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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
6 would be a considerable cut. I can't come up with 6 names on the primary list unless we aggressively trade... Minson, Prudden, Hamilton, Jong, Stevens & Hrovat/Honeychurch ???
There is also the option of potentially offering up a rookie spot to an unlucky player. It's a long shot but still a chance.
I just don't know how Stevens name even enters the discussion of a trade or delisting player at the end of the season unless he demands it and I can't see that happening.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
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Originally Posted by
marcov
Matty may make the decision himself.
Is B Dale a lock to stay then?
Of course Matthew Boyd might that decision.
I think Bailey Dale is contracted until the end of next season. We need to be patient with him but I've also liked what I've seen.
I'd just about lock it in.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Nice post G. So much in there to think about and discuss.
I wonder if we cut the rookie list hard and cut Adcock, Goetz & R. Smith feeling up 3 spots whether Matty Boyd would be up for a potential move to the rookie list as our senior player for 2017 (while still getting two kids). With Clay, Libba & Bob next year we could well afford someone like Boyd to replace them of there were knee issues or other players with LTIs. He'd be light years ahead of Goodes & Adcock. The issue would be whether North would steal Boyd before us in the RD.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
There is also the option of potentially offering up a rookie spot to an unlucky player. It's a long shot but still a chance.
I just don't know how Stevens name even enters the discussion of a trade or delisting player at the end of the season unless he demands it and I can't see that happening.
I think Stevens name was mentioned in getting a trade into the top 6 picks by upgrade.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
Nice post G. So much in there to think about and discuss.
I wonder if we cut the rookie list hard and cut Adcock, Goetz & R. Smith feeling up 3 spots whether Matty Boyd would be up for a potential move to the rookie list as our senior player for 2017 (while still getting two kids). With Clay, Libba & Bob next year we could well afford someone like Boyd to replace them of there were knee issues or other players with LTIs. He'd be light years ahead of Goodes & Adcock. The issue would be whether North would steal Boyd before us in the RD.
In my opinion, with a player like Matthew Boyd his legacy should not be tarnished by a soft decision to put him on a rookie list. He needs to be either 100% in or 100% out.
I have no problems with players like Goodes or Adcock on rookie lists. Exactly what we needed when we needed to make that decision.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
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Originally Posted by
Rocco Jones
Yeah I don't get the touchy call either.
It seems like the argument for him being possibly delisted is 'forget that he is in really good form, WHAT IF HE REALLY STRUGGLES?!'.
What if Dale Morris goes form being out marked twice in the season to getting bags kicked on him each week?!
I dont think its that at all.
Guys of Boyd and Moz age come with a significant risk and far lower future value. Moz is not easily replaceable but Boyd would be (easier in my opinion), Moz can play on the tall and brutish then blanket Betts. Both give their all.
At the end of the season you may be deciding between two players, humour me, Boyd M and HC (and the incumbent). That would be a hard choice.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
In my opinion, with a player like Matthew Boyd his legacy should not be tarnished by a soft decision to put him on a rookie list. He needs to be either 100% in or 100% out.
I have no problems with players like Goodes or Adcock on rookie lists. Exactly what we needed when we needed to make that decision.
Fair call. In thinking of our flankers next year we have Bob, JJ, Wood, Biggs, Suckling, Williams, Daniel, Cordy, Webb, Dale, Lynch, (Roarke). Is that sufficient back flank depth for the list if Boyd is asked to retire on top of his game?
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
Fair call. In thinking of our flankers next year we have Bob, JJ, Wood, Biggs, Suckling, Williams, Daniel, Cordy, Webb, Dale, Lynch, (Roarke). Is that sufficient back flank depth for the list if Boyd is asked to retire on top of his game?
Seems to be plenty and versatility is the key. Most of the guys listed can play in a few positions.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
I remember how quickly players of the quality of West and Johnson dropped off and plenty on here were saying we kept them on too long and couldn't make the tough call etc. I'd hate to see a champion player struggling again and if it has to be done to keep a promising player on the list, then the 35 year old may be the one who has to go.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
I remember how quickly players of the quality of West and Johnson dropped off and plenty on here were saying we kept them on too long and couldn't make the tough call etc. I'd hate to see a champion player struggling again and if it has to be done to keep a promising player on the list, then the 35 year old may be the one who has to go.
When it comes to picking players week in week out, age should have no bearing, you pick the best players. List management is different. Hawks say hello.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
I find the discussion on Matty intriguing currently he is one of the first picked if his form sticks so does he. Keeping a younger player with heaps of upside makes no sense to me Boyd is already there and we all know his fitness is legendary .I can't see him spiralling downward in my eyes he stays if he says he is up to it.and his form holds.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
I remember how quickly players of the quality of West and Johnson dropped off and plenty on here were saying we kept them on too long and couldn't make the tough call etc. I'd hate to see a champion player struggling again and if it has to be done to keep a promising player on the list, then the 35 year old may be the one who has to go.
I thought we made the call on West and his knee, he wanted to play on. Johnno got to call time on himself, you don't tap a player like Johnno on the shoulder. As Strebla says Boyd plays next year and if his form drops he's dropped to the seconds.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
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Originally Posted by
bornadog
When it comes to picking players week in week out, age should have no bearing, you pick the best players. List management is different. Hawks say hello.
Yep absolutely. List management is different, it requires you to be more ruthless with older guys who are sitting in the 19-22nd player picked category than match day selection.
However certainly atm Boyd doesn't fall into this category. He is having a great year and remains one of our best defenders.
Also our list is in entirely different shape to Hawthorns. The only reason Hawthorn are so hell bent on turning over their older blokes is because they have so many. We are the complete opposite. Our list is incredibly young (on the weekend we had maybe 6 players older than Redpath) and there is no need to make the early call on older blokes like the Hawks or even our 2011 team.
Someone earlier used the example of West and Johnson dropping off and maybe the call had to be made. In their case I agree, Johnno was showing big signs in his second last year that he was dropping off and I remember being a little surprised he was continuing, West I cannot remember the circumstances around but he did cop a serious injury which stopped him pretty quick.
Boyd is the odd one out in that he has shown no sign of injury and contrary to our expectations is performing to as high a standard as ever. Last year he wouldn't have been far off AA and this year hasn't been far off that standard. Unless he starts showing big signs of dropping off later this season I think he gets another year, and even if he does decline I see him as being able to perform the requirements of the Adcock/Goodes spot on our list.
Also I like the double standards we are showing by being all for a Murphy comeback but sceptical about Boyd continuing. One has suffered multiple knee reco's and is missing almost an entire season in the middle of his thirties while another has yet to miss any extended period of time and remains an integral part of our lineup and in excellent form. They have both captained the club and are coming off AA squad worthy seasons, yet one is being pushed towards retirement and the other has been begged to keep going.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
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Originally Posted by
soupaman
Also I like the double standards we are showing by being all for a Murphy comeback but sceptical about Boyd continuing. One has suffered multiple knee reco's and is missing almost an entire season in the middle of his thirties while another has yet to miss any extended period of time and remains an integral part of our lineup and in excellent form. They have both captained the club and are coming off AA squad worthy seasons, yet one is being pushed towards retirement and the other has been begged to keep going.
It's an interesting point you have raised. I think the certainty of the Murphy decision regarding the 2017 season and the uncertainty of Boyd going beyond this year is one of the factors in the discussions so far.
To me, it's way too early to predict that Boyd should not be part of the 2017. There is still plenty of this season to play out.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
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Originally Posted by
1eyedog
I thought we made the call on West and his knee, he wanted to play on. Johnno got to call time on himself, you don't tap a player like Johnno on the shoulder. As Strebla says Boyd plays next year and if his form drops he's dropped to the seconds.
No you line him up with a golf cart.:(
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Great discussion.
Like most, it's hard to forecast at the moment and all of the names being mentioned (besides Prudden) have half a season to play themselves onto the 2017 list.
If forced to make a call right now:
Minson - been a good player for our club, but doesn't feature in our plans moving forward
Prudden - injury hit at the wrong time, we have a number of players ahead of him
Hrovat - we haven't seen his best but he hasn't been able to get any continuity and has others ahead of him
Jong - I really like what he offers, but he hasn't been able to translate strong VFL form into AFL form
Hrovat and Jong are good chances to find other clubs and have prospects of good careers, but we've got to have belief that players we could pick up in the first few rounds of the draft can come in and improve our list. If we package them up in the right kind of deal maybe involving 2 other clubs we could end up with a similar draft position to this year with a couple of picks around the 20 mark which would be nice and perhaps those picks could trade us up into an early selection.
Anyway, a lot to play out before seasons end.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soupaman
Yep absolutely. List management is different, it requires you to be more ruthless with older guys who are sitting in the 19-22nd player picked category than match day selection.
However certainly atm Boyd doesn't fall into this category. He is having a great year and remains one of our best defenders.
Also our list is in entirely different shape to Hawthorns. The only reason Hawthorn are so hell bent on turning over their older blokes is because they have so many. We are the complete opposite. Our list is incredibly young (on the weekend we had maybe 6 players older than Redpath) and there is no need to make the early call on older blokes like the Hawks or even our 2011 team.
Someone earlier used the example of West and Johnson dropping off and maybe the call had to be made. In their case I agree, Johnno was showing big signs in his second last year that he was dropping off and I remember being a little surprised he was continuing, West I cannot remember the circumstances around but he did cop a serious injury which stopped him pretty quick.
Boyd is the odd one out in that he has shown no sign of injury and contrary to our expectations is performing to as high a standard as ever. Last year he wouldn't have been far off AA and this year hasn't been far off that standard. Unless he starts showing big signs of dropping off later this season I think he gets another year, and even if he does decline I see him as being able to perform the requirements of the Adcock/Goodes spot on our list.
Also I like the double standards we are showing by being all for a Murphy comeback but sceptical about Boyd continuing. One has suffered multiple knee reco's and is missing almost an entire season in the middle of his thirties while another has yet to miss any extended period of time and remains an integral part of our lineup and in excellent form. They have both captained the club and are coming off AA squad worthy seasons, yet one is being pushed towards retirement and the other has been begged to keep going.
Great post as per usual soupaman. Just on the Boyd / Murphy discussion I think it comes down to their points of difference. Boyd is replaceable, Murphy less so. Sure they are / were both operating at capacity but Murph can do everything that Boyd can do but is better by foot, better at carrying the ball and generating attack out of defence. Boyd is a solid medium backman who is cool under pressure and that is it.
If both fit Murph offers so much more so its natural to wish him to continue, he's a one in a decade player for our club but if it comes down to Murph, Biggs, JJ, Wood and Boyd in the backline then Boyd is not in my best 22.
As you say at worse he would be a massive upgrade on the Goodes / Adcock type role.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
When it comes to picking players week in week out, age should have no bearing, you pick the best players. List management is different. Hawks say hello.
Geez Minson sure was crucified on the former last year. We sure got away with picking Ayce over him somehow.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Another player I feel is now under the pump, is Bailey Dale. Needs to start showing more. He hasn't been super impressive in the VFL and needs to start getting more of the ball.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Another player I feel is now under the pump, is Bailey Dale. Needs to start showing more. He hasn't been super impressive in the VFL and needs to start getting more of the ball.
Agree, but I think until he has a 'mans body' we aren't going to see the best of him.. We seriously need a player with his traits (good user, footy smarts) in the team, but his form doesn't warrant selection at the moment.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Bit early on Bailey Dale . Yeah he needs to improve aspects of his game , but then again all young players do.
Boyd's been just as good as last year and I can see him going around again.
If the form drops he'll be replaced by a few ready to go
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marcov
Geez Minson sure was crucified on the former last year. We sure got away with picking Ayce over him somehow.
They had to give Ayce a run at it, we had to see what he had to offer.
Sadly not a lot .
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Another player I feel is now under the pump, is Bailey Dale. Needs to start showing more. He hasn't been super impressive in the VFL and needs to start getting more of the ball.
Agreed. I always thought he was a bit of a one trick pony with a sense of positioning himself for the cheapies. Time will tell.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Another player I feel is now under the pump, is Bailey Dale. Needs to start showing more. He hasn't been super impressive in the VFL and needs to start getting more of the ball.
He's certainly a player that I'd be sticking with.
I get why his name might be mentioned but he's basically one and a half seasons into a career and yet we are expecting more from him.
The days of playing 50 or 60 reserves games before the call up to the seniors and supporters patiently waiting are as good as over. Like Webb I think Dale might be a victim of achieving too much in his first season. For what it's worth I think he is signed until the end of next season
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
I like to put in a word for Jong (and perhaps 1 or 2 others). Clubs play about 35 players from their list of 40 every year. If everyone on your list was first 22 quality, you would bleed players. So, the reality is you need some players who you might not consider first 22 but who will be available to step in as required. Some of these players could be 4 to 8 years on your list without being list cloggers. It is a fine line but you can't have 40 Bontempellis on your list and you don't want to be wallowing in last place because you are forever turning over 18 year olds hoping for instant stars.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
He's certainly a player that I'd be sticking with.
I get why his name might be mentioned but he's basically one and a half seasons into a career and yet we are expecting more from him.
The days of playing 50 or 60 reserves games before the call up to the seniors and supporters patiently waiting are as good as over. Like Webb I think Dale might be a victim of achieving too much in his first season. For what it's worth I think he is signed until the end of next season
Agree strongly. I think he is the sort who only needs to improve a few things to become a very good player. A bit of composure and poise some confidence in his ability and we could have a quality ball user.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
We need more outside, reasonably, long & bullet like kick players. Not everyone needs to be a hard at it, inside player. I think Bailey Dale is a "keeper", unless another club offers us something pretty good. He has that smooth style like Bob. I think the MC see this and that's why he has been elevated a few times. Also a reasonably reliable kick for goal. Lanky, however I think he will fill out a bit more and become a good player for us in a few years.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
josie
We need more outside, reasonably, long & bullet like kick players. Not everyone needs to be a hard at it, inside player. I think Bailey Dale is a "keeper", unless another club offers us something pretty good. He has that smooth style like Bob. I think the MC see this and that's why he has been elevated a few times. Also a reasonably reliable kick for goal. Lanky, however I think he will fill out a bit more and become a good player for us in a few years.
Thinks his way through situations really quickly too. It may not always come off at the moment though. Hopefully with experience he works out what he can and can't do and plays in several premierships with us.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Nick Bowen from AFL.com has us linked with Wood (NM) Nicholls (GC) & Vardy (Geel)
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Doctor
Nick Bowen from AFL.com has us linked with Wood (NM) Nicholls (GC) & Vardy (Geel)
Thanks Doc. Any basis to it, or did he pick 3 big blokes and forget to mention John Butcher?
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Mason Wood can play. North would be crazy not to keep playing him.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
Thanks Doc. Any basis to it, or did he pick 3 big blokes and forget to mention John Butcher?
It came from his online chat re:trading speculation when someone asked him who the dogs were into. There was no elaboration.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Doctor
Nick Bowen from AFL.com has us linked with Wood (NM) Nicholls (GC) & Vardy (Geel)
There's been a few mentions of us being interested in Nicholls, may be something to it. Not sure what that would mean for Camhead.
I like Wood, but not sure how he fits into our forward line.
Vardy would want to remain injury free for the rest of this season for us to consider him.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
There's been a few mentions of us being interested in Nicholls, may be something to it. Not sure what that would mean for Camhead.
I like Wood, but not sure how he fits into our forward line.
Vardy would want to remain injury free for the rest of this season for us to consider him.
Apparently Bevo coached Nicholls brother at St.Bedes. Not sure if that is got anything to do with it but was mentioned in the HUN.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Axe Man
Vardy would want to remain injury free for the rest of this season for us to consider him.
In other words, we won't consider him.
Gun when fit, but Tom Williams pities Nathan Vardy. He is that unlucky with his body.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Mason Wood? Yes please.
I'd be all over it if there's any possibility. Will be a genuine gun.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bulldogs Bite
Mason Wood? Yes please.
I'd be all over it if there's any possibility. Will be a genuine gun.
Which is why it is so puzzling North have only really started consistently playing him when injuries hit.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Scott plays his favourites, that's why it's an aging list. Very hard for some young players to get games.
Wood had been killing it in the twos for a while.
The loss of Higgins helped his cause, personally I wouldn't have chased Higgins and just played Wood.
But I suppose premiership window is open so get in Higgins .. I don't think Nth are looking to the future and are looking at a flag this year.
God help nth in a year or two when the older guys retire and they aren't getting good draft picks.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Good post Ledge, agree with all of the above.
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Re: The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Doctor
Nick Bowen from AFL.com has us linked with Wood (NM) Nicholls (GC) & Vardy (Geel)
All decent names to be linked with. I wonder what we would need top part with to land one or two of them?