Tim English and the ruck dilemma

[doggies ftw]

I think this deserves its own thread as it’s constantly spoken about in every other thread (mostly by me )

What do we do about the ruck? How do we fix this? We currently have one of the worst ruckmen in the league and also one of the highest paid - for 5 more years.

It’s seriously a problem, we get so badly bullied in the ruck that we’re forced to waste Darcy there when he could be dominating games forward of the ball. I’m so sick and tired of people excusing his efforts as “just a poor game” when it’s every second week we’re having this conversation. I’m at a loss as to how we fix this issue considering the wall that our list management has backed us into

You can’t possibly tell me we’d be worse having Crossley play 50% game time than the extra runner in Dolan playing 60% game time and 5 touches & 7 pressure acts (and nothing against Dolan in his first game, he’s a real talent) the fact that 50% game time of Crossley would be such an improvement on our game is the real issue in how diabolically poorly we’ve mismanaged the ruck.

So what do we do? We can’t move Darcy or Lobb, we don’t have a back up other than a 19yo Smith. What’s the plan here? Because we can’t constantly put our midfield on the back foot from the complete and utter liability who cannot contest a ruck contest. Just watch how easy it was for Norths mids with first use and the ball on a platter all night, and even still Xerri had more marks and disposals around the ground - supposedly the one reason we’re paying English so much money?

He needs to be dropped, but there’s no other options so we’ve given this guy a completely free run at the job with zero accountability or even reason to perform. Big money, the rest of his career already locked in and paid for, and no risk to his spot in the side? Why would he bother

[chef]

Don't think it'll be long before Darcy is our number ruck and we'll be a better team for it.

This will also allow English to become a forward/2nd ruck which suits him much better.

[SonofScray]

Tim has a lot of work to do to win back my trust. Which I am sure is something that’ll keep him up at night.

He’s a 10 foot tall Shaun Higgins. Skill wise and apparent ceiling remains appealing, but the actual product is soft and unsatisfying.

[jeemak]

Xerri's a good ruckman and Tim didn't bring what's required around the ground. He needs to atone for it, a couple of his efforts in aerial contests were really poor in particular.

He was excellent in his All Australian year, he needs to get back to that level or as close to it after a year of poor preparation and a less than satisfactory start to 2025.

My advice is to not stress about it too much because there's nothing you can do about it.

[Aidan7557]

The big concern for me is his around the ground stuff. It's what made him an AA ruck. Low to mid 20's disposals, intercept marks, a goal every now and then. That seems to have been missing in the past 12 months. Didn't think he was horrific last night but Xerri beat him. He will never be a great power ruck but if he can't make it up around the ground then that scares me a little.

[doggies ftw]

Don't think it'll be long before Darcy is our number ruck and we'll be a better team for it.

This will also allow English to become a forward/2nd ruck which suits him much better.

Don’t disagree here but that would be a shame because Darcy could be so dominant for us forward of the ball. Would be a big mistake from a list manangent point of view. But I think you’re right the sooner it happens the better we’ll be as a team.

[Mofra]

I'd rather we keep Darcy forward and grab a no 2 from somewhere for depth and to push for selection.

Given Meek is now the clear number 1 at the Hawks, Ned Reeves? 210cm and just coming into his peak.

[Boots]

I was at the game last night and I think I'm starting to see what Bevo sees in English. I don't think he wants English winning hitouts, I think he wants an extra mid with ground-level second-effort chops. English seems to do that pretty well. Our whole midfield plan was based on bringing the ball to ground and creating a running scrap where our better ground ball skills would pay off, then transition out through quick handball chains.

You can argue that a better tap ruckman would relieve the pressure on the mids to rove oppo taps, but that's not what he's being asked to do. The guy laid as many tackles as Vandermeer, Harmes and Freijah (and more than Richards!), and still managed to transition forward and back quickly as needed, with one scoring shot (sadly a behind).

I think I'm at the point now where I don't care about hitouts. I acknowledge I might change my tune in the next two weeks, footy feelings are changeable.

[lemmon]

I'd rather we keep Darcy forward and grab a no 2 from somewhere for depth and to push for selection.

Given Meek is now the clear number 1 at the Hawks, Ned Reeves? 210cm and just coming into his peak.

Absolutely agree. Darcy is a generational talent as a forward - you don't plow a field with a Ferrari.

Unfortunately I think the only way to solve the ruck dilemma is for English to play better footy.

We've clearly made a decision as a list management / match committee that we're okay with sacrificing the ruck contest if it means we're getting the things Tim is good at - aerial ability around the ground and being able to link up in transitional chains.

Even when Bevo's had the option of playing other rucks, he hasn't done it - I think if you can't run and can't impact aerially, Bevo isn't really interested in having you as a ruckman.

That's fine except we haven't been getting the good stuff for more than 12-months now. That has to change and Tim's the only one who can make it happen.

I think Xerri is the best ruck in the competition, but last night English, Williams, Naughton, Lobb needed to look at each other and step up as the big dogs in that side. Some did, some didn't.

No excuses next week, English is a straight-up better footballer than Darcy Cameron. He needs to have a big impact and do the things he's good at.

[jeemak]

Good post, agree with all of it outside of not having Darcy play more minutes in the ruck. I see a future not too far away (next year maybe) where the minutes between English and Darcy are fairly evenly spread between ruck and forward and we try and get the best of both worlds - particularly if JUH gets his act together and stays with us.

[Bornadog]

I was at the game last night and I think I'm starting to see what Bevo sees in English. I don't think he wants English winning hitouts, I think he wants an extra mid with ground-level second-effort chops. English seems to do that pretty well. Our whole midfield plan was based on bringing the ball to ground and creating a running scrap where our better ground ball skills would pay off, then transition out through quick handball chains.

You can argue that a better tap ruckman would relieve the pressure on the mids to rove oppo taps, but that's not what he's being asked to do. The guy laid as many tackles as Vandermeer, Harmes and Freijah (and more than Richards!), and still managed to transition forward and back quickly as needed, with one scoring shot (sadly a behind).

I think I'm at the point now where I don't care about hitouts. I acknowledge I might change my tune in the next two weeks, footy feelings are changeable.

Spot on Boots. I have been saying this forever: Hitouts mean stuff all if you don't give your team the advantage. Xeri is a good tap ruck and also good at HTA. His 51 HO didn't win the game.

English just needs to get back to improving his around the ground work. As far as being bullied, I thought English held his own in those stakes last night, he was more aggressive than I have ever seen him. A couple of times Xeri was just too strong.

[chef]

Don’t disagree here but that would be a shame because Darcy could be so dominant for us forward of the ball. Would be a big mistake from a list manangent point of view. But I think you’re right the sooner it happens the better we’ll be as a team.

I dunno, I think Darcy is going to be generational wherever we play him. He's going to be just a dangerous being able to roam the whole field.

Plus 3 key forwards isn't a luxury that anyone is successful with so Naughton and Marra/Croft should be fine with English floating around too.

[lemmon]

I dunno, I think Darcy is going to be generational wherever we play him. He's going to be just a dangerous being able to roam the whole field.

Plus 3 key forwards isn't a luxury that anyone is successful with so Naughton and Marra/Croft should be fine with English floating around too.

I know this isn't the point of your post, but I'm pretty interested in Croft spending some time rucking so we can find out what he looks like there.

He's aggressive, he's a terrific athlete, he's happy to get amongst it at ground level - they're good ingredients for a young ruck.

[doggies ftw]

I know this isn't the point of your post, but I'm pretty interested in Croft spending some time rucking so we can find out what he looks like there.

He's aggressive, he's a terrific athlete, he's happy to get amongst it at ground level - they're good ingredients for a young ruck.

Agree with this too - he’s done a bit in juniors too. As skinny as he is I think he’s going to end up pretty bulky once he fills out, if his old man is anything to go by.

Could be a really interesting prospect as a 200cm lightning quick utility and if he can ruck that’ll help us keep Darcy forward.

[G-Mo77]

Don't think it'll be long before Darcy is our number ruck and we'll be a better team for it.

This will also allow English to become a forward/2nd ruck which suits him much better.

I'd have no issue with them splitting time or a 60/40 split. Tim can be quite dangerous up forward. Darcy is just impressive wherever he is on the ground. He's such a special talent! I'm going to get exhausted watching Tim, I'd have rathered we traded him.

[azabob]

Spot on Boots. I have been saying this forever: Hitouts mean stuff all if you don't give your team the advantage. Xeri is a good tap ruck and also good at HTA. His 51 HO didn't win the game.

English just needs to get back to improving his around the ground work. As far as being bullied, I thought English held his own in those stakes last night, he was more aggressive than I have ever seen him. A couple of times Xeri was just too strong.

Honestly I wasn’t too upset with English v Xerri last night.

As you say if English isn’t influencing the ruck contests he needs be winning the around the ground work.

I am disappointed in English goal kicking at the back end of last season and again last night. It was a strength, now not so much.

One last point, is English that highly paid as a ruck? I’d say his mid table compared to other rucks.