of the trading process.

[Remi Moses]

The funniest i've heard so far is Melbourne wanting a first rounder for Spider Bate!
Now that's hilarious:D
Just beat Adelaide's wanting a first rounder for Maric:eek:

[The Coon Dog]

Heard Sam Reid described yesterday as 'the stable pony' for Callan Ward. ;)

[LostDoggy]

Forgive my ignorance, but does the third round compo pick last for 5 years like the Ward compo pick? Because if so, that's an added bonus isn't it? A 3rd round pick we can use in any year for the next 5 instead of a 4th round pick for this year only in a compromised draft.

[bornadog]

Forgive my ignorance, but does the third round compo pick last for 5 years like the Ward compo pick? Because if so, that's an added bonus isn't it? A 3rd round pick we can use in any year for the next 5 instead of a 4th round pick for this year only in a compromised draft.

Correct

[bornadog]

Heard Sam Reid described yesterday as 'the stable pony' for Callan Ward. ;)

Now thats funny. Poor darling needs a mate to go to the big smoke, especially the dark gloomy Western Suburbs of Sydney:D

[Mofra]

We get a pick for a player who was quite possibly going to be delisted.
Reid is the Nathan Ablett of this year's trade period, we get something extra for nothing at the insistance of Cal.
Everyone wins.

[Ghost Dog]

We get a pick for a player who was quite possibly going to be delisted.
Reid is the Nathan Ablett of this year's trade period, we get something extra for nothing at the insistance of Cal.
Everyone wins.

Come off it Mofra.
may not be able to break into AFL but he's a damn sight better than Nathan Ablett...:rolleyes:

Did you watch Sam Ried tearing Werribee up down at Port Melbourne? Like to see Ablett play as well as that, even in the VFL

[soupman]

Come off it Mofra.
may not be able to break into AFL but he's a damn sight better than Nathan Ablett...:rolleyes:

Did you watch Sam Ried tearing Werribee up down at Port Melbourne? Like to see Ablett play as well as that, even in the VFL

To be fair Nathan Ablett has played in an (winning?) AFL Grand Final.

Edit: Interpreting emoticon fail:(

[Ghost Dog]

To be fair Nathan Ablett has played in an (winning?) AFL Grand Final.

Edit: Interpreting emoticon fail:(

Right now, Who would you rather have in your team?

[soupman]

Right now, Who would you rather have in your team?

A tier 5 compo pick tbh

[Mofra]

Come off it Mofra.
may not be able to break into AFL but he's a damn sight better than Nathan Ablett...:rolleyes:

Did you watch Sam Ried tearing Werribee up down at Port Melbourne? Like to see Ablett play as well as that, even in the VFL
Is he in our best 22? Is he likely to play many games next year?

The answer is no in my opinion, so we are better off giving him an opportunity elsewhere.

Like Nathan, he is the sweetener that helped GWS nab a player they targeted. You are free to believe otherwise, I think in this instance he is more icing than cake.

[Ghost Dog]

Is he in our best 22? Is he likely to play many games next year?

The answer is no in my opinion, so we are better off giving him an opportunity elsewhere.

Like Nathan, he is the sweetener that helped GWS nab a player they targeted. You are free to believe otherwise, I think in this instance he is more icing than cake.

Sorry, meant to clarify. Very happy for Sam and for us to get this deal done. Def win win. Perhaps you were comparing the nature of the deal, not the skills of the players compared?
If so, my bad.
Still, GWS will get more out of Sam than GC were able to out of Nathan.

[Wing_Nut]

I fully understand that we've got a compensation pick for Sam Reid. I fully understand that this is a good deal for us.

I guess my disappointment is either with the Dogs, if they didn't try to get something from GWS, or GWS if they refused to give us anything. I know we get compo, but that's not from GWS which I don't think is fair no matter how average the player.

Also, surely we'll find out what tier compo we're getting soon, in case we want to trade it on.

I think it's entirely fair.

GWS obviously decided he wasn't worth losing a draft pick for. They would only sign him without losing any picks or they wouldn't sign him at all. Should GWS have to trade a draft pick for a player they don't see as worth much? That would be unfair.

It's a win for everyone as far as I see it.

[Desipura]

We win in a big way. Would have been delisted otherwise.

[Sedat]

Has the compensation been confirmed as yet? Band 3 isn't out of the question as yet, which would make it a significant win for us. Band 4 is still a win for the club - credit where it's due, I say well done to Fantasia (or whoever orchestrated this deal).

[Topdog]

No one orchestrated the deal. He is out of contract and leaving. All we have to do is say "yes he can leave"

[Mofra]

Still, GWS will get more out of Sam than GC were able to out of Nathan.
Ja no worries, he is definately going to get more opportunity at GWS.

[Maddog37]

Has the compensation been confirmed as yet? Band 3 isn't out of the question as yet, which would make it a significant win for us. Band 4 is still a win for the club - credit where it's due, I say well done to Fantasia (or whoever orchestrated this deal).


Nice work Sedat. I was starting to worry about your Fantasia fixation.:)

[Remi Moses]

Good deal for us as he would have been delisted anyway.Good Job by Fantasy in this deal.

[The Coon Dog]

Good deal for us as he would have been delisted anyway.Good Job by Fantasy in this deal.

Just what exactly did he do? Serious question.

[Topdog]

Just what exactly did he do? Serious question.

.....


No one orchestrated the deal. He is out of contract and leaving. All we have to do is say "yes he can leave"


Agree TCD. He did nothing. This is not just bagging him for the sake of it, it's just that he literally did nothing.

[Greystache]

I think it's entirely fair.

GWS obviously decided he wasn't worth losing a draft pick for. They would only sign him without losing any picks or they wouldn't sign him at all. Should GWS have to trade a draft pick for a player they don't see as worth much? That would be unfair.

It's a win for everyone as far as I see it.

I don't agree. GWS only has so many spots on their list, and they have a mountain of early picks, chances are they won't even draft a player after the third round. It's no skin off their back to give us a 4th round pick they won't use in addition to the compensation pick. It's only a small thing, but a series of small wins is what makes the difference between a brilliant negotiator and one who just happens to be doing the job.

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't agree. GWS only has so many spots on their list, and they have a mountain of early picks, chances are they won't even draft a player after the third round. It's no skin off their back to give us a 4th round pick they won't use in addition to the compensation pick. It's only a small thing, but a series of small wins is what makes the difference between a brilliant negotiator and one who just happens to be doing the job.

Wouldn't a draft pick from GWS have negated the compensation pick, because it would have made him a traded player NOT an uncontracted player.

Comparison to the Brennan deal with GC last year are not relevant as that also involved some other swaps.

[Topdog]

Wouldn't a draft pick from GWS have negated the compensation pick, because it would have made him a traded player NOT an uncontracted player.

Comparison to the Brennan deal with GC last year are not relevant as that also involved some other swaps.

I've never understood that deal and the legality of it.

[Topdog]

I don't agree. GWS only has so many spots on their list, and they have a mountain of early picks, chances are they won't even draft a player after the third round. It's no skin off their back to give us a 4th round pick they won't use in addition to the compensation pick. It's only a small thing, but a series of small wins is what makes the difference between a brilliant negotiator and one who just happens to be doing the job.

They haven't finished trading yet. They'll do a heap more before the end of trade week.

[Greystache]

Wouldn't a draft pick from GWS have negated the compensation pick, because it would have made him a traded player NOT an uncontracted player.

Comparison to the Brennan deal with GC last year are not relevant as that also involved some other swaps.

My understanding is you can make a trade arrangement (such as the 4th round pick) so that we agree to release the player, who's then taken as an uncontracted player and we receive the compensation pick.

[Greystache]

They haven't finished trading yet. They'll do a heap more before the end of trade week.

A lot of things may happen, but one thing we know for sure is we won't do any better out of the Reid deal than what the AFL decides to give us.

[Topdog]

True but we dont know if we tried and they knocked it back.

[LostDoggy]

Just what exactly did he do? Serious question.

He didn't say no? I mean, he could've refused to let Sam go and say that if he was in the draft, he would be worth a pick on the 20s.

[divvydan]

He didn't say no? I mean, he could've refused to let Sam go and say that if he was in the draft, he would be worth a pick on the 20s.

No offense to Sam but the only draft he'd be worth a pick in the 20s is the rookie draft. His only real selling point is his size as a midfielder and even that's taken away by his shoulders. Other than that, he's no different to 30 other slowish inside mids that would be available in any draft.

[LongWait]

Just what exactly did he do? Serious question.

What exactly didn't he do? Serious question?

You have no idea what happened behind the scenes TCD and neither does anyone on here.

[LongWait]

.....




Agree TCD. He did nothing. This is not just bagging him for the sake of it, it's just that he literally did nothing.

Yes it is bagging him just for the sake of it! How do you know what discussions have taken place and over what period of time? On what basis do you state categorically that Fantasia literally did nothing? The hypocrisy of some on here is absolutely breathtaking.

[hujsh]

Yes it is bagging him just for the sake of it! How do you know what discussions have taken place and over what period of time? On what basis do you state categorically that Fantasia literally did nothing? The hypocrisy of some on here is absolutely breathtaking.

What action could Fantaia possibly have taken to ensure this compensation pick was secured other than allowing Reid to leave? It's fair enough to say we don't know about everything Fantasia does but based on what we can see most people here are rightfully unhappy about his performance at our club. The idea that Djerkurra's contract was well negotiated is not indefensible but the notion Fantasia should be praised for the Reid transfer is clutching at straws.

For the record I'm not impressed with Fantasia, I thought Eade was a great coach, didn't like the way and resoning for his dismissal but was not sure either way if we should offer him another contract and now I'm excited to see what McCartney can bring to this club. Just so that's clear.

[anfo27]

It seems Fantasia gets all the blame and rocket gets excused all together. Yeah Fantasia probably was responsible for the length of contracts some players got but isn't it the coach who says 'i want DJ' or 'promote Mulligan & Hooper?'. What rocket & the rest of his coaches saw in these players is beyond me. Fantasia is not responsible for finding the talent or lack there of, he is responsible for their contracts.

[Scraggers]

What exactly didn't he do? Serious question?

You have no idea what happened behind the scenes TCD and neither does anyone on here.

James Fantasia ... Is that you ??
The way you're defending him, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't !!

You'd be surprised by who actually posts on here LW ... Some of us have more inside knowledge than you give credit for.

[Mantis]

It seems Fantasia gets all the blame and rocket gets excused all together. Yeah Fantasia probably was responsible for the length of contracts some players got but isn't it the coach who says 'i want DJ' or 'promote Mulligan & Hooper?'. What rocket & the rest of his coaches saw in these players is beyond me. Fantasia is not responsible for finding the talent or lack there of, he is responsible for their contracts.

It was reported that Dalrymple and his crew were super keen on DJ, watched a heap of him last year and were the driving force behind trading for him, Fantasia was responsible for length of contract.

Not sure on Hooper & Mulligan, but it has been thrown around that Fantasia was the person behind their upgrades.

[Scraggers]

It seems Fantasia gets all the blame and rocket gets excused all together. Yeah Fantasia probably was responsible for the length of contracts some players got but isn't it the coach who says 'i want DJ' or 'promote Mulligan & Hooper?'. What rocket & the rest of his coaches saw in these players is beyond me. Fantasia is not responsible for finding the talent or lack there of, he is responsible for their contracts.

This is why some people are critical of Fantasia ... These deals were done without the coaches approval. IIRC Rocket wasn't even in the country when these deals were done, and he was shocked on his return.

[bornadog]

It was reported that Dalrymple and his crew were super keen on DJ, watched a heap of him last year and were the driving force behind trading for him, Fantasia was responsible for length of contract.

Not sure on Hooper & Mulligan, but it has been thrown around that Fantasia was the person behind their upgrades.


This is why some people are critical of Fantasia ... These deals were done without the coaches approval. IIRC Rocket wasn't even in the country when these deals were done, and he was shocked on his return.

I remember Rocket telling us that Mulligan would be upgraded and if he proved he was ok and wanted to go back to QLD, we could use him to trade with the Suns.

[bulldogsman]

It was reported that Dalrymple and his crew were super keen on DJ, watched a heap of him last year and were the driving force behind trading for him, Fantasia was responsible for length of contract.

Given the recruiting team overrated DJ, do you think this may have influenced Fantasia in giving DJ a three year deal?


Not sure on Hooper & Mulligan, but it has been thrown around that Fantasia was the person behind their upgrades.

Fantasia has surely been unfairly bashed on this. None of us know what input the development coaches or the coach gave him. But I am a little suspicious that it was Fantasia that wanted to promote Mulligan in fear of GC nabbing him, even though he showed very little.

[anfo27]

This is why some people are critical of Fantasia ... These deals were done without the coaches approval. IIRC Rocket wasn't even in the country when these deals were done, and he was shocked on his return.

I find it difficult to believe that players get elevated or picked up during the trade period without the senior coach giving the green light. This just doesn't make any sense to me at all and if this really is the way we are operating then macca has his hands full in trying to turn the club around.

[GVGjr]

I find it difficult to believe that players get elevated or picked up during the trade period without the senior coach giving the green light. This just doesn't make any sense to me at all and if this really is the way we are operating then macca has his hands full in trying to turn the club around.

Same here. I can understand the terms on contracts being a bit different but not which rookie gets promoted. in my opinion Eade knew of the Hooper and Mulligan promotions.

[LostDoggy]

Back to the title of this item:
Hope all goes well for Sam Reid in GWS and that he and Cal continue to be mates. He really has had a bad run with injuries with us, but did you all see the size of the kick for goal he did in the Prelim against Werribee? It was HUGE!

[Greystache]

Going by what posters are saying it seems the senior coach has no say in recruiting, list management, trading, or contract negotiation. If that's the case it must be one of the easiest jobs at the club. I wonder then how our game plan could have been so terrible and how we were so poorly prepared for this season? It makes me think Eade was less fired and more made redundant. Let's hope Brendan McCartney plays a bigger role in the football side of the club.

[azabob]

James Fantasia ... Is that you ??
The way you're defending him, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't !!

You'd be surprised by who actually posts on here LW ... Some of us have more inside knowledge than you give credit for.

You would only get one side of the story though.

[ledge]

You would only get one side of the story though.

Yep the inside story, which is what we want because they make the decisions.

[Bulldog4life]

It was reported that Dalrymple and his crew were super keen on DJ, watched a heap of him last year and were the driving force behind trading for him, Fantasia was responsible for length of contract.

Not sure on Hooper & Mulligan, but it has been thrown around that Fantasia was the person behind their upgrades.

According to another thread it appears Rocket was the one impressed by Mulligan.

"In 2009 he again found himself playing in the Williamstown Seconds, but this time at fullback. He did enough to convince senior coach Rodney Eade that he had the capabilities to play at the highest level in this sort of role, and not only was he elevated to the senior list for 2010 but he was given a two-year contract to go with it".

[bornadog]

According to another thread it appears Rocket was the one impressed by Mulligan.

"In 2009 he again found himself playing in the Williamstown Seconds, but this time at fullback. He did enough to convince senior coach Rodney Eade that he had the capabilities to play at the highest level in this sort of role, and not only was he elevated to the senior list for 2010 but he was given a two-year contract to go with it".

Personally I have no reason to say upgrading Mulligan and Hooper was wrong. We have given these guys a go at senior footy. Some footballers we recruit don't even make it to one game.

Mulligan at 201cm, and very athletic and only 21 years old, why wouldn't you give him a go? OK, at this stage he has not worked out and may never work out, but good on the club for taking a chance, as 201cm athletic mobile footballers, don't grow on trees and do take longer to mature.

Hooper showed something in that semi final by kicking a goal at a crucial time and sparking the team with his enthusiasm. He was rewarded with an upgrade and a two year contract as was Mulligan.

For god sakes people, its not the end of the world, but I have no doubt in my mind that the full Match committee including Rocket, would have made these decisions, not just Fantasia.

[azabob]

Yep the inside story, which is what we want because they make the decisions.

My point is it's Eade version of events not Fantasia, Smorgon, Scott Clayton, Dalrymple etc.

[Topdog]

Yes it is bagging him just for the sake of it! How do you know what discussions have taken place and over what period of time? On what basis do you state categorically that Fantasia literally did nothing? The hypocrisy of some on here is absolutely breathtaking.

Tell me something. What discussions needed to take place between GWS and the Bulldogs RE: Reid.

GWS: Hi, we'd like Reid. You have to give the go-ahead cos we already signed Ward.

Bulldogs: OK, go-ahead.

[ledge]

Tell me something. What discussions needed to take place between GWS and the Bulldogs RE: Reid.

GWS: Hi, we'd like Reid. You have to give the go-ahead cos we already signed Ward.

Bulldogs: OK, go-ahead.

Possibly because we were going to drop Reid off list anyway and now we get something for him.
Your right Topdog its pretty straight forward, we hold the upper hand, yes or no.

[azabob]

Tell me something. What discussions needed to take place between GWS and the Bulldogs RE: Reid.

GWS: Hi, we'd like Reid. You have to give the go-ahead cos we already signed Ward.

Bulldogs: OK, go-ahead.

Or could have it been,

GWS - Hi, we want Reid. We will give you a 5th round pick

Bulldogs - No, how about we let him go to you as an uncontracted player we get a compensation pick and you get him for nothing.

[ledge]

Or could have it been,

GWS - Hi, we want Reid. We will give you a 5th round pick

Bulldogs - No, how about we let him go to you as an uncontracted player we get a compensation pick and you get him for nothing.

Its still not a long discussion we still held the upper hand.

[LostDoggy]

Or could have it been,

GWS - Hi, we want Reid. We will give you a 5th round pick

Bulldogs - No, how about we let him go to you as an uncontracted player we get a compensation pick and you get him for nothing.

While we're playing this game. Here's my take

GWS - Hi, as a condition for signing Ward, we must also get Reid. No matter what it takes.
Dogs - Really!? You want him? Why? I'll be honest with you, we were going to delist him anyway so just take him in the preseason draft
GWS - We can't. The rules preclude us from taking a second uncontracted player from the same club so we have to trade. What do you want?
Dogs - Anything is a bonus. I'm pretty busy so why don't you prepare the paperwork and just tell me where to sign
GWS - The other option is that you just let him go and the AFL will give you a compensation pick
Dogs - What, we can get another one? Deal! Wait till I tell the members. They'll think I'm a genius!

[gohardorgohome]

This is off the AFL web site....To me it is a no brainer that we trade Sam this way...worst case scenario is a third round pick.

"Compensation picks
Further, as part of the entry rules and in line with the rules that are in operation for the Gold Coast Football Club, Demetriou said the AFL Commission had again confirmed that any club that lost a player to the expansion side would be eligible for a compensation pick.

Compensation picks will be tradeable and can be used by clubs at any time within five years covering the period 2011 to 2015. First round compensation picks can not be until the 2012 draft onwards. Clubs will be required to nominate the year in which they plan to use the compensation pick before the first round of the Toyota AFL season in that particular year.

As per the rules with Gold Coast, the compensatory pick would be assessed around the player’s age (greater weighting for younger players), club contract ranking (greater weighting for club key players), on field performance (greater weighting for strong club best and fairest performance) and draft position if less than four years experience.

This ranking system will then determine if a club is eligible for a compensatory pick in one of five spots -- first round pick, end of first round pick, second round pick, end of second round pick or third round pick. Under the model, the round one, round two or round three picks would be taken immediately after the pick the club already has in that round in the draft that year."

[Topdog]

This is off the AFL web site....To me it is a no brainer that we trade Sam this way...worst case scenario is a third round pick.

of course it is. Everyone who has spent more than 2 minutes looking into the draft knows this. Yet apparently we should praise our staff for doing it...........

Just because I have put down Fantasia before doesn't mean my point is any less valid here, he just literally had nothing to do in this instance except say "yes you can take him". I think he has made some good decisions too for those that wonder.

[Bulldog4life]

Personally I have no reason to say upgrading Mulligan and Hooper was wrong. We have given these guys a go at senior footy. Some footballers we recruit don't even make it to one game.

Mulligan at 201cm, and very athletic and only 21 years old, why wouldn't you give him a go? OK, at this stage he has not worked out and may never work out, but good on the club for taking a chance, as 201cm athletic mobile footballers, don't grow on trees and do take longer to mature.

Hooper showed something in that semi final by kicking a goal at a crucial time and sparking the team with his enthusiasm. He was rewarded with an upgrade and a two year contract as was Mulligan.

For god sakes people, its not the end of the world, but I have no doubt in my mind that the full Match committee including Rocket, would have made these decisions, not just Fantasia.

That was my point too.

[Remi Moses]

I don't get this as we Reid would have been delisted .
We get something out of nothing. ( good)
Mulligan gets upgraded and it's Fantasia's fault!:rolleyes:
Personally I think he's an average operator but let's not place every ounce of Angst on him.

[LostDoggy]

While we're playing this game. Here's my take

GWS - Hi, as a condition for signing Ward, we must also get Reid. No matter what it takes.
Dogs - Really!? You want him? Why? I'll be honest with you, we were going to delist him anyway so just take him in the preseason draft
GWS - We can't. The rules preclude us from taking a second uncontracted player from the same club so we have to trade. What do you want?
Dogs - Anything is a bonus. I'm pretty busy so why don't you prepare the paperwork and just tell me where to sign
GWS - The other option is that you just let him go and the AFL will give you a compensation pick
Dogs - What, we can get another one? Deal! Wait till I tell the members. They'll think I'm a genius!

Yes, very funny, HKB. You just never know, that might be how it went!!

[bornadog]

of course it is. Everyone who has spent more than 2 minutes looking into the draft knows this. Yet apparently we should praise our staff for doing it...........

Just because I have put down Fantasia before doesn't mean my point is any less valid here, he just literally had nothing to do in this instance except say "yes you can take him". I think he has made some good decisions too for those that wonder.

Oh Give it up. At least they got the deal done.

[Topdog]

Oh Give it up. At least they got the deal done.

give what up? Actually no deal was done, we haven't traded him, we've been compensated for him.

[bornadog]

give what up? Actually no deal was done, we haven't traded him, we've been compensated for him.

Its still a deal, we had to agree to let him go.

[Topdog]

Its still a deal, we had to agree to let him go.

Cool, I'll join your side of the fence. Everything is fantastic!

[bornadog]

Cool, I'll join your side of the fence. Everything is fantastic!

Perfect:D

[LostDoggy]

Personally I have no reason to say upgrading Mulligan and Hooper was wrong. We have given these guys a go at senior footy. Some footballers we recruit don't even make it to one game.

Mulligan at 201cm, and very athletic and only 21 years old, why wouldn't you give him a go? OK, at this stage he has not worked out and may never work out, but good on the club for taking a chance, as 201cm athletic mobile footballers, don't grow on trees and do take longer to mature.

. Not overly happy here Bornadog. You've called Mulligan a footballer.

[bornadog]

Not overly happy here Bornadog. You've called Mulligan a footballer.

How many games did you play;)

[Desipura]

How many games did you play;)

Mulligan was put in a list based on his physical attributes, not on his ability to play AFL.

[anfo27]

Mulligan was put in a list based on his physical attributes, not on his ability to play AFL.

and thats not good enough. We can not make list management decisions based on this and we have a lot of work to do in this area if we want to be competitve.

[chef]

When do we find out our compo?

[azabob]

When do we find out our compo?

Hopefully after the national draft so we are not tempted to use it! ;)

[jasopan]

So in essence we get a first, second and third round pick for Ward?

[Drunken Bum]

So in essence we get a first, second and third round pick for Ward?

how did you work this out?
i wish
we got a first round compo pick for Ward(to be taken straight after our 1st round pick), nothing more nothing less

[Topdog]

how did you work this out?
i wish
we got a first round compo pick for Ward(to be taken straight after our 1st round pick), nothing more nothing less

just continuing the fantasy that Ward really helped us out I guess

[bornadog]

AFL has advised W Bulldogs it will receive a round three compensation selection for the loss of Sam Reid to GWS Giants in 2011 post-season.

We can use the Reid compensation pick after our round three pick in any one of 2011-2015 NAB AFL Drafts.

[The Underdog]

AFL has advised W Bulldogs it will receive a round three compensation selection for the loss of Sam Reid to GWS Giants in 2011 post-season.

We can use the Reid compensation pick after our round three pick in any one of 2011-2015 NAB AFL Drafts.

Tough to argue with that. Now will we be patient enough to wait until we're really crap to use it? :)

[BulldogBelle]

So our round 3 selection this year is pick 57 (we have another one at 49 which was from our Hill trade)

We would be better keeping that pick in our back pocket for future years given its low position this year

Given we initially paid pick #35 for Reid, and put 3 years of development into him - compensation stinks - but given he was never going to be a >100 gamer and would have been delisted this season it isnt too bad

[divvydan]

If were were to finish mid-table next year, say 10th, and every compensation pick ahead of ours was to be used next year (including our Ward one) and 2 teams had priority picks, then next year it would be pick #57.

Basically, absolute worst case scenario would be that the pick is the same next year (in number) as this year.

[Topdog]

absolute worst case is around 70 - GWS can pick up players next year like this year and clubs will be compensated. But obviously that won't happen.

btw was just reading the following

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/86738/default.aspx

Does the following mean that even if we were stupid enough the AFL wouldn't let us use the Ward compo pick this year?


Compensation picks will be tradeable and can be used by clubs at any time within five years covering the period 2011 to 2015. First round compensation picks can not be until the 2012 draft onwards

[chef]

absolute worst case is around 70 - GWS can pick up players next year like this year and clubs will be compensated. But obviously that won't happen.

btw was just reading the following

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/86738/default.aspx

Does the following mean that even if we were stupid enough the AFL wouldn't let us use the Ward compo pick this year?

Fantasia has come out and said that we will be using both compo picks next year.

[The Doctor]

Fantasia has come out and said that we will be using both compo picks next year.

I think that's a good idea.

I'm sure we will have quite a few likely to go next year like Hargrave & Gilbee if they survive this years cull and several others coming near the end like Lake, Gia, Murphy, Boyd, Cross.

Load up in a strong draft.

[Topdog]

Fantasia has come out and said that we will be using both compo picks next year.

yes but would we be able to if we wanted to.

[Drunken Bum]

yes but would we be able to if we wanted to.

My understanding is that yes we could but the Ward pick would become an end of first round pick rather than following our normal pick. I stand to be corrected but i'm pretty sure that is the case

Edit: I just read the article and that seems to be saying different, have they changed the rules from last year re compo picks or is the article misleading?