Welcome to the Western Bulldogs Ryley Sanders

[jeemak]

I've noticed a fair bit of angst around the progress of Sanders, so thought I would do a bit of a comparison between him and the last two pure inside midfielders of similar height we spent high draft capital on. One still plays for us, another retired a couple of years ago and funnily is someone people believe Sanders is close to emulating:

Tom Liberatore

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...&fid1=O&fid2=O

Time on ground for Tom was ~13% higher than Sanders at this age. Sanders is a bit more effective with the footy, Tom has more of it, tackles are pretty much the same. Sanders is playing the roll up to the contest role, Libba was probably more inside and when not, a true forward.

Mitch Wallis

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...&fid1=O&fid2=O

Mitch had half the sample size of Sanders at the same age though efficiency is similar as is tackle count, time on ground is favoured towards Mitch by ~5%. From memory, and I'm prepared to be corrected here, Mitch spent more time on a flank than he did inside in his first season, or maybe even as the sub which might account for his lower possession count. Additionally, it felt to me in his first season Mitch had a harder time adjusting to the game than Libba did.


Not sure what any of it means, though Sanders is putting up OK numbers for someone of his physical attributes whilst playing a pretty difficult role where it's hard to feel completely involved in today's game where you're almost rewarded for not getting the footy as much as you are, if you're doing what the team needs. He's also not being hidden behind the ball in a shit team or a good one, instead the role he plays is critical to a middling one in transition.

I appreciate why people are worried about him though. He seems hesitant to move it forward, as the second possession out can be iffy or floaty with his kicking, and hasn't been assertive with his running in general play to hit the board. We also spent a lot of draft capital to land him.

But, I then look at another pure inside midfielder who cost us a lot in draft capital and was vaunted for his running capacity and attention to detail with training and preparation (much like Sanders).

Bailey Smith

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...&fid1=O&fid2=O

Smith spent about ~13% more time on ground but I'm not sure how the sub rule respectively impacts that. Disposal efficiency is about the same as are disposals and tackles. Smith hit the scoreboard in half his games which is a huge plus for a first year player.


Again, not sure what any of this means. The game has changed over each increment between the drafts these players were landed within, but I'm not sure I can wring my hands too much about where Sanders is placed right now.

Yes, he has to work on his forward movement, intent with his kicking (because we have seen he can flatly nail goals from fifty in preseason) and general involvement and decision making, but isn't that the case with all young players outside of the very elite?

[1eyedog]

Yes but does he 'crack in' like all your other examples do / did?

Seems very bruise free at present.

I'm not expecting big things from him at the moment but a bit more intent would be welcome. He's had a number of moments where I've wanted a bit more from him.

[jeemak]

Yes but does he 'crack in' like all your other examples do / did?

Seems very bruise free at the moment.

I disagree that he's bruise free and I also can't remember what the others were like in comparison at the same age, outside of him being lower than Libba and Smith in contested possessions, but ahead of Wallis but to me that's enough about role as anything else just looking at the numbers.

[1eyedog]

Bruise free might be strong words. Seems there's something holding him back though.

He's a kid in his first season so l'm not going to dump on him. There was a lot of preseason hype though and he does appears to be off the pace somewhat.

[jeemak]

Delete

[jeemak]

Agree something is holding him back, but I'm not sure what the pace setter looks like in the roll up to contest role he actually plays.

A lot of his peers have been played outside or behind the ball in their first years, while some like Rowell were just nuts around the contest given the opportunity to play a major role in the side.

Pick six in the draft versus pick one is a bit like a mid single handicap versus a scratch player in golf maybe. Technically and on paper close, but the difference between the two positions in practice is a lot when among high level competition.

[bornadog]

I will reserve my judgement till he hits at least 20 games.

Note: Games set by former WOOFER, SOS.

[Mofra]

Well, he was pick 6. Considering others at the pick:

2022: Bailey Humphrey
2021: Josh Rachele
2020: Denver Grainger-Barras
2019: Fisher McAsey
2018: Ben King
2017: Jaiden Stephenson

Ben King is a star, Humphrey ruined by injury, Rachele highly skilled but still nailing down his best, and Sanders already has the others covered.
Are we asking too much of him?

[jeemak]

EW's favourite from 2017 hasn't really done a lot.

Waiting for Scorlibo to deliver some statistical analysis through coding via Python/ R to show exactly what I'm talking about.

[1eyedog]

Well, he was pick 6. Considering others at the pick:

2022: Bailey Humphrey
2021: Josh Rachele
2020: Denver Grainger-Barras
2019: Fisher McAsey
2018: Ben King
2017: Jaiden Stephenson

Ben King is a star, Humphrey ruined by injury, Rachele highly skilled but still nailing down his best, and Sanders already has the others covered.
Are we asking too much of him?

Yes we probably are at this stage. I think the Bailey Smith noise as well is causing some of the hand wringing re. can Sanders live up to expectations considering we likely go one young gun down next season.

[jeemak]

I will reserve my judgement till he hits at least 20 games.

Note: Games set by former WOOFER, SOS.

BAD has killed off SonofScray.



Note - he means Sockeyesalmon

[Mantis]

The boy isn?t ready for this stage yet.

His first instinct when he gets the ball is to quickly pass it off, especially by hand and that?s what we need at present.

He needs to get to a position where he is comfortable to take space and then find a player in a better position than him or kick to the advantage of players upfield.

He should go back to the VFL team for the remainder of the season.

[Go_Dogs]

He’s not being asked (or required) to be the man. He’s being asked (I assume) to play a role. He seems to be doing that ok at the moment. He’s tackling better than he was at the start of the year - both intent and technique. His hands in gathering the ball seem good, his decision making and execution needs work, as it should as a first year player. Overall I’d say he’s going ok as a first year player.

What we’re all challenged by (I think) is we are all looking for that trait or two that scream “this kid is ELITE” but he probably isn’t going to be that type of player or give us those signs. He’s going to be a more death by a 1000 cuts type of player, who is consistent and reliable. I’m thinking he’s a combination of Macrae (more prime, than the current half forward incarnation) and Wallis (the midfield link player with good hands and short sharp kicking).

If he becomes a 200+ gamer in this mould that’s a good result.

Not every early player we draft is going to be Bont.

[bornadog]

Well, he was pick 6. Considering others at the pick:

2022: Bailey Humphrey
2021: Josh Rachele
2020: Denver Grainger-Barras
2019: Fisher McAsey
2018: Ben King
2017: Jaiden Stephenson

Ben King is a star, Humphrey ruined by injury, Rachele highly skilled but still nailing down his best, and Sanders already has the others covered.
Are we asking too much of him?

Jackson Macrae says hi

[ledge]

He isn’t bruise free , we see him tackle very well but it’s his attacking side I want to see . He isn’t breaking lines or taking the game on, his delivery is good but safe. As said in a previous post he tends to look for a small hand off as a first option like he isn’t confident to take a chance.
I don’t think he is getting the ball enough yet for his position either .
Bailey smith comparison is a good comparison as in Bailey has always ran and taken the game on , there were highlights .
Have we seen one highlight from Sanders yet ?
Most players in the first few games are told to go out and enjoy it and just run.
I think Sanders has a mental thought of not failing so won’t take a chance.
He is young and a long way to go but this is how I seen him so far.
We would be better with a Garcia in at the moment. Faster, harder and takes the game on.