Following our exes...................

[hujsh]

Re: Following our ex's...................

Maybe the heavily obese shouldn't have access to medical care, seeing as they disproportionately utilise a higher percentage of available hospital resources? Same with smokers and drinkers and drug addicts? I am being facetious of course, but it is a dangerous and very slippery slope segregating one section of the community from the rest of society. You don't need to look too far back in history to know this has utterly devastating and disastrous consequences.

It's not. One to combat a contagious disease causing a pandemic. The others are essentially social issues.

I don't know exactly which group/s in history you're trying to compare to the unvaccinated but I have a feeling knowing will only annoy me more.

[josie]

Re: Following our ex's...................

Read most of the posts including some on social media from dogs fans who are lauding Liam’s bravery to make such a decision. I do not normally comment on non direct football posts but I feel compelled to for this so here goes……

Elective surgeries some becoming urgent, cessation of breast screening and other flow on health impacts mean not getting jabbed goes way beyond being admitted into ICU or not. It’s the combined impact on the community and health system that’s the challenge and no amount of increasing hospital ICU or having at the ready or opening new wards for new covid cases could wave these compounding negative outcomes away. Didn’t I read somewhere we have or were importing health professionals from other countries at likely great cost to the public purse too? Also if left to spread there will likely be more mutations for which current vaccines may not be as effective. We are already looking at boosters and vaccines for under 12yo. I did not enjoy lockdowns but I’d rather what we went through thus far compared to say the US. And I’m ok, albeit not happy, if we have to again go into limited lockdown for some other strain or pandemic knowing scientists and health professionals will be doing their best to respond asap.

What no-one is talking about now (a little bit of press in 2020) is how a reduction in R&D post SARS and swine and bird flu a decade or so ago meant we in Australia and the rest of the western world were slower to respond with vaccines than likely would have been the case. That’s news worthy.

You could partially counter need to be vaccinated by saying thousands of lives have been saved with reduced influenza deaths but that’s simply a by product of improved hygiene and social distancing (basis: science not religion). But watch how flu deaths increase next winter. I’ll be queued up for flu jab that’s for sure as I place my “faith” in sound logic and evidence based outcomes.

My opinion based upon science: I have no respect for Liam’s decision, agree with some posters it is selfish (albeit likely I’ll-informed and not intentionally so). Margaret Atwell wrote (may not be word verbatim) “If judged by their effect, stupidity is the same as evil”. Rather apt.

As for proposed pandemic emergency legislation isn’t it great we live in a democracy where, whatever your political views are, you can read the proposed changes in detail, lobby your local MP and other MPs, and legally, passionately rally (now we are close to 90% vaxxed) if you disagree (noted that some wore a mask - bravo to those folk).

[comrade]

Re: Following our ex's...................

I’m not going to wade in and jump on this grenade but basically Sedat is right like usual.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Following our ex's...................

State and federal govts have had almost 2 years to get their act together and build up hospital capacity (as they all promised they would). They have all failed miserably, which is probably the least surprising thing about the last 18 months.

Maybe the heavily obese shouldn't have access to medical care, seeing as they disproportionately utilise a higher percentage of available hospital resources? Same with smokers and drinkers and drug addicts? I am being facetious of course, but it is a dangerous and very slippery slope segregating one section of the community from the rest of society. You don't need to look too far back in history to know this has utterly devastating and disastrous consequences.

You're not using segregation of African Americans or SA Apartheid as an example are you ? Not sure they're are comparable.

I too share some concern re privacy and what this opens up, but I have faith there's enough oversight to ensure we can reign it in.

RE Government bashing. I've worked in the Federal Goverment for over 20 years and my wife is currently developing the Rapid Antigen Testing policy for a state Gov dept and she is working 12 hour + days every day (inc. weekends).

I work closely with those involved in Covid work and they are all at the point of exhaustion.

Blanket generalisations (like constant Gov bashing) just come off as to me as poor arguments, maybe outlining a better system would be interesting to me. Politicians, yeah ok I get that but that's not the whole picture.

The biggest problem with Government (from experience) is the multitude of departments and the silos that exist between them.

It's like turning the Queen Mary to get things to happen, but I can tell you the people on the ground are working their arses off and believe very strongly in the service they provide to the public.

[Sedat]

Re: Following our ex's...................

It's not. One to combat a contagious disease causing a pandemic. The others are essentially social issues.

The contagious disease has had multiple vaccines available for several months that everybody who wants one has had access to and gotten. Why does anybody who has been jabbed even care about those who haven't? We are all protected. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

I'm not interested in vilifying those who are not jabbed because that is precisely what mediocre politicians (with help from the media) want society to do, to find a target other than themselves that people can direct their rage at when the inevitable house of cards on this pandemic falls over. Politicians have caused the destruction of society through their appalling and failed policy interventions that have been unprecedented in our history. They have failed on almost every metric to find a balanced solution to the problem that factors in all other unintended societal and health consequences They have successfully normalised the concept that our most basic of freedoms are now conditional - this is something I will never be supportive of, and I will never be drawn into the cynical narrative of blaming a random, ever-shrinking group for their own personal decisions when it is 100% the responsibility of our elected leaders.

When we are inevitably locked down yet again next winter, I will not be directing my rage at the likes of Liam Jones. It is rather sad and pathetic that anybody would to be honest.

[Sedat]

Re: Following our ex's...................

You're not using segregation of African Americans or SA Apartheid as an example are you ? Not sure they're are comparable.

I too share some concern re privacy and what this opens up, but I have faith there's enough oversight to ensure we can reign it in.

RE Government bashing. I've worked in the Federal Goverment for over 20 years and my wife is currently developing the Rapid Antigen Testing policy for a state Gov dept and she is working 12 hour + days every day (inc. weekends).

I work closely with those involved in Covid work and they are all at the point of exhaustion.

Blanket generalisations (like constant Gov bashing) just come off as to me as poor arguments, maybe outlining a better system would be interesting to me. Politicians, yeah ok I get that but that's not the whole picture.

The biggest problem with Government (from experience) is the multitude of departments and the silos that exist between them.

It's like turning the Queen Mary to get things to happen, but I can tell you the people on the ground are working their arses off and believe very strongly in the service they provide to the public.

I will never direct my anger at the people on the ground. They are amazing.

The bolded bit neatly encapsulates everything wrong with our ruling class, and this pandemic has opened up these problems for all of us to see - the ruling class hate that they have been exposed for their inefficiency, largesse, lack of leadership/accountability and basic competence, so they need to frame a narrative that some other random (tiny) group of people are to blame. Leadership comes from the very top, and our notional leaders without exception have failed us all miserably from the very start of this pandemic. The political system in Australia has proven to be flawed - and true to form instead of fixing what is broken, our leaders will use the fear and uncertainty they amplified to spread even more hate and division between ourselves. It is the oldest trick in the political playbook.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Following our ex's...................

Not everyone who doesn't get the jab is anti vaxx either some people just fall into a group which the scientists call "can't get organised" for whatever reason.

Had a great story relayed to me regarding some Fellas from up in the Mallee area. Our department sent a team up there to vax people and this included a couple of sheep shearers.

They were true Aussie rural types and just said something like ah mate it never came here and we are working all the bloody time so didn't get it.

Then happily rolled up their sleeves and thanked the team and got on with their work!

Classic.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Following our ex's...................

This thread’s become pretty strange.

Freedom? We’ve been free to do as we’re told for our entire life.

If your lifestyle doesn’t impact negatively on others I couldn’t care less what you do, fill your boots, it’s none of my business. Unvaccinated people are a potential transmission point for a deadly contagious virus so …you know, just do the easy right thing.

Last time I checked, I needed a licence to drive. I’m pretty happy knowing other drivers are also licensed. Makes the road a safer place no?

Specifically for Liam, imagine making that choice when Docherty is going through cancer treatment…far out, what a….

[hujsh]

Re: Following our ex's...................

The contagious disease has had multiple vaccines available for several months that everybody who wants one has had access to and gotten. Why does anybody who has been jabbed even care about those who haven't? We are all protected. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

I'm not interested in vilifying those who are not jabbed because that is precisely what mediocre politicians (with help from the media) want society to do, to find a target other than themselves that people can direct their rage at when the inevitable house of cards on this pandemic falls over. Politicians have caused the destruction of society through their appalling and failed policy interventions that have been unprecedented in our history. They have failed on almost every metric to find a balanced solution to the problem that factors in all other unintended societal and health consequences They have successfully normalised the concept that our most basic of freedoms are now conditional - this is something I will never be supportive of, and I will never be drawn into the cynical narrative of blaming a random, ever-shrinking group for their own personal decisions when it is 100% the responsibility of our elected leaders.

When we are inevitably locked down yet again next winter, I will not be directing my rage at the likes of Liam Jones. It is rather sad and pathetic that anybody would to be honest.

In a sense, I don't. I don't care if you want to put your own livelihood and health at risk. I will probably think less highly of you for it (general you not you specifically) but I doubt anyone who hasn't got vaccinated actually cares what I think of them.

I do care that it continues to allow the virus to spread more easily, for cases to get higher, for hospitals and doctors and testers and tracers to get more strained and for more mutations to potentially develop. Surely that's obvious though so I'm not even sure why you asked.

Though TBH it seems like it hasn't really been an issue here the same way it has in the US so if anything I'm more worried about people there and other countries with lower rates not getting vaccinated than people here.

Jones I don't really care about either way but the 'respect' people are giving him confounds me.

[Bornadog]

Re: Following our ex's...................

When we are inevitably locked down yet again next winter, I will not be directing my rage at the likes of Liam Jones. It is rather sad and pathetic that anybody would to be honest.

We all have our opinions but to call others (on this forum) with their opinion sad and pathetic is not on.

[Sedat]

Re: Following our ex's...................

We all have our opinions but to call others (on this forum) with their opinion sad and pathetic is not on.

It's perfectly OK for anybody to direct their rage at Liam Jones/unjabbed people if they want to, and it's perfectly OK for other people to label that general mindset (not any specific individuals) as sad and pathetic, particularly in light of how small that population is (and getting smaller by the day). Neither position is right or wrong.

[Sedat]

Re: Following our ex's...................

In a sense, I don't. I don't care if you want to put your own livelihood and health at risk. I will probably think less highly of you for it (general you not you specifically) but I doubt anyone who hasn't got vaccinated actually cares what I think of them.

I do care that it continues to allow the virus to spread more easily, for cases to get higher, for hospitals and doctors and testers and tracers to get more strained and for more mutations to potentially develop. Surely that's obvious though so I'm not even sure why you asked.

Though TBH it seems like it hasn't really been an issue here the same way it has in the US so if anything I'm more worried about people there and other countries with lower rates not getting vaccinated than people here.

Jones I don't really care about either way but the 'respect' people are giving him confounds me.

Appreciate the post hujsh.

There is a point where the metrics in the bolded bit become a question of maths and data and not a question of science and health. For some countries, that point was around 55% double-jabbed (eg:England) and for others that point was a much higher percentage. There's no right and wrong here - it is way above my pay grade to speculate what this point should be. The problem I have is that State and Federal jurisdictions all met on multiple occasions and set what this point should be, then kept changing the metrics, and then did not follow through with removing all restrictions they said they would, even once those revised thresholds (let alone the ones they initially set) were met and exceeded. This is why I don't believe what our leaders say - I am judging them on their actions and behaviours, and they have constantly changed their position without blinking (and always to benefit their own power base) at the expense of the people they are elected to serve. And they won't stop. Perhaps if they spent less time having meandering daily press conferences and more time doing their job and investing in their health infrastructure in the last 18 months, we wouldn't be in a position that we need to reach such incredibly high vax rates to ensure our health systems are robust enough to manage.

Doomsday fearporn data analysts have been to blame as much for misinformation as the interwebz crowd, probably moreso because they have a much bigger platform to spread their wildly inaccurate analysis. And this analysis has been used by some leaders to make the crucial health decisions that have lead to so many disastrous outcomes. When it comes to data, junk in junk out.

[EasternWest]

Re: Following our ex's...................

Doomsday fearporn data analysts.

Great name for an avant garde electro band

[Grantysghost]

Re: Following our ex's...................

I love reading your posts @sedat. I don't always agree but man you have a great handle on the English language and really articulate your ideas well.

Some people are so black and white in their thinking: you're wrong, I'm right for e.g. Complex scenarios have multiple moving parts and require ideas and discussion from a plethora of sources.

It's the way adults work, then we all come to a consensus and the boss does what he wants anyway !

[Sedat]

Re: Following our ex's...................

I love reading your posts @sedat. I don't always agree but man you have a great handle on the English language and really articulate your ideas well.

Some people are so black and white in their thinking: you're wrong, I'm right for e.g. Complex scenarios having multiple moving parts and require ideas and discussion from a plethora of sources.

It's the way adults work, then we all come to a consensus and the boss does what he wants anyway !

Life is full of many different shades of grey, my friend.