Tim English - What Price do you pay?

[Virgin-Dog]

Have to go back on what I?ve said previously in this thread. With the increase in cap, his potential million dollar deal is only really the equivalent of $750k in recent year, but even that feels a massive stretch now to pay.

He doesn?t have enough impact around the ground these days to justify the massive salary. I?d rather push forward with Lobb/Darcy and invest that salary in a quality defender like Barrass and forget about English dropping back to intercept.

In a few years time when Lobb is done, Lachie Smith may be ready to take over anyway. He?s looked great for such a young player in the VFL, and wouldn?t get bullied in stoppages like English does.

If English accepts a shorter deal on ~$700k then sure. But geez I?d be hesitant to pay much more. He?s gone a mile backwards this year

[chef]

Are we happy for Lobb to be our number 1 ruck next season?

[bulldogtragic]

Are we happy for Lobb to be our number 1 ruck next season?

If we have a top 10 pick and salary and the pick from Baz to chase a Barass. Then from an overall perspective yes, unless a cheap option comes about like maybe Ladhams.

[jeemak]

Are we happy for Lobb to be our number 1 ruck next season?

No. If you reckon Tim is ineffective over the course of a game week-in week-out then you're going to be really livid once you see what Lobb dishes up, with Darcy as his sidekick.

The market will dictate what Tim's ultimately worth, and if that's $1m p.a. then so be it. I just want to limit the exposure in terms of years.

[G-Mo77]

Are we happy for Lobb to be our number 1 ruck next season?

I wouldn't say happy but think it's a better option for the team going forward. Lobb/Darcy is what I'd be looking next season and spend the money we would have put into English elsewhere.

[GVGjr]

Are we happy for Lobb to be our number 1 ruck next season?

It's not something that I think will work for a long stretch in a season.

[jeemak]

I wouldn't say happy but think it's a better option for the team going forward. Lobb/Darcy is what I'd be looking next season and spend the money we would have put into English elsewhere.

This is the problem though, on who do we spend that money? Do we add a couple of depth players? Do we land that big fish who has historically never come to the Bulldogs?

Do we front load a couple of contract extensions?

I don't see how any of these are equal to or materially better than worrying about paying English his market value. Landing the big fish would be great, but it will take a change in historical outcomes for it to happen.

[Danjul]

Needs a quick paced player always running past and getting the handball off English so the ball moves quickly. Gary Dempsey one of the all time great ruckman, rarely kicked the ball, he was a shocking kick. However, he always had someone there to take the handball and move the ball.

This ?run-past? aspect is a serious omission in our recent games.

We replaced it with mark the ball ? stop ? shuffle back ? stop ? look backwards? think about it? when you are sure the opposition backs are in place? long bomb.

yesterday Port moved the ball very quickly, often without looking because the game plan said someone will be there, so the forwards still had space to work in. JUH is playing poorly, but part of it is because he is playing with a defender in position. The modern game is move fast through the corridor and kick in front of a forward moving diagonally into empty space near goal. We usually lack the fast, corridor, diagonal and space aspects.

[Sedat]

Interesting stat on English from Champion Data this week. In 2023 English was the 17th rated player in the competition when he was AA ruckman - by contrast in every other season since 2019 (including this year) he has not even been in the top 160 players in the comp in any of those years.

That is not the profile you want from a 5+ year $1m a season player, and perhaps that is why there has been a cooling off of genuine interest from other clubs. Important 7 weeks coming up for Tim to put it mildly.

[Grantysghost]

Interesting stat on English from Champion Data this week. In 2023 English was the 17th rated player in the competition when he was AA ruckman - by contrast in every other season since 2019 (including this year) he has not even been in the top 160 players in the comp in any of those years.

That is not the profile you want from a 5+ year $1m a season player, and perhaps that is why there has been a cooling off of genuine interest from other clubs. Important 7 weeks coming up for Tim to put it mildly.

It's that competitive edge that is a real issue with Tim since always.

Matt Rendell when he was Pies recruiter had this concern on him as a u/18.

[Bullies]

I wouldn't say happy but think it's a better option for the team going forward. Lobb/Darcy is what I'd be looking next season and spend the money we would have put into English elsewhere.

Who would we spend the money on? We are not a destination club unfortunately.

Maybe we reinvent Tim and play him as a CHB.

I think his value has definitely dropped as clubs are not willing to pay the currency his manangement think he is worth. If they were it would be out there by now.

[Mofra]

I wouldn't say happy but think it's a better option for the team going forward. Lobb/Darcy is what I'd be looking next season and spend the money we would have put into English elsewhere.

Lobb is a better ruckman. I will die on this hill.
English is incredible around the ground, perhaps the best in the AFL at it, but at his peak his ruck work is 'passable'.

Use the cash on Langdon (covers the loss of English's link play) + a mature back up ruck. Lobb/Darcy 50/50

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting stat on English from Champion Data this week. In 2023 English was the 17th rated player in the competition when he was AA ruckman - by contrast in every other season since 2019 (including this year) he has not even been in the top 160 players in the comp in any of those years.

That is not the profile you want from a 5+ year $1m a season player, and perhaps that is why there has been a cooling off of genuine interest from other clubs. Important 7 weeks coming up for Tim to put it mildly.

Even if he has an ok 7 weeks, I think he’s shown every 18 clubs what he really is and what he’s not. What he may be isn’t worth the years with concussion risk and certainly isn’t worth the huge hit to a salary cap. I really hope he turns his year around but he seems absent and I can’t remember a single player in a huge contract year delivering such an average pitch for a huge contract. If other club interest stops way short, the compo might not be a top 10 pick and then what.?.?.?.,

[Bullies]

Even if he has an ok 7 weeks, I think he’s shown every 18 clubs what he really is and what he’s not. What he may be isn’t worth the years with concussion risk and certainly isn’t worth the huge hit to a salary cap. I really hope he turns his year around but he seems absent and I can’t remember a single player in a huge contract year delivering such an average pitch for a huge contract. If other club interest stops way short, the compo might not be a top 10 pick and then what.?.?.?.,

Agree. Being one hit away from retirement it is a huge investment by another club knowing what the outcome could be for such a large investment. There is also the legal side that clubs would need to worry about as well.

I think our club have been generous in their current offer and that there maybe a bit of "buyer beware" in the market place.

[bulldogtragic]

Agree. Being one hit away from retirement it is a huge investment by another club knowing what the outcome could be for such a large investment. There is also the legal side that clubs would need to worry about as well.

I think our club have been generous in their current offer and that there maybe a bit of "buyer beware" in the market place.

I wonder then how long it takes for him to sign the contract as I doubt we’ve pulled it? He’s clearly in no rush to accept our offer but at some point he’s going to have to accept he’s simply not worth his ambit claim. If the media reporting on other clubs is accurate and say the best he gets is 4 years around $800,000 that might NOT trigger band 1 compo, so the compo will be pick 33-35 after higher compo shuffles picks down. It’s not worth letting him go for a mid-30’s pick. He’s really complicated everything with such a poor year.

As he’s an RFA and we can match the bid. I’d not sign him and see what the market says to see if we wrangle a top 10 pick or if not, keep him at market rates which is lower.

A few good games from here I don’t think changes anyone’s calculation. Tim should’ve just signed and focused on delivering on a really good contract.