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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
To clarify Motlop and Rockliff both netted their clubs end of first round compensation. I would be shocked if anyone offered Dahl a large enough contract to trigger higher compensation than end of first round. Motlop reportedly only just scrapped into that band of compensation.
I was more thinking of Frawley & Goddard compo. And yep, I can't see Dahl getting such an offer. But as a thinking point, it does no harm thinking through various scenarios. Especially not knowing how Sam Power will go about things, especially this first year.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PeanutsPeanuts
Geelong got a first round pick for Motlop last year, for a reported $500k 4 year contract.
We can't use the Motlop trade as a precedent - it was vintage AFEL makey-uppey designed to give GC proper compensation for losing Ablett and Geelong not having to give up anything to bring him back.
If by some remote chance Dahl is offered a lucrative contract that would net us a significant draft pick (ie: inside the top 10) we would be derelict in our duty not to at least look at it. But the problem is that the AFEL can simply change the parameters of what the compensation should be, so there's no guarantee of anything.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Contracts up in 2018
Clay Smith
Dale Morris
Fergus Greene
Jordan Roughead
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Luke Dahlhaus
Matt Suckling
Mitch Honeychurch
Mitch Wallis
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell
Tom Liberatore
Tory Dickson
Zaine Cordy
Billy Gowers (R)
Brad Lynch (R)
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)
Roarke Smith (R)
Who do we not re-sign?
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Contracts up in 2018
Clay Smith
Dale Morris
Fergus Greene
Jordan Roughead
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Luke Dahlhaus
Matt Suckling
Mitch Honeychurch
Mitch Wallis
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell
Tom Liberatore
Tory Dickson
Zaine Cordy
Billy Gowers (R)
Brad Lynch (R)
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)
Roarke Smith (R)
Who do we not re-sign?
I don't know but premiership hero Shane Biggs timing is appalling. He's picked the worst year ever to have a continuing firm slump. If he doesn't get some form back he would be on the list to get the lemonade.
Tom Campbell is moving into eker territory. And we really can't afford to indulge ourselves with ekers.
Clay Smith. I can't see him ever getting back to his best.
Lin Jong and Mitch Honeychurch. Is their best ever going to be good enough? Maybe as players in really good teams where they have one job to do, but we are a long way from being a good team ATM.
Tory Dickson? He has spent a lit of time in the sidelines with "old man" soft tissue injuries the last couple of seasons. At his best he brings a lot but his best looks more and more to be in the past. Outside of the odd glimpse like goals from tge boundary and chase down and tackles.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
As of now I’d not offer contracts to
Clay Smith
Dale Morris
Mitch Honeychurch
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell
Brad Lynch (R)
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)
Roarke Smith (R)
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azabob
As of now I’d not offer contracts to
Clay Smith
Dale Morris
Mitch Honeychurch
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell
Brad Lynch (R)
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)
Roarke Smith (R)
Why not Biggs Aza?
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azabob
As of now I’d not offer contracts to
Clay Smith
Dale Morris
Mitch Honeychurch
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell
Brad Lynch (R)
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)
Roarke Smith (R)
Fergus Greene would want to show significant improvement for the rest of this season to feel safe. Ditto Kieran Collins when he returns from injury.
Roughy, Jong, Suckers and Wally are a watch for various reasons. Roughy for his limitations to play one position and being usurped by English already. Jong still hasn't quite cemented his spot in the seniors after a number of years. Suckers is deserving of another year on current form but age is an issue. Wally is in the same boat as Jong. All of Jong, Suckers and Wally have the chance for the remainder of this year to play themselves into another contact. Roughy is an interesting one - if English continues to command #1 ruck position, do we keep him as insurance? Will he consider going to another club for greater opportunities?
Plenty to play out for the remainder of the season.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sedat
Fergus Greene would want to show significant improvement for the rest of this season to feel safe. Ditto Kieran Collins when he returns from injury.
Roughy, Jong, Suckers and Wally are a watch for various reasons. Roughy for his limitations to play one position and being usurped by English already. Jong still hasn't quite cemented his spot in the seniors after a number of years. Suckers is deserving of another year on current form but age is an issue. Wally is in the same boat as Jong. All of Jong, Suckers and Wally have the chance for the remainder of this year to play themselves into another contact. Roughy is an interesting one - if English continues to command #1 ruck position, do we keep him as insurance? Will he consider going to another club for greater opportunities?
Plenty to play out for the remainder of the season.
Providing Wally continues his current form line he's going to be a Bulldogs player next year. Averaging 21 touches, 5 marks, 5 tackles and a goal a game in a fragmented midfield suggests he's going pretty well. We also need to be mindful of how he looks after one less than ideal season following a disgusting injury, and an interrupted preseason. He's safer with his kicking than many, and is extremely good with hands in close. Putting him in the same category as Jong is rubbish IMO, Wally has a much better track record.
Onto Jong, I've never thought he was AFL material however, he's coming back from a knee and is likely to struggle this year no matter what. Perhaps he's no good, perhaps he's gotten injured at the wrong time and would as a minimum be considered as a Rookie option for next year...........
I like Suckling more than others, I'm really concerned about Roughead however.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azabob
As of now I’d not offer contracts to
Clay Smith
Dale Morris
Mitch Honeychurch
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell
Brad Lynch (R)
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)
Roarke Smith (R)
I reckon that's pretty close. If Picken's long term health and ability to live life well is compromised, I'd like him to retire on ill health as a hero - not a delisting at all. Although maybe Biggs stays on less cash, wrong time for bad form. For me, Collins also stays for one more year - a make or break year. I'd keep Suckers, but I wonder if he will finally go over to the USA to try out punting and thus retire. Not sure why Redders got two years, but he stays unles we 'Cloke' him to keep another player. I really like Lukas Webb, but I think we've stuffed his development and he needs a new club to thrive, heading into.... Then there's fringe players requesting trades out, Webb, Roberts etc. Or free agents if Dahl and Roughy get good offers.
In all, a fair few moved on. Talk about a huge year for Power and the draft team.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Contracts up in 2018
Clay Smith
Dale Morris
Fergus Greene
Jordan Roughead
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Luke Dahlhaus
Matt Suckling
Mitch Honeychurch
Mitch Wallis
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell
Tom Liberatore
Tory Dickson
Zaine Cordy
Billy Gowers (R)
Brad Lynch (R)
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)
Roarke Smith (R)
Who do we not re-sign?
I would say that Libba, Wallis, Dahl, Roughy, Cordy, Suckling, Jong and Gowers have show enough to be definite re-signs.
Morris and Dickson just need to show that their bodies are still up to it.
The other 8 all need to show improved form to warrant another contract for mine, could be a big post season coming up.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Pretty much nailed it Aza . Roberts and Red have another year ?
I could see Wally staying ahead of Jong , and I think big Tom Campbell is gone .
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Collins is a tricky one. He is still young and deserves more time, but with Cordy, Young and Naughton going past him, Trengove coming in, Adams in the mix and Roberts still contracted, is he simply surplus to requirements? If we could trade him for say something in the 30s/40s would we take it?
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PeanutsPeanuts
Collins is a tricky one. He is still young and deserves more time, but with Cordy, Young and Naughton going past him, Trengove coming in, Adams in the mix and Roberts still contracted, is he simply surplus to requirements? If we could trade him for say something in the 30s/40s would we take it?
I'd rather keep Collins an extra year, and if it's a delistment next year so be it. Koby Stevens was a deficit draft points trade, Collins current worth is even less than that. No one wanted Campbell or Honeychurch last year at the trade table. If someone has to move, who has any value, I'd nominate Roberts to move on.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
I'd rather keep Collins an extra year, and if it's a delistment next year so be it. Koby Stevens was a deficit draft points trade, Collins current worth is even less than that. No one wanted Campbell or Honeychurch last year at the trade table. If someone has to move, who has any value, I'd nominate Roberts to move on.
I disagree that Collins trade value would be less than Stevens. He is a high draft pick 20yo kpp, totally different to a mid20s mid. I agree if his trade value is minimal then keep him.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PeanutsPeanuts
I disagree that Collins trade value would be less than Stevens. He is a high draft pick 20yo kpp, totally different to a mid20s mid. I agree if his trade value is minimal then keep him.
Let's focus on agreement, I think we keep him. Koby showed he could play at the level. But I still like Collins, it's just he shares the same DNA as Tom Williams. So I'd give him one more. But if he can't string AFL games together by next year, I think that's an easy delisting. But I'm hoping we can get him fit and strong and have an even bigger fight to get picked in the back 6. Just not sure I'd put money on it.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PeanutsPeanuts
Trengove coming in
Listening to Bevo today, he said when he spoke to Trengove about coming to the club, it was for mainly Ruck/Fwd duties and he would only go back to FB if we had to send him there. So we can assume he is not a backman.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Listening to Bevo today, he said when he spoke to Trengove about coming to the club, it was for mainly Ruck/Fwd duties and he would only go back to FB if we had to send him there. So we can assume he is not a backman.
But Trengove has said he has trained for all 3 positions at the Dogs and he has played a lot of footy there for Port. I think he would play there if required and can be included in the stock that give us kpd depth.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PeanutsPeanuts
I disagree that Collins trade value would be less than Stevens. He is a high draft pick 20yo kpp, totally different to a mid20s mid. I agree if his trade value is minimal then keep him.
Collins would be worth about as much as Jason Tutt, who was picked up by Carlton as a DFA. Ditto Hamling, DFA.
He's played one game in 3 years and is not quick in an era where teams are playing smaller and faster forwardlines.
If we did trade him I assume it would be for a pick with little to no points value attached.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mofra
Collins would be worth about as much as Jason Tutt, who was picked up by Carlton as a DFA. Ditto Hamling, DFA.
He's played one game in 3 years and is not quick in an era where teams are playing smaller and faster forwardlines.
If we did trade him I assume it would be for a pick with little to no points value attached.
You may be right but the difference between Collins and others you mentioned is that he came into the system highly valued. Players like Aish, Anderson and O'Meara (and many others) were considered flops at their first club but still attracted high trade values (all got first rounders or equivalent). Collins will have depreciated, but not enough to be valueless.
I don't see any evidence that key defenders are of diminishing value. We used a top 10 for Naughton, Melbourne used 2 first rounders for Lever and Carlton recently used a #1 for Weitering. Although small forwardlines are fashionable, all teams still use at least 1 tall forward (some 2 or 3) so teams still need a few kpds on their list.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Listening to Bevo today, he said when he spoke to Trengove about coming to the club, it was for mainly Ruck/Fwd duties and he would only go back to FB if we had to send him there. So we can assume he is not a backman.
Do you think Trengove will make it?
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kruder
Do you think Trengove will make it?
So far I am not impressed. GWS game he had 3 handballs and a kick, which was a massive worry. I will wait and see on this one as I know he played some good footy at Port.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
So far I am not impressed. GWS game he had 3 handballs and a kick, which was a massive worry. I will wait and see on this one as I know he played some good footy at Port.
He did play a big chunk of that game at FF in a team getting flogged. In R2 he looked better largely playing kpd (13 posessions) despite injuring his shouder. Agree jury is still out though.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
So far I am not impressed. GWS game he had 3 handballs and a kick, which was a massive worry. I will wait and see on this one as I know he played some good footy at Port.
The concern for mine is that Trengove has started like he finished at Port. I cant remember a player playing second grade football getting a 3 year deal at another club.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kruder
The concern for mine is that Trengove has started like he finished at Port. I cant remember a player playing second grade football getting a 3 year deal at another club.
How quickly we forget "explosive animal" Liam Jones.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Looking at Ports defence now, they have a pretty good backline in Housten, jonas, howard, Darcy Byrne-Jones, Jack Hombsch and Marshall. Marshal looks like a good player who knows how to kick, play at both ends and a good mark.
I can see now why port let him go. Is Trengrove more just depth as our Young backmen mature? Giving 3 years sounds like a reasonable insurance time for them to developer. Trengrove offers bonus of playing in ruck, so our younger players don't get smashed in that position.
Kinda like keep jarred waite for Wood of north melbourne.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kruder
Do you think Trengove will make it?
Trengrove will be our Chris Mayne unfortunately.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bullies
Trengrove will be our Chris Mayne unfortunately.
I don't believe it will be that bad. He was brought in as a second ruck/Fwd as our young rucks develop.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bullies
Trengrove will be our Chris Mayne unfortunately.
We've already had a Jade Rawlings.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Anyone interested in De Goey?
He seems like a little bastard but he is also an incredible talent. He's come back from his suspension looking like a Toby Greene clone, and is the sort of player we really need. Plus there's clearly a lot of upside there.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
If he up for trade or out of contract?
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Happy Days
Anyone interested in De Goey?
He seems like a little bastard but he is also an incredible talent. He's come back from his suspension looking like a Toby Greene clone, and is the sort of player we really need. Plus there's clearly a lot of upside there.
How would a trade look?
P.s. Out of contract Hujsh
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
How would a trade look?
P.s. Out of contract Hujsh
Cannot see him leaving Collingwood
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Cannot see him leaving Collingwood
I can't see us putting up something worth Collingwood considering it. This year is difficult for us unless a big name leaves us, bigger than a Dahl type.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
(I swear I already posted this so sorry if it doubles up)
Couldn't we just sign him?
If we have a more attractive offer and he wants to come then realistically, between the tremendous influence of the AFLPA and the general culture around free agency and overcompensation, Collingwood probably won't be able to do much besides bluster to stop it.
It's easy to say "our first pick" but giving up a good first round pick never really works, and developing the best talent from the draft (which you 90% of the time get inside the top 10-15) is always the best way to build a list. If we absolutely have to trade I would want it to be a player/second-pick package (Dunkley/Young/Williams?), but I'd much prefer RFA.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
De Goey is going to be very expensive ($700-$800K a season). Hard to see him leaving the Pies. Kind of owes it to them to sign on again!
Huge talent.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Happy Days
(I swear I already posted this so sorry if it doubles up)
Couldn't we just sign him?
If we have a more attractive offer and he wants to come then realistically, between the tremendous influence of the AFLPA and the general culture around free agency and overcompensation, Collingwood probably won't be able to do much besides bluster to stop it.
It's easy to say "our first pick" but giving up a good first round pick never really works, and developing the best talent from the draft (which you 90% of the time get inside the top 10-15) is always the best way to build a list. If we absolutely have to trade I would want it to be a player/second-pick package (Dunkley/Young/Williams?), but I'd much prefer RFA.
DeGoey's not eligible for any form of free agency.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Happy Days
(I swear I already posted this so sorry if it doubles up)
Couldn't we just sign him?
If we have a more attractive offer and he wants to come then realistically, between the tremendous influence of the AFLPA and the general culture around free agency and overcompensation, Collingwood probably won't be able to do much besides bluster to stop it.
It's easy to say "our first pick" but giving up a good first round pick never really works, and developing the best talent from the draft (which you 90% of the time get inside the top 10-15) is always the best way to build a list. If we absolutely have to trade I would want it to be a player/second-pick package (Dunkley/Young/Williams?), but I'd much prefer RFA.
This is where Dahl is vital this year with RFAs. The key to really abusing free agency to me is to try to eliminate incoming and outgoing agents in the one period. Carlton brought in Daisy Thomas, let go Eddie Betts and got no compo. Far from ideal.
If Dahl is going to sign, then I'd go hard at Gaff. Hard. But if Dahl goes for a first rounder compo, and Gaff's contract is equal or more then there's no compo for us. It's just effectively a trade, not a very good player for no loss. Roughy won't change the free agency needle if he wanted to look around, but Dahl could. So hopefully we are trying to nail things down.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
DeGoey's not eligible for any form of free agency.
Well there you go.
Guess it would have to be a trade - I'd probably do any of those I outlined.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Cannot see him leaving Collingwood
He is an absolute gun and will only get better.
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Re: The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
This is where Dahl is vital this year with RFAs. The key to really abusing free agency to me is to try to eliminate incoming and outgoing agents in the one period. Carlton brought in Daisy Thomas, let go Eddie Betts and got no compo. Far from ideal.
If Dahl is going to sign, then I'd go hard at Gaff. Hard. But if Dahl goes for a first rounder compo, and Gaff's contract is equal or more then there's no compo for us. It's just effectively a trade, not a very good player for no loss. Roughy won't change the free agency needle if he wanted to look around, but Dahl could. So hopefully we are trying to nail things down.
I think you maybe over estimating the value of Dahl in free agency. No one showed much interest last year and so not sure they will up the ante this year.