Mike Sheahan Ready to Put Bontempelli on E.J's Level at the Western Bulldogs

[jeemak]

There are some things you just don?t put on the record.

Why not?

[jeemak]

Less?

Jack Collins was a superstar. Charlie Sutton is a bullgod and Merv Hobbs was a Morris/Wood hybrid according to the old heads over heard talk about them.

I meant more broadly across the competition, in his era.

[Bulldog Joe]

I always read this debate in a different way. When you compare EJ with Bont, I consider it as though we are comparing them player vs player and not in their own respective eras.

Yes EJ was dominant in his own era, and you could argue Bont may not even be in the conversation of best player for the last 20 years, but if you were to pit them one against each other in any era, Bont would be the superior player without question.

I know it's not that cut and dry, and EJ played in the era where football was not a professional sport by any means, but as far as football ability goes, I can't see how Bont will not end up as the best bulldog player to ever pull on the jumper. Could you imagine if we transported Bont back to the 50s to play footy? He'd be seen as an alien. 194cms tall, quick, strong, skilled and smart, running 14kms a game.

That's the fun of the discussion I suppose, you can't actually compare them, so we may as well just enjoy we're watching one of the all time greats in person and in high definition every weekend.

The counter to this would be the actual improvement EJ would have achieved with the professional era and improved training and sport science.

EJ was universally considered the BEST of his era.
Bont is superb but the modern professional era has elevated the game, so the stars just need to be better.

Comparing EJ and Bont is a little like comparing Herb Elliott with the next Olympic 1500 winner.

Elliot was dominant above all his peers to an unrivalled extent.
Even though the current runners all record better times they don't match the dominance.

[D Mitchell]

Hobbs roving to John Schultz was one of the greatest combinations ever. Right their with Farmer/Goggin at Geelong and Nichols/Gallagher at Carlton. What Hobbs could do that they couldn't, though, was elevate for an absolute speckie.

Interesting perspective. 1961, Hobbs' first year, aside, the Club was awful in the early to mid '60s so that aspect didn't get much airing. Smart bloke, Hobbs, he'd grown up in Spotswood or one of those suburbs between Footscray and Willi. He worked out that the Club looked first at Country leagues before local leagues in recruiting so went bush hence recruited from Daylesford. He coached in the western suburbs and ended up as a president of Williamstown FC. He set up a printing business and called it "Hi Mark Press", promoted by the famous mark over Trevor Johnson.

[Axe Man]

Interesting perspective. 1961, Hobbs' first year, aside, the Club was awful in the early to mid '60s so that aspect didn't get much airing. Smart bloke, Hobbs, he'd grown up in Spotswood or one of those suburbs between Footscray and Willi. He worked out that the Club looked first at Country leagues before local leagues in recruiting so went bush hence recruited from Daylesford. He coached in the western suburbs and ended up as a president of Williamstown FC. He set up a printing business and called it "Hi Mark Press", promoted by the famous mark over Trevor Johnson.

Do you know why he retired from VFL at just 23?

Edit: Just read it was a serious knee injury. What a shame.

[D Mitchell]

Do you know why he retired from VFL at just 23?

Edit: Just read it was a serious knee injury. What a shame.

...and at pre season training, hello Bailey Smith, the dreaded knee. It's fair to say that but for the knee, he couldabeen. A prequel to Cooney.

[bornadog]

...and at pre season training,

It was in a preseason game (Ansett cup or whatever they called it) with a minute left on the clock

[D Mitchell]

...

Elliot was dominant above all his peers to an unrivalled extent.....

According to Harry Gordon (Journalist, author of the Elliott Bio) Never beaten over a mile or 1,500 metres. That's Don Bradman territory.

[D Mitchell]

It was in a preseason game (Ansett cup or whatever they called it) with a minute left on the clock

The VFL/AFL pre season Cups started in 1988, Hobbs' knee was in 1966. I concede that I didn't attend any of the preseason training sessions in 1966 so rely on the unreliability of memory of what was in the Footscray Advertiser or Footscray Mail (ah, memories). What's the source ?

[Axe Man]

Sorry for getting off topic but this is a great article published just prior to the 2016 prelim v GWS:

AFL finals: New Dogs pulling off old tricks at Footscray

The Bulldogs were young, fast, full of momentum and excited about it. They won two finals in a row and put a summary end to the season of maybe the greatest team of all. As in 2016, so in 1961.

The Bulldogs, nee Footscray, have only won one preliminary final, that one. To reach their only other grand final, in 1954, they proceeded directly from the second semi-final. In the big one, they beat Melbourne. The Demons played in the next six grand finals, and won five premierships, until stopped again by the Dogs in the '61 preliminary. Footy is full of poetical parentheses.

In 1961, gentleman ruckman John Schultz was best-on-ground and diminutive rover Merv Hobbs just about vaulted Melbourne's Tassie Johnson, his legs bending up behind him as he flew, to take a mark for the ages. Hobbs says he has met 200,000 people who were there to see it. Hobbs would like it known that he did other things in footy. But he would also like it to be remembered that he went back and kicked the goal that finished off Melbourne.

Long before interchange, rover Hobbs was "resting" in the forward pocket and ruckman Johnson "resting" in the back pocket. Some rest! Schultz remembers that Hobbs did not ride Johnson in the usual way. "I didn't touch him," Hobbs said. "I had a bit of a natural spring. I used to practise on my brother in the back bedroom for years." He says he took many similar marks in juniors and at Daylesford, but a sharp photographer froze and immortalised this one.

Hobbs, remember, stood 172 centimetres. "The only bloke shorter than me is probably the little fellow who's playing for Footscray at the moment," he said.

Years later, journalist Scott Palmer took Hobbs and the late, legendary Ted Whitten to the MCG to re-enact the mark for a Channel 7 special. Hobbs remembers that Palmer caught and tore his pants to the backside on the picket fence as they tried to climb it, and had to be rescued by Whitten and himself. Camera rolling, Palmer asked Whitten about the mark. "It was f--- beautiful," he exclaimed. Flustered, Palmer stopped the shoot and asked for a more presentable take. "It was like a rocket taking off from Cape Canaveral," said Whitten.

Hobbs was Bulldog through and through. He grew up in West Footscray, with a Footscray player boarding in the next bedroom. At two, he was a mascot. At nine was "signed" by the Dogs, and soon playing in their junior team. But because of an imminent change of zones that would have put him in South Melbourne's clutches, Footscray packed him off to Daylesford at 16. He has fond memories still.

After three games of the 1961 season, still just 18, he was leading the competition goalkicking and the Courier Medal voting and the Dogs decided to bring him back. But a clearance wrangle developed, keeping him out for a month, and was resolved only when Hobbs paid ?20 out of his own pocket. In round eight, he played his first Footscray game.

Schultz had come from the other direction, from Caulfield Grammar, where he was high jump champion, via Boort. Hobbs remembers a man so humble that one day he asked his father, also Merv, how he might stop dropping marks. This was after he had won the 1960 Brownlow Medal. Hobbs, senior, suggested that he was closing his eyes at impact.

The 1961 season developed to a point where Footscray and Geelong effectively played off in the last round for a place in the finals. More than 42,000, easily the biggest crowd of the round, crammed the Western Oval, undeterred by the elements. "Cripes, it pissed down rain," said Hobbs. "There was mud and shit everywhere."

The Dogs won, and the next week beat St Kilda in the first semi. They were brimming with youthful verve. Their average age was barely 22, with only two players older than 24. Compare that with the "young" Bulldogs now, average age 24?. Schultz and Hobbs both see shades of their Bulldog team in today's. "We were very young," said Schultz. "We were all of the same era. We were quick and keen and eager." Or as Hobbs put it: "We ran like buggery."

The flick pass, a half-throw, was in vogue, perfected by Whitten, and his Dogs used it to set a blistering pace. Formidable Melbourne, with Ron Barassi at his peak, did not scare them. "Our attitude was, we're on a roll, let's go as far as we can," said Schultz. Schultz also distinctly remembers a televised interview Melbourne's John Lord gave after the Demons had lost the second semi-final to Hawthorn. "We'll beat them next time," Lord had said. But what about Footscray, he was asked? "Oh, we'll beat them." "I was irritated by that," said Schultz.

The Bulldogs jumped Melbourne and won easing down by 27 points. But Hawthorn in the grand final was another matter. The Hawks were in the charge of John Kennedy, and this team was his incipient Kennedy's Commandos. Centreman Brendan Edwards, a fitness fanatic way ahead of his time, worked with Kennedy to drill the Hawks as no team before them. "They were super fit," said Schultz. "You'd hear rumours." When it comes to an edge in fitness, you still do!

"They'd have wheat bags on their backs," said Schultz, "and they'd run up mountains just to get themselves fit. We were pretty fast, but we weren't physically built up like Hawthorn."

The day was hot, and although the Dogs led by eight points at half-time, they knew they were in trouble. "There were eight of us in the first-aid room," said Hobbs. Remembered Schultz: "The selectors looked around and could see we were in a bad way. In those days, strange to realise, we didn't hydrate. We were told not to drink too much in case we got cramps. We just ran out of legs. And Hawthorn were brutal. They made every contest a physical clash. They wore us down." In the second half, the Hawks scooted away to win their first premiership.

In footy, there is no time like now. The youthful Dogs might have imagined a gathering era, but they did not play finals again for 13 years, and had not won two finals in a row from that September to this. Schultz went on to win five best-and-fairests and a place in the AFL Hall of Fame. But in the pre-season of 1966, Hobbs' knee sprang apart. "These days, I'd be off for 12 months, then play for another 10 years," he said. He remembers the doctor saying to club secretary Ted Collins: "The kid won't play sport again." "It was a nice kick up the bum," he said.

He started his own printing business, but did play on, spasmodically, in the VFA and elsewhere, also coached Footscray's under 19s and served as Williamstown's president. He played his last game at 52, for the Hervey Bay reserves in Queensland. "I couldn't help myself," he said. "I finished up with a black eye. They had to push me out of bed for three weeks."

Now 74, he lives in Ararat, playing golf and this week tipping 125 millimetres of water out of his rain gauge. He loves what he sees of the 2016 Bulldogs, but is worried about Greater Western Sydney. "They're a bloody good side," he said. "If the Bulldogs can beat them, they'll go premiers. I've got no fears about the other two sides." Hobbs will have his fingers crossed especially on behalf of three old Western Oval mates who are, shall we say, struggling for match fitness.

Schultz, 77, served the club in sundry roles, and also on the league tribunal, and is still involved with the Dogs as a mentor. He lives at Shoreham, with a sweeping view of Phillip Island, and plays golf and tennis. His wife, Elaine, died three years ago. "Tell you what, she was keener on the Bulldogs than me," he said. "She'll be looking down from up there."

Schultz cherishes this Bulldogs team for their resilience and their poise, but especially the hope they have inspired. "You've only got to look at the expressions on the faces at training last week," he said. "It was only training, but some of them had tears in their eyes."

Some things have their day: amateurs (Schultz was one), Mervs, resting ruckmen and rovers, Cape Canaveral in everyday conversation. And some never will, like the frisson in Melbourne when the Bulldogs get up a head of September steam.

[EasternWest]

Sorry for getting off topic but this is a great article published just prior to the 2016 prelim v GWS:

AFL finals: New Dogs pulling off old tricks at Footscray

The Bulldogs were young, fast, full of momentum and excited about it. They won two finals in a row and put a summary end to the season of maybe the greatest team of all. As in 2016, so in 1961.

The Bulldogs, nee Footscray, have only won one preliminary final, that one. To reach their only other grand final, in 1954, they proceeded directly from the second semi-final. In the big one, they beat Melbourne. The Demons played in the next six grand finals, and won five premierships, until stopped again by the Dogs in the '61 preliminary. Footy is full of poetical parentheses.

In 1961, gentleman ruckman John Schultz was best-on-ground and diminutive rover Merv Hobbs just about vaulted Melbourne's Tassie Johnson, his legs bending up behind him as he flew, to take a mark for the ages. Hobbs says he has met 200,000 people who were there to see it. Hobbs would like it known that he did other things in footy. But he would also like it to be remembered that he went back and kicked the goal that finished off Melbourne.

Long before interchange, rover Hobbs was "resting" in the forward pocket and ruckman Johnson "resting" in the back pocket. Some rest! Schultz remembers that Hobbs did not ride Johnson in the usual way. "I didn't touch him," Hobbs said. "I had a bit of a natural spring. I used to practise on my brother in the back bedroom for years." He says he took many similar marks in juniors and at Daylesford, but a sharp photographer froze and immortalised this one.

Hobbs, remember, stood 172 centimetres. "The only bloke shorter than me is probably the little fellow who's playing for Footscray at the moment," he said.

Years later, journalist Scott Palmer took Hobbs and the late, legendary Ted Whitten to the MCG to re-enact the mark for a Channel 7 special. Hobbs remembers that Palmer caught and tore his pants to the backside on the picket fence as they tried to climb it, and had to be rescued by Whitten and himself. Camera rolling, Palmer asked Whitten about the mark. "It was f--- beautiful," he exclaimed. Flustered, Palmer stopped the shoot and asked for a more presentable take. "It was like a rocket taking off from Cape Canaveral," said Whitten.

Hobbs was Bulldog through and through. He grew up in West Footscray, with a Footscray player boarding in the next bedroom. At two, he was a mascot. At nine was "signed" by the Dogs, and soon playing in their junior team. But because of an imminent change of zones that would have put him in South Melbourne's clutches, Footscray packed him off to Daylesford at 16. He has fond memories still.

After three games of the 1961 season, still just 18, he was leading the competition goalkicking and the Courier Medal voting and the Dogs decided to bring him back. But a clearance wrangle developed, keeping him out for a month, and was resolved only when Hobbs paid ?20 out of his own pocket. In round eight, he played his first Footscray game.

Schultz had come from the other direction, from Caulfield Grammar, where he was high jump champion, via Boort. Hobbs remembers a man so humble that one day he asked his father, also Merv, how he might stop dropping marks. This was after he had won the 1960 Brownlow Medal. Hobbs, senior, suggested that he was closing his eyes at impact.

The 1961 season developed to a point where Footscray and Geelong effectively played off in the last round for a place in the finals. More than 42,000, easily the biggest crowd of the round, crammed the Western Oval, undeterred by the elements. "Cripes, it pissed down rain," said Hobbs. "There was mud and shit everywhere."

The Dogs won, and the next week beat St Kilda in the first semi. They were brimming with youthful verve. Their average age was barely 22, with only two players older than 24. Compare that with the "young" Bulldogs now, average age 24?. Schultz and Hobbs both see shades of their Bulldog team in today's. "We were very young," said Schultz. "We were all of the same era. We were quick and keen and eager." Or as Hobbs put it: "We ran like buggery."

The flick pass, a half-throw, was in vogue, perfected by Whitten, and his Dogs used it to set a blistering pace. Formidable Melbourne, with Ron Barassi at his peak, did not scare them. "Our attitude was, we're on a roll, let's go as far as we can," said Schultz. Schultz also distinctly remembers a televised interview Melbourne's John Lord gave after the Demons had lost the second semi-final to Hawthorn. "We'll beat them next time," Lord had said. But what about Footscray, he was asked? "Oh, we'll beat them." "I was irritated by that," said Schultz.

The Bulldogs jumped Melbourne and won easing down by 27 points. But Hawthorn in the grand final was another matter. The Hawks were in the charge of John Kennedy, and this team was his incipient Kennedy's Commandos. Centreman Brendan Edwards, a fitness fanatic way ahead of his time, worked with Kennedy to drill the Hawks as no team before them. "They were super fit," said Schultz. "You'd hear rumours." When it comes to an edge in fitness, you still do!

"They'd have wheat bags on their backs," said Schultz, "and they'd run up mountains just to get themselves fit. We were pretty fast, but we weren't physically built up like Hawthorn."

The day was hot, and although the Dogs led by eight points at half-time, they knew they were in trouble. "There were eight of us in the first-aid room," said Hobbs. Remembered Schultz: "The selectors looked around and could see we were in a bad way. In those days, strange to realise, we didn't hydrate. We were told not to drink too much in case we got cramps. We just ran out of legs. And Hawthorn were brutal. They made every contest a physical clash. They wore us down." In the second half, the Hawks scooted away to win their first premiership.

In footy, there is no time like now. The youthful Dogs might have imagined a gathering era, but they did not play finals again for 13 years, and had not won two finals in a row from that September to this. Schultz went on to win five best-and-fairests and a place in the AFL Hall of Fame. But in the pre-season of 1966, Hobbs' knee sprang apart. "These days, I'd be off for 12 months, then play for another 10 years," he said. He remembers the doctor saying to club secretary Ted Collins: "The kid won't play sport again." "It was a nice kick up the bum," he said.

He started his own printing business, but did play on, spasmodically, in the VFA and elsewhere, also coached Footscray's under 19s and served as Williamstown's president. He played his last game at 52, for the Hervey Bay reserves in Queensland. "I couldn't help myself," he said. "I finished up with a black eye. They had to push me out of bed for three weeks."

Now 74, he lives in Ararat, playing golf and this week tipping 125 millimetres of water out of his rain gauge. He loves what he sees of the 2016 Bulldogs, but is worried about Greater Western Sydney. "They're a bloody good side," he said. "If the Bulldogs can beat them, they'll go premiers. I've got no fears about the other two sides." Hobbs will have his fingers crossed especially on behalf of three old Western Oval mates who are, shall we say, struggling for match fitness.

Schultz, 77, served the club in sundry roles, and also on the league tribunal, and is still involved with the Dogs as a mentor. He lives at Shoreham, with a sweeping view of Phillip Island, and plays golf and tennis. His wife, Elaine, died three years ago. "Tell you what, she was keener on the Bulldogs than me," he said. "She'll be looking down from up there."

Schultz cherishes this Bulldogs team for their resilience and their poise, but especially the hope they have inspired. "You've only got to look at the expressions on the faces at training last week," he said. "It was only training, but some of them had tears in their eyes."

Some things have their day: amateurs (Schultz was one), Mervs, resting ruckmen and rovers, Cape Canaveral in everyday conversation. And some never will, like the frisson in Melbourne when the Bulldogs get up a head of September steam.

Off topic you say? Can I Setka this thread?

[D Mitchell]

Sorry for getting off topic but this is a great article published just prior to the 2016 prelim v GWS:

AFL finals: New Dogs pulling off old tricks at Footscray

The Bulldogs were young, fast, full of momentum and excited about it. They won two finals in a row and put a summary end to the season of maybe the greatest team of all. As in 2016, so in 1961.

The Bulldogs, nee Footscray, have only won one preliminary final, that one. To reach their only other grand final, in 1954, they proceeded directly from the second semi-final. In the big one, they beat Melbourne. The Demons played in the next six grand finals, and won five premierships, until stopped again by the Dogs in the '61 preliminary. Footy is full of poetical parentheses.

In 1961, gentleman ruckman John Schultz was best-on-ground and diminutive rover Merv Hobbs just about vaulted Melbourne's Tassie Johnson, his legs bending up behind him as he flew, to take a mark for the ages. Hobbs says he has met 200,000 people who were there to see it. Hobbs would like it known that he did other things in footy. But he would also like it to be remembered that he went back and kicked the goal that finished off Melbourne.

Long before interchange, rover Hobbs was "resting" in the forward pocket and ruckman Johnson "resting" in the back pocket. Some rest! Schultz remembers that Hobbs did not ride Johnson in the usual way. "I didn't touch him," Hobbs said. "I had a bit of a natural spring. I used to practise on my brother in the back bedroom for years." He says he took many similar marks in juniors and at Daylesford, but a sharp photographer froze and immortalised this one.

Hobbs, remember, stood 172 centimetres. "The only bloke shorter than me is probably the little fellow who's playing for Footscray at the moment," he said.

Years later, journalist Scott Palmer took Hobbs and the late, legendary Ted Whitten to the MCG to re-enact the mark for a Channel 7 special. Hobbs remembers that Palmer caught and tore his pants to the backside on the picket fence as they tried to climb it, and had to be rescued by Whitten and himself. Camera rolling, Palmer asked Whitten about the mark. "It was f--- beautiful," he exclaimed. Flustered, Palmer stopped the shoot and asked for a more presentable take. "It was like a rocket taking off from Cape Canaveral," said Whitten.

Hobbs was Bulldog through and through. He grew up in West Footscray, with a Footscray player boarding in the next bedroom. At two, he was a mascot. At nine was "signed" by the Dogs, and soon playing in their junior team. But because of an imminent change of zones that would have put him in South Melbourne's clutches, Footscray packed him off to Daylesford at 16. He has fond memories still.

After three games of the 1961 season, still just 18, he was leading the competition goalkicking and the Courier Medal voting and the Dogs decided to bring him back. But a clearance wrangle developed, keeping him out for a month, and was resolved only when Hobbs paid ?20 out of his own pocket. In round eight, he played his first Footscray game.

Schultz had come from the other direction, from Caulfield Grammar, where he was high jump champion, via Boort. Hobbs remembers a man so humble that one day he asked his father, also Merv, how he might stop dropping marks. This was after he had won the 1960 Brownlow Medal. Hobbs, senior, suggested that he was closing his eyes at impact.

The 1961 season developed to a point where Footscray and Geelong effectively played off in the last round for a place in the finals. More than 42,000, easily the biggest crowd of the round, crammed the Western Oval, undeterred by the elements. "Cripes, it pissed down rain," said Hobbs. "There was mud and shit everywhere."

The Dogs won, and the next week beat St Kilda in the first semi. They were brimming with youthful verve. Their average age was barely 22, with only two players older than 24. Compare that with the "young" Bulldogs now, average age 24?. Schultz and Hobbs both see shades of their Bulldog team in today's. "We were very young," said Schultz. "We were all of the same era. We were quick and keen and eager." Or as Hobbs put it: "We ran like buggery."

The flick pass, a half-throw, was in vogue, perfected by Whitten, and his Dogs used it to set a blistering pace. Formidable Melbourne, with Ron Barassi at his peak, did not scare them. "Our attitude was, we're on a roll, let's go as far as we can," said Schultz. Schultz also distinctly remembers a televised interview Melbourne's John Lord gave after the Demons had lost the second semi-final to Hawthorn. "We'll beat them next time," Lord had said. But what about Footscray, he was asked? "Oh, we'll beat them." "I was irritated by that," said Schultz.

The Bulldogs jumped Melbourne and won easing down by 27 points. But Hawthorn in the grand final was another matter. The Hawks were in the charge of John Kennedy, and this team was his incipient Kennedy's Commandos. Centreman Brendan Edwards, a fitness fanatic way ahead of his time, worked with Kennedy to drill the Hawks as no team before them. "They were super fit," said Schultz. "You'd hear rumours." When it comes to an edge in fitness, you still do!

"They'd have wheat bags on their backs," said Schultz, "and they'd run up mountains just to get themselves fit. We were pretty fast, but we weren't physically built up like Hawthorn."

The day was hot, and although the Dogs led by eight points at half-time, they knew they were in trouble. "There were eight of us in the first-aid room," said Hobbs. Remembered Schultz: "The selectors looked around and could see we were in a bad way. In those days, strange to realise, we didn't hydrate. We were told not to drink too much in case we got cramps. We just ran out of legs. And Hawthorn were brutal. They made every contest a physical clash. They wore us down." In the second half, the Hawks scooted away to win their first premiership.

In footy, there is no time like now. The youthful Dogs might have imagined a gathering era, but they did not play finals again for 13 years, and had not won two finals in a row from that September to this. Schultz went on to win five best-and-fairests and a place in the AFL Hall of Fame. But in the pre-season of 1966, Hobbs' knee sprang apart. "These days, I'd be off for 12 months, then play for another 10 years," he said. He remembers the doctor saying to club secretary Ted Collins: "The kid won't play sport again." "It was a nice kick up the bum," he said.

He started his own printing business, but did play on, spasmodically, in the VFA and elsewhere, also coached Footscray's under 19s and served as Williamstown's president. He played his last game at 52, for the Hervey Bay reserves in Queensland. "I couldn't help myself," he said. "I finished up with a black eye. They had to push me out of bed for three weeks."

Now 74, he lives in Ararat, playing golf and this week tipping 125 millimetres of water out of his rain gauge. He loves what he sees of the 2016 Bulldogs, but is worried about Greater Western Sydney. "They're a bloody good side," he said. "If the Bulldogs can beat them, they'll go premiers. I've got no fears about the other two sides." Hobbs will have his fingers crossed especially on behalf of three old Western Oval mates who are, shall we say, struggling for match fitness.

Schultz, 77, served the club in sundry roles, and also on the league tribunal, and is still involved with the Dogs as a mentor. He lives at Shoreham, with a sweeping view of Phillip Island, and plays golf and tennis. His wife, Elaine, died three years ago. "Tell you what, she was keener on the Bulldogs than me," he said. "She'll be looking down from up there."

Schultz cherishes this Bulldogs team for their resilience and their poise, but especially the hope they have inspired. "You've only got to look at the expressions on the faces at training last week," he said. "It was only training, but some of them had tears in their eyes."

Some things have their day: amateurs (Schultz was one), Mervs, resting ruckmen and rovers, Cape Canaveral in everyday conversation. And some never will, like the frisson in Melbourne when the Bulldogs get up a head of September steam.

Since you've now completely wrecked this thread and stand to be banned, Axeman, I'm happy to pick over the bones. But because of an imminent change of zones that would have put him in South Melbourne's clutches, Footscray packed him off to Daylesford at 16. He has fond memories still That's different from what I'd heard/read. The older brother of a mate of mine played for the 2s in that era but when not selected and queried it, was told by a member of the selection committee that country boys were given preference which accommodated what I understood happened in Hobbs' case. Great article. Thanks.

[Grantysghost]

Off topic you say? Can I Setka this thread?

Shit yeah.

[D Mitchell]

It's about time footy kept out of politics.

[Bulldog Joe]

According to Harry Gordon (Journalist, author of the Elliott Bio) Never beaten over a mile or 1,500 metres. That's Don Bradman territory.

Interesting fact is that the last defeat ever suffered by Herb Elliott was over 1000 yards with a loss to Tasmanian Greg Blake.

Greg was personally known to me and unfortunately passed away with MND about 25 years ago.