Tim English - What Price do you pay?

[Mantis]

We've signed on with English for the longer term and while Bevo is at the helm it's not changing. Based on Darcy being such a good forward I'd be looking at some more support for English and grooming someone to really start challenging his position.

Wasn't that what we did with Sweet?

We brought him in as a young ruck and allowed him to develop into what is now a combative ruck who would complement our playing style, but he left for greater opportunities.

Wouldn't it just be rinse & repeat?

[bornadog]

The midfield hiding really shocked the coaching panel looking at the moves we made. English was as big part of that, our mids were looking to him for first use.

I mean our entire game is based on numbers at the contest, getting it inside 50 and keeping it in.

We removed the +1 at the contest as we couldn't contain them anywhere on the ground and had to shore up the defence.

We had 39 inside 50s for the game, and when it did go in it came out so easily.

I think we had Naughton in the ruck as a ruck/fourth mid with his follow up work thought to be capable of giving us something of a pseudo +1.

Bont was tagged out of it and we obliged their want moving him out of the game.

It was a dirty night for our system.

If you look at the numbers, ruck wasn't the biggest issue. Although Meek had 40 plus Hit outs, he only had a 25% return, ie 10 HTA. Tim and Darcy had 8, and we won the clearances in both the centre and stoppage. The biggest disappointment was the contested Poss, normally a strong point of ours - we got smashed and Meek lead the way and won the contest around the ground and that is where Hawks were effective.

As you say GG, the 39 inside 50s gave us no chance, again one of our normal strong points. Hawks were able to lock the ball in their half with their small forwards which we had no answer for.

[bulldogtragic]

If you look at the numbers, ruck wasn't the biggest issue. Although Meek had 40 plus Hit outs, he only had a 25% return, ie 10 HTA. Tim and Darcy had 8, and we won the clearances in both the centre and stoppage. The biggest disappointment was the contested Poss, normally a strong point of ours - we got smashed and Meek lead the way and won the contest around the ground and that is where Hawks were effective.

As you say GG, the 39 inside 50s gave us no chance, again one of our normal strong points. Hawks were able to lock the ball in their half with their small forwards which we had no answer for.

Meek had 10. I can’t find the stats myself (not looking in the right area I guess), how many did Tim get? Darcy? Naughton?

Thanks in advance.

[bornadog]

Meek had 10. I can’t find the stats myself (not looking in the right area I guess), how many did Tim get? Darcy? Naughton?

Thanks in advance.

Tim 5, Darcy 3 - didn't check Naughton, but can

Edit: Naughton 1 from 3 HO

So Hawks 10, Dogs 9

Hitouts are over rated. Where Meek was successful was around the ground play, normally Tim's domain.

Source: https://www.afl.com.au/stats/leaders...ayerTwoId=null

[Danjul]

The midfield hiding really shocked the coaching panel looking at the moves we made. English was as big part of that, our mids were looking to him for first use.

I mean our entire game is based on numbers at the contest, getting it inside 50 and keeping it in.

We removed the +1 at the contest as we couldn't contain them anywhere on the ground and had to shore up the defence.

We had 39 inside 50s for the game, and when it did go in it came out so easily.

I think we had Naughton in the ruck as a ruck/fourth mid with his follow up work thought to be capable of giving us something of a pseudo +1.

Bont was tagged out of it and we obliged their want moving him out of the game.

It was a dirty night for our system.

There were times during the Ballarat game when Naughton could not put weight through one of his legs. I was amazed to see him back in the ruck. He was better than in 2021 so that was a positive. Glad he didn?t injure himself.

English was poor. He has been in the past and will be again. Should have won the Brownlow as a key position player but instead we are hoping for a miracle cure to apply when he has a bad day. That was always a possibility because we saw Meek beat him earlier in the season.

Another similarity with that game, Hawks got 14 goals. Another, JUH got 4 disposals. Hawthorn was good, but we were so much worse than in round 8 or whenever it was. And that is with a stronger team. Why was that?

With respect to our system, there wasn?t any.

Look at when Dale was run down. He basically stopped and was looking for someone to kick to. Nobody was making a target. So we were back to our old style. Stop. Wait. Long bomb.

From where I was sitting the Hawks had a system where players were thinking and setting up 2 steps ahead. Very similar to what Geelong has.

look at Hawthorns small forwards. They position themselves as a group. With the obvious aim of working one of them into position to goal. Ours get where they can pressure backmen after an interception. No wonder people were leaving so early. It was a shambles for an hour.

[JanLorMill]

Hitouts are over rated. Where Meek was successful was around the ground play, normally Tim's domain.

You missed the Newcombe goal in the second quarter then? No all Tim's fault as Newcombe's man should have known it might happen. If hit outs are so overrated then why were their mids so aggressively positioned and our needed to be more defensive?
Though not a tap we even got a goal (Darcy) straight from ruck contest.

[macca]

That Newcombe goal from hitout was very frustrating to watch.
Tim got out position, Meek took front position again.

It was the whole side was ball watching Newcombe's pickup and goal.

Where was the pressure ????

[bornadog]

You missed the Newcombe goal in the second quarter then? No all Tim's fault as Newcombe's man should have known it might happen. If hit outs are so overrated then why were their mids so aggressively positioned and our needed to be more defensive?
Though not a tap we even got a goal (Darcy) straight from ruck contest.

HTA different story. That is why I point out pure HO compared to HTA.

[hujsh]

HTA different story. That is why I point out pure HO compared to HTA.

They have a point. If the other ruck wins the tap 60% of the time or more you can position aggressively to take advantage when they do get it to you. The opposition has to set up defensively/be reactive. Meek's 10 HTA are likely to be more impactful than Tim's 5 and have an influence on the setup of the mids.

Tim's the new Garry Rohan

[bulldogtragic]

They have a point. If the other ruck wins the tap 60% of the time or more you can position aggressively to take advantage when they do get it to you. The opposition has to set up defensively/be reactive. Meek's 10 HTA are likely to be more impactful than Tim's 5 and have an influence on the setup of the mids.

Tim's the new Garry Rohan

Ohh. You just didn’t did you?

[hujsh]

Ohh. You just didn’t did you?

Well I think he's a better bloke than Rohan but yeah, his finals record is pretty atrocious right now.

[bulldogtragic]

Well I think he's a better bloke than Rohan but yeah, his finals record is pretty atrocious right now.

I agree. Just didn’t expect such a brutal reality check.

But I’m sure his next final will be better…

[SonofScray]

English by name and nature.

[bornadog]

Tim's the new Garry Rohan

Rohan fractured his skull on the weekend playing in the VFL in a bid to play finals

[jeemak]

HTA different story. That is why I point out pure HO compared to HTA.

One of the issues BAD, is that each HTO we don't win is one in which we can't get a HTA. If English was a bit more aggressive and assured, his opponent would get less first hands onto it and Tim might get more. But importantly, our midfielders would be better positioned to dominate clearances more thoroughly than they already do, which is needed for us to dominate given our deficiencies in other areas.

My view is Tim's best years, injury avoided, will be between the ages of 28 and 33 as he will be his most physically developed during that time. We need to hold him more accountable and I'm hoping we can now he's contracted for the longer term.

We hold the whip hand, it's up to us to manage him.