Bevo's contract

[Bulldog Joe]

Whilst all of that is super flattering and I'm happy to read it - I get stuff wrong all the time. Believe what your own eyes see - don't take my interpretation of stuff...the cues I'm watching for might not be real or relevant which means the whole thing is wrong.

If you read something like 'Footballistics' or 'Time and Space' those books will give you a much better idea of how everything works than I ever could. Time and Space is a bit old now but it still provides a great run down of how game-styles and team structures have evolved over time...

You have so much insight that most of us could never pick up.

Really appreciate what you provide for all of us.

[Axe Man]

where did you get your stats from? Are they averages?

I have as totals - Stoppage Clearance- 2nd to Lions, Centre CL as 7th, Overall Cleances 4th and CP as 8th but these are based on total games with us having 24 and Lions etc 25, 26, 27 games. Agree we are down on a few stats.

HTA, I only have Tim 's stats not Team totals. Tim came in at 10th, but with fewer games due to a short finals series - 6 behind the Big O

Averages are a better measure than totals with teams playing a different number of games, although the results are similar:

Contested Possessions 4th
Centre Clearances 7th
Stoppage Clearances 3rd
Total Clearances 2nd

The only one we were a bit down in was centre clearances but there isn't a great correlation in that stat and ladder position. Essendon, North and Collingwood all did better than us whilst the likes of Brisbane, Sydney and Hawthorn all averaged fewer than we did.

[Bornadog]

Averages are a better measure than totals with teams playing a different number of games, although the results are similar:

Contested Possessions 4th
Centre Clearances 7th
Stoppage Clearances 3rd
Total Clearances 2nd

The only one we were a bit down in was centre clearances but there isn't a great correlation in that stat and ladder position. Essendon, North and Collingwood all did better than us whilst the likes of Brisbane, Sydney and Hawthorn all averaged fewer than we did.

You and I agree. I am not sure where Critter got his stats from as they are differfent.

[angelopetraglia]

Not sure what approach is right in bad GF defeats.

Bevo - move fowward, not backwards

"We've taken a pretty simplistic approach ... there's lots to be gained on how we got there (to the grand final) and how we might be able to build on that, more than why it fell apart late in the game.

"If you spend too much time processing what's happened in the past, you're only going to do yourself (harm).

"For my health and wellbeing and benefit, all I've done is pushed ahead.

"I reviewed the game, I watched it once, I pulled everything out of it that I usually do and left it there. It hasn't been shown and hasn't been looked at since.

"I'd rather look at the possibilities are now into the future."

Source: https://www.afl.com.au/news/716392/w...and-final-loss

Cox - seven hour review, including one hour on the first minute

New Swans coach Dean Cox has revealed the club delivered some “home truths” during an intense seven-and-a-half hour probe into what went wrong in the 2024 Grand Final.

Instead of brushing over the performance as a bad day, Cox said the club wanted to go through the game with a fine tooth comb on day one of pre-season to address it then and there.

“We just had to watch it,” Cox began on SEN radio. “We pushed the (pre-season) program back a day.”

“For us it was about making sure we reviewed it. We sat down and spoke about what happened, we identified it as a playing group and a coaching group. What went wrong, what we wanted to focus on going forward and then everything started rolling from there.

“It was a tough day for the players reflect on — and certainly watch — the performance that they put in. From there it was about trying to learn from every experience you possibly have.

“We had a really harsh one on Grand Final day and we had to learn from it.”

The day turned particularly sour for Sydney in the second quarter, where Brisbane stacked on seven-straight goals to lead by 46 points at half-time.

But Cox said there was a particularly big focus on the first minute of the game, which took over an hour to examine.

Source: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tea...ee6d15a4d6e07f

[Rusty12]

Averages are a better measure than totals with teams playing a different number of games, although the results are similar:

Contested Possessions 4th
Centre Clearances 7th
Stoppage Clearances 3rd
Total Clearances 2nd

The only one we were a bit down in was centre clearances but there isn't a great correlation in that stat and ladder position. Essendon, North and Collingwood all did better than us whilst the likes of Brisbane, Sydney and Hawthorn all averaged fewer than we did.

Analytics and stats can be dangerous if not properly understood on how to interpret them, or if they are incomplete/poor source.
When using the types of stats above, they are useless, unless looking at differentials, instead of totals and averages and then expanding that to an outcome.
Did you score from the clearance or retain possession post clearance ect, ect.

[Axe Man]

Analytics and stats can be dangerous if not properly understood on how to interpret them, or if they are incomplete/poor source.
When using the types of stats above, they are useless, unless looking at differentials, instead of totals and averages and then expanding that to an outcome.
Did you score from the clearance or retain possession post clearance ect, ect.

Agree, stats can paint just about any picture you like depending how they are used.

However myself and BAD were simply sharing the official AFL stats for 2024 in response to Critter's numbers that appear to be incorrect. Critter's contention was that the midfield was poor last year based on a few ranking stats (which appear wrong) without much context so perhaps your response would have been better aimed at them?

[jeemak]

Not sure what approach is right in bad GF defeats.

Bevo - move fowward, not backwards

"We've taken a pretty simplistic approach ... there's lots to be gained on how we got there (to the grand final) and how we might be able to build on that, more than why it fell apart late in the game.

"If you spend too much time processing what's happened in the past, you're only going to do yourself (harm).

"For my health and wellbeing and benefit, all I've done is pushed ahead.

"I reviewed the game, I watched it once, I pulled everything out of it that I usually do and left it there. It hasn't been shown and hasn't been looked at since.

"I'd rather look at the possibilities are now into the future."

Source: https://www.afl.com.au/news/716392/w...and-final-loss

Cox - seven hour review, including one hour on the first minute

New Swans coach Dean Cox has revealed the club delivered some “home truths” during an intense seven-and-a-half hour probe into what went wrong in the 2024 Grand Final.

Instead of brushing over the performance as a bad day, Cox said the club wanted to go through the game with a fine tooth comb on day one of pre-season to address it then and there.

“We just had to watch it,” Cox began on SEN radio. “We pushed the (pre-season) program back a day.”

“For us it was about making sure we reviewed it. We sat down and spoke about what happened, we identified it as a playing group and a coaching group. What went wrong, what we wanted to focus on going forward and then everything started rolling from there.

“It was a tough day for the players reflect on — and certainly watch — the performance that they put in. From there it was about trying to learn from every experience you possibly have.

“We had a really harsh one on Grand Final day and we had to learn from it.”

The day turned particularly sour for Sydney in the second quarter, where Brisbane stacked on seven-straight goals to lead by 46 points at half-time.

But Cox said there was a particularly big focus on the first minute of the game, which took over an hour to examine.

Source: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tea...ee6d15a4d6e07f

I think it comes down to philosophies more than anything else. If Sydney come back and win the GF this year Cox will be considered a genius, lauded for his day of truth etc. but it won't even rate a mention if they tank.

There's so many moving parts that contribute to success or failure, I think things like this are overblown.

[Rusty12]

Agree, stats can paint just about any picture you like depending how they are used.

However myself and BAD were simply sharing the official AFL stats for 2024 in response to Critter's numbers that appear to be incorrect. Critter's contention was that the midfield was poor last year based on a few ranking stats (which appear wrong) without much context so perhaps your response would have been better aimed at them?

Sorry if it came across like that. Wasn't aimed at anyone, just quoted for the context, as it is the Bevo contract feed, so it diddnt look out of place.

[Rusty12]

I think it comes down to philosophies more than anything else. If Sydney come back and win the GF this year Cox will be considered a genius, lauded for his day of truth etc. but it won't even rate a mention if they tank.

There's so many moving parts that contribute to success or failure, I think things like this are overblown.

Geez, it would have been tuff watching for chad warner more than most.

[Vred]

Not sure what approach is right in bad GF defeats.

Bevo - move fowward, not backwards

"We've taken a pretty simplistic approach ... there's lots to be gained on how we got there (to the grand final) and how we might be able to build on that, more than why it fell apart late in the game.

"If you spend too much time processing what's happened in the past, you're only going to do yourself (harm).

"For my health and wellbeing and benefit, all I've done is pushed ahead.

"I reviewed the game, I watched it once, I pulled everything out of it that I usually do and left it there. It hasn't been shown and hasn't been looked at since.

"I'd rather look at the possibilities are now into the future."

Source: https://www.afl.com.au/news/716392/w...and-final-loss

Cox - seven hour review, including one hour on the first minute

New Swans coach Dean Cox has revealed the club delivered some “home truths” during an intense seven-and-a-half hour probe into what went wrong in the 2024 Grand Final.

Instead of brushing over the performance as a bad day, Cox said the club wanted to go through the game with a fine tooth comb on day one of pre-season to address it then and there.

“We just had to watch it,” Cox began on SEN radio. “We pushed the (pre-season) program back a day.”

“For us it was about making sure we reviewed it. We sat down and spoke about what happened, we identified it as a playing group and a coaching group. What went wrong, what we wanted to focus on going forward and then everything started rolling from there.

“It was a tough day for the players reflect on — and certainly watch — the performance that they put in. From there it was about trying to learn from every experience you possibly have.

“We had a really harsh one on Grand Final day and we had to learn from it.”

The day turned particularly sour for Sydney in the second quarter, where Brisbane stacked on seven-straight goals to lead by 46 points at half-time.

But Cox said there was a particularly big focus on the first minute of the game, which took over an hour to examine.

Source: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tea...ee6d15a4d6e07f

Personally, I am all for the fine-tooth comb reviewing as a group. I'm all for Cox's way of doing things here vs how we handled 2021.
It's taken us years to bounce back from 21 and honestly I don't even think we're fully ''bounced back'' - Not sure how we had the season we did in 21 only to serve up what we have since without minimal personal changes.

[FrediKanoute]

5 elimination final defeats in 10 years is hard to take.

What about 7 preliminary finals losses......granted over a much longer period of time and with arguably better teams.

[Uninformed]

Whilst all of that is super flattering and I'm happy to read it - I get stuff wrong all the time. Believe what your own eyes see - don't take my interpretation of stuff...the cues I'm watching for might not be real or relevant which means the whole thing is wrong.

If you read something like 'Footballistics' or 'Time and Space' those books will give you a much better idea of how everything works than I ever could. Time and Space is a bit old now but it still provides a great run down of how game-styles and team structures have evolved over time...

It is really interesting to hear your take on coaching and tactics. I have often imaged that a coach sees something totally different to what I see when I watch a game. I would certainly be mostly oblivious to the observations that you made. My observations are more at the level of 'he did well in that contest, that was a great mark, beautiful kick, great decision (and in the case of the great Fletcher Roberts - that was a sublime blind turn!) etc.

I don't see 'team dynamic' like I imagine a coach, especially an AFL super-coach like Bevo does. That's why I never try to second guess team selections.

I would be interested in your take on what our coaches would be discussing now, at this stage of preparation. What would the hot issues be for them today do you think?

[Critter]

where did you get your stats from? Are they averages?

I have as totals - Stoppage Clearance- 2nd to Lions, Centre CL as 7th, Overall Cleances 4th and CP as 8th but these are based on total games with us having 24 and Lions etc 25, 26, 27 games. Agree we are down on a few stats.

HTA, I only have Tim 's stats not Team totals. Tim came in at 10th, but with fewer games due to a short finals series - 6 behind the Big O

Sorry for the delay in responding to your query - I've been away. I got the stats from a Reddit post, which seemed reasonable:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/1cfuds8/statistically_ranking_every_teams_midfield_this/

His methodology seemed reasonable but no doubt the more statistically literate amongst us will be better able to judge that and school me if necessary.

One thing I have picked up in going back to this post is that is was created 10 months ago. Which means the data he's using would relate to early 2024, not the whole year. That does change things. Sorry, my bad.

[Bornadog]

Sorry for the delay in responding to your query - I've been away. I got the stats from a Reddit post, which seemed reasonable:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/1cfuds8/statistically_ranking_every_teams_midfield_this/

His methodology seemed reasonable but no doubt the more statistically literate amongst us will be better able to judge that and school me if necessary.

One thing I have picked up in going back to this post is that is was created 10 months ago. Which means the data he's using would relate to early 2024, not the whole year. That does change things. Sorry, my bad.

They are incorrect. Check footywire.com or the AFL stats page or

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html?comp=afl&season=2024

[Axe Man]

They are incorrect. Check footywire.com or the AFL stats page or

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_st...fl&season=2024

Not sure they are incorrect since they are differential stats which are different to the simple rankings we looked at. However as Critter pointed out the post is 10 months old so clearly not complete figures for 2024.